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Absolutes and Relatives

Is it possible that some of us are so committed to defending “absolute truth” that we forget how “relative” our understanding can be?

Admittedly, those who say “all things are relative” often mean that one opinion is as good as another—especially when they want their own opinion to be as good, or better, than anyone else’s.

Relative thinking has its place. According to the Bible, even truth that corresponds to the reality of God (as an absolute fact), is still understood (relatively) through the lens of our own limited perspective (1Cor 4:3-4; 13:12).

Our reassurance in limitation is that if, as the Bible also tells us, God takes the initiative to reveal Himself to human sense and reason, he can enable us to have absolutely reliable, though limited, knowledge of whatever He wants us to know.

The God of the Bible uses both absolute and relative truth to inspire confidence, love, and humility. From Genesis to Revelation we read about a perfect, self-existing, Creator who gives us enough reason and revelation to worship him—in humble awareness of how limited and relative our understanding of absolute truth is.

This is Isaiah’s vision of God when he writes, For thus says the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity, whose name is holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, with him who has a contrite (i.e. broken) and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones” (Isa 57:15).

This God reconciles our understanding of absolute and relative truth in the person of His Son. Though self-existent, with no need of us in the mystery of eternity past, He now comes as one eating and drinking with tax collectors and sinners.

He shows the heart of God in relation/relative to a Samaritan woman who has been married five times and is living with a man to whom she is not married.

He shows God offering relationship to diseased, demon oppressed, desperate people like us.

As he willingly died in our place, he offered eternal friendship in paradise to a condemned criminal who shared his day of execution.

This is the Son of God who has come into our lives to make it possible for us have as much absolutely reliable understanding as we need to trust and love Him—while remaining humbled by the relatively little we can absorb…

With the confidence that God has given us enough truth to love him and one another, the Apostle Paul writes, “Now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known” (1Co 13:12).

Note: Because this can sound like double-talk, hope some of you will weigh in as to whether this resonates with your own understanding of the Bible and life… Also, the two pics of the young woman’s face and the close up of the colored pins are two perspectives of an art exhibit that recently showed in our city

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79 Responses to “Absolutes and Relatives”

  1. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    What a wonderful subject again. I always seem to see these change of topics first, must be the time zone difference. Now there’s a relative truth!
    We see things in our time scale and not God’s.
    We are but a vapour and are gone as soon as the morning sun shines.
    God is everlasting, eternal, therefore He sees it all so different.
    Your pin art is such a fine example of being too close to something to actually see what it is. Our universe, God’s creation, is so vast we could never see it all and have no idea of it’s shape etc. But God see it all in it’s entirity.
    Light travels at a finite absolute speed that cannot be changed and all we see is relative to that, our speed and posistion.
    So God’s word is just a climpse at the reality of it all.
    Jesus said, “If you have seen me you have seen the Father”
    Now there’s a truth that is absolute!

  2. foreverblessed says:

    Bob, most f the time Steve is the first one to comment, he must wake up very early every morning.
    It is 1 a clock in the afternoon here where I am.
    We had mentioned Job in earlier topics, he ended saying to God:
    You asked: Who is he that obscures counsel without knowledge?
    Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
    things too wonderful for me to know.
    You said: Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.
    My ears have heard of you but now my eyes have seen you.
    Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.
    Job 42:2-6.

    It takes trials and tests, suffering to get to this point. So Dale, be comforted, be very glad that you have come to this point, bless you, thanks to Gods grace, who brings us to this point and fills us with His life.

  3. SFDBWV says:

    E=MC2 Einstine’s theory of relativity, somewhat proven by the explosion of an atomic weapon…

    Jesus talked of faith the size of a mustard seed. yet the truth is how many of us have seen faith as a solid substance that can be see or touched?

    Many times many of us here on the blog have stated that we are all at various places in our own personal walk with God. That is a relative matter. Defined by the personal place each of us are at any given time concerning our knowledge and understanding of God.

    Because the relationship with God is the most deeply personal event of our livetimes, then it makes sense that we are personaly at a place that we and God have grown to, different than any other person on the planet.

    So in keeping with the topic, our intellectual understanding of God is relative to the many factors of how we have or have not grown spirtualy.

    I think though, the ease of salvation, simply believe and trust as a child…Makes it a level playing field.

    Which I think sometimes confounds the intellectual mind.
    Who then wants to add more to the equation of salvation, in order to make sense to them.


  4. SFDBWV says:

    Dale, I have left you a couple comments on yesterdays topic.


  5. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed, I rise early, yes I do. As a result I am able to be here as time allows in my morning and sometimes in the early afternoon. I am rarely able to be on line in the evening.
    So when the topic changes as it did this morning. I often wonder if I should bring foreward into the new topic the atmosphere of the thoughts and emotions created during my abscense the evening before, or answer it there, or just move on without comment.

    It would seem that everything is relevant to another.

    Within the absolutes, I have understood from scripture. I also have found people who will argue with them. As I understand them.Relative to whatever doctrine they have been exposed to and the people who have influenced their understanding of scripture.

    We all have met people who cannot comprehend the Trinity. Yet here relativity is greatly expressed. As all three parts of God are relative to each other and their function, toward we human beings.

    The simpler the better for me.

    Which brings the topic of self examination back into view. When things get complicated, for me. Sometimes I have to backup a bit and look at it from an attitude I already understand. Something I can “relate” to.


  6. kingsdaughter says:

    Steve, I have read your posts to me in the last blog…as for me…I always go to the previous post anticipating a response. I left a final thought.

    I agree with you on “the level playing field” as salvation would have it..and also, that intellect has complicated the understandings of those whose faith walk is in its infant stage; that intellect has its own place relative to each person’s understanding in whatever phase of our walk we are in…thus the reason for the Living Bible…it is always relative, always thriving with life for each new generation and its new host of problems.

    Bob..I like the analysis of being to close to the pin art to be able to see the whole picture… which brings me to an analogy a pastor friend told my husband and myself about as we tried to comprehend our son’s death. He spoke to us about stepping out on this back porch which overlooked his neighbor’s back yard. There was a rabbit sitting in the deep grass oblivious to the cat nearby….our friend could see all of the back yard in his godlike stance…and the rabbit only knew what was in his immediate area. He likened this to the way God can see the “big” picture and that we are limited.

    Another story that relates to Steve’s mention of intellect and how it can get in the way of a simple faith: I served on a jury (awful exasperating experience) and when the lawyers were instructing us on how to come to a verdict they used these words: common sense. And so that was easy…you would think. But there were 2 people on the jury who were too analytical for what seemed a done deal..an easy conclusion. They would not relent to come to the same conclusion that the rest of us in the majority had and we ended up with no verdict…a hung jury.

    Yes, as for me…make it simple…even Jesus on His walk..used parables to demonstrate what he was trying to get across.


  7. kingsdaughter says:

    Foreverblessed…thank you…through it all I have not lost my Lord.

