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Sit down with me as we think through some tough topics in a reflective way and examine some of the difficult issues that can trouble followers of Christ. My hope is that you’ll always come away with more to think about… RBC Ministries
Inexpressible Remembrance
Posted by Mart De Haan
November 11th, 2009
Filed in Nations and Politics
72 Comments »
Today is Veterans Day in the United States. Yet we meet here on this website from all over the world.
So what I’m about to say has no regional or partisan intent.
Regardless of our citizenship, political orientation, or national history of conflict, we all owe the veterans of our own countries expressions of appreciation that cannot be captured in word or emotion.
Who can count the cost of military service on individuals or families? Who can begin to measure the value of a life given in behalf of others? Who can begin to weigh the burden of those who survive active duty, but return to civilian life to pay the price of what they will never be able to forget.
Our producers are in the process of doing a video series, titled, “The War that Never Ends.” They are exploring the stories of Viet Nam veterans who, as a result of active duty, have struggled with
Depression
Anxiety
Irritability
Emotional detachment
Hyper-vigilance
Nightmares
Flashbacks
The humanity of these stories surfaces not only in the struggles of our own countrymen who paid such a price, but in interviews with North Vietnamese vets who have returned to their own homes fighting the same war of memories that never ends.
Thank you for your service. Seems so inadequate.
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What cannot be underestimated, is the far reaching impact of the costs and sacrifice for generations to come. My children are still feeling the affects of their father’s father being shot down in Vietnam when he was 10. All of the symptoms above have been seen in the family members after the fact. War comes at a huge cost. Thank you for reminding us. Please submit anonymously.
Of course not to trivialize what sacrifices our veterans and their families went through to protect us, I cant help think of the ultimate sacrifice Jesus, Himself, went through in order to rescue us.
We do, in their honor, make grand monuments and other tokens of appreciations, but in the scheme of things, they are woefully unsatisfactory. I find myself left with just saying humbly….thanks. John 15:13
‘Taps’ will echo across our nation & the world, today.
Many of us will recall fallen comrades, fathers, sons, daughters…
Many versions of lyrics to the song have been penned but the original version was purely instrumental.
The first, written by Horace Lorenzo Trim, has three verses. (unusual since taps is seldom sounded 3 times)
Fading light dims the sight
And a star gems the sky, gleaming bright
From afar drawing nigh,
Falls the night.
Day is done, gone the sun
From the lakes, from the hills, from the run
All is well, safely rest;
God is nigh.
Then goodnight, peaceful night;
Till the light of the dawn shineth bright.
God is near, do not fear,
Friend, goodnight.
My personal favorite was recorded by John Wayne.
Fading light
Falling night
Trumpet call, as the sun, sinks in flight
Sleep in peace, comrade dear,
God is near.
My oldest son always argues with me about Christians joining the military. He says that we are to be peacemakers not warriors. I have chosen not to argue with him about this any longer because it causes division. I do not like wars but I am so appreciative of those who volunteer or were drafted back in the day for giving their lives for our countries and our families. I see everyday the affects of their service on them, their families, and on all of us. Sometimes the outcome is horrible and I humbly say I could not do it but I respect those who have done it.
Thank you so much for laying your life and your families lives down for your countries. I respect and honor you for your courage and selfless giving. Thank you just does not seem the proper response to the sacrifice.
As I write, it is a beautiful 60 degree day. The sun is shining, a gentle breeze blows in through my windows and I am at peace. But somewhere in this world, the sounds of gunfire, heavy artillery, tanks and the whirl of helicoptor blades are daily reminders of places ravaged by war. Many of us, fortunate enough to have our loved ones return from war, can never repay the debt and service they gave for our countries. While we are at peace, others die each day at the hands of those bent on hatred and destruction.
How can we say thank you to the young soldier who will not return home to his or her parents? The husband who leaves behind a wife and small children? The grandfather looking forward to spending his golden years with his bride?
A thank you, a salute, even a prayer for those in harms way seems so insignificant. Honor seems to be a missing element within our society today. We honor things not worthy and fail to honor those that matter most; our fellow veterans, our spouses, our families.
I’m reminded of Christ’s ultimate sacrifice on the cross and His call to us in John 15:12-13. “Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.”
Thank you for your sacrifice. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your love of country and your fellow man. Thank you for calling us friends. You are highly deserving of our respect and our honor.
My brother is a major in the army, and has done at least four tours of duty overseas, including two in Iraq. Whenever he wrote home it was always to talk about how great ‘his guys’ were. He also asked for and thanked us for our prayers. The prayers, he said, meant the most to them.
He’s home now, and thankfully, stationed close to family for a while. While I agree that Christians, and really everyone, ideally should be peacemakers, through my brother I have seen the reality. There are those out there who are not peacemakers, and they do not care who they hurt. So I ask that soldiers not be looked at as fighters, but as guardians and defenders. As the quote says so perfectly, “Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.”
‘Thank you’ may seem like it’s not enough, but my brother will tell you, that along with your prayers, it is priceless to them.
In our local paper today is a quote from an 85 year old survivor of Pearl Harbor: “I’m not a warrior. I’m a serviceman. We served. If we don’t remember that, we are going to go through it all over again.” This was true for my father as well. He was drafted in 1942 and had no desire to see Europe under those circumstances, but he went and served, as did so many others.
And then there was Vietnam. So much sacrifice, and so little to show for it. I will be looking forward to the RBC video series “The War That Never Ends.” There are so many of us still trying to make sense of that period in time.
Wretch like me: Thank you for the words to taps; I have never seen them except for the Day is Done verse.
Like your Country, our nation is agonizing over the war in Afaganistan. We have left Irag, seems we did not pull our weight?, Solders are dieing every day and that is not right. We are also killing people in a foriegn land rather than fighting in our own streets. 5,000 miles away people are being killed to protect our “Freedom” and then we try and enforce our political system on them. The Romans did this as did us British in a past age.
Lets stop this fighting now. Take to the streets as you did in the 60’s and cry out for change.
On a lighter note, I went to “sign on” that is what you have to do here every two weeks if you are out of work, and I decided to attend the 2 minutes silence ceremony in Helston and got offered a part time job.
Every cloud has a siver ish lining!
Steve I prayed for the Reel Familly and yourself in my hour and a half walk through the woods into town.
God Bless
Bob
There is just so much to say, so many directions to express the unexpressable.
Oswald Chambers never fired a shot in anger at an enemy, yet his devotion and love he expressed for his World War I, troops from Australia and New Zealand, made him an extraordiary Christian soldier.
During the invasion of Normany France by Alied and American forces, the German troops mistook the military chaplans, for medical personal. Because there were so many of them running to the wounded and dieing men, on the battlefield.
The doctors and nurses at any field hospital or treatment center anywhere, can testify to unimaginable horror and suffering they witness in their attempt to comfort and save the wounded and dieing.
During the American Civil War, one of our most loved and respected songs was penned…”Onward Christian Soldiers” I still cannot hear it sung without tears in my eyes and the stirring of my blood.
For thoes of you who do not know what standing in the gap means, I will try and explain.
When advancing armies met on the field of battle as they approached each other at close range there was a gap between them. Each army seperated only by the few yards of space in that silent deadly area between them(the gap). Just before they engaged in hand to hand combat.
When it is said that our veterans stood in the gap for us. It is because they keep us safely behind the battle lines. By standing in harms way for us.
The world today owes the freedom we enjoy to countless men and women who did the right thing, answered their nations call and defended their fellow countrymen by serving….by going up against the enemy of freedom. Whether by using a gun or by aiding thoes who do.
On the grander scale it is Jesus the Christ who died for our salvation by standing in the gap for us, once and for all.
You are right Mart it is inexpressable gratitude.
Thank you, men and women of todays military, for the love for your fellow countrymen you show by standing in the gap for us. I pray for your safe return home and a long happy life.
