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Giving Thanks In or For All

Are we to thank God for everything– or in everything?

In Ephesians 5:20 the apostle Paul describes giving thanks for all things as one of four evidences of being controlled by the Spirit of God. By contrast to being under in influence of alcohol, Paul describes those who are filled with the Spirit as:

  1. Speaking to one another in song
  2. Singing to God from the heart
  3. Giving thanks always for all things, and,
  4. Submitting to one another in the fear of God.

The idea of giving thanks for everything raises the question of the author’s intent. Writing in behalf of God, does Paul really mean to be thankful for everything– even the terrible and evil things that come into our lives– or that we do to others?

Or is the intent of the inspired text indicating that, when God is in control of our lives, we find ourselves thanking him for all of the good things he does for us and others.

Paul’s words in 1Thessalonians 5:18 give us another way of thinking about giving thanks that we might be able to affirm with more certainty. There, once again linked with being warm and open to the Spirit of God, he urges us to give thanks “in everything.”

In other words, even in the worst conditions of life, a child of God can give thanks for God’s presence, patience, grace, understanding, faithfulness, forgiveness, love…

Seems like an important distinction to think about. Even when seeing the good that God has brought out of the worst of our life… are we really thankful for the evil… or are we thankful for what God has been able to do in through, around… and in spite of?

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105 Responses to “Giving Thanks In or For All”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Happy Thanksgiving Mart, and to all fellow bloggers and readers of the blog.

    Today will be a busy one for me, as I am cooking our dinner, and still have the duties of life, that God has given me to do.

    I give thanks for everything. For in everything good and bad I see God in our life and in control of events.

    I have learned a lot in my 62 years, one of them is to take time to rest and give thanks. Not only to God but to all the people in my life that help me along the way. That make life worth living.

    I’ll check in from time to time, and may have to say a little something, but for the most part of today, I hope and pray all of you enjoy the Lord this day. For today is a day the Lord has made, be glad in it.

    Steve,Matt, and Glenna

  2. SFDBWV says:

    See I am already rattled, I intended to include a special thank you to all of you for the special fellowship you have provided for me and share with me here on the RBC blog


  3. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I posted this at the end of the last topic, not knowing that Mart would start a new one today. We have no Thanks Giving day here. I understand the reason you celebrate this event in your history and it is so good to thank God for all He has done for us, both in good and not so good times.
    I thank Him today for the community of brethren on this site, and thank Him that no matter what stage we are at in Him, grieving or happy or whatever, we can support and love each other no matter where or what we are.
    A very wonderful thanks giving to you all!

    And Ron Ben Yaakov, I will repeat what I said 30 minutes ago.

    I want to thank you again for your stern words to me over the past week or so and I have really turned to Messiah and asked for His forgiveness in my lack of obedience.
    I was also habouring resentment to my old boss who sacked me.
    It is not an easy road for me at the moment and, yes, I was walking the “wide way to destruction”, it seems so much easier than the “narrow way” to Jesus.
    I will seek out my old church again and look for fellowship. I have been alone for so long and just want someone to share my life with. Maybe Jesus is the only partner for me, He was certainly my “Love” at 16+

    May God Bless you and your wife and I wish you a very happy thanks giving!


  4. tallmark says:

    I am thankful for your note Bob. It is a beautiful thing to hear you speak of seeking fellowship again with fellow believers and, more important with Him through your fellowship here online and with your old church. Peace brother, grace and peace to you.

  5. AlbertWang says:

    In thanking God, my “thank you” also goes to Mart and everyone in this community. Happy Thanksgiving.

  6. phpatato says:

    Happy Thanksgiving from Canada

    I believe that we should be thankful FOR and IN. We must always remember to thank God for everything He has given us.

    I have just celebrated my 35th wedding anniversary. I am thankful FOR my husband who is my dearest friend in life. Together we have 2 wonderful children, Tara and Tom, both of whom have touched my life in so many ways. I am thankful FOR them, my family and my friends. God is so good to me and I thank Him FOR what he has blessed me with.

    Phil 4:6,7

    “Be careful for nothing; but IN everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus”.

    Two verses before this Paul says to Rejoice in the Lord always. This coming from a man who was stoned, beaten, thrown in prison and is facing death. What should have made him sour and bitter left him instead full of joy. He was thankful FOR the circumstances he found himself IN.

    When we find ourselves IN bad times, the secret to happiness is to unload our cares on God. It is then we will find the peace of God which passes all understanding; a peace that shall keep our hearts and minds through Jesus our Lord. We grow closer to God IN bad times. We may not be delivered from what we are IN, but we will be able to deal with it/face it.

    Why? Phil 4:13
    I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

    Be thankful IN the bad and you can be thankful FOR the bad because that is when we grow (or should be) closer to HIM. Be thankful IN the good and always be thankful FOR the good and remember it is usually during the good we grow away from HIM.

  7. rokdude5 says:

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Praise be to God!

    Im thankful that we have a God who listens to our prayers!

    What I struggle with is that sometimes my tribulations in life isnt about me. I think about Job how in spite of his woes, kept his faith in God though his wife thought otherwise. Job 2:9-10 (New International Version)
    9 His wife said to him, “Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!”

    10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish [a] woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”
    In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

    I have to keep foremost in mind is that other folks are watching me to see how I react during my times of challenges. It isnt easy but I certainly want to be more like Job than his wife, Sitis. Im thankful that the Holy Spirit is within me to help me. I know I cant certainly do this on my own.

    And thanks to Mart and everyone in RBC…theyre helping me out as well.

  8. stronger-and-wiser says:

    Today I give thanks to the Almighty God for his many blessings he has bestowed upon me and my family. There is a ‘storm’ right now in my marriage/home, and God has been trying to get my attention for a long time because I was not being obedient to his word. It has taken this ‘storm’ to show me that my faith and trust should lie in the Lord and not mankind, and that I should give him the glory, honor and praise in good times and bad. I am Thankful for the ‘storm’ because I know since he brought me to it, he will bring me through it. I pray that God continues to use me as a vessel to do his work.

  9. daisymarygoldr says:

    It is both for me i.e. I thank God “for all of the good things” because every good thing is from above and comes down from our Heavenly father (James 1:17).

    I also thank God for the evil things because even though it was meant for evil God meant it for my good (Gen 50:20). That is how I find myself thankful to God “in everything” both good and evil!

    Therefore, regardless of good or evil, I know He loves me and so let us “Give thanks to the LORD, for He is good; His love endures forever.” Ps 107:1

    Each one of you here is a good and wonderful gift from God. Happy Thanksgiving to all…from our home to yours!

  10. plumbape says:

    Happy Thanksgiving from the ape in Indy!!!

    I thank God I’m alive and have the luxury to get to know the Lord Jesus. Particularly in this age we live in today. It is indeed sad that so many will not get it until it is to late but if ever there was a time for a generation to consider the end time is close it has to be now.

    Forgive everyone in Christ Jesus

    Be thankful for everything in Christ Jesus

    Love everybody in Christ Jesus

    Can’t go wrong

    Love you folks

  11. Hisgirl4life says:

    As a parent, most of us would agree that there is no greater gift than to have your children tell you how much they love you and how thankful they are that you were their parent. Even after times of discipline when they couldn’t understand the “whys” and “love” behind it, they were thankful later on that someone cared enough to steer them on the right path.

    I believe it is the same with our heavenly Father when we are thankful in ALL times and circumstances…the good times and the bad. As he lavishes us with his love each day, and countless blessings, I can only imagine his desire to pour out even more blessing upon our lives is directly related to our “thankfulness” attitude.

    What a wonderful gift of his love he has given each of us. I can’t imagine a day without him.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all!

  12. Ted M. Gossard says:

    Good distinction, Mart. I so much agree. It’s not like God means for us to give thanks for evil and sinful acts committed. But for his good hand in all those things both in judgment and redemption in Jesus. And true even in this life, and completely in the next.

  13. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    After I posted my comments yesterday God blessed me with an income tax rebate of several hundred pounds. I was not expecting any and it shows that He really does care and encourages us when we start to step out in the right direction. Just before this I also saw a Rainbow, and I always take that as a sign that he loves me and is listening to my prayers.

    Psalm 23 (Amplified Bible)

    A Psalm of David.

    THE LORD is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.

    He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.

    He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him–not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.

    Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.

    You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.

    Surely only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

    I Repeat!
    Surely only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.


  14. SFDBWV says:

    Praise the Lord for you unexpected gift. God will take care of your needs.

    Stay the course Bob and enjoy the journey. If we, any of us, could see the future few of us would like what we see. In the short term. But we have a Book that tells us how the journey ends. All we need do is believe, keeping our eyes fixed on the Lord, and as the old hymn says “Trust and Obey”.

    Have a good day Bob


  15. SFDBWV says:

    This being the day after our official “Thanksgiving Day”, I am reminded that every day is a day of thanksgiving. It is how I start my day.

    We have an inch of snow on the ground this morning and it is snowing heavily as I write. It is hard for any of us who must deal with snow to see the thankfulness in it’s snowing. But…

    Here where we live, snow is important to the season of sleep that the trees and plants need . The snow covers the earth and protects many creatures that have to live beneath it. The snow holds the water to be released at a slower rate. It is time for snow and without it something just doesn’t seem right.

    By Feburary most of us will be quite tired of it and straining to see the warmer days of spring.

    So winter is normal and the way of things here.

    I can find thankfulness, because God knows best in how to regulate the climate. We are here in our home safe from the elements, warm and comfortable. We have readied ourselves and prepared for the coming of winter.

    When disaster comes, I have to remember that it is just another rung in that ladder, I climb toward God. Always thankful that God loves me enough to do whatever is nessesary to secure my salvation and keep me on the course he has set for me.

    I wouldn’t be a very good son if I was only thankful for every thing God gave me that made me happy, how could I learn, how could I appreciate, how would I see life from both extreems? Very little teaches, like experiance. A balance of good and bad keeps me from becomeing selfcentered and spoiled.

    Just some morning thoughts.


  16. xrgarza says:

    Thank you Mart, No pun intended :)

    I must admit, it is easier said than done, first we must teach those that we lead to the Lord the importance of this valuable principle, secondly those that are new to the faith by their own searching a mature Christian should be able to recognize them (in an ideal situation) and offer them for lack of a better word/term to use discipleship assistance.

    I was not able to find the scripture this morning that say’s “when Satan uses something for harm, God always turns it around for good”

    Not knowing this it would be difficult to be thankful for everything.

    My personal experience I have not always been able to say this but the worst thing that has ever happened to me is having my father die when I was only 13 y/o. Praise God!

