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The Masculine and Feminine Spirit

Spent time over the weekend with two books that looked at the spirit of masculinity and femininity in the church from two different perspectives. One of these books, written by Denise George, is titled What Women Wish Pastors knew and is subtitled “Understanding the Hopes, Hurts, Needs, and Dreams of Women in the Church. The other book, by David Murrow, is Why Men Hate Going to Church.

One book approaches the problem from the side of exhausted, worn out women who sense that the church is a men’s club where women’s hearts are neither listened to or understood. The other side sees the church as a ladies’ club that is dominated and run by women.

Let me give you one excerpt from Murrow. He says on page 135, “Ninety-five percent of the senior pastors in America are men, but you could not tell it by the sermons they preach. Weakness, humility relationships, communication, support, and feelings are constantly held up as the ideal values of a Christian… Men get the message that Christ-likeness is synonymous with Mom-likeness.”

While using the long weekend to look out the window…and catch more than enough of NCAA Bowl Games and NFL playoff talks… reading both books side by side has me thinking.

P.S. One of my co-workers just read the above and asked if I forgot to add what I’ve “been thinking” (smile). Sorry if the ending of this post seemed abrupt. I knew that some of our group would jump in at this point. Am planning to follow through in the next few days with excerpts from the books to show why men and women need to listen to one another

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52 Responses to “The Masculine and Feminine Spirit”

  1. chfranke says:

    Didn’t have much to go on from your post this morning. I’ve read David Morrow’s book and thought it had some very insightful observations about what churches could do to re-engage men in worship. For main-line churches to reverse their dropping enrollment I think they need to pay attention to the ideas in this book.

    I shared the book around my church and got mixed feelings from both men and women. One woman thought it was right on. Another woman thought it was very man-centric. A couple of men thought it was a little insulting to the men who are already active in their church.

    I haven’t read Denise George’s book so I checked out some online reviews that were helpful.

    One reviewer says;
    “Mrs. George accurately reports on what
    women are saying. I do recommend reading
    this book as it relates to what women are
    experiencing. Pastor, the solutions can be
    found in helping the men of your church find
    Christ and mature in Him. If our churches
    truly want to minister to women and children
    it is imperative to re-engage men.”

    Another reviewer says:
    “I do think that a lot of what she asked and reported pertained to both men and women so the book should be “What Christians want Their Pastors to Know.”

    I haven’t dug into scripture to find appropriate reference to this subject. Maybe someone else will do that here.

    I don’t think there is one side verses another. It looks like both books have important points of view that need to be taken into account in designing a worship service that will meet peoples needs.

  2. SFDBWV says:

    Not only are men and women different, but the multi-blend of people are different…What is it that a person wants to get from going to church? How is church perceived?

    Most people are familiar with the Rorschach ink blot tests. Where one looks at a series of ink blotches and tells what they see in each picture.

    The idea being that our inner self is seen in the way we see things.

    Personaly I think the world around us is the same. I believe that we see things as the things inside us are exposed.

    Jessie Ventura the ex-Governor and ex-wrestler once said that christianity is for weaklings who hide their inabilities behind their religion…he thinks being tough and strong on his own can give him the success he seeks in life. So he don’t need help nor a savior.

    God allows such people to continue on, in their false sense of ignorant arrogance, because those kinds of people have a destiny from their own reults.

    People like him have no sense of the actions of God all around them, nor do they see the relationship between history and the hand of God….because they are blind, as well as deaf and so dumb to the *Truth*.

    It is Jesus the Christ who came into the world to give sight to the blind, to allow the deaf to hear and as so give voice to their recognition and submission to God, through His Son Jesus of Nazareth.

    Does a man go to church in order to be in a social gathering, or to pay respect publicly to Christ? Only that person knows.

    I know a couple men who go to church in order to look for women.

    Most people can read scripture, learn from it and have a very nice personal relationship with God. But God also wants us to gather together for our own strength as well as for our helping one another. It is no law nor will we be punished for not attending church, but we do miss out on the fellowship and comfort of other believers if we can’t or don’t go.