  8. rokdude5 says:

    Perhaps Im not tuned into where in the Bible “relative” truth lies though there are places where various interpretations can arise. I can say that there are fundamental absolutes that I can point to. God’s attributes of power, majesty, love…just to name a few.

    Also the absolute truth of what the moral laws are in the Ten Commandments though I have yet clear picture of what is “work” in the Fourth Commandment. Perhaps that is one instance of “relative” truth.

    Lastly, Christianity rest on the absolute bulwark where our salvation can only be through belief in Jesus as stated for example, in Roman 10:9-10. For if we dont have that, then Christianity is no better than any other religions or philosophies. RJ PS We got 9 inches of snow yesterday. Im willing to put your name on some snow shovels if you want to volunteer. lol

  9. austipatmar says:

    This line of thinking is exactly what I’ve been working through myself for the past few years. “Debates” with my college-aged kids started to prompt my thinking in this direction.
    I truly believe that yes, while there are some absolutes in this life; much of what we “know” is open to interpretation. I think there’s a lot to be said for taking in a person’s circumstances at a given time in trying to understand where they are coming from & their line of reasoning. I think most of us tend to filter our opinions & convictions through our own life experiences. I think if we did that more often when dealing with other people that we would be more like the people of love & compassion that God desires. After all, if we follow Jesus as our example then we should be right on target.
    Jesus was always loving & compassionate to those that had a need; when you read the gospels the only ones he was not compassionate with were the religious leaders of the day because of their hardness of heart & LACK of compassion; they were all about “the letter of the law” & not the “law of the heart”.
    However, bottom line HAS to be to defer to scripture & then if something needs adjusted; it must be US adjusting to what God says. However, what I seem to witness is that people continue to adjust God to themselves & their own interpretation – much like the pharisees of old.
    How strange it is that many people seem to be more comfortable & determined to put themselves under a set of rules that they think God requires of them & in the process make themselves miserable; instead of focusing on loving God & then just giving out that love to those around them. As I age I am finding that loving someone to Christ is much more effective than telling them how bad they are & that they need God to clean them up. Bring people to Jesus & his love FIRST; then HE will do the cleaning up as they grow in their knowledge of him & in their walk with him.

  10. pegramsdell says:

    Amen austipatmar. Well said.

  11. daisymarygoldr says:

    Good post and pics! and I agree with everything you have said.

    Before Christ, each one of us can identify ourselves with any or all of those examples:
    – tax collectors and sinners
    – Samaritan woman
    – diseased, demon oppressed, desperate people
    – condemned criminal

    And now, after knowing the absolute truth of God’s love that gave His all for me in the person of His Son-Jesus Christ, I have a choice to either:

    – Trust the ‘absolute’ truth that never changes, that always was, is and will be… and give my all to Him or

    – Depend on the ‘relative’ truth that varies with my feelings, circumstances of health or wealth, age, culture, knowledge of the head or heart… and limit myself for Him.

    Perception of the absolute truth when sensed by the flesh is completely different when sensed by the spirit. The relativity of truth is an intellectual insight that is the hallmark of a moral-free society!

    Paul tells us: to our human minds of flesh, our ‘knowledge of truth’ is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect)” (1Co 13:12).

    Paul also tells us: even though “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”—but God has revealed it to us by His Spirit. This is what we speak… expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.” 1Cor 2:9-13

    God’s truth is absolute to every one who is of the truth and hears His voice to obey the truth (John 18:37). This group of people who have spiritual eyes of understanding know the truth as manifested in the word of God (Jn 17:17) are free indeed from the cares and loves of this world. They worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).John 4:24

    God’s truth is relative to those who want to evade the truth to question “What is truth?” (John 18:38) because they find it hard to accept or obey and hence do that which is relatively right in their own eyes. (Judges 21:25). This group of people who are spiritually blind exchange the truth of God for a lie, to worship and serve everything and anything other than the Creator (Romans 1:25).

    Spiritual blindness in Christians is very sad. It literally robs us off the abundant joys of what it means to walk by faith. If we persevere in faith to receive the second touch of the Messiah’s healing hands, I’m confident that our spiritual sight will be restored completely! This is my earnest prayer for all of us today…

  12. daisymarygoldr says:

    BTW, the verse “now we see through a glass” reminds me of my childhood days when at times my parents used to go out but left us home alone with our grandmother.

    Although we had toys and books and games to keep us occupied till they came back, we used to perch ourselves at the windows to press our little noses against the glass panes and peer forlornly at the mysterious world that lay outside our reach… so typical of silly childishness.

    Sometimes as Christians, we are also childish. Instead of being obedient to remain preoccupied with the business which the Lord has commanded us to do here on earth, we want to know what it is going to be like in heaven.

    It is high time we became a man/woman, to put away childish things (1 Cor 13:11) and faithfully love God and one another!

    God’s deep secrets that He has kept in the dark which we know only in part do not pertain to this life on earth. They are His eternal plans for us in the eternal realms of heaven.

    It is not required for us to know all of that and even if one has an understanding of those things, they cannot be expressed in mere human words. All that is needed of us is to obey and do what we have heard and learned as absolute truths! Just my random thoughts…

  13. poohpity says:

    Mart :-)

    This past year I read a book called, “The Year of Living Biblically” by A.J. Jacobs. He applied the bible as literally as possible to his everyday life which would be similar to absolute truth. It was hilarious and sad, he even stoned someone for adultery with pebbles. I also have an Aunt who said while reading scripture, “If God is a loving God how could He destroy all those people at the mountain while Moses was with God?” Living the absolute truth also has to take into consideration things like not wearing clothes that has two different types of fabrics woven together.

    I believe God is the absolute truth. If we were to take the actions of Jesus as He dined with tax-collectors, adulterers, prostitutes, and the like we would follow His example. It would seem that a majority of Christians hang around only fellow believers. They have there wagons circled and no one can come into the fold unless you have done a list of the to do’s and have not done the do not’s. Todd Agnew has a song “My Jesus” that says if Jesus were to walk into your church odds are He would not be accepted or welcomed.

    It is like the difference in parenting the harder you are on a child with so many rules chances are they will rebel or if your parenting is to passive the child rules the house and is always throwing tantrums to have their way.

  14. kaliko88 says:

    In many sermons and bible studies I’m frequently told that it is important to not take verses and passages in the bible out of context. I think we do that sometimes with our actions, showing Jesus and the bible out of context.

  15. pegramsdell says:

    I believe we are saved by grace. Not law. The truth is, Jesus died so that we would live. And live our life more abundantly. Not to follow again the law, but grace. Unmerited favor. We were adopted (which means we cannot be disowned), by a loving Father. Not because of anything we did, but because He loves us. I’m not sure I will ever understand that!!! I just believe it! :)

  16. franknolton says:

    We must be very careful about how we use the term “relativism”. In today’s postmodern culture, relativism means that truth is individual, based on one’s own experience and worldview. It is considered intolerant, hateful, narrow minded, and bigoted to say that absolute truth exists.

