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Israel's Sh'ma and Monotheism

The “Sh’ma” of Israel is at the heart of her monotheism. it represents the first Hebrew words of a prayer, central to the morning and evening prayers of observant Jewish people.

“Hear O Israel, and be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the LORD God of your fathers has promised you — ‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!” (Deut 6:4).

This historic confession is one reason many Jewish people have taken such a hard line against Jesus. One generation after another has used the Sh’ma as a strategic argument against Christian missionary efforts. In the 12th century, Moses Maimonides, later revered as one of the most honored of Israel’s rabbis, taught that when describing God, only negative descriptions are valid. Therefore, when thinking about the meaning of Sh’ma, one does not say “God is One” but rather, “God is not multiple.”

Even in Jesus’ own day, the argument by some influential leaders was that when Jesus said, “I and my Father are one” he made himself guilty of blasphemy by claiming to be equal with God. (John 10:30-33).

Jesus did not immediately defend his equality with the Father but pointed to an obscure Old Testament text that talks about people as being “gods” (lit mighty ones). Instead of pressing his equality with the Father at that moment Jesus reasoned that, if the Scriptures (which cannot be broken) refer to those to whom the word of God came as “gods”, why would they want to kill him? Then he said, “If I do not the works of my Father, do not believe in me” (John 10:37). That made the crowd even more angry.

Interestingly, in the second chapter of Genesis, Moses gives us a precedent for plurality within “one” when he says that man and woman will leave father and mother, cleave to one another, and become “one” flesh (2:24).

Down through the ages followers of Christ have discussed and argued among themselves as to whether the tri-unity of God amounts to one God taking three distinct roles in revealing himself, or whether he is, even though we cannot understand or explain it, actually One God who exists eternally in 3 distinct, co-equal, and perfectly united persons?

Orthodoxy today maintains that the Scriptures support the real plurality of distinct, equal Persons who share the substance of the Godhead. It’s what the Scriptures seems to want us to believe when they describe one who prays to his father, and who claimed to be the Messiah, anticipated by Isaiah with the words, “Unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isa 9:6).

The practical significance for us involves many implications. One is that if Jesus was fully God, then it helps give us a clue about the eternal value of his death and separation from God for us.

Another important implication is showing up once again especially in younger congregations rediscovering  the importance of community. Such persons ask, “If God is three-in-one, then doesn’t our community itself begin with the Godhead? Don’t the mutual love and interdependence between Father, Son, and Spirit show why it is so important for us to be cultivating our own “community” that is seeking to model both individuality and oneness in Christ?

Both the doctrinal and practical implications are as important to our faith in Christ as the tri-unity of God is impossible to adequately explain.

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50 Responses to “Israel's Sh'ma and Monotheism”

  1. Robert Slone says:

    My understanding is that God the Father, Jesus the son of God, and the Holy Spirit are three in one and the three serve different purposes. I pray to God the Father through Jesus who has given me access to the Father and am taught, nurtured, instructed, and helped by the Holy Spirit which lives inside me as a believer in Jesus the son of God. When Jesus left this earth he told us he would send us the Holy Spirit as a helper. Becoming a believer in Jesus and accepting him in faith that he is the son of God and died to pay the price for our sins, gives us his Holy Spirit to be with us forever.

  2. christ4life says:

    Good morning Mart.
    I have to admit that the subject of The Trinity has been a challenge for me for about a decade now. I have to honestly confess that, in spite of reading the Bible (Genesis to Revelation) repeatedly and receiving documents from my former rector on the subject, I still am not totally convinced of the ‘truth’ of Trinity Doctrine, perhaps because there is no actual scripture passage that comes right out and says it absolutely– all the passages that I have been referred to “prove” Trinity doctrine mainly by deduction or implication. Certainly, when The Master said,”The Father and I are One”, the average intelligent person can deduce that this is analogous to “a man and a woman are one after marriage”,ie they are still two separate individuals/entities but working as One. Don’t misunderstand me though–I worship and serve Yahweh as The One and only True God, I honour and worship Jesus Christ as My Lord and Saviour, and I honour and adore The Holy Spirit as My Lord and Helper/Comforter. It’s just that I still need a revelation on the truth of Trinity Doctrine.

  3. royskius says:


  4. soloyo says:

    Robert, welcome! Nice to read about you, and to know you’re saved for sure. I tell you since I did grow in a Church where gospel was taught, but for about 20 years, I did not understand it, neither that Jesus is God himself, you know, like faving a napkin on eyes. But God lovely kept my life for the day of my salvation, so I think always, do people really know about is saved or not? many of my relatives didn’t, some had come to Jesus by now.

