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Studies in Contrast #2

Sometimes the apparent contradictions of the Bible happen in such quick succession that it is apparent that they are intentional devices to provoke thought.

For example, in Proverbs 26:4, the person of wisdom says, “Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him.” The very next proverb in vs 5 says answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.”

One of the purposes of a proverb is to turn an idea around and look at it from different sides to see how situation, motive, and the needs of others help us find the way of wisdom.

For instance, in the case of these two proverbs, they help us see the error of two common responses. One mistake is to get dragged into an argument in such a way as to take on the unbecoming attitudes of someone who is acting beneath their dignity. The opposite approach is to allow fear of a foolish person to keep us from saying anything at all—which in turn only reinforces their inclination to think they have it all together. Jesus gives us examples of masterful responses to people who are walking in the dark even though they regard themselves as teachers of the light.

Before seeing how some other examples of apparent contradictions help us to think more clearly, would be interested to know whether you can think of examples either in your own experience, or in the conversations of Jesus that illustrate the intended tension between saying, “Don’t answer a foolish person…” “Do answer a foolish person…

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41 Responses to “Studies in Contrast #2”

  1. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I know in my own experience with my now ex boss that to be silent or not to retaliate calms a sistuation.
    He often came at me in fits of anger and saying all kinds of things, although exaggerated, had a semblense of truth. I could have put up counter arguements deffending my possistion but that would only inflame the whole thing into slanging match.
    After awhile of listening to his own voice, or me in part agreeing with him, he would calm down and realise he had made a prat of himself.
    Then after a day or so he would be as nice as pie and we could talk over the problems.
    Jesus was accused of many things and people tried to trick Him into incriminating Himself, but He always new when to keep silent and when to speak, like with the woman caught in adultery.
    Also in proverbs it says if you don’t know what you are talking about it is better to keep silent and then people will give you the benefit of the doubt and think you are wise. Else if you speak they will know for sure you are a fool.
    By the way, I stuck by my ex boss for over four years without him ever saying well done or thank you for my efforts.
    After he sacked me God showed me How He had hardened his heart, otherwise I would still be there suffering under bondage. Just as God hardened pharoahs heart in Egypt, else the Isaelights would still be there today. Sometimes God has to force us out of our comfort zone.

  2. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I think that timing is so important in how we respond when confronted by a “foolish person”.

    Jesus listened to and followed the Holy Spirit and never followed His own wishes or impulses.
    Like when Lazarus died, Jesus would have wanted to rush to Mary and Martha because they were his friends and He had the ability to help them.
    He did the will of His father and tarried four days, resulting in great emotional pain, “Jesus Wept”.

    We have to swallow our pride(self) and not repond to fools arguments, but then have the grace to say something at the right time and in the right way when God instructs us.

  3. wretch-like-me says:

    Bob in Cornwall:
    I can relate to your experience with a former employer. It is truly difficult to be a ‘Bob Crachett’ in a ‘Scrooge’ environment. I eventually had to ask God for help in finding a greener pasture in which to be planted. Took a step of faith and found fertile soil.

    First thought that came to mind was a ‘Damned if I do; Damned if I dont’ response. I know that cannot be how God intends me to react; but, its how I feel, today. Guess I am struggling with the ‘gray days’ of winter before the snow turns all to the ‘Winter Wonderland’ that I so enjoy.

    Responding to ‘Fools’ begins by looking in the mirror.


  4. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. Thank you Mart for this valuable subject. I say, valuable, since Yeshua instructs us to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4; cf. Deuteronomy 8:3).

    The noun, “fool” is a word; therefore, we need to define this word in order to journey down the road of wisdom and knowledge and comment on the Scriptures Mart shared with us from Proverbs, that being Proverbs 26:4-5.

    I have no doubt that many of us, this includes others who will add to this blog; have searched for this definition, but for the benefit of those who are in the beginning stages of walking with the Master, I hope I can add some more jewels to this blog. Hence, I want to take us to the book of Psalms.


  5. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. The father of King Solomon, who penned the Proverbs, was King David, who penned many of the Psalms. Two particular Psalms I want to bring to your attention are Psalms 14:1-4 and 53:1-4, which are almost identical, i.e. the sentence structure is a bit different, yet they carry the same message.

    These two set of Scriptures define the “fool” mentioned by King David. This word in Hebrew is naval, which also refers to a “scoundrel.” If you look up the definitions of these two words from other sources, we find some very strong language. A few examples: good-for-nothing, reprobate, unprincipled person; cheat, swindler, fraudster, trickster, charlatan; and so on.

    The “fool” David writes about in the Scriptures mentioned denotes a person who is morally deficient. He says, “There’s no God!” He expresses it verbally, as well as with his actions; for better words, body language. Before I go any further, we can pick up our darts and throw them at people we are personally acquainted with, those who meet these conditions, but, let’s remember where we came from, and, let’s remember that we are just as susceptible to act this way right now if we allow people to draw us into “foolish” conversations. This will make more sense as I add more thoughts to this blog.


