Comments on: Jesus on Peace and Conflict http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/ with Mart De Haan and Friends Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:52:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: GRANT http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2517 GRANT Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:29:43 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2517 This may have been discussed, but a liberal bible scholar I saw give a talk called putting together one section of the bible with another as "jack-a-loping", from the mythical character, part antelope, part jack rabbit. He cited that the original bible was lost; the oldest versions available are on papyrus in the Chester Beatty Library of Dublin Castle, Ireland, as Mart pointed out in a Daily Bread devotion, www.cbl.ie. Most, if not all, religions, are not "original", but "stolen", or evolved. This does not concern me. As a Christian, it is Jesus's TEACHINGS of love, hope, charity, good neighborliness, faith, discipline (from the Latin= "disciple"), respect for others feelings, etc., almost ad infinitum that do. It's the message, no matter how diluted by history, that keeps us spiritually, and psychologically, healthy and on the right paths in our spiritual journeys. This may have been discussed, but a liberal bible scholar I saw give a talk called putting together one section of the bible with another as “jack-a-loping”, from the mythical character, part antelope, part jack rabbit. He cited that the original bible was lost; the oldest versions available are on papyrus in the Chester Beatty Library of Dublin Castle, Ireland, as Mart pointed out in a Daily Bread devotion, http://www.cbl.ie. Most, if not all, religions, are not “original”, but “stolen”, or evolved. This does not concern me. As a Christian, it is Jesus’s TEACHINGS of love, hope, charity, good neighborliness, faith, discipline (from the Latin= “disciple”), respect for others feelings, etc., almost ad infinitum that do. It’s the message, no matter how diluted by history, that keeps us spiritually, and psychologically, healthy and on the right paths in our spiritual journeys.

]]> By: Mart De Haan http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2411 Mart De Haan Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:51:05 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2411 thankful, Might have been an error on our side. Sorry. Thanks for your patience. thankful, Might have been an error on our side. Sorry. Thanks for your patience.

]]> By: thankful http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2409 thankful Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:25:43 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2409 The Word (scriptures) do not frighten or frustrate except when convicted of sin. God is love and, as such, casts out all fear. Elightenment is having one's being in God because of acceptance of Jesus, His Son. The teaching of Christ on family is a fact leading to a great truth and not cause to be useful for evil. To know God is to know peace and to know peace one must be a child of God. Evil loves darkness and cannot reside as enlightened especially when masking as itself as "an angel of light." I sent this in yesterday but it did not post to the blog entry. I would like to know why? The Word (scriptures) do not frighten or frustrate except when convicted of sin. God is love and, as such, casts out all fear. Elightenment is having one’s being in God because of acceptance of Jesus, His Son. The teaching of Christ on family is a fact leading to a great truth and not cause to be useful for evil. To know God is to know peace and to know peace one must be a child of God. Evil loves darkness and cannot reside as enlightened especially when masking as itself as “an angel of light.”

I sent this in yesterday but it did not post to the blog entry. I would like to know why?

]]> By: alexdizon http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2396 alexdizon Thu, 04 Sep 2008 10:47:55 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2396 The Way, The Truth & The Life - Jesus. That's Him alright. The more I study the Scriptures, the more it all makes sense...it is difficult though when you come across ironies such as this. I struggle a lot especially since I'm a young Christian but that's the beauty of it. You completely depend on God and wait on Him to reveal Himself to you, His thoughts, His ways. It takes a while but there are days when out of the blue, He just gives you the answers and the wisdom that He shares is just magnificent. And when His Truth sinks in, all you can say is "Lord, You are just Wonderful!" The passage Matt just shared also reminds me of this: Matthew 12:30 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. All of us have to make a choice. It's either Him or this world. And if we do choose Him, then by His grace, we can commit our loved ones to Him and somehow through His guidance, be able to represent Christ and His love in our families and communities. The Way, The Truth & The Life – Jesus. That’s Him alright. The more I study the Scriptures, the more it all makes sense…it is difficult though when you come across ironies such as this. I struggle a lot especially since I’m a young Christian but that’s the beauty of it. You completely depend on God and wait on Him to reveal Himself to you, His thoughts, His ways. It takes a while but there are days when out of the blue, He just gives you the answers and the wisdom that He shares is just magnificent. And when His Truth sinks in, all you can say is “Lord, You are just Wonderful!”

The passage Matt just shared also reminds me of this:

Matthew 12:30
“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

All of us have to make a choice. It’s either Him or this world. And if we do choose Him, then by His grace, we can commit our loved ones to Him and somehow through His guidance, be able to represent Christ and His love in our families and communities.