    Mart, one of the many times that came to our home those peoples that use to knok at the door for “teach” you about God, the tried to keep on the conviction God is only one, but Jesus is “a god”, a litttllle one, so, I said, there is one or not? when God said in isaiah He does not know another, nor in past, nor in present, neither in future, is He saying a lie? -oh no, she said, but why Jesus prayed to Him like in third person? did Jesus lied?
    Just took a little moment to say many wonders God made, think about the whole creation! so, I said, why to give human atributes to our great God of creation? if I judge heaven things using as base earth things… I’m losen! if I think I can only be me, not some one else, why to think God can’t? I can’t make an universe.
    In fact, if God says there’s no other god, and also as you quoted, God Himself named Jesus “Mighty God”, and it’s impossible for God to lie, so, They are one. That day, was the first time one of those people turned from laughting about us (always did when we said been saved through grace of faith)to get so so so angry, the one who came with her had a big interrogative mark above her head, hope she took the chance to believe. They never came back, I think they were told not to return.
    God’s grace is needed to uncover the eyes to really see what is written. A jude woman says that when she reads isaiah 53 to judes, they say “oh, this is Jesus, you’re reading christian Bible”, many of them become saved when she tells them where she read, their eyes are opened when realize they have just recognize the Messiah.
    Thanks God for be mercyful about me, I was blind, but now I see.

  5. sjd says:

    The more I read and study, the more I realize the importance of community. I have come to believe that being made in the image of God has so much to do with community. We see in the Godhead the eternal community that is there between Father, Son and Spirit. We, being made in the image of God have at our deepest desire a longing for relationship with God that is often replaced with lesser things. C.S. Lewis has said, “Put first things first and we get second things thrown in; put second things first and we lose both first and second things.” So I must always seek fellowship with God first.

    But God did a wonderful thing. He created a community of believers to help seek “first things” out. The Church is a miraculous creation of God as we are baptized into it(I Cor. 12:13). We are family, body of Christ, living stones side by side, being built into a temple, we are fellow priests, and the pictures of community can go on and on, as we consider all the “one anothers”. I love 1 John 1:3
    3 …”what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.”
    What glorious fellowship is ours!
    I appreciate the community of believers that are blogging here. I am not here often, but when I am, I see a love for Christ and a growing love for one another. Keep up the “community”.

  6. soloyo says:

    BTW, this argument of none God else, we’ve used for the other persons knoking at our home to say we can be ‘gods’ and have our own planet like God has. they really don’t know what to say about that verse, but some of them turned like thinking about, but have a big engagement.
    isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5-6,18 and forth…

  7. soloyo says:

    oh yes, all Bible points to salvation, and salvation is work of Trinity.
    just took those verses ’cause some of hose peaople uses a ‘Bible’ which has been changed in order not to accept Jesus divinity.


  8. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    I know this is still on last topic but think it is worth sharing its on Days of Discovery on the web. An awesome story of God working in someone’s life to give them full understanding of Christ.
    My Search for Messiah well worth watching.It offered much insight into our last topic. It affined for me many things God had already revealed to me but He always has to tell me twice .A wonderful example of sharing the gospel in a gentle way until someone can accept.We can believe Jesus is the only way but need to gently share not browbeat. I still have hope someone will tell Larry King gently: Simply ask God.

    Will post later on today’s topic. I have to go to work. Love all of you.

  9. Laurielee says:

    I think this is a wonderful subject to discuss. Sometimes in our alone-time ponderings, how many of us have had a question or thought, and wondered isf we were the only one? Maybe sometimes we have a fear that if we have questions about a subject and voice them aloud, we will be labeled a heretic…when we are only seeking understanding. There are two things I wish someone would explain to me more fully;
    Phil 2:5-6 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped…”

    And, Why did Jesus pray to God?

    I DO understand that those who believe in Jesus will believe in the One who sent Him.

    I DO understand that Jesus is the Son of God, and the Messiah, and that belief is the only way to the Father…but I’m trying to understand with a background in the Original covenant, or Old Testament, besides the quote above from Isaiah, does it actually say that He IS God? Please be patient with me, I’m only trying to understand that which I don’t quite understand.

  10. rokdude5 says:

    The concept of a triune God that we love and serve has always been a source of “mental gymnastic” for me. I keep in mind what Jesus said in John 14:6. No doubt, most of us pray in Jesus’s name when we talk to our Father for we do not want to have any other gods before Him.

