Comments on: Evangelical Manifesto http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/ with Mart De Haan and Friends Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:53:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: eltonteng http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-958 eltonteng Tue, 13 May 2008 03:32:39 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-958 There many excellent points within the EM. It can also be easily misquoted. I would recommend everyone who wants to learn about it to go to the website and look at the press coverage. There many excellent points within the EM. It can also be easily misquoted. I would recommend everyone who wants to learn about it to go to the website and look at the press coverage.

]]> By: dep7547 http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-935 dep7547 Sun, 11 May 2008 02:21:53 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-935 That was very well put, daisymarygoldr! In fact, it has been a sad evolution of misinterpreting the word of God that has led me to refer to modern interpretations as the Gospel according to Industrialism and the subsequent Letters to the Capitalists. Somewhere in our history,the wealth of individual congregants became a symbol of piety and that has escalated to a society which serves both God and mammon. What happened to the poor widow who cast in two mites? Today's "Our Daily Bread" selection made a wonderful point about a very committed pastor who was discouraged at the slow growth rate of his church while a megachurch was growing close by. I, too, have struggled with this issue in the past, but came to realize that when a church gets to large, it goes from a sense of family to a sense of community. From there, it is only a matter of time until individualism causes divisions in the church. As I began to say in my earlier post, when God called upon Isaac, he revealed himself as "the god of your father, Abraham." While God may have called Isaac in remberence of his covenant with Abraham, I am certain that Isaac must have had some redeeming qualities that he learned from Abraham's fellowship with the Lord. In other words, God did not want Isaac to follow him just because Abraham did, but because Isaac also learned to delight in fellowship with God. It is precisely this kind of relationship with God that is hard to find in a megachurch. That was very well put, daisymarygoldr! In fact, it has been a sad evolution of misinterpreting the word of God that has led me to refer to modern interpretations as the Gospel according to Industrialism and the subsequent Letters to the Capitalists. Somewhere in our history,the wealth of individual congregants became a symbol of piety and that has escalated to a society which serves both God and mammon. What happened to the poor widow who cast in two mites?

Today’s “Our Daily Bread” selection made a wonderful point about a very committed pastor who was discouraged at the slow growth rate of his church while a megachurch was growing close by. I, too, have struggled with this issue in the past, but came to realize that when a church gets to large, it goes from a sense of family to a sense of community. From there, it is only a matter of time until individualism causes divisions in the church.

As I began to say in my earlier post, when God called upon Isaac, he revealed himself as “the god of your father, Abraham.” While God may have called Isaac in remberence of his covenant with Abraham, I am certain that Isaac must have had some redeeming qualities that he learned from Abraham’s fellowship with the Lord. In other words, God did not want Isaac to follow him just because Abraham did, but because Isaac also learned to delight in fellowship with God. It is precisely this kind of relationship with God that is hard to find in a megachurch.

]]> By: daisymarygoldr http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-934 daisymarygoldr Sat, 10 May 2008 19:30:48 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-934 This whole ‘Evangelical Manifesto’ is too complex for my simple brain to comprehend and theology is certainly not my cup of tea on a sluggish Saturday morn! All I can think of is that Jesus did not align himself with any political, social or religious group. Therefore, having responded to His call to do the work of an evangelist requires rising above politics and religion to stay focused on the ‘commission’. Even as we continue to ‘be in this world and not of the world’ we are actively engaged in rallying for the common good without having to align with any movement, ideology, philosophy or humanistic thinking (evangelicalism included) that leans towards commercial, diluted, and feel-good gospels of health, wealth and religious happy talk. These things can easily distract us from the actual message- to love God and to love our neighbor! This whole ‘Evangelical Manifesto’ is too complex for my simple brain to comprehend and theology is certainly not my cup of tea on a sluggish Saturday morn! All I can think of is that Jesus did not align himself with any political, social or religious group. Therefore, having responded to His call to do the work of an evangelist requires rising above politics and religion to stay focused on the ‘commission’. Even as we continue to ‘be in this world and not of the world’ we are actively engaged in rallying for the common good without having to align with any movement, ideology, philosophy or humanistic thinking (evangelicalism included) that leans towards commercial, diluted, and feel-good gospels of health, wealth and religious happy talk. These things can easily distract us from the actual message- to love God and to love our neighbor!

