Been Thinking About

16 Responses to “How to Find Unity in the Bible”

1. rdrcomp Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 7:22 am

   You know, Mart, I am fascinated by all I read in the Bible, and have used that fascination to take some of those implications I get from the scriptures and form opinions about beliefs and belief systems of others who see things different from me. Sometimes that can lead to downright wicked attitudes, and I know that at the least, it saddens our loving Lord.

   A real help to me came from the heart of Vance Havner some years back. He said that since 1 John 3:23 says that Jesus’ commandment is to “believe in the name of (God’s) Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us”, that we have all we need to keep us occupied by doing just that. (I’m sure I didn’t quote brother Vance ver batim, but that is the jist of it) Just think, believing (trusting, relying, leaning on, listening to, keeping up with, following, receiving from, etc) is a full time, loving, happy occupation that should fill our minds and hearts and very lives with Jesus. And secondly, loving one another. Who does this well enough to think he/she has arrived at Jesus’ standard of love. Not me.

   I don’t mean to imply that we shouldn’t be discerning about bad theology, but I imagine that most of us who enjoy interacting on this blog can smell false doctrine a mile away.

   So don’t we have enough to do by keeping up with Jesus, and loving each other (really loving, really trusting Him) that unity in essentials should be a recognized trait in our lives. Do you think that if we worked on these things, our witness would make sense to those who have seen us beat up on each other and have been repulsed at our “brand of Christianity” up until now. Maybe that is why Jesus words are so true and convicting, “by this shall all men know that you are my disciples if you have love one to another”.

2. poohpity Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 7:50 am

   I am amazed at how many have never read the whole bible. I believe and I do not mind being corrected, that many do a bible study of a book other than the bible, study just passages or a topic. It seems that years ago families used to read the bible everyday as a family time and it was the main book that many learned to even read from.

   I know many who read ODB but just the thought of the day and do not even see the daily bible reading on the page. When I try and discuss the bible with anybody I ask if they have ever read it all because I have a frame of reference for the basis of conversation.

   Mart to you have any statistics about how many believers read it? This is a big question in my life and if they do not read it what stops them and what can we do to promote daily reading.

3. Mart De Haan Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 7:59 am

   rdrcomp, we could all go along way with that kind of focus. I agree.

   But we are also part of a Body which, although designed to work together, is (like the first century church) divided and fragmented over so many things.

   I’m hoping our ongoing conversations here can help us come together around the essentials while also growing together in the gracious art of disagreement– honoring the truth and wisdom of the Bible, while pressing and testing honest differences with grace.

4. desert rose Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 8:43 am

   poohpity: I believe we are lazy as believers and we are satisfied with being spoon fed. Another reason we don’t read the Bible through is because so many are not using a translation that is easy for them to understand. I came across the New Century Version and used it along with the lessons and in the classes I taught everyone wanted that translation because it is easy to understand.

   I agree that we should ‘agree to disagree’ on certain things that are not as important as the message Christ gave us when He gave us the new commandment that “we are to love one another.”

5. rdrcomp Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 10:07 am

   Mart, you are right on, and I think this blog tends to do these very things: learn to come together on essentials, and grow in grace towards others we tend to disagree with sometimes. It surely causes me to think and to consider other viewpoints. I had a professor a while back that suggested that each believer have theological positions taken of course from the scriptures, but to be open enough to consider other positions based upon Scripture, humble enough to change one’s position if persuaded by those Scriptures, and gracious enough toward someone you disagree with if you are persuaded that your position was correct after all. I hadn’t thought about that in a long time, but it is good advice that I will try to heed more and more. Seems like he and you have a lot in common.

   I appreciate the opportunity you have given to all of us to interact with these subjects.

6. Valkiria Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 10:48 am

   Reading the Bible can be difficult, especially those genealogy and narrative parts like when Apostle Paul was traveling and it has all the details about navigation, sorry to say, those can put me to sleep!
   Then I started to understand why those references are in the Bible! The genealogy help us see that those are real people, with family, and that even Jesus had a real human family, going back to David, as the prophecy said He would. Frankly, I still having problem with those navigations details, though!
   In many moments in my life I can understand why Hebrews 4:12 says that “For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.” as the many passages that one day I read and thought nothing about will come to my mind, like seedlings just waiting for the right amount of water to come alive!