Steve
Steve
I agree with you. I have never seen such passion in a man.
yes we have a debt and owe so much for our freedom.
But we can no longer say yes to killing inoncent people so far away. As Nations we have a responsibility to do the right thing. That is to stop killing! get rid of our weapons of mass destructrution, what right have we to tell others not to have them, and to promote peace in the world.
I sound a bit like the marketing agent for the anti christ, but in reality we are supposed to support peace.
Never forget! They shall remain forever young!
Bob
True heroes are those that sacrifice more than most of us could ever imagine, on an everyday basis for us to enjoy life as we know it. America thanks you for our freedom. As a Christian, I also thank GOD for sacrificing his only son for my everlasting life. AMEN!!!
Both my mother and father served in WW II in Europe. I cannot fathom what it must have been like for them. My mother was a nurse who worked in a psychiatric ward comprised of soldiers, prisoner of war and concentration camp survivors, few of which could speak any English. Many of which were in an unrecoverable state. I’ve no doubt that much of the time she felt that she was in over her head.
However, she came back to the States, met my father, married and raised a family. My father died years ago, but my Mom is still here and I hope one day will know Jesus.
I am glad my father performed his duty well, but I also honor my mother for looking after those who lost so much in the war and performed the service she could give.
Thanks, Mom, this is for you.
Bob in Cornwall,
Today is not a day to take up arms against the whys we are fighting that is a fight for another day. Today is a day in our country where we honor those men/women who have given up their lives to honor what the government has asked them to do for it and it’s citizens.
Appreciate your thoughtful consideration for some of us who join in these conversations from around the world. And though I’m living in this country, I do not belong here but then neither do I bear a patriotic allegiance to any specific country on this earth. As a Christian I will never be able to relate to this extreme patriotic fervor displayed by American Christianity.
Please, don’t be mistaken… it is not that as Christians, we do not serve to defend the freedom of our respective countries. My grandfather fought for his country in WWII, but as a Christian he regarded it as any other regular job. As a family we never memorialized his services for the country and though we have many veterans in our congregations, as a church we never observed any patriotic holidays. Just wanted to share a little bit of my background, so that people here do not misunderstand my lack of empathy and no, this is also not to belittle the sacrifices you have made for your country.…
At work, I often get to meet several veterans who return from combat to pursue secondary careers. Some of them share their videos and pictures with me and also talk about their personal struggles with PTSD. God gives me grace to reach out to these individuals and help them out with their work and to also share the peace of Jesus with those who do not know Him and pray along with those who already know Him. The loved ones of those veterans who gave their lives for the freedom of this country are in my prayers…
However, while you pause to honor the memory of your veterans, I would like to take this opportunity to pay my tribute to those who have sacrificed their lives for the Kingdom of God…starting from righteous Abel, the Prophets and the Apostles to the saints that are being martyred for Jesus. My patriotic heart beats for our Heavenly country and the brave soldiers who battle under the banner of our flag- The Cross!
My prayers this evening is for our “Frontline troops” so aptly described by Pastor Joe Stowell in “Strength for the Journey”! And so…
…We praise and worship you “O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not the God of Heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations (2 Chro 20:6)! Thank you for the precious blood of your Son, Jesus Christ that bought us our eternal freedom.
Please, forgive us for not being mindful of your Kingdom to become dismayed by this battle. Even though we struggle against unseen forces of this dark world, we know that you have already won your battle to give us victory over satan, sin and death. Help us Lord, to not remain in darkness as defeated Christians but to lead lives as more than conquerors.
We pray for all those who have denied themselves, to lift up your cross and have enlisted to serve in your army. We remember those who lost their lives in combat…and rejoice in this that they did not die but have been sown to bring forth a greater yield. Let your gracious hand provide for their widows as they are left to singlehandedly raise their children.
We seek your special protection on those who are engaged in fierce fighting to face persecution in the hands of unbelievers. Be a strong shield to those who are being attacked by the wiles of the enemy in their personal lives as they battle against cancer, emotional depression and other physical disabilities…that you may heal and restore them back to active service once again.
I also lift up those who are being defied by Goliaths…in terms of raising financial support and are painfully struggling to make both ends meet during these economically challenging times. Just as your Spirit enabled David to overcome his enemy with just a sling and 5 small stones, pray that you will do great exploits for these faithful men and women who have forsaken comfortable lives to serve you.
Move our hearts and our hands to willingly use our resources and wholeheartedly support these brave ones who are engaged in this war for lost souls.
Above all we pray that as they encounter barriers that hinder their progress, your very own presence may encompass both before them and behind them to lead them through raging seas and fortified walls.
May your Spirit nourish and refresh to strengthen their feeble hands and steady their weak knees as they toil and endure hardships in order to advance your Kingdom into enemy territories of this world. We know that they will surely have their rewards.
Meanwhile as we your Church, continue to cling to the promises of you our Defender, we also anticipate with joyful hope for that day when we will return with you to an ultimate victory of this “Battle of the Ages”… and in that blessed hope, we ask all of this with a thankful heart. Let your will be done in our lives. Hear us dear God because we pray in the triumphant name of Jesus Christ our Lord.”
It is Remembrance Day in Canada…well now as I see the clock, it was yesterday :-). Remembrance Day – “Lest We Forget”. On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, people everywhere are asked to pause in memory of the thousands of men and women who sacrificed their lives in military service. We must never take lightly or frivolously brush aside the cost of our freedom. Being patriotic or not being patriotic, whether you agree with war or not, they have nothing to do with today. What matters today is remembering – your freedom – the power to act or think or speak without imposed restraints. Boldly remembering that had it not been for those brave souls, we possibly could be speaking German right now, suppressed by a tyrannical power structure and ideological system of totalitarian rule laid down by the demonic Hitler; this blog would not exist.
My thanks, my 2 minutes of prayerful silence is all that I can give back…so small, so insignificant but it is another way of Loving my neighbour.
Bob, in England, My new friend, I am a US Marine Corps combat veteran of Viet Nam. I served with some of the finest men I will ever know. They were willing to die for people who didn’t care one way or another about their sacrifice.
Though there were some who did. Some of the Viet Namese whom I met longed for the freedoms we here in America and I might say in all the free world enjoy.
Such freedoms are not won without the sacrifice of someone.
The protests that were going on at the homefront were in great contrast to the solid effort our fathers generation had shown during WWII.
While young men lay dieing 10,000 miles away, their countrymen were getting high on drugs and burning the flag of the very country that gave them the freedom to do such a thing.
When the young soldiers returned home they were met with the vilest of insults and rejected by many of their countrymen their own age.
The 60’s was a turning point in America, where we turned from God to pursuing selfish self motivated pleasures.
No my friend, we will not repeat thoes mistakes again. The enemy today of peace in the world is the evil that murdered women and office workers as they sat in their desks. The evil that is this Islamic extreamisim is the enemy of every good thing in the world. I would not surrender to their cowardly cut throat barbarisim. Nor insult the efforts of all the men and women who have went to fight them in their homeland so that we do not have to fight them in our own.
NO PROTESTING…Only prayers, support and an inexpressable gratitude for their protection.
Steve
Poohpity
You are right, of course, today is a day to remember and I appolagies for sounding off about ongoing wars. I cried at the service yesterday, mainly because of it’s simplicity and lack of pomp.
In England our dead are brought back to one airbase, and next to it is a small market town called Wooton Basset. After the relatives and friends of the solders have spent time with there loved ones, the coffins are driven in a cortage through the town and on to their own home towns. This happens sometimes serveral times a week and thousands of people come from all over the UK to just stand and bow and honour these fallen heroes in silence.
I will never forget them. Their peace has come. They will never grow old as we who are left grow old.
I thank God for every new day and for every new wrinkle on my face.