    As disciples of Jesus, we believe in absolute truth as God has given us in the Bible. Remember, truth is a person…Jesus said “I am the Way and the TRUTH, and the Life… Thus truth isn’t what I want it to be nor is it based on my life’s experience. It is based on the character of God and His Word. Now some can indulge in hermeneutical gymnastics and interpret Scripture in some wildly creative ways, but the foundation of God’s truth does not rise or fall on what we do with it. Absolute truth is binding on all people, in all cultures, in all ages, for all time.

    Relativism, in the current cultural context, is one of the main components in the slide of our world into the moral abyss of evil. I think that using the word “relative” in this “Been Thinking About” column gives rise to confusion about what the term really means in our cultural context.

  17. saled says:

    Somewhere from the dim past I remember hearing that the old testament and the law (e.g. leviticus) is not for us, but was for God’s chosen people in that time period. I am certainly not convicted of sin when I eat pork or lobster. But much of the old testament I love, the story of David, the Psalms, special verses like the one in Isaiah that Mart quotes above.

    Then the new testament. What about Paul’s thoughts about women speaking in church or cutting their hair? It really amuses me when ladies who won’t dance or go to movies feel free to cut their hair shorter than my husband’s. (almost bald and what is there is about 3/8 of an inch long.) Yes, a lot of truth is relative to time, place, and personal experience. My brother-in law is a Baptist misister from New England and years ago went to a conference in the south, where a Christian couple invited them for fellowship. Well, my brother-in-law’s new friends were mortified when they learned that my in-laws slept on a water bed, but thought nothing of smoking. I know the Bible doesn’t mention water beds or smoking, but it does mention women cutting their hair. However, I would never consider Paul’s opinion on the subject to be absolute truth.

  18. poohpity says:

    I looked up relative this morning, 1. Having pertinence or relevance; connected or related. 2. Considered in comparison with something else. 3. Dependent on or interconnected with something else; not absolute.

    So the things we believe and read in the bible are absolute truths, how we use those truths need to be directly connected to living our life of faith. If that is the case how come some are more merciful and compassionate than others when we have been shown so much. Is it because of the amount each has been shown?

  19. poohpity says:

    Or is it each individuals perception of their sinfulness?

  20. daisymarygoldr says:

    Q: “Or is it each individuals perception of their sinfulness?”
    A: Good Q! It is each individual’s perception of their sinfulness relative to their understanding of the absolute truth—God’s love!

    In my understanding every time I sin as a Christian, I slap God on His face and subject Christ to the cruel death of the cross. Every time I sin, I hurt others to destroy my spouse, children and family and cause fellow Christians to stumble in their faith…

    Every time I sin, I violate the image of God and prevent others from coming to Christ and know God’s absolute truth. Every time I willfully sin, I fail to show love, mercy and compassion for the lost which God shows to a sinner like me!

    Therefore, when I understood that it was God who first loved a wretched sinner like me and sacrificed His life to forgive my many sins, I love Him much and depend on His grace to sin no more.

    Today’s post on our relative understanding of absolute truths has finally helped me understand why “some are more merciful and compassionate than others when we have been shown so much. It is because of the amount each has been shown”!

    pegramsdell, grace has indeed saved us but does grace free Christians from following the absolute truth- God’s natural law of gravity? If you insist that it does then I agree that we should not follow again God’s law of morality but grace! Just to make us think:)…

  21. SFDBWV says:

    Acts 1:9, ” And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud recieved him out of their sight.”

    It would seem, that gravity has no hold on Christ.

    Grace vs law…Shall I rewrite the entire Book of Romans, and recite word for word the teachings of Paul?

    Grace wins…

    But with forgiveness comes a changed heart a changed heart that seeks to please God. Hebrews 11: “But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

    John 8:29 And He that sent me is with me:The Father hath not left me alone; for I do always thoes things that please him.”

    Jesus healed on the Sabbath, Jesus allowed his disciples to take grain and eat on the Sabbath. The Lord of the Sabbath was crucified so that God could offer Grace to a sinfull disobedient world.

    Grace is superior to law. The purpose of the law is to show us our sin, the purpose of grace is to save us from judgement.

    No we are not free to sin, once we are saved. But we are now free of judgement, should we.

    John 8:10,11 “,Woman, where are thoes thine accusers? hath no man condemded thee?” “Neither do I condem thee: go and sin no more.”

    If Jesus is not going to condem us, why should we condem ourselves or others?

    goodnight all

  22. rokdude5 says:

    John 8:31-36 (New International Version)

    31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

    John 14:15 (New International Version)

    15″If you love me, you will obey what I command.

    Though I know Im saved by grace and grace alone, I certainly want to follow God’s Commands. I just want to be honoring and pleasing to Him in all that I do.

    I know that the crucifixion nailed the Law to the cross. But if I follow “relativism”, Im the one setting the standard. If Im not following “relativism” then God is setting the standard.

  23. kingsdaughter says:

    Rok, Steve and Peg….I am with you. Grace is unconditional. We do not earn it…it is ours…because He first loved us. I am reading and re-reading “All of Grace” by Charles Spurgeon:

    And he says it so well….

    “So it is with grace. We repent and believe, though we could do neither if the Lord did not enable us. We forsake sin and trust in Jesus, and then we perceive that the Lord has wrought in us to will and to do of His own good pleasure. It is idle to pretend that there is any real difficulty in the matter.

    Some truths which it is hard to explain in words are simple enough in actual experience. There is no discrepancy between the truth that the sinner believes, and that his faith is wrought in him by the Holy Spirit. Only folly can lead men to puzzle themselves about plain matters while their souls are in danger.

    No man would refuse to enter a lifeboat because he did not know the specific gravity of bodies, neither would a starving man decline to eat till he understood the whole process of nutrition.

    If you, my reader, will not believe till you can understand all mysteries, you will never be saved at all. And if you allow self-invented difficulties to keep you from accepting pardon through your Lord and Savior, you will perish in a condemnation which will be richly deserved. Do not kill the spirit through a passion for discussing metaphysical subtleties.”

  24. daisymarygoldr says:

    kingsdaughter, “metaphysics” is not Biblical so let us not confuse that as an absolute truth. Jer 33:25 says the entire universe follows and obeys the fixed natural laws of God. Hence we have seasons, night and day which is governed by the moving of the sun, moon and stars in the God-ordained order of their fixed orbits…

    Steve, you did make a good attempt to justify overcoming the law of gravity and I think we should keep in mind that after being resurrected, Christ ascended in a glorified body Christians are saved by grace and as long as we live in our natural bodies we cannot test God’s natural laws and jump from the top of a mountain to defy the law of gravity!

    rokdude5, I absolutely agree with you “Though I know I’m saved by grace and grace alone, I certainly want to follow God’s Commands. I just want to be honoring and pleasing to Him in all that I do”

    It must be noted that God’s commands to a born-again Christian does not include the ceremonial, judicial and dietary laws of Moses. The Mosaic Law was given only to Israel.

    It was only required of the Jews to follow the laws which were a shadow of God’s redemptive plan of grace for us since eternity. The purpose of the OT law was to prove the Messiah to be the sinless Lamb of God that was sacrificed for the sins of the whole world!

    Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses and so now to keep the Sabbath or the festival and dietary laws do not apply to us His followers. By grace Jesus delivered us from the Mosaic laws and His unconditional love binds us under a new commandment to obey the Law of love…

    …to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind, and to love our neighbor as ourselves!

    If we say we love God, then we will not bow down to worship other false gods of materialism, environmentalism, nationalism, narcissism, Gnostic beliefs of myths, fables and fairy tales, occult & metaphysical doctrines of cults…

    If we say we love our neighbors as ourselves then we will not conduct ourselves lawlessly to murder them, commit adultery with them, steal from them, lie to them, cheat them or covet what they have…

    Jesus raised the bar of love even higher to extend beyond limited human love…to not only love those who love us, but to also be willing to love our enemies, to do good to those who hate us, to forgive those who persecute us and to even lay down our lives for those who kill us.

    The absolute truth is that Grace is not a license for me to sin but has delivered me ‘from’ not ‘to’ sin. So, if I say that I am the adulterous woman whom Jesus did not condemn, then I should also likewise not condemn or accuse those Pharisees and Scribes who had condemned me.

    That is the absolute truth of God’s love and yes, I agree it may differ relative to our individual understanding. To my understanding, the law of love is impossible to follow except with the enabling of His Holy Spirit!

  25. foreverblessed says:

    I would like to go on where DMG left, it is impossible to follow God without the Holy Spirit.
    THe idea we have is that we want to obey Gods commands. We still think in terms of commands. While God wants to give us His Life. We were dead in our sins, we do not need laws to revive us, we need life to revive us.
    Choose the tree of Life, God already showed that in the garden of Eden. CHoose for the life in Christ, and that is only in faith in the Son. Kiss the Son … blessed are those who take refuge in Him. Psalms 2:12

    These laws of keeping Days the Sabbath, the Holy Days are even called by Paul: basic principles of the world. Colossians 2:8, 20-23.
    He even adds sucj regulations … they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgance.
    So it is not about keeping days holy when we follow Christ, we keep Christ holy, by giving our hearts to Him, let Him live our lives, and so we rest from our own works, just as God did from His. Hebrews 4:10

  26. foreverblessed says:

    The last post of Mart, about taking inventory it is written in 2 Peter 1:5 make every effort to add to your faith goodness.
    If you read this it says literally that we do it, we make effort to add goodness. It would seem like a commandment, while we also know that we do not have goodness ourselves. Do we see this as a commandment? Or do we see this as an urge to give ourselves more to Jesus, so He can live through us, giving Hislife to us, living out of the tree of Life. His life flowing through us, and that is by faith. So how does that work? That is the whole thing, let Christ lead you, He is the Truth, the Life, the Door the Way, and He is our Shepherd who know us, and we can hear His voice. John 10.
    Burn your boats behind you and follow Him, tune in to His voice, every morning start with setting your mind and heart on Him. Step by step, we will come more closer to Him. He will be the Lamp for our feet, the Light on our Path. Psalm 119:105 And that is absolutely so.

  27. kingsdaughter says:

    Main Entry: meta·phys·i·cal
    Pronunciation: \-ˈfi-zi-kəl\
    Function: adjective
    Date: 15th century

    1 : of or relating to metaphysics
    2 a : of or relating to the transcendent or to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses b : supernatural
    3 : highly abstract or abstruse; also : theoretical
    4 often capitalized : of or relating to poetry especially of the early 17th century that is highly intellectual and philosophical and marked by unconventional imagery

    — meta·phys·i·cal·ly \-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

    DMG~ I think you may be confused about what Spurgeon is saying…Please note the second definition: it is Absolute Truth that he is talking about (note the second paragraph in my last post) and WARNING of the dangers of being so involved in proving the supernatural, (as in God, Truth, etc)…which is a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses. That while not knowing the mechanics of something we still have faith in it that it works or at least the theory of it (boat, car, etc…)It is Spurgeon’s analogy of Truth vs.the metaphysical —that some people will spend more time trying to prove a theory and miss the entire concept of faith in the supernatural which cannot always be explained…and therein lies the danger of missing salvation….the Absolute Truth.

  28. kingsdaughter says:

    (cont)…people can over analyze anything…but to do so with faith is missing the whole point.

    In Christ,

  29. SFDBWV says:

    Very messy morning, Ice storm last night, lots of work this morning.

    I typed a nice comment earlier but it went off into cyber space…I hope it turns up in somesones sextexting.

    I must tell you all that I get a good laugh out of reading some responses. Not because there is any thing funny, but because the personality of the writer comes through loud and clear. One common condition we most all suffer, is a strong will.

    I guess it is relative to how we were raised, saved, and influenced by others whom we believed knew more than we.

    Daisy, I will recieve your comments to me concerning my “attempt” to justify overcoming the law of gravity, as a compliment. Even if you didn’t mean it as such.

    It is ok if we disagree. As long as we can with a smile,a hand shake or even sometimes a hug.

    When I think of the laws of nature. I am reminded of when the Red Sea parted, what natural law was present there?
    When I read about Moses smiting the Nile river and it turning to blood, I wonder what natural law was in practice there?
    When I think of Lazurus coming out of his tomb after 4 days of death, alive. I wonder what law of nature was at work there?
    When I read of the axe head that floated, and a donkey that could speak, I am still trying to see the natural laws in force.
    When I am reminded of Jesus and his quieting the storm, walking on water, and returning from the grave. I think about the natural law, becoming supernatural.

    One absolute for me is the three part person of God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The fullness of God is who made the natural laws and can break them or bend them to His will, for His purpose. This is an absolute for me. Relative to nothing else.


  30. daisymarygoldr says:

    kinsdaughter, I agree with you that we should not over analyze anything. God’s absolutes truth can be accepted only by faith.

    Steve, I really did appreciate your response to gravity and yes, it was meant to be a compliment!

    Also, agree with the examples you have cited to explain the natural law becoming supernatural. It only goes to prove that our sovereign God is in control of all of His creation. All of creation (except human beings)… faithfully witness to the divine law and order that reflects His perfect, magnificent glory.

    And when the analytic reasoning mind of humans defy/disobey His divine laws and question His sovereignty to ask Him why, God uses His creation to speak to humans- the most intelligent and supreme creatures and to teach us lessons about who He really is!

    To a child of God, “faith comes by hearing and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself) Rom 10:17. I agree, it is different for each one of us because it is relative to how we were raised, saved and understand God’s absolute truths!

  31. kaliko88 says:

    I’m afraid I’m posting to interrupt the discussion. This is the best place I have to go right now to ask for some prayers. Some of the people I normally go to are apparently preoccupied and not answering. I posted in the last discussion about how ever since I really turned back to Christ everything seems to be happening to the people around me? In just the past 48 hours I’ve received three rounds of really bad news. I’m worried, concerned, trying to do something to help all of these people, and I need, really, really need help with these prayers.