  6. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. According to King David, the “fool” is corrupt, doing abominable works. We know that mankind in general is corrupt, doing abominable works. For example, watch CNN and other news channels and it doesn’t take long to figure this out. Or, going to the grocery store, gas stations, restaurants, cinemas, churches, homes, neighborhoods, and so on. In fact; and I’m stepping out on a limb when I say this: You may find someone manifested in these fashions right here on this blog. I don’t know how brother Mart handles this, but it could happen. If so, the Word tells us how to handle situations like this. Usually, if you come across a person of this caliber, you may find the old man rising up inside of you, but, thank God we have His precious Holy Spirit to tell us how to handle a situation as such.

    Anyhow, the reference here in Psalm 14:1-4 gives us a picture of those who take no account of God and do not hesitate to express their malice toward “the generation of the righteous” (see vv. 4-5).


  7. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. Okay, I have a lot on my heart. Before I continue, if I’m taking up too much room, please let me know. I get excited with God’s Word. Yes, even when it cuts me :-(. However, like the old saying goes, “No pain! No gain!”

    I’m going to add some comments on both verses, 4-5; however, it will take some room. I believe my comments will bless you. To me, this is what this blog is all about.


  8. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom: Proverbs 26:4 says, “Answer not a fool (Hebrew: naval)according to his folly (i.e., foolishness), lest thou also be like unto him.” Hence, if we get involved with a person who wants to argue, if we’re not careful, we’ll become like him/her.

    It is wrong to debate with fools. According to God’s Word, they don’t deserve knowledge or truth. Wisdom is to precious to waste on them. I know, that sounds cruel or ungodly. But what do we do about Yeshua’s command to His disciples when He sent them out to preach the Gospel. For example, in Matthew 10:11-15, especially verse 14, which says, “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.”

    During my 50 years of being a believer, I have heard this passage of Scripture minimized, twisted, and deleted from messages, just to prove that what Yeshua said, didn’t really mean what He said, if that makes any sense. No, He meant what He said. People who don’t accept us or hear our words (i.e., the Word of God); we are commanded to shake off the dust of our feet and leave them alone. I encourage you to do your own research on this subject. You may find your theology will change somewhat :-).

    A person who possesses the wisdom of God has better uses of his/her time. Therefore, arguing manifests fleshly lust. For these reasons, it becomes sin to debate with men who do not clearly display godly wisdom and righteousness. By us doing do, we then descend to their profane level.

    If we debate with a “fool” as the Scripture describes, he will first despise the wisdom of your words and ridicule the precious things you tell him (see Proverbs 23:9). We will degrade the truth by allowing him/her to mock and reproach it. We can see why Yeshua commands us to shake the dust off our feet when this happens. We certainly don’t want to be found guilty in the eyes of our heavenly Father by giving Satan place to mock and reproach God’s wisdom in us.

    Yes, when we begin to see what it really means to deal with fools, we also see harshness. We should never depict Yeshua as being a frail little Jew, with a pointed nose as the mockers describe Him to be! I don’t know what He looked like, but that’s not important. The question that arises in my mind is, “Was Yeshua too harsh in His ministry?” Was King David too harsh when he obeyed the Holy Spirit and penned Psalms 14:1-4 and 53:1-5? Was King Solomon being too harsh when he penned Proverbs 26:4-5? No.


  9. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. Getting back to the subject of harshness, Yeshua called people dogs and pigs – vile animals and perpetual examples of beastly cruelty and selfish greed, among other despicable traits. For example, when He was told by His apostles that He offended the Pharisees, He told them, “Let them alone; they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch” (Matthew 15:14). Wow! Sounds like they were to “shake the dust” off their feet.

    Yeshua taught His followers how to spot a fool? As is mentioned in the Scriptures brother Mart shared with us. First of all, you can spot a fool by listening to him talk: “Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge” (Proverbs 14:7). Again, we see the principal of “shaking the dust” from our feet.

    We can measure a fool’s walk: “Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right” (Proverbs 20:11). A fool has the tendency to talk a lot, likes his own ideas, gets angry or jealous easy, always makes it a point to excuse his conduct, belittles others, prefers to teach rather than being taught, wants to debate about most everything, resents authority, disdains agreements, and, he talks profanely. A fool also does not live according to the Word of God and produces no spiritual fruit, which are the absolute and final measures of wisdom.

    A fool’s flesh wants to get in the last word, or believes we can persuade him/her by reasoning (Example: Humanism). The Apostle Paul warned his people against the foolish questions or vain babblings of foolish men. Here are some Scriptures to read: 1 Timothy 1:3-7; 4:7; 6:20; 2 Timothy 2:14-16, 23; Titus 1:14; 3:9.