    I am not qualified to say why another either does or don’t go to church. I can only say that there is strength in numbers and that we can learn from others if we are open to allow it. I don’t see it as gender oriented, but rather as a courageous public statement of ones faith.


  3. oneg2dblu says:

    Mart… you’ve opened another can of worms,~~~!
    Thank you for finding topics that stir within us, the things we need to address internally, and share with others as well. You have the gift, and how you share it… gives back to the giver,”All the Glory!”

  4. BruceC says:

    I’m not sure if “men folk” will ever fully understand “wimmins”; and vice versa.
    I also wonder if both men and women expect too much from the church body. In the church we attend I really don’t see where either is left out of things; so to speak. However I do see that the women have more groups or activities than the men. Relationships in life seem to be one of the things that always seem tricky. I guess a lot depends on the individuals involved. Some are more sensitive than others; while some seem to have thicker skin. Interesting topic though. Looking foward to reading more. Being the “black sheep” of both sides of the family gives my wife and I lots to deal with.

    Soli Deo Gloria!

  5. oneg2dblu says:

    chfranke… “For main-line churches to reverse “THEIR”
    dropping enrollment I think they need to pay attention to the ideas in this book.” WOW! It makes me think how much “more powerful” that statement could have been, if you had said, “HIS BOOK” instead!
    If in gaining larger enrollment, it means tweaknig the word a little to fit the itching ears of those who prefere a more worldly form of preaching? We may be loosing more souls, in exchange, for filling more seats!
    I beleive, there is a line that must not be crossed, in an attempt to please the masses. For then, we start to hear things like, “What Christians WANT their pastors to know?”
    That is scary stuff to hear, when it should be, “What Christ wants Pastors to know, and Preach!
    The “Ungendered/unadulterated Word” will save more souls, then any watered down version that ultimately fills the sanctuary!
    Who are we really trying to please, if we worry about
    worldly numbers, the menu at the church cafe, the type of music and service, and “MISS THE MESSAGE” in the process! Please do not get me wrong, I’m not condemning all change, as long as it doesn’t change the message for the means…
    Whether we have more MALE or FEMALE, doesn’t matter, as HE equally calls us both. We only need to OBEY HIS WORD, and leave the Consecquences of the resulting numbers, to HIM WHO CALLS! Are we divided? Yes, right down the middle… But, IN CHRIST… we are the perfect
    number and gender, for WE are HIS!
    PS I also love my chuches Dark Roast, for like the message, it is “not” watered down! LOL

  6. oneg2dblu says:

    SFDBWV… multi blend of people are different?
    How about the multi-blend of churches, who all call themselves Christiain?
    No wonder the world at large can’t figure it out!
    Only *HIS TRUTH* is the perfect blend for them, but where do they go to hear it? I guess that would be where God calls them, wouldn’t it?

  7. scout1 says:

    Interesting post. The authors of those books should get together and use these differences and recognize the strengths in each.

    The differences are the strengths. Like the Mom and Dad difference -kids need both! Moms bring a feminine aspect and the Dad brings masculine aspect in certain degrees from both. The balance of the two should work together.

    Just Thoughts. . .

  8. paula182 says:

    Since my husband and I do not attend any choice of church, all of the comments posted thus far are interesting perspectives. We’ve just wanted to locate one that we could both feel comfortable in. Years ago we tried several different denominations and were unable to get any sense of unity in any of them. Maybe we don’t look correctly, maybe we expect to much, or not enough. Maybe we don’t know what we were looking for, or maybe we …. who knows. We stopped looking and now I read RBC as well as look at these posts. My husband will occasionally entertain the excerpt I read him, but for the most part keeps his own counsel. It was easy to identify with BruceC’s “black sheep” comment and to read concerns about how those who attend and belong to congregations view the topic. It had me thinking about how the first Cristians got started. Fascinating to realize how it is the men mentioned in the gospels and epistles as joining since they were the dominant factor of that time and women were not much more than property. And yet there are those passages mentioning this woman or that one prompted her mate to look more closely into Christianity. Yes, it certainly gives one something to think about. To God be the Glory.