]]> By: Jugglerguy http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2395 Jugglerguy Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:37:32 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2395 I've been meandering towards and away from the Lord for years, and only recently have I been able to to say with absolute confidence that the Lord is working in and around me, changing me, and conforming me (slowly but surely) to the image of His Son. Having said that, the Scriptures in question were always relatively straightforward to me - meaning that it wasn't a huge leap to the conclusion that "the driving of the Sword" was almost a direct reference to the Word of God and it's tendency to draw a line of morality, ethics, and belief between family members, whether there are unsaved family members or not. Speaking as the only Christian in a fractured family I can attest to the truth in it. Jesus said the while we were in the world, we would have conflict and experience persecution but the Peace that He brings transcends the troubles of this world; it stands as the Love of God in spite of, in opposition to, and in victory over a fallen, corrupted, and evil world. While I believe the validity of these interpretations, I am beginning to realize that nothing God does has just one purpose and few, if any, Scriptures are to be taken solely at face value. The myriad mysteries, cross-references, parallels, metaphors, and the sheer breadth and depth of the Bible speak to the unfathomable intelligence, creativity and power of the Lord. As Christians (my belief is that) we should never shy away from, or be fearful of apparent contradictions in the Word of God. They are there for good reasons - a few of the top of my head: They are a test of faith in that we must believe that there is an explanation under the seemingly contradictory surface. They are a challenge to our knowledge of God's word that we must accept willingly as we become aware of these things. They are an opportunity to spend time in study of God's Word, and with the Lord Himself, seeking the Truth, which makes them a blessing. They are an opportunity to prepare us to give good answers to those who might use these apparent contradictions to validate their unbelief. The logic of God is in direct opposition to the logic of the world. Those who don't know the Lord may panic, fret, and worry when someone pokes holes in their "belief system", or points out a contradiction in their philosophy, thereby endangering the very foundations of their beliefs. But we, as Christians, can rejoice that we have a solid foundation in the Word of God, tried, true, and immovable. Even if you aren't familiar with an apparent contradiction someone presents you with, you can always say, "I'll find out what this means for you..." and seize the opportunity to dig deeper into God's Word in order to give an answer to someone who may not know Him and who is having trouble getting past this "contradiction". Take heart, Confused Christians! God wants us to discover the mysteries of His Word! I'm learning that persistence in prayer and study of the Word are the only sure way to achieve this. God Bless You! RF I’ve been meandering towards and away from the Lord for years, and only recently have I been able to to say with absolute confidence that the Lord is working in and around me, changing me, and conforming me (slowly but surely) to the image of His Son. Having said that, the Scriptures in question were always relatively straightforward to me – meaning that it wasn’t a huge leap to the conclusion that “the driving of the Sword” was almost a direct reference to the Word of God and it’s tendency to draw a line of morality, ethics, and belief between family members, whether there are unsaved family members or not. Speaking as the only Christian in a fractured family I can attest to the truth in it. Jesus said the while we were in the world, we would have conflict and experience persecution but the Peace that He brings transcends the troubles of this world; it stands as the Love of God in spite of, in opposition to, and in victory over a fallen, corrupted, and evil world. While I believe the validity of these interpretations, I am beginning to realize that nothing God does has just one purpose and few, if any, Scriptures are to be taken solely at face value. The myriad mysteries, cross-references, parallels, metaphors, and the sheer breadth and depth of the Bible speak to the unfathomable intelligence, creativity and power of the Lord. As Christians (my belief is that) we should never shy away from, or be fearful of apparent contradictions in the Word of God. They are there for good reasons – a few of the top of my head: They are a test of faith in that we must believe that there is an explanation under the seemingly contradictory surface. They are a challenge to our knowledge of God’s word that we must accept willingly as we become aware of these things. They are an opportunity to spend time in study of God’s Word, and with the Lord Himself, seeking the Truth, which makes them a blessing. They are an opportunity to prepare us to give good answers to those who might use these apparent contradictions to validate their unbelief.
The logic of God is in direct opposition to the logic of the world. Those who don’t know the Lord may panic, fret, and worry when someone pokes holes in their “belief system”, or points out a contradiction in their philosophy, thereby endangering the very foundations of their beliefs. But we, as Christians, can rejoice that we have a solid foundation in the Word of God, tried, true, and immovable. Even if you aren’t familiar with an apparent contradiction someone presents you with, you can always say, “I’ll find out what this means for you…” and seize the opportunity to dig deeper into God’s Word in order to give an answer to someone who may not know Him and who is having trouble getting past this “contradiction”. Take heart, Confused Christians! God wants us to discover the mysteries of His Word! I’m learning that persistence in prayer and study of the Word are the only sure way to achieve this.