  10. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. Proverbs 26:5 says, “Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.” When we really think about it, a simple answer comes to mind: Fools think and speak contrary to God, truth, and wisdom. Hence, those who possess the wisdom of God must shut their mouth, lest they presume the thoughts of the fool are acceptable or correct. If a fool is not rebuked, he will become conceited in his error and turn into a scorner: “Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope of a fool than of him” (Proverbs 26:12). I’m sure we have different conclusions this verse. My thought is, before the case of the scorner is utterly hopeless, and truth lies mangled in the mud, it is good to destroy his foolish ideas.

    King Solomon also teaches us not to answer fools, or engage in foolish debates with them, or we will become like them (Proverbs 26:4). Fools DO NOT DESERVE any attention, discussion of their ideas, or answers to their questions. Yes, it takes a Spirit-filled believer to walk away; at the same time, rebuking the pride in our lives!

    Hold on to your hats! In the larger context, King Solomon forbid giving honor to a fool: “As snow in summer, and as rain in harvest, so honour is not seemly for a fool” (Proverbs 26:1). Brothers and sister; according to this verse, there’s absolutely, unequivocally, no room for compromise! Now, are you ready for this one? Solomon concluded that the only treatment that truly works is physical restraint and corporal punishment: “A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool’s back” (Proverbs 26:3). He goes on to say what a fool’s character is and the treatment he deserves in Proverbs 26:6-12.


  11. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. As I come to a close, fools vary in education and intelligence. Great fools write books, teach at the university level, work in the media, politics, or preach on Sunday. They espouse evolution, defend homosexuality, protect abortion, promote marijuana as we see on CNN lately, justify labor unions, condemns corporal and capital punishment, reject God, and/or outlaw prayer in Jesus’ name, among other forms of demented thinking.

    Fools must be shut up! Plain and simple. We need expect them to receive truth or wisdom. Why? God has turned them over to reprobate minds (Romans 1:18-28). They cannot recognize the truth, even if it shines daily from the sun and nightly from the stars and moon (See Psalms 19:1-6).

    We meet fools every day. As much as I hate to say it, foolishness is abounding in America, as well as Israel, of which my wife and I are citizens of. Why is foolishness abounding in our countries? Because no one will speak out against it. When the fools say or do something foolish, it’s our duty, as well as our blessed privilege to correct them with God’s Truth (John 17:17). But after we shut their mouths, that is, if we’re not concerned about landing up in jail, we must ignore them, lest we cast pearls before the swine and give holy things to the dogs: “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you” (Matthew 7:6).

    Yeshua was a master at shutting the mouths of fools. He discerned their foolish thoughts, and He would turn their carefully planned questions upside down. Oh, how they hated Him! And, they’ll hate us as well. When He was through, they could not answer, nor did they prefer to ask Him any more questions (See Matthew 22:15-46). Baruch Ha’Shem! Praise the LORD!

    Finally, Paul testified before Greek philosophers in Athens, the very fools that modern America and Israel worships for their hallucinations about life (See Acts 17:16-34). He opened by charging them with superstition, and he closed his message by telling them of the coming of Yeshua who would judge them!

    Blessings to all. May we all love God our Father with all of our hearts, souls, and might, and may we love our neighbors as ourselves (Matthew 22:37-40).

  12. poohpity says:

    In one of the translations I have it says, ” When arguing with a rebel, don’t use foolish arguments as he does, or you will become as foolish as he is! Prick his conceit with silly replies!

    Bob in Cornwall the dissertation between Jesus and those men who brought the woman caught in adultery was exactly what popped into my mind too. Jesus did not go into lengthy discussion with them it was short, sweet and to the point. I also think of the time when some Pharisees condemned the disciples for picking heads of grain on the sabbath and Jesus’s reply to them. Or the time when the man was healed on the sabbath and Jesus’s reply to them.

    Oh my gosh there are so many to list. The religious leaders gave Jesus the foolishness of their absurd demands and then Jesus would turn it around and address the real issues. Which all pointed back to being merciful and loving rather being self righteous. Drawing people to Christ rather than listing the things they did wrong and causing alienation rather than redemption.

  13. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    I was just going to say that you are lucky to get a white crispy winter wonderland. Here in Cornwall it does not usualy snow and is grey most of the year. We are having big storms and raiging seas as I speak.

    I wish I could follow Ron Ben Yaakov’s with some pearl of wisdom, but as a gay man who feels the universe was not created in six days as we can understand it at the moment and the right of a woman to detemine, whithin reason, what happens in her own body, I feel rather intimidated.
    If it were not for Jesus I would have been dead long ago and I love Him and know He loves me. There is no doubt in my mind I will be with Him one day, yet why do I get the feeling from the above posts that I must be just a fool not worthy to be spoken to by Jew or church man?

  14. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    My Baptismal text. (I have quoted it before.)

    “I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I’ve commited unto Him against that day”

    Amen and Amen!

