Are your there? My dear brother, please don’t despair. You are not alone. Sometimes we feel like we are, but God is always here with us. May you Take some comfort in these Scriptures that follow:

Jeremiah 29: 11
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Matthew 11: 28-30
28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Please come join us on Been Thinking About. I don’t know how you got to this page, as it is from Dec.1, 2008, although you posted just 3 days ago, on May 2, 2009. If you found the site on a search and bookmarked it with the /subject of the blog, it will take you back to this old page each time. Just go to beenthinking org, or use the calendar at the top right side of this page, and click to May, and it will take you to the current conversation that is going on. Please come join us. Everyone here shares and listens, and prays for each other. You will be welcomed with much love.

I will be keeping you and your family, in loving prayer to the Lord.

When I entered into this marriage I was in conflict with myself. I wanted to do right by my unborn son and by her, but at the same time my enter voice spoke loud against it. For years I leave the home to go to work only to return to a home that is dirtier that it was when I left. For years my wife didn’t work. As I approached the door of my home I can smell nothing in the kitchen. So, I peep in through the window, the kids are running around playing and she is seating on the couch, in her underwear no bra watching TV. One day I found myself in the closet seating in the dark with the door close wondering how my life came to this. I had a very stressful job (technical support). I hated to leave the house to go to work and hated to leave work to come home. You see I didn’t go to the bar or hangout with friends after work. I didn’t have friends for I was ashamed of condition my home is in. I brought every penny I earned home and when I spent any money on myself to buy a pair of shoes or clothing I felt guilty that I wasn’t spending it on my kids. She learned one day that her brother and sister-in-law were renewing their vows. As soon as she ask, I quickly replied – “No, and if I can ever get out of this marriage I will never enter another.” She giggled and replied, “Why, I have treated you so bad?” At that time we only had two kids, and I made a mistake of letting her know that as soon as they leave the nest I will also follow. Shortly after that her birth control piles all of sudden fail to work and we are having another child.

I’m in a marriage where my spouse is putting me down on everything thing I try to do and she does it in such a jokingly way that the kids join in with her. One of my daughters as she gotten older caught onto what her mother was doing. One day I came home, my wife had a big bump on her head and my daughter was across the street. The neighbors was tending to her, my wife had sink your teeth into her breast so deep that each tooth broke skin. My daughter lives with that scare today. My daughter’s still live with me. When I filed for divorce, my wife jump into be more apart of my youngest daughter life. My wife even stated that our youngest move out with her. I am also being told that there is not a judge that will give primary custody of child to a father unless he can proved the mother is on drugs or abusive. Since there is no police record of valance in the home and she not on drugs I’m out of luck. Yes! I am being told that a mother can leave the home, does what ever she want with whom ever she wants and still gain primary custody of the child that she left in the care of the father. I am also support my other daughter through college. I’m tired.

I’m told that I’m doing the right thing and that God has someone out there for me. But, I am struggle with that question again, “”What does a woman bring to the table in a marriage?” Or “What is her role in a marriage?” Old school states that the father is the provider, the bread winner, and the mother is the nurturer. Today’s reality, those basic roles in some households have flipped with great success. Why one relationship fail and another is abundantly successful? Unfortunately I cannot speak from the perspective of a successful marriage. But, I can speak from that of a failed one.

I went into this marriage thinking that everyone wanted what I wanted, the “American Dream” and was willing to work hard to obtain it. I was wrong, so wrong. Then after realizing I made a mistake, I told myself that I’m going to have to live with it the best I can one day at a time for the sake of my child. Ok! Now how can I motivate my wife to be a productive member of this team? How can I mold her into the person that I need in my life? As you can see my mistake were pilling up one after another getting bigger and bigger. I married in my early twenties, had a lot to learn about myself. How can I mold someone into to the person I needed in my life when I don’t even know what I need in my life to be happy or successful myself. I’m still trying to figure out me. Plus, I’m still addressing issues of my own childhood that haven’t been resolved. So, I then turned to myself and man I learn a lot. Plus, God worked with me on those childhood issues. Now I am more confident and know exactly what I want, but, what do I do know?