    The commentary in my Bible makes the analogy of the Trinity to a battery. The battery has a positive and negative pole yet it just a battery. So the Trinity is like having a battery with three poles (which never goes dead!)

    On the other hand, I think of Jesus being the “begotten” Son of the Father which implies to me that perhaps there was a time when there was no Son but that would put my understanding of “I Am” and the trinity of our God in peril. This is where my faith comes in. Accepting the Word as is and perhaps NOT think too much for my feeble earthly mind can not completely grasp how God great our Trinity God is!

  11. poohpity says:

    Since being taught about the Trinity as a child I just believed it to be true. I did not need for it to be proved to me then because I was a child and I knew down in my heart it was true. As an adult when I asked for the Lord’s help to change my life it was still the foundation of my beliefs.

    When the angel told Joseph that Mary would conceive a child and He would be a fulfillment of the prophets and they will call Him “Immanuel” which means “God with us” Matthew 1:22,23. Jesus told about the rich young man and Lazarus the beggar in Luke 16:19-31 and verse 31 is what stands out to me about if they do not even listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead. What I am trying to say is that the belief in the Trinity is the basis of my faith and I really do not need to have it explained but by faith I accept it.

    Jesus got upset several times in the Scripture when people kept asking for further proof after all the miracles He had already done which displayed His Deity. I believe that when we are about doing the work set before us as believers more will be revealed but if we doubt what has been already told why would He show us more.

    There are many areas that I have doubt but the truth that I hold to is always the basis of my faith. I am not trying in anyway to shame anyone and I am not perfect in anything or in anyway but I have to hold onto some truth in my life because sometimes that is all I have.

  12. SFDBWV says:

    My problem here is that in order to “prove” my point I would end up writting a book. In fact I have several on this subject. One I would suggest “The Holy Spirit” by Billy Graham.

    Genesis 1:1 “In the begining God created the heavens and the Earth.”Hebrew scholars say there are three numbers in the Hebrew language singular(One)dual(two)Plural(more than two). The Hebrew word used in Gen,1:1 is Elohim, the plural name of God.
    Genesis 1:26 “let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness,”
    It is thrilling to note that Jesus says believers will not be left alone.Through the Holy Spirit,whom He and the Father sent, He will never leave us or forsake us(Heb 13:5). HE (Jesus) HE (Father) HE(Holy Spirit).

    There are cults out there who can’t understand how Jesus can be his own father. So deny the Trinity.
    I cannot understand how everything was created out of nothing. But I cannot deny that everything exists.

    The Trinity is found all throughout the Bible. The Spirit of the Lord came upon and spoke to Prophets of old. The Lord wrestled with Jacob. God spoke from the burning bush, and said his name is “I AM” When questioned Jesus said “I AM ”

    Please brothers and sisters, He is found thoughout the Word. Quiet your mind and HE will bear witness of Himself.

    There is nothing that God IS that the Holy Spirit IS NOT, and all said about Him was what was said about Jesus Christ.

  13. drkennyg says:

    For me it hasn’t been too difficult to believe in the 3 in 1 concept of God as Father. Son, and Holy Spirit. I don’t think of the trinity as an “entity” because that seems too humanistic. Just piecing together what many have referred to above such as Jesus praying to His Father while He was here in flesh form (begotten) while He was fully man and fully God, referring to Himself as the Son of Man, Isaiah’s prophecy of Emmanuel (God in us), and of course Jesus’ promise to send the Holy Spirit as our helper all point to a Trinity. Further the “before Abraham I Am” fits well with “let US make man in OUR image. The Lord’s prayer tells us to pray directly to the Father (“Our Father …). We don’t think of God as looking like us as a result of that because that would also be too humanistic.

    God is the only self created of the universe – always was and always will be and the US refers to THE WORD from John 1:1ff … “and The Word was God”.

    The math idea of infinity is similarly difficult to understand until you simply think of it as having no start and no end with no connection between the 2 as in a mobius strip which is an endless loop where you start on it anywhere and keep coming back to your start endlessly. The earth is NOT infinite since it had a beginning. So it’ll end, too which makes way for the “new earth and the new heaven”. That will go on from there forever.

  14. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    This is how I understand the Trinity. The Son and the Holy Spirit have the exact same attributes as the Father. They are in complete agreement in all things. They do the exact same things God would do . So they are One in that realm they can’t be divided. I do believe in the Father The Son and the Holy Spirit and do believe they are separate but the exact same. I didn’t mean to cause anyone confusion by bringing up this subject. I was raised mostly in orphanages and with different Christians who held to Oneness in beliefs. I have always wondered if anyone else had experienced this. I was just trying to understand the differences.
    Feel somewhat comforted as greater minds than mine have pondered this.