  15. daisymarygoldr says:

    A very pertinent topic especially with reference to our previous conversation…All of the comments above have done justice in their approach to this contradiction: “Don’t answer a foolish person…” “Do answer a foolish person…”

    Since this is a very broad and open-ended subject there are several ways to look at it. And because this is a Bible verse I would like to consider the Biblical perspective which is to look at it from God’s point of view.

    And Ron Ben Yaakov, what you said does make sense because I was also looking at what God defines as “foolish”. A fool is the one who said there is no God and this includes atheists which some had mentioned in the last blog. At work, I constantly encounter such wise-in-their-own-eyes intellectual fools who use logical reasoning of science or philosophical reasoning of the human mind to deny the existence of God.

    My response to such thinking is: Not to answer by going down to their level i.e. I never explain the existence of God using science or philosophy and to be quick to shoot back an answer lest they think they have it all together. The answer of course is from the pure Word of God. Once, God’s truth is presented it silences every skeptic who will never approach you again with the same set of arguments. It is not that they get silenced for good; they do come back but with more modified ammunition!

    In the parable of the rich fool, the soul who sought to accumulate and enjoy wealth was called a fool. Earning and hoarding wealth for successive generations certainly seems like a wise thing to do from the human point of view, but it is plain foolishness in the eyes of God.

    Prov 14:9 says that “Fools make a mock of sin”. Isn’t this the postmodern message that is ringing all around us…each one doing that which is right in his own eyes? “It is not about doing right”, “to call sin a sin is sin”, “do what makes you feel good… do your own thing”

    There is a way that seems right but it ends in death. So how does one answer and not answer such fools? We should not answer by using the ideology of their foolish worldly ways. We should answer by presenting the right way of God, lest they think they have it all together and end in death. And that was to answer and not answer to fools who are unbelievers.

  16. daisymarygoldr says:

    Even as believers God considers us foolish if we listen to God’s word but do not practise what He tells us to do. If human wisdom is practised within the church, then such faith that is built on shifting sands will surely not stand the tests of trying times.

    So, when human wisdom is manifested within the body of Christ we should not remain silent in the name of love. God will surely hold us responsible because we are called: Not to answer by stooping down to levels of human wisdom but to answer with God’s wisdom and expose such false thinking and teaching lest they think they have it all together.

    The best thing is to follow the example of how Jesus responded differently to religious fools. He refused to answer to the questions of religious leaders whose main intention was to find fault with His person and purpose. Their heart was not to seek the Kingdom of God but was preoccupied with their selfish interests of establishing their own kingdom… just like us Christians who are always navel-gazing at their own agendas of religious works in the name of love or charity…

    God refuses to answer such prayers even though we ask them in the name of Christ because those prayers are not in accordance to the will of God. However, Jesus did answer other religious people who earnestly came to Him with questions to seek Him and His Kingdom…like the rich young ruler and Nicodemus.

    Discernment is the key in Christian conversations like the ones we have right here. Paul advises Timothy to “avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife”. Mart, again I’m not sure what you meant by “unbecoming attitudes”…it reminds me of unpleasant things and I’m thinking I will struggle with those words till the day I die.

    In my experience I’ve learned it the hard way, not to answer questions that are targeted personally towards us… this is not to avoid taking on the unbecoming attitudes of someone who is acting beneath their dignity but because that causes us to get side-tracked from God’s Word into secondary insignificant issues.

    On the other hand even though it sounds foolish, we should always be quick to answer when faith in Christ based on God’s truth is questioned lest people think they have it all together. And yes, for speaking the truth in order to answer the question of fools, we will be also considered as fools by other Christians in Church.

    This was what Paul the Apostle experienced. In his attempts to defend his faith based on God’s truths (2 Cor 10-12) against some rebellious people who had been seduced by false teaching in the church at Corinth, Paul also felt foolish in boasting of his accomplishments for Christ.

    Nevertheless he did speak up to answer their folly and concluded with: “I’ve made a complete fool of myself by going on like this. But it’s not all my fault; you put me up to it… Well, I’m sorry. Forgive me…” 2 Cor 12:11-13

  17. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom DaisyMaryGoldr. Well said. Thanks for your input.

    Blessings in Messiah Yeshua,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  18. poohpity says:

    Bob in Cornwall, I have a question for you, if the everything was not created in six days then the bible is in error, then how long did it take to create it? If a woman has the right to choose, how can the child within her womb choose whether it is to live or die? Of course then the question could be when we are at war who is given the right to take a life. It may be said that those who join the arm forces are giving their lives for their country of origin on their right to choose. Sexual identity or preference there is a choice to remain celibate or to commit sexual sin. That sin is between anyone outside of a committed marriage or those who choose to have sex while in a marriage with someone outside.

    It is correct to say that Jesus loves the sinner that is true for all who trust in Him to cover their sin with His blood. Although we still sin we try very hard not to but to not recognize sin as sin we do the Lord a great injustice. Of course it is easier to recognize the sin in another than to look at our own but sin is still sin.

  19. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Bob in Cornwall. I wish to try to get you to understand regarding some comments you shared just recently.

