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	<title>Comments on: Some What-ifs of Marriage</title>
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	<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/</link>
	<description>with Mart De Haan and Friends</description>
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		<title>By: Maureen</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-3735</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 23:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-3735</guid>
		<description>Not really, although can relate to CAW&#039;s issues.
Since I posted last there have been some changes in our lives as husband and wife, he still is not saved yet, but I see the hand of the Lord working in him, he has told me himself that he knows Jesus is speaking to him, he just won&#039;t take that final step of faith yet.
The drink has gone now, the Lord did remove it, he was diagnosed with diabetes and had to stop, Jesus has a 1,000 ways to answer every prayer.
Times are much better, he even goes to church with me twice a week.
I no longer have replushion for him, the Lord gave me His love to use, He changed me.
My prayer is &#039;Lord change me&#039; this turns situations around, and Jesus works through us, shaping and re-moulding.
I know my husband would make a great leader in our household when he is born again, until then I do not need to follow his leadership, as he doesn&#039;t try to be boss, and I follow Christ&#039;s leadership and He fills the need.
Just thought I&#039;d update my post.
Lordbless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really, although can relate to CAW&#8217;s issues.<br />
Since I posted last there have been some changes in our lives as husband and wife, he still is not saved yet, but I see the hand of the Lord working in him, he has told me himself that he knows Jesus is speaking to him, he just won&#8217;t take that final step of faith yet.<br />
The drink has gone now, the Lord did remove it, he was diagnosed with diabetes and had to stop, Jesus has a 1,000 ways to answer every prayer.<br />
Times are much better, he even goes to church with me twice a week.<br />
I no longer have replushion for him, the Lord gave me His love to use, He changed me.<br />
My prayer is &#8216;Lord change me&#8217; this turns situations around, and Jesus works through us, shaping and re-moulding.<br />
I know my husband would make a great leader in our household when he is born again, until then I do not need to follow his leadership, as he doesn&#8217;t try to be boss, and I follow Christ&#8217;s leadership and He fills the need.<br />
Just thought I&#8217;d update my post.<br />
Lordbless.</p>
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		<title>By: daisymarygoldr</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2780</link>
		<dc:creator>daisymarygoldr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2780</guid>
		<description>Maureen,
I’m assuming that you are addressing CAW’s issue…
Praying for you…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maureen,<br />
I’m assuming that you are addressing CAW’s issue…<br />
Praying for you…</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2779</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2779</guid>
		<description>daisymarygoldr 
I truly feel for you, dear sister in Christ.
I am far from in the perfect marraige myself, my husband does not belong to Christ, hence the reason for my last post. 
Between the drinking, and living seperate lives, his is social, mine is Christ, it now doesn&#039;t even seem like a marraige after 36yrs.
A few times I have left, been put out, then came back, suffered mental and verbal abuse, adultery, but I try to focus on Jesus, it is only by His strength can we get through.
I too have felt as you do, repulsed, but if it wasn&#039;t for our dear Lord, we&#039;d not make it for sure.
We can help each other also, holding each other up in prayer.
We are not alone, and the battle is not ours but the Lord&#039;d.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>daisymarygoldr<br />
I truly feel for you, dear sister in Christ.<br />
I am far from in the perfect marraige myself, my husband does not belong to Christ, hence the reason for my last post.<br />
Between the drinking, and living seperate lives, his is social, mine is Christ, it now doesn&#8217;t even seem like a marraige after 36yrs.<br />
A few times I have left, been put out, then came back, suffered mental and verbal abuse, adultery, but I try to focus on Jesus, it is only by His strength can we get through.<br />
I too have felt as you do, repulsed, but if it wasn&#8217;t for our dear Lord, we&#8217;d not make it for sure.<br />
We can help each other also, holding each other up in prayer.<br />
We are not alone, and the battle is not ours but the Lord&#8217;d.</p>
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		<title>By: Maureen</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2778</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2778</guid>
		<description>but what if the husband doesn&#039;t belong to Christ, he then is of his father the devil, as the Bible states in Ephesians 2 v 2 and John 8 v 44 he surely cannot be the head of his household, and lead others the same way, especially if the wife does belong to Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but what if the husband doesn&#8217;t belong to Christ, he then is of his father the devil, as the Bible states in Ephesians 2 v 2 and John 8 v 44 he surely cannot be the head of his household, and lead others the same way, especially if the wife does belong to Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Happy</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2722</link>
		<dc:creator>Happy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2722</guid>
		<description>I think that every woman deeply desires a man&#039;s leadership.  I&#039;m not talking about domineering control, but the gentle kindness that Christ displayed.  If a man loved his wife as Christ loves the church, there is not a woman on the face of this earth (who is in her right mind) who would not gladly submit to such leadership.  God made us women with two deep desires:  security and affection.  If a man steps up to the plate and takes his role as the spiritual head of the house, if he daily seeks God for wisdom, if he seeks wisdom in the finances of his home, THEN a woman feels secure.  Then she wants and needs his affection.  If he attempts to show his wife physical affection but he has not provided her the security she so desparately needs, his attempts will be repulsive to his wife.  No woman wants to &#039;wear the pants&#039; in the family.  God didn&#039;t make us that way.  Women need to feel loved and protected.  That&#039;s about as simple as it gets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that every woman deeply desires a man&#8217;s leadership.  I&#8217;m not talking about domineering control, but the gentle kindness that Christ displayed.  If a man loved his wife as Christ loves the church, there is not a woman on the face of this earth (who is in her right mind) who would not gladly submit to such leadership.  God made us women with two deep desires:  security and affection.  If a man steps up to the plate and takes his role as the spiritual head of the house, if he daily seeks God for wisdom, if he seeks wisdom in the finances of his home, THEN a woman feels secure.  Then she wants and needs his affection.  If he attempts to show his wife physical affection but he has not provided her the security she so desparately needs, his attempts will be repulsive to his wife.  No woman wants to &#8216;wear the pants&#8217; in the family.  God didn&#8217;t make us that way.  Women need to feel loved and protected.  That&#8217;s about as simple as it gets.</p>
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		<title>By: annamarie</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2699</link>
		<dc:creator>annamarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2699</guid>
		<description>This has been an interesting discussion and one that is worthy of our attention.  We (women) tend to focus our attention on what effect a paternalistic society, particularly within marriage, has had on us.  However as a wife of a wonderful man and mother to a grown adult son I can&#039;t ignore the pressure that history and society has obviously placed upon Christian Men.  My husband and I have been married a long time.  In the early years he truly believed that if he didn&#039;t &quot;rule&quot; over me and ensure that I submitted to his rule, somehow he had failed as a man of God.  Those were difficult and painful years for both of us.

