Comments on: A Friend's Struggle For Assurance http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/ with Mart De Haan and Friends Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:14:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: paul bishop http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1418 paul bishop Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:34:11 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1418 God in His mercy, doesn't give us what we do deserve, God in His grace, gives us what we don't deserve. God in His mercy, doesn’t give us what we do deserve,

God in His grace, gives us what we don’t deserve.

]]> By: daisymarygoldr http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1151 daisymarygoldr Sat, 24 May 2008 15:55:16 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1151 Cerenity, you are so sweet. It is refreshing to see such immense faith during these present times of “see and believe”! Ted M. Gossard, though we perceive things differently we all belong to the same “camp” or “fold” or “body” of Christ. If Christians ‘turn away’ or ‘drift away’ from God they will forfeit their privilege of fellowship (i.e. to enjoy as Mart likes to interpret “inherit”) but not their relationship with their Heavenly Father. I can get mad at my earthly father and not speak to him (enjoy his fellowship) for days but nothing will forfeit my right to be called his daughter. In Hebrews, Paul is warning us not to underestimate the finished work of Christ on the Cross by living an unrepentant sinner’s lifestyle thereby subjecting Christ to open ridicule. Can a Christian deny God and still continue to be His child? Yes, Peter denied Him thrice! Can a follower of Christ not truly be a Christian? Yes, Judas was very much one among the chosen 12 but really was not of them (1 John 2:19). A true Christian will not live a continually sinful lifestyle (1 John 3:6) but will humbly repent, confess and resume “enjoying” the secure salvation of the grace of God. Elaa, God’s abundant Grace is greater than all our sins and once inside the ‘ark of Christ’, we are sealed and secured for eternity- there is no coming out and going in. Praying for you and your sis… Cerenity, you are so sweet. It is refreshing to see such immense faith during these present times of “see and believe”!

Ted M. Gossard, though we perceive things differently we all belong to the same “camp” or “fold” or “body” of Christ. If Christians ‘turn away’ or ‘drift away’ from God they will forfeit their privilege of fellowship (i.e. to enjoy as Mart likes to interpret “inherit”) but not their relationship with their Heavenly Father. I can get mad at my earthly father and not speak to him (enjoy his fellowship) for days but nothing will forfeit my right to be called his daughter. In Hebrews, Paul is warning us not to underestimate the finished work of Christ on the Cross by living an unrepentant sinner’s lifestyle thereby subjecting Christ to open ridicule. Can a Christian deny God and still continue to be His child? Yes, Peter denied Him thrice! Can a follower of Christ not truly be a Christian? Yes, Judas was very much one among the chosen 12 but really was not of them (1 John 2:19). A true Christian will not live a continually sinful lifestyle (1 John 3:6) but will humbly repent, confess and resume “enjoying” the secure salvation of the grace of God.

Elaa, God’s abundant Grace is greater than all our sins and once inside the ‘ark of Christ’, we are sealed and secured for eternity- there is no coming out and going in. Praying for you and your sis…

]]> By: sjd http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1142 sjd Sat, 24 May 2008 11:10:43 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1142 Romans 12:1 (NIV) 1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship. In view of all that God has done for me(everything), the only right response is, "Go ahead, keep doing it through me. This is your body, any attempts that I make myself, in my own power are worthless. Thank you for not only dying for me, but also for being my life! I no longer live, you live through me! Romans 12:1 (NIV)
1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God–this is your spiritual act of worship.

In view of all that God has done for me(everything), the only right response is, “Go ahead, keep doing it through me. This is your body, any attempts that I make myself, in my own power are worthless. Thank you for not only dying for me, but also for being my life! I no longer live, you live through me!