    First of all, it’s not my intention to back you in the corner and make you look like the bad guy, nor to intentionally embarrass you; however, and I believe you would want me to, that is, to be totally honest with you, coming from God’s perspective.

    When I mentioned about not intentionally embarrassing you, that, I intend to avoid at all cost. Yet, when I’m being totally honest with you, and you are accustomed to be reserved in certain spiritual issues, it may bring up emotions that would make you want to run. But don’t do that! Please hear me out.

    If we go to Exodus 21:12-17, for example, we find Scriptures dealing with criminal homicide, premeditated murder, hitting one’s parents, the stealing of other people, and parental abuse. Of course, the subject of murder is interwoven throughout these Scriptures. You may wonder where I’m going. Hang in there: It will all make sense! I will, however, give you a sneak preview, if you will. It all points to embarrassment, and how this is to be avoided if at all possible.

    Okay, the question that arises is this: How do we define Murder? There is more, however, to the proper interpretation of what constitutes murder. This is hinted at in Exodus 21:17, which says, “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”


  20. rokdude5 says:

    There are two areas that comes quickly in my mind about “contrasting” concepts:killing human beings and drinking wine (alcohol).

    Exo 20:13 (KJV) Thou shalt not kill. and Matt 22:37 …love your neighbors as yourself… Yet in the early chapters of the Bible, complete genocides were permitted plus similar consequences for those members of the early Jewish tribes that didnt follow God’s commands.

    As far as drinking wine, the Bible has shown time and time again consequences of drinking in excess.. Gen 19:33 where the daughters committed acts of incest. Prov 20:1 Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

    Yet on the other hand, wine has been shown to be an honored drink.
    18.Numbers 15:5
    With each lamb for the burnt offering or the sacrifice, prepare a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering.

    1 Timothy 5:23
    Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

    To be upfront, Im not a “tea-toteler”. I do enjoy a nice glass a wine occassionally with my meals but I control it…not the reverse. RJ

  21. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Bob in Cornwall. There’s much to be said about the Scriptures I mentioned in Exodus 21:12-17, but we’ll briefly expound on verse 17: “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”

    Again, you may be thinking where I’m headed. Hang in there! I’ll explain a little more about this verse shortly. But, for now, we need to note that no physical murder had been committed by having a young person cursing his parents. For a better word, insulting his parents. This insult mentioned was a grievous insult, obviously out of hatred or anger toward his parents, yet the outcome is the death penalty to the one who committed this horrific act.

    In the New Testament, for example, Yeshua describes how the hatred of another person is the same as committing murder in one’s heart. Yeshua said,

    Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, “Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment;” but I say unto you, “That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, ‘Raca,’ shall be in danger of the council; but whosoever shall say, ‘Thou fool,’ shall be in danger of Hell fire.”

    Strong? Yes, but straight from the Torah. In light of this, other Rabbis also agree. For example, Rabbi Eliezer said, “He who hates his brother belongs to the shedders blood” – Refer to Samuel Tobias Lachs. A Rabbinic Commentary on the New Testament, p. 91.

    But listen to what the Talmud states: We should never cause another person embarrassment or public humiliation. One of the sages of the Talmud once said, “Publicly embarrassing one’s neighbor is like spilling his blood.” The saying is explained in that just as an embarrassed person first turns blood red and then pale, it is as if his blood has been shed.”

    Okay, Bob, all that to say, I’m not trying to commit this act. If so, I am classified as a murderer. I know, there will be people reading this who may not agree, but that’s okay. So, let me continue commenting on some of your statements.

    You said,


    I wish I could follow Ron Ben Yaakov’s with some pearl of wisdom, but as a gay man who feels the universe was not created in six days as we can understand it at the moment and the right of a woman to detemine, whithin reason, what happens in her own body, I feel rather intimidated.

    If it were not for Jesus I would have been dead long ago and I love Him and know He loves me. There is no doubt in my mind I will be with Him one day, yet why do I get the feeling from the above posts that I must be just a fool not worthy to be spoken to by Jew or church man?

    The first thing I want to tell you, is that I’ve been studying God’s Word almost 50 years. And you know, every time I open its pages, I feel as though I’m starting all over again. In other words, I am continually learning new things, if I may use that term, from God’s Holy Word. It’s so deep and rich with wisdom, knowledge, and understanding.

    I appreciate your comment about me to Frank, but, Bob, give yourself time; have patience, and study God’s Word in order to be approved by God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

    Okay, first of all, I don’t know how old you are, but I’m taking a chance that you’re probably in the age bracket of being a son, so, with your permission, that’s how I want to minister to you. Is that okay?


  22. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Bob in Cornwall. I can’t hear your reply, so I’m going to take the chance that it’s okay to be totally open with you. Although I’m very new on this blog, I believe that others reading these messages will agree with me: We love you and we want the best for you; that being in the will of our Father in Heaven.

