Been Thinking About

23 Responses to “Applying for Heaven”

1. desert rose Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 9:28 am

   I wouldn’t change a thing you wrote - very well done.

2. BruceC Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 9:49 am

   Your posting today relates very much to a recent, tragic event in our little church. Our pastor of many years died suddenly of a massive heart attack this past Monday. He was only 54 and a very big(not obese) man that looked like a football player. He used to tell us how some folks would call him a “good man” and his response would be “No I’m not. I’m just a sinner saved by the grace of God. Whatever good you see is Christ in me, not me. There are no good men.” That was “Rick” and he taught us many truths from God’s Word and from the life he lived. Not perfect, but likely reflected the love of Jesus more than any person I’ve met. Please pray for his wife and family and for our little country church congregation as we go foward in the Lord. He is home with the Lord now so our sorrow shall rise into praise of the Lord Jesus Christ!

3. drkennyg Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 10:22 am

   Wow that was both heavy and helpful. When I am tempted to think of myself as a good man it never feels right because it isn’t right. I’m just a sinner who has been saved through Jesus Christ and the power of His resurrection; i’ve got zippo qualifications and rely on His Word, the Cross (His blood), and His promises. And BruceC don’t accept anything less than Pastor Rick - sounds like he preached the Gospel. Stick together in the Lord and all will be well soon.

4. pegramsdell Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 am

   There really are no good men. Or women. All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. That much is true, but, there is One who is perfect, and I humbly bow down and ask to come in.
   I actually have no skills and no degrees that will get me to heaven. But, I do know some “One”. And I believe in Him (Jesus) and that He is the Son of God. And I love Him.
   I do agree with the Pastor’s response, that if they see good in me it is Jesus. That’s awesome.

5. Jeph Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm

   Mart,
   I cannot speak for anyone else, but I personally have all the qualifications I need. My application does not have the space enough to list them. I fact, I’m “Over Qualified”!!! You see, I have JESUS! Sometimes it’s who you know not what you know.

6. ECEIT Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm

   As I read, I remembered what a friend told me before; He asked me, what if you are at the gate of heaven and God asked you, why should I let you enter. Then he told me,

   “if it happens, you are suppose to tell HIM; Because You promised, John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.”

7. poohpity Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 2:52 pm

   I have nothing to add or subtract. It is a very narrow gate but open to all. Amen!

8. pogren Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 3:01 pm

   I have tried to be “good enough” for many people in my life…..I’m tired of that….I am sooooooo thankful that Jesus loves me just as I am—but cares enough not to leave me there…..

9. bala Says:
   July 2nd, 2008 at 4:21 pm

   It’s a bit of a problem for me. I hear phrases like “faith without action is meaningless”, but now you have so much in the new testament that nothing can save us. It’s a bit of a free pass. It doesn’t matter what you do, judgement day is irrelevant. Do unto others? - only if you feel like it. Doesn’t Jesus expect us to be an example of him? If we let him down are there no consequences?

10. paul bishop Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    As believers we worship the finished work of the cross.
    I ask myself: Do I worship the sender or the sent?
    And I can take that one step further: Do I worship
    the ” Enabler ” and the one that convicts us? We
    know that the Father sent the Son and the Son sent the
    Spirit. This leads us to the grand mystery of the
    Trinity. Infinite can not be defined in the finite.
    God wins!

11. rokdude5 Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    There was a time were things were rather difficult for me and of course, I fell off the straight and narrow. My conversation with God at that time was, “Lord, I feel ashamed and not worthy to be a part of Your family so I returning my “membership card” back to You.” IMMEDIATELY, I heard in my mind’s ear, “No, keep the card! You have a lifetime membership.” I then broke down.

12. daisymarygoldr Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Forsaking
    All (my accomplishments, achievements or qualifications)
    I, the worst sinner of all, do
    Trust and take
    Him - alone, for salvation from sins.

    “God doesn’t grade on a curve”, yet once I’m saved, Grace is not my license for reckless sinning (Heb 10:26). I no longer depend on the merits of the law to work my way to heaven and I also do not defy but delight in obeying God’s laws (Rom7:22). By abiding in Christ I try to ‘sin less’ in a loving response to my God who has justified me as ‘sinless’.