With maturity, prayer, and an enduring commitment to work hard on our relationship, we have both come to the realization that this marriage belongs to the two of us.  As creations of our heavenly Father, we both have responsibilities to submit to each other and to God and to lead each other in areas where our gifts are obvious.  Did God not bring us together to complete and strengthen each other?  Separate we are individuals with various strengths and weaknesses.  Together we complete each other.  What a blessing!  I can&#039;t say enough how great a blessing this marriage has been.  My prayer is that our son, now 27 years old, is equally blessed when he finds the one who will &quot;complete him&quot;.  

Annamarie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been an interesting discussion and one that is worthy of our attention.  We (women) tend to focus our attention on what effect a paternalistic society, particularly within marriage, has had on us.  However as a wife of a wonderful man and mother to a grown adult son I can&#8217;t ignore the pressure that history and society has obviously placed upon Christian Men.  My husband and I have been married a long time.  In the early years he truly believed that if he didn&#8217;t &#8220;rule&#8221; over me and ensure that I submitted to his rule, somehow he had failed as a man of God.  Those were difficult and painful years for both of us.</p>
<p>With maturity, prayer, and an enduring commitment to work hard on our relationship, we have both come to the realization that this marriage belongs to the two of us.  As creations of our heavenly Father, we both have responsibilities to submit to each other and to God and to lead each other in areas where our gifts are obvious.  Did God not bring us together to complete and strengthen each other?  Separate we are individuals with various strengths and weaknesses.  Together we complete each other.  What a blessing!  I can&#8217;t say enough how great a blessing this marriage has been.  My prayer is that our son, now 27 years old, is equally blessed when he finds the one who will &#8220;complete him&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Annamarie</p>
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		<title>By: WalkingInHisLight</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2693</link>
		<dc:creator>WalkingInHisLight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2693</guid>
		<description>CAW, 

First, BIG HUG to you.  I can feel your pain, and I&#039;m sure you are receiving prayer from many on this board even as I type. 