Daisymarygold.
Thank you for sharing
It’s good to understand how we each think.
In the UK we now tend to put asside our feelings of Nation for the concept of a multi ethnic society. This is because of our history of suppressing other cultures by force when had our empire. Our American friends encouraged patriotism in the begining because they were building a brand new nation out of a hotch potch of different cultures. The Flag is the focus of this and as a nation all Americans, no matter what culture they are from, stand behind the flag as “One nation under God”
This a strange and alien concept for me and seems a somewhat dangerous way of thinking, but I understand their need for this, it is how they relate to each other.
Bob
Steve
Your comment appeared while I was typing my previous entry.
I obviously have not gone through what you have, but my ex partner was in special services in Viet Nam and fought alongside American troops as well as performing other duties behind the Berlin Wall etc. We all want freedom and the right to defend it. Because our involvment in Viet Nam was secret we never had the social backlash that you did over in the US.
I agree, what you call 9/11 was a terrible act and was done by cowardly extreme Islamic fundamentalists. As Daisy said “As a Christian I will never be able to relate to this extreme patriotic fervor displayed by American Christianity.” To the rest of the world this is how American Christians appear, as extreme fundamentalists. Neither Islam or Christian is right or wrong, but the evil it brings about is wrong. We are commanded to forgive, and to love. (Easier said than done.)
I am sorry I upset you, please do not be bitter about the past.
Bob
I am a veteran from the Viet Nam era and appreciate the support the military men and women are receiving today in contrast to my service time. The comment from William Bennett below is just a portion of his talk.
William J. Bennett, in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997 said: Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident. We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.
Then there are the wolves and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy. Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.
Then there are sheepdogs and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf. If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the unchartered path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.
We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids schools. But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid’s school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep’s only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.
The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours. Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports, in camouflage fatigues, holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, Baa. Until the wolf shows up; then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.
In the story, the Lord of the Ring, after evil had been defeated and all the grand struggle and effort done and seen by the little Hobbits. These 4 little Hobbits sat in a pub in their village as the people of their village went about their lives as if nothing had happended at all. Oblivious to all the death and all the the extream efforts of so many. They were totaly unaware that they remained alive and happy because of all that these 4 little Hobbits had done for them.
It is because we here in America value life, that we must never forget the sacrifices and efforts of thoes who have prepared the way for us.
Jesus said that there was no greater love than this that a man lay down his own life for another.
We believe what Christ has said and so honor these who not only did lay down their lives but all thoes whom were willing to.
To do any less is a great injustice, and eats at the very core of all that is right in the world.
Steve
Bob in England, please don’t misunderstand, you haven’t upset me, and I am not bitter about the past.
I find myself somewhat frustrated that you and Daisy don’t understand that many of us Americans are willing to die for two things, our Christianity and our Country.
To encapsulate American Christianity with Islamic extremeism is though, a grave insult.
The whole of the world is jealous of America and that jealousy comes out in all kinds of forms.
We were attacked by these cowards because we stand with Israel. We didn’t provoke any attack, any more than the hostages whom they kidnap and behead.
Daisy as well as others who live and work in America, enoy the freedoms others fought and died to provide for her. You Bob enjoy living under the Union Jack instead of the Nazi Swastika because of the sacrifices of English and American soldiers of every faith who recognized evil and stoped it.
Do you think you can openly worship Christ in Saudi Arabia?
If the Saudi Bin Laden and his evil is not stoped now, there, where they hide like the cowards they are, hidden in caves and dressing like women. where would you rather fight against them? There in Cornwall?
Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
I will stand up for Christ in all that I can, I will also stand against evil all my days, and let the Lord direct my path.
Steve
I am feeling a little frustrated by those who live in this country and enjoy the freedoms to worship as they choose. America was founded by people who wanted this people to have the freedom to find the truth on their own and not to force one specific religion down anyone’s throat. I would really not like to call out a specific name here but many people have died to allow us freedom to choose. My thought is go back to the country you are from and enjoy the freedom there.
It is obvious that many of us who write on the site have our home in eternity but while we are on this planet we also have a duty to the country in which we live that is in the bible. I can not even begin to say what my thoughts are because I am going to use some self control at this point. If I had to be like some who call themselves Christians I would hold my head in shame.
Bob, it should be noted that in the country where I grew up, patriotism reigns supreme to the point where those who sacrificed their lives to achieve freedom are literally worshiped as gods…and yes, patriotic hymns and music reduces people to a mad frenzy of tears as they remember with bitter animosity the bondage of Great Britain that ruled over them for almost 2 centuries.
In fact, even today the Gospel of Christ is rejected solely because it is seen as a white man’s religion and reminds people of their slavery. As for human minds that think of doing evil, and yes, that includes Hitler, God meant it for good, to bring about many people to eternal life through the light of the gospel. And it is from that view point of God; the spirit of patriotism is not allowed to infiltrate the church because as you said we are made up of members belonging to different ethnic cultures.
Steve, as I said in my comment above, “this is not to belittle the sacrifices you have made for your country’s freedom. The loved ones of all those veterans who gave their lives for the freedom of this country are in my prayers…” I must add that I said this especially for you and also for rdrcomp who used to participate in this blog.
Steve, I have already said this here before, and will say it again. The freedom that I have in this country is nothing when compared to the freedom that I enjoyed in exercising my faith while living in the largest democracy of this world. Whether it is freedom in the east or freedom in the west, Steve, we do know that all freedom comes from God who rules over all from above, don’t we?
Yes, maybe from your human point of view I am here to work but I know that I did not come here to work. I’m here only because God has brought me to this place for His eternal purpose that involves work for His Kingdom. It is He who moves us through countries and allows us to enjoy the gift of true freedom because of His everlasting love for us. Won’t you then agree that all glory and honor belongs to Him?
Steve and Bob, you have greatly blessed me by having added so much value to this discussion by reflecting upon what you have learned from the Bible, to share your real life experiences and applying them to practical Christian living!
And so because of the love of our Heavenly Father which sought each of us out from different countries and has made us citizens of His Heavenly country, is it okay if I ask you to join me in my inexpressible remembrance of the sacrificial services rendered by saints for our Heavenly Country? You are awesome and I really thank God for both of you!
Steve,
I am not a vet(4f in 1971 first year of draft–my number was 11) and I salute you and the others who went to a war because you were under the authority of a government and a President who was ordained by God at that time in our history. Your service and that of all the other brave and courageous men and women who have served and are serving this country is a testimony to our Founding Fathers and their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Word. We are Christians first and our loyalty is to Jesus and to those He has put in authority over us. It is most difficult at times like the Fort Hood travesty and the comments of some commanders in our Armed Services to remind ourselves that God may no longer bless our country with the leaders who share the faith that we hold so dear. Just like some of those of our brothers in Christ who may have served their country with their lives only because they accepted the authority God put them under. Romans 13 keeps coming back to mind. May God guide us by His Holy Spirit and help us stay loyal to His Word!
Carlj:
Thank you for posting the comments by Mr. Bennett. He is indeed a gifted author and speaker. He is able to cut to the heart of the beast we call evil and lay open its soul. We would do well to read some of his many outstanding works available at our local libraries.
I wonder how many of us ’sheepdogs’ are suffering today from our personal memories of defending freedom. Only those of us who served know the crisis that follows any day of ‘Remembrance’. It is all too real again.
Only Our Savior can understand and comfort those of us with ‘torn bodies and minds’. The ’sheep’ would like to believe that ‘battle scars’ fade and can be eventually forgotten. The ’sheepdogs’ know better.
The sheep would like to believe that by turning their heads they can avoid the next ‘war’ (they try to call them conflicts to lessen the pain). The sheepdogs know that ‘wolves’ will exist so long as Satan is allowed to run free.