    A lady I work with at my first job miscarried her baby. She’s really hurting, and though I know she’ll be okay, she could use some comfort.

    A lady I work with at my second job was diagnosed with lymphoma two months ago. She still has several months of treatment to go. Despite filing all the appropriate paperwork and submitting documentation from her doctor, she was just informed yesterday that her leave time will run out. They have told her bluntly that if she doesn’t return to work by December 24, they will fire her on Christmas Day. We are all outraged and begging every level of management to do something. We’re hitting roadblocks and HR people who will only quote policy to us. Please pray that we can get through to someone to help her.

    And my best friend’s husband was recently in an accident. They thought everything was fine until he started acting strangely a few days later. It turns out he had burst a blood vessel. He’s in ICU and is not doing as well as they had hoped. She believes, but she’s had such a terrible year it is really taking a toll on her.

    You guys are the best ones I know right now outside of family for praying. I really have no one else.

  32. kingsdaughter says:

    Kaliko~ I am saying a prayer at this posting that our Father’s will be done in every circumstance that you have mentioned here. I would never ignore a prayer request…and you have come to the right place. Everyone here has been so wonderful to me and I believe I have come to the right place for fellowship, intelligent and thoughtful discourse, and compassion…I have felt the power of their prayers for my own need in the short time since God introduced us. Again, my heart is with you and all of your concerns. God bless you as you draw nearer to Him.

    In Christ’s Love,

  33. wretch-like-me says:

    Hello, All:
    Have been reading all the posts to catchup since leaving for thanksgiving Nov 21st… (You guys do not lack for words…LOL:)

    Quick Update on Jim w/H1N1…Miraculous recovery. He’s coming home today after being in hospital since Oct 26. Still has need for rehab/physical therapy;but, that can be done at home. PRAISE GOD FOR HIS MIRACULOUS POWER.

    Jim has wonderful experiences to share of his time in coma…He walked and talked with Jesus. One of the most exciting is the ‘warmth’ he felt from time to time. When he asked Jesus what that was Jesus replied,”Prayer”

    Meantime, I am fighting a common cold. We have subzero temps and no snow. I have lots to do before company arrives on the 16th. So, while I will read, I doubt I will post. You all seem to be doing a good job of ‘grindin’ things into grit.


  34. poohpity says:

    First I would like to say I will be in prayer for your friends. Second I would like to say that you turning back to Christ is not what is causing things to happen to your friends. God in is infinite wisdom probably knew that they would need a believing friend in their time of crisis. So glad you are there for them but it is not in your power to help them, it is for you to point them to God to show what He can do and just be there for them. Sometimes that means just being quiet and being present.

    I was thinking today about what Mart asked, “Is it possible that some of us are so committed to defending “absolute truth” that we forget how “relative” our understanding can be? It would seem that God being the absolute truth and had chosen to reveal to each person as their understanding can fathom. Jesus also said, “he who has ears let him hear” but some were unable to understand exactly what he was teaching even as He gave an example of servant-hood. After Jesus called the disciples to be fisher’s of men they returned to their previous occupation of fishing.

    In the OT more times than not the Lord showed mercy to a rebellious people as an example to us and that ultimate mercy was shown through the Cross. Yet we feel the responsibility to defend absolute truth (God) instead of living the truth that has been taught to us. When we remain in Christ and are nourished by Him we are changed not to a life of do not’s but to a life of living out our faith by being to those around us the hands and feet of Jesus. So our behavior will be relative to what we truly believe.

  35. poohpity says:

    Welcome home w-l-m do you not just hate global warming, LOL. Missed you!!

  36. poohpity says:

    So glad to hear about Jim. I bet the stories are amazing because we have an amazing God.

  37. pegramsdell says:

    kaliko88, I will be praying for your co-workers and best friends husband. Thank You Jesus that we can all be in agreement that You are in our situations and that You know everything going on.
    Frank, good new about Jim. Thanks for sharing.

  38. kaliko88 says:

    Thank you. That’s all I need to be comforted myself, to know that I’m not the only one praying.

  39. jjhis says:

    kaliko88, Have just prayed for your friends. I have also felt as you that when God has drawn me near that very difficult circumstances have happened. I agree with Deb. It is the enemy who would have us to believe that we are to blame. May we stay even closer to Jesus and call upon Him more fervently and ask others to join us in sharing these burdens as you have.
    Frank, wonderful news on Jim. Praise God for His lovingkindness!
    DMG, Thanks for your thoughts on the last topic. Agree with your thoughts on true repentance.

  40. SFDBWV says:

    Kaliko88, Acts 12:5 “Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.”

    The Durst family will be praying for your friends and for you. I am a living witness to the power of prayer. I know it works.

    Frank, All praise be unto our Lord. Who is able. Matthew also told of amazing events during his months in a deep coma and the subsequent years that have followed. I am so very pleased for Jim.


  41. Mo Bo says:

    Interesting reading, but the thought that comes to my mind is that it’s a little bit like discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Mo Bo

  42. net1962 says:

    Thanks mart! Once again, you are right on. I believe that God works through you to make us stronger and more enriched in His Word.

  43. dependent says:

    I rejoice with Frank–your testimony of God’s goodness lifts our faith!

    Steve, re “grace wins…” comment: ditto.

    Mart, your article resonates deeply. Interesting how grace/law discussions are spawned from an exploration of relative/absolutes. Says much about our ‘collective diversity’ of revelation concerning the absolutes of God’s character.

    After twice distilling then jettisoning another treatise I’ll answer with an illustrative rhetorical question pulled straight from the NT:
    “Would you allow yourself to dine on food that had been presented as a sacrifice to a pagan God? Why or why not?

    [‘food’ for thought at: 1 John 3; 1 Cor 4 & 8; Rom 14]

    Bottom line for me:
    My eternal future depends on whether I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was/is the revelation of God’s unwavering, eternal and absolute Truth. I am thankful the Messiah sent his Holy Spirit to indwell us to teach us and guide us into all truth.

    But I would err, if I confused *access* to the author of absolute Truth with having actually *perceived/understood* all absolute truth. Sinful pride says I have little to learn about God’s ways. And that pride slips easy into making judgments that are reserved for God alone.

    Where are the grey areas? What is essential to the faith? Behold the countless permutations of demoninations encompassing the spiritual Body of Christ.

    My take? There are far fewer absolutes revealed in scripture than most religion will allow.

    Apostle Paul had a revelation or two about ‘Truth’. Even then his confidence was tempered by humility:

    “So for me, it is a minor matter that I am judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself.
    For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not acquitted because of this. The one who judges me is the Lord.
    So then, do not judge anything before the time. Wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the motives of hearts. Then each will receive recognition from God.” 1Co 4:3-5

    Finally, these words that seem to validate the truism “The more you learn, the more you learn that you don’t know.”

    Per Paul in 1 Cor 8:2
    “If someone thinks he knows something, he does not yet know to the degree that he needs to know.”