]]> By: Ted M. Gossard http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1141 Ted M. Gossard Sat, 24 May 2008 05:45:45 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1141 Helpful testimony. His testimony reminded me of some folks I knew as a young Christian. I was raised in a tradition that believes in "conditional security" though not long after I became a Christian as a teenager I became convinced of "eternal security." Now I'm more in the "conditional security" belief again. Though I don't like either phrase. I've seen too many cases of "once saved always saved" meaning one accepts Christ and then go out and sin left and right but think they're eternally secure. Well, only God knows their heart and what's going on. As you say, and I wonder about that interpretation of "inherit the kingdom of God", they at least are not enjoying their salvation. It's all grace, and I believe God works in his children so we persevere, but it's all of grace. I don't get worried when I inevitably sin or struggle with sin. Though I should worry if I don't care anymore and no longer bother with confession of sin, and repentance. The grace of God is at work to help us in that way. I see from the Scripture the idea that a Christian, yes a Christian can apostasize, turn their back on God and no longer care. Something of what Hebrews talks about when one despises the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified and does despite to the Spirit of grace, and crucifies the Son of God all over again. If this interpretation is true, I also think it's not easy to get there. I know this sounds like foreign language to you in the other camp. But I think we need both the truth of grace, it's all of grace, but also the truth of ongoing responsibility of us to persevere in the faith and continue in the grace of God. Scripture passages on both sides of that, I believe. Helpful testimony. His testimony reminded me of some folks I knew as a young Christian.

I was raised in a tradition that believes in “conditional security” though not long after I became a Christian as a teenager I became convinced of “eternal security.” Now I’m more in the “conditional security” belief again. Though I don’t like either phrase.

I’ve seen too many cases of “once saved always saved” meaning one accepts Christ and then go out and sin left and right but think they’re eternally secure. Well, only God knows their heart and what’s going on. As you say, and I wonder about that interpretation of “inherit the kingdom of God”, they at least are not enjoying their salvation.

It’s all grace, and I believe God works in his children so we persevere, but it’s all of grace. I don’t get worried when I inevitably sin or struggle with sin. Though I should worry if I don’t care anymore and no longer bother with confession of sin, and repentance. The grace of God is at work to help us in that way.

I see from the Scripture the idea that a Christian, yes a Christian can apostasize, turn their back on God and no longer care. Something of what Hebrews talks about when one despises the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified and does despite to the Spirit of grace, and crucifies the Son of God all over again. If this interpretation is true, I also think it’s not easy to get there. I know this sounds like foreign language to you in the other camp.

But I think we need both the truth of grace, it’s all of grace, but also the truth of ongoing responsibility of us to persevere in the faith and continue in the grace of God. Scripture passages on both sides of that, I believe.

]]> By: cerenity http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1140 cerenity Sat, 24 May 2008 04:26:50 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1140 If money is your problem, this is what I have done: First I made a sign and taped it to the wall where I could see it no matter where in my favoirte room I sat. The sign says: SPIRIT OF DEBT DOES NOT AND WILL NOT HAVE A HOLD ON MY LIFE DEBT FREE IS WHAT I WILL BE! Then on my white board I wrote: God's plan is for us to pray to be debt free and perservere-I will not rob peter to pay paul-Interest will go in my pocket not theirs. Debt free is what we will be! Remember walk by faith not by sight everything will turn out right. say it, belive it and it will happen if you want it bad enough. Bills will begin to disappear. Your living on cash not credit. I wish you well. Easy no! Worth the pain, YOU BET! I wish you well! If money is your problem, this is what I have done:
First I made a sign and taped it to the wall where I could see it no matter where in my favoirte room I sat. The sign says: SPIRIT OF DEBT DOES NOT AND WILL NOT HAVE A HOLD ON MY LIFE DEBT FREE IS WHAT I WILL BE!
Then on my white board I wrote:
God’s plan is for us to pray to be debt free and perservere-I will not rob peter to pay paul-Interest will go in my pocket not theirs.
Debt free is what we will be!
Remember walk by faith not by sight everything will turn out right. say it, belive it and it will happen if you want it bad enough.
Bills will begin to disappear. Your living on cash not credit. I wish you well. Easy no! Worth the pain, YOU BET! I wish you well!

