So we parted with an immense gap between us.

My question is, how can we as Christians be one in Christ, when we have such differences in what we have to DO?

Paul humbly wrote about himself as one who was “born out of due time” “the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.” He also calls himself as the “chief of sinners”…hence he cannot be compared with Christ who knew no sin. In 1Cor 1, Paul urges the Corinthians to follow Christ who was crucified and not Paul, Apollos or Peter.

Paul was not widely accepted even back then and Peter writes: “This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction. (2 Peter 3: 15-16)…maybe your friend has a problem with accepting some of Paul’s teachings…

I have accepted Jesus as my lord and savior and have learned some interesting things from reading this line today. Thanks so much for sharing.

I agreed with chfranke, even though you may have tried to clarify.

There is no question for me that Paul is “central and consistent with the purposes and mission of Jesus”, as you said. Maybe your friend agrees with that too.

However, from what you have given us, it seems that your friend finds more “comfort” in the authorship of the Torah as being fresher from GOD, than Paul’s writings, which are letters/epistles. That “comfort” should not be cause for argument; it’s more a matter of individual preference or perspective, which can be discussed and debated some more.

Also too, you seem to imply that you do not believe that “Paul never meant to take followers of Jesus out from under the Law of Moses”. This, I believe, is the source of your disagreement with your friend. Clearly, your friend distinguishes between rabbinic law and the Law of Moses (10 commandments).

Remember, Paul was not part of the Acts 15 decision, except indirectly.

Mart, For several years now I have been blessed by RBC ministries. The greatest gift your little booklets and commentaries have been to me is conformation. I sometimes need reasurance that what I know is also believed by others. I may already feel very confident in what I think. But it just helps to hear it or read it from people I respect or admire.

If it helps you at all, let me say I agree with your attitude concerning the teachings of Paul. I cannot even begin to understand how a person can seperate the whole of the New Testament and only base Christian faith on the Torah. It sounds as though he has also seperated most of the Old Testament from what he chooses to focus on.

You also stated “a growing number of people” are thinking this way. I gotta tell you Mart you meet some strange people.

This is what happens when people refuse to be taught…Oh that’s right,that is a quote from Proverbs, I wouldn’t suppose that friend of your’s has spent too much time focusing on that either.

Your Other Friend,
Steve

It seems the rest of the OT was like the teen years when a parent says I know what is best for you but you have to make your own decisions. Some followed their parent as best they could while other said that the peers around them had it better and wanted to follow their practices and customs. God let them while sending prophets and angels to relay messages that God is still wanting you back. Like a lover pursuing the one loved and letting them know that all God wanted was for them to put Him first and treat each other and themselves with the same love God felt for them.

Then the new testament was the great aha of adulthood when everything is brought together and some achieved maturity while others still wanted to remain uninformed and child like. If one accepts the deity of who Christ is and chooses to be led by the Spirit of God, then the argument is simple yet again as it always has been. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and with all the strength you can humanly muster and treat others with the same love you have been shown. We are unable to follow all the rules all the time that is why Christ died on the cross and with the same forgiveness we have received give it to others. Paul showed that in his life.

We are not to follow Paul we are to follow God just the same way that He wanted us to in the OT. Nothing different He is the same in the OT and NT. Obviously we are the same too different peers but still human doing the same things in a different time. While we argue over doctrines, the emerging church and who to follow, we have been given the same mission as before. There are people out there that do not realize that there is a God who loves them soooo very much that He took on human form and died on the cross for our wrong doings which are called sins. That he wants a relationship with us and wants to help the broken hearted, sick, lonely and the unlovely. Gosh what is so hard about that?

When we have faith it shows in what we do for the lest of these which is all human beings. It is so neat when you do these things that is when God reveals more of Himself to us and these arguments will pass away and all that will remain is faith, hope and most of all LOVE.

Thanks for a great post. This really is a major issue that has troubled the church since its founding. It seems pretty clear from the decision of the early church you refer to in Acts 15 that the Law was clearly not for the gentile church. Peter’s reference to Paul’s writing as scripture also make it hard to disregard his writings. Might I suggest that John’s letters also support Paul’s perspective on the Law?

Jesus fulfilled the Law, we do not and cannot. John’s perspective is that there is a new Law, the Law of Love. What we do now is based not on the Law that we try to follow to fulfill righteousness, but on love that grows out of a relationship we have with Jesus.

This ought to be the basis for all of our decisions and actions toward God and toward one another. If I love God I will worship only Him, and do the things that please Him. If I love my brothers, sisters, neighbors and enemies I will do what is beneficial for them. I will not take advantage of their goods (steal from them), take advantage of their emotional or physical weakness (manipulate or seduce them). I will love them as I love myself.

I find the story of the rich young man compelling in such a discussion. He did all the right things (or thought he did) growing up according to the Law, yet still knew he lacked eternal life. Yet he failed to love the Lord with all his heart, soul, strength and mind. If he had gone and sold all his things and followed Jesus as if following a rule, without a change in heart, it would have been the same. Jesus was just showing him where his idol was. The Law brings no life, Love does. So I think John agrees with Paul, who agrees with Jesus.

The challenge in doing theology at this practical level seems to be to seek understanding of each writer that builds a consistent understanding of the whole of Scripture (OT and NT), whereby we gain a deeper understanding of the depth of God, His character and His love. Many through history have tried to disregard this biblical writer or that, which in the end keeps us from being able to move closer to the whole counsel of God.

Thanks again.

Barry

At the same time, I’m not trying to hide any of his argument. I’m more interested at this point in explaining why I think Paul is so central and consistent with the purposes and mission of Jesus.