  9. SFDBWV says:

    The assembling of people together to worship, gets its roots in our Hebrew basics. However in early synagogue worship, women were not permitted to be included. Only as observers.

    Christ brought a new perspective to being children of God, we are all the same. He stated to the Sadducees that in the resurection we are the same (Matthew 22:30).

    They being ignorant of a resurection, and of scripture in Jesus’s opinion.

    Christianity has elevated women in life, as well as the duties of worship and fellowship of Christ…There being no gender placed on the commands and examples of Christian living…


  10. SFDBWV says:

    oneg2dblu, What denominational chruch do you attend? Have you placed yourself under the leadership of a pastor? Do you submit yourself to the elders or leaders in your church?


  11. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Our church is very small, about 20 core people, and is lacking in Men.
    When I am listening to the enemy and not my Lord, I often feel it is a church run by women for women but, in reality, it is a church run by people for people.
    God has always placed man in authority but with the provision that he loves his wife etc. more than himself and visa versa.
    I do feel some churches are too large and that God prefers to work in smaller groups.
    We meet together to encourage one another in Christ and in love.
    Jesus really showed us that there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile or Men and Women, we are all equal in Him. He may prefer to have the men take charge as this is His natuaral order but, if no man says “Here I am Lord use me” and 20 women say they are willing to serve Him then He will use whoever is willing.
    As we know from scripture, God often uses the weakest among us who are also sometimes reluctant, like Moses, to take that first step.
    I learnt something in church this weekend.
    Gods Kingdom is here and we are to live in it.

    Romans 14:17 (New American Standard Bible)

    17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

    God has sacrificed so much so we can live in this “kingdom” culture. If we live in this Kingdom and are completly immersed in the Holy Spirit there will be righteousness, peace and joy in every part of our lives and the minor differences that make us men, women or anthing else, will fade away and we will be seen as the children of the living God by our love for one another.


  12. cor13agape says:

    oneg2dblu says: one2dblu you hit it on the head.

    Jesus warns us that right shall become wrong and wrong shall become right.

    If we stay true to HIS WORD Christians will grow in spirit; as for Chruches they will grow either way, just who are the growing for?

  13. poohpity says:

    When I was in school studying behavior health my eyes were open to a lot of issues that both genders have had implanted into their nature from social norms. Over time and changes it would seem that our societies have done much damage to the gender roles and have dictated how those “should” look in each culture. I have taken steps back looked and watched what is happening in our churches today and they for the most part seem to be running in so many different directions trying to placate the masses. Over the years they seem to change which is normal but I do not know if some of those changes are due to gender or just people wanting their own way and to be entertained.

    The funny thing to me is that women seem to go more than men yet the churches are run by men. Go figure! That is in America and western cultures. Then in places like Africa I noticed that women tend to run the churches along side of men but are more prone to be the leaders because there are more women than men. I think that God sometimes uses those who have been oppressed to confront the wisdom of the oppressors. Which maybe what is happening to women around the world.

    These are just some of my observations so I hope not to get anyone’s anger stirred up. I thought that especially in the church that we are all called to be of ONE Spirit and allow Christ to be the head. I guess it would seem that pride and control issues prevent that from happening.

    Women seem to have had it programed in us to more of a servitude role not servant hood which there is a big difference. While on the outside it would seem that men are serving their families by being the hunter gathers and protectors but it seems to have turned into lording and domineering.

    I think it is so wonderful that the glimpses of heaven we are given the only One who has the for front at all is God. We have even genderized God who has no specific gender if man and women were made in their image it would seem that God understands both. Then Jesus is specifically a man but it is emphasizes born of a women which shows to me that both genders are very, very important in a functioning as the body.

    I hope there will come a time that we can enjoy the uniqueness of both genders and understand the value of both as a whole recognizing that we are whole people mind, body and souls that all need the care of our Creator and each other with each with their unique gifts to honor God not each person.