]]> By: cerenity http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1139 cerenity Sat, 24 May 2008 03:37:26 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1139 When you struggle with any problem, no matter how big it seems, remember God is bigger and he knows what you are going through. Keep your head held high, and smile, and say over and over again to yourself. "Walk by Faith, Not by sight everything will turn out right." Say it everyday before you leave the house. Say it like you mean it! Then wish everyone you meet, I hope you have the best day ever. When someone asks you How are you? Say Blessed, thank you. Say it with conviction! God hears you, He might not answer you right away, but He does hear you, God gives us what we need, not what we want. Everyday you are upright is a good day! You see I can say this because this is my story: Several years ago my husband and I moved from Arizona to North Carolina, we sold everything we had at a yard sale including our home. So with walkie talkies, a truck filled with the things we wanted to keep, and me following behind in a car with our dog we set out, not knowing if we would have a home, or jobs. We set out and 2300 miles, I kept repeating walk by faith, not by sight everything will be alright. Playing the song He keeps his eye on the sparrow. When we arrived, within 2.5 months we had a 3 bedroom 1.5 bath home in a nice neighborhood, we both got jobs we like, and being 55 years old, and my husband being 72 we have a better life now then we ever had in Arizona. God Blessed Us Good, and He will Bless you too. All He wants you to do is to turn your problems over to Him, and don't take them back. If you take them back they will never disappear, they will only get worse. Let Go and Let God! Simple to say yes! Hard to do? That's up to you. May God Be with this day and everyday. I hope everyone can turn their problems over to the care of God as we understand and need Him. Let God know He is loved by you today. If you can't think of a short prayer here's one: God I hope we both have a good day today, and thank you for all you do in my life, and I hope I do something to make you smile. When you struggle with any problem, no matter how big it seems, remember God is bigger and he knows what you are going through. Keep your head held high, and smile, and say over and over again to yourself. “Walk by Faith, Not by sight everything will turn out right.” Say it everyday before you leave the house. Say it like you mean it!
Then wish everyone you meet, I hope you have the best day ever. When someone asks you How are you? Say Blessed, thank you. Say it with conviction! God hears you, He might not answer you right away, but He does hear you, God gives us what we need, not what we want.
Everyday you are upright is a good day!
You see I can say this because this is my story:
Several years ago my husband and I moved from Arizona to North Carolina, we sold everything we had at a yard sale including our home. So with walkie talkies, a truck filled with the things we wanted to keep, and me following behind in a car with our dog we set out, not knowing if we would have a home, or jobs. We set out and 2300 miles, I kept repeating walk by faith, not by sight everything will be alright. Playing the song He keeps his eye on the sparrow. When we arrived, within 2.5 months we had a 3 bedroom 1.5 bath home in a nice neighborhood, we both got jobs we like, and being 55 years old, and my husband being 72 we have a better life now then we ever had in Arizona. God Blessed Us Good, and He will Bless you too. All He wants you to do is to turn your problems over to Him, and don’t take them back. If you take them back they will never disappear, they will only get worse. Let Go and Let God! Simple to say yes! Hard to do? That’s up to you.
May God Be with this day and everyday. I hope everyone can turn their problems over to the care of God as we understand and need Him. Let God know He is loved by you today. If you can’t think of a short prayer here’s one: God I hope we both have a good day today, and thank you for all you do in my life, and I hope I do something to make you smile.

]]> By: Elaa http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1136 Elaa Sat, 24 May 2008 01:40:24 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1136 I may be wrong, but I think the struggle for assurance comes with the territory of being a believer! Personally, I don't 'struggle' to make sure I qualify - I know for a fact I would never make it by my works. My struggle though -when I do struggle- is that 'am I still in?' So it's not, 'have I been good enough to stay in?' It's 'have I so missed it that I'm out?' It doesn't help that God has His own formula for answering prayers. So, I tend to think, He's not answering because I am out. But I can imagine the struggle. My latest nightmare is that my sister, who was an ordained minister of God has become a muslim! She has been seperated from her pastor husband for some years now, and is in the process of getting a divorce. It's a touchy matter, so we are not talking about it. But I can imagine that she didn't think she qualified as a divorcee. Islam on the other hand, does not frown on her being a divorcee and she can even remarry. I'm a believer married to a divorced believer but I guess she didn't feel we qualified. So, I have a sister who is a minister-turned- muslim. I may be wrong, but I think the struggle for assurance comes with the territory of being a believer!