]]> By: Gale L. Jarvis http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-932 Gale L. Jarvis Sat, 10 May 2008 17:51:24 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-932 Good Afternoon everyone, Mart, Once again i must try to be honest, and say i do not spend a lot of my time with the different debates they have had, what little i have heard, i agree with James Dobson, there has not been any talk of the family values being destroyed, and what they are going to do about it. I believe who ever is our next president it will be who God puts in that position, and desires for me to pray for him, or possibly her. I know morallity cannot be legislated, but i believe there are too many in leadership roles that have no moral values, and using religious thoughts and statements that someone has told them they need to say in order to get the evengelical vote is very foolish when their lives tell it differently. Good Afternoon everyone, Mart, Once again i must try to be honest, and say i do not spend a lot of my time with the different debates they have had, what little i have heard, i agree with James Dobson, there has not been any talk of the family values being destroyed, and what they are going to do about it.
I believe who ever is our next president it will be who God puts in that position, and desires for me to pray for him, or possibly her.
I know morallity cannot be legislated, but i believe there are too many in leadership roles that have no moral values, and using religious thoughts and statements that someone has told them they need to say in order to get the evengelical vote is very foolish when their lives tell it differently.

]]> By: poohpity http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-931 poohpity Sat, 10 May 2008 17:35:36 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-931 Hey Mart, I read the entire document WOW. That is what the Bible teaches and what I believe but am unable to put to words. When we are followers of Christ and read His Word, then we hold to a higher calling. That then changes how we live our lives. Gee understanding of my other posts. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Hey Mart,
I read the entire document WOW. That is what the Bible teaches and what I believe but am unable to put to words. When we are followers of Christ and read His Word, then we hold to a higher calling. That then changes how we live our lives. Gee understanding of my other posts. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

]]> By: desert rose http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-930 desert rose Sat, 10 May 2008 14:42:26 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-930 In regard to the first pargraph, one cannot separate the spiritual from the secular. We cannot compartmentalize our faith. In regards to the politics I agree that we are called to a higher allegience and not the dogma of what particular party is popular. In regard to the first pargraph, one cannot separate the spiritual from the secular. We cannot compartmentalize our faith. In regards to the politics I agree that we are called to a higher allegience and not the dogma of what particular party is popular.

]]> By: abalderama http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-929 abalderama Sat, 10 May 2008 13:23:00 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-929 Although I did not read the entire document, these individuals definitely see our Father as I see him. The scripture that kept returning to me was - judge not lest you be judged. Meaning that why would I desire to comment on their document unless it was a direct assault on our Father. And even then, it would take me back to judge not lest you be judge. Although I did not read the entire document, these individuals definitely see our Father as I see him. The scripture that kept returning to me was – judge not lest you be judged. Meaning that why would I desire to comment on their document unless it was a direct assault on our Father. And even then, it would take me back to judge not lest you be judge.

]]> By: tallmark http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-928 tallmark Sat, 10 May 2008 12:52:11 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-928 Keep up the good work. I may not have a comment but I'll be thinking about what you wrote and how it relates to me and the people around me. Thanks Keep up the good work. I may not have a comment but I’ll be thinking about what you wrote and how it relates to me and the people around me. Thanks

]]> By: dep7547 http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/10/evangelical-manifesto/#comment-927 dep7547 Sat, 10 May 2008 12:28:26 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=148#comment-927 Wow! I really want to think this one over for a while; however, my initial thought is that having a personal relationship with the lord should mean that my faith is privatized. I am pleased that they have acknowledged the need to get away from the political process though. At this juncture, I cannot even see a point of compromise--one must either be a free-thinking contributor or a mindless drone. I do not believe that God wants me in a church just because someone says I should. I believe that God wants me there because I desire to be closer to him. Wow! I really want to think this one over for a while; however, my initial thought is that having a personal relationship with the lord should mean that my faith is privatized. I am pleased that they have acknowledged the need to get away from the political process though. At this juncture, I cannot even see a point of compromise–one must either be a free-thinking contributor or a mindless drone. I do not believe that God wants me in a church just because someone says I should. I believe that God wants me there because I desire to be closer to him.

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