    Laurielee Your words were so understanding. Thank you

  15. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    This is the same site I was speaking about earlier. It has My Search for Messiah. Really a great site.

  16. soloyo says:

    Laurielee, I just enjoy so much steve’s post, I agree, in a quiet mind God can teach that He wants you to understand, He does with everybody. If you read chapter 3 of John you’ll find Nicodemus, a ruler of the jews, he had a big knowledge of jews law, but when he came to Jesus he could realize that he didn’t know as he thought.
    4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
    so, I trully believe Jesus answer can bring us a quiet mind, only trusting in what He wants us to understand bit by bit:
    12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

    why Jesus prayed to God? How it would be about you quoted philipians? I think what we have to focus is the attitude, bowing in prayer (1 Thessalonians 5:17) and not to think about us more than we are. Jesus nature, I’m sure, you and I will understand all that have us with that interrogative sign above our heads, maybe just to see Him face to face in Heaven. so, please rest in Him and also tell Him all you want to understand, He’ll treat you as a father, no lovely father will give a too big load to his little child, and all of us are growing through the whole life.

  17. Laurielee says:

    Thank you all for being so kind and understanding! I’m only asking questions that have occurred to me at one time or another…I am very inquisitive…but please don’t take that to mean that I question my faith! I am in my late forties now, but was born into a family with little or no visible faith or moral values. The odd part, to me, is though I was never told or taught about Him as a young child, I always knew He was there. It’s always been to me like God put His hand on my shoulder when I was quite small, and said, “This one’s mine.” I have no doubt about it. I took myself to church and was baptized at 13. I re-confirmed my baptism in the Jordan River a few years ago. I have voraciously read the Word for many years. I read the Bible through in a year, then start over. Everytime I read it, I have new insights. I also read other complimentary materials. It has been very hard living in a world, trying to find my way, when people tell me I’m not supposed to do what I was born to do. I was talking to a friend who lives far away about this subject. I asked him what I was to do when God has told me what to do, and others tell me that I can’t. I told him that I didn’t want to be a Jonah and go against God…my friend’s answer was quite profound to me. He said, “Then it seems that the question is ‘How long are you going to sit in the belly of that whale?'” I’m sorry to unload on you all, but this has been quite heavy on me for years now. Yes, I’m praying for guidance…in the meantime, I’m going to school to be a teacher of history. The Master’s degree will quite possibly be Theology. Now, I’m waiting for those who will tell me that I cannot do that….

  18. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    Laurielee You might find encouragement at Day of Discovery. Africa & the Bible. A wonderful eighty year old woman doing what she felt led to do in life. Who knows where God may lead you. You are loved

  19. sjd says:


    “I wish someone would explain to me more fully;
    Phil 2:5-6 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped…”

    And, Why did Jesus pray to God?”
    “…..does it actually say that He IS God?”

    Here are some thoughts regarding the above:
    There are some things we would love the Bible to say clearly so there would be no disputing. In the time of Jesus, He did not need to say repeatedly “I am God” in that form, but you do see repeatedly that the people around understood what Jesus was saying in word and by His activity. How many times did they pick up stones to kill Him because they knew He was asserting His Deity, saying that He was blaspheming. Whether it was His “I am” statements, or His “forgiving sins”, or miraculous healings, calling God His Father, or statements before authorities at His trial, or His acceptance of people’s worship, and many other pictures, we see that in fact Jesus was affirming that He was God in the beginning and now was Immanuel, God with us.

    In Philippians 2, I believe there, that it is a confirmation that in fact Jesus was God in the flesh(“He existed in the form of God”-His essential nature was that of God) as stated in John 1:1-3 AND 1:14. But Jesus willingly gave up His right to be seen in all His glory(“did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped” or hung on to), but was also fully man(“but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men”.)

    Jesus, being the second person of the Trinity had an eternal relationship with the Father and the Spirit. As many have already mentioned, I can not comprehend the Trinity, and the way they related to one another, but we do see Jesus continually praying to the Father, seeking to do His will. It is in obedience to the Father that we see Jesus go to the cross. To do the Father’s will was His food. Not only was Jesus praying to the Father a continuation of their eternal relationship, His need for dependence on the Father, but a great example of our need to depend on God to live out His life through us. Jesus could not do anything apart from the Father and we can not doing anything of eternal value apart from abiding in Christ.

    I am thankful that I come to Christ in faith and live by faith daily without having to understand everything. God is truly God!