    Today with boldness and confidence I can tell you that the best thing that has ever happened to me is having my father die when I was only 13 y/o Whew! Praise God!

    December 9th 2009, marks the beginning of the 40th year that my father has been gone, I have introduced this new thought to my family that perhaps God has a promise land waiting for us, and that as we enter this fortieth year, our family will begin come together in a way that only God can have us come together, and to be able to teach the legacy of who my father was to our children and grand children.

    God bless you all

  17. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. I hope all of you had a blessed Thanksgiving Day. Thank you Mart for these valuable topics.

    Mart asked: “Are we to thank God for everything – or in everything?” In order to answer these two important questions, we need to know what the Word of God teaches us. My answer to these questions is, yes. Why? Simple – the Bible teaches these truths, and that’s good enough for me. Many people, especially believers; they don’t believe that God expects us to accept that all things work together for us; even evil things! You see, the reason many of us wrestle with these questions is because we don’t understand the ways of the LORD. But we can know His ways! I’ll share some beautiful truths with you up ahead.

    Mart shared with us Ephesians 5:20, a verse that throws people. But we don’t need to panic. This verse is another jewel to enrich us. When the Apostle Paul said, “Giving thanks always for ALL THINGS unto God and the Father in the name of our LORD YESHUA THE MESSIAH…” [Ephesians 5:20], by first-hand experience, he could also write: “And we know that ALL THINGS work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose” [Romans 8:28]. What about the apostle when he’s ministering to the Philippians: “Not that I speak in respect of want; for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound; every where and in ALL THINGS I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do ALL THINGS through Messiah which strengtheneth me” [Philippians 4:11-13]?

    To answer this question, I believe the answer lies at the end of Romans 8:28, “…according to His purpose.” You see, the LORD has a purpose for everything that comes our way; whether it be good or evil.

    I chose the Apostle Paul, to briefly illustrate his experiences; both good and evil. You see, Paul took God for His Word, and I don’t believe Paul, like all of us on this blog, knew fully what God was thinking when he suffered in preaching the Gospel. For example, can you imagine how Paul felt when he was invaded by a messenger of Satan, and after asking God to deliver him three times, what did the LORD say? Paul wrote:

    (7) And lest I should be exalted above measure (i.e., pride) through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet (i.e., to strike repeatedly) me, lest I should be exalted above measure (i.e., pride). (8) For this thing I besought the LORD thrice, that it might depart from me. (9) And He said unto me, “My grace is sufficient for thee; for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Messiah may rest upon me. (10) Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Messiah’s sake; for when I am weak, then am I strong [2 Corinthians 12:7-10].

    Just imagine what this apostle went through; and, even though much evil visited Paul, so to speak, he never complained to God, knowing that even when an evil spirit kept buffeting him, and when God told him no, that His grace was sufficient, Paul could say, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose” [Romans 8:28]. We may never know what God’s purpose was to allow this man, Paul, to suffer as much as he did – it could be that God allowed all of Paul’s suffering in order to prepare him for writing most of the New Testament. Could it be that Paul was more qualified than any other writer in the New Testament? Obviously, this is true!


  18. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. I mentioned before: Many people, especially believers; they don’t believe that God expects us to accept that all things work together for us; even evil things! You see, the reason many of us wrestle with these questions is because we don’t understand the ways of the LORD. But we can know His ways! Maybe not as fast as we would want, but if we put our faith into action, He will grant us the wisdom to know His thoughts and His ways. This only comes through being a student of the Word [2 Timothy 2:15]. You see, if we’re lazy and we don’t take the time to study the Word, how can we expect God to approve us, as Paul said in this verse?

    Let’s look at the 55th chapter of the Prophet Isaiah when he penned these words from the LORD:

    (8) For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the LORD. (9) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts. (10) For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater; (11) So shall My Word be that goeth forth out of My mouth; it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it [Isaiah 55:8-11].

    Now, pay close attention to what the LORD is telling us:

    1) …My thoughts are not your thoughts…
    2) …neither are your ways My ways…
    3) …so are My ways higher than your ways…
    4) …and My thoughts than your thoughts…

    So, let’s accept it: God’s thoughts and ways are far beyond our comprehension. We can’t understand Him unless we ask Him for wisdom [James 1:5], and, even then we find blank walls, so to speak. It’s like: “Hey, LORD, You’re too far out there for us; too big for us!” Well, that’s true, but He’s always there at the right time to share His thoughts with us, and His ways with us. How? His WORD!

    I heard someone years ago say, “God’s Word is God’s dictionary! His Word defines every word in His Word!”

    Have you ever had some amazing thing happen where the LORD intervened for you; nevertheless, perhaps several years before, you couldn’t even imagine how God was going to work this particular need out for you? I have, and how wonderful it was to have my prayers answered. “Yes, He did it!” Then, you say, “Why didn’t I see that back then when I was facing this mountain of problems?” Because, it wasn’t your thoughts and your ways that was going to solve those problems: Only His thoughts and His ways were able to solve them! Even when it looked like God was a million miles away, having to wait worked out for good; did it not? Does this make sense?


  19. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. I didn’t get in on the beginning, but I see where some don’t believe that God created evil. Yet, when this is said, no one has provided Scripture to prove otherwise.

    Mart’s comments are valid about whether God created evil or not. I’ll be more specific ahead :-).

    I appreciate 1 Thessalonians 5:18 provided by Mart, where Paul writes: “In every thing give thanks; for this is the will of God in Messiah Yeshua concerning you.” Is this Paul’s way of the assurance he provides in verse 16: “Rejoice evermore!”? If we are to rejoice evermore, then, does this mean there are no breaks for us to complain and be drawn into self-pity parties and other emotional upsets that so many times rob us of the will of God? Isn’t this true?

    I know many of us don’t like to be reminded of our fall backs. But these fall backs are reminders that fall backs all work out for our own good. When we see how much we complain, and get all wrapped-up in self-pity parties, we then see the need to repent. When we repent, this is when we can take a deep breath and rejoice: Praise the LORD!

    Okay, although we are seemingly off track, we’re really not!

    We all have no problem believing that God creates all the good in the world, but does He create evil that seems to haunt us on a daily basis? We’ll see as we read the 45th chapter of Isaiah:

    (6) That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. (7) I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the LORD do all these things. (8) Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness; let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it [Isaiah 45:6-8].

    I know this is heavy stuff; especially when the LORD had Isaiah write: “I make peace, and create evil…” If this doesn’t hit home, let’s read Amos 3:6, which is confirmation: “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” Again, we see that God creates evil, even in cities. Hmmm…

    The word “evil” in the Hebrew is the word (ra’) which can also be translated “calamity.” We have to remember, however, that Isaiah and Amos are not teaching that God is responsible for the moral evil in the universe, He only allows it. In other words, God doesn’t tempt any man or woman to commit immoral acts as we see on television and in the newspapers. This is where the human race is created as free-moral agents. In other words, we all are given the freedom to make our own choices: To do good or to do evil! James confirms this: “Let no man say when he is tempted, “I am tempted of God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man; but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed” [James 1:13-14].


  20. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. As we just read in Isaiah, the LORD said, “…there is none besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is not else” [Isaiah 45:6].

    Please don’t take this as an insult, or that I’m making fun of anyone on this blog. The following questions also apply to me: Do we believe there is no other God besides ADONAI – the LORD? Do we believe there is nothing done without Him allowing it? If each of us can say yes to these questions, then, we’re on our way.

    We can start in Genesis 1:1 and continue to Revelation 22:21; and we can see where nothing is done without the LORD’s intervention. True, He is the Author of Shalom. His peace is given to us for all good, but He also creates evil as we read in Isaiah and Amos. We can’t deny that. I know, some will say, “Yeah, that’s the old King James Version!” Okay, for a better choice of words, I’ll take you to the Tanakh – The Holy Scriptures – published by The Jewish Publication Society in Jerusalem. Here’s what they write:

    (5) I am the LORD and there is none else; beside Me there is no god. I engird you by title, though you have not known Me, (6) so that they may know, from east to west, that there is none but Me. I am the LORD and there is none else, (7) I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe – I the LORD do all these things…[Isaiah 45:5-7].

    Let’s include Amos 3:6, where it is written: “When a ram’s horn (Shofar) is sounded in a town, do the people not take alarm? Can misfortune come to a town if the LORD has not caused it?”

    If we look at the definitions for the words “woe” and “misfortune,” we find a good match with the following definitions:

    Misery, sorrow, distress, wretchedness, sadness, unhappiness, heartache, heartbreak, despondency, desolation, despair, dejection, depression, gloom, melancholy; adversity, misfortune, disaster, affliction, suffering, hardship, pain, agony, grief, anguish, torment; difficulty, problem, trial, tribulation, burden, cross to bear, misfortune, setback, reverse, blow, misadventure, mishap, vicissitude, failure, accident, disaster, tragedy, catastrophe, calamity, adversity, affliction; etc.

    If it were possible to run these words in front of God’s mirror, we would see one word reflecting back: Punishment! When God creates evil, it’s not the evil of sin, but the evil of punishment. Yes, many teach and preach that God doesn’t punish His people. Wrong! Read Hebrews 12:4-10. The word “chastening” in this list of Scriptures is another word that refers to punishment.

    Yes, God is the Author of the Word, which is Truth [John 17:17], which sanctifies us [John 17:17]. He is Holy, good, and happy. But evil and misery; along with all the other definitions I provided above, they came into the world by His permission. Therefore, when men, women, and young people rebel against His Word, we can’t expect nothing but evil to come our way; but since these woes come our way, they work together for our own good that we may be conformed into the image of God’s dear Son, Yeshua the Messiah [Romans 8:28-29].

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  21. SFDBWV says:

    Ron Ben Yaakov, We are in agreement. Many times over the past couple years the scripture verses you have reminded us of have been shared. God is the creator of everything, and all things are under his control.

    Many of us have given our testimonies about how God has saved us, both in spirit and in life, through trial and tribulation.

    It seems that in summery as we are able to look backward over time we can see the intervention and crossroads God made for us to be where we are now.

    If any are in a bad way, I like to remind them that God will make a way.

    The way may not be what you would want but after going through the fire, you realize this was the perfect way, God’s way.

    We all have a sad story about life and how it has delt us a blow. But since we know that “all” things work to the good for them that love the Lord. We can expect good things at the end of our story.

    I like you Rob Ben Yaakov, I don’t know why you think we may clash about the study of end time events. I too know what the scripture says, and have heard just about every theory from students concerning the matter. Much saddness lay ahead for the world. But for we His Church He has not appointed us to wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

    6 inches of snow yesterday, looks like a pretty normal weather pattern for us….


