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New Tears and a Long Lost Ark

A co-worker’s father died this week at the age of 87. Ed McMahan passed at 86. Farrah Fawcett at 62. Michael Jackson at 50.

Meanwhile the Patriarch of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church announced the unveiling today of the Biblical Ark of the Covenant. The whereabouts of the ancient lost box that was built by God’s instructions to house the ten commandments has been a subject of rumor, fraud, and debate for centuries.

The original ark whose story was popularized in our lifetime by Spielberg’s “Raiders of the Lost Ark” was built to house the Ten Commandments and a pot of the manna that supernaturally fed the people of Israel during their wanderings in the wilderness.  Aaron’s staff that miraculously budded and produced almond’s overnight was to be kept in front of the ark as a reminder, in part, of those who died after complaining against the leadership of Moses and Aaron.

In so many ways the Ark was linked to both life and death. It represented the mysterious presence of the God of Israel and was linked to the death of those who dared to touch or move it without reverence. While the pot of manna was linked to God’s provision for the life of his people, the law of Moses itself came to be associated with the high standards of the life of God and the death of all who broke his laws.

Have also been thinking this week about something that the Apostle Paul wrote about life and death. In his letter to the Philippians he talked about how he had come to the conclusion that his religious studies in the Law of Moses had “killed” him (see also Romans 7:7-11). According to Paul, his studies of the law he loved ended up amounting to so much lifeless rubbish compared to what he found in the resurrected Christ (Philippians 3:1-11)

But what did Paul mean when he said that, as a result of what he learned about the law and Christ, his goal now was to “know Him (Christ) and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead” (Phil 3:10,11)?.

Was Paul saying that he was pursuing Christ in hopes of finding immortality and a salvation he was not yet sure of? (vv 11, 12)

Or was Paul saying that, as a result of his saving encounter with Jesus, his whole purpose in life was to experience the empowering, resurrected life of Christ in areas of his experience that were, in his own efforts, worries, and failures, “good as dead”?

Doesn’t the answer have to be the 2nd? Isn’t it only as we share the concerns of Christ, recognize the “deadness” of our own efforts, and consciously trust him to live his life through us that we discover the difference he can make in us. Isn’t that the death-replacing, real-life experience that Paul is writing about when he says that his goal now is, “To know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead” (vv 10-11)?

Seems that most of my life has been learning the hard way that only when I come to the end of myself– recognizing that my own efforts are as dead as the certainty of my own mortality-that I’m eventually surprised by the wonder of thoughts and spiritual ability that I recognize as coming from Christ in me– and not myself.

As we are reminded by the tears of our own mortality, and regardless of whether the anticipated announcement of the revealing of the long lost Ark of the Covenant results in another fraud or not, let’s make it our purpose to show the life of God in a world that will continue to grieve losses– that show our desperate need for the resurrected life of our only hope and Savior.

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43 Responses to “New Tears and a Long Lost Ark”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Mart , you have produced enough subject material here to fill several books. So we should be busy for at least a weekend.

    I am saddened for the families of the celebrities that passed away. Each of them unique in there own way are remembered for their presence and gifts. I only hope each one was ready for that old common denominator that makes us all the same. Death.

    I have seen several documentories about the Ark of the Covenant being in the care and keep of the Ethiopian Orthodox Jewish priests. But hadn’t known about an unveiling. Are they planning on showing it to the wold?

    I have always thought of the Ark in post Jesus terms as the person and presence of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, as He goes before us in all matters. As the Hebrew were to carry the Ark before them to battle.

    I also remember reading that the Ark is in Heaven.

    It is one of my blessings that very many years ago, I came to terms with my own mortality. Only then could I learn that in order to live I must first come to terms with death.

    Like Paul, Matthew and Glenna and I would really rather be with Christ, there in Heaven. Life here is difficult and sad.

    But none of us live for ourselves we live for others. Thoes others who need us in their lives.

    This is Our time, our time to present Jesus through our lives. In whatever way we can. We get one life, we get one livetime to live for Christ.

    More later

  2. Helmet says:

    I agree with you Bob, living each day seeking His Word in order to know Him better each time, to serve Him, to glad Him.
    Yesterday, my husband and me went to an old woman’s home to do our work of real state, when costumers left, we seat with her and her two frinds to talk (celebrating her birthday), but God turned the conversation in an oportunity for the Gospel, and she received Christ at this age, more than 80, and I’m thinking about this, since we received Christ, how many years it takes to get cleaned, from then to our death, and how many years it takes to somebody to know her need of Christ. There’s so much to live, so much to give up in His hands. So, we can thank God for this, He reached us at the right time, His time.