  20. BruceC says:

    I have never had difficulty believing in the doctrine of the Trinity. Comprehending or fully understanding it is another matter. We may all have to wait for that one. I just take it as a mystery of God. In John 3:21-22, Mark 1:9-11. and Matt. 3:13-17 we see all present at the same time during the baptism of Christ.

  21. daisymarygoldr says:

    Great post, cool pics, good comments! Agree with what others have said about “The Godhead is three distinct persons existing as one”.

    It is so wonderful to see their distinct roles in the following passages:

    -No one knows the exact day and hour of His return, not even the angels, not even the Son. Only the Father knows.

    -Jesus is all alone by Himself when He drinks from the cup of suffering and when He cries out “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?”

    -The Holy Spirit descended only after Jesus ascended to the Father “It’s better for you that I leave. If I don’t leave, the comforter won’t come.”

    Hence, I believe in distinct gender roles!

    “…it helps us a clue about the eternal value of his death and separation from God for us.”-MDH
    …don’t have a clue about this one!

  22. daisymarygoldr says:

    It is all the more awesome to see their oneness as the three unite in “love” to become one. This love is totally different than the love we have for each other as human beings. The love of the Godhead is not an emotion. This love esteems the other person greater than self. This love involves sacrificial giving of self to another…a.k.a willful submission to one another:

    -The Father honors the Son: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever” “This is my beloved son. Listen to Him”

    -The Son honors the father: “My Father who is greater than I”. “Not mine, but your will be done”

    -The Son honors the Spirit “all sins against the son will be forgiven but the sin against the Spirit will not be forgiven”. “He is the comforter and teacher”

    -The Holy Spirit honors the Father and does not draw attention to himself but teaches us God’s truth”.

    -The Holy Spirit honors the Son. (Jn 16: 14) “He testifies about the Son”. (Jn 15:26)

    So, whether it was in creation or in the redemption of man, it is important to note that their individuality unites in “love” towards accomplishing a common purpose and goal. This love should be the basis of the “community” in Christ.

    “This…is a great mystery, far exceeding our understanding, but some things are clear enough:
    He appeared in a human body, was proved right by the invisible Spirit, seen by angels. He was proclaimed among all kinds of peoples, believed in all over the world, taken up into heavenly glory.”(1 Tim 3:16)

  23. Robert Slone says:

    Very, Very well put Daisy. Thank you. I enjoyed reading your comments.

  24. Laurielee says:

    sjd & daisy, thanks SO much for your input.

    gr8granny, you are wonderful…yes, I will check out the Day of Discovery.

  25. SFDBWV says:

    Since I am naming books, I should tell of RBC’s booklet ,”Do Christians Believe in Three Gods.
    This can be viewed and read by clicking on Discovery Series, then clicking ob God. I think RBC does an excellent job in explaining to thoes who need enlightenment.

    Laurielee, why would you think someone would tell you that you can’t become what you want? Only you can hold you back. With God nothing is impossible. I think you will do fine.


  26. Mart De Haan says:

    A question for group. When you say love is not an emotion, I agree that it is not limited to emotion. But are we sure that it doesn’t involve God-size emotion/heart as well. Seems to me that as those created in Gods likeness, and as we watch Jesus relate with affection, that God’s love must also include deeper, richer emotions than we have ever felt.

  27. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    pooh I was rereading your post and wanted you to understand I wasn’t saying anything against the Trinity. Even in Oneness churches Jesus is taught as the Savior and they teach the Holy Spirit of course way back then the Holy Spirit was always referred to as the Holy Ghost. As a child I was taught Oneness whatever that meant. I always believed in Jesus but wasn’t sure about the Father. I guess I just didn’t understand back then. I can remember a preacher telling me that God was One and his mind would not be changed. Really the more I learn it seems those that are truly seeking God are given understanding of who He is regardless of Oneness or Trinity. In the end that is all that truly matters. My final thought is They are One they are Three and They are separate and yet can’t be separated. This really is a subject churches don’t talk about much and maybe this is why it seems to cause dissension. It shouldn’t as it is all about God and His love and our seeking understanding. We both ended up believing and that is Very Good! Hope you are doing well in your recovery :)

  28. SFDBWV says:

    Mart, and all, I for one have never stated that Love is not an emotion. I read here many thoughts that go off into a disagreement with me on several levels. But I find myself trying not to illuminate the diffenences and therefore perhaps avoid an arguement. I don’t want to invite strife into my comments by being drawn into an arguement. Maybe I should rethink my position.

    I have read and heard Preachers say that we shouldn’t rely on our feelings reguarding relationship with God. I couldn’t dissagree more. Love is a feeling.