As kaliko88 as already written, “We are all different in our own ways, with our own strengths, talents, and skills. It works best for my husband and I when we acknowledge who has the greater skill in something and let them do it. Sometimes it is him, and sometimes it is me. We compliment each other, like puzzles pieces that fit.” I fully agree and understand this. There is an old saying that goes something like this; “You can lead the horse to water, but you cannot make the horse drink.” I had a horse and I put this saying to the test. Yeah, I not only lead the horse to water and when he didn’t drink I walked him into the pond to the point we both had to swim out and that horse didn’t drink a drop. Realizing that I couldn’t do anything I then turn to prayer. I prayed and I prayed. The answer I receive is no matter how much I pray for God to change a person’s will, he is not going to do it. So, as I bring closure to one relationship how do I remain open to another? How do I not harden my heart and live the rest of my life alone? How do i recognize that puzzle that fits? I don’t want to go through what I am going through today every again.

We as men and women are connected to one another through our blessings. Our rewards for following Christ are our equality. Here are where the confusions come along.

Men have replaced God’s given dominion with their own use of fear, tyrannical controlling, and selfishness. The sad thing is that this worldly definition is traditionally passed along as what a man should be by God. (Matthew 15)

God’s dominion is not about making others feel subservient and never has been. His dominion was structured to be about accountability and responsibility through HIS WAYS OF LOVE (1 Corinthians 13). Let me try to explain in a different light. Dominion is a contract bestowed upon man by God (The CEO/ The Only King of the Castle/Kingdom). Man is the COO (Chief Operating Officer). Man needed help to run this organization called earth. So God looked out for him and created woman to be his VP or Co-Chief Operating Officer. Here’s one of the kickers…man is who God holds accountable for the earth going in the black. But woman will reap the same reward of going in the black if she does not uphold her Divine duties despite anything man does not uphold. Remember we are supposed to be equal in our rewards. If one loses, we all lose no matter who may appear above the tides. See we are fulfilling duties not roles when it comes to God (check the definitions roles and duties). Roles are really what we as people put on ourselves. Duties are covenants/obligations with no compromise.

Here’s where it gets tricky. He created woman to be uniquely different from man. Although she is stated in the Bible as being weaker, she is not weak (for those men who are stuck on control as power and not inspiration through their own deeds/works). Men need to read Proverbs 31 to see what God wanted woman to truly be. If you read closely, it says she is energetic and as strong as her works needs her to be. She is capable of inspecting and buying land with HER OWN EARNINGS. Just those few aspects of Virtuous women/Women of Noble Character (Proverbs 31) would suggest that she is capable of being a well balanced person on her own educationally, financially, etc. She had to have studied and rehearsed/practiced these WAYS before getting involved with a man in order to be strong for the union.
For women, here are some of the reasons why the topic of women not being heard in the church becomes important though…first her husband would have understood that she has the obligation to be at her strongest in life so she could relate to what man was going through by being a better balanced individual, as well a helper through God and not through the man of God…secondly man was suppose to direct his path for himself and his family through Christ. Not from worldly checklists or achievements and boastfulness through talk…finally because man was showing signs of not been great examples of God’s Love by not being selfish, boasting/arrogant, making others jealous and easily angering people, it was set up so that someone could help restore/counterbalance wrongful ways and not conform to them, but help transform. (Ecclesiastes 4:7-12) Hence the end of Proverbs 31 states, “Let her DEEDS publicly declare her praise”, not her speaking. Paul even says women are supposed to discuss questions within their household/husband and let the husband take them to the counsel to be answered and bring back responses for further discussion in the household.(1 Corinthians 14:26-39) Paul was just stressing order over chaos so he went with God’s structure and creational order and accountability/responsibility. This would also suggest that she seek God for herself and not just take anyone’s words for granted. She is counting on the man to be truthful with her in God’s name not his will. But when man falls down and can’t/refuses to get up or admit his wrongdoings, she must set out to help in roles that men assume are theirs, but can filled by anyone who is strong in God. Look at the stories of the women who followed Jesus(Luke 8:1-3), look at the blood blemished woman’s faith(Matthew 9:18-26)look at the Gentile woman’s faithfulness(Mark 7:24-30), look at the prophecy of Anna(Luke 2:36-40), look at the sinful woman who anointed Jesus with love(Luke 7:36-50), look at the Samaritan Woman or woman at the well(John 4), look at the woman caught in adultery(John 8:1-11) Women have been strong examples of belief, faith, work ethic, and transformation since the beginning of time. Remember she too has her divine rewards invested in man’s well being and has to be the unique woman God created her to fill into. Men and women in Christ have earthly worth with heavenly value. Value suggests that you can be bought, but to be in Christ you would already know that he bought you at the highest price that no man or woman could ever pay. Our earthly worth is meant to be invested in only if we choose to grow as a body/union in the ways we are to reflect in His image and not our own.