  14. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… my church is a Crist-centered, Whole Bible Teaching Non-denominational gathering of Christ Followers, who genereally do not use Christian to ID ourselves, but ‘Christ Followres, and Lifelong Learners of God’s Word!’ Although one could say our roots have a Baptist leaning theology. the actual following, or church is called Calvary Chapel, and has it own distintives as well.
    I do have a very blessed pastor, actually several pastors, elders and deacons, all Called and Used by
    God to achieve the highest degree of Biblical based Godly Values, stressing the Importance of Baptism,
    but understanding fully, it is not required for Salvation. I do give them authority over how the church is governed, how the body is taught, and how we collectivly use our time, talents, and tithes, for the Glory of God! But of course, we are always told that God is the Ultimate Authority Above All Things, for we are only common people who have the same issues with our nature as any other man does, but we have a Saviour Jesus Christ, who gives us the authority to act according to God’s Word! No freaky stuff going on here.
    Just orderly structured gatherings, where the Presence of the Holy Spirit, that Blesses us in seeing so many come to surrender themselves to Christ and be Saved. I’ve sat for years in dead churches, hearing many unanswered calls go out, but now, I experience something much different. We are growing constantly, and not by changing God’s Word for the masses. Sorry I rambled on. All mis-spellings and typos are mine alone. Gary

  15. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… we also beleive that many other churches do get it right, but many do not! Were not judging them,
    on any numbers game, only by the word they teach, and on what they AVOID teaching. To God be the Glory!

  16. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve…Actually my pastor always stresses that we need to be in small accountable groups, called home groups.
    His message is, people count to God, so Love God,
    and Love people! Be Blessed!
    Of course, I’m a work in prgress, and that is one reason
    why I’m here, to let me know God is growing me…
    through this blog, and the help and correction that HE brings into our lives through others.

  17. poohpity says:

    I would say something but I promised to watch my blog police status, LOL.

  18. SFDBWV says:

    I appologize for deviating from the topic, but that bird kill in Arkansas is now up to 5000, with 100,000 dead fish found in the Arkansas River?????

    Thank you oneg2dblu for your reply.

    It would be nice if we all concerned ourselves with our own relationship with God, and not worry too much about how wrong others are. However it is to be remembered that we are human and as such have a long way to go in obtaining the spiritual wisdom we seek.

    At best we can try every spirit and see if it matches up with the Word of God, and agrees, that Jesus is Lord.

    Remembering that even the angels submit to God the power to rebuke another (Jude 9)


  19. foreverblessed says:

    What is it that killed these birds and sooo many fish? A good detective to find out!

    TO write about this topic, and add to the comments already made:
    I think that men have to find their femine side and work on it,
    and women have to find their masculine side and work on it.

    And both sides need to be developed to be a whole men/women.

    This usually happens when people get older.
    But in His church this could happen earlier, if both sides would have a chance.

    God has given to mothers many of His character traits. He looks after the lame the sick the feeble, the old, and that is what mothers have to do, (and afcourse fathers as well but often they do have jobs and are away from home during the day), as they live with their little children and care for them.
    I think that pastors have to have character traits of mothers … as they got them from their Father in heaven.
    Isiaiah 46:3-5

  20. foreverblessed says:

    I have only one question, it is good to go to the bible, but if we do not do this with the mind and Spirit of Jesus, it is of no use.
    I had read the bible much and much, and did not see the centre of it, and that is Jesus, go to Jesus first and then go to the bible.
    I was in a church who was more legally busy with tho law of God, instead of busu with the love of God, and so great is His love that He gave His son so we could be rescued from the power of death, John 3:16

    and: 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

    We feed on Jesus,
    we look to Him
    and we read in the gospels who Jesus was, and how He was, and how much He was with women and children, so unlike the way the men at that time were. Jesus was very caring, and that is a good example for all of us, to care for the weak the ones that are slow, that leg behind. Like a good shepherd looking close to the end of the flog.
    And we ask every day more of His love, and faith and hope.