  22. foreverblessed says:

    To thank God for everything, the good and the bad. But we must be realistic about it.
    Xavier does thank God for the loss of his father after 40 years!
    When your child has been murdered you do not thank God that same day for it. God knows that. He knows that we have to go through an ordeal to get to that point, and He will be our help around us.
    That’s why it is also important to say that it is good to be honoust with your feelings when such a tragedy happens, do not put them under the carpet, but cry out to God. I already mentioned the Psalms, they are usefull as our goudance how we can talk to God about things that happen to us in life:
    David says: break the teeth in their mouths, O God, tear out, O Lord, the fangs of the lions Psalm 58:6
    For the sins of their mouth, fot the words of their lips, let them be coaught in their pride.
    For the curses and lies they utter, consume them in wrath, consume them till they are no more. Psalm 59:12-13.
    That is pretty hard talk, but David cries out his heart to God. And he leaves God to take action, he does not do it himself. David was a man after God’s heart, for on reason because David was honoust about his feelings to God. If you cannot thank God for the bad, tell God the truth about how you feel. And then wait in faith for God for His answer. His thankfulness must fill us, we cannot fill ourselves with thankfulness, for the real bad that happens to us.

  23. foreverblessed says:

    God does not only send the bad to discipline us. He also sends the bad because we follow Christ, as we will participate in His glory we will also have to participate in His sufferings Philippians 3:10-11

    …without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you. This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved—and that by God. 29For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him, 30since you are going through the same struggle you saw I had, and now hear that I still have. Phil 1:28-30.

    Paul even asks:
    Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Col 1:24
    So there are still things lacking in Christ’s afflictions.
    Who knows the mind of God?
    But in all these things God will be our strength, and our thankfulness.
    But we need to count the cost before we follow Christ, because this suffering is in the deal.

  24. SFDBWV says:

    foreverblessed, Have you been able to find relief from your migraine head aches?

    My wife Glenna has suffered them for most of her lifetime. It seems no ammount of doctoring helps, even the natural healing processes hasn’t helped. Every treatment helps for a short period but they eventually return.

    She also suffers from fibro myalgia. Just finding a doctor that understands how to treat that is difficult enough, but most know of no cause or cure.

    Which brings Ron Ben Yaakov’s belief of demon or evil spirit’s being at the base cause as well as unresolved unforgiveness or other unknown spiritual issues to blame. Interesting food for thought.

    At any rate I do hope you find relief and are able to smile today.


  25. Becky M says:

    Good morning on this 2nd day after thanksgiving day. I hope everyone had a blessed thanksgiving. I read that it seems so. The past few thanksgivings have been blessed for me in that I have my family around me again. Last year my eldest sister almost died and this year she has found the right meds and cooked dinner for her children & grandchildren. They helped of course by bringing dishes and helping in the kitchen but all went well and they all are thankful for a healthy year. I went with my brother to my next eldest sisters house for dinner. She feels thankful to be able to cook and have people over. Last year my eldest sister and her husband and his mother joined us because she wasn’t quite up to par physically yet. Well, a lot of evil has happend just the past five years to my family and we prayed and hoped and waited and now see,things have looked up considerably. My youngest great great nephew is 2 years old and I may have not gotten to see him if I was still attending that cultish church. They didn’t want us to get together with family if they were not members of the same church. They stressed us to not eat dinner on holidays with them because that meant we were not faithful. I needed one on one sessions to make me alert to my duty and faith to God and His Son and I got that at that church. Now, away, I realize the cultish ideas but I was never baptized with them. I look at it as God letting me go thru that in my life in order to bring me where I am now. I have a good personal relationship with Jesus that I could never get at that cultish church. I thank Jesus for letting me learn this and appreciate Him for coming into my heart. I thank Him for giving me a globe full of Christian family and support and most of all love. And also I thank Him for this blog and Mart for starting it so I(we)have a place outside of our churches to be edified and have christian fellowship. I am having a blessed thanksgiving weekend. Thank you all and God bless.

  26. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Steve for asking! Yes I found relief, but in a different way that I expected!
    I had heard of the demon thing, and even migraine being demons harassing us. So that it is quite possible that it goes from father to daughter, and is in the family, nieces with huge migraines.
    So I went to a conference with Graham Powell, he is really a compasionate teacher in this, and then I went to a conference with Neil T. Anderson, who says the same as RBY. I found much more peace and tranquility in my mind after that. But the migraine remained. I prayed to God about it, that if it was a demon thing He would show me, or through christians who have a discerning of spirits.
    I very earnestly prayed about it (now I know God hears the fervenr prayer, the whole heart should be into it).
    Then God gave me that night this answer (he spoke to me through the evening meditation of Spurgeon september 28): I should keep on praying about it like Elijah did, he had to pray 7 times for rain to come on mount Karmel, but he did not waver in his faith. His faith in God grew because of that.
    And yes I can now say, thank God for this migraine, through suffering this while praying for relief: my faith in You grows.
    Yes, thankful for the bad, because the good fruit do not come in good weather but in bad.
    Who would have imagined I would thank God for this migraine, and yet I do. Because He will deliver me, but delayes it so my faith grows!
    In the mean time I went to the doctor again, and he gave me different medicine, (a tryptomaan, a receptor agonist, something like a beta blocker, but different.) And that helps, I take the medicine and for 4 days all the pain is gone. But my mind is slower now. Less blood going into the brain I think. Makes me more compassionte of people who are slow in thinking, another advantage.

    And in the mean time I pray that GOd will give spiritual insight to more christians in the spirit world. Although I hate thinking about the evil spirits, I ‘d rather glorify God that He is the greatest, the most powerfull, nobody beside Him!
    So this verse is high on my list:
    Colossians 1:15-20
    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

  27. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed, Thank you so very much for your sharing your story and for your thoughts. praise God for His love. Glenna will also read your comments. She will be able to relate and perhaps learn from your story.

    My son Matthew, still recovering these ten years from the automoblie wrecck that has left him with many disabilities. Is a living testimony to Gods love through the darkest of circumstance.

    When he first came home from the hospital, I would go to another part of the house and lay prostrate on the floor and pray, when I would return to the living room where Matt was, he would tell me nearly word for word what I had just said to God in secret. I have many tales of God’s amazing presence and power. But each time I experiance them I am in amzement and awe all over again.

    When Matt’s mother died of cancer one year after Matt’s wreck, we were in a bad way, but I never worried about it becaus I knew we were in the hands of God and that somehow things would get better. Her death enabled for us to be able to continue. Her last sacrifice for Matthew.

    Being in the light of God’s purpose, and being used of God, often comes with an earthly price, but has an unimagineable heavenly reward.

    Thanks again.


  28. saled says:

    foreverblessed, thank you for the Colossians 1;15-20 verses. I was sitting at my computer with my Bible open to Colossians 1:19+20 when I read your post. My intent was to write that we can give thanks both in and for all things because of this: that God was pleased to have his fullness dwell in Jesus, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, on earth or in heaven , making peace through His blood shed on the cross. This is my hope, that all will be reconciled, that God will restore the years that the locust has eaten.

  29. phpatato says:


    I have an arsenal of snow shovels if you need one. If you lived close enough to me, one might even come with an experienced set of hands on the other end to help you “heave-ho”. :-)
    Where I live, we have yet to be blasted with the white stuff but I know it is just around the corner. :-/

  30. stronger-and-wiser says:

    Good morning everyone. I pray that this posting finds everyone in good health and spirits. It is 57 degrees here in Tampa, and its chilly:) I just spoke to my mother who lives 2 hours north. God is truly a miracle worker. She had a deadline to meet with the IRS on taxes she owed when she filled in March. She has been under a lot of stress because she is 58 and single and ready to retire but can’t afford to. I kept telling her to stay in the word and have faith about the tax situation, well she found out Wednesday that she has OVERPAID the IRS and will be getting 97.00$ back within 2 weeks! God is good and worthy to be praised! Enjoy the weekend!!

  31. pegramsdell says:

    stronger, I am in The Ocala National Forest. It’s a little chilly here too. I am happy for your mom. I know what’s it’s like to be in your 50’s, single, and having to work. But….you’re right….God is good and worthy to be praised and thanked. :)

  32. poohpity says:

    I believe that a great injustice has been done to those who believe that they are not blessed of God in the difficulties of life. When we trust our lives to God it does not mean we have gotten a free pass from troubles it does in fact mean that we may have more but the attitude of our heart is different than the world around us. In the proces of learning to trust something we can not see but we can experience is a process. It does not mean we will never expereince doubt, self pity, grumbling, anger and many other emotions we were blessed with. It goes beyond emotion to the knowing that there is a God who is much bigger than any circumstance we will ever face.

    God is willing and able to walk us through every circumstance to the other side in victory. Reading 2 Cor 4 we find that all kinds of things will come against us but Jesus has overcome the world and everything in it. So, yes we can give thanks in all things and for all things, no matter what we are confronted with. This along with everything else concerning the Lord is a process and at times it may seem that we are going backwards but clinging to the Lord who will guides us and at times pulls us forward to become who He created us to become with an everlasting relationship in Glory with the King of Glory.

  33. Hisgirl4life says:

    This morning as we continue to discuss giving thanks “in” and “for” all things, I’m again reminded of the life of Job. God allowed Satan (evil) to torment him, not because of sin or any demon possession, but for one purpose: to demonstrate God’s glory. God also demonstrated Job’s faith, a living, walking human testiment to everyone around him. I don’t see anywhere in the book of Job where Job praised the evil happening around him (evil directly caused by Satan). Instead Job continued to praise God, even sitting in the ashes.

    Steve, your comments and compassion demonstrate the same. Having suffered, you are a compassionate witness to others who are watching, as you point others to the God who comforts and loves us in all of our afflictions.

    It is the same with all of our lives, as you mentioned. Each of us has pain; each of us has seasons of sorrow. My belief is that God is either glorified in our life during those times, or he is rejected.

    Our own faith in him during the “thankful in” and “thankful for” times can be a living, powerful testimony to a watching world. Many may claim to be religious (as with Job’s friends) with all kinds of advice based upon their life experiences and trials and yet perpetuate the suffering with a spirit of judgemental criticism. We can blame it on demons, blame it on sin, bad choices, etc. None of these were the cause of Job’s suffering. Only God knew the reason.