No matter how high we get in riches, degrees, titles, etc. in this world know that our divine rewards/blessings are not of this world. Sometimes we chase God for his blessings instead of chasing THE PROVIDER. We have faith to ask for things, but aren’t faithFULL before, through or beyond our blessings. (To be blessed is to be rewarded for walking in His ways consciously) We use God like an ATM machine sometimes. (“I’ll be back when I need more”) Know that as we take on the “I” status and see our brothers or sisters struggling (1 John 3:16-20) and don’t walk in God’s Way of Love(1 Corinthians 13), we, as a whole human race, will reap what we sow (BOTH GENDERS INCLUDED). Therefore men must understand that dominion is rooted in GOD’S LOVE (1 John 4:16-20) “Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and keeps no records of wrong doing; it is never glad about injustices but rejoices when the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstances” (1 Corinthians 13:4-7) The latter stated scripture list the ways of God’s Love broken down for us to study, consciously understand, practice and apply daily. To not do so would show that you are “speaking as a child, thinking as a child, and reasoning as a child” hence meaning that you have not “put away childish things/ behaviors/ ways” which are many times passed along to generations as traditional roles of men and women beyond divine duty.

For the men, Ephesians 5 stated for husbands as well as wives to submit. Submission is not subservient it is giving/sharing your best. It was not meant to submit to the instant self gratifying ways or desires of one another (1 Corinthians 7:29-38), but to submit to reflecting God’s Love/Ways to one another’s lives. “In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man actually loves himself when he loves his wife.”(Ephesians 5 :28-30) Men have to get over themselves and start to live “naked and unashamed”(Genesis 2:24-25) of their own lives to truly store Gods Ways of Love deep in their heart.(Proverbs 7:1-3) Men have to learn as well as women how to apply love. If you can’t love yourself then how can anyone expect to love another? Then they need to start to teach and lead by the chapter of Titus 2. To continue teaching emotionless masculinity seeing where this world is currently standing, is insanity ( Def.:To choose to repeatedly do the same action, expecting different results.) Times are bringing about changes yet we don’t transform to the only unchanging, unconditional ways to be able to transfer to the next generation!?@#

Although my comment is long, hopefully it is detailed for you to seek enlightenment for yourself. I leave you with this, “Then we will no longer be like children, forever changing our minds about what we believe because someone has told us something different or because someone has cleverly lied to us and made the lie sound like the truth. Instead we will hold to the truth in love, becoming more and more in every way like the Christ (our best example of God’s love in human form), who is the head of His body, the church (in this world, but not of it). Under His direction, the whole body is fitted together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and (faith)FULL of Love.” (1 Corinthians 4:14-16) “And God Himself has commanded that we must love not only him but our Christian brothers or sisters, too.” (1 John 4: 21…please read the whole chapter not just the verse) but here is the key we must love one another as we love ourselves… and if we do not know how to love ourselves then know that “…He will give you all you need from day to day if you live for Him and make the Kingdom of God your primary concern.” Know that GOD, who is Love, is the connection/ means/foundation to every being, everything and their fruition and prosperity. Having another gender around was a way for God to say to man I have another human for you to Love in all her strengths and weakness like your own that reflects my image but you must always keep me first so I can show you how!

***all Biblical text was taken from the New Living Translation***

I believe that it is in God’s design for a man to be the bread winner of the family and for a woman to be the main caretaker of the children and the household. It’s not a demotion on the womans part. It’s simply that we are more designed to do certain things. I think that the current focus on material wealth has caused the current vision and understanding of familial structure to be misconstrued and ignored.