  21. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… you are “right on” with that statement, to try all spirits to see if they align with God’s Word!
    If not, lay claim to your indwelling spirit that God has given you, as decerning to protect you, and move on!
    I must admit that every church I have felt led to try,
    I’ve learned something of value for my growth in the Lord, even if it is only to know in my spirit, that I do not belong there, and need to get out! I Obey!

  22. oneg2dblu says:

    Discerning would be a better word! Although, I’ve been known to make up some that work as well!

  23. oneg2dblu says:

    Foreverblessed… great comment about making sure we don’t jusr read the words. Even the worldly can read the words. But if we open ourselves up, and submit to what Christ wants us to learn, through those very same words we get HIS message for us, and that, the world cannot see. Your communion verses work well when used in this context! Feeding on Him, the world cannot understand, so they cannot partake with the right attitude required. Gary

  24. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed… male or female, probably doesn’t have the impact it should for one parent families, but in the house I was rasised up in, having both parents, I thank God for a mother who was the spiritual leader. Even if it is not God’s grand design, He still made it work! I have in my possesion, the prayers of a righteuos women, who craved for her children to be with the Lord! Gary

  25. foreverblessed says:

    How blessed are you because of your mothers prayers, that makes me more motivated to pray for my own children!

  26. foreverblessed says:

    this sentence in the 2nd book:
    “Ninety-five percent of the senior pastors in America are men, but you could not tell it by the sermons they preach. Weakness, humility relationships, communication, support, and feelings are constantly held up as the ideal values of a Christian… Men get the message that Christ-likeness is synonymous with Mom-likeness.”

    This is serious. How can anyone write such a thing? OK, about the feelings.
    But if I read this I can see that many women have difficulty with their -christian- husbands if they think like this.
    Isaiah 66
    1 This is what the LORD says:

    “Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
    Where is the house you will build for me?
    Where will my resting place be?
    2 Has not my hand made all these things,
    and so they came into being?”
    declares the LORD.

    “These are the ones I look on with favor:
    those who are humble and contrite in spirit,
    and who tremble at my word.

    (off topic, but now it is high time for me to go to bed.
    God bless you all during the rest of your day.)

  27. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Just been reading the begining of Genesis and it is quiet clear, in the first part that both Man and Woman are made in God’s image. The second more detailed description then says woman was made from man and as a result they become one flesh through marraige.
    If you are single, like me, then I suppose to be complete we must expose both our masculine and feminine traits to be complete in Him. As man and wife you are technically one flesh and can lean on each other and be a whole person as two, just as God is one God but three.
    I guess it makes very little difference which way we aproach this as long as we allow ourselves to be made or remade in Gods image.
    ie. in the likeness of Jesus.


  28. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Time for bed for me to.

    night night!

  29. Regina says:

    Good Evening All
    Hope all is well with you all.
    Mart, Sounds like this is going to be an interesting blog topic. :) Think I’ll wait until you share your thoughts before I comment or read other comments. Looking forward to the discussion.

  30. Rajnesh says:

    Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday season.

    Things got pretty erratic and on the spur of the moment decisions had to be made in a very short time. On Dec 22 I got a confirmation to begin training for a Class A license. I always felt it would be pretty cool to drive those big rigs and at the same time see more of America. Training began Dec 27 in Southern California.

    This past Sunday during breakfast a fellow student found out that there will be a Service taking place in one of the meeting rooms at the hotel and called to let me know. Funny thing is I decided pretty quickly that I’ll miss part of the morning game and attend the Service. They are a Pentacostal group, evenly divided between men and women. The Pastor and his wife are the leaders. It was a small group of about 25 or so. They made me feel so welcome, introduced themselves, shook hands and even hugged me. Loved it, it was beautiful.

    I noticed that they played an almost equal role in leading the congregation.