    As was already discussed, God’s ways are higher than ours. Who of us knows how God will work in our lives or the lives of others when called to suffer for Him? Christ overcame evil on the cross…a sinless sacrifice in human form. He could have overcome the a sinful and rebellious evil with a wave of his hand…he was God. But he chose to save us by sacrificing his life conquering over evil.

    Some of the most compassionate, Godly people I know are those that have suffered greatly. Yet, they continue to be thankful “in” and “for” all things. Truly, God is greatly glorified by a life that has journeyed through periods of suffering. Broken, humbled and transformed into the likeness of Christ, we reach to a world that needs to see Jesus with “skin” on in their lives.

  34. SFDBWV says:

    phpatato, thanks I can always use the help. I wear out at least one shovel evey year, and the repairs to my truck and plow, well lets just say it keeps me busy.

    Hisgirl4life, Bless you, your eyes and ears are open to the light of God. It is a good feeling to be in good company with such a family of believers as we have been given here.

    Claudia, My heart breaks for your suffering. I have no rememberance of what you feel bad about but I am certain that God is ready willing and able to forgive and forget whatever errors you feel you have made. I too will spend time with the Lord and ask for you to have peace.


  35. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Steve. I’m a little puzzled about your statement: “I like you Ron Ben Yaakov, I don’t know why you think we may clash about the study of end time events.” Can you be more specific as to why you would think we may clash about the study of eschatology? I have no reason to think that. The only thing I can think of that may have caused you to think this, is when I mentioned that you “pushed my joy button” when it comes to the study of eschatology. And what I meant was, I love to study eschatology with my brothers and sisters.

    If I said something else that caused you to think this way, I apologize ahead of time, but I need you to please be more specific.

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  36. SFDBWV says:

    Ron Ben Yaakov, Please no need to appologize, I evidently misread ot misinterpeted what I saw. I had stated that I too think that we are living in the last days, in your reply, I thought that you had said we might clash concerning the subject of eschatology.
    Since we seem to agree on most everything else I just wondered why you had thought we may not agree on the study of end times events.

    Nothing said by you was negatively interpeted by me or taken that way. Only courious.

    Please don’t think there is any ill will or thoughts because there ain’t.


  37. plumbape says:

    The Sweet isn’t as Sweet unless you’ve tasted the Bitter.

  38. Hisgirl4life says:

    Please remember Claudia the Bible says “there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.” Likewise, there should be none here. We are all fallen short…no stones thrown…just loving, respectful discussion and opinions. Praying for you too! God loves you greatly…

  39. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Claudia. The Apostle Paul writes: “There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Messiah Yeshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit” [Romans 8:1].

    No condemnation! This word “condemnation” carries a heavy impact; especially for those of us who do things or say things we regret. I, myself, do things and say things every day, which I regret, then, along comes condemnation. In light of this, if God’s Word tells us “There is therefore no condemnation” to us who are His children – those in Messiah Yeshua/Jesus Christ, then, who condemns us?

    Before I answer this question, a simple definition for the word “condemnation” is to be told that we are unfit for use. I don’t know about others on this blog, but when I do something wrong, or say something wrong, if I don’t act upon this attack quickly, condemnation begins to take over my faculties: My mind, will, emotions, which make-up my soul, and my flesh. If I don’t resist Satan immediately, I begin to get headaches, stomach aches; I feel totally rejected by the Father, and the list continues. Yeah, I’m being honest.

    Claudia, I want you to know that we all sin every day, but God does not condemn us: NEVER! Satan condemns – makes us feel like we are of no use, makes us feel like God is ready to mash us, so to speak. And, we can condemn ourselves if we allow Satan to plant these thoughts in our minds. First, he condemns us, then, he backs off and watches us. If we don’t do anything, he condemns us again, then, he backs off and watches us. I know this from what Peter warned the elders about in Jerusalem: “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, SEEKING (i.e., try to find; look for; hunt for, etc.) whom he may devour…” [1 Peter 5:8].

    For as long as you’re involved on this blog, you’re going to make mistakes, and so am I, and so are the others who write their comments here. We’re going to make mistakes as long as we’re here on earth. Oh, yes, we may learn not to make the same mistake again, but there will pop-up another one; and another one, and another one. I wish it wasn’t that way, but it will be until our LORD takes us home.

    All this to say: God doesn’t love you any less than the love written in His Word, nor do we love you any less. So, rejoice and be glad in Him! Learn to resist the devil and he will flee from you. James wrote: “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you” [James 4:7]. Peter wrote: “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour; whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same AFFLICTIONS are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world” [1 Peter 5:8-9].

    That’s exactly what Satan is doing to us, and all our brethren throughout the world: Causing afflictions, meaning, he and his kingdom of darkness (demons) are constantly causing pain and distress in the lives of God’s people, but Satan and his emissaries are the losers. We are those equipped to overcome. Praise His holy Name!

    So please know that you are loved; by God and by us :-).

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  40. Ron says:

    Been lurking in the background for several months. Thought that maybe now would be a good time to come to the surface.

    Regarding the original question – Should we be thankful “for” or “in” everything? –

    1. We are told to count it all joy when we are persecuted for Christ’s sake

    2. We are told that all things work together for good…to those who are called…

    3. We are told that we are being created into the image of Christ Jesus

    It seems to me that the intent of scripture is that there is much to be thankful for in every circumstance that comes our way.

  41. Ron says:

    sorry. meant to say “for and in”

  42. xrgarza says:

    foreverblessed, you are absolutely correct, it took me well over 20 years to even begin to recognize the hint of a potential blessing.

    It appears that our churches across this nation have really been focusing on small groups recently and due to my time constraints this medium has become my small group. Has the thought of having some sort of non-virtual get together/reunion ever crossed your mind?

    If so I would be interested in attending, simply to have the opportunity to meet my brothers and sisters and fellowship with them in person, just a thought that has recently crossed through my mind.


  43. SFDBWV says:

    To observe life and recall history brings many thoughts concerning being thankful about every event.

    I truly believe that all things work to the good for them that love the Lord. I do.

    So I can look at my own life and circumstances and see that in spite of the dark days, there is light at the end of the tunnel, behind every dark cloud is a silver lining, that after the rain comes the rainbow.

    Yet I can look at disaster on a large scale and still wonder where is the good found in this. The Titanic comes to mind. All thoes people drowned in the icy North Atlantic; all had hopes and dreams and lifes desires taken from them in an apparent accident. as a youngster, at the wax museum in DC, I remember seeing a display of the sinking showing four clergymen who stayed on board the sinking ship having given up their seats on a life boat to others. I wonder how many people wondered about their sacrifice?

    Had there not been the fall of man, there would not have been a need for a savior.

    Had there not been an Islam, there would have not been a crusades, without the crusades, then England would not have been in control of the holy lands at the end of WWII. Without Hitler there would have been no holocost, without the holocost the world would not have been under the feeling of shame and guilt, without this attitude, the return of the Holyland to the Jew would not have occured. Without the return of Israel as a nation the stage would not be set for the end of the age, and return of Jesus Christ and all that it brings.

    Am I thankful for all the death and suffering that has occured in this world? No I am not, but I must remember that it is about God and all will be made right through Him, for that I can be thankful.

    Morning thoughts


  44. kaliko88 says:

    Well, I try to be thankful for and in all things. When I am paying attention, even in the worst times or when I have really messed up, I am thankful. Because I know He is there through it all and He still believes in me. It’s one of the reasons Psalm 100 is my favorite. Needless to say, I try but am not always successful, especially since I’ve been messing up a lot lately.

  45. pegramsdell says:

    I had to get my transmission worked on. It cost me $1254.95! Wow….didn’t need that right now. But, I know that God is good. My transmission did need working on. I thanked Jesus when this happened, because I was praying that God would fix my car. So….even though I was like….oh, man I really don’t need this right now, I actually asked for it.
    Someone at work asked me how was it going, and I told him my car was in the transmission shop and he said, good, now you’re gonna have a new transmission. What a way to look at it. Made it a lot easier to take.
    I guess we can thank Him in everything, cause we know He is working it out for our best, or His best.

  46. poohpity says:

    It seems like the we think that God can and will work through the evil but are we thankful for evil? I have really been giving this some thought and now I am confused. I know all the things that happen when God touches evil and turns it to good but can I really be thankful for evil. I have been wrestling with this thought and still have not come to a conclusion even when I know that God can use it to benefit His kingdom. Sometimes it seems that the pat answer is not always pat.

  47. poohpity says:

    I think I will be thankful to God in everything yet because evil is not from God I will not be thankful for it. So my thanksgiving is for the trust I have in God in and for what He can do not for the evil itself.

  48. Loretta Beavis says:

    About evil …
    … my learning is, so far, that Satan didn’t start out evil nor as Satan-he was “Lucifer” a being created perfect (as was Adam & Eve) until iniquity was found within him.

    It points to Lucifer having a free will. God didn’t create evil, the iniquity came after. He wanted to BE GOD and still does. He (and his “angels”) deceives the whole world and works / enters (spiritually) people, spreading his hate for God, his enemy. As in King Saul, Judas Iscariot (Luke 22:3), Peter (Luke 22:31), he will enter the person who is the Anti-Christ. (Yet, it is still God who is in control).

    So, I don’t thank God for evil. He didn’t create it. I thank Him for walking with me THROUGH the valley of the shadow of death … . He doesn’t make me stay there (has great pastures ahead to restore me) but we have free will … don’t stay in the valley!

    Perhaps the father of lies (John 8:43-44) succeeds in confusing us when we are distracted from drawing near to God in prayer, listening to His response and studying the Bible. I was confused far too much of my life.

    Some of the KJ scriptures (except 1Sam says “evil” the KJ says “distressing” the Hebrew word is “Ra”:
    Isa 28:13 and on; Isa 14:12 and on; Luke 10:18; 1 Sam 16:14-16 Eph 2:2; Rom 1:18; Rev 12:9-10;

    I love my Jesus, ’cause He first loved me.

  49. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Loretta. I want to encourage you to read my comments regarding as to whether God created evil or not. You’ll have to scroll back up a few times to find my comments. All that I share is scriptural.

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  50. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Loretta. In order to make it somewhat easier for you to find my comments, here’s the order they begin and end:

    November 27, 2009 9:00 P.M.
    November 27, 2009 9:29 P.P.
    November 27, 2009 10:12 P.M.
    November 27, 2009 11:13 P.M.

    Hope this helps, and please be open-minded to the Holy Spirit as you read these comments. You may not agree, but at least read them. I can remember a few years back when I was in the same frame of mind about God creating evil.

