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	<title>Comments on: Are There Times to Lovingly Withhold Forgiveness?</title>
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	<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/</link>
	<description>with Mart De Haan and Friends</description>
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		<title>By: balesgen</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2910</link>
		<dc:creator>balesgen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 03:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2910</guid>
		<description>we should forgive people right away because Jesus forgave us of so much. so what right do we have to not forgive someone ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we should forgive people right away because Jesus forgave us of so much. so what right do we have to not forgive someone ?</p>
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		<title>By: RAM</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2890</link>
		<dc:creator>RAM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2890</guid>
		<description>Bitterness only contaminates the vessel in which it is contained.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bitterness only contaminates the vessel in which it is contained.</p>
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		<title>By: Justthinking</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2885</link>
		<dc:creator>Justthinking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 05:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2885</guid>
		<description>I have had to deal with this dilemma many times and have always struggled with what is Christ asking me to do. What I have settled on as the answer to the question is closely related to what Christ did, I think. He stood ready always to forgive unconditionally the sin, but the receiver of the forgiveness had to realize his own need for forgiveness before it could become a reality to him, as soon as he did, and acknowledged it, it was given freely.  This is what I believe is asked of us, because of the need of the person needing the forgiveness is of utmost importance to his own peace with God, it is a loving act to wait to give the gift of forgiveness when the person realizes he/she needs it. I don&#039;t think Christ wants us to live in ignorance of our sins against others by people excusing, or letting us off the hook for the sake of &quot;fake peace&quot;.Although we can hold our peace and act lovingly to people who have hurt us, it still should be confronted at some place in time for the sake of the person who sinned against us as well as for the sake of the person sinned against.
I think Christ played this out many times in Scripture when he asked pertinent questions to people pertaining to their understanding of their need of the Truth about him and about themselves. Justthinking....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had to deal with this dilemma many times and have always struggled with what is Christ asking me to do. What I have settled on as the answer to the question is closely related to what Christ did, I think. He stood ready always to forgive unconditionally the sin, but the receiver of the forgiveness had to realize his own need for forgiveness before it could become a reality to him, as soon as he did, and acknowledged it, it was given freely.  This is what I believe is asked of us, because of the need of the person needing the forgiveness is of utmost importance to his own peace with God, it is a loving act to wait to give the gift of forgiveness when the person realizes he/she needs it. I don&#8217;t think Christ wants us to live in ignorance of our sins against others by people excusing, or letting us off the hook for the sake of &#8220;fake peace&#8221;.Although we can hold our peace and act lovingly to people who have hurt us, it still should be confronted at some place in time for the sake of the person who sinned against us as well as for the sake of the person sinned against.<br />
I think Christ played this out many times in Scripture when he asked pertinent questions to people pertaining to their understanding of their need of the Truth about him and about themselves. Justthinking&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: graceus</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2880</link>
		<dc:creator>graceus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 21:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2880</guid>
		<description>Mart, I appreiate your message noted in todays Our Daily Bread, &quot;The Chain of Ungrace&quot;, from Matthew 6.  Lest we forget, we are not the judge &amp; jury, though some of us may in fact be appointed such in our worldly walk of wisdom in this life.  Striving to be more like Jesus than the sinful nature we have all born into is indeed challenging.  Learning to understand what scripture has prescribed for us, as well as learning to to be receptive to be led by our Holy Spirit in our daily walk, proves to be a significant factor in our new lives as maturing Christians.  With all of the subjective opinions offered on your aforermentioned question, might we find more truth in God&#039;s revelation by testing our concerns with His written word as it&#039;s been inspired in scripture for us?  Is not our faith in Christ in question when we begin laying down our own agenda as to what we say we&#039;ll tolerate in others, &amp; that which we won&#039;t?  