  31. foreverblessed says:

    About preaching humility
    2 Peter 3:18

    “Grow in grace”—not in one grace only, but in all grace. Grow in that root-grace, faith. Believe the promises more firmly than you have done. Let faith increase in fulness, constancy, simplicity. Grow also in love. Ask that your love may become extended, more intense, more practical, influencing every thought, word, and deed. Grow likewise in humility. Seek to lie very low, and know more of your own nothingness. As you grow downward in humility, seek also to grow upward—having nearer approaches to God in prayer and more intimate fellowship with Jesus.

    This is from this morning devotion of CH Spurgeon, I wish I coud write it like that, then I would not have to use someone else’s writing.
    But how important humility is, and knowing your own weakness. That it would make you to look upwards to Jesus to receive it from Him.
    What if you do not like to hear this in the sermon that is preached in your church?

  32. SFDBWV says:

    Rereading Mart’s opening comments had me smiling at Mart’s ps… I too thought he had ended his comments with something left unsaid.

    When reading one of the books comments that humility, relationships, communications, support, and feelings being attributed to more of *moms* than of *dads* thoughts, are being preached from the pulpit by a majority of men preachers…..I am struck with the thought that the message being preached isn’t from the preacher but rather is the amplification of what Christ taught.

    So the ideals that we need to be humble, have consideration and concern for others, is not a feminine concept but rather a Christian concept, born of love.

    To say that men are somehow devoid of the neccessities to feel or to love puts men in a very dark place…just because we are men.

    To say that only women can feel and give love, is in error.

    I would go so far as to say that to seperate men and women from having the same emotions, is also in error.

    If you watch nature, and observe female and male behavior. You will see two beings doing all they can together to continue their species and to survive, each working together, sometimes sharing the same responsibilites…..Of course there are extreem exceptions in nature…just as there are in human behavior.

    methinks that too much reading can sometimes create too much confusion…


  33. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I think you are right.
    At the end of the day we are all human beings sharing the same emotions, worries and responcibilties.
    That is probably why Jesus made very little distinction between men and women and treated all the same whether the woman caught in adultery, the woman who was bleeding,
    Nicademaus or the Centurian who had faith.
    No one was greater or lower than the other, they all received His blessing.
    I expect there were many women in that upper room when the Holy Spirit came down on the day of Penticost and there are many fine examples of God blessing and using women in both old and new testaments.
    The only real thing that makes us different is our physical bodies that limit both sexes to follow certain roles in life, motherhood, fatherhood etc.


  34. oneg2dblu says:

    Good morning to all… I believe that God desinged all things, to be in balance, His Prefected Creation.
    He desinged us male and female for a reason, it represents perfect balance, not to mention that the fruit of the womb, also completes the command to be Fruitful and Multiply, thus, populate the earth. His design is that one man, and one women, complete His Perfected Design, and all other combinations, created by the wiles of man’s design, have caused an unbalanced side to the equasion. He forenew what the sin nature of mankind would produce, and because of that He gave us,
    in His Word a perfect plan. To make us whole and to complete the way we “should” go. All other paths…
    you are on your own, “making for yourself a pit,” where the perfect plan goes unheaded! Male and female, he
    created them, to follow his plan! We read His Words and then we “makes” our choices!!! Obedience for some, and disobedience for others! But what God wants, and what man wants, do not always co-incide. It is just one more reason why God “had to send” His Only Son to DIE on the CROSS! To show us the full wieght of the cross, He had to carry. So, when we read, You must cntend to hear, Follow Me and take up your cross daily. It should register that we need to “also die to our sin nature,” and put away those things that DO NOT HONOR HIM,or His Design! Be Blessed! All you who Have Ears to Hear, and Eyes to See, that your choices, do have,
    Eternal Consequences. Amen!

  35. dja says:

    I so agree, Steve and Bob. My husband is a big strong guy and is so very tender and caring. He cried the day we got married because he was so happy. When he looks at pictures of our children from years ago, he gets tears in his eyes remembering their childhood days, and, sometimes, I know he is wishing he could still be rolling around the floor with them, hearing them laugh.