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  51. sitsathisfeet says:

    Greetings to my brothers and sisters in Christ, and to the faithful followers here. I am thankful to the Lord for his faithfulness, he is so faithful, even when I am not faithful, I amm thankful for his salvation plan for me and the world, for loving me, I am thankful for his character, his enduring and everlasting promises. I am thankful that he is near, and we can call on him. What do I have except that which is given me by God? I am thankful for every breath and every step in which the Lord is seeing me through. I am so thankful he has given us his regenerative Holy spirit, and has transformed and renewed our minds through his Word. I am thankful for the hope we have in Him. I have been off-line for eight months or so, and expect to be off a while longer, but immersing myself in his word and study. I feel rather like I’ve been on the mission field in some ways. Over the last year I have been so awed by what the Lord has done , but even beyond that just who He is. I just have a couple of prayer requests from the last few months, though even now the Lord is moving I’m sure – my daughter was injured overseas in the Navy, while she was on leave, not on a mission and is now recouperating stateside, however she is having a tough time – her right foot was crushed and the heel is not healing, and the drs say she is expected to have lifelong pain, so I have been praying for her emotionally, spiritually, and physically. We don’t know if she’ll be discharged yet or not. Prayers would be much appreciated. Also my sister and nephew who don’t know the Lord, I have been ministering to recently, pray please for salvation. And finally for reconcilliation with one of my son’s family, with the whole family. Thanks and praise to the Lord and all of you whom I miss. With Christ’s love, may the Lord’s blessing abound to you all. Janice

  52. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Janice. May the LORD intervene in all your requests! He is faithful, and when we, as His family, join together in faith, we will see your prayers answered. As Yeshua said, “…If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, ‘Remove hence to yonder place;’ and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you” [Matthew 17:20]. Mountain of healing, salvation, and reconciliation: “Be removed in the lives of those mentioned by Janice! In Yeshua’s name. Amen!”

    Love in Messiah Yeshua,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  53. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Janice. I’m sorry. I usually don’t do this, but I left out some words in my prayer: “Mountains of any doubt for the healing, salvation, and reconciliation; be removed for the benefit of those mentioned by Janice! in Yeshua’s name. Amen!” I really look forward to hearing about God’s intervention in these requests given.

    Love in Messiah Yeshua,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  54. Fleischa2@yahoo.com says:

    I am so thankful for so many things…my son, my sight, the warm sun and everything I experience. However, it’s been the most difficult time of my life. My mother passed away suddenly in February this year (2009), then my husband left me and my son to move back up North in June (2009) and I lost my job in August (2009). I live here in Marietta, GA alone with my 12 year old son. I don’t know what the Lord has planned for us but I pray and try to wait patiently. It’s been extremely hard and I don’t want my son to really know how bad it all is. I just keep my eyes fixed on the Lord and wait for his directions. Many from neighbors to church members have help with food and prayers. Please pray for us.

    In Jesus’s name
    2 of God’s children here in Marietta GA

  55. poohpity says:

    RBY, you stated, “Shalom. I didn’t get in on the beginning, but I see where some don’t believe that God created evil. Yet, when this is said, no one has provided Scripture to prove otherwise.” I would ask how a Holy God who can not even come in contact with unholy things could create evil? It would seem that the very start of evil separating us from the presence of God was in Gen 3:5 when the serpent lied to Eve. 1 Thess 5:22 tells us to stay away from evil so that we can be fully devoted to God (v23). When evil exploded in the population of the earth in Gen 6:5,6 it grieved the Lord and He destroyed all except those pleasing to God i.e. Noah and family. I would tend to think that where evil is present that would cause separation from God. This is not saying however that God can not turn the tides of evil into good which is evident through out biblical history till present day and the greatest overcoming of evil was done at the Cross.

    So Mart’s original question was, “Even when seeing the good that God has brought out of the worst of our life… are we really thankful for the evil… or are we thankful for what God has been able to do in through, around… and in spite of?”

    So although God’s ways are not our ways I still do not believe it was God who created evil because it separates us from Him and all through out scripture all God wants is for us to have a close relationship with Him. It would be nice rather than pointing people to your comments it would be nice to point them to the bible so that they may learn with the help of the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truths.

    Hey sitathisfeet, it has been a long time and my heart is grieved to hear of the trails you and your family are in the midst of. I will pray for the Lord’s will to be done and for His Peace to overcome your family at this time. Please lean on God and trust in His provision we have a mighty, loving God. Really good to hear from you and keep us informed if you can. Tell your daughter thank you for serving. I will pray for your strength to continue, know you are loved.

    Welcome. I also lost my mom this year and know of your sorrow. I pray for the Lord’s continued meeting of your needs and during this time that your relationship to Him grow closer than it has ever been before. Your son can see all that is happening and honesty will help both your relationships and dependence on God grow in talking and praying together. Please let us know how things are going.

  56. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom poohpity. I encourage you to read my comments as follows:

    November 27, 2009 9:00 P.M.
    November 27, 2009 9:29 P.M.
    November 27, 2009 10:12 P.M.
    November 27, 2009 11:13 P.M.

    In these comments, I’m simply commenting on the proof that God did create evil. Start with Isaiah 45:7, where it is written, “I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the LORD do all these things.” Also read Amos 3:6, “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” I explain in these comments about the Hebrew words, and their meaning.

    If you read these Scriptures and set aside all preconceived ideas, you will understand what the Holy Spirit is saying. As I mentioned in my comments, Isaiah 45:7 is not teaching that God is responsible for the moral evil in the universe, that includes the Scriptures you mentioned above: Genesis 3:15, 1 Thessalonians 5:22, and Genesis 6:5-6. All this He allowed, and still allows it!

    From your response, it appears you didn’t take the time to read my comments. If you just skim over them, that’s what you’ll get, but if you read them, and pray over them, you’ll see clearly what Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6 is really teaching us. In my comments, I explain carefully the evil that Satan and his demons bring our way in order to cause us to rebel against God’s commandments. This is why Paul tells us to abstain from all appearance of evil [1 Thessalonians 5:22]. Here is where our freedom to make moral choices enters the picture. We are free-moral agents. In other words, we have the freedom to make our own choices, whether we yield to evil, or abstain from it. If we yield to Satan’s evil temptations, this is where the calamity effects our lives. It’s true: The Bible clearly states that God allows evil to come our way if we rebel against His Word. Another word for evil is “calamity” which I explained quite clearly.

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  57. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom poohpity. I want to also remind you about the incident in the book of Job, where it says,

    (6)Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. (7) And the LORD said unto Satan, “Whence comest thou?” Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, “From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.” (8) And the LORD said unto Satan, “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?” (9) Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, “Doth Job fear God for nought? (10) Hast not Thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. (11) But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse Thee to Thy face.” (12) And the LORD said unto Satan, “Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.” SO SATAN WENT FORTH FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD [Job 1:6-12].

    One of your statements was: “I would ask how a Holy God who can not even come in contact with unholy things could create evil?” If you’re right, then, tell me: “How was it that the LORD allowed Satan to stand in His presence and accuse Job, a righteous and God-fearing vessel, then, Satan was given permission to bring havoc into Job’s life, but was not allowed to kill him? In fact, I believe Satan is still going before the LORD accusing His children, else, why is it that the Apostle John wrote: “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an ADVOCATE with the Father, Yeshua the Messiah the Righteous…” [1 John 2:1].

    Another word for “advocate” would be an attorney or lawyer; one who defends someone in court. This is exactly what Yeshua is doing for us who are accused day and night by Satan. Much more could be said, but to say that God isn’t in contact with unholy things; Satan is surely unholy, and the time will come when he will be cast down, for John said, “And I heard a loud voice saying in Heaven, “Now is come salvation, and strength, and the Kingdom of our God, and the power of His Messiah; for the ACCUSER (i.e., Satan, the one who also accused Job)of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night” [Revelation 12:10]. This is still to be fulfilled.

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  58. Loretta Beavis says:

    Well, it’s tough to risk one’s “self” and comment on a blog. I read this blog everyday, sometimes more than a few times. and I read all the comments; I even re-read the topic and comments. It’s so awesome to have such a world-wide conversation. (We don’t even know if we are really talking to who people write/blog say they are :)

    So, I just expressed my belief. Isa 45:7 is one of those things I can’t define yesterday or today but maybe in the future, the Lord will let me know. I only have a small lexical aid for OT & NT words and the KJ I have used “evil” and didn’t give an extended definition of Ra that specified its intent in 45:7. My NKJ uses “calamity.” I avoid going too far with definition translations because I don’t want it too become a persons definition. But it is interesting to me that two close translations used a different word for Ra. I have an ancient Webster’s dictionary that defines calamity as: deep trouble or misery; any extreme misfortune bringing great loss or sorrow; disaster.

    I try to make my comments brief; but I suppose brevity can be a disaster for communication. My JW neighbors say the Trinity (I think they mean the word itself) isn’t found anywhere in the Bible.

    My point was I don’t believe God created evil, that it was an iniquity found in a perfect creation of free will, Lucifer, who is a free moral agent (Ezek. 28:13-15). And because he said he wanted to be “like the most High” (Isa. 14:12 and on) is the enemy of God and is the Evil One.

    I just believe that creation of evil on purpose vs. allowing evil are two different categories. If I didn’t consider this discernment, I couldn’t trust God’s unconditional love for me.

    I appreciate the responses.

    Cast your cares on Him.

  59. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Loretta: Do you believe Mart De Haan is who he says he is? What does the comments have to do with the names people give on this blog? That’s their choice what names they choose to use. The name I use is my Hebrew name. I am an Israeli. I have dual citizenship, both with America and Israel. No, my Jewish heritage has nothing to do with my relationship to God as His child, my relationship to God has to do with the salvation I have in Yeshua my Messiah, and your Messiah, and the Messiah of every one else who’s involved in adding their comments to this blog. If you doubt others, whether they are making-up what they share on this blog, this is your problem, not theirs’.

    To me personally, it’s not a risk to share from God’s Word. I share it because I love people, and what He teaches me, I, in return, want to teach those who appreciate the Word. I don’t claim to know everything, because I don’t. Plain and simple!

    You’re comment about you trying to make your comments brief is obviously your way of saying my comments are taking up space. This is an amazing analysis, since God’s Word is an extensive read, to say the least. I know people who will spend hours watching television and think nothing of it, yet, when someone presents a subject that may take half and hour, or an hour, this is too much time. It’s become a real problem in worship services, that if a pastor preaches over 15 to 30 minutes, people complain.

    If others are willing to tell me my comments are taking up too much room on this blog, I will be more than glad to remove my registration in order to not cause any division. I have read other hints from various participants on this blog, indicating that my comments are too long.