  3. OGramps says:

    While reflecting on the passing of so many this week, the well known poem by John Donne came to mind.

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself.
    Each is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manner of thine own
    Or of thine friend’s were.
    Each man’s death diminishes me,
    For I am involved in mankind.
    Therefore, send not to know
    For whom the bell tolls,
    It tolls for thee.


  4. daisymarygoldr says:

    OGramps, Thank you for sharing that poem! It reminds me of another favorite poem of mine by John Donne:

    DEATH, be not proud, though some have called thee
    Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so:
    For those whom thou think’st thou dost overthrow
    Die not, poor Death; nor yet canst thou kill me.

    From Rest and Sleep, which but thy picture be,
    Much pleasure, then from thee much more
    must flow;
    And soonest our best men with thee do go –
    Rest of their bones and souls’ delivery!

    Thou’rt slave to fate, chance, kings, and
    desperate men,
    And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell;
    And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well
    And better than thy stroke. Why swell’st thou then?

    One short sleep past, we wake eternally,
    And Death shall be no more: Death, thou shalt die

    “So, my dear brothers and sisters, be strong and immovable. Always work enthusiastically for the Lord, for you know that nothing you do for the Lord is ever useless”. 1 Cor15: 58

  5. OGramps says:


    All I can say is AMEN!

  6. bubbles143jc says:

    Thanks all, I truly needed this….God bless…AMEN!

  7. rokdude5 says:

    I remembered how Michael Jackson used to undergo some sort of fountain of youth hyper-baric treatments. Now that he is gone, I thought to myself the futility of that effort.

    Of course that begs the question of why even try to keep oneself healthy by common sense approaches. For me, my body is a temple and hence I need to keep it in shape as best as I can.

    This mimicks my Christian walk. I could just rest in knowing that since I am a believer my salvation is secured. But something stirs within me to get to know God more and more.

    Like Bob, Im trying to understand my wife but unfortunately Im still waiting for her to write me a book. Even with a book, I know there will be things about her “I just dont get”.

    On the other hand, our Lord has a Book already for us but even that isnt all revealing. In either case, how can I even stop trying? My love for each keeps pushing me to know and understand. “RJ”

  8. SFDBWV says:

    As interesting as the “Ark of the Covenant” is, the only news source I found any mention of todays unveiling was on the Israeli News site. They tend not to believe it.

    However I have found nothing anywhere in American news service concerning the story.

    Michael Jackson’ death has totaly engulfed the news.

    Personaly I would think that stone tablets written on by the finger of God would be “news worthy”. not to mention a jar of manna and Aaron’s staff that budded. That has endured several thousand years.

    I find that as sad as anyones death is, isn’t it something what this world sees as important.

    Jesus knew what he was doing when he personaly appeared to Paul. Paul was a person of singleminded purpose. Driven to be God’s servant. Jesus had to dramaticly present Himself to Paul, in order for Paul to “see the light”.

    Once Paul opened himself to the Holy Spirit, he was once again that unflinching, driven, soldier for the purpose of now serving his Lord, our Lord, the person of Jesus Christ.

    It was Pauls desire to allow his own old nature to die, so that Jesus’s nature could have full control of Paul. “To die is to gain”.

    What could be more desired than to be in full fellowship with God? To share His suffering, to share His glory.

    It was a very different world that Paul lived in, but we should be just as driven in our purpose to be everything we can be for Jesus’s sake. Willing to befriend, willing to offend. Uncompromising and singlemindness of purpose. Surrendering our lives and our futures for Christ.

    When we come to the end of our life here on this Earth. What will we be remembered for? What will our epitaph say?

    When we stand before Jesus, will he say “Well done, good and faithful servant?”

  9. foreverblessed says:

    After Paul had seen the Light, when Jesus had appeared to him, he changed so radically. Now he saw that the religion he had, all the rules and regulations for the Jews were only a shadow of things to come, the Reality however was found in Christ. (Colossians 2:17). He had been so busy all his life in religion, and now had found Christ, or rather Christ had found him. And all these regulation, days to keep, and things, (like the lost ark) are things of this world. They perish, but the new life we find by believing in Christ (John3:16), that remains forever.
    Forever and ever.

  10. Mart De Haan says:

    SFDBWV and all,
    Sorry that something got messed up on the link to the WorldNetDaily article on the anticipated claim by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church on the Ark. I fixed the link (underlined in the second paragraph) and it leads now to an updated article reporting that the Orthodox Church backed out on its promise to reveal the Ark today.

