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The Wisdom and Foolishness of Simplicity

The Proverbs talk about the foolishness of “simplicity.” Paul talks about its wisdom.

2 different kinds of simplicity are in view. The wisdom of the Psalms and Proverbs warn about the danger of being naïve, gullible, and unaware of danger lurking behind the false claims of deceitful or misguided people (Psalm 119:30; Prov 14:15). Paul encourages the kind of “simplicity” that is found in honest minds that are not confused or complicated by pretense, hypocrisy, and hidden motives (2Cor 1:12). He goes on to show that this is the kind of mental focus, honesty, and generosity of heart that is found in Christ (2Cor 11:3 KJV).

So what if we make it our goal to avoid the wrong kind of “simple-mindedness” by testing the claims of both “the right” and “the left”? What if we acknowledge that both “liberals” and “conservatives”, both labor and management, both church and state,  are inclined to “spin” their words to avoid the kind of “simplicity” that is too honest to parade as being above question… or beyond accountability?


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30 Responses to “The Wisdom and Foolishness of Simplicity”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    I realy enjoyed this mornings “Daily Bread”. Today I will remember the great effort that my fathers generation put out in order to save the world from the evil that was present in their generation.

    As to the topic this morning, I have read over it several times trying to get a sense of what it is that is being studied. I guess I am a little too simple minded to get it.

    I like to keep things as uncomplicated as I can. Some issues that are black and white quickly become gray when the spin of either oposition blurs the facts.

    We are also warned to be wary as foxes and gentle as lambs.

    The practice of being kind and generous, gentle and trusting, does come with the danger of being vulnerable. I am affraid this is a lesson learned as life gives experience. The gift of discernment is a great aid but often we don’t listen to Him.

    The great divide between labor and management is a issue with a long history of distrust.
    The different idiolgies represented by “liberals” and “conservatives” continues to evolve into a misrepresented chorus of misinformation meant to control our thinking.

    So for me, my measuring stick is the Word of God. The treatment of each other is found there.
    Political leaders are treated no different by me. They must pass the test of their actions in reflection to the Word of God.

    I will always try to show love but will also question the motives of others, as I need to.

  2. Mart De Haan says:

    SFDBWV, good a.m! :-)Sure appreciate your willingness to always be ready to get the conversation going.

    Am with you on the Bible being our “standard of measure.”

    So… if a case is made from Scripture, doesn’t it make sense to either affirm or deny the right use of Scripture rather than appealing to “learning from experience.”

    Maybe I’m missing something…. again :-)…

  3. sjd says:

    I was reminded today at a men’s breakfast that falsehood is simply a distortion of the truth. Our enemy wants to divert us away from the truth. Satan tried to keep Christ from going to the cross. Peter was chastised for being used by our enemy, when he was saying Jesus did not need to go the way of the cross.

    Matthew 16:23
    23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”

    We must be able to recognize truth well. We must be set on God’s interests. We do that by being men and women of the Word, allowing the Spirit of God to teach us. As we know the truth, we will be much better to discern in the midst of ‘ “liberals” and “conservatives”, both labor and management, both church and state.’

    We will be better “fruit” inspectors. Hidden motives eventually are seen.

    Matthew 7:15-20
    ……………….16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? …………………

  4. tallmark says:

    Romans 12:2. Renew your mind which enables you to test and approve his will. Simple. Effective. Yet we make it complicated, don’t we? Our relationship with Him provides the strength to live for him rather than for self. I like to think of it as plugging myself in to His power through prayer, worship and time to be still. In answer to the question; none of us should think we are beyond accountability or above question. That would be me acting like I am a god. ( or a politician :)) I’ll be pondering my motives today as I consider your question. I shall try to say what I mean and mean what I say. Tranparent is the word that comes to mind here. As for others and what they say or do, I tend to believe what you tell me and take you at face value unless I have a reason not to. Perhaps I will think about being too simplistic in that respect. I don’t know that I want to question everyone and everything though. Seems too complicated. I think that with a good connection (being plugged in)the Holy Spirit will help me be decerning. Go with God.