    Okay, you mentioned that you are a “gay” man. That doesn’t offend me; however, it’s totally contrary to God’s Word. Being “gay” is no different than being a fornicator, an adulterer, a thief, and so on. I’ll touch on this in just a moment. You also mentioned that you feel the universe was not created in six days. I’ll also touch on this in just a moment. Then, you said you felt “rather intimidated.”

    This is where I want you to feel accepted and loved, but this doesn’t mean I or anyone else needs to accept your beliefs about the denial of creation in six days, including living a “gay” lifestyle. I don’t agree with either, nor does God.

    You said, “If it were not for Jesus I would have been dead long ago and I love Him and know He loves me. There is no doubt in my mind I will be with Him one day, yet why do I get the feeling from the above posts that I must be just a fool not worthy to be spoken to by Jew or church man?”

    Bob, I praise God where Jesus has brought you from, and so on, and I’m glad that you say that love Him and that you have the assurance that He loves you. But I have to be frank with you. If you really love Him, you’ll not hesitate to leave this lifestyle, and, you’ll not hesitate to repent of your unbelief in His six-day creation. When we come to the LORD, He expects us to leave the old life. That’s referring to repentance. If we refuse to repent, then, there’s no hope for us. Don’t get me wrong, although I’m Jewish, I’m a firm believer in the security of the believer. Some don’t believe that. But that’s there privilege to believe what they want to believe. I say that with all due respect and love to those who believe the opposite.

    Bob when you say you love Jesus; this is a mouth full, to say the least. Why am I saying this? You see, not only is Yeshua/Jesus the Savior of the world, He’s the creator of the world; He’s God come in the flesh! He’s the same God who created the heavens, the stars, the moon, sun, and the universe. The Bible makes it clear that He’s the Creator of ALL things: (See Genesis 1:1-31; 2:1; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16). Therefore, to say you love Jesus, in all reality, are you saying you love God? If so, than you have to believe the Bible as it is written. If you say you love Jesus, and you disbelieve His Word, then, your confession is false.

    Also, if you really love Jesus, you’ll obey His commandments: “If a man love Me, He will keep My words; and My Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him” (John 14:23). One of God’s commandments is found in the 18th chapter of Leviticus. This whole chapter refers to unlawful sexual relations. In your case let’s go to verse 22, which says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.” Why am I telling you this? No, not to intimidate you, but to help you see that this lifestyle is not accepted by God, nor ever will be. I know there’s teachings going around that the homosexual lifestyle is one’s privilege, and that God loves the gay community. Of course He loves the gay community, but not their lifestyle! Why? A repeat: It’s an abomination in His sight! Hence, if you really love the LORD, then, you will repent and renounce this abomination. If you refuse, this is a sure sign you’re not one of His. How do I know. In Hebrews 12:6-8, the writer said,

    For whom the LORD loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

    This means, if a person refuses to repent, naturally this is a sign he’s not truly saved; and a person who refuses to repent doesn’t receive God’s chastisement. Why? Because, he’s a bastard. In other words, he’s an illegitimate child. Like being born out of wedlock.

    One more important matter I need to share with you. Yeshua said, “This people draweth nigh unto Me with their mouth, and honoureth Me with their lips; but their heart is far from Me” (Matthew 15:8). People today sing the old hymm, “Oh, how I love Jesus…” etc. But the minute they leave worship time, they go back to pig pen. I know I’ve said some things that are hard to accept, but if you really believe what I’m telling you is the Truth, I want to encourage you to call on the LORD and ask Him to open up your understanding so you can begin to mature in His Word.

  23. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Bob in Cornwall. I forgot to mention: I’ll not be returning to this blog this evening. If you plan to reply to my comments, I’ll respond tomorrow.

    In Messiah Yeshua,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  24. daisymarygoldr says:

    Shalom Ron Ben Yaakov. When I had last checked into this page, I just saw your first 2 comments with a promise to be contd…:). When I came back and posted my comments to the main post I did not get the time to read the rest of your conversation. Now that I am sitting and reading it all, it is amazing to find the similarities in our thoughts and words even though I am not any theologian or a Bible teacher.

    This is what it means to be led by the Holy Spirit that unites us to display the same mind of Christ regardless of differences in age, experience, spiritual growth, gender or nationalities. I really thank God for bringing you to this blog and pray that God may bless your faithfulness as you continue to multiply His talents to lovingly minister to the needs of others!