    I would suggest that anyone who would like for me to leave this blog, please contact Mart and request that he ask me to leave.

    I don’t plan to argue with anyone. If Mart tells me to leave, I’ll leave with all due respect and love.

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  60. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. Good night to all, and have a blessed upcoming week.

    Blessings and love in Messiah Yeshua,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  61. Hisgirl4life says:

    Janice and Fleischa…May you have the honesty to cry out to your Heavenly Father, the faith to feel Jesus breath upon your face, and the strength to walk this journey together with Him. Be comforted by His word: “The LORD is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble. Those who know your name will trust in you, for you, LORD, have never forsaken those who seek you.” (Psalm 9:9-10). “You are the helper of the fatherless” (Psalm 10:14); “You hear, O LORD, the desire of the afflicted; you encourage them, and you listen to their cry, defending the fatherless and the oppressed, in order that man, who is of the earth, may terify no more.” (Psalm 10:17). Be encouraged you are loved and prayed for…

    Back to our discussion…I find it interesting almost the same topic is posted today on Bible.com under the daily devotion. In Genesis God talks specifically about creating everything. In the second chapter, God references the trees in the garden…”In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” God later gave Adam and Eve specific commands. “You are free to to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.” (Gen 2:16-17).

    God was here from the beginning. He created everything, but this passage again gives evidence of our own free will to choose evil (sin). Yes, Satan’s desire was to be great like God. He used temptation and lies to sway Adam and Eve to sin…and of course, we all know the rest of the story. The serpent was cursed, Eve was punished with painful childbearing and Adam was cursed with painful toil.

    Even while Jesus was dying on the cross, God couldn’t bear the evil and turned away. I believe it was a time God cried…for His son, for us, for the mess we made of His perfect creation.

    God is the great I AM. He sees our lives from beginning to end. He knows the number of hairs upon our head, sees what lies ahead, saw us in the womb, counted our fingers and toes and knows the day Jesus will return when every knee will bow.

    Could it be possible for all of us to conceive the idea that God already knew Eve would offer the apple to Adam? Can we perceive the Word was already planned out? “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made, without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.” (John 1:1-5)

    Could it be God already knew evil would began in all of our hearts? Jesus knew Judas would betray him. He even knows the names of those who will enter the kingdom… “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15).

  62. daisymarygoldr says:

    Bob in Cornwall, I am so thankful to the Lord for leading you back to His narrow way and wanted to let you know that you are in my prayers…

    Janice, thank you for taking the time to drop-in and share some nuggets of wisdom! They were greatly missed and you are always in my thoughts. It is such a pleasure to know a faithful woman of God like you! Hope you and your little one are doing well. Praying for your daughter’s healing and also for the salvation of your sister and nephew…

    Fleischa2, praying for God to open the windows of heaven and abundantly bless you and your son with all His goodness and mercies…

    Ron Ben Yaakov, I am very thankful that I get to learn so much from your extensive comments and I’m sure all the others here also feel the same. Your sharing from God’s Word has been a great blessing to all. Remember that it is the Lord who has led you to this place and teaching his Word is His gift to you. Stay faithful and keep posting!

    To add some more thoughts on giving thanks to God: “Thank you…seems so inadequate”-MDH in “Inexpressible Remembrance”

    Been thinking about what thanks shall I render to the Lord for all His benefits towards me? In response to all that the Lord has done for me the Psalmist inspires me to “lift up the cup of salvation and… pay my vows to the Lord, yes, in the presence of all His people”. Psalm 116:12-14

    The Bible says that this cup contains both pain due to evil and pleasure due to good. Jesus drank of this cup (Jn 18:11) and He also assured His disciples, “You will indeed drink My cup” (Matt 20:23).

    To pay my vows refers to faithful covenant fidelity as mirrored in a marriage…which means to stay true to God and His Word for all the days of my life. It is only by faithful obedience to our Heavenly Father’s Word, we show inexpressible gratitude to the Lord for all His countless benefits towards us!

  63. daisymarygoldr says:

    Bob in Cornwall, I am so thankful to the Lord for leading you back to His narrow way and wanted to let you know that you are in my prayers…

    Janice, thank you for taking the time to drop-in and share some nuggets of wisdom! They were greatly missed and you are always in my thoughts. It is such a pleasure to know a faithful woman of God like you! Hope you and your little one are doing well. Praying for your daughter’s healing and also for the salvation of your sister and nephew…

    Fleischa2, praying for God to open the windows of heaven and abundantly bless you and your son with all His goodness and mercies…

    Ron Ben Yaakov, I am very thankful that I get to learn so much from your extensive comments and I’m sure all the others here also feel the same. Your sharing from God’s Word has been a great blessing to all. Remember that it is the Lord who has led you to this place and teaching his Word is His gift to you. Stay faithful and keep posting!

    To add some more thoughts on giving thanks to God: “Thank you…seems so inadequate”-MDH in “Inexpressible Remembrance”

    Been thinking about what thanks shall I render to the Lord for all His benefits towards me? In response to all that the Lord has done for me the Psalmist inspires me to “lift up the cup of salvation and… pay my vows to the Lord, yes, in the presence of all His people”. Psalm 116:12-14

    The Bible says that this cup contains both pain due to evil and pleasure due to good. Jesus drank of this cup (Jn 18:11) and He also assured His disciples, “You will indeed drink My cup” (Matt 20:23).

    To pay my vows refers to faithful covenant fidelity as mirrored in a marriage…which means to stay true to God and His Word for all the days of my life. It is only by faithful obedience to our Heavenly Father’s Word, we show inexpressible gratitude to the Lord for all His countless benefits towards us!

  64. Loretta Beavis says:

    Firstly, please accept my apology to anyone I have upset, hurt, offended or anything synonymous to that.

    When I began attending this blog, quite awhile ago, I said something about how cool it was- this medium, the cyberspace, was a place where you don’t have to run out of ink or paper.

    I then noticed my posts were long and not always sticking to topic or organized enough or had typos and stuff. So I started observing what responses were kind of easy for me to follow and tried to model that. Now I’m going to write them out first. For me, too short is as disastrous as long. I’ve also had the computer drop the connection one times to many.

    I responded to what I understood the topic question to be “are we really thankful for the evil … or are we thankful for what God has been able to do in, through, around and in spite of ” and to the statement “seems like an important decision to think about.”

    My response(s), and reflection, was my belief about evil and what God does for me/us-like walking with us and leading us (the sheep thing).

    It probably isn’t a good idea to lump all the scripture references together-I even messed up with an Isa when it was Ezek. I need to find a re-usable statement for describing how / that other languages have nuances of meaning depending on where they are placed in a sentence or how the word represents more of an idea than an exact and always the same definition.

    It is scary to share my belief on this blog. I used the third person grammar previously. I apologize; perhaps more “I’s” are better for my style of writing.

    My comment about not knowing who people really are in an artificial sort of environment stands. It takes time to develop relationships on a blog. Some of the bloggers seem to have ordinary face-to-face contact outside of the blog. Others are oceans away. Some get discouraged and quit. I have been holding back on comments … rather than quitting… maybe the write it out first approach will help me.

    I will humbly apologize to anyone for anything else necessary or if I’ve missed something-

    I love my Jesus ’cause He first loved me. I cast all my cares on Him ’cause He cares for me.

  65. Mart De Haan says:

    Good morning, all, thanks so much for once again making this such a good discussion. Am thankful for all of you who participate– and also for those of you who just check in from time to time.

    Am glad our conversation has repeatedly clarified that when God says he creates “light and darkness, good and evil” (Isa 45:7; Amos 3:6) we have seen that this does not mean that God does (or is the source of) evil (i.e. as something that is contrary to his light and love).

    Even though the idea may be beyond our ability to understand,(and as a number of you have said) the God of the Bible, for his own good purposes, allows evil on a small and large scale so as to give us real personhood, limited freedom, and the opportunity to find his comfort and security in the presence of the human and Satanic rebellion that is so contrary to him.

    In this regard the Believer’s Bible Commentary quotes scholar Delitzsch as saying,“Undoubtedly, evil as an act is not the direct working of God, but the spontaneous work of a creature endowed with freedom.”

    As a heads up, I’ll plan to post a new discussion starter by tomorrow morning.

  66. foreverblessed says:

    Steve, say hello to your wife, I am praying for her.

    Ron, keep on posting. They are lengthy, just like sermons, but thats alright to me.
    Maybe you could show you yourself are reading all the comments the rest of us post. Because Pooh was meaning that God is not the authur of the moral evil, the same thing is what you said in your comments.
    In my opinion there is no disagreement between the two of you.
    You explained that the evil in Isaiah 45:6-8 is meant Ra, calamity. To teach us to turn from our wrong ways.
    And I agree with that, and many have said that too.

    But did you read my comment on november 28 8.20 am?

  67. foreverblessed says:

    Just read this verse, Romans 5:1-5 (NIV)
    1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

  68. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed, Bless you and thank you. Glenna is always moved by the prayers that are offered up for her.I am a firm believer in the power of prayer, as it is a dual blessing.

    RBY, Dear friend may I offer you a small verse of scripture upon which to build by comments?

    Proverbs 8:33 “Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.”

    It is my wish that you could hear the tenderness of my voice and see the love in my eyes as I speak through this medium. But you will have to trust me that this is the case.

    Be patient with others here on the blog, please understand, that everyone here is different but all seeking Christ and the fellowship of others.

    Don’t be so anxious to threaten to leave just because you have misinterpeted someones comments or that what you may have or have not said has been misinterpeted as well.

    We all are burdened with being ,still, human and some of us may suffer from various reading difficulties.

    As you stay with us you will see that many verses of scripture get posted and reposted over and over again, by various people, concerning many differing topics. It is after all their turn to speak, and they have every right to express themselves as well as they can.

    All this includes you. We are after all, all parts of one body. All coming together to compliment each other and lift up the face and nature of Christ.

    I am only saying this to you so that you will not be so quick to be offended and so quick to strike back. I said before that I like you, and I do. If I didn’t, I would say nothing to you at all.

    In Christs Love


  69. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom foreverblessed. Yes, I read your comment :-). Why are you asking? I read all the comments and make each one a matter of prayer; however, if I would take the time to answer each one of them, or add to them; according to my writing style, I wouldn’t be able to add my own beneficially :-). You, as well as every person involved can be sure that you are in my prayers. But what brings joy to my heart is that all though we may miss something, and since we don’t know how to pray, the Holy Spirit makes-up the gap: “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities; for WE KNOW NOT WHAT WE SHOULD PRAY for as we ought; but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered” [Romans 8:26].