    I’d go further, but my conscience won’t allow me.
    [that was for you, dear poohpity! :)

  44. poohpity says:

    dmg stated, “So, if I say that I am the adulterous woman whom Jesus did not condemn, then I should also likewise not condemn or accuse those Pharisees and Scribes who had condemned me”. I think being that the adulterous woman recognized her need for forgiveness and the Pharisees/Scribes looked at the adulterous woman and not their own sin and Jesus did condemn them because of their hearts/religiosity. To be humble and recognize one’s need or to looking at others and saying my sin is not as bad as theirs would lead one to believe themselves as being superior. So that would be relative to our opinion of who we are compared to what the absolute truth says about all.

  45. daisymarygoldr says:

    To follow the absolutes“…let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus”. Let us not focus on the relatives of dmg or the superior or inferior sins of others!

    This new concept of ‘absolutes/relatives” has turned out to be very beneficial for me to examine and test whether my faith is genuine. Found the following relatives in some of the other resources and felt they are good questions that help me think about my own relative understanding of absolute truths:

    Relative 1: “How saved are you?
    • Fire escape?
    • Superficial attachment?
    • Burning desire to live for the King?”

    – Bill Crowder in “The Portrait of changed lives”-Part 3, Pastor’s Blog, Dec 9th

    Relative 2: “Do you really understand and order your life around the truth that God is your Father, or are you more enamored with the idea of being His friend?”

    – Joe Stowell in “Father and Friend”- Strength for the Journey, Dec 9th

  46. foreverblessed says:

    If we as a collective body would cling to the one absolute: It is Christ and Him crucified, wouldn’t we be more One Body?
    And leave the relative alone. So if the one for his conscience can eat the food dependent talks about, offered to idols, and the other counts it as sin and can’t, leave each other alone. If one keeps a day Holy to the Lord and the other doesn’t, keep each other alone.
    Romans 14. v8 for we live tot the Lord, and we die to the Lord, So wether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

  47. foreverblessed says:

    And even the Trinity, we talk about a God who is far beyond what we can see. We are not saved by a proper understanding of God, but by His Son Jesus Christ.
    I know this goes a bit far, I believe in I am baptised in the water, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
    But when I read in Revelation about the sevenfold Spirit of God before His throne, Revelation 1:3-5, what does that mean???

  48. SFDBWV says:

    In my experiance being a Christian and listening to other Christians, I am sometimes amazed at some of the statements that come from some.

    “How saved are you” From Daisy’s comments above quoted from Bill Crowder. I just don’t know where to begin, without giving away my disapointment and may I say disgust at the using of a little statement like that, to harm other new and weak believers.

    Many people out here in this world, suffer from feelings of inferiority. such a statement as that only harms such people; Who need to know that their salvation, counts as good as anyones.

    There is NO degree of salvation. It is a *free gift* offered by God. Nothing anyone *does* can earn it or improve upon it.

    To believe otherwise is an insult to God and waters down the sacrifice offered by Jesus.


  49. SFDBWV says:

    7… the number of completeness.

    I have listened to some amazing Bible scholars who may have an answer for you, Foreverblessed. Concerning the 7 fold spirit of God, stated in Revelation. But I have found that a great many of the symbols found in Revelation are answered in the Books of Exodus,Leviticus,Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

    The study of Revelation can muster a great many imaginations. This is always dangerous to rely on our imagination whereas God is concerned.

    However I am sure if you really want to understand, through the study of His Word and with the aid of the Holy Spirit, you will find the answer that satisfies your spirit. Good hunting.


  50. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    Forgive my delay in responding to you but the time difference gets in the way sometimes.
    I will be praying for you and your workmates and friends.
    I particulaly feel burdened for your colleague with lymphoma, there seems to be no compassion left in this world, people just follow proceedures and tic boxes.
    Frank and Steve are wonderful examples of answered prayer.
    Frank, I praise God for Jim’s recovery and thank Him for answered prayer. Jim was so close to leaving us to be with Jesus, it is so wonderful that Jesus met him and talked with him. It gives us all such a boost to our faith and hope we have in our Messiah.

  51. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    “There is NO degree of salvation. It is a *free gift* offered by God. Nothing anyone *does* can earn it or improve upon it.”

    Amen & Amen to that.

    I am sure Daisy did not mean the phrase “How saved are you?” to undermine anyone’s faith in Jesus. Like a text message, it is so easy to mis-understand the brief comments made on this blog.
    If only we could al chat off air or face to face iot would be so much easier. Like Kaliko, I to need the fellowship this apace provides to help me grow in Christ and sometimes just to face the day ahead.
    No Ice storm here, still 12C and sunny today.

  52. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Without typo’s

    If only we could all chat off air or face to face it would be so much easier. Like Kaliko, I to need the fellowship this space provides to help me grow in Christ and sometimes, just to face the day ahead.

  53. SFDBWV says:

    Bob, each time I write anything on this Blog, I keep in mind that there are an untold number of people who may read my comments.

    All of the are at various places in their life and for some at various places with God.

    So I must always try to be mindful of them, when I speak. And so choose my words carefuly so as not to hurt anyone.

    Of course Daisy was only quoting another, my rebuff is aimed at the error of the statement.

    There are NO superior Christians, there are people who are stronger in their faith and more confident in their relationship with God. But none superior to another.

    Jesus said that if you want to be first, you first must be last.Matt19:30 Matt23:11,12. There is none superior in that comment, only a desire to be.

    I am glad your weather is better than mine, Bob. Today it is gray and cold (21f) and snowing. But warest of greeting unto you.


  54. SFDBWV says:

    warmest…See Bob, typos for us both.


  55. Hisgirl4life says:

    Greetings…it’s a balmy -20 outside with wind chill…but the sun is shining and God is still good, loving and seated on the throne!

    Praise to God for restoring Jim’s health. What an awesome God and healer he is!

    Kaliko…Although it may seem that God is testing your faith now, He will always be near giving you the strength to endure all that He allows in your life. When thinking about absolute truths and relatism I’m reminded often of the verses that seem to sum up Christ’s desire in each of us. I pray they will be a comfort and an encouragement to you, Kaliko, and to all those here going through difficult times. I’ve added some Biblical emphasis and also some human thought in ().

    They read in Philippians 4: 5-9: “Let your gentleness be evident to all (have compassion on others…you haven’t walked in their shoes). The Lord is near (and “He will never leave or forsake you”). Do not be anxious about anything (put aside all fear, doubt, worry and whatever troubles you), but in everything (circumstances, relationships and hardships), by prayer and petition (God’s most powerful communicative tool), with thanksgiving (and a joy-filled heart…even when things happen in life that we don’t understand), present your requests to God (ask, believe, expect, receive and give thanks for God’s answers). And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding (others watching may not understand your peace and may try to steal your peace), will guard (protect) your hearts and your minds (your thougths) in Christ Jesus (our Savior).

    Finally, brothers, whatever is true (God’s Word to us), whatever is noble (honorable), whatever is right, whatever is pure (God is Holy), whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-think about such things (postitive). Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or see in me-put it into practice (even though in your humanness you will never achieve Christ’s perfect example, ask God to create in you a heart like Jesus). And the God of peace will be with you.”