Personally, I don’t ’struggle’ to make sure I qualify – I know for a fact I would never make it by my works. My struggle though -when I do struggle- is that ‘am I still in?’ So it’s not, ‘have I been good enough to stay in?’ It’s ‘have I so missed it that I’m out?’ It doesn’t help that God has His own formula for answering prayers. So, I tend to think, He’s not answering because I am out.

But I can imagine the struggle. My latest nightmare is that my sister, who was an ordained minister of God has become a muslim! She has been seperated from her pastor husband for some years now, and is in the process of getting a divorce. It’s a touchy matter, so we are not talking about it. But I can imagine that she didn’t think she qualified as a divorcee. Islam on the other hand, does not frown on her being a divorcee and she can even remarry. I’m a believer married to a divorced believer but I guess she didn’t feel we qualified. So, I have a sister who is a minister-turned- muslim.

]]> By: desert rose http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1135 desert rose Fri, 23 May 2008 22:54:53 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1135 I have found what everyone wrote interesting and true. I have found what everyone wrote interesting and true.

]]> By: pegramsdell http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1134 pegramsdell Fri, 23 May 2008 21:31:03 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1134 When I realized that Jesus was truly alive and had not died on the cross, I was so happy and shocked. I realized that it was true, I got a witness way deep down inside of me and I was truly set free. I felt different, acted different, couldn't wait to tell everyone about it. I had such peace and love in me, everything was beautiful and everyone was beautiful. Then as the years went I let the cares of the world and my family pull me away, and I thought there was no way back, that God would never forgive me again. But, thank You Jesus, He did. I went through a lot of changes and struggles where I tried to "do" everything right also. I can so relate. Thank you for your friends story and God bless you Mart. When I realized that Jesus was truly alive and had not died on the cross, I was so happy and shocked. I realized that it was true, I got a witness way deep down inside of me and I was truly set free. I felt different, acted different, couldn’t wait to tell everyone about it.
I had such peace and love in me, everything was beautiful and everyone was beautiful.
Then as the years went I let the cares of the world and my family pull me away, and I thought there was no way back, that God would never forgive me again.
But, thank You Jesus, He did. I went through a lot of changes and struggles where I tried to “do” everything right also. I can so relate.
Thank you for your friends story and God bless you Mart.

]]> By: daisymarygoldr http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/05/23/a-friends-struggle-for-assurance/#comment-1133 daisymarygoldr Fri, 23 May 2008 18:42:50 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=168#comment-1133 This struggle is universal to all followers of Christ even as we relate to Paul’s cries of frustration in Rom 7: “I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but do what I hate to do. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? Thanks be to God- the answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord!” As long as we reside on this planet we’ll be always subjected to the earth’s gravitational pull. Thanks to the Wright brothers for discovering the law of aerodynamics that helped to set us free from the law of gravity...enabling us to overcome the earthly pull and soar to unreachable heights far above in space! "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:2) Therefore, as followers of Christ we can rest in the firm assurance that nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ (Romans 8:38-39) and nothing can ever pluck us from the hands of our Heavenly Father (John 10:28-29)! This struggle is universal to all followers of Christ even as we relate to Paul’s cries of frustration in Rom 7: “I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but do what I hate to do. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? Thanks be to God- the answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord!”

As long as we reside on this planet we’ll be always subjected to the earth’s gravitational pull. Thanks to the Wright brothers for discovering the law of aerodynamics that helped to set us free from the law of gravity…enabling us to overcome the earthly pull and soar to unreachable heights far above in space! “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death” (Romans 8:2)

Therefore, as followers of Christ we can rest in the firm assurance that nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ (Romans 8:38-39) and nothing can ever pluck us from the hands of our Heavenly Father (John 10:28-29)!

]]>