   Val

7. rokdude5 Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

   This topic has boggled my mind for years. If we are created in God’s image, you would think that we would all have the same “one-mind” as God Himself yet we dont. Some of us read the various passages in Scriptures literally and others, figuratively. God created us with different individual minds which in turn, leads us to some many interpretations of various passages in the Bible.

   You may recall that in the 2nd temptation of Christ, that the Devil, himself, quoted Scriptures though he misquoted it. Think about this - If Satan knows the Scriptures and we dont, what do you think that would lead to? This is why for me, I need to read the Scriptures myself, daily. Part of my problem is I dont know the original Greek word. I can see that, at times, the English translation is loose and clumsy. Reading Revelation is so mind boggling, that I know my interpretations are bound to be wrong along the way.

   I agree with rdrcomp…that at least we love the Lord and love others as ourselves (though the latter is the most challenging for me.) If we all do that, then that in itself, will cause all of us to be united. Praise God.

   Again, thanks for this blog. I know it’s in its infancy. Eventually there will be hundreds of postings.

8. micki-b Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

   You know, I am one of those people who has a hard time reading the Bible. I want to be a regular reader. These are the things that trip me up:

   1. Time (yes I know we all have the same 24 hours, we Don’t all have the same responsibilities). My schedule is very erratic and I am not able to read it the same time every day. Probably being able to get a routine would allow me to read every day but as I am a single mom that homeschools and works about 50 hours a week and am very involved in 4 ministries in my church (which means that reading the bible ought to be essential…)i really struggle with being able to sit down long enough to read thru the bible.

   2. When I read the Bible, I feel condemned. That is probably the biggest single reason that i have never read the whole bible thru. when I read the proverbs I am all the bad pople, never the good people, no matter how hard I try to see myself there. I am the fool, the wicked woman, the one on the wrong path, even when I try to be on the right one.
   My pastor recently told me to look at the Bible thru the filter of the cross, but this is difficult for me. I still do not see myself being “sung over” by God, the years the locusts have eaten are not being redeemed so that I can see it, and I keep praying for that heart of flesh but still have a rock inside. in my head i “know” the truths of the Bible but in my heart i feel unloved, and ignored. (shades of life on earth i think) I KNOW in my head that these 2 things are untrue but still can’t get past the feeling.

   So probably the time issue is only secondary.

   However, on unity, i think you might be on to something mart. sometimes at my church we care so much if the people we support as missionaries agree with our doctrinal statement 100%. i know that i don’t agree with all of it, mostly the part having to do with spiritual gifts. i know that i try to associate with christians of all kinds and try to understand our doctrinal issues without saying “im right and your wrong” because really how do i know that i am right about some of them? there are still a lot of spiritual matters that i am undecided about (pre-, mid- or post- trib for one) that really i need to dig into on my own to see.

   so maybe the way to unity is to unpack our spiritual pride and realize that maybe we aren’t right about some things. (obviously not the essentials…i believe there are 5?)

   thanks mart for doing these blogs. one of these days those of us that are struggling so hard will get there.

9. daisymarygoldr Says:
   August 29th, 2008 at 12:35 pm

   All have sinned, the wages of sin is death, God Himself in Jesus Christ came in the flesh to save people, and He died and rose again to give us eternal life, He is gone for now to prepare a place for us and will surely come back again to receive us into our eternal Heavenly Home.
   How does one apply (1) necessary, (2) probable, (3) possible, (4) improbable or, (5) impossible implications to this Bible truth?

   My friend chose not to vaccinate her babies as she herself never had them and is perfectly healthy and disease-free. I had received shots while growing up and I make sure my child’s shots are also up-to-date. Should I agree or disagree with her because the Bible is silent about it? Is it really worth arguing about something that does not determine my eternal destiny?

   I may have been raised by Christian parents who taught me the Bible, may have had Sunday school teachers who forced me to memorize scriptures (when I was 9 one of them actually made me to stand on one leg for half-an-hour under the hot blazing noon sun for having failed to memorize and recite Ps1… sob-sob), I may have been to a Bible School to master Theology and may be reading the Bible everyday…but without the revelation of Christ I will merely remain an unfruitful branch swaying in all possible directions or nodding my head in gracious agreement to every doctrinal wind.