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  70. foreverblessed says:

    Steve, Ron thank you so much, thanks for your prayers!
    This brings joy to my heart.
    Isn’t it something, the prayer we pray for one another is much more effective then when we pray for ourselves.
    How could I have prayed so much for Glenna if I did not suffer the same illness?

    When I read back the comments I realised I had written that I was thankfull for the migraine?! I meant it, and do realise just now what I had written. Are we thankfull IN all things or FOR all things? was Marts question. THese two things IN and FOR are closely parallel. How can such an evil as migraine ever be good? It is FOR the sake of Gods grace that works out for the good. Only for the grace of God for me in this illness can I be thankfull.
    1 Cor 1:4 I always thank God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.

  71. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. According to the writer of the book of Hebrews; I believe it was the Apostle Paul, he said, “Though He (i.e., Yeshua) were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered…” [Hebrews 5:8]. Are we exempt from this lifestyle? Not if we follow Him. Suffering develops character, and when we follow Him and obey Him, we will experience all types of suffering. But remember: What a joy it will be when we see Him face to face: “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away” [Revelation 21:4].

    Something to rejoice about, wouldn’t you say?

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  72. phpatato says:


    We got a light dusting of snow very early this morning. I knew that if I said the word, it wouldn’t be long. :-)))) I hear you about the repairs etc on the truck and plow. Our winters (eastern Ontario) aren’t near as severe as they used to be – back in the day – but the snow can still be drifted into piles that makes shovelling only the brave and brawny can handle.

    God Bless each of you today. My day may prove to be taxing on my Christian walk. I am praying for victory.

  73. daisymarygoldr says:

    phpatato, May God bless your day with an awesome victory!

    Ron (November 29, 2009 at 7:15 am), absolutely agree with all your 3 points. Thank you for sharing and Welcome to the blog!

    You have said it best Michael: “The Sweet isn’t as Sweet unless you’ve tasted the Bitter.”

    forverblessed, “How can such an evil as migraine ever be good?” is a good example!

    Mart, this discussion is getting very interesting! In response to your second post: “we have seen that this does not mean that God does (or is the source of) evil” “evil as an act is not the direct working of God, but the spontaneous work of a creature”

    We are all familiar with these verses: “For by Him were all things created” “all things were made by Him and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

    So my question is : do you believe that God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:9) or do you think it was a spontaneous creation that sprouted all on its own and later when God saw it He was so pleasantly surprised and felt compelled to acknowledge it as good?! … Just to make us think…

  74. poohpity says:

    I believe only pride would keep one from not posting. We are all students under the Good Teacher and none have it all mastered. The journey is long but exciting when it comes to learning about our God and we will never know it all but have to be open to learn.

    I did a word search on “created evil” and have found that the KJV and very few others have it. On the other hand “evil” turned up over 400 references and it was very interesting to read about them. See biblegateway.com

  75. poohpity says:

    Wasn’t it a tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil? Not the source.

  76. pegramsdell says:

    Ron, I appreciate you and your comments. Please continue. Also…appreciate the prayers. Praying for you and all others as well.

  77. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom. My appreciation goes out to Mart De Haan, pegramsdell, daisymarygoldr, foreverblessed, steve, Bob in Corwall, Loretta Beavis, Claudia, Hisgirl4life, poohpity, and anyone else I may have overlooked. Thank you, and I appreciate and love everyone of you.

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  78. SFDBWV says:

    Good call Pooh, It is the “Tree of the knowledge of good and evil,”. Not the tree of good and evil. Gen 2:17

    Thinking a great deal about the ballance between good and evil. It apperas that for every evil thing that occurs in scripture, God not only counters it with something good but that good thing in line with the bigger plan of His will.

    For instance, Without Joseph being sold into slavery by his brothers (evil) Joseph would not have become second in command in Egypt and by so save Jacob and all his brothers from calamity (good)

    Without Jacob family becoming so numerous to be seen as a threat to Egypt and so put under the bondage of slavery for 400 years (evil) there would not have been the Exodus (good).

    Without the death of Ruth’s husband, she would not have eventualy become Boaz’s bride and so on to King David.

    Either, God sets up the tragic circumstances to provide His desired results, or God turns the evil into something very good, even better than good, His desire.


  79. SFDBWV says:

    Then when I think about Cyrus (Isa 44:28)(Isa 45:1), whom God empowered to subdue nations for Jacobs sake (Isa 45:4).

    The death and destruction of the Medes and Persians are well documented.

    Reading all of Isaiah 45, the majesty of God is well explained, and the warning found in verse 9 ” Woe to him that striveth with his maker!” further statement from God that He does as He pleases.

    Then found in 1 Kings 22 beginning at verse 20 God asks who shall persuade Ahab; verse 21, says there came forth a spirit; and in verse 22, I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. Verse 23 ” The Lord hath put a lying Spirit in all these thy prophets,and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.”

    The story goes forth to show that God’s ends, His will, will be done. God will use every thing at His disposal to accomplish His will. Apparently evil is a tool, He will use to accomplish His desired results. All things fall under the power of God.


  80. daisymarygoldr says:

    Sorry, if I was not very clear in my comment about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. No, I did not say the tree is the source.

    I firmly believe that God is the source i.e.

    – God created the devastator to destroy. (Isa 54:16).
    – God created the subtle serpent (Gen. 3:1)
    – God created the devil who sins from the beginning (John 8:44; 1 Jn 3:8)

    And yes, to our human mind “the idea may be beyond our ability to understand” but when perceived with God’s perspective we can perfectly understand the purpose for which God created evil! Just my humble thoughts…

  81. daisymarygoldr says:

    Oops! forgot to add this:

    “The Lord has made everything–even the wicked for the day of calamity and evil.” Prov 16:4

    And “Evil” refers to God’s judgment or punishment as discussed above by Ron Ben Yaakov.

  82. poohpity says:

    I have found that as some have said that God did not create the evil itself but He did however create the beginnings that fell. I guess this is more of a discussion that some believe God created evil and some don’t but I find more reference to say that it was not created of God but that it was allowed and used by God. It seems to be a good case of semantics. This is a good discussion about evil and whether to be thankful for it or not. For myself I am thankful for God and what He in His infinite wisdom can achieve through it but am not thankful for evil in and of itself.

  83. foreverblessed says:

    Daisy, God did not create Satan:
    He created Lucifer, Isaiah 14:12
    “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, who didst weaken the nations!
    And Lucifer:
    14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
    for so I ordained you.
    You were on the holy mount of God;
    you walked among the fiery stones.

    15 You were blameless in your ways
    from the day you were created
    till wickedness was found in you.
    Ezekiel 28:11-17
    So when the bible says Satan was a murderer from the beginning, it means to say, from the beginning of Satan: after Lucifer had fallen and had become Satan, the adversary.

  84. foreverblessed says:

    I believe that God allowed Satan to remain here, so to show that when we go against God the evil in us will become extremely evil. Without satan we would not have known how evil evil can become.
    We now are so so motivated to follow God.

  85. poohpity says:

    It is like saying God created His own enemy.

  86. SFDBWV says:

    Jer 42:10, “For I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.” God speaking to Israel during the captivity in Babylon.

    Just to help out, there are several dozen books written on the subjects we have been discussing, over thousands of years.

    God is and will remain a mystery we are to continue to search out all of our days. Through the scripture and with the aid of the Holy Spirit,little glimpses, but though we see through glass darkly now, all will be cleared up for us….one day soon.


  87. daisymarygoldr says:

    That’s a good one Steve!

    foreverblessed, we are meandering away from the topic but thanks for the comment! Based on those verses which you have quoted, I used to think the same — that Lucifer had fallen and had become Satan until I read it in the Amp version in which Lucifer that Isaiah refers to was the [blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!].

    To my knowledge no where else in the Bible, Lucifer is identified as satan but Rev mentions “the great dragon, that serpent of old, called the devil and satan” will be eventually cast out.

    Also, Isa 14:16 reads “Is this the man…?” Hence, I believe satan who is a spiritual being and Lucifer a man are not the same…

  88. pegramsdell says:

    1 Timothy 4:4 (New Living Translation)
    4 Since everything God created is good, we should not reject any of it but receive it with thanks.

    Lol…So, does that mean we can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater? :)

  89. kaliko88 says:

    Actually, poohpity, it’s not just pride that would keep someone from posting. Try also inadequacy, guilt and shame that keep us from God’s word and anything relating to it, shyness, the feeling that what you are thinking has already been expressed, low self-esteem, feeling overwhelmed after reading the sheer depth of comments that frequently mark this blog, or just plain real life struggles that interfere with participation. I can think of more, and I’ll admit pride is mixed up with each one frequently, and sometimes it’s a little of all of them, but, it’s enough of a point. At the same time it’s almost saying too much.

    And I can’t remember who was struggling with this, but I’m not thankful for the evil, just the way God helps me to respond to it. To be honest, without some evil, I think I would be incredibly lazy.

  90. jjhis says:

    Amen, Daisy. We can all be thankful for the fact that there will be no evil nor devil in a new heaven and a new earth and the new Jerusalem which John writes about in Revelation 21. Praise God! Until then we can be thankful that He is in control in all circumstances of our lives.
    I would also like to join all of you through Jesus and let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge His Name. (Heb. 13:15)
    I am thankful to each of you as I have read each comment since Thanksgiving Day and have been led to scripture, to prayer, and to think about and understand what the will of the Lord is. It is good, as Eph. 5:10 says,for us to “try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.”

  91. poohpity says:

    kalico88, I hope none of that would stop anyone from posting. There is not one little thing wrong with not knowing, being shy, overwhelmed with the struggles of life, or anything else that may stop one from posting. I do however think it is wrong to talk down to others or think that one knows everything. We are all at different places with our relationship to God and trust me I do not feel anything is wrong with that. What is most important is that we have a relationship with Him period the rest will follow. How are things with you lately? Hope all is well. I guess when we post it would be nice to have the attitude of contributing to the topic and looking at all the different replies, some we will agree with and some we will not but hopefully we are all learning and can respect each other.

  92. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    Thank you for your prayers. I went to my old church, which is called The Barn Christian Fellowship, and was an old cow shed. I haven’t been there for about 18 months but was greeted warmly and I was able to worship very freely and even danced a little, so felt very blessed. The speakers were from The Society for Distributing Hebrew Scriptures and I always find their stories of how Jewish people respond to the the free gifts of The Old and New Testaments in Hebrew-English, (especialy for their Chanukah celelbrations which often occurs near Christmas and involves exchanging gifts), amazing!