    You can’t experiance love at any level without feeling it.

    True love has no boundries. Love is a sacrifice. Never an intellectual experiance but allways an emotional one.

    Love is defined in 1 Cor. 13. Whereas Love is a conscious decision, it is choosen because of emotion.

  29. Mart De Haan says:

    rdrcomp, I think that’s a good way to put it

  30. Robert Slone says:

    soloyo, thank you for the welcome.

    I was raised in a Christian family and was saved at the age of 5 years old, lying in my bed, alone and asking God to be my Savior, saying I believed in Jesus as being his son, dying on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice so all could be saved and then rising from the dead on the third day, defeating death, and believing that I now had the Holy Spirit living in me to help me grow up to be more like God. My parents took me to “church” everytime the doors were open, along with my 5 older brothers. My parents, along with the “church” taught and read the Bible to me from the start, taught me songs of praise and worship. When I was old enough to read and study myself, I did, believing that the Holy Spirit was the one that would help me to understand and learn along with praying and talking to God the Father, through Jesus or in Jesus name. I think I have learned as much through prayer as studing the Bible.

    I pose this question, what did the Christian, who didn’t have today’s Bible or never learned to read, learn about God and all these questions we have about the Trinity of God? Personally I believe God reveals himself as he so chooses everyday even as in the Garden of Eden, he came in the cool of the evening and talked with Adam and Eve.

    Just a thought.

  31. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    Gods Love: To awesome to be explained. Just to be touched by his love is beyond explaining to anyone who has not experienced that love. For me there is so much compassion and gentleness in His touch. I have been disciplined by His love but have never felt removed from His love. Love must be emotional as God is Love and my love for Him always involves my deepest emotions. His love makes me so want to share, that love with others and though I fall far short I trust that in some small way I am able to do so. His love brings tears brings joy brings us through tragedy teaches us and even when we think our hearts are breaking He is there. I believe with all my heart that when I am hurting that God hurts right there with me when I am happy God is right there with me when I fail God is right there also. His love is in every emotion I possess.His love is Divine Emotion. I can only imagine what it will be like to experience His love in that day when He gathers me home. If Gods love is not emotional then why does it strike at us so emotionally? Even to those who do not believe there is emotion even in there unbelief and that to is from God is it Not?

  32. rokdude5 says:

    In answering your latest Q, Mart, I would like to think that our God has emotions (e.g. Jesus wept) but in much better control than we have.

    Part of the difficulty in answering the Q is that due to clumsiness in translating the Bible to English is that there are, as we all know, different kinds of “love” – “eros” – erotic love, “phileo” – brotherly love ” and ultimately “agapao” – divine love.

    One way I think of God’s love for me is that His love is so abundant, so overflowing, so much so that He loves me Eight Days a Week.

  33. pegramsdell says:

    Luke 12:12 and John 14:26, basically say that The Holy Spirit will teach you what you need to know and what to say.
    God says He writes the scriptures in our hearts.
    Also, God IS love! We know he is emmotional. He died for us because of His love for us. You can’t get any more emmotional than that.
    Sometimes I do things for someone or pray for someone when I really don’t feel like doing it. That’s love too. Obedience is better whether we feel like it or not. I really get emmotional when I get a glimpse of how much He loves me. I don’t deserve it. God chooses to love me. And to forgive and forget my sin.

  34. gr8grannyjacobs says:

    SFDBWV I wouldn’t mind at all if you should rethink your position. I love to read what your feelings are about our different topics. You always come across as very warm and kind .I love when you share your struggles and your life with Matt and your life stories. I always wonder if you are ok when you clam up and keep your comments short. I never see you as argumentative only as one sharing their own walk with God. We are human so we will never be perfect but God is still with us even when we disagree. I think He understands. There’s that awesome love again:)

  35. SFDBWV says:

    gr8. Don’t worry when I am short with my comments or a little behind it is only because life here in our world has me on a short string.

    All this snow and ice and cold weather is a lot of extra work also.

    I do pray for all the people who just got hit with the ice storms accross Arkansas,Tennessee,Kentucky, West Virginia, and all points eastward of that. We got ice and snow, and rain.

    Over my life I have always been in the forefront of confrontation. I have learned a lot. Not to worry, I will speak with out an arguement, but never back down from my relationship with God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All as one. The Jews said it right. The Lord our God IS ONE.


  36. Romans838 says:

    Personally, from the book of Genesis 1, I have come to understand that three different beings created the world… The first always spoke what is to be created, one hovered over the surface of the earth and in response to the spoken word created. the last one approved what was created and gave it a name.