  5. sjd says:

    Just saw your second post Mart. My concern at times is that the “Church” seems to be letting culture dictate or put a spin on our interpretation of Scripture, rather than just causing us to reexamine it in light of what is going on in our culture.

    In trying to recognize and resolve the problems, the Church has compromised the Truth, rather than reaffiming. If something is not going right, then the Bible must be wrong rather than we need to be obedient.

    Obedience is key. Be available to Christ to live through us is mandatory. We do not need to change the truth. The Truth will set us free.

    Experience must alays be evaluated in light of the Word.

  6. tallmark says:

    Mart, If you agree that our experiences shape us and affects how we interact with each other, then SFBVWB’s thought “The practice of being kind and generous, gentle and trusting, does come with the danger of being vulnerable. I am afraid this is a lesson learned as life gives experience. The gift of discernment is a great aid but often we don’t listen to Him.” is about that shaping not questioning scripture. Our conversation here is creating images and relationships between us and about each other. Our relationship with God shapes us as well. I didn’t get a meaning of living by experience from SFBVWB as opposed to living by affirmation of scriptural truth. But in your defense, it is the purpose of your note to ask the question, right. The conversation is thought provoking. Thanks!

  7. SFDBWV says:

    Right and wrong is defined in scripture. Any time we aren’t sure, the application of scripture is indeed our court of last resort in order to ferret out the “truth’.

    As Christian “babies” we tend to present ourselves so innocent, in believing everyone is like us, that we don’t see the wolves that are in sheep’s clothing. The experience of life will help us learn to not be as naive, while still maintaining “trust”.

    If we are so fortunate as to possess a full understanding of all scripture and it is etched into our hearts and minds, then we would be able to quickly draw on the vast knowledge and wisom recorded there. Upon each encounter with people and issues.

    For me, sometimes a longer look and deeper study of facts may be needed before I can reach a conclusion. This entire matter is a life long process of learning. Sometimes lifes lessons are painfull and expensive and so are remembered easily. Lessons learned about people’s motives and the results of choices, are also wisdom.

    You haven’t missed anything Mart, I’m just trying to keep up.

    The Word is never changing. The same today and forever. It is only my growth that changes and with it a deeper understanding of every Word that proceedes out of the mouth of God.

  8. poohpity says:

    In college the must useful class I ever had was called “the elements of argument”. This class had us read or listen to news articles, excerpts from books and television programs and determine the truths or lies in them. I remember reading one article that was given us and if one did not really pay attention it would have sounded so thoughtful and caring only to find out it was written by Adolf Hitler. Another time I was involved in something that a newspaper printed an article on and what went on really and what they wrote was like night and day. I have found this useful in life by doing research on who the author is and trying to find out what the motive is for writing the whatever be it article, news program or research and then finding an opposing view and somewhere in it all there may be truth found.

    It is also interesting just alone on this blog sometimes we read the same thing that Mart writes but come away with very different ideas and before you know it the topic is off in a never never land sort of way. It is also very interesting from those that are in law enforcement getting the witness views on the same incident. There is he said, she said, they said and then somewhere in all of it is the truth.

    I do find it very interesting that with the foundation of scripture knowledge and the guiding of the Holy Spirit the truth is more easily found. This book (bible) confounds those that believe themselves to be very wise. We are never asked to just trust what it says blindly we are taught to test and to prove it to be correct. So with the incite of God’s word we need to test and look at all the angles of everything that is fed to our minds to seek the truth. Sometimes it is very simply and we put in the some lies we have been taught and then come away with some pretty weird stuff. Then when one adds in a measure of life experience and self motives you never know what will come out of it.

    Well I hope I have completely confused everyone on the topic. I just started going on a tangent and here I will stop with a deep sigh of relief. :-) Hope your day brings some joy to somebody in the name of Jesus. Love

  9. wretch-like-me says:

    Good Day, All!!!
    Once again, Mart, you have offered a good piece of jerky to chew. It needs to soak a little to tenderize and then we start chewing til the goodness comes out.