  56. poohpity says:

    It is so neat we are having this discussion on this site and my son comes home today and talks about a conversion that went on in class today which reflects the topic.

    The topic was if Jesus being God said to His disciples, Matthew 24:36 “But no one knows the date and hour the end will be–not even the angels. No, nor even God’s Son. Only the Father knows. If one were to look at this passage relative to the identity of Jesus would you say that Jesus is all knowing as God the Father is? Good conversation and so fitting with our topic.

    It is so exciting that when the Lord has a point to be made to me more than one person will come around to push the point home and clear my thinking up. I just love the Lord and how He works.

  57. kingsdaughter says:

    pooh…was it a conversion that took place in his class or a conversation? I think I know the answer ;)

    It is my very humble novice opinion but perhaps Jesus was stressing His part of the Trinity at the time as flesh (albeit perfect)…that He did not know the time himself as He is speaking to the disciples. Perhaps in the Transfiguration He became all-knowing as the Father Who art in Heaven…. Just my 2 cents worth.

    God bless all who read here….In Christ.


  58. kingsdaughter says:

    I have other questions that I would like responses to that don’t seem to fit anywhere within these blogs…is there a “page” here that just allows random questions concerning different theological questions? I would like to have some input from others in my seeking.

    Thank You,

  59. daisymarygoldr says:

    Kaliko88: thank you for sharing your heart’s burden for your friends! They are being prayed for and you are also in my daily prayers…

    Frank: Happy to hear that God has been good to Jim. Good ol’ Grandma’s chicken soup is the best remedy for cold! Pray and hope that your cold goes away…

    Aside to Bob: I want to let you know that in this entire blog, you are one among the very few with whom my spirit relates to God’s Spirit in you. And I am not saying this because you rightly understood the intention of my comment but because I know that The One who has called you is faithful and so no matter what… job or no job, be faithful till the very end! That is my sincere prayer for you…

    Steve, Just wanted to clarify that the quotes in my comment were meant just for me and were not intended for you or the others here or anybody else who come in to read this blog. The quoted portion has to be read in its entire context of 3 parts of the message on “The Portrait of changed lives”.

    Personally for me, that whole message aligns with the absolute truth in God’s Word and I find it very beneficial to my walk with the Lord. In fact, both the excerpts which were quoted in my comment are perfect examples of what it means to shepherd and feed the flock of Jesus.

    Shepherds who feed their congregations with junk food that delights their taste buds and teach truth relative to changing trends of current times… are tickling the ears of errant, unrepentant people with false assurances of God’s love, grace, mercy and compassion… in doing this, they are only setting up the sheep for spiritual death.

    Absolute truths are certainly offensive to my flesh but greatly profit my spirit! It nourishes and makes even a weak sheep like me to grow and become healthy and strong.

    Having said that, we must remember that God’s absolute truth is a disgusting stench of death to those who perish but it is the life-giving power to those who are being saved!

  60. daisymarygoldr says:

    foreverblessed, Well said! “If we as a collective body would cling to the one absolute” is exactly what the Lord desires and what all of us hope for…

    …but the truth is: God’s absolute truth divides the very body of Christ and doubtless there have to be divisions so that they who are genuine and have God’s approval will be plainly recognized among us. 1 Cor 11:19

    Many seek to follow the narrow absolutes of the Christian way of life and few are those who find it. Many accept the seed of God’s absolute truth with great joy, but only a quarter faithfully remain to yield fruits in plenty!

    In John 6:2 great multitudes followed Jesus with ulterior motives to selfishly scavenge on His love, grace, mercy and compassion in the form of food, temporal earthly blessings of prosperity and healing, and feel-good sermons. Jesus did not deny anything to anyone but went about feeding and healing.

    However, in John 6:70 the number of followers dwindled to just 11, the moment Jesus spoke of the commitment, dedication and devotion that was required to follow Him. The absolute truth in His teaching that disappointed many to desert… was the ultimate cost of what it takes to follow Christ!

    May God enable us to be counted among the faithful few that truly follow Christ to love God and love one another!

  61. jjhis says:

    Thanks Hisgirl4life for encouraging us with the verses in Philippians 4.

    In answer to your question, “is it possible that some of us are so committed to defending “absolute truth” that we forget how “relative” our understanding can be?”, my answer is yes for myself. It is humbling to be shown that one is wrong or has spoken in haste, pride, or anger when speaking about the absolute truth in the Word of God. The verse in Proverbs 10:19 says, “when words are many, transgression is not lacking”.
    But thanks be to God for Jesus who has taken our sins to His Cross and paid the cost of our forgiveness with His blood. So that we might go on shooting off the lip with our own opinions/understanding? Heaven forbid! No, so that we may rely upon the Holy Spirit He has given us to teach, lead, and guide us into the truth of the Word. May we purchase freely the knowledge, wisdom, and understanding which He seeks to give those whom He has called. A favorite verse of many is Proverbs 3:5 “trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.” James gives us another admonition when he writes in 3:2, “for we all stumble in many ways, and if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.”
    May we honor Jesus by allowing Him to open our eyes of understanding so that we may focus on Him and by the power of the Holy Spirit proclaim His message of repentance to all.
    “Will you not revive us again, that your people may rejoice in you?”

  62. poohpity says:

    kingsdaughter, You were right it was conversation thank you for pointing out my typo.

    It was not for response but to point out how Absolute Truth sometimes is relative to the audience. If it was something that could have been understood completely by the disciples I believe Jesus would have went into further detail but it was not. Just more understanding for the topic.

    There are so many truths that are given us yet we do not do what we are directed to do by Jesus. We argue over minor details while neglecting to put the Lord first in our lives (i.e. daily bible reading, prayer and worship) then we would understand more of what God intended for us to do by looking after the oppressed, hungry, lonely, tired, cold, and lost. We are so consumed with our own lives and things of this earth we fail to devote ourselves to God by being a servant to the Master.

  63. poohpity says:

    Amen, jjhis.

  64. kingsdaughter says:

    OOohhh ok, pooh sorry…I was being “witty’ in pointing out the typo…not critical.

    and I am sorry about the response….but it did make me think.

    I agree we always miss the mark…

    “Be ye doers of the Word, not hearers only.” James 1:22 and

    27) “External religious worship (religious as it is expressed in outward acts) that is pure and umblemished in the sight of God the Father is this: to visit and help and care for the orphans and widows in their affliction and need, and to keep oneself unspotted and uncontaminated from the world.”

  65. poohpity says:

    kingsdaughter, I am very light hearted and do not take offense easily so no worries. Things that do get me are calling names or talking down to others. I think about the topic through out the day and I guess one would say I think in fragments so I come back and say a blurb. I do however have a hard time sometimes trying to type what I am thinking and sometimes it is good that I do not type what is in my mind, LOL. I try and use some self control and patience but it does not always work. :-)

  66. foreverblessed says:

    About absolute truth, I believe that there are things I do not know yet. Today I read an article about a severe handicapped child that was touched by Christ at the age o 7. She lived with Jesus, He taught her, reading scripture from childhood, explaining. Then when she has finished university, she thought she would be used in His ministry. But the Holy Spirit answers her: You do not yet know enough of the Kingdom of God. Go into the slumbs of India, these people will tell you what the Kingdom of God is about.