13. Becky M Says:
    July 2nd, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    I can not add anything to what you wrote Mart, or anyone else. I’m so glad that we don’t have to fill out an application before we get in.

14. KayakBill Says:
    July 3rd, 2008 at 2:14 am

    This ‘New Believer’ thanks you all, again, for taking the time to post your thoughts and comments. You are all providing me with guidance that I have difficulty finding locally in this small town in TN. All I hear at any of these local churches is ‘Hell-fire and Damnation!’. I already KNOW I’m in trouble, I don’t need it drummed into my head every Sunday! You folks are helping me find my way back after my life took a wrong turn so many years ago, and I appreciate you all more than you can possibly fathom. May God bless you ALL, and keep you safe.

15. Sasha45 Says:
    July 3rd, 2008 at 7:25 am

    Great responses to yesterday’s blog.
    Was lead to the book of Jude 20-25, this is my prayer for you.
    “But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith: praying in the Holy Spirit; keep yourselves in the love of God waiting anxiously for the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior; through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen

16. tish Says:
    July 3rd, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Great responses indeed,its unfortunate i did not log on yesterday.but i thank God its still open for discussion today as well.
    Mart, this is an important and ineresting thought to consider.Its reminded us once again that our salvation is not from works, but a gift through faith in christ
    But how do we reconcile working out our salvation{through works) with being saved by grace alone?
    i believe that is what paul draws our minds to, should we continue in sin for grace to abound?, for dont u know that whatever u subject your selves unto becomes your master?,be it righteousness unto God or sin unto death.
    how then do we become righteose? through faith in christ . For we are justified through faith and not by works. Works therefore does not save us, but our faith in christ,with the help of the Holy Ghost convicts us when we sin, and also helps us to rise and live above sin.
    Salvation i believe is a process, and as such we can not continue in sin after we’re saved but rather with the help of the Holy Ghost,we can live that righteouse life that is expected of us as christians which is solely the effect of the work of God which is in us
    in one of his teachings, christ said to his followers, on that day many will come and say dont remember me, i did this i did that and so on, and i’ll say to them, i never knew you.
    i set a standard to myself that there is a sin i’ll never fall to, but with time i’ve been humbled and have come to the understanding that it is only God that makes us righteouse
    I hope i have not diluted your message Mart,may God continue to guide you as you bring some of these thoughts to mind. i will also be glad if you could bring up a thought on Gods forgivenes to us and our forgiveness to each other,as to wthether its neccesary for our transgresors to admit theire faults in line with God requiring us to admit we are sinners
    thank you all for your time
    may God richly bless you
    amen

17. rdrcomp Says:
    July 7th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    …that whosoever believeth in Him… Anything added becomes work. Sometimes we try to make believing something we do (work), sometimes “receiving Christ” can seem to be something “I did”.

    Sure, believe means relying on, depending on, trusting in but guess Who enables that?? It is all of God in salvation (qualification for heaven). I believe, but I give any credit for believing to God. No one can come to me (Jesus)unless the Father who sent me draws him. (Jn 6:44) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8)

    The comments about letting God down, grace isn’t a license to sin, etc. are not to be applied to salvation, but to sanctification, growing in faith. And a lot of us get the two mixed up often.

    We just naturally want to “do something” for salvation, because after all, we are taught “there are no free lunches, you gotta work for all you get, because nobody is going to do it for you.”

    But Jesus did just that. Salvation is a completely free gift. If we try…. then it is not a gift, and there is no salvation in trying.

18. Clive Belsham Says:
    July 9th, 2008 at 12:46 am

    In response to the question “Why should I let you into my heaven” I shall say “Because I love you and I want to enjoy you forever, and there is no place in which I would rather spend eternity than with you in heaven?”