    I,too, remember a class in college called ‘Forensics’ (aka:Debate) wherein I learned to argue either side of a proposition with the same evidence.

    I am reminded of Satan’s earliest ploy in the garden with Eve. He used the words of God but added a subtle but ‘damning’ perversion. (Gen 3:1-5) NOTE THE CAPS

    “Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from ANY tree in the garden’?”

    2) The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3) but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must NOT TOUCH IT, or you will die.’ ”

    4) “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5) “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be LIKE GOD, knowing good and evil.”

    Satan corrupts truth by twisting it everso subtly. Is this also what ‘children of Satan’? Is this what we sometimes do to ‘add emphasis’ to our argument in an effort to add the weight of scripture in our favor?

    Politicians will take a bill intended to do one thing and add an amendment that has nothing to do with improving the measure only to ‘piggyback’ an unrelated and often ‘pork barrel’ measure insuring its passage.

    To complicate things further, when God-fearing politicians do not support the bill, they are publicly blasted for not passing the measure. Of course there is no mention of the ‘piggyback’ amendment that polluted the bill.

    It would appear that nothing is totally black and white. It is easy to throw up one’s hands in frustration and ‘drop out’ of society; but, is that what we are commanded to do?? No! We are told to live in society; however, not to live by society’s rules.

    A pastor friend of mine put it this way. A stick of wood may look pretty straight by itself until you lay a ‘genuinely’ straight stick next to it.

    God knows Satan loves to throw arguments out that ‘sound’ very straight and true. Only by the Word of God will we be able to ‘verify’ what is truth.

    The answer is to immerse ourselves in the Word daily to become so ‘saturated’ that we can ‘whip out our ruler’ mentally to lay next to any statement or action and judge its ‘straightness’ and truth. In addition, we can use the advice of ‘Godly’ friends and trusted sources.
    And of course, there is constant prayer for guidance from the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus did not leave us alone to fend for ourselves. He gave us plenty of resources. We just need to use them.

    This is what I believe the contrasting statements involve. Simplicity & Complexity…Wisdom & Foolishness

    We should always remember “When it comes to decision-making, each of us will be held accountable for our individual actions.” There is no excuse for being deceived, following the crowd, ‘dropping out’, or refusing to make a decision.

    We are to become ‘mature’ christians.

    Huggs from the ‘old timer’
    frank

  10. Rick123 says:

    Jesus is the Divine wisdom of the Torah, the wisdom of this world is foolishness unto God. That is why Jesus who is the wisdom of God will rule mankind through his wisdom-the word made flesh.
    Mankind will never have his steps in God’s ways…O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps…For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps…God will teach us of his ways and from his Divine wisdom of his Torah through Jesus.(Isa 2:2-4)

  11. poohpity says:

    Rick123,

    What??

  12. Loretta Beavis says:

    I believe to maintain “the goal” it will first require self-examination of our own guilts and fears.

    I just finished reading “When We Don’t Measure Up-Escaping the Grip of Guilt”, Jeff Olson, and will be again reading “When We Love Too Much-Escaping the Control of Codependency” also Olson.

    My own lifelong distrust of God has distorted too much of my simplistic thinking behavior. Discovering my own guilt/fear/trust God behavior and now having to really fight the enemy to counter his lies gives me a perspective why “the groups” say what they say and do what they do.

    I want to live that 2 Cor. life. But to give the test, and rightly test behavior, I first have to evaluate my own results of the same test.

    Even if you don’t have the trials I do, you will find “When We Don’t Measure Up…” wonderfully edifying and a blessing.

  13. poohpity says:

    With codependency one bases their self worth on what other people say rather than on what God says about us. One determines whether they are worth being loved which in the most concrete expression of that love was what Christ did on the Cross. So to believe that truth one accepts the gift of salvation. To deny that truth would mean that we think we had to earn it.