  11. poohpity says:

    As Christians we never die only our temporary tents get ripped, torn and give out. We go from wrestling against the flesh to our hope of Glory. I can only imagine what that day will be like to see God face to face. WOW!!!!

    The Ark is in heaven according to the book of Revelation and even if someone thinks they have found it and does not follow the rules for touching it they better watch out.

  12. kaliko88 says:

    “Isn’t it only as we share the concerns of Christ, recognize the “deadness” of our own efforts, and consciously trust him to live his life through us that we discover the difference he can make in us?”

    It’s just like God to give me another example of his perfect timing. Just before I read this entry, I saw a video on YouTube by Voddie Baucham on the supremacy of Christ. I think it answers this portion of your entry perfectly. I plan on watching it several times. It’s a lot to take in and fully understand.

  13. praisehimalleluia says:

    I am glad that we have the chance in our lifetime to have a view of the Ark of the Covenant. I am amazed at historical facts cause every time it convicts me more and more about the pureness, genuinity and originality of the Holy Bible we have today. Praise the Lord that He maintains His Word till the end of times. Alleluia!

  14. SFDBWV says:

    Mart, Thanks for the link to Worldnet. I found the story enjoyable. I have read or listened to most of the people who the story identifies as “experts”.

    I guess I was confused though about the group of people who claim to hold the Ark. I had thought it was a Jewish sect from the Queen of Sheeba King Solomon story.Not the Eastern Orthodox church. However if the patriarc of the church thinks that God built the Ark Himself, he may need to read the construction story again.

    I guess we will have to wait for the official explanation as to why it was decided not to go forward with the unveiling of whatever object this group seems to focus their worship around.

    I would suppose this is another example of why the Jew sees Christianity as Idol worship.

    Another elusive artifact from the Bible is the remains of Noah’s Ark. Some believe that the reason God had Noah put pitch on both sides of the wood, was to preserve the wood for a future time when it would be found.


  15. James C. Kelley says:

    I just want to say, I pray that all the celeberities who have recently passed had some type of relationship with Christ, even if it was right before their death, that they are with Him. I am a born again Christian, who has struggles every day with the flesh as everyone else; but because of my salvation through Jesus Christ by faith and God’s grace, I have a comfort in knowing that I can do all things through Christ Jesus who strenghthens me,Philipians- 14:’. Be advised, I was a fan of all three mentioned in our topic. Micheal Jackson had the most effect on me, as far as entertainment and my generation goes, I must say it’s hurtful just as any death. The crazy thing about it I only knew him through the media growing up; but he was as much a part of my life as my family and friends are. I was a fan Elvis Presley, and 11 years old when died. It was the same atmosphere then as it is now. As I grew up along with Micheal and his siblings, and when he went on his own, I remember stating that if Micheal Jackson dies it will be the same as Elvis, especially when his personal problems and troubles came into play and more public. I would always pray that He would make it through. One major thing I would pray would be that he would mention God, which at times he did. I know if he would have mentioned Jesus Christ publically it would have impacted so many people, than again the media would have twisted that like they do all of the time. I know this much, only God knows where the celebrities will spend their eternity and I pray they will be with Jesus and all the rest of the believers in heaven. The passing of MJ just made me want to go to the next level and seek God and His will more and more, with more love and compassion for the world. I pray and know with Jesus in my life I can look pass my faults and guilt, and others, and continue to be a witness. We must speak things into existence. So I speak Jesus, salvation in His Holy name to the all of the world, and to the three passing earthly stars mentioned in this section, and to all who remain here on this earth during this age of Grace.

  16. James C. Kelley says:

    Please forgive any spelling and grammar errors in my recent comments. Thanks.

  17. lgoettz says:

    People get so caught up in the way the world does things, even christians, that we lose sight of what our purpose is. I have been in this position at times myself. Eventually, God draws me back to him. We need to stop worrying about everything that is happening the the world and focus on Jesus and we will be able to make it through anything. Paul is a prime example of focusing on Jesus. When he had the encounter on the Damascus road, he realized he needed Jesus and left the world behind. Today, we realize we need Jesus, accept him into our lives, but we hang onto the things of this life instead of doing what Paul did and forsake this life for the sake of Jesus Christ.

  18. Rick123 says:

    As I was watching the news I heard about Michael Jackson’s death, and I heard God’s Holy Spirit say: For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?(Mar 8:36).

    The Ark of the Covenant is in a very thick box made of stone in a tunnel. It is beneath were Christ Jesus was crucified, and this tunnel runs all the way to the most holy place.