   Yes, we can be recognized by the fruit- love, but then I can also do all the good works of love without having Christ.

   Paul who had been trained and educated by Gamaliel, the greatest rabbinic teachers of his time, clearly addressed this situation to the church made of Jews who would not forsake their Judaic laws and the Greeks who always wanted to twist everything to suit their own intellectual wisdom. “Dear brothers and sisters, I want you to understand that the Gospel message I preach is not based on mere human reasoning. I received my message from no human source, and no one taught me. Instead, I received it by direct revelation from Jesus Christ” (Gal 1:11-12)!

10. paul bishop Says:
    August 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    I wish that there was a simple solution to bringing about
    unity in the Church………What has been helpful to me
    is to stay connected to God ( walking by the Spirit )and
    leave the results in His hands. I think it is necessary
    to change our self before pointing fingers at others.
    Let’s accept the fact that the Church was never designed
    or intended to be part of the world. This obviously was
    disrupted in the garden as well as after the resurrection
    and the development of the early days, when you would
    expect purity. We are diluted and imperfect. Let’s all go to the Founder, Designer and Redeemer in prayer.
    He is patiently waiting and has already given us an
    example of His Love.

11. nmascarella Says:
    August 29th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    My parents are members of two different denominatians that are polar opposites in most respects. They respect each other’s theological beliefs and never disagree about them where we can hear them. My parents raised us on three governing principles - the Trinity, Salvation, God’s Word. Dad read the Bible to us every night.
    As we got old enough to discuss the Bible, he would often say that if we had a question about the Bible or something we heard in church or something we read, that the first thing we should do is pray about it and ask for God’s guidance. Second, we should read the Bible. This meant ‘actively’ reading the Bible using dictionaries, concordances, history / background information, or what ever it took to find and understand what we needed in the Bible. Third, we should discuss it with him or someone else / others who knew the Bible. Last, we should return to God in prayer and confirm that what we learned is right and good. If we were not at peace with what we learned, then we just had to start over.

    I would like to ask a question here. Have you ever read a passage or book of the Bible that you know you have read at least once or twice before and found something you do not remember ever seeing before? I have done it once of twice and I think it is because God reveals things to us as we need them. Does this make sense to y’all?

12. 4everwealth Says:
    August 30th, 2008 at 4:41 am

    I can’t say I really understand what today’s topic is about but from the earlier responses I have this to say. Just like human growth, spiritual growth is different in different people. I remember a time when I read the bible book after book, and now I read gospel writings and read verses that are referenced in the writings. I may not be as strong as I ought to be spiritually, (but even this is relative) but one scripture comes to mind ‘For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure’Phil 2:13. So, whether you read the bible from Genesis to Revelation or you pick verses from books, church, musi, devotionals, we should unite coz its God who makes all this possible and not our doing.
    God bless you Mart

13. Gale L. Jarvis Says:
    August 30th, 2008 at 6:53 am

    Good Morning everyone, Mart, I believe because we are human beings with a mind, and free choice, some will agree that we can agree to disagree in LOVE, in which God has given me grace to do this, and others that will never desire to do this, but i would like to at least give a few ways the Holy Spirit has given me so that i can agree to disagree in LOVE, AGAPE LOVE that is.
    I believe if a humen being is in Christ, Christ must be in them, thereby Christ will LOVE the person that disagrees with me, and has asked me to LOVE them also PERIOD.
    Another great tool i believe the Holy Spirit has given me, and i believe offers it to everyone that desires to live in unity, even though many i have offered it to disagreed is, i believe every thing in this life is a matter of opinion, even things we say we know absolutely about God, and or His ways.
    I believe when God says we can only see things through a colored glass ( Paraphrase ) no one can see every thing clearly now, but we can and should give our opinion of what we believe God has shown us for the benifit of others if they agree, if they do not, it is just my opinion.
    In my opinion concerning this what seems to be a serious issue Gasman, can be handled with this thought of this being a matter of opinion, and it is a very serious matter, but how i see issues such as this, if you know you are right, you not only must be baptised, and continue to teach this, but in my opinion, i cannot believe Jesus desires for you to be as angered at Mart as it seems you were, when what I heard from Mart was that He knew your opinion would not be changed by continuing the conversation.
    I believe anger and hatred will destroy not only fellowship, but it will destroy the human body, especially the mind, therby i desire to believe every thing in life is a matter of opinion, and i never need to get angered at another person because they do not agree with me, PERIOD.