  14. HEY REV says:

    I find it interesting that we (myself first) share with one another how we understand, perceave, believe, and I love it. Much was said that makes me stop and think about the words written. sjd I agree with you about “compromise” We (Christians) have given up so much to the world with out realizing it.
    I was thaught as a very young Christian (when I thought I had most of the answers) a little remembrance of what God could say to me about His word and what I believed.
    Some of you might remember this saying:

    GOD SAID IT,
    I BELIEVE IT,
    AND THAT SETTLE’S IT. (I said that alot)

    GOD SPEAKING:
    I SAID IT,
    THAT SETTLE’S IT
    WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT
    I had to write that enough times so as to remember it.
    It’s not the believing part (for most of the time I believe it) it is for me the Scritpures I still need to learn and understand more deeply. As poohpity said,
    do the research (if possible) and attempt to come up with the truth.
    In the N.I.V last four words of II Cor 1:12
    Paul says, “according to God’s grace.”
    I pray that many times before I preach, teach, speak anywhere that all that I said was by the Grace Of God.
    Sometimes Mart you come up with very provoking thought questions,(and of course that’s good, it keeps us on our toes) but I can’t put into words what I’m really trying to say.I look for words to sound pious and impressive, that God is speaking through me, and I don’t have to prove that do I?
    Bottom line is I will have to answer for myself now and again at that time.
    Like SFDBWV used the word: “kiss” which means, “Keep It Simple Saint”
    I know more now than I did last year (I hope) so I guess I’am growing Spiritually.
    Thank God (Hey Rev)

  15. Rick123 says:

    poohpity: I’m not trying to spoil anyone’s party here. But truly our destiny forever is not in heaven, but on earth. As the OT teaches the home of the saints will be on planet earth forever, which is the third planet from the sun.

    “The New Jerusalem”

    Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God…24 And the nations of them which are saved(Saints) shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth(Our Planet) do bring their glory and honour into it…26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.(The holy city, new Jerusalem, that came down from God out of heaven.)

    Jerusalem was God’s holy city on earth where God’s Temple was established in the past. During the millennium (Rev. 20:8 and Old Testament prophecies such as found in Isa. 4, Micah 4:1 and Ezek. 40). Jerusalem will become the exalted capital of the world, but at the end of the millennium Satan and his armies will move against it to destroy it. It is in this context God intervenes and defeats Satan. There will be no more forces of evil. The Last Judgment follows and the New Earth appears.

    The New Jerusalem is the ultimate capital city of the world because it will have God’s eternal presence. God’s people will live in it forever (Psalm 37:11; Matt. 5:5)

    How is it that the believers think they will go to heaven and live there forever? The Bible also reveals that God’s people will inherit the earth and live on it forever.

    The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven It is the most glorious place we can think of. It is immense, and is a city with high walls, pearly gates and foundations of precious stones. The throne of God will be in it, and God’s people will see His face forever…Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.(Mat 5:8)

  16. chapmartin says:

    I think people do spin their words missing the simplicity that is above question in order, not to be honest, but to manipulate the outcome of a given situation. It would appear that we do not see Simple Truth as being able to “win.”

    Mart, I read your second post and have wondered why folks have to commit sin to understand that it is wrong. If Scripture is our standard, why can’t we trust it to tell us what is right or wrong.

    For instance, I have often heard people speak of fallen preachers as the best kind of preachers to listen to. Their reasoning is that now this preacher knows what I have been through…He “knows” what it is like to commit certain sins, like I have committed. However, The Standard says that the minister should be above reproach, not mixed up in the middle of it.

    Truthfully, it is hard not to manipulate the truth. It is hard to leave amnipulation tactics alone and just rest on simple truth. Thanks for this discussion.

  17. SFDBWV says:

    I had an old friend who didn’t believe in life after death. We had plenty of long discussions concerning the matter.

    I quoted Jesus repeatedly, in showing that the scripture bears out the existence of the soul after death.