    We have been reading through Eccesiastes and this came to mind from the 12th chapter, verses 11 & 12: “The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails, given by one Shephard. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.”
    And, of course, the conclusion is to fear God and keep His commands which is our whole duty. It’s not that I don’t appreciate various books, but I sometimes feel that authors give their own slants and opinions with Scripture, and sometimes, readers of their books take it all as the Word of God and try to live their life using those slants and opinions. I say this because we have done this. Although the book and teaching was on child rearing, in hind sight, we wish we had not taken it as “this is the biblical way to raise our children”, but rather had gone straight to Scripture, following the teachings of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. The Word of God is complete. Many “help” Christian books are good to read, but, I think, we need to be Bereans and not just believe that it squares with Scripture. Some of the most tenderhearted people I know are men. Steve and Bob, although I have never met either of you, just reading your posts tells me that you both fall into the tenderhearted catagorie:-)

    Have a wonderful day!

  36. poohpity says:

    I was mindful of the latest woman and man separation here in Phoenix. There is a nun who stood up for a woman to have an abortion at St. Joseph’s Hospital. Having the child would have been a danger to the child as well as the mother and both may have died. The woman also had four other children. The Catholic Church excommunicated the nun and withdrew their support from the hospital for preforming the abortion. While the other side of this are the priests that were pedophiles in this state and others that were hidden in another perish and not excommunicated. I am wondering how this was justice and how this touched the Spirit of God. Is this showing a distinction between the Masculine and Feminine Spirit?

    The greatest commandment that Jesus gave to follow was; “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all you soul, and with all you mind” Matt 22:37. As many of you have said there is no distinction for the gender role in that. We all have hearts, souls and minds the plumbing may be different but the parts that make a difference to God are the same in both genders.

  37. pegramsdell says:

    I know this is off topic, but, my niece’s daughter Julie is sick at the hospital and she needs prayer. At first they thought it was strep and scarlett fever.
    This is a post from my facebook today:

    “They say Julie is not doing too good. But I know that God is on her side. Thank You Jesus! She has a room at Shands. The doctors say they are leaning towards kawasaki disease or rhuematic fever. Marie said it could be just a really bad viral infection. I’m sure she will be fine. Just talked to her and she sounded good and said she felt better. Gonna see her tonight if she is still there. Thank you for all your prayers and thoughts for Julie and her family.”

  38. oneg2dblu says:

    Sorry for the typing dislexia… I do not write with
    those problems accept when I’m hunting and pecking quickly, they creep in like sin, and overtake me!
    My Spellchecker by “design” could be a savior, but never a Saviour!

  39. poohpity says:

    OK!! Peg.

  40. poohpity says:

    oneg2dblu, I think we pay attention to the content rather than spelling or other flaws that appear every now and then. It is not really that important as long as you get your thought across.

  41. phpatato says:

    ……”One book approaches the problem from the side of exhausted, worn out women who sense that the church is a men’s club where women’s hearts are neither listened to or understood. The other side sees the church as a ladies’ club that is dominated and run by women.”

    I would like to touch on what my thoughts are to the last sentence. I believe there is a word missing in that sentence and would word it as this: The other side sees the church as a ladies’ club that is dominated and run by domineering women.

    It has been my experience to see that church is a ladies’ club, and heaven forbid if you are a woman and find yourself on the outside of that club. I know of women who have gotten insanely upset by someone else sitting in the pew that they feel they “own”. Off to the pastor to get assurances that things like that won’t and can’t happen again. Women with great powers of “persuasion” who get their way in chosing who will be the organist and who will be the pianist solely on the fact that their choice for organist happens to sit in their once-weekly knitting circle even though the talent between the two is starkly evident. Women who pressure the pastor into allowing their little Johnnys’ rock band to take over the music on Sunday mornings. Yup, in my experience, church is a ladies’ club. The pastor and deacons would know no peace until they give in to whatever conceived notion these women think up at their next “get together”. For it is a wise man who knows that a happy life is a happy “woman”?!

    I love the picture on David Murrow’s book. It sums it all up quite nicely…services geared to the wishes of the women of the ladies’ group.