    Ron Ben Yaakov, I know I caused you grief with my comments awhile back, but I really do appreciate the depth of learning you have in the Scriptures, and am learning so much from your postings. May they continue.
    I hope to be attending church again next week.
    I would value prayer for my Job hunting and money worries.


    I have prayed for you and your son and will continue to do so.
    I know the feeling of utter despair when left to fend for yourself and have no job etc.
    But remember God said “I will never leave you or forsake you, even to the end of the age.”

    I saw another rainbow today and remember God’s promise?

    Genesis 9:12-16
    “And God said, This is the token of the covenant (solemn pledge) which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all future generations:

    I set My bow [rainbow] in the cloud, and it shall be a token or sign of a covenant or solemn pledge between Me and the earth.

    And it shall be that when I bring clouds over the earth and the bow [rainbow] is seen in the clouds,

    I will [earnestly] remember My covenant or solemn pledge which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters will no more become a flood to destroy and make all flesh corrupt.

    When the bow [rainbow] is in the clouds and I look upon it, I will [earnestly] remember the everlasting covenant or pledge between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

    Whenever you see a rainbow just remember God is looking at it as well. What a wonderful thought!


  93. lilu1314h says:

    Just a thought…

    Why God did not banish Lucifer when he disobey Him??

  94. Ron Ben Yaakov says:

    Shalom Bob in Cornwall. I’m rejoicing with you: The fact that you’re back with your brothers and sisters, and their warm welcome is a blessing, I’m sure.

    Bob, I want you to know that you are loved, and I want to encourage you to let go of the past, including any words that were said beforehand. Perhaps you have had many people in your lifetime who have a tendency to harbor animosity in their hearts. Be sure of this; I don’t :-). Whatever happened days ago is history as far as I’m concerned. All this to say: Enjoy the doors that God has opened for you to grow as you meet in the fellowship He has planted you in. Blessings in His name.

    Love in Messiah,

    Ron Ben Yaakov

  95. foreverblessed says:

    Bob, that is such a good news! You have made such big steps the last few weeks! I went to a church again, but it was a real struggle for me, because all these thoughts came in my mind to make me uncertain again.
    And even the migraine was worse, every time after church, I felt it was used to make me disappointed about church again. But I said to God, even with the migraine I will worship You here with my brothers and sisters in Christ! (well after the migraine is gone that is, because wile having it you cant). So I will keep on praying for you,throw all negative thoughts out!
    Hang on to Jesus with all yout might!

  96. foreverblessed says:

    Daisy, about Isaiah 14:16 that is indeed about the king of Babylon, a man. But verses 12-15 are about somebody else.
    This is a good example that the theory: context does not always work.
    But then Ezekiel is very clear, it talks about the king of Tyre, being a covering cherub. V14.
    Who was thrown to the earth, v17. (verses 17b -19 might be again about a human king of Tyre).
    And Jesus confirms that when He said in Luke 10:18-20 I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions, and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

  97. dependent says:

    Very interesting discussion.

    Mart, I appreciate how deftly you have posed these ‘truths in tension’. The resulting exploration of the truths of God’s word is edifying and valuable.

    A couple of observations about this “thankful FOR everything and IN everything” discussion:
    It seems most of the posts have focused on sorting through the implications of the ‘evil/calamity’ that happens to each of us individually, as believers. And how God’s word (in addition to blessed hindsight) assures us of his plan and intention to work good both in and through *despite) every thing we face. Praise God for his grace and mercy!

    But even though I embrace this notion of being thankful FOR/IN all things as a believer who desires to walk in total submission, I struggle with the idea of being thankful FOR the evil that affects others. There seems a danger of justifying my non-action in the face of the injustice and havoc that trails behind the evil people in the world. I guess at some level I can be thankful that the weak and vulnerable suffer so that “the glory of God can be revealed”–but that honestly seems a stretch for anyone other than Christ himself.

    And for good measure, it seems the notion of being thankful FOR all things (including evil) is at odds with Jesus’ prayer “lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil”… Guess to be honest, after seeing all the scripture traded here, and all the valid arguments, I can’t seem to embrace the idea of being thankful FOR evil while at the same time rejecting it/resisting it (in my life or my surroundings).

    It’s also interesting to reflect on the idea that the very concept of a holy and righteous God assumes *by definition* that an alternative exists…something less than holy, something less than righteous.

    Might be a bit philosophical, but thought it germain to the discussion about the ‘beginning’ of evil…

    Thanks to everyone for their hearfelt and thoughtful responses. I learn something every time I read and reflect on your input.


  98. foreverblessed says:

    This is like a long sermon, but if you have time..
    Lilu, yes that is a question I have asked myself. Then Adam and Eve would have been in the garden and no serpent to deceive them. And yet God allowed it. Would we have done that? When my children wanted to do something not right, I am there to warn them, I want to protect them.
    I really find it very very amazing that God allowed that. He knew then how terrible life would be for mankind, how much disease, death, how painful life would be.

    God and the Word must have discussed it, and both came to the conclusion that the solution would be the appearance of Jesus in the flesh:
    It says in 1 John 3: 3 But you know that He appeared so that he might take away our sins..
    v8 the reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the work of rhe devil.
    Even in Revdelation it is written that God will bind Satan for a 1000 years, and after that he must be set free for a short time. Rev 20:1-3. And when he is released, he immedialtely starts to deceive the nations again, and the fighting too, v 7-10, even the city of Jerusalem is surrounded again!
    God does not say why this is so. The question -why- is so useless, as if God is going to explain everything to us, while His ways are so much higher then our ways, as was written here on this blog.
    But I was raised in a church which did try to explain this, they were into a lot of prophecies, and about the second coming of Christ, they searched the scriptures fron Genesis to Revelation. The advantage for me is now I have a lot of scriptures in my memory.
    The disadvantage was that the one main solution, Jesus the Deliverer, was a bit undervalued. I had to find that later, as the one main Cause of Grace, and Healing, and Forgiving, and the One source fo real Life.
    But they said, all the people that turned to Christ while Satan was still around are the firstfruits, the hard fruit, those that would be kings and priests in His kingdom. 1 Peter 2:9, James 1:18, Revelation 14:4
    The rest of the people who will turn to Jesus after Satan is bound, are the softer fruits.
    Like the fruit in the spring is the hard fruit, the grains, the fruit of the harvest is the soft fruit, the apples, oranges, the vegetables.
    It is already said here that we are formed and molded against suffering, persecution, and because of that our character is much more firm and persevered.
    God is making a government of us now, a government to rule in His coming Kingdom, which will cover the earth.
    So keep on, turning to Christ, to live your life through faith in Him.

  99. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Ron Ben …

    Thank you for these words:

    “All this to say: Enjoy the doors that God has opened for you to grow as you meet in the fellowship He has planted you in. Blessings in His name.”

    I always new God had planted me at The Barn and when someone told me to leave, because I said I did not like some things going on, I immediately retorted ” I can’t leave, God has planted me here.” I let satan get hold of stuff in me and I rebelled against God and have had an 18 month absense from His Church.
    Thanks to The Holy Spirit you have just reafirmed what God originally showed me.

    You said

    “Just a thought…

    Why God did not banish Lucifer when he disobey Him??”

    I thought God did bannish Lucifer together with one third of the Angels (Who are now called demons)to Earth.
    There were three Archagels in heaven Lucifer(in charge of Worship and Light), Micheal(the power/leader of God’s army)
    and Gabriel (God’s communicator/messenger)
    Each commands one third of the angels.
    And I may be wrong, but each one seems to reflect the Godhead.
    Gabrel to Jesus(The Word made flesh), Micheal to The Holy Spirit (Gods Power and might), and Lucifer to The Father. (Worship & Light)


  100. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Bob, I didn’t know that.
    Maybe good to put a schripture about the one third of the angels: Revelation 12:3-4
    the dragon.. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.

    Dependent, yes a groan for all the suffering in the world, to those who have not found Jesus yet:

    While we are in this chaptre Revelation 12
    v12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
    and you who dwell in them!
    But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!

    So we who are in Christ rejoice because of the suffering, but woe to the yet lost.
    Also Romans 8:22-23
    22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

  101. jjhis says:


    I would like to thank you and all the staff at RBC Ministries for your dedication to our Lord Jesus Christ and to your presentation of the Gospel of the Kingdom in all you do. I remember watching the Day of Discovery nearly 40 years ago when all I can recall were the singers around the lake. Ha. We have all changed a bit since then.
    The programs have been such an inspiration to me over the years. So much so that the desire I had to go to Israel, which was planted in my heart while watching you and Jimmy DeYoung teach from there, was realized two years ago as I went with Jimmy and Joshua Travel. What an incredible trip where the Bible just “came alive” and anew to me.
    I’ve read Our Daily Bread for many years and have been touched by how the Holy Spirit speaks to me in things happening in my life as I read. I have followed your “Been Thinking” article for some time also, have listened to the radio program, and read many other booklets and articles which RBC produces.
    Now as I have been participating in this Been Thinking blog, the Lord is continuing to bless. You have challenged me to study the scripture to understand what it truly says rather than coming with my opinions and beliefs which I have previously held. Thank you for helping us to discover the Truth in the tension of the Word and our lives.
    May God bless you and direct you and RBC as you continue to do your utmost for His Highest.

  102. Zeph_3_17 says:

    I am very new here. I have enjoyed reading so much. I found it through the Blue Bible link then on to reading daily Oswald and then to here. What a blessing for sure. I realize this is a late post but not really as we thank the Lord daily not just on T.G. I have come to be so very humbled by the revelations of my Lord’s love for us. In so many little ways He wraps His loving arms around us all though the day. When I cant find something to intercession prayers answered. I love how my Lord changes my heart to align with His and I become content. I am so very thankful my Lord has given me this time to be still and to be in His Presence. I am so thankful that after a brutal 3 years of caring for my dear mother with Alzheimer’s, my Lord is refreshing me and filling me up with Himself. I am so very thankful that my Mother, who in a lot of pain, asked her Lord to please take her and within 5 min. she He did. And six months later my Dad, who would hold his Bible in one hand and his camera in the other, lifted his arms toward Heaven and the Lord took him. He too was in a lot of pain. Our Lord is so very merciful and kind. I am so very thankful I can be at peace and rest in my Lord for He is my love, my Savior, my Husband, my Friend, my Provider and He has left the Holy Spirit for us and I am so very thankful, so very thankful. We can sing and dance with Him, request, intercede,commune with tears of joy, of sorrow, of a thankful heart. He is our all and all. We love You, appreciate You and bow down and worship You. Your bride, Sheri

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