    One thing was clear in the scripture… they had one name… God. e.g The Spirit of God… God said let there be(allow)… and finally God saw that it was Good…

    When Adam was created, God gave him a task to name the animals; and what ever he named them was their name because at that point in time Adam had the same mind with God… Adam was one with God… the bible said … after God created the animals… he brought them to Adam to see what he would name them. just as the Spirit of God knew and created exactly what God wanted so did Adam know the name that God intended to give the animals… Just as the Word of God say exactly what was to be created so did Adam know exactly the name to say… and God approved.

    My point of writing all this is that God desires for us to be one with him… and not arguing about trinity… for me… its no longer trinity cos there was always a reserved space for man from the beginning.

  37. Laurielee says:

    Robert, I really enjoyed your post. I DO believe that there are those that ‘just know’ there is a Heavenly Father without benefit of being taught, a Bible, etc. I believe that God doesn’t just have one way of reaching everyone…but just as many ways as there are believers. An odd story…when I traveled around Israel, people kept asking me if I was a Carmelite. I had no idea what they were talking about, or why they kept asking. Finally, about a year after I came home, I happened to meet two wonderful Carmelite nuns. We talked about our experiences in Israel, and they finally made it clear to me…I had done most of my walking about barefoot. The nuns were ‘discalced’ Carmelites, which meant barefoot. Me, I only wanted to feel the actual stones beneath my feet in some of the very areas Jesus would have walked. They also explained to me that my experience of knowing God, without having been taught about Him was not so unusual. They had heard of many instances of just one in a family that KNEW. A study of Abram’s beginnings seem to help shed a little light on this.
    sjd…thanks for reminding me of all the “I Am” statements Jesus made!
    Romans838 :) (LOVE that one!) I guess I didn’t think about the dialogue here as ‘arguing’, but ‘reasoning together’. “As iron sharpens iron”…

  38. sjd says:

    Thank you daisymarygoldr

    I appreciated your reminder with the verses that speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’s relationship. The eternal loving relationship that is depicted makes Mart’s comment seem to make sense:
    “The practical significance for us involves many implications. One is that if Jesus was fully God, then it helps give us a clue about the eternal value of his death and separation from God for us.”

    Matthew 27:46
    46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”–which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

    I remember as a child not wanting to be separated from my Father, but think about Jesus never having been separated from the Father for all of eternity past.

    I can not imagine the “emotion” that took place when Christ took on our sin on the cross and experienced a break in this eternal loving relationship for a time. God’s wrath had to be directed toward His Son. Only God Himself could be the perfect sacrifice, and the Father could not look on Him because of our sin. I praise God that He was willing to endure this separation for you and me!

  39. soloyo says:

    oh, here is 11:09 pm, I’m sleepy, so I read post like a bird flight, but I saw everyone of us were now involved in substantially meanings, dusting the brains, to bring verses and share. I feel this time, the theme really shaked us.
    so, I have a question too, how many thoughts we have so far, will be off when we get in front to Jesus in Heaven? Maybe many of us will say: oh, yes this is it, but where I was when brains were distributed? je je, just to smile a little, but have you once thought about what may Jesus think our understanding?
    big hough to all.

    aaaaand Steve, I’m waiting 4 my window deers included ha ha! Today I was so near airport and I saw a DHL plane landing, and said: oooohhh here comes my wiiiindowwww!!! but, nothing 4 me snif!

  40. SFDBWV says:

    I always considered Jesus’s reference to the 22 Psalm while on the cross as just that. He, the teacher, still instructing thoes around the foot of the cross. As an explanation as to what was happening. As another fulfillment from him as the foretold Messiah.

    Soloyo, you might enjoy all the deer outside my window this morning, but it is 21 degrees and snowing. We are expecting another 5 inches today there is already 9 on the ground.

  41. maca says:

    I believe that people in general make the Trinity complicated. Especially when we try to figure God out. My son mentioned something to me one day about think of the Trinity like an egg. You have 3 in one. The yolk, white, and shell. I personally have to make myself think more simple about the things of God. He said, “Come to him as a child.” I talk to God just like I would if He were sitting right beside me in my language that He gave me. God is like the egg. He is three in one, like an egg. You cannot change an egg no more than you can the Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three in one. Yolk, whites, and shell, three in one. Each one is separate and yet still 3 in one no matter how you think about it. Call me simple, I guess. I know God knows how I think and He gives me what I need in ways that I can understand just as He does with each individual person. He is a God that knows EACH person individually and I’m in awe of that. Praise the Lord!!!