Good discussion though.

I find the way this is said it easily leads people to think that women are assistants to the tasks of men. And that is not the way Scripture says it. This is a pretty big problem. Plus when pieces of Scripture are lifted out of their context, it also easily leads to remaking it into something else. And this is one of those Scriptures that is often lifted out of context unintentionally.

The context is that it is not good for the human to be alone, and God is going to send a help for the not-good of aloneness. This is quite different from “a helper” to the man. She IS the help. She does not give help to.

My veil is off to you too! Amen! I think any music that brings Glory to God is good not just good but wonderful. If it weren’t for music I do not know how I would make it through the day worshiping our God. I know some have to wear ear plugs, lol. Jubul was the creator of the harp and flute and I imagine the first complaints about music began, lol.

If you want to open a can of worms try explaining the expansion of the population with the brothers and sisters having sex to be fruitful and multiply.

Marti wrote…”Have cultural changes trumped the social order of the Bible?

Or have we in some way misunderstood the intent and wisdom the Apostle Paul when he wrote,
“God is not the author of confusion but of peace… Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says” (1Cor 14:33-34).”

The answer is sin. Yes, the curse of the ‘original sin’ of Adam and Eve. Our nature is in conflict with our spirit. The world is corrupted by it. Everything we touch, manipulate, create is contaminated.

Is it not possible that Paul was speaking in reference to the ‘rabbinical law’ as opposed to the Mosaic law? By that time a multitude of specifics had been written to interpret and expand the understanding of the law and in the process corrupting it. This is why the pharisees could keep the letter of the law without obeying the spirit of the law.

I have read about, observed and experienced humble servants using their gifts of ministry despite opposition and certainly without positive recognition. They served for the sheer joy of serving Our Lord and His sheep. (The fields are white with harvest but the workers are few.)

Is this not what the apostles demonstrated after Pentecost when they were threatened to stop teaching and preaching of Jesus Christ? Does the servant serve to be applauded by leadership or the people… OR by the One who called them into service?

Is that what Paul is referencing when he speaks about God and confusion?

Every ‘true’ servant answers a call from God despite the obstacles or opposition from others.

If we truly live as Christ lived we live every moment for HIM… as man, woman, husband, wife, father, mother, provider, homemaker, friend…our lives should overflow with HIS presence? That’s the only way we will experience the harmony of the Unity of the Spirit.

Christ exemplied that to the fullest. He valued every person equally. Paul echos this in his letter to the Corinthians regarding gifts and love.

I think perhaps we may have allowed our ‘nature’ to override our spirit by taking offense many issues including women in power. Afterall, Is God in ultimate control of all things(including govt authorities)…?

Over the years, I have had to ask myself one question in many areas of my life… Am I serving to please my self…or to please God? If I am a slave, a bond-servant to Christ what right do I have to take offense? A slave has NO rights. (We Americans have a hard time swallowing that!)

When it comes to women (or men) in the home, church, or career should it be any different?

I have no objections to women serving in church so long as they exemplify Christ in that service and most importantly in their personal lives. Politically we cannot control anyone beyond the ballot. We have a hard enough time controlling ourselves. How can we expect to control others?

The only answer is PRAYER. We underestimate its power and privilege…to be able to enter at any time the throneroom of God and have audience with the KING OF KINGS. We also underestimate the other half of prayer, living a righteous life.(the prayers of a righteous…)

I submit to you that the real issue is always one of self whether in the garden or our Society.

Our forefathers valued the rights of the individual; however, the majority ruled in decision-making. When the majority is a God-fearing people, this country is a healthy nation. As we slipped and allowed God to be overshadowed by ‘Human-rights’ we lost the concepts that insured our health as a nation.

Oh, we still try to do the right thing. But, Everyone is doing what is right in his own eyes.

(Dare I open another can of worms and ask What music is appropriate for worship? The emotions and nature tell us what feels good or uplifting…but, what does the Spirit or the Word say?)

We will continue to slip into decay and corruption so long as we ignore God and what is right in HIS EYES.