When Christ returns and judgement sounds and ALL evil is cast into the ‘lake of fire’ we sheepdogs (bloodied and scarred) can at last enjoy the luxury of sheep. Until that time…
Semper Fi!
Huggs
frank
Years ago, I remember standing in a coat room in my children’s school during opening exercises. I was there to keep an eye on children who were excused from taking part in the (now defunct) morning routine of the Lord’s Prayer and the singing of Oh Canada, because of their parent’s beliefs. I could understand them being excused because of the Lord’s Prayer (it being against a religious belief) but, what I could not understand was why these parents stressed that their kids be excused from singing the national anthem. I was bothered by how they could brazenly take to selfishly enjoy. They had no thought, or worse yet, a lack of concern of even considering the price of what their enjoyments cost….the enjoyments of having everything from clothes on their backs and food in their stomach, to being able to openly practice – without fear – what they believe in. I prayerfully asked God to remove the bitter anger from me when I looked these parents in the face. He told me to love them anyway.
We are all apart of this world…this is reality. This world has been and will be engaged in wars…this is a fact, a Biblical fact. Ecclesiastes 3:8
North America is united together as allies with our beginning foundations built on God. We strive for peace but we will also defend the God-given freedoms that we all enjoy. No matter what happens, God is in control and that is a very good thing.
Frank
My father served the Second World War and the Korean Conflict. In all the years of my life, I have only heard a handful of army stories and just a couple of war stories. One was of him in England. There was an air raid and the troop scattered. He along with some other men took shelter inside a building. The area around the building took the hit and debris fell all around them. My father, in order to get out from underneath the rubble, had to crawl over his buddy’s dead body. He rarely spoke of those horrors…horrid memories that he has somehow managed to push into the far recesses of his mind. Most people don’t even have a clue and sadly some will never “get it”.
Thank you for “standing in the gap” Steve, Carl and Frank and all veterans, those standing for right over wrong on the battlefields and in mission fields of life. That was a phrase also used to depict the mission of Christ…to stand in the gap between a sinful world and death. Jesus grieved in the garden that the cup of suffering might be removed from him from his heavenly Father. But God had a perfect plan that used Christ to stand in the gap between sin and a Holy, perfect God. It is the only religion that ones works doesn’t provide eternal life.
Christ freely gave his life for us on that cross so that we all may (by free will and choice) open our hearts and say, ‘Jesus, I need you. I’m a sinner. I know you died for me, and I believe you are God. Come into my heart. I want to live for you, for your glory and not mine.” His broken, beaten, betrayed and abused body hung on a wooded cross…tortured, spit upon, insulted, shamed. Three days later, he arose to sit at the Father’s side. Could there be any clearer distinction in religious beliefs? We are saved by grace, not works, not gifts, not anything on this earth (or even on this blog).
Jesus name is honored above all names, and some day scripture tells us every knee will bow. If we truly love him, we will love others, repect and honor others. Disagreements occur, by our very natures, backgrounds and upbringings; but that in no way means we are to sit helplessly and silently by and allow evil to prevail, wrong to become a shade of right or allow all that Christ stood for to be misaligned. Even Jesus grew angry at the money changers in the temple. He loved them, yes, but wrong is still wrong.
Someday, we will each give an account for all we have done here on earth. God knows our heart condition. It is the part unseen by man, but not to God. We can have discussions about fruit, differences, beliefs and now honor. The most important question remains. When our life is over and we stand before our maker, will God find Jesus lives within our heart?
There have been several opportunities for me to visit Wasington,D.C. in the past 10 years or so.
One place that is striking and humbling is Arlington National Cemetery. This place cannot be fully appreciated on television. When you enter this sacred ground, one can walk and walk and walk. All one can see in any direction is row after row after row of headstones. The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is actually on top of a hill. When people visit this place, you are reminded to be quietly respectful. You can stand on this hill, and look down on the many, many stones.
I have chaperoned busloads of children to The Wall. Again, these children are hushed in awe as we pass by the numerous names of those who sacrificed everything for us. The new World War II and Korean memorials are the same way. There can be literally hundred of people in close proximity, but it is hushed and quiet.
The visits to these memorials is a humbling experience. It really makes me feel so small. It burns gratitude and thankfulness into my heart. My great-grandmother’s sister had five sons. Four of them went overseas during World War II. All four were sent home in caskets. (The fifth was a recruiter.) I cannot imagine the pain that their mother endured.
“Greater love hath no man than this . .” Laying one’s life down for another is the most precious gift.
oops.
Steve, I will pray for your friend’s family tonight. I’m sure it was a blessing to that family that you were there. I’m so very sorry about it.
Bob, silly question: How long do people in your country wear the poppies on their lapels? Is it for the entire month of November? I sometimes watch the House of Commons on CSPAN, and BBC, and have been noticing your countrymen have been wearing them for quite awhile. I know the poem “In Flander’s Fields” and why the British do it. :) isn’t that why you wear them? That’s a lovely poem. It’s a great idea! We should do it in the U.S.!
And to think how many Americans literally hate THEIR country. How disgraceful. How utterly disgraceful.
Want to say Mart, I am looking foreward to the upcoming video series you mention above. “The War that Never Ends”
Must admit to at least of 4 of the 7 maladies you mentioned, for a period of time.
Especialy the nightmares…
But it was through these nightmares that I was reunited with God and through God that I was set free of the whole business.
A few years ago we dedicated a new Veterans Memorial Park here in our community. since there is a church right next to the park, we held the service in the church because of the uncertainty of weather.
The church was full, the isles were full, the doorways were filled and people stood outside. There were veterans from WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, and the Gulf wars.
I shared the duties of being the emcee with a woman who had lost a brother during the Korean war, he was an Air Force pilot. No body ever recovered. His nephew, named after him, was our guest speaker. Jeff is a Colonel in the Air Force.
As I stood and sat in front of the audiance I watched the faces of the many veterans present. This was their moment, this was their thank you, this was their parade. You could see it in their expressions and tears they freely shed.
Daisy ask me, in her remarks if I would join with her in her inexpressable rememberence of the sacrificial service rendered by the saints of our heavenly country. I would certainly like to. Especially since I consider all believers to be saints. I would never take away from them the gratitude they deserve.
The subject of our discussion is remembering the veterans of our countries that went to war on our behalfs. So for all of them, for all of you who are, I personaly thank you and ask that God bless you in every way.
Steve
Steve, thank you so much! Had been specially praying for you…and thanks also for sharing! It was in response to the subject that I felt it was equally fitting for me to remember the unsung veterans of our Heavenly country who barely get recognized here on earth.
You said “I consider all believers to be saints”. All of you living here in this country are Americans but all Americans do not go to war, do they? Similarly all believers are saints but all saints are not soldiers of the cross. Those troops for whom I had prayed above are enduring hardships as good soldiers of Christ right here in this country.
Again, all of us whether Christians or non-Christians face hardships that are common to all: such as failures, sickness, poverty or death of loved ones. So, the hardship that is mentioned in 2 Tim 2:3 refers to difficulties believers face especially as a result of forsaking all in order to faithfully serve Christ.
Obviously all of us do not fit that description of those “who have left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for My name’s sake” (Matt 19:27-29). This does not mean that those of us who have not forsaken all are not saints. Just like, all those who did not go to war are not considered as un-American. Sacrificial service for Christ is a special call which only few are able to respond.
bubbles, great thoughts! Are you are a full-time missionary? Just plain curiosity:) “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends” is a precious verse but it does not apply to those who lay down their lives for their earthly countries. In John 15 Jesus was telling this to His disciples and was not addressing the general crowds. That verse refers only to those who lay down their lives for others who are also fighting for the Kingdom of God…i.e. for the sake of Christ. “he that loses his life for ‘my sake’ shall find it.” Matt 10:39
This is just to help us think about the clear distinction between serving to die for our countries vs. serving to die for the sake of His country…
I am a couple of days late in posting this, but this is still the BTA topic, so I will describe a scene that fits in very appropriately.