    The Holy Spirit told me, by me drawing a poster size picture of Christ’s crucifixion, his blood dripped downward through a hole where the bottom of the post of the Cross was placed. The blood then dripped on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant. Christ then entered the most holy place in heaven, by his own blood, to apply his blood on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant, where God the Father is enthroned between it forever.

    Paul lived constantly in the presence of the Ark of the Covenant, for it is the Father’s righteousness and through Christ’s blood he clothed us with his righteousness. I myself have felt Christ’s wounds on my hands and feet, it was one day that he visited me, that his Glory was so heavy, that I could barely walk. So I dropped my face to the ground and begun weeping uncontrollably. There was this other day in which God’s Glory fell upon me so strong and heavy that he lifted me up so high, I thought I was going to be raptured. I did notice that when the Holy Spirit lifted me up so high that time just stopped.

    Maybe my visitations from God’s Holy Spirit may be just a little bit of Paul’s so called…. That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;(.Phl 3:10)…..From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.(Gal 6:17).

  19. Alvis says:

    I agree with Rick123 I am a Elvis fan and Impersonator and I loved Elvis very much but Jesus Christ is my King. Micheal Jackson had many faults as Elvis did and we all do wether or not either was saved I don’t know but I remember Elvis’ Death I was about 12 but that really hit me the MJ death is right up there but I think it will fade in peoples memories he will always be remembered as much as Elvis time will tell but the way events are unfolding I doubt we will get to test that theroy as world event’s unfold in these last days which we live in. I do pray for his family and hope that once again that you can have it ALL on this earth and it means nothing. I would really love it if they discovered the Lost Ark Of The Covenant it would be the greatest find in history!

  20. HEY REV says:

    Thanks Mart. Do you take afternoon naps to stay awake at night thinking of these questions.
    I’m sure I am a little older than some of my brothers and sisters posting. My natural age is nothing, but my Spiritual age is. That also doesn’t say much for we all know some who have been saved a long time, and know not much about their relationship with Jesus. We had a guest speaker Sunday and one of the women in church sent me an “e” mail of what spoke to her.
    It is not about our training, our skills, our knowledge or our experiences, it is letting Him be God. The focus is not doing things right, or doing the right things, having the right answers or giving them. (this is especially difficult challenge for those of us who are performance oriented)
    I am joyful that God has it all worked out for all of us. I wonder how many of us would try and change God’s direction if He told us how we were going to leave this hotel and go home.
    My heart has always and will always be like the weeping Prophet Jeremiah for those who die w/o knowing Jesus as personal Savior.
    My heart gets heavy because that could have been me. A web page called gracegems.org that has been an encouragement, just like this web. I thank God for He has used you Mart many times to force me into the Word to look or re-check my understandings.
    Now about wanting to know more about my Jesus, YES, YES. When I realized I wanted to marry my wife I wanted to spend as much time as I could to be close and learn more about her. This Sept. will be 50 yrs. I’m still learning about her (and some things I wish I didn’t do) because I’ve done/said things that hurt God and her. But between them both they have made me to be a better follower of Jesus, husband and father.
    Bottom line Saints is: as you walk moment by moment with Jesus, my prayer is you will become closer too where you can see yourself with your head on His shoulder.
    Remember the little girl in Sunday school who said she can recite Psalm 23.
    She stood before the class and said:
    and went back to her chair.
    God Bless (Hey Rev)

  21. laney says:


  22. SFDBWV says:

    Alvis, you may already know that Elvis, Johnny Cash and other early rock-a-billy recording artist’s all sought recording careers as gospel singers. Many of each of their songs were Christ oriented.

    Even now if you listen to country music a great deal of it is not only about life issues but life issues with Christ.

    There is a song out there currently with John Cougar Melloncamp titled “Jesus will you give me a ride back home?”

    I can’t speak about Michael Jackson as I was neither a fan nor did I keep up with his tortured life. I hope he was Christian and I hope he finally has peace.

    Hey Rev. Looks like you may do you best thinking in the middle of the night. I liked your comment “performance oriented”. You may have just summed up my whole life, in two words.

    I had a preacher once who during every Sunday sermon would ask if their was anyone who wanted to say something for the Lord. I always considered that a challange and I always answered it.

    I consider life one challange after another, and I always answer them.

    Paul gave up any kind of “normal” life for a life of presenting Jesus to an uninformed world. His greatest challange was presenting Jesus to Jews. A challange he turned his back on but then was ultimitly what got him into trouble with the law of the land.