    That statement struck me! As some already have mentioned, the humble, the meek, those who reach out to the burdened people, but sent by God Himself, working through His Spirit.
    What do I know of the Kingdom, other then that I pray, They Kingdom come?

  67. foreverblessed says:

    I would like to say something about us praying, when Frank asked prayer for Jim it took a while for me to set myself to praying for him, it was when migraine was putting me to bed, that it came, the prayer, I say, the prayer was started by me, but then it came, something from Above came and gave me this prayeer, it was none of me, yet I was with the prayer, it was about life for Jim, and I had to keep on praying, it took a long time, and it still came. This has happened to me before, sometimes,not often. But this time I read about what actually happened while we were praying. And I am overwhelmed by it, what happened to Jim. Thanks Frank for telling about it.
    I do not like to talk about it, but nobody know who I am. But it was God doing this, He started this prayer, and finished it. After the prayer, God gave me the assurance that everything would be OK with Jim. But I did not write that on the blog. He was still in coma.
    So, people who believe in Jesus, this is real. This is Gods Kingdom.
    Prayer is real, the real reality in Gods realm.
    Bless God, praise Him, sing for Him. Seek Him, and you will find Him. And He fills us.
    And keep on praying, even if not every time things happen as miraculous as this time with Jim. Because other prayers are also working, only not as instantaneuos, they need a lot more prayer. Much prayer.
    But praise God first, be sure you are His beloved child, even if prayers are not answered immiediately.
    Do not give up faith because of that, keep on praying like Eliajah James 5

  68. kingsdaughter says:


    When I asked in an above post about another page at this site for random theological questions I did not mean I want others…as in other people besides you guys…I mean others outside myself…for input and answers.

    Just wanted to clarify…thanks


  69. kingsdaughter says:

    foreverblessed….what a wonderful prayer experience! It is a good thing for Jim that your migraine went away for your prayers to be said. Please pray for me as I am struggling with my son’s absence…and the constant nagging by satan that I never did enough, never prayed the right words, etc… there are lingering questions that will take me to my grave. Please pray.

    In Christ,

  70. pegramsdell says:

    When satan is accusing the brethren in heaven, Jesus is our defender. Satan accuses, Jesus forgives – claims us as His – end of story. No matter what we have done or will do, we are forgiven because of what HE already did. If we are His, He will always defend us and pray for us. And He chooses to forgive us and He doesn’t look at our sin again.

    The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love, and The Lord is good to all, and He has compassion to all that He has made, and as far as the east is from the west, that’s how far….he has removed our transgressions from us…..Psalm 130

    So…we don’t have to listen to satan telling us what we have done in our past, our mistakes, our sins…etc…we get to hear Our Father say that we are forgiven. He loves us and He understands. And it’s going to be all right! Hang in there Dale. Peg

  71. foreverblessed says:

    Dear Dale, the migraine didn’t go away, because the migraine didn’t go away, I started to pray while having it, that means, when the worst is over. So that’s why bad things can turn out into being used for good. That’s why I now know more the meaning of Paul writing: Col 1:24
    Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

    Dale I will pray for you, for the abscence of your son, but for the nagging accustations, I will pray for you that you will be strong in your faith in Chirst, just as Peg writes. What you need to do is to send those nagging thoughts away, And do that while speeking out loud, as soon as these thoughts come inot your mind, grap them and throw them out. Before youstart to think about them too long you will think they are your own thoughts, and start to believe them.

  72. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    If you want to ask a question “off topic” there is a ‘contact us’ link in the Comment Guidelines section at the top of the blog.
    It seems to be rather structured in format, but you can leave you email address and I expect someone will help you.
    You are always in my prayers!


  73. poohpity says:

    Please pray for the family of a little 7 year old boy who drowned in the canal right down from where I live. They still have not found his body.

  74. kingsdaughter says:

    Debbie.. I will pray for that child’s family. What a very sad day…it is a terrible thing to lose a child…

    Thank you Peg and Foreverblessed…for prayers and encouragement. This suffering is still new…my son being gone from me…I know I may post over and over again the same concerns…Please bear with me as I need constant reassurance..I do not think it is a lack of faith on my part but so much has gone on in our lives from this horrible incident and my mind just does its twists and turns. Mostly to do with my son’s frame of mind if he did this and his own spiritual condition, I know he was saved but I still read things straight from the Bible that make me wonder about how I have misunderstood God’s word and may have passed that along to my own son. That if he killed himself he had lost all hope…that the angels allowed him to “dash his foot upon a rock.” He is in heaven, yes. But I am in complete sorrow without him in my life.

    The not knowing …it is the worst part of a loss to a so-called suicide…see…I can’t even think of it as a suicide. So much turmoil. But I am constantly searching for God in all of this…through sermons and writings, devotionals, and here….I will read verses that sometimes jab me in the heart and those very words take me down a road I cannot bear to travel…the “why didn’t I’s.” I have spoken it, and have told satan to flee…to go to hell…but he doesn’t stay there for long…one day I hope I triumph over this once and for all.

    Thank you, Bob, for the answer to my question. It will be nice to have some of my personal questions answered. I am also grateful for your prayer, too. I in turn pray for those who minister to me as I endure and struggle with this trial. All are so kind here.

  75. poohpity says:

    How will you ever find out what was in the mind of your son? Can you change any of the parenting you did? Did you parent the best you know how? It is hard enough losing someone what happens if the questions are never answered? I do not believe for one moment that your son would want you to harm yourself any further with questions that the answer may never be found out. Remember the wonderful times you spent together and leave the rest in God’s hands. Celebrate the time you had with him. We can not change the past but we can embrace our good memories and move forward. Much love is sent your way and major hugs.

  76. afranz says:

    Dear Kingsdaughter,
    Usually I just read the blogs, pray about requests, and go on with the day. However, I would like to offer some hope for your situation. My dad took his own life some 30 years ago. A lot of your questions and feelings are the same ones I had then. God gave me peace that it was not my fault, or my mom’s, or anyone else. Peace did not occur all at once, or in such a way that I was aware of each step.
    While you may be reliving the circumstances and over and over because of Satan’s arrows, I believe your son is safe with our LORD and not suffering. Keep studying scripture and trusting Jesus to show you the way. He will bring the healing you need. God bless. Lisa

  77. marma says:

    I appreciated foreverblessed 3am comment & question, “What does that mean?” because it highlights something we all need to admit, that you can study God’s Word for life, and still not understand everything. However, the Holy Spirit gives us understanding for what we need to know at the moment.

  78. kingsdaughter says:

    thank you all for your encouragement…I would never be able to do this without you. Thank you Lisa, for sharing your own personal story of loss to suicide. I have hope that I will come out from under this burden in God’s good time.

    In Christ,

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