We had a Veterans Day service at our international school here in Malaysia on Wednesday. It involved a color parade by our Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts. The flags of all 28 countries represented by our student body were on display in the auditorium. Our guests of honor included a staff member who is an American veteran, an elderly Malaysian veteran, members of the Australian Air Force, including the chaplain who led in prayer and read In Flanders Field, a poem written by Canadian John McCrae, and our own school spiritual life director, who gave a brief devotional. We observed the miute of silence between a student playing The Last Post and Reveille on the trumpet.
It was a moving experience, recognizing those veterans from our various countries who sacrificed so much for the freedoms we all enjoy.
Bubbles
The Red Poppy is warn for approximately two weeks.
The Royal British Legion (who look after veterans and their families) Launch the appeal towards the end of October and people generally stop displaying them after 11th November. The wreeths and flowers on the memorials tend to be left ’till the end November.
Years ago Peace protesters tried to introduce a white poppy as they considered the red to represent war and not peace. The poppy is a reminder of the blood shed for us and they were, as you said, found growing in the killing fields of flanders after the carnage was cleared up.
I do believe many English speaking Comonwealth countries like Australia and Canada do similar things.
Steve
I agree with Daisy. She has obviously seen fearce national patriotism in her time and, as seen in Nazi Germany, it can be used for evil as well as good.
Christian & Islam both use it to insite hatred around the world.
I do appreciate all the sacrifice that has been made in the past so I can live in freedom.
Bob
Steve
You Said
“I find myself somewhat frustrated that you and Daisy don’t understand that many of us Americans are willing to die for two things, our Christianity and our Country.”
As a nation we have given over most of our sovereignty to The European Union, which is shortly to have a president and foreign minister. Because of World war two, it was decided to tie our counties so closely together that we would never be able to have a war again. There are currently 27 countries, I think, and over 400 million people.
So the feeling of nation hood is very different here.
I will always be British and I know the French will always be french but Our Identity is no longer based on this Idea of country and patriotism. I loved working and living in Italy and other places in Europe, and feel much more European than just English.
I hope I would be willing to die for Christ, but I have doubts about doing the same for some national ideal.
Bob,
You make an interesting point. Who knows what shape or form nations will take in years to come. I feel that we should be willing to fight for, and die for, the oppressed and not a particular political ideology. The problem is that sometimes that gets blurred. I always have to remind myself that I am a Christian who happens to be an American, not an American who happens to be a Christian.
Daisy, I will remind you once again the subject of the discussion is remembering the veterans of our countries.
Not a discussion about saints and their service to Christ.
You have a lot of nerve saying to Bubbles that Laying down ones life for their country is not what Christ meant when she quoted the passage.
Do you now claim to be able to speak for Christ?
Laying down your life also known as dying for someone means just that.
When a person dies for his country, they die for father, mother brother sister and even the stranger who doesn’t care. Even for the likes of you Daisy.
You have insulted and belittled the sacrifice of every soldier who has died for their countrymen. In your callous statement to Bubbles.
When you said you didn’t understand the relationship Americans have with their Christianity and their love of country, you should have left it there instead of trying to explain what you do not understand.
Steve
Another question Mart asked was: “Thank you for your service. Seems so inadequate.”
What is done for those soldiers who come back and cannot cope with life? How is their life, are they being cared for? Because for them it is an ongoing war in their heads. Who is helping them?
Is there a christian ministry dealing with them?
When Corrie ten Boom came out of the WW2, she started a home for people who had been in these nazi concentration camps. She started them without asking money from the public. God blessed them in doing that.
Steve,
There are more that believe that the military are hero’s than those who do not. I understand your indignation but that is another battle that belongs to the Lord. I know that beyond giving your life for your country you also have given your life for your community and family because of who you are in Christ.
A elder once told a story about how some Christians only raise their banner within the confines of the church population. He said it was like in the old days how the wagon trains circled so that no one could enter for a defense and they circled so tight that no one could get in or out. God did not intend for us to live within the confines of the Christian circle but to reach out to those who needed to hear the gospel and have the touch of the Savior. We are to be the protection to those who are oppressed and rejected which is what those who choose to serve are.
I think it was wonderful for President Washington as his first order of business when he became President was to assign chaplains to the military because while he served he acted in that capacity. There are so many that have accepted Christ during their term of service and so much good. Many with closed minds tend to look at the negative instead.
So be of good cheer because we know who over came the world and all it’s notions/attitudes. :-)
Steve, Thank you for the reminder! Just like everyone else I am also remembering the veterans of my Country. May God bless you for all that you have done for your country! Steve, you and Glenna and Matt are in our daily prayers…
Dear Friends:
As I read our posts, I am constantly reminded of the unique circumstances that came together to form the United States of America. To put it briefly, this country was begun by a church body. The history books may have erased that fact; however, the original documents still clearly contain the evidence.
The Mayflower Pact was a covenant of people who were being persecuted in Europe for their christian beliefs. They came to this land to begin a new nation formed with the expressed belief that God was leading them. I know of no other nation that came into existence for this reason unless you consider the covenant between God and Abraham which created the nation of Israel.
(perhaps that it the tie that binds us so strongly)
To speak of patriotism, national fervor or other such emotions in the context of any other nation is understandably questionable. As an American, I know I am unique and I wish that more Americans understood this uniqueness. Perhaps we would be less inclined to change or drift away from what we had originally.
Huggs
frank
Been thinking about patriotism and national fervor and I was also considering our patriarch Abraham…If Abraham had been loyal to his country Ur, then today he would not be called the father of nations!
Jesus and the Apostles were unique to belong to God’s chosen nation-Israel. If they had displayed patriotism and national fervor, then today the rest of the world would have remained lost for eternity!
If a person is willing to die for two things, Christianity and country, then it clearly speaks of a divided loyalty to Christ. Intermixing nationalism with faith is outright idolatry. It is to equate your country with God.
And yes, as a Christian who speaks for Christ I will always question when I fail to understand strange doctrines practised as Biblical truths within the Body of Christ. In claiming that “When a person dies for his country…” are you saying that your allegiance to your country is an expression of your faith in Christ?
I’m sorry, but to my spiritual ears your patriotic zeal rings hollow when regarded in the light of scriptures… unless someone can give me a Bible verse which clearly calls me to love my country.
The Bible teaches us to be subjected to government authorities, obey the law of the land, and pay our taxes. That is the duty of every good citizen which also includes fighting to defend the country’s security but where does it tell that followers of Christ will be recognized in the body of Christ if they died for their countries?
What if God called you to be a Good Samaritan and tells you to go and lay down your life for a brother and sister in Saudi Arabia?
Jesus did tell us to render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s but He never said that Caesar is Christ!
Patriotic identity and Christian identity are not the same. To intermix the two is the exact recipe for lukewarm Christianity! A choice has to be made. So, choose this day whom you will serve. As for me and my household we will only serve Jesus Christ our Lord!
The early Christians refused to follow the spirit of nationalism and were therefore led by the Spirit of God to lay down their lives and conquer the world for Christ! Inexpressible remembrance indeed!!
Interesting discussion. I have just logged in and read most of the week. Frank, you so ably described my personal feelings of this nation and patriotism. Well stated. We should be honored to live in this great country and be willing to die to preserve our Chistian heritage that our forefathers fought for. We have experienced more freedom than any country in the world. Why have we experienced more freedom? Because of veterans that were willing to risk their life to die for there childrens freedom. May we work to preserve that freedom. Steve, my hat goes off to you for your service. A thank you from the bottom of my heart for anyone that has served. It disappoints me to see the attitude of some of the comments to your posts. I have mentioned before, that I have an uncle that fell on the hills of Normandy. I know first hand the hurt of the family where a father, a son, a brother, didn’t come home. Bob in England, and some others, you can’t grasp the feeling of patriotism as I do, or you wouldn’t sit back and be critical of those that laid down their life for this county, and I might add, your country. It’s not just a patriot ideal Bob, it’s for the Christian freedom we enjoy. It’s worth dying for.