God Bless You!

RF

]]> By: Valkiria http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2392 Valkiria Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:43:30 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2392 cherielyn, I'm sorry for your loss! At the same time I'm glad that your mom is with the Lord, and that's the real comfort we can have! You and your family will be in my prayers, and I'm sure that the Lord is working on it! I think that you should not be preoccupied, look at it as a good chance for your sister to come to accept Jesus. All in all, show love, for her and for the other siblings, and that will make all the difference! Stay in peace, Val cherielyn, I’m sorry for your loss! At the same time I’m glad that your mom is with the Lord, and that’s the real comfort we can have! You and your family will be in my prayers, and I’m sure that the Lord is working on it! I think that you should not be preoccupied, look at it as a good chance for your sister to come to accept Jesus. All in all, show love, for her and for the other siblings, and that will make all the difference!
Stay in peace,
Val

]]> By: daisymarygoldr http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2391 daisymarygoldr Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:24:18 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2391 Ironically, the very name of the Prince of Peace brings division rather than unity. It draws a dividing line between those who believe the truth and those who do not. What peace would exist between a man who loves the Light and his father who loves darkness? There can be no peace rather conflict between a mother who receives Christ and a daughter who rejects Him. We cannot conform to the “opposite camp” to avoid being in conflict but we can make use of such divisions as opportunities to show the love of Christ to those who are our enemies, do good to those who hate us and pray for those who persecute us… to “affirm both the love of Christ, and the truth He personifies”. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells the disciples to buy swords and in v 51 He tells them not to use the sword. Was Jesus contradicting? No. He wanted to set an example of a peacemaker by not using the sword. His peacemaking at the cross “Father forgive them…,” said it all. Glades Stains played that peacemaking role when people in conflict with the gospel burned her husband Graham Stewart Stains and their two sons alive in their vehicle. The Church continues to be a peacemaker even when last week houses of prayer were torched, orphanage was attacked and a nun was burnt alive in that very place where I lived for almost two growing decades of my life. Therefore, this does not frustrate or frightens me, as it does not contradict with what I have always believed. It is very difficult to be a peacemaker when in conflict for Christ…but if we obey Him and strive to be peacemakers amidst conflicts, marriages will not fail, homes will not wreck, families will not split, Christians will not dissent and church bodies will not divide! BTW, Jesus did not hate His Father or the Holy Spirit to love sinners. Why then would He want to divide us from the ones we love to unite with those whom we wanted to hate? Now, that sounds very contradicting to me…sorry, cannot read your mind on this one Mart! Ironically, the very name of the Prince of Peace brings division rather than unity. It draws a dividing line between those who believe the truth and those who do not. What peace would exist between a man who loves the Light and his father who loves darkness? There can be no peace rather conflict between a mother who receives Christ and a daughter who rejects Him.

We cannot conform to the “opposite camp” to avoid being in conflict but we can make use of such divisions as opportunities to show the love of Christ to those who are our enemies, do good to those who hate us and pray for those who persecute us… to “affirm both the love of Christ, and the truth He personifies”.

In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells the disciples to buy swords and in v 51 He tells them not to use the sword. Was Jesus contradicting? No. He wanted to set an example of a peacemaker by not using the sword. His peacemaking at the cross “Father forgive them…,” said it all.

Glades Stains played that peacemaking role when people in conflict with the gospel burned her husband Graham Stewart Stains and their two sons alive in their vehicle. The Church continues to be a peacemaker even when last week houses of prayer were torched, orphanage was attacked and a nun was burnt alive in that very place where I lived for almost two growing decades of my life.

Therefore, this does not frustrate or frightens me, as it does not contradict with what I have always believed. It is very difficult to be a peacemaker when in conflict for Christ…but if we obey Him and strive to be peacemakers amidst conflicts, marriages will not fail, homes will not wreck, families will not split, Christians will not dissent and church bodies will not divide!

BTW, Jesus did not hate His Father or the Holy Spirit to love sinners. Why then would He want to divide us from the ones we love to unite with those whom we wanted to hate? Now, that sounds very contradicting to me…sorry, cannot read your mind on this one Mart!