What sets us apart from the worldly wise-men; is it not what Jesus calls us into?  I appreciate your noting these 3-pragmatic reasons for forgiving, as  they are indeed what Mat 6:14,15 reveal so clearly.  Might we be more considerate of Christ&#039;s compassion for our (all men &amp; women)changed hearts as He was led by His persecuters to the cross?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mart, I appreiate your message noted in todays Our Daily Bread, &#8220;The Chain of Ungrace&#8221;, from Matthew 6.  Lest we forget, we are not the judge &amp; jury, though some of us may in fact be appointed such in our worldly walk of wisdom in this life.  Striving to be more like Jesus than the sinful nature we have all born into is indeed challenging.  Learning to understand what scripture has prescribed for us, as well as learning to to be receptive to be led by our Holy Spirit in our daily walk, proves to be a significant factor in our new lives as maturing Christians.  With all of the subjective opinions offered on your aforermentioned question, might we find more truth in God&#8217;s revelation by testing our concerns with His written word as it&#8217;s been inspired in scripture for us?  Is not our faith in Christ in question when we begin laying down our own agenda as to what we say we&#8217;ll tolerate in others, &amp; that which we won&#8217;t?  What sets us apart from the worldly wise-men; is it not what Jesus calls us into?  I appreciate your noting these 3-pragmatic reasons for forgiving, as  they are indeed what Mat 6:14,15 reveal so clearly.  Might we be more considerate of Christ&#8217;s compassion for our (all men &amp; women)changed hearts as He was led by His persecuters to the cross?</p>
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		<title>By: KT</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2871</link>
		<dc:creator>KT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2871</guid>
		<description>Are you equating withholding forgiveness with abstaining from fellowship? I see Scriptural bases for refraining from fellowship with an unrepentant soul but no bases for failure to forgive. I believe our Father commands us to forgive always but for the sake of the unrepentant one and in an effort to help them see the error of their ways, withholding fellowship may be the most loving thing we can do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you equating withholding forgiveness with abstaining from fellowship? I see Scriptural bases for refraining from fellowship with an unrepentant soul but no bases for failure to forgive. I believe our Father commands us to forgive always but for the sake of the unrepentant one and in an effort to help them see the error of their ways, withholding fellowship may be the most loving thing we can do.</p>
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		<title>By: Happy</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2866</link>
		<dc:creator>Happy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 05:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2866</guid>
		<description>Forgiveness!  How we all struggle with that word!  I&#039;m 64 years old now, and I&#039;ve lived long enough to have experienced many painful situations in which the offending party never apoligized.  I think most of us can handle those situations, even the very difficult ones, in which the other person comes to us repentant and sorrowful for their offense and seeks our forgiveness.  But how do we handle the ones in which the other person has no feelings of remorse?  As Christians we cannot afford bitterness, resentment, and hatred.  These are like cancers to the soul.  satan laughs at us when he can infect us with such soul-destroying poisons.  How then can we cope?  I believe that the only way I have successfully handled such hurts is by giving them to the Lord in prayer.  When we learn to pray back Scripture to God, there is an incredibly liberating cleansing that floods our spirits.  When I&#039;m deeply hurt, I pray, &quot;Father, You see all that has been done.  You know every heart and every motive.  I thank You that You are Sovereign over my life.  I thank You that whatever You have allowed to come into my life is for the purpose of transforming me into the likeness of my Savior and Lord Jesus Christ.  Thank You that You have said, &#039;To Me belongeth vengeance and recompense.  Their foot shall slide in due time, for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that come upon them make haste.&#039; (Deuteronomy 32.35) It is not up to me, Lord, to even the score.  I pray that You deal with them in such a way that they will realize their wrong and their need for Jesus Christ.&quot;  Does forgiveness mean that we have to run to the offender, embrace them, and tell them that it doesn&#039;t matter?  No, I think not.  Sometimes we have to pray over and over each time the offense with all its surrounding hurts come to mind.  But God WILL liberate us from hatred and bitterness as we pray for our offenders.  We do not have to associate with those who are unrepentant and continue to hurt us, but we do have to commit it all to God in prayer (sometimes many times) so that we ourselves won&#039;t be infected by the poisons of hatred.  May God help us all in this area!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgiveness!  How we all struggle with that word!  