Jing, Steve and it seems the rest of the USA.
You fail to see what you are doing. You are pollarising the world into two camps.
You are the extreme fundementalist Christians and Irag, Afganistan and Iran are the extreme fundementalist Islamists. Stop this foolishness now! Listen to the way you speak. I thank God you have a secular president that might be able to redresss this unbalance.
Daisy is absolutly right, Christ and country have to be seperate. Remember you are the only nation to have used nuclear weapons in anger and you have more of them than the rest of the world put together. Who is the aggresor here, as seen from our side of the world.
We cuddle up to you because we do not trust you. That is why we sent people to Viet Nam, to keep an eye on you.
Bob
This nation was founded by folks that wanted religious freedom because they felt that the truth would then win the battle. They developed our rights and laws from the direction of the bible and it was used along with long hours of prayer for God’s guidance to draft the various foundation that were laid in this country without demanding that all follow the way they thought. They understood that God is His infinite power would be able to guide people to the truth not by demanding that they believe but being a Light of guidance. Because of the countries who tried to control us by not being able to publish the bible in English because they wanted control mainly by England and the monarchies. Although this is not the topic we are to be discussing this country has a rich biblical history for the rights of it’s people to be able to have the bible in every hand but some choose to over look those facts.
My loyalty is to Christ and at this particular time in the US I still have the freedom to give bibles away to whomever would like one but my beliefs I will never push down someones else’s throat. Christ never asked us to choose a country over Him. I feel He did ask us to live our lives for Him and in turn it would affect every area of one’s life. So no matter your job whether in politics or sanitation my life in Christ will be reflected in that job and because of my freedom in this country I have the ability to do so.
This is just a reflection of how something so beautiful as remembering the lives of those who have died in service to their country, no matter which it is, can be turned and twisted around for someone’s own agenda. So rather than allowing the topic to be addressed pride and selfish ambition turn it around so that the all eyes are on the spark that fuels the flame of discontent and vain ambition. I really do not understand how that can be a reflection of Christ in one’s life. Help me understand. Oh, I get it. It is allowing folks to have the right to freedom of speech which people have died to allow us this freedom and I thank you for the sacrifice.
It seems like the “War That Never Ends” is in the hearts of men/women no matter whether they profess Christianity or not. This all started out as such a simple subject and then some want to critisize others for having love, honor and patriotism in their hearts. Why can’t you have love for God and your country. I guess some don’t have a big enough heart for all of it. Why stir up conflict? This was meant to be a subject of honor and respect.
I thank the veterans and honor their service so that I may freely profess my love for Jesus Christ. There are many countries where that is not a choice. Our soldiers are fighting to give other countries the freedoms we have, the freedoms that some come to this country for.
Sticking to Mart’s original post, I sit here in my family room looking up to my left of the American flag, folded and handed to me at my father’s burial service. Bob, I choose not to argue and start name calling. If I am considered extreme for Christ, thank you for the compliment. Small town in the Midwest-God, family and country. I stand by “Old Glory” and I believe we have been a country blessed by God. I will not look back and betray the ideals our country was founded on. I look at the flag that flies in our small town with pride knowing my uncle died to keep this country free. We’re not perfect Bob, but I stand by the ole USA. It’s my country and I thank God for it. Call me what you want but my loyalty lies with God, family, and country. Just after 9-11, President Bush spoke to the country and the world. He stated “you are either with us, or you’re against us”. How many on this blog have the guts to stand with me for this country and Christ? I know where I stand, and “I shall not be moved”.
Simplygrateful and Jing…Amen
We can love Christ and country. After all He created the countries…all of them.
Help us God to speak truth in love.
Frank…a little Canadian history. It wasn’t a covenant that built Canada but nevertheless Canada was built on the Word of God. My country too has been blessed by God because of that.
Newfoundland was the last Province to join Canada (March 31, 1949) and it’s motto is “Quaerite Prime Regnum Dei” (Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God). Canada’s parliament buildings (the equivalent of your White House) in Ottawa contain scriptures carved into the stones: EPHESIANS 6:13 is written around the altar in the memorial chamber: “Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand” PSALM 139:8-10 is found on the wall in the same room beside a list of wars in which Canadians have fought and on the outside of the Peace Tower, PSALM 72:8, PROVERBS 29:18a and PSALM 72:1 are all engraved.
Bob…..Our Canadian national anthem includes the words “God keep our land glorious and free.”
That was the reason why so many Canadians, under the Red Ensign, fought alongside Great Britain in the two World Wars. Many gave up their lives thus ensuring that we would live in a free land ruled not by tyrants but only by God’s laws. Because Canada has had the misfortune of having SECULAR PREMIERS, Canada’s only hope lies in returning to the values it was built on.
Daisy……Not sure what you mean: “where does it tell that followers of Christ will be recognized in the body of Christ if they died for their countries?”
I am not sure if this helps but I did find the act of defending in the Bible.
Zechariah 9:8 But I will defend my house against marauding forces. Never again will an oppressor overrun my people, for now I am keeping watch.
Thanks for sharing the info on Canada. It is helpful to know. I pray constantly that God will raise up men and women to return the US to it’s founding values. If we are not careful we are going to go the way of Britain. A terrorist attacked our military on US soil and our government is avoiding calling it terrorism. People who were involved in deaths of many people on 9/11 are going to be allowed to promote their ideology at taxpayer expense in NY. May our national be preserved.
Bob and some want a Christian Blog and liberal in social issues obviously, but not be Christian in politics? You say we have a Secular President, well, I say, thanks for confirming our fears. We are not a secular nation nor want to be – that divides us but respectfully. This nation was based on Christian principles not on some union of nations. This “divides us” of course, by choice, like it was over 200 years ago when we declared “Independence” from Great Britain. The reason we feel our country is worth dying for is because we provide most of the Christian missions, welfare, aid, to the world and the reason people “watch us” is because they need our help.
If they get into trouble WE WILL BE THERE FOR THEM! William Tyndale died for printing the Bible because the English wouldn’t let him print it because it was under Roman rule but he died a martyrs death because he went against the state to do God’s will … that is ONE reason why we have so many Christians now — Christians put Christ first ahead of country. In that sense, we unlike the European Union are not and DO NOT want to be a “secular nation”. That is one reason we fled England, for freedom of religion.
As Paul says — “the love of Christ constrains us” to stay true to the Christian values of our forefathers — it is in our blood, and in our hearts and minds — established by the hope we have in Christ — and we can not do anything else — with a clear conscious.
Note that there are many aspects of Christianity and “having done all to stand, stand therefore” is only one but it is one. The greatest advancements in Christianity have come from the greatest “costs” not from deference but from being and standing differently and honestly and genuinely for God’s word – with bases being disagreement! More cases than can be listed are cases in point. From Tyndale to Luther to Calvin to Wesley, the list goes on and on. I respectfully challenge everyone on this blog again, who will stand with me? Who will stand with me against the radical Islamic terrorists advocating hate against the most free country in the world where we are free to worship? Whatever we do, our desire should be to do it for the glory of God. You cannot take Christ out of patriotism, out of politics, or out of country. God bless America.
phpatato, hope your parents are doing well. They are in my prayers. I really appreciate you for drawing me into the word of God because that is the very foundation for all Christian conversations.
No, I was not asking about the act of defending. This is what I had said in that comment above: “…That is the duty of every good citizen which also includes ‘fighting to defend’ the country’s security…”
I wanted to know if on the last day God will recognize to reward Christians who have died for their countries.