  25. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Ron Ben Yaakov

    it is 6:30am where I am and I have seen your most recent posts and will read them during the course of my day and reply to you, you may find as an almost lifetime Celibate gay man I understand more than you might at first think and have spent a lifetime inwardly debating these subjects. I know wihout doubt God created the Worlds in six days, but also know His timing is not our timing, as he lives outside of time.
    And yes an unborn babies life is sacred and an abortion is murder.
    I was asleep so could not reply sooner.
    I have to go to work now, but will get back today after studying your comments in full

  26. foreverblessed says:

    Bob in Cornwall, I was very suprised at your reaktion to Ron’s posts. You are a christian aren’t you? You believe in Christ, are a new person in Him. So why still say that you are gay, you used to be gay, but now you are a saint in Christ who sometimes has to deal with gay feelings. That’s why we can love Jesus. He not only died for us but gave his life to us, New life flowing through us, cleaning us reviving us, these old feelings will slowly subdue, and be no more. Because of His Life. We eat of the tree of Life!
    God bless you,

  27. foreverblessed says:

    Pooh says: Bob in Cornwall, I have a question for you, if the everything was not created in six days then the bible is in error, then how long did it take to create it?
    So this is off topic, I am not addressing fools, but misnterpretation of scripture.
    Pooh, your line: if everything that was created was not created in 6 days, why would the bible be in error?
    That is not a logical question, because maybe what you thought what genesis 1 meant might be in error.
    We have talked about that before (in four kinds of wisdom).
    But saying that the bible is in error when everything did not happen in 6 days is a misinterpretation.

    2 possibilities:
    1-The story in Genesis 1 is an allegory. It did not literally happen that way. Like for instance, on the 4th day are the sun and moon and stars “created” if it is to be meant literally. But maybe God made them to appear again, or something else is meant.
    I know for sure that in the 7 days God is also telling how He deals with each of us in our lives. We having been fools in living apart from God, and He slowly getting at our souls, by first saying: Let there be light on the 1st day., and then what did He do with us on the 2nd day? Who can explain that to me?

    2- There is a big timelaps between Genesis 1:1 and v3
    That holds anyway. Because the angels have been inhabiting the earth.
    And the angelic rebellion that happened, Lucifer becoming proud, going up to heaven to put God of His throne. There was a big war in heaven. And Satan was thrown out, cast to the earth says Jesus.
    This all happened long before Adam was created.
    See for Lucifer Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:11-17

    And then God recreated the face of the earth, Psalm 104:30 When you send your Spirit they are created, and You renew the face of the earth.

    If Genesis is not to be taken literally, some christians get very uncertain: if this is not what I thaught it to be, will the whole bible be wrong. No it isn’t, it was only our interpretation that was wrong.
    God still did send His Son for the Redemption of our sins, He still did give His Life through the Holy Spirit to fill us, to give life to a person who was dead to sin.

  28. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    Yes I agree with you entirly and yes I am a new person in Christ. I am printing out all of Ben’s comments and will study them at length.
    I find the fundimentalist attitude of some christians very offensiive, and it alienates muslims and other religions as well as other sexual groups.
    Life, unfortunately, is not as black & white for some as it is for others. To be married with 2.4 children does not happen to a majority of people on this planet and like paul was “all things to all men” in the way he approached others, we have to be careful of our language and how we approach “The foolish”
    Your way is loving and to the point, but some just speak in scripture sound bights, a bit like the Pharisees, and cause others to react. This is also a forum for deep discussion of scripture and spirituality and I accept that such “Holy language” is ok here.
    I agree if I was totally dead to self there could be no reaction, hence I will study all that has been said and let The Holy Spirit reveal His Truth to me. A fool does not listen and take heed. A wise man listens and takes onboard what is right and true.


  29. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    Just read your next post, and yes that is how I think of creation.
    There is more left out of the Genesis account than is included, and yes the earth did exist as a place long before man was created. That is what I am saying, we just don’t have all the facts and our understanding is too small. It is really not worth a great debate. As I have always said the Bible contains Truth and absolute Truth.
    Jesus etc. is absolute and there is no doubt.
    I have to get on with my day and will continue this after 6pm GMT, 1pm EST.

  30. foreverblessed says:

    After some meditation this thought came in my mind, this topic of how old the earth is not out of topic, it concerns us christians as being wise, and not foolish.
    So the topic of foolish in the sense of not being wise.
    We christians are often foolish because we take scripture too literal. We cannot see what God really intended to say. The Pharasees were like that, they saw the law being spelled out in the Torah, and couldn’s grasp the idea it was all about Jesus going to live His life in us. Circumsizing our hearts, taking out the heart of stone and giving a life to it. Living in following Christ as He leads us, and not a set or rules. The set of rules was to bring us to Christ. But I had a long time into figuring out that it was all about His Grace that we need to flow through us.