    [Apologies to John Piper and John Calvin]

19. KDB Says:
    July 23rd, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    God saves us by His grace for our faith, but just because we believe that does not qualify us for heaven. By the grace of God for our faith, we are not condemned for sin by the curse under the Law. But that does not mean we have been forgiven of all trespasses to be made alive in Christ (saved). We are being justified as we repent and confess our sins until we are made righteous/just by the Spirit of Christ being the life within us. Repentance may be work, but it is not “works”. Jesus Christ is the way to the Father, but just because we believe that does not mean we have been reconciled to God. God dwells in us but we are not reconciled to God if we choose to live in sin.
    1 John 3:7-10, Matthew 25:34-46, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

20. Gasman Says:
    August 13th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    1-”No personal accomplishments deserving of heaven.”
    This is correct. There is nothing one can do to earn his/her way into heaven.
    2-”All we can say is that we believe Christ died for our sins.”
    This is not completely correct. We indeed must believe Christ died for our sins. But this is not “all we can say” because there is something we must do to have our sins removed so that we can come in contact with Christ’s blood. We must be baptized. And this is an immersion into water. There are 10 examples of conversion in the N.T. (meaning how one becomes a Christian)All of them are found in Acts. 9 out of the 10 explicitly mentions baptism, the other one it is implied. Why would Jesus command it (Mark 16:16) and why did the N.T. Christians practice it each and every time? The simple answer is that it is required because it is commanded.(Acts 2:38; 8:35-39; 9:18; 10:48;16:14,15;30-33;18:8;19:522:16, etc.)If baptism were not necessary why did Jesus and His apostles command that it be done BEFORE one was saved? Baptism is for the removal of our sins. Many say that baptism is an important part of being a Christian after they are saved. How can one think they can face God in judgment if they are still in their sins? God had to turn His back on His Son when He took on the sins of the world. (Luke 23:44,45)He had to forsake His own Son when Jesus took on the sins of the people. This is because God cannot be in the presence of sin. Christ’s blood will cover our sins when we stand in judgment but His blood will not veil those who have not believed in Him, repented of their sins, confessed Christ as the Son of the living God AND then been baptized to have their sins washed away. Why did Peter say what he said in Acts 2:38 if it were not necessary? Wouldn’t it have been much easier to just say, “repent and believe in Jesus and when you get a chance get baptized too”? Afterall, the apostles had to baptize 3,000 people on the first day that Christ’s church was established! Why go through all that trouble if it was not needed immediately? Why did Philip go through the effort to baptize the Eunuch on a dusty deserted road if were not necessary? Why didn’t Philip just say to him, “believe and accept Jesus now and when you get home get baptized when you get a chance? I could go on but I think you get the point. Why was baptism always done immediately after confession and repentance? Because until one is baptized one is still in their sins! This letter is already too long and I apologize. But I want to add one more thought. So many good folks say that all one needs is faith in God to be saved. Just believe in Jesus and accept Him into your heart and you are saved. No where in the Bible does it ever say this. I wish some of those who feel this way would explain James 2:19 and James 2:24. James said the demons believed in God and “tremble”. Surely nobody here believes they are saved. James also says that a man IS justified by works and NOT faith only! Hmmmmm. By the way, baptism is NOT a work of man that so many people use as an excuse so they can say it is not needed to be saved. Col. 2:12 quite clearly explains that our baptism (that indeed is needed for salvation)is a work of God, not man! When one is baptized he/she is not doing a work. They are submitting to Christ’s command and then are allowing someone else put them under the water in Christ’s name just as it was done in the 1st century church. God has always expected obedience from mankind in order to be right with Him, from the Garden of Eden, during Noah’s days, when Israel and the Jews were His chosen people and so on. God has always demanded obedience. But He knew that man was incapable of keeping the law in the Garden and consequently the law of Moses. So He sent His son to fulfill the law and then He nailed it to the cross. (Col. 2:14) But that doesn’t mean He does not require obedience for us today. He now wants us to be obedient to the commands that His precious Son left for us after He did away with the old law. Read Rom. 6:17 and tell me what “form of doctrine” is Paul talking about that set the Roman Christians “free from sin” that they were OBEYING? What did
    the Hebrew writer mean when he says that “all who obey Him” have eternal salvation. (Heb. 5:9)
    We must have faith, but it MUST be an obedient faith. Obedient to what? Jesus say that if we love Him we will keep His commands. (John 14:15) And we are His friends if we do whatever He commands us (John 15:14) Two of His commands are
    found in Mark 16:16; cf. Matt. 28:18-20)
    This is submitted with all respect and in Christian love.