Zechariah 9:8 is a prophecy regarding judgment on Israel’s Enemies which has been already fulfilled before the first visit of her Messiah when God had promised to defend His house i.e. the temple against the enemies.
Again, that verse speaks of God who will Himself defend and does not say that the people of Israel will fight to defend…
Hope this helped clarify my Q…
And phpatato, you could not understand why those parents stressed that their kids be excused from singing of O Canada and felt bitter and angry …
In your shoes I would have been heartbroken to see that they wanted to be excused from the Lord’s Prayer and would have painfully prayed to go ahead and share with those parents about the true and living God who loves them and about Jesus who gave His life for them so that they and their children may not die but have eternal life.
Do you see how different we are in our perspectives? But I think that’s okay… because what matters most is that we both believe that it is not Canada or USA or any other country but… Jesus Christ is God!
Mart
This is my last comment on this subject as I feel we have strayed from the original question.
I know Christians left Britain because they were being oppressed. Some, The Haymish, came to Britain to get away from tyrany in Europe and then moved on to what became the USA. Your founding fathers were all of British origin and we both, as countries, want freedom for our people. Slavery was abollished here long before the US and I remember those marches of Martin Luther King Jnr. so well in the 60’s. It has not been a smooth path for either nation and we support each other as friends in tight corners around the world. We have no written constitution to protect our rights in the uk and we have to be careful that laws are not passed that erroad them. Your nation was set up to be for the brave and the free, Yes founded on Christian principals. but you must allow the Muslim, the Hindi, the Seek, the tibetan monk, the budist, etc. to have equal share in your country. Black people were oppressd for centuries in the US, now you have a mixed raced, open minded man as president, who can relate to different ethnic peoples both at home and all over the world. Pray for him, trust him! He does not speak out hate to the world, as both Bush presidents did in the name of Christ, but he offers hope and a hand of friendship in the name of the American people, whatever their religion or background.
There is a big patriotism here in the blog! Please, forgive me, I am not American, but thinking about my own country, do I have such a zeal to die for its freedom? I am more like Daisy, figuring out that there will be a time when I have to stand up for being a christian. Keeping the name of Jesus high.
But if you look closely at the topic of Mart it is more about the soldiers coming home and coping with depression, anxiety etc. Soldiers form just any country
So also the North Vietnamese veterans struggling with the same troubles.
It is not about the reason people are going into a war, but more about the aftermath. Are we dealing with that?
Daisy…When I quoted Zechariah, it was to point out that defending from evil is not some foolhardy thing that man is only capable of, that God frowns upon, but that God Himself did that for Israel against her enemies. The Old Testament is full of war stories. There were Jewish people who died defending their own. Do you not think that the living even back then were grateful for that? Fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers cried and were heartbroken by their loss, just as we are today. They fell to their knees and thanked God for His protection (in some cases). God expects today’s Christians to do that too. During that 2 minutes of silence, I don’t just stand there thinking about dead people, I am in prayer talking to my God about everything concerning Remembrance Day. There is one day set aside each year to pay special attention to just how lucky we are that we aren’t under (one example) Hilter’s rule. One day. I love my brothers and sisters in Christ and I too am thankful for their “giving it all up” to become witnesses in this dark world, and for many, to have died doing that. Their reward, their crown is waiting for them in heaven as are the crowns for Christians period (even those who died for their countries) for we all are carrying a cross in accordance to God’s will for our lives. I can be thankful for the saints 364 days a year. But for one day, I’m sorry but I am taking pause to thank God for his protection to me by remembering those who gave up their all by going to war on my behalf…one day is all that’s asked for. I am willing to answer for that and will ask God for His forgiveness if that is wrong.
As for those parents at school (who were Jehovah Witness), I was very saddened that the children left especially during the Lord’s Prayer. Time did not allow for me to properly witness to these youngsters at that time. I did although, witness to the mother of 2 of the children when the time and place was right.
Due to the fact that this blog is not for everyone’s lengthy personal stories, I felt I was doing people a favour by not going into every detail. I like to rule with common sense. Wow, that’s a rarity in this day and age. Common sense tells me that in most cases, things that are posted on the internet are probably just surface written….either for length or for anonymity. Reality says that there will be gaps in what is posted. I figure (wrongly I guess) that people realize that not every “T” and every “I” will be crossed…especially on an internet blog. I assume that people will be given the benefit of doubt; that they should be “able” to fill in some of the gaps themselves. If interest is stirred enough, then they can ask further questions – without jumping to the wrong conclusion beforehand.
We do have different perspectives. And yes, that is okay. We can’t all be deep thinkers. :-)
your sister in Christ
Dear Daisy,
Yes, I did take a liberty of using a verse out of context. I DO KNOW and UNDERSTAND that Jesus was referring to Himself when He said,”Greater love hath no man than this. . .” but you know what, what GREATER LOVE is there than to die for another?? There are several dear friends of mine who I would die for if need be. No, I’m not a missionary. What would make you think that? I did work full time in a Christian school for 16 years, but I’m not sure that counts. Hey, aren’t we ALL missionaries, anyway, no matter where we go? Now that I have a better understanding of you, you will not offend me. Hope you and your family are doing well.
Steve, thank you for your kindness. And, thank you for what you have done to serve our great country. You are very courageous for what you did. Thank you doesn’t seem like enough to say. Like Mart said, there aren’t words.
In my country 500 years ago they fought against the Cathlic Spanish occypying power, for freedom of religion.
It was in the time of Reformation with Maarten Luther and Calvin.
Maarten Luther forbade taking up arms, he taught the people to trust God to fight for them.
Calvin had a different understanding of fighting, he said it was OK. So that is why in our country calvinism is the overall protestant religion, and not Luther.
I used to be proud about the liberating fight, now I am not so sure anymore. Should we not have trusted God to intervene?
foreverblessed, you said it best about trusting God!
phpatato, Thanks for your response! That the parents at school were JW has given me a better understanding of that matter. I misunderstood them to be non Christians.
I absolutely agree with you about defending ourselves against evil. As you said, the OT is full of war stories. God used those wars for His purpose: to punish and destroy immoral and idolatrous nations, to punish and judge His own chosen nation for her unfaithfulness, to let His people and the whole world know that He is the sovereign God who causes both victory and defeat in wars…it is never about people, it is all about Him!
Although they learned it through much pain and loss of innocent lives, in the end Israel learned to trust and depend on God and to not rely on their might and strength. And as you rightly pointed it out “They fell to their knees and thanked God for His protection” Sorry if my comment was not clear enough and gave you the impression that I was against the ‘act of defending’.
phpatato, I also did not say that it was a sin to remember those who gave up their all by going to war on your behalf and no, you don’t have to ask God for forgiveness… Communications on cyberspace certainly has its limitations:)
To explain my stance, if I were to apply this ‘act of defending my country against evil’ to my home… let’s say for instance, my husband got killed while defending us against robbers. As the head of the family, he did his duty to protect his family from evil. Of course, as his family we would always remain grateful for his sacrificial act…
…but because I am a Christian I will tell my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren about how the good Lord had saved our lives through the hands of my husband. To honor his memory, they should do well in school and lead lives that will honor God which their father would have greatly desired.
I would never tell them that for this brave deed, he will receive a crown from Jesus. Now… my children are obligated to honor the memory of their father but I would not expect guests who come and enjoy the hospitality of our home to do the same.
However, I do understand if another person does it differently and teaches her children to honor the memory of their brave father and also expect every body else to do the same.
Now, if for instance, my husband shared about Christ with non Christian family and friends. Let’s say many accepted Jesus and got baptized. And this provoked certain non Christian extremists to kill him. Then I would say “Greater love has no man than this…” because my husband had served and died for the sake of Christ.