    But every time when I would finish my case, he would simply quote one verse of scripture out of context and say “the dead know nothing”.

    He had kept it very simple, by keeping every other thought out. For him that one verse of scripture covered the entire question of life after death.

    For him it was simple, but he was foolish in not listening to the rest of scripture as it spoke on about the subject.

    As I contemplate our current subject I am reminded of how we all “simply” believe.

    I worked once for a much younger supervisor, who admired me and thought well of my work and my attitude. I spoke of my faith to him at every oportunity. One afternnon while we were working together and I was speaking of our Lord, he asked me “how in the world can you believe in these things?”

    My answer was simple, “because it’s true”

    So Mart, the topic is a good one. Sometimes simplicity is foolish and sometimes it is filled with wisdom. It is just how it is used and how it is believed.

    Steve

  18. daisymarygoldr says:

    It is a good suggestion to make it our goal to avoid the wrong kind of “simple-mindedness” by testing the claims…” We cannot simply believe anything but we must “Test everything …” (1 Thess 5:21). The Bible teaches us to test the spirits, test the soundness of doctrines, test the teachings, test other people, test ourselves i.e. test our own faith, test the thoughts and motives of our hearts and also test God’s will for our lives…

    We should take a simple approach to believe and accept God’s Word…it keeps our mind pure which is the right kind of simplicity in Christ.
    We should not simplify/dilute God’s Word…it adulterates the truth and that is the wrong kind of simplicity.

    God’s Word is the truth… God’s truth is simple and straightforward… it sets me free… and the freedom in Christ gives me the power to choose. When we “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim 2:15), it is simply Black and White. One need not be an intellectual to choose between:

    Death and Life
    Night and Day
    Hot and Cold
    Unrighteousness and Righteousness
    Sin and Holy
    Lawlessness and Law
    Darkness and Light
    Yes and No
    Right and Wrong…

    You see how plain and simple God’s truth is? If it is all that simple what then is difficult? It is very difficult to believe… “Obedience is the key”- Steve/sjd…

    BTW, Eve did not fall to the deceptive wiles of the serpent because she was simple or gullible, but because she willfully chose to reject the truth. Willful rejection is a.k.a disobedience… a.k.a rebellion… a.k.a sin! I say willful because… in her heart there was a hidden motive to choose the half truth of the devil over God’s absolute truth… she fantasized in her mind… and wanted to be like God.

  19. daisymarygoldr says:

    The Beauty in all of this is:
    God’s Wisdom is so simple that even a child will get it… even the unlearned will understand it and yet the plain simple truth of God’s Wisdom will not be understood by the most learned or intelligent human wisdom of man… and that is simple ignorance… which is the wrong kind of simple-mindedness… which is dangerous.

    God Himself is very plain and clear when in the last day He will simply divide the
    Goats and Sheep
    Tares and Wheat
    Evil and Good
    Hell and Heaven
    Is there an in-between in the above examples? At least I’m not aware of the Bible telling us about God considering a hybrid… something like a “Geep” or a “Whare”…

    Hence, for me when believing God’s truth it is simply black and white… the Gray areas are an absolute no-no… ‘coz that’s where the danger lies… the in-between zone is where truth gets stretched … as the black (human wisdom) and white (divine wisdom) merge to produce a blurred vision of gray and that is exactly where all the spinning of truth occurs… where the mind gets foggy and life gets trapped in a maze…

    …and listen people… in the spin zone you will not be able to test by the fruit because even our “love” will not be the right kind of love… it will be one confused mixture of sentimental feelings… and if followers of Christ are not careful… we hopelessly get caught in the evil one’s wicked web of lies and end up getting hurt…

    God’s truth is plain and simple and without the help of His Holy Spirit it is very difficult for our sinful flesh to obey spiritual truths. If we just believe the truth and nothing but the truth not only can we can avoid putting a spin… we can even avoid getting caught in others spin.

    There will be many voices of both friends and foes telling us to do this or don’t do that but may we be wise to always listen to that quiet inner voice telling us to simply… trust and obey!