21. Mart De Haan Says:
    August 15th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Gasman, I appreciate the attitude with which you expressed your convictions. I understand where you are coming from, but also believe that there is a problem with concluding that the physical act of baptism is what removes our sins. The thief on the cross was assured of “Paradise” without water baptism (Luke 23:43). But far more important is the general principle of the NT that we are saved by faith rather than by our obedience (Rom 4:5).

    Many people who come to Christ show evidence of a changed heart and changed life without ever being baptised in water. This is the kind of evidence that the Jerusalem church had to weigh in the first century when they learned that non-Jewish people were receiving new life without “circumcision” (which for Jewish males was a “sign of the covenant” (Acts 15).

    We’ve recently written a 32 page booklet in our discovery series which you can find at this link.

    This booklet describes the history of baptism and its relationship to personal forgiveness and adoption into the family of God.

22. Gasman Says:
    August 16th, 2008 at 12:18 am

    Hello Mart,
    Thanks for writing. I too appreciate not only your attitude but also your concern for everyone. I am a longtime reader of Our Daily Bread(more than 30 years). Three thoughts concerning the thief on the cross. 1.- He was talking with Christ, who is God, and Christ had (has) the ability to forgive sins at any time He wants and could have forgiven the thief. 2.- The thief could have been baptized into John’s baptism which would have been sufficient until Christ died. 3.- The thief was still under the old law and not under Christ’s law. The need for baptism into Christ to have one’s sins forgiven was not in effect until AFTER Christ died. When Christ forgave the thief He was still alive. I think these possible explanations are more than enough to justify why the thief is in heaven. I find it interesting how many people use the thief on the cross as (one of) the reasons they think baptism is not needed. He is the only person in the N.T. that can be used in an attempt to justify this reasoning(All other examples of conversion include baptism). But I think I have shown above where the thief on the cross is not a strong argument in defense of not needing to be baptized.
    As far as the faith issue. You are right when you say that we are saved by faith. And we can go to Scripture that does indeed say that. But as I stated very clearly using Scripture (in my post above),the kind of faith that saves us is indeed an obedient faith. I am not trying to be argumentive but, again as I stated in my posting, every act of conversion in the N.T. involved water baptism and there are so many other passages (some I have cited above) that tell us what baptism does for us, including it being necessary for salvation. It always bewilders me that good God fearing folks will use only the “saved by faith”, “call on His name” and “all who believe” verses in the Bible to justify that this is all that is needed to be saved when there even more passages that show that baptism is also needed. I could do the same thing with baptism. I have studied with people who didn’t know the Bible very well, if at all. If I were to just show them the verses that say that baptism removes one’s sins (and there are many that say exactly that) and that baptism saves us and then close the Bible and then say, “You see, all you have to do is be baptized and you are saved”, I would be grossly in error! Why? Because the Bible tells us that we must believe in God and have faith that He is(Heb. 11:6), we must repent of our sins (Act 2:38;3:19; Luke 13:3,5), we must confess Christ (Matt. 10:32; Acts 8:37),we must be baptized to have our sins forgiven (Acts 2:38;22:16), and then we must live faithfully until death (2 Tim 4:7,8;Rev.2:10) These are the clear and Scriptually correct steps to salvation. The Bible never ever contradicts itself. If we think that it does, the problem lies with the reader and not the Word. So if the Bible says something in one place and then tells us to do something in another, it does not negate the other passage. They simply become an addition to one another. When reading any book, including the Bible, we must look at the context (I know you know this). Most of the passages that people used to justify that we are “saved by faith only” and that baptism isn’t necessary are singled out and isolated without looking at the context of what is being said. Most of these verses come out of the epistles. Who were the epistles written to? Everyone of them are written to Christians. They were not written to those that were lost. The point is those who were the recipients of these letters were already baptized. One example: There were those in the church at Ephesus that were bragging about their works and that is why Paul wrote what he did in Eph.2:8,9. He was trying to tell them that there were no works of man that could save them. And Paul was writing to Christians that had already been obedient to the Gospel, including baptism. But even though the epistles were written to Christians there are many, many references to baptism and the reasons for it and why everyone submitted to it.
    I thought I cited some very good verses in my above posting to back up what I am trying to teach, yet no one seems to want to look at each of them and then either agree or tell me where I am in error. Some of them are James 2:19+24; Col.2:12; Rom. 6:17; Heb.5:9 and all of the ones in Acts that show us what people in the 1st century did to become Christians. I am not trying to get into a debate. I am just trying to teach the truth that is in the Bible and would like your thoughts on these and other passages and also on what I have stated in this post and the above one. I am compassionate about teaching the Word of God and am very much concerned for winning souls to God. But we must be careful what and how we teach His word because teachers will be judged stricter than others (James 3:1).
    Concerning what you stated above. “Many people who come to Christ show evidence of a changed heart and changed life without ever being baptised in water.”
    I know that this is true. When one accepts Christ as the Son of God and has a change of heart and life this is evidence of faith and repentance. And these things must indeed be evident before one is ready to have their sins forgiven. But even though the person has “come to Christ” they are not “In Christ” until they are baptized into Christ and then they have put Christ on. (Gal. 2:26,27)