    Every one can’t be like Paul. Some of us have to be fathers, husbands,workers. But we can all have the heart of Paul and seek that divine relationship with Jesus. To know the Christ as friend and companion.

  23. laney says:

    I just read an article about Michael Jackson.In the article it said that Michael was a Jehovah witness and he converted to Islam.He was talking to songwriter David Harnsby and producer Phillip Harnsby a producer about their beleifs and how they thought they became better people after they converted.Michael soon began warming to the idea.An Imam was summoned from the mosque and Michael went through the Shahada which is the muslim declaration of belief.He wore the traditional dress and pledged allegiance to the koran.He changed his name to Mikgeel.The name means one of Allahs angels.His brother Jermaine is also a muslim.I heard Jermaine on the news saying something about Michael being with Allah now.He converted in musician Steve Porcaros home in LA.

  24. laney says:

    I made a a mistake Its David Harnsby and Phillip Babal

  25. James C. Kelley says:

    Still, let’s pray for them all. We don’t know what a person’s last moments was like. Thanks

  26. laney says:

    JamesC Kelly, I can pray for their families and their friends but as far as praying for the celebrities that passed away there is nothing more that can be prayed for them the die is cast they are either in heaven or hell.What did you mena we must speak things into existence.I can’t speak anything into existence Im not God.Only he can do that.

  27. SFDBWV says:

    Before Sammy Davis Jr. died he had been a Christian, converted to Judaism, and joined the Catholic church. He it would have seemed wanted to cover all the bases. I also read long time ago that John Wayne had joined the Roman catholic church prior to his death.

    It would appear a lot of people are not sure about their place in eternity.

    Yet Jesus makes it simple.

    I had forgotten about Michael Jackson being a Jehovah’s witness.

    I am glad that God is the judge of all mankind, and not me.

    Laney, remember that with our tongues we can speak cursings or blessings, that with our tongues we can destroy or build up, that it is with our tongue we can bear false witness and assasinate the character of another. The spoken word does carry a lot of power. With it we confess our sins and with it ask forgiveness.

  28. laney says:

    Iam so sorry if anyone thinks Iam trying to judge Michael.Far be it for me to judge anyone.I was also not trying to assasinate his character.I just happened to read this article about him converting to Islam and thought I would pass the information along.For all I know he could have cried out to Jesus in his final moments and I hope he did.But as far as praying for salvation for him now, its to late.I was also trying to find out what JamesCKelly meant when he said We must speak things into existence So I speak Jesus,salvation in his Holy name to all the world and to the three passing earthly stars mentioned in this section.They were either saved or weren’t.If they weren’t I can speak it all I want but that won’t save them is all I was trying to say.

  29. foreverblessed says:

    Revelation 20:12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

    Just to say that we could read here that all dead will be raised and judged, according to what they had done in life. So if a person had done a lot of good, then what do you think this verse means to say?

    To think about this question:
    In one of Dostojevski’s books, or was it Tolstoy, there is a story told: An old lady, very harsh and unloving, was dead and in hell, but in her life she had given an onion to a very poor person. Here she was in hell, and an onion was given to her, to pull her out of hell. Someone said, is it possible that the onion could hold her? An angel answered, we have to wait and see. When the woman took hold of the onion she was pulled out, but others wanted to grab her and taken out as well. Then she kicked them of, and said, “the onion is only for me, to take only me out of this place.” Immediately the onion broke and she fell back.

  30. daisymarygoldr says:

    Rick 123, Thank you for sharing your experience! It is a blessing to have such a deep and personal encounter with God. However, ordinary people like me that are engaged in the common chores of every day life of taking care of the home, spouse and child… may not be as privileged as you. How then does Phil 3:10, 11 apply to me?

    What does it mean to suffer like Christ? As a teen I clearly remember responding to these words of Jesus in John 12: 24-25: “Unless a grain of wheat falls and dies it remains only a single grain of wheat… and anyone who holds on to life in this world will lose it. But if you hate this life and let it go, you’ll have it forever” in other words Jesus is saying: If you want to live, then be prepared to die!

    Hence, for me, to bear on our bodies the scars that show we belong to Jesus…and to carry around in our body the death of Jesus means… As a follower of Christ, I must completely die to “self”. God is living Spirit… Flesh and spirit cannot coexist.

    Hence, my outer flesh must be completely removed… for the life-giving Spirit of God to fully dwell within me and I agree with Mart, that we should “recognize the “deadness” of our own efforts”. It may not compare to the painful death of the cross but then killing self is absolutely no fun.