  20. dependent says:

    I believe that too often we allow our culture to define “false dichotomies”–like the examples Mart gives. The ultimate (only?) dichotomy is God’s transcendent Truth vs. anything other.

    But I tend to disagree that it is as easy to discern Truth with a capital “T” as it is to believe that such ultimate Truth exists.

    Example: Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit and mentored by the embodiement of Truth itself, believed the false dichotomy of “Jew” or “Gentile”. It took a *process* of revelation for the apostle and the early church to recognize a “third” option.

    It is easy to see how the emergence of “Gospel for Gentiles” created grey areas that challenged believers of the era to examine their current “black and white” understanding.

    A look at the early church shows the various “councils” that worked hard through the grey areas to establish creeds, canon of scripture, etc. And the history of the church up to the present day is clear evidence that God’s remnant has struggled with the ‘grey areas’ of discerning Truth from dogma, false doctrine or simple ignorance. From Luther to recent history, sincere Christ-followers have created an amazingly diverse tree of denominational branches that encapsulate what permutation of “grey areas” that reflect their perspective of Truth.

    “Allowed vs. Forbidden” changed for the Apostles as they absorbed the freedom of Christ. And concepts like “permissible” and “stumblingblock” illustrate the grey areas we navigate as belivers (e.g. 1 Cor. 8)

    So it seems to me that “wisdom” is embracing the “simple truth” that we must live lives of agape love–while at the same time humbly admitting that, despite the Spirit of Truth abiding in us, we only “know only in part”.

    This frame of mind is fertile ground for the process of “renewing our mind”, transformed from a thought-life of conforming to this world’s false dichotomies and embracing the Truth of the mind of God as He deems fit.
    “““““
    1 Cor. 13:9-13
    For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
    but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

    When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.

    For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

    But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

  21. poohpity says:

    I believe absolute truth exists because I believe in God. I believe in right and wrong. I believe if one closely examines the word of God the principles and practices remain the same but the people have changed and the further away from absolute truth one becomes the focus is no longer on God and bringing Glory to Him but to humanness and self serving principles and practices. History is proof.

    Rick there is no way you can spoil anyone’s party here. It seems that you are in a party all your own and reading it is causing me to recognize exactly what happens when scripture is misinterpreted. It might benefit you to go to a Pastor or some other type of spiritual leader and discuss some of your thoughts with them. I only say this because I am very concerned about you and your relationship to God and what you believe to be true.

  22. kaliko88 says:

    If we acknowledge that everyone, including ourselves, tends to put a “spin” on things, then we would be better able to avoid the wrong kind of “simple-mindeness” that just simply lets things happen. And I know we all do it. It’s one of the most common excuses of avoidance. “It’s not that simple.” Well, it usually is, but doesn’t seem that way because we complicated it, sometimes intentionally.

    Being “simple-minded” is something I have to fight even here. Sometimes the subjects and following comments are confusing or too complex for me. I have to push myself to really look at everything and think about it. Sometimes I feel like begging everyone to use simpler words, or at least stop quoting the KJV. By being watchful of potential “spin” I prevent myself from acting “simple” but protect myself from being misled, even from those I wouldn’t normally suspect of putting a “spin” on something.

    Good topic. Good wake-up call. Was feeling a little numb there for a bit.

  23. kaliko88 says:

    I like your statement of belief, poohpity. Nice and simple, just the way I like it. I think I’d add, I believe in letting God be God.

  24. Rick123 says:

    poohpity: Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.(1Jo 3:3)

    Don’t you think that we should question and examine our beliefs to see if they are truth, and our relationship with God? because according to God’s word we are nothing.

    And I don’t let others think for me, nor do I follow others. They are not my teachers, but it is Christ’s Spirit(1Jo 2:27) that teaches me and not man.

    “What is Truth?”

    Deu 32:4 [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of *truth* and without iniquity, just and right [is] he.

    Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the *truth*.

    Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the *truth*, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of *truth*, is come, he will guide you into *all truth*: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    We can’t establish truth only on the NT nor on the OT, but on both of them. And we can’t establish a doctrine only on the NT nor on the OT, but on both of them.

  25. poohpity says:

    Rick you said, “because according to God’s word we are nothing.” and I ask where in God’s word does it say we are nothing? Why would God’s word show that through the ages God has wanted only the best for us if we are nothing to Him. I see you continually use God’s word to prove your truth rather than God’s truth. Scripture is taken out of context for you to prove something and sometimes honestly I do not really know what you are trying to say or what your point is with the scriptures that are blended and confused together.

  26. Rick123 says:

    poohpity: You are just telling half truths. I said: Don’t you think that we should question and examine our beliefs to see if they are truth, and our relationship with God? because according to God’s word we are nothing.

    And you asked me: where in God’s word does it say we are nothing?

    Well here it is: Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

    You said: Why would God’s word show that through the ages God has wanted only the best for us if we are nothing to Him.

    Remember, God gave his best before the foundation of our world: 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.

    So we are nothing without Christ Jesus: Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

    You said: I see you continually use God’s word to prove your truth rather than God’s truth.

    Well, have I not proven you wrong?

    You said: Scripture is taken out of context for you to prove something and sometimes honestly I do not really know what you are trying to say or what your point is with the scriptures that are blended and confused together.

    Prove to me, where I am out of context in scripture? and if you don’t understand and seem to be confused about what I say, then why question me, so what is your point?

  27. poohpity says:

    Let’s take for instance the Galatians 6:3 verse to you it says we are nothing. To me it says along with the verses before and after, that we need to have a good idea about ourselves and not consider ourselves better than anyone else or we might just find ourselves falling into a trap.

    I do not mind being wrong and I am sorry you feel that way. I have backed off of responding to you in the past which I will start again not because you have proven me wrong but it sounds as if you feel I am attacking you which is not the case. I wanted to cause some thought and understanding which I have failed to do. Eph 4:29

  28. Rick123 says:

    poohpity, You said: Let’s take for instance the Galatians 6:3 verse to you it says we are nothing.

    When did I ever say that? you are putting words in my mouth.

    You said: To me it says along with the verses before and after, that we need to have a good idea about ourselves and not consider ourselves better than anyone else or we might just find ourselves falling into a trap.

    Do you think that you are the only person who studies God’s word in it’s context?

    You said: I do not mind being wrong and I am sorry you feel that way. I have backed off of responding to you in the past which I will start again not because you have proven me wrong but it sounds as if you feel I am attacking you which is not the case.

    It may seem to you, that I feel like I am being attacked, but that is only your thoughts and not mine. And if you think you have not been proven wrong, then why not give a rebuttal(Act 19:8). Remember, when have I ever questioned anything of what you write on your posts? it is you who has done that to me. And I don’t go by feelings, I go by the leading of God’s Spirit.

    You said: I wanted to cause some thought and understanding which I have failed to do. Eph 4:29

    What is so wrong about telling someone he is wrong? does not scripture tell us that God’s word is good for reprove…2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:(2Ti 3:16)

  29. poohpity says:

    There are times when a rebuttal is unnecessary and unwise.

  30. lilu1314h says:

    I do agree that being nice, kind etc has caused us to be vulnerable. I’ve once cheated by a Christian by swearing using Jesus’s name which I’ve believed him naively as a new Christian. Thank God that I’ve not lost faith but be very cautious now to those seems to be very devoted outwardly.

    For those preacher who had went through the “sin” can empathize more than those who didn’t go through, they learned through a hard way and I salute them for being able to overcome and lead a new life and in turns help others to do so. God always use these people to minister to others that have faced the similar problems. If a person is empathy enough, we will know that sometime people committed sin unknowingly due the blindness (spiritually).

    Rick & Poohpity, I read both of your messages interestingly. My understanding of the whole bible is 4 letters – L-O-V-E & put it into action :)

    God bless.

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