    But here now we christians tell the world the earth is 6000 years old, and that is a bit foolish.
    In that sense I will say a few words about it. Because if science tells us the earth is much older, and we say it isn’t how will they listen to the rest we have to say?
    How old is the universe? I think it is 17 billion years old, how do I know that? Because that’s how far we can see into the universe. 17 billion years ago the stars started to shine, and that is what we can see now. We look into a long history when we look up at night.
    But the universe is much bigger than that, only we cannot see it.
    In four kinds of wisdom I did write a bit more on this. It is not a mayor issue, neither are we saved by the fact of knowing how old the earth is. Scinece says it is somewhere 4,5 billion years old.
    Why can’t that be the case? If we take it that Genesis 1:1 and v3 are billion of years apart, and even in verse 1 God says He created the heavens and the earth, so between haevens and the earth was also billion of years apart.
    Does that make the bible being wrong? No, we did not see what God was saying there. It was not inteded as a scientific document on exactly how He did it. God figured that we as humans could figure that out, and be in able to read beyond the lines of the Genesis account.
    AS God figured it out that we would learn how to consider the law in the Torah, and not as the Pharasees not to see beyond the literal meaning.
    May God bless you with His Spirit and see what He wants with us, totally new people, partakers of His Kingdom of Heaven.

  31. SFDBWV says:

    Ron Ben Yaakov, I have taken the time to “listen” to all you have said. You Sir are very talented.

    I used to like to listen to Zola Levitt while he was still with us. It always seemed to me that the Christian Jews had an advantage in understanding Old Testament scripture better and so able to bring that understanding foreward to New Testament understanding.

    While you layed out the discription of a fool I felt the sting of recognition at different times of my life. As always when reminded of the sins I am guilty of, I feel sick to my stomach and ashamed to even look up.

    As an “old timer” on the blog I would like to thank you for your participation and look foreward to your insight on future discussions.

    To all… The subject of how to react to people who try to drag me into their unhappy miserable world of strife, is for me almost a case by case answer.

    For some my best reaction is to walk away and never look back. This only after attempting to find common ground in which to build upon. But if the other only wants to stay where they are…Then I leave them to their thoughts and pray the seeds I have sewn find soil within their hearts.

    Others really think they are quite special and want only to show how special they are by attempting to make me feel or look stupid. For this person I have to be on my toes and answer only from Gods word and the unction of the Spirit in me.

    The fools partner in their folly, is a master at baiting the trap. So when the foolish attact your tender spots or hot buttons, remember who it is that is coming against you. He has no power over you that you do not allow him to have.

    Sometimes the only answer to a fool is “Get thee behind me Satan”.


  32. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Steve. Thank you for your kind words. I’m sorry I didn’t answer you before now. I’m not on the blog as often as I would like to be. I really appreciate everyone’s input on this blog.

    Blessings in Messiah Yeshua,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  33. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I am about to upgrade my laptop from Vista to Windows 7, so I may be offline for awhile.
    I was going to say wish me luck, but we Christians have no truck with that.


  34. poohpity says:


    Although I did not understand your reply, (Pooh says: Bob in Cornwall, I have a question for you, if the everything was not created in six days then the bible is in error, then how long did it take to create it?
    So this is off topic, I am not addressing fools, but misnterpretation of scripture.
    Pooh, your line: if everything that was created was not created in 6 days, why would the bible be in error?
    That is not a logical question, because maybe what you thought what genesis 1 meant might be in error.
    We have talked about that before (in four kinds of wisdom).
    But saying that the bible is in error when everything did not happen in 6 days is a misinterpretation.

    I would like to take a chance to say this did apply to the topic especially how one was to reply to thoughts I believe to be foolish. Do you understand that science deals with things in theory. They have a theory about how old the earth is, they have theories about many things. To be able to pin point time one has to have a point of reference to determine an estimated time. I really do not want to debate my beliefs with you because it would seem futile since you believe as you do. I believe the bible and what it says and I refuse to pick and choose or interpret as to how to apply it.

  35. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Pooh for your reaction, it is Ok if we have different views on this point, it is not essential for our salvation.
    But openly discussing things here is good for everybody.
    You said science must have a reference point. Ok so the exact date is hard to pin point. But we have all this history laid down in the earth’s surface. So much information piled up:
    Dry periods, ice ages, dinosaur ages, young mountains, old mountains.
    (the Rockies are relative young, the Alps in Europe much older, you can see that the mountains in the Alps in Europe are much more worn out).

    If all this history cannot be linked to a literal meaning of 6 days 6000 years ago, God must have meant something else with the Genesis account.
    The hardest part to fit in is the angelic rebellion, and Satan thrown down to the earth. When would that have happened? And when you look into our solar system and you see all this debris going around, and all the craters in the surface of the moon and mars, it is as if you see the result of a big war. When did that happen?
    To say that I pick and choose out of the bible seems a bit odd to me too.
    But thanks to this blog we can quietly discuss things.
    And our salvation does not depend on it, we are all purchased by our Lord and Master Jesus Christ.

  36. poohpity says:

    jeremiah, since I believe the children’s story of creation that is told in the bible, that I worship a God so immense that in six days He spoke everything into existence, then explain the other parts that are told in a manner that takes a higher brain to understand. Probably the part that says I have to have the faith of a child to understand.

  37. poohpity says:

    It takes a higher level of thinking to understand science when they try and prove that everything came from a single cell and still can not come to any conclusions with that.

  38. poohpity says:

    I for one believe and trust me I am no where near naive.

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