I&#8217;m 64 years old now, and I&#8217;ve lived long enough to have experienced many painful situations in which the offending party never apoligized.  I think most of us can handle those situations, even the very difficult ones, in which the other person comes to us repentant and sorrowful for their offense and seeks our forgiveness.  But how do we handle the ones in which the other person has no feelings of remorse?  As Christians we cannot afford bitterness, resentment, and hatred.  These are like cancers to the soul.  satan laughs at us when he can infect us with such soul-destroying poisons.  How then can we cope?  I believe that the only way I have successfully handled such hurts is by giving them to the Lord in prayer.  When we learn to pray back Scripture to God, there is an incredibly liberating cleansing that floods our spirits.  When I&#8217;m deeply hurt, I pray, &#8220;Father, You see all that has been done.  You know every heart and every motive.  I thank You that You are Sovereign over my life.  I thank You that whatever You have allowed to come into my life is for the purpose of transforming me into the likeness of my Savior and Lord Jesus Christ.  Thank You that You have said, &#8216;To Me belongeth vengeance and recompense.  Their foot shall slide in due time, for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that come upon them make haste.&#8217; (Deuteronomy 32.35) It is not up to me, Lord, to even the score.  I pray that You deal with them in such a way that they will realize their wrong and their need for Jesus Christ.&#8221;  Does forgiveness mean that we have to run to the offender, embrace them, and tell them that it doesn&#8217;t matter?  No, I think not.  Sometimes we have to pray over and over each time the offense with all its surrounding hurts come to mind.  But God WILL liberate us from hatred and bitterness as we pray for our offenders.  We do not have to associate with those who are unrepentant and continue to hurt us, but we do have to commit it all to God in prayer (sometimes many times) so that we ourselves won&#8217;t be infected by the poisons of hatred.  May God help us all in this area!</p>
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		<title>By: gwenevans</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2858</link>
		<dc:creator>gwenevans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2858</guid>
		<description>When I was a new believer, I thought I didn&#039;t have to forgive someone unless they apologized to me and that it was okay with God, that I would not be held accountable for my actions because they were not confessing and repenting.  Not so.  With my unforgiveness came feelings of anger and resentment towards the one who I would not forgive.  I knew that it wasn&#039;t right to feel this way.  I was saved!  I had the Holy Spirit living in me and through me!  So I was indeed being held accountable for my unforgiveness.  That&#039;s the way God planned it.  He made us to be miserable if we don&#039;t forgive.  Especially believers!  That&#039;s what the Holy Spirit is for!  At least that&#039;s the way it is for me.  And I thank God for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was a new believer, I thought I didn&#8217;t have to forgive someone unless they apologized to me and that it was okay with God, that I would not be held accountable for my actions because they were not confessing and repenting.  Not so.  With my unforgiveness came feelings of anger and resentment towards the one who I would not forgive.  I knew that it wasn&#8217;t right to feel this way.  I was saved!  I had the Holy Spirit living in me and through me!  So I was indeed being held accountable for my unforgiveness.  That&#8217;s the way God planned it.  He made us to be miserable if we don&#8217;t forgive.  Especially believers!  That&#8217;s what the Holy Spirit is for!  At least that&#8217;s the way it is for me.  And I thank God for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2856</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 20:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2856</guid>
		<description>Forgiveness is at the heart of the gospel, but salvation is not one sided.  If we repent of our sins, God in his infinite grace forgives us.  As much as God loves us all, without repentance, there is no forgiveness and no salvation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgiveness is at the heart of the gospel, but salvation is not one sided.  If we repent of our sins, God in his infinite grace forgives us.  As much as God loves us all, without repentance, there is no forgiveness and no salvation.</p>
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		<title>By: lisacrum</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2852</link>
		<dc:creator>lisacrum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2852</guid>
		<description>...Plus, even as children of God, we can set conditions for which someone must adhere before we open a door of relationship to him/her.  We freely do that when we&#039;re screening others for potential friendship and companionship (and even business relationships), yet we seem reluctant to express a need for establishing boundaries after we&#039;ve already got someone in our lives. 

It&#039;s possible to love someone unconditionally but still place restrictions on how the extent to which you allow that person to be involved in your life.  There&#039;s a big difference between showing basic human kindness to people and letting others run over us.  