    So Steve/SFDBWV, you are right, all of us cannot be like Paul to experience a supernatural encounter with Christ but I can certainly be like Peter— an ordinary person who met and followed Christ just like you and me… and exhorts us “to share the sufferings of Christ” ( 1Peter 4:13). Peter followed Christ till death. This I believe is the highest calling of a disciple.

    A disciple’s heart therefore, resounds with the confidence of the Psalmist in Ps 115:15: “I’ll complete what I promised God I’d do, and I’ll do it together with His people. When they arrive at the gates of death, God welcomes those who love Him.”

    Therefore, for those dying to eternal death, yes we weep… but for those of us dying in Christ we need not be overcome with tears of mortality … rather let us be filled with good cheer to gladly suffer and die for the sake of the Gospel… i.e. to give up my life so that others also might find resurrected life in Jesus!

  31. daisymarygoldr says:

    Laney, I missed you a lot…Welcome back! I agree with you on praying… Personally I’m not familiar with any of the celebrities mentioned in Mart’s post…but do remember seeing MJ on TV at a friend’s house. My immediate reaction then was that this is the exact 21st century avatar (incarnation) of the devil…and I had pleaded with my friend to turn the thing off! Sorry people, that’s my honest heart-felt impression about that eerie look, voice and dance:(

    I also agree… that The Ark of the Covenant was a replica of the one that always existed in Heaven… it also foreshadowed the new covenant that was established in Jesus Christ. In fact, His High-Priestly ministry involves the real one in Heaven which is not made with hands.

    The Ark of the Covenant made by Moses was only meant for ancient Israel and does not hold any significance for present day Israel. According to the prophets, after its loss and destruction it will not be required to remake the Ark (Jer 3:16) because the Law of the Lord will be written in their hearts, and there will be no need to keep it in the Ark.

    Therefore, today Israel is not concerned about looking for the lost Ark… but is eagerly looking forward to the day when the temple at Jerusalem will be filled with the glorious presence of the Messiah Himself… who will fight and win the final war to ultimately restore Israel to her land.

    What about us, the mysterious body of Jews and Gentiles, His bride— the Church? For ancient Israel, the Ark of the Covenant represented a living, personal presence of God—His beauty, strength and glory. It was a place that was meant for God to rest and dwell among His people.

    Today, each one of us is the dwelling place of God. In the OT, the Ark of the Covenant was linked to both death and life. Today, because of Christ living in us we are both a sweet aroma of life… and a staggering stench of death to others living around us.

    …And we also do not search for the lost man-made Ark because in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet, when death will be swallowed up in victory…we will be literally translated into the presence of the real one… the one that Jesus approached …that Heavenly one which is not made with hands.

    Let us then be constantly delivered over to death of “self” for Jesus’ sake so that all of us who have had that veil removed can recognize that God is a living, personal presence…a living Spirit …And so we are transfigured much like the Messiah, our lives gradually becoming brighter and more beautiful as God enters our lives and we become like Him.(2 Cor 3:18 The Msg)!

  32. SFDBWV says:

    Sorry Laney, didn’t mean to offend you or make you feel bad. Forgive me if I have upset you.

    I have often wondered why the catholics pray for the dead? I have ask this question of some catholic officials and they all believe that you can.

    The only place in scripture I have found that has any reference to it is found in 1 Cor 15:29 “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead not rise at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”

    James Kelly must answer for himself in what he means.

    We are made in God’s immage, and like Him we can also create. We can’t create something out of nothing as did He. But we have creative power and often being creative is the only thing we do that has real saticfaction.

    If I form and idea in my mind then are able to create that idea into a solid this world reality. Then I have created something. Albeit a painting, a sculpture, even a house or a piece of furniture. It starts with an idea and more often then not becomes something we say we are going to do. Speak your beliefs, Jesus says we must “say” unto this mountain, be thou removed and cast into the sea. If you believe, it will be done.

    Don’t be offended Laney, please. It is just that I believe what we say does have creative power.

    The eternal consequence of the formentioned celebrities are in the hand of God. As are the spirits of all my forefathers and loved ones that have gone on before me.

    I am so glad that God is their judge and knows their hearts and life stories as to why they were the way they were, and weither their names are found in the book of life or not.

  33. laney says:

    SFDBWV,You have not offended me at all.I just felt bad thinking maybe I offended you and possibly others here.I would never want to hurt or offend anyone here.I grew up as a catholic.They teach that when a person dies they can go to purgatory.The church evens sells mass cards.The priest says a mass for your loved one.I have yet to find anywhere in my bible anything on purgatory.I heard that the church years ago needed money so they came up with purgatory.I don’t know how true that is but I do know in catholic schoolI was taught about purgatory.Told to pray for people to get out of there.