Let me encourage you to not feel responsible for whether your husband goes to church or not.  God has not abandoned you, and is not judging your marriage based on your husband&#039;s church attendance.  Many wives have seen this same situation, and the first, most constructive step seems to be to let God handle this.  It could be that God is using this situation to work in his life, or is bringing about change in both of your lives.  As long as you carry this burden, you will be miserable.

I personally would not go to a counsellor, but instead to seek the advice of Christian women that you have known to be wise, discrete and more experienced.  Has your husband expressly forbidden you to attend a church?  If so, find ways to meet with Christian women, not so much to pray for your husband to change, but to fill the need for fellowship.  If he has not, consider finding a good church where you can worship God and refresh your spirit and build fellowship with Christian women.  Reach out to God every morning, even if it&#039;s just a quick, sincere &quot;Lord, show me your path and fill me with your joy.&quot;  

Two things I would expressly not do:  Do not speak disparagingly of your husband, and don&#039;t compare him to other men at church.  Your negative perception will cloud you from seeing God in your husband, and the men at church are often just as messed up as men outside of the church.  A different man is not the path to peace.    

Yes, I&#039;ve felt trapped, but I have often realized the trap was of my own making.  The solution was to let go of the trappings, and let God handle the big responsibilities that weighed me down.  Again, BIG HUG.  I will be keeping you in my prayers, and I&#039;m sure many others will as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CAW, </p>
<p>First, BIG HUG to you.  I can feel your pain, and I&#8217;m sure you are receiving prayer from many on this board even as I type. </p>
<p>Let me encourage you to not feel responsible for whether your husband goes to church or not.  God has not abandoned you, and is not judging your marriage based on your husband&#8217;s church attendance.  Many wives have seen this same situation, and the first, most constructive step seems to be to let God handle this.  It could be that God is using this situation to work in his life, or is bringing about change in both of your lives.  As long as you carry this burden, you will be miserable.</p>
<p>I personally would not go to a counsellor, but instead to seek the advice of Christian women that you have known to be wise, discrete and more experienced.  Has your husband expressly forbidden you to attend a church?  If so, find ways to meet with Christian women, not so much to pray for your husband to change, but to fill the need for fellowship.  If he has not, consider finding a good church where you can worship God and refresh your spirit and build fellowship with Christian women.  Reach out to God every morning, even if it&#8217;s just a quick, sincere &#8220;Lord, show me your path and fill me with your joy.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Two things I would expressly not do:  Do not speak disparagingly of your husband, and don&#8217;t compare him to other men at church.  Your negative perception will cloud you from seeing God in your husband, and the men at church are often just as messed up as men outside of the church.  A different man is not the path to peace.    </p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;ve felt trapped, but I have often realized the trap was of my own making.  The solution was to let go of the trappings, and let God handle the big responsibilities that weighed me down.  Again, BIG HUG.  I will be keeping you in my prayers, and I&#8217;m sure many others will as well.</p>
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		<title>By: WalkingInHisLight</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2691</link>
		<dc:creator>WalkingInHisLight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2691</guid>
		<description>Wow.

First, Mart, thanks for being willing to address such a relevant, powerful and challenging topic.  

My first few years of marriage helped me to realize how I live by expectation.  I came from a strong Christian family, had great examples of leadership from both parents, and thought that if I married a good Christian man, this would all just fall into place.  How little I understood my own sin!  

After many angry days, I finally caught a glimpse of the end game.  My marriage was meant to be used by God to address both of our sins, and that God had equipped both of us with the gifts HE chose, not the gifts I expected.  God knew where we both needed to grow, and gave the other the appropriate gifts to work toward that end.  

I have learned that, just as submission to God requires me to still step up to the plate, submission to my husband requires me to step up to the plate.  Just as submission to God means trusting his leadership, I am learning to trust my husband&#039;s leadership and to follow my husband in faith, knowing God will not abandon me.  I am also learning to be grateful for the gifts God has given my husband, and to relinquish my resentment that God has made my husband in his image, not the image I anticipated.

God has worked in ways I would never have anticipated.  I&#039;ve learned that my husband has gifts that are far more important to me than the ability to make more money than I do.  When my heart is wrenched apart, he knows how to encourage me.  When my path looks huge and looming, he helps me to think through my steps and let go of my fears.  I fill my life with far too many expectations and obligations.  My husbands helps me to simplify and rethink.  I tend to see the earthly needs, while he sees the heart of God.  