  42. daisymarygoldr says:

    rdrcomp, I also love to read your posts and everyone who expresses here…and yes, sometimes we do say the same thing differently…and I’m glad we agree about love. Yes, that is how the Bible defines love. My definition will be the same as how the others feel about love…as an emotion. Human love as seen in our affections is merely an emotion. Emotions are fleeting and are conditional. As long as you are nice to me, I’ll be nice to you or I like the company of those who are like me…. Love based on emotions is unstable, ebbs and recedes like the tide…it lasts for as long as I find the person attractive or as long as my needs are met. Hence we easily tend to fall in and out of love.

  43. daisymarygoldr says:

    Sjd, Thank you! For clarifying “about the eternal value of his death and separation from God for us.”… You are right, Jesus did display emotions…in sweating drops of blood…in pleading the father to remove the cup…in crying out from the cross …but His emotions did not deter Him from the purpose- of dying on the cross. He stayed faithful to the Godhead in willingly sacrificing His emotions to the united purpose of the Trinity. If we understand that love…we’d not question God’s love in our sufferings or doubt if He really cares for us. We would gladly yield and suffer in order to accomplish the greater purpose and will of our heavenly father. Therefore, I believe that the love as demonstrated by the Godhead is not simply an emotion.

  44. daisymarygoldr says:

    The nature of the Love of God as shown by Christ…is not limited to His feeling but goes beyond that to His giving. He loves us not because we are good. We never do anything to please Him or deserve His affections. Yet He loved us…and gave Himself for us. That is the real Love that is defined by an unbreakable covenant…a promise that is so sure and binding to extend even beyond death. Hence, loving others the way God loves us requires faithfulness, commitment and is not dictated by our moods and sentiments. True love endures all circumstances and stands firm and steadfast in the face of betrayal, denial, divorce, and death.

    “You are right, teacher; you have truly said that (God) is one, and there is no other but He…” (Mark 12:32). So, we should love not only with all our hearts (emotions) but it goes beyond that… with all our souls (knowledge), with all our minds (understanding) and with all our strength (might).

  45. Rick123 says:

    The Father Almighty who is the Only One True Source out of whom come all things, “he alone has been, is, and ever will be>For I, Yud-Hey-Vav-Hey, do not change, for I am One, for I am he who has been alive without a beginning, I was, I am, and will be ever present. His Son made this statement>Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:(And there is no other power besides Me.) For all Feed from my power and live.)

    Paul agrees with Jesus that God is One, the Father “out of whom come all things”>>1Cr 8:6 But to us(Paul and the Church of God in Christ) there is but one God, the Father, of(out of) whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    Notice it is always that BY/THRUOGH Jesus are all things, and it is always OUT from the Father.

    So God the Father is the Only One True Source, out of whom come all things and through/by Jesus are all things.

    Remember all things are OUT from the Father, so Jesus came Out from his Father and he(Jesus) still feeds from his Father’s power to live>>2Cr 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he(The resurrected Jesus) liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

    Remember Christ is God’s(1Cr 3:23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ [is] God’s.) and the Father is the Head of his Son-Jesus, so all things belong to the Father, for he is the OWNER(Source), the Head of the family in heaven and on earth.

    And all things are subject unto the Father through Jesus, and Jesus is subject unto his Father forever, for he(Jesus) is NOT over his Head(The Father), for the Father is greater than all.

    Notice what the Resurrected Jesus said>>Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

    All that I have said is in LINE with God’s word, we are all a BIG happy family in Christ, Christ and all the ones in Christ, have One God and Father who is the Head of the family.

    So if the resurrected Jesus called the God of Israel, my Father/my God, and was resurrected(Jesus) by the Glory of the Father, and he(Jesus) now lives by the power of his Father in heaven(Forever).

    And all things were GIVEN unto Jesus by his God and Father, even his(Father) Eternal Power was DELEGATED unto his Anointed One through the Spirit of the Father, to acommplish his(Father) Eternal Purpose through Him(Jesus) unto the Glory of the Father.

    He(Father) has SET Jesus as King over all things that He(Father) created through his Son-Jesus.

    He(Father) that is Unsearchable in his perfection, ways, and power, gave life unto his Son-Jesus, before all things, when he(Father) who was alone and has been, is, and ever will be, the Only One True Source, out of whom are all things(Creatures).

    And Jesus the same yesterday(Subject unto his Father)and today(Subject unto his Father) and forever(Subject unto his Father)…Hbr 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    The Father is the Only One True Source, and Jesus is the Mirror reflection of the Brightness of the Glory of the Father.

    Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!” (Deut 6:4).

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