  34. daisymarygoldr says:

    I’m very familiar with the Catholic prayer (did recite them in school) as well as the belief of my Mormon friends. This is what I understand about 1 Cor 15: 29: In the early Church, baptism meant death for followers of Christ.

    Unlike the baptismal tank of today, in the early Church baptism was an open ceremony done in public places. It was literally a public proclamation of embracing Christ. It meant serious consequences and I happen to be familiar with this also… because post-Baptism people were marked out for death by the persecuting pagan majority.

    This however, did not stop conversions of souls, who eagerly accepted Christ and got baptized to carry on the work of Christ left behind by the dead believers. In 1 Cor 15 Paul is addressing a false teaching that questioned physical resurrection.

    Paul is saying emphatically that dead Christians will rise up again physically… “Otherwise what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?”

    In other words… what is the hope for others who are getting baptized to replace the dead (saints)? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are others getting baptized to take the place of dead members in the Church…knowing fully well the danger (v30) that is associated with baptism? And so, in v31 Paul continues to boast in Christ “I die daily” and the death of fellow Christians did not stop him from publicly proclaiming Christ.

    Bottom line: Because of the hope of resurrection, nothing stopped others back then from getting baptized in order to carry the torch of Christ, on behalf of those who died for that cause.

    The lesson for all of us today is: Even in death the show must go on… i.e. as MDH stated above “to show the life of God in a world that will continue to grieve losses”. Just my thoughts…

  35. laney says:

    Hi DaisyMaryGold, thanks for the welcome.I got a little busy on another christian website.They have a thread for prayer requests and I always had a burden to pray and interceed for people.I have been visiting back here and reading some of the comments.Some of the material that Mart presents is way over my head for my little pea brain.The man is truly brilliant he just amazes me.So even if I don’t comment I can usually be found here just reading everyone elses comments.Iam learning so much from everone here.

  36. Rick123 says:

    daisymarygoldr: You said: How then does Phil 3:10, 11 apply to me? Ask God, he might tell you. It is not a party to suffer like Christ and to be constantly attacked by satan, and people. The last attack from satan was on my eyes, I felt a burning sensation on my forehead and downward. My vision was weakening as the days went by so I went to see my doctor. He told me that I had glaucoma so he gave me some eye drops to lower the pressure in my eyes. Thank God my eyes are back to normal, I believe prayer and praying God’s word brings healing. Six months ago I felt like I was going to die, I saw my life flashing in and out before me, I saw these spheres of light in my vision field. I was losing my sight and felt my life force going away, so I dropped my face to the ground and begged for mercy to the Father in Jesus name. To my surprise it all went away in a few seconds, I was praising the Father in Jesus name for his mercy. A lot of nights I have been attacked by demons in my dreams. When they came against me, I saw these ugly hands with long claws which went right through my heart. Sometimes they came against me by paralyzing my whole being but not my thoughts. They have done a lot of weird things. Like there were nights that I heard voices speaking to me in my dreams, even saying to me, are you ready to give up? One night in my dream I felt like I was going to die, but I yelled Spirit of God help me, and it went away. All of these times that these demons came against me in my dreams I rebuked them in Jesus name and they left me alone.

    Satan even uses people to come against me, in my family they say I am dead, because I don’t have a worldly life like them, this cousin of mine even said that I was living but that I was dead in life. I have notice that when family members come against me very wickedly, bad things happen to them. Even among Christians, when some of them come against me, God brings conviction in their heart.

    One thing I don’t do against God, is, I don’t complain against him, by saying, O God, why have you brought all of this evil against me?

    I just trust in him, and that he is being God the Almighty One, who knows what he is doing.

    At first when all of this started, I cried like a baby, and begged God to get all of this out of my life. But now I know that all of this things have made me more strong in the Lord Jesus, and I thank God that he gave me all of these things in my life, because I have learned to be dead to sin.

    Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death…17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ…And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:(Rev 6:9)
    (I know that satan is angry with them that have the testimony of Jesus’s righteousness which is expressed from his Father’s Ten Commandments. For they will always be biding, for God the Father does not change, satan and man mighty change it but not the Father.

    Satan brought this lawless rebellion to Adam, and they(he/her) fell just like the angels that satan deceived, so satan’s greatest weapon is to lie about God’s truth. When God allows satan to rule the whole world through the man of sin-he will demand to be worshiped on his day, which will not be the Sabbath day. It will be the man made law of satan against the law of heaven, the ones who accept the man made law of satan will go into the lake of fire, and the ones who accept the law of heaven will go to heaven.