]]> By: rokdude5 http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2390 rokdude5 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:58:32 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2390 The way I see it is those of us who work to keep peace in this world will be blessed. This means that to love our enemies, to be nonjudgmental, to keep one's house in order, to follow the law of the land (this one is tough for me if it debase a fellow human being like slavery and segregation.) We dont look at what our "legal rights" are but to act so what we do or dont do will bring glory to God. However, Jesus didnt come to "make peace" but to divide His followers from all others. Inherent in that division is conflict. This is only way I can conceive that will harmonized the two passages. The way I see it is those of us who work to keep peace in this world will be blessed. This means that to love our enemies, to be nonjudgmental, to keep one’s house in order, to follow the law of the land (this one is tough for me if it debase a fellow human being like slavery and segregation.)

We dont look at what our “legal rights” are but to act so what we do or dont do will bring glory to God. However, Jesus didnt come to “make peace” but to divide His followers from all others. Inherent in that division is conflict. This is only way I can conceive that will harmonized the two passages.

]]> By: smcclendon http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2389 smcclendon Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:25:30 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2389 The confusion of God's word comes from his saying, my thoughts are not your thoughts neither are my ways your ways. Gods way of building and restoring comes from tearing down and dividing first. John 1:1,1:14 lets us know that Jesus is the word. as you connect to Hebrews 4:12-13, he lets us know the word is alive and active and divides as it sharper than any two edge sword. It further reads that during this division the thoughts and the intension of the heart are laid bare before the lord (paraphrazing). Christ being the living word has the authority to divide first and bring peace and wholeness later. Those of us in christ can bare witness to this because as we discovered the truth of christ, an automatic, unvaluntary seperation begin to occur around us from friends, family, and other things of the world. in families you see fathers induldging in the things of the world provoking children into anger, thus causing division. likewise we see children disobeying parents causing a sense of regret, thus division has occurred. The bible also declares that a man must leave his father and mother to be united with his wife. Men who have not completely left their mother's covering, (financially, emotionally, and physically) has placed a third head within thier marriage. Causing conflict for a wife who desires to totally support her husband, and a mother who emotionally can't release her son. put them together and you have division with inlaws. As Jesus seperates and divide the intentions of each seperation, it is up to us to reconize and recieve Christ's truth that has been layed bare that he can bring peace and wholeness to those situations in restore. The confusion of God’s word comes from his saying, my thoughts are not your thoughts neither are my ways your ways. Gods way of building and restoring comes from tearing down and dividing first. John 1:1,1:14 lets us know that Jesus is the word. as you connect to Hebrews 4:12-13, he lets us know the word is alive and active and divides as it sharper than any two edge sword. It further reads that during this division the thoughts and the intension of the heart are laid bare before the lord (paraphrazing). Christ being the living word has the authority to divide first and bring peace and wholeness later. Those of us in christ can bare witness to this because as we discovered the truth of christ, an automatic, unvaluntary seperation begin to occur around us from friends, family, and other things of the world. in families you see fathers induldging in the things of the world provoking children into anger, thus causing division. likewise we see children disobeying parents causing a sense of regret, thus division has occurred. The bible also declares that a man must leave his father and mother to be united with his wife. Men who have not completely left their mother’s covering, (financially, emotionally, and physically) has placed a third head within thier marriage. Causing conflict for a wife who desires to totally support her husband, and a mother who emotionally can’t release her son. put them together and you have division with inlaws. As
Jesus seperates and divide the intentions of each seperation, it is up to us to reconize and recieve Christ’s truth that has been layed bare that he can bring peace and wholeness to those situations in restore.

]]> By: dmsprice http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/02/jesus-on-peace-and-conflict/#comment-2388 dmsprice Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:41:01 +0000 http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=423#comment-2388 These are the types of readings that confuse me and frustrate me. For example, I don't like the whole notion of "fear the Lord" because - while I certainly should fear Him and the power he has - my Lord doesn't want me to fear him, but to love him and consider him a friend. Lately I've started thinking though that the reason for the different messages is that different people need different messages in order to understand them, learn from them and obey them. So my place is not to be frustrated, but to know that for someone somewhere that passage is proving to be valuable for someone a little less like me. These are the types of readings that confuse me and frustrate me. For example, I don’t like the whole notion of “fear the Lord” because – while I certainly should fear Him and the power he has – my Lord doesn’t want me to fear him, but to love him and consider him a friend. Lately I’ve started thinking though that the reason for the different messages is that different people need different messages in order to understand them, learn from them and obey them. So my place is not to be frustrated, but to know that for someone somewhere that passage is proving to be valuable for someone a little less like me.

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