14. Abigail Says:
    August 30th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Yes, nmascarella, I have often read passages many times and then, suddenly, I understand something new about it. I believe it has a lot to do with how I have grown and matured over the years plus with how much more I am, hopefully, surrendered to the Lord.

    Learning is a process. As I have studied more, especially the context, the writing style, the way the people then would have understood it, parallel (related) scriptures, etc., I have often come away with a new, or deeper, understanding of what is written.

    I also have seen where the scriptures really do have more than one meaning. Oftentimes, there is a real concrete and obvious lesson and, yet, another more subtle spiritual lesson, too. Different applications of the same truth.

    Sometimes, too, I have found that my understanding was colored previously by someone else’s thinking…someone who I later found to be in error. I don’t mean that be judgmental. Some of it goes back to having heard messages from some who pick and choose what they want to believe.

    Anyway, the older I get, the more I am learning to focus on the things that unify us. So long as a teaching is not clearly disagreeing with God’s word, I am fine with agreeing to disagree. There are some things, however, that are so clearly stated that there simply is no room for agreement…or for agreeing to disagree. The teaching is heresy.

    I do have one example of that I heard of recently. A mainline teacher has come out saying that polygamy is OK. Now, the bible does not expressly forbid it, although there are a lot of reasons (examples) it gives that show us good reasons NOT to do it. So, I will agree to disagree on that point.

    However, this person also says it is OK for leaders in the church. Well…hold the show! Scripture clearly and irrefutablly states that a leader must have ONE wife. There is no way around that. To teach otherwise is flat out wrong. Sadly, some friends of mine have seen the destruction that has come from this teaching. Love clearly has nothing to do with it. *sigh*

    While I am a lot less judgmental of others in my “later” years, I still stand strong on the basic, irrefutable truths of the Word. I also do not base those truths upon a paraphrase or a single translation. Since I cannot read the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew, I read several translations and go to my concordance, bible dictionaries, etc. to make sure I get as best of an understanding of what was actually written as I possibly can.

    I have been shown that I was wrong on things that I was firmly convinced of previously. So, I recognize that I will always have more to learn.

15. wpleasant Says:
    August 31st, 2008 at 3:17 am

    Unity in the spiritual realm is a prerequisite to unity in the natural realm. Always has been. Always will be until then end of this world as we know it.
    What we are really trying to achieve is mutual connection with God’s will. Success stories at achieving this level of unity are repleat in the Bible.
    I wasn’t personally present when Our Daily Bread first came into fruition, but because it is such a well respected and cherished devotional ministry, I am willing to guess that the early founders were a praying people, open and willing to be submissive to God’s will. As a result, millions have benefited spiritually and in other ways. Some mistake “unity” with “uniformity”. It is not biblical to say God moved His people to a monolithic “borg-like” conformity. What He did do is to achieve His will with people from various backgrounds, and even at times cultures, to establish His work on earth. If uniformity had been the goal, Gentiles would have summarily rejected the gospel because of it’s unfamiliar source. Excessive dependency on uniformity leads to cultic behavior, partiality, and pharisitical thinking, not love. We are all tempted in this area, because we live in a world that gives lip service to inclusion, but prides itself on exclusive values. “If your sports minded like me you are ok.”" If your artistic and poetic like me you’re ok.” “If you speak my language and like my kind of food, music, and enamored by high technology, you’re ok.” “If you are not like me, stay away.” Doctrinal unity has always been the most illusive in the church. People have killed each other over it in church history and short of that, we have ostracized one another over it.

16. Kattumaram Says:
    September 27th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    I don’t pretend to be a Bible scholar, but what I see in the Bible can hardly be termed “implications”. The Word does not, in my judgement, imply anything, it plain out states it without equivocation. Any part of the Word that may seem unclear can be made clear by keeping everything in context. If the context escapes immediate detection, then prayerful inquiry of the Lord will make the context shine.

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