In this situation I will confidently tell my children that someday he will surely get his reward in heaven.
No deep thinking here… and I would never wish for my husband to die but I hope you are able to see how my thinking about those who sacrifice their lives for their country radically differs from all the others here in this blog. And yes, it is okay as we can’t all be the same! A different perspective does not mean that one is right and the other is wrong or one is a deep thinker and the other is not…God loves us all just the way we are. You are greatly loved in the Lord!
bubbles, thanks for answering my silly Q. Sorry if that caused you any discomfort. For some reason, when you had mentioned about your trips to the third world, I was wondering if this was part of random mission trips or if you were a full-time missionary.
I agree that we are all missionaries but there is difference in being full-time. I am on a mission for Christ and earn my living by doing a secular job. Whereas some in my family are using their professional skills to serve Christ by serving the underprivileged and for their living they depend on the support of missionary organizations… they are all doing well. Thx!
I know you have great love within you and will not hesitate to die for your friends. I really do thank the Lord for you and want you to know that I love you too:)!
bubbles, I forgot to add this about your comment on “Greater love has no man than this. . .”. Jesus was not referring to Himself but was commanding His disciples to follow His example and love one another to the point of death. The love of God as shown through the love of Jesus extends much beyond that. The Bible says “…perhaps for a noble and lovable and generous benefactor (i.e. dear friends) someone might even dare to die. But God shows and clearly proves His love for us by the fact that while we were still sinners (i.e. hateful enemies), Christ died for us!
There is still this question I have, when being a soldier for your country.
The question is not:
are you willing to die for you country,
but are you willing to kill for your country.
Most soldiers who come home have difficulties with just that last question. Maybe this question should be dealt with before you go.
As a soldier for Chirst only the first Q counts, not the second.
Or maybe are you willing to give up the comfort of your home for Christ? Are you willing to come under the authority of the government for Christ? Are you willing to give up Christmas presents for Christ? Are you willing to leave the confines of the Church building for Christ? Are you willing to go without a meal so someone else could have one for Christ? Are you willing to give up all the toys or collectibles for Christ? Are you willing to give up what you want for Christ? Are you willing to forgive for Christ? Are you willing to give up anger for Christ? Are you willing to give up causing dissension for Christ? Are you willing to think of others as better than yourself for Christ? Are you willing to lie down your life for Christ? Thank God we are not asked those questions before we give our life to Christ, some times we do not realize what it truly means to follow Christ.
Dear Friends:
Perhaps every question raised at this blog site ultimately boils down to a very basic question.
“What am I (a christian) to do? How am I to respond?”
It is the same question posed by one of the greatest christian scholars and theologians of our time.
“How Then Should We Live?” In light of all that we know and have experienced, all that we are told or commanded by our leaders, how do we respond?
The answer is very personal. We must search our hearts. We must weigh and consider all that influences our decision. It is not easy. We must treat it as though our lives depend upon it.
For in reality, our eternal existence hangs in the balance.
Praise God! He knows our hearts. He knows our motives despite the outcome. Only He knows if we have been deceived or if we are consciously choosing to deceive others.
I believe that when the bible says “Judge not, lest ye be judged…” it is a warning to proceed cautiously. We must be slow to condemn. None of us when considering the consequences of pronouncing judgement wrongly wants to be held accountable for condemning an innocent.
We would do well to practice this principle, here. In Paul’s words “Be quick to listen, slow to speak…” Do we hear/see what is written between the lines. Some of us think long and hard before responding. Others seem ready to spew ‘loose’ monologues at every opportunity.
In War people die. Bodies are mangled. Lives are forever changed. Soldiers are placed in life and death situations regularly; sometimes several times in rapid succession. Some weapons kill one on one; others wound and kill multitudes. (Is the same not true, here?)
As a soldier, it is my responsibility to stay alive and vital for my country. It is my responsibility to defend my life and the lives of my buddies because every loss affects the effectiveness of my unit. It is also my responsibility to decide who lives and who dies.
Unless you have been there, you cannot understand the stress level this situation creates. To deal with it we soldiers tuck it away and convince ourselves we will deal with it later. We truly hope we can escape having to deal with it at all. But, it doesnt work.
Today we call it Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or PTSD. It has been called many things ranging from shell shock, battle fatigue, to cowardice. We think we understand it; how to deal with it; treat it; but, I wonder if the solution will ever be found.
God Help Us. You, Dear Lord, are the only solution. You have shown us in the bible that You abhor the taking of innocent lives, the shedding of innocent blood. Yet, you have also condoned killing when the Israelites entered the promised land.
It is beyond me. I must rely upon You and the leaders you have permitted to guide me in my actions.
Yet, I know that one day I will be accountable before you and in that hour, I will tremble. My knees will collapse and I will fall on my face before you in fear.
I am a weak and feeble servant. I make stupid decisions based on my weaknesses instead of the strength I find in you. I confess that I am guilty and undeserving.
My only hope is in Jesus Christ, My Lord and Savior.
Huggs
frank
WML, God is with you, and He knows. And I pray for you, not that I am any better, all of us are the same before God as you are, undeserving. We are counting on His mercy, because of Jesus passion. Love you WML.
WML, the evening meditation of Spurgeon says:
We have a strong argument to plead, for it is his own work of grace which we ask Him to strengthen
with the text: Psalm 68:28
“Strengthen, O God, that which thou hast wrought for us.”
And God we can trust for doing that. That was all He wanted for us, all of us.
Thanks to God, thank You sooo very much, no words can describe it.
Amen, Frank. Thank you my brother for sharing. Our relationship with Christ is an individual thing and what God asks some to do He may not ask another. God has uniquely qualified each person for the task set before them.
Daisy,
I have never been to a third world country. You must’ve misunderstood me.
bubbles, yes I’m afraid I did misunderstand you when you mentioned something about going somewhere to dig trenches. Sorry if this has caused you any offense:(
Frank, whether it is physical warfare to defend our country or spiritual warfare to defend my faith, the purpose of war is to destroy evil for righteousness to reign. And in both these wars, instead of seeking to give God the glory that is due Him alone…
…if we focus on the fleeting glory of mere mortal man as reflected in most of the posts on this blog, it will always end in despair, disillusionment, vengeance, hatred, bitterness, insecurity, fear, guilt, self-pity and every other negative thing that is related to stress.
Regarding your comment on weapons, yes we use weapons to kill… right here! But we are not using mere human weapons. The weapons of our warfare are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds, to refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ”. 2 Cor 10 and that is to justify what you have judged as “spew ‘loose’ monologues at every opportunity”.
Yes, I may not understand the stress of war but I’m sure you can relate to my personal hero whom I most admire next to the Messiah is his ancestor, King David —a mighty man of war who was so humble and always confided in God. He knew that the battle was the Lord’s and never took pride in his own strength. This warrior king with the bloodiest hands in the history of the Bible is also known as Israel’s singer of songs!
Psalms is full of songs giving praise, honor, glory, power, and blessing to God alone… not one of his psalms rang of self-praise, boasting and self-glorying. David confidently trusted the Lord who was his rock, his refuge, his high tower, his fortress, his strength, and this was the reason why David was able to praise God through PTSD!
And this is how David faithfully hoped in the Lord:
“Though you have made me see troubles, many and bitter,
you will restore my life again;
from the depths (bottom) of the earth
you will again bring me up.” Ps 71:20
Frank, with all the love Christ, you are in my prayers…for God to fill you with His peace that surpasses all understanding of our frail human minds!
Daisy,
I’m sorry, but you REALLY have me confused with someone else. I have never even thought about digging trenches.
I have no idea what you are talking about. (???) Just let this one rest.
Sorry! was that landfill?:) I agree, let this rest… the fact is I’m growing really old and forgetful:) c’mon over to the next page and say something bubbles:)!