I loved the passage that was in today&#039;s &quot;My Daily Bread&quot; - Hebrews 11:8-16.  The passage discuss Abraham and Sarah&#039;s understanding that they needed to &quot;wait for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.&quot;  

The closing is so appropiate.  &quot;But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country.  Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.&quot;  God is using my marriage to cause us to repent of our sinful nature and make us more like Him, thereby bringing us closer to that heavenly country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.</p>
<p>First, Mart, thanks for being willing to address such a relevant, powerful and challenging topic.  </p>
<p>My first few years of marriage helped me to realize how I live by expectation.  I came from a strong Christian family, had great examples of leadership from both parents, and thought that if I married a good Christian man, this would all just fall into place.  How little I understood my own sin!  </p>
<p>After many angry days, I finally caught a glimpse of the end game.  My marriage was meant to be used by God to address both of our sins, and that God had equipped both of us with the gifts HE chose, not the gifts I expected.  God knew where we both needed to grow, and gave the other the appropriate gifts to work toward that end.  </p>
<p>I have learned that, just as submission to God requires me to still step up to the plate, submission to my husband requires me to step up to the plate.  Just as submission to God means trusting his leadership, I am learning to trust my husband&#8217;s leadership and to follow my husband in faith, knowing God will not abandon me.  I am also learning to be grateful for the gifts God has given my husband, and to relinquish my resentment that God has made my husband in his image, not the image I anticipated.</p>
<p>God has worked in ways I would never have anticipated.  I&#8217;ve learned that my husband has gifts that are far more important to me than the ability to make more money than I do.  When my heart is wrenched apart, he knows how to encourage me.  When my path looks huge and looming, he helps me to think through my steps and let go of my fears.  I fill my life with far too many expectations and obligations.  My husbands helps me to simplify and rethink.  I tend to see the earthly needs, while he sees the heart of God.  </p>
<p>I loved the passage that was in today&#8217;s &#8220;My Daily Bread&#8221; &#8211; Hebrews 11:8-16.  The passage discuss Abraham and Sarah&#8217;s understanding that they needed to &#8220;wait for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.&#8221;  </p>
<p>The closing is so appropiate.  &#8220;But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country.  Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.&#8221;  God is using my marriage to cause us to repent of our sinful nature and make us more like Him, thereby bringing us closer to that heavenly country.</p>
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		<title>By: CAW</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2687</link>
		<dc:creator>CAW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2687</guid>
		<description>So what if for unknown reasons you have lost your feelings for your husband and almost feel repelled by him, he no longer wants to attend church because of the politics involved, and he refuses to pay for some &quot;quack&quot; to counsel us?  Then what...do what the Bible says and stick with your man no matter what, pretending all is normal to those around me....or seek counseling myself and watch what happens when we get the bill?  have you ever felt trapped?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what if for unknown reasons you have lost your feelings for your husband and almost feel repelled by him, he no longer wants to attend church because of the politics involved, and he refuses to pay for some &#8220;quack&#8221; to counsel us?  Then what&#8230;do what the Bible says and stick with your man no matter what, pretending all is normal to those around me&#8230;.or seek counseling myself and watch what happens when we get the bill?  have you ever felt trapped?</p>
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		<title>By: deborahserenade</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/05/some-what-ifs-of-marriage/#comment-2500</link>
		<dc:creator>deborahserenade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=151#comment-2500</guid>
		<description>Dear Mart,
I was encouraged very much by this particular blog.
I come from a home where I was taught to respect and accept the husband as the head of the family. I recently got married,(you have arranged marriages here) little knowing that I would turn out to be the bread winner. This aspect of being in the position of control was new and disturbing to me and I had plenty of doubts about myself - am I being to bossy in deciding the budget and making monetory decisions for the family.
I thank God and you for this article &quot;What-Ifs&quot; - its helped me see Deborah from a different light and has brought me comfort - that it is NOT WRONG for the woman to take lead.
Thankyou so much and God Bless!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mart,<br />
I was encouraged very much by this particular blog.<br />
I come from a home where I was taught to respect and accept the husband as the head of the family. I recently got married,(you have arranged marriages here) little knowing that I would turn out to be the bread winner. This aspect of being in the position of control was new and disturbing to me and I had plenty of doubts about myself &#8211; am I being to bossy in deciding the budget and making monetory decisions for the family.<br />
I thank God and you for this article &#8220;What-Ifs&#8221; &#8211; its helped me see Deborah from a different light and has brought me comfort &#8211; that it is NOT WRONG for the woman to take lead.<br />
Thankyou so much and God Bless!</p>
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