Sometimes we have to set a permanent distance between ourselves and the person who has wronged us...perhaps it&#039;s a situation of rape, incest, etc.  You&#039;re not going to let Uncle Charlie babysit your children if he&#039;s been finally released from prison after molesting you years before.  You can have forgiven him in your heart, be healed from the damage, but you do not have to prove your forgiveness by allowing him the potential to go back and commit that crime.  Doesn&#039;t mean that you hate Uncle Charlie, doesn&#039;t mean you don&#039;t pray for him, but you&#039;ve mandated accountability for his actions.  That mandated accountability, that boundary in your relationship, is not a product of unforgiveness...it&#039;s a consequence of his actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;Plus, even as children of God, we can set conditions for which someone must adhere before we open a door of relationship to him/her.  We freely do that when we&#8217;re screening others for potential friendship and companionship (and even business relationships), yet we seem reluctant to express a need for establishing boundaries after we&#8217;ve already got someone in our lives. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s possible to love someone unconditionally but still place restrictions on how the extent to which you allow that person to be involved in your life.  There&#8217;s a big difference between showing basic human kindness to people and letting others run over us.  </p>
<p>Sometimes we have to set a permanent distance between ourselves and the person who has wronged us&#8230;perhaps it&#8217;s a situation of rape, incest, etc.  You&#8217;re not going to let Uncle Charlie babysit your children if he&#8217;s been finally released from prison after molesting you years before.  You can have forgiven him in your heart, be healed from the damage, but you do not have to prove your forgiveness by allowing him the potential to go back and commit that crime.  Doesn&#8217;t mean that you hate Uncle Charlie, doesn&#8217;t mean you don&#8217;t pray for him, but you&#8217;ve mandated accountability for his actions.  That mandated accountability, that boundary in your relationship, is not a product of unforgiveness&#8230;it&#8217;s a consequence of his actions.</p>
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		<title>By: lisacrum</title>
		<link>http://www.beenthinking.org/2008/09/17/are-there-times-to-lovingly-withhold-forgiveness/#comment-2851</link>
		<dc:creator>lisacrum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beenthinking.org/?p=919#comment-2851</guid>
		<description>I believe I understand exactly where you&#039;re coming from, Mart.  It&#039;s not so much a withholding of forgiveness as it is an issue of mandated accountability.  We can release someone from hurts in our past, but at the same time we can step away from the line of fire that has given them free reign to abuse us or take advantage of us...that&#039;s not unforgiveness!  As a matter of fact, sometimes distancing oneself from the abuse enables us to finally begin the healing and forgiveness process...plus it shifts the action back to the offending person to acknowledge his/her wrong. Whether they own up to their misdeeds may determine whether there is a relationship in the future, but at least this allows wounds to begin to heal.  And as always, forgiveness is most needed by the one doing the forgiving...for closure and for a right conscience before God.  

I like to think of it this way...when we sin, we get forgiveness from our Heavenly Father as soon as we confess and repent.  However, there are certain consequences set in motion because of that sin, which may or may not go away no matter how repentent and changed we are.  It has nothing to do with God&#039;s forgiveness.  

Still, we should always be very humble before God in matters where it is in our power to bind and loose.  The God who gives us the ability to choose also knows our most secret motives, sometimes even better than we know them ourselves.  We should be resolved in our heart to, regardless of our own personal feelings, strive to please the Lord.  I believe He can give us wisdom to know the difference and the grace to act on what He reveals to us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe I understand exactly where you&#8217;re coming from, Mart.  It&#8217;s not so much a withholding of forgiveness as it is an issue of mandated accountability.  We can release someone from hurts in our past, but at the same time we can step away from the line of fire that has given them free reign to abuse us or take advantage of us&#8230;that&#8217;s not unforgiveness!  As a matter of fact, sometimes distancing oneself from the abuse enables us to finally begin the healing and forgiveness process&#8230;plus it shifts the action back to the offending person to acknowledge his/her wrong. Whether they own up to their misdeeds may determine whether there is a relationship in the future, but at least this allows wounds to begin to heal.  And as always, forgiveness is most needed by the one doing the forgiving&#8230;for closure and for a right conscience before God.  </p>
<p>I like to think of it this way&#8230;when we sin, we get forgiveness from our Heavenly Father as soon as we confess and repent.  However, there are certain consequences set in motion because of that sin, which may or may not go away no matter how repentent and changed we are.  It has nothing to do with God&#8217;s forgiveness.  </p>
<p>Still, we should always be very humble before God in matters where it is in our power to bind and loose.  The God who gives us the ability to choose also knows our most secret motives, sometimes even better than we know them ourselves.  We should be resolved in our heart to, regardless of our own personal feelings, strive to please the Lord.  I believe He can give us wisdom to know the difference and the grace to act on what He reveals to us.</p>
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