    In the beginning when satan rebelled and sinned against God his Father, he broke all of the Father’s Ten Commandments. He teaches mankind to do the same, to twist and change God’s Ten Commandments.(Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:)

  37. foreverblessed says:

    Rick123: “have the testimony of Jesus’s righteousness which is expressed from his Father’s Ten Commandments. ”
    Why are you focussing on the 10 Commandments so much?
    Can you also say with all of your heart: I hold to the tesimony of Jesus? Rev 19:10
    I do not mean that you can break the 10 C, we cannot go on sinning after we have received Christ as Lord.
    But what is the guideline in our new life: Gal 5:22-25
    22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
    Against such things there is no law.
    If we live in Christ He is our Sabbath, we are always in Him, and never out of the Sabbath, and so we have fulfilled the law of the Sabbath.
    Days are things of this world. But Christ is the reality. Colossians 2:17.
    Everything in the OT points out to Jesus.

    This is getting way out of thread. But I had to say something.
    Test the spirits, 1 John 4:1-4.

  38. SFDBWV says:

    John Hagee has an interesting chart of existance. It begins with eternity and ends with eternity.

    It is a picture graph of man and God’s interaction and plans. A time table of events from beginning to end.

    In it he shows two “places” where the departed soul goes after death. One is Paradise the other a place of torment. This is explained by Jesus when he speaks of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:20. When Jesus was with the thief on the cross He spoke to the thief and said today you will be with me in Paradise. Not heaven.

    So in studying the matter, it would seem that Hagee may be right. These places of existance are where the soul goes awaiting the Judgement, where one is either resurected from into everlasting life or resurected after the millenium to be sent into the lake of fire with satan.

    All in God’s time line of events.

    Rick123, Your experiances with dreams and visions have had quite their effect on you. How long have you been tormented by demons?
    In 1 Samuel 16:14 God sends an evil spirit to torment Saul. Saul never repents nor asks God for forgiveness but continualy fights against God’s plans. Unto his death.
    God sent the evil spirit, God can take it away. Ask Him Rick, if you need to I will pray with you also that God remove this torment from you.

  39. Rick123 says:

    foreverblessed, You said: Why are you focussing on the 10 Commandments so much?…Because by man breaking them, it cost Jesus his life. Who shed his blood on the Cross to bring us back to God. And live in them(10 C) by the power of Christ’s Spirit.

    You said: Can you also say with all of your heart: I hold to the tesimony of Jesus? Rev 19:10 I do not mean that you can break the 10 C, we cannot go on sinning after we have received Christ as Lord…Just by sinning through our thoughts we break God’s 10 C, and there is willful sin too, that after we have known the truth about God’s 10 C and keep breaking them will not go well with us.

    You said: But what is the guideline in our new life: Gal 5:22-25…But according to God’s word we must live in God’s law through Christ Jesus who gives us the strength to keep it and not break it…Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    You said: If we live in Christ He is our Sabbath, we are always in Him, and never out of the Sabbath, and so we have fulfilled the law of the Sabbath…The “rest” you are referring to, is not that we fulfill it, but it is given to us freely by faith in Christ…Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

    You said: Days are things of this world. But Christ is the reality. Colossians 2:17…Days are that God created for mankind and only One day stands out among the rest. And that is the Sabbath day, which day, God only gave a name. The rest of the six days, God did not give them a name. Those who observe the biblical seventh-day Sabbath demonstrate their love for Jesus by obeying His commandments. Knowing about the sanctity and purpose of the Sabbath is vital because it concerns the basic concepts of time, life and relationships…Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD…Isa 56:2 Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil…Well think about this? we can do good on the Sabbath day, it is what Jesus said: Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had [his] hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. 11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift [it] out? 12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

  40. Rick123 says:

    SFDBWV: This has been going on for about 20 years, it all started when I accepted Jesus as my savior, a couple of weeks passed and they begun attacking me. I asked God what was happening, he gave me: 2Cr 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me…I did not ask for it, but those demons are making me suffer, I weather suffer for Christ then for sin, though people say it is because I have unrepentant sin in my life. I believe only God knows the heart of man, and it is he that gives to every person according to his deeds.

    In this passage(2Cr 12:7) we see that God used a messenger(unholy angel) of satan to keep striking Paul with blow after blow, and it was for a purpose. Because Christ was going to manifest himself to Paul in a great way, and to keep Paul away from pride, the manifestations from satan’s messenger(unholy angel) caused him a lot of sufferrings…2Cr 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

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