    “This is the kind of evidence that the Jerusalem church had to weigh in the first century when they learned that non-Jewish people were receiving new life without “circumcision” (which for Jewish males was a “sign of the covenant” (Acts 15).”
    The kind of “evidence” that was being weighed at the conference in Jerusalem (Acts 15:4-29)was that there were some Christian Jews in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia that were insisting that, in addition to being obedient to the law of Christ (including baptism),they said it was also necessary to be circumcised to be saved. (Acts 15:1; cf.15:23)So the church sent Paul, Barnabas and others to Jerusalem to meet with the elders and the other apostles to inquire about this problem. (although Paul already knew what the outcome would be). And the outcome was that physical circumcision was not needed anymore. One could still practice it (Acts 16:3), but it was not needed for salvation. They then wrote them a letter to affirm that circumcision was not needed (Acts 15:23-29). As you also stated, circumcision was indeed the sign of the covenant under the old law of Moses. But under the new law (covenant) of Christ that sign had (has) been replaced with a new sign. What is that sign that tells everyone that they are in Christ and saved? It is baptism! Read Col. 2:11,12 and see if this is not true. Paul talks about being circumcised “without hands”. How was that done? By getting rid of their sins of the flesh with the “circumcision of Christ”. What is the “circumcision of Christ” that also gets rid of our sins? Verse 12 clearly say that it is baptism. If you are honest you will have to come to the conclusion that there was a sign in the O.T. that identified one as a chosen one of God and in the N.T.(and ever since) there is a sign that shows we are a chosen one of Christ and thus saved. It is also interesting to note that verse 12 also clearly tells us that baptism is NOT a work of man but is instead a work of God. It says that we were buried with Him in baptism and them raised with Him through faith. So there is the faith aspect. But it is an obedient faith. Obedient in that we submit to Him in baptism which is symbolic of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection. We “die” to our old selves (repentance), and then we are “buried” in the watery grave of baptism and then we are “raised” to walk in newness of life. This how we are “born again” (born of the water and the Spirit-John 3:3-5).
    I will end this for now. Sorry if it is too long. Please let me know what your thoughts are on these things and what (and why) you disagree. I submit this as I always do.
    With all respect and in Christian Love, Gasman.

23. Gasman Says:
    August 16th, 2008 at 12:20 am

    BTW Mart - When I get a chance I will read your 32 page booklet

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