    As I see it anyway.


    Light snow here today. There is a white covering over the grass.

  42. oneg2dblu says:

    poohpity… we probably won’t know the answer to that
    one, other than trusting that God will bring justice to All Things in His timing. “With man it is impossible, but with God…” After all, “fairness” is just another word, and is defined differently by each one who encounters it! Just like, “Bad doctrine, does not produce good religion, where true godliness can produce
    a more appropriate result. gary

  43. phpatato says:


    Please know that I have Julie in my prayers.

  44. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Hi Della,

    At one time, in this country at least, it was impossible for a man to show his feelings. But one thing this so called “new age” as brought about is the liberation of men to be themselves in whatever form that may take.
    While, as a christian, we are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds and do not conform to this world, we have also been set free and we walk in the light of God. So, if anyone, both male and female, should be free to Love, show Joy and ware their feelings on their sleeves it is us.
    We have nothing to hide from each other or God.
    Let us all embrace our differences and support each other in Love.


  45. oneg2dblu says:

    Anyone know what a seared conscience is? Could it be, how self-pride “once fed,” becomes undaunted, and self rules? For without rules, self becomes unconscious to right and wrong, unseeing! Or only seeing itself as being right, regardless of the rules! How liberating!!
    What then rules the seared conscience? Certainly not God, for God has set in writing, “IT IS WRITTEN,”
    some very, very, important rules to be Obeyed at all cost,even death on a cross. That alone, should bear one’s conscience, for it “is to be protected” at all cost! God’s Words?

  46. poohpity says:

    Bob, that is so true that we have nothing to hide from God. The real truth is that we do not have nothing to hide from God period because obviously human beings have prejudices, condemnations, judgments and criticisms. We have to be very careful who we share our inner most thoughts, desires and feelings with because the person you share with may not be a safe place to be truly intimate. They may not truly understand the level ground we all stand on at the foot of the Cross and may share their own opinions not who God says we are.

  47. SFDBWV says:

    Peg, We are lifting Julie and her family up in prayer here in our families prayers….

    I had scarlet fever when I was a youngster, I was introduced to moanings and groanings at that point in my life, but didn’t know the meaning of it until much later in my life. it left me with a lifelong immunity to sore throats.

    So many hurting people so many broken hearts, I do pray for our Lord to have mercy on us all, and come quickly.


  48. davids says:

    “methinks that too much reading can sometimes create too much confusion…” – Steve

    I could take any possible difference that exists in Christ’s church: male vs. female, young vs. old, traditional vs. modern, conservative vs. liberal, dispensationalist, evangelist, etc, etc.

    Then I could easily go around and interview members of congregations that feel that their point of view is under-represented. Surely, there are some pastors that overly emphasize one aspect of the message, but so what?

    I just don’t understand those that try to use a crevice to try to create a crack in the Church. I suspect that they do it more for their gain than for the benefit of the God’s people.

    Peg, I’ve offered a prayer for Julie.

  49. Charis says:


    I’m looking forward to hearing your perspective.

    My only comment so far is that you left out children. Grown up men and women can learn a great deal from children about the humble, un-self-conscious Spirit which pleases God.

    Jesus said, ”Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.” Luke 18:17

  50. Regina says:

    Good Evening All

    Off topic here…
    Want to share a thought for today with you: “Let peace be your umpire today [and tomorrow :)]. Know that your decision is “in” when you have peace, and “out” when you don’t.”

    Col. 3:15, NIV
    Let the *peace* of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

    Mart, I love the picture of the beautiful bird feeding from a bird feeder(?), and, I forgot to mention yesterday, both of the books sound very interesting. Think it’s very challenging to read two books at the same time though. I tried to do it awhile back and couldn’t. I ended up reading one more than the other.

  51. oneg2dblu says:

    Male or Female should not matter with this advice…Just be yourself? That is a great motive for changing nothing! Does that theology really help make us more Christ-like? Or does that no longer apply,to us Modern day sensitive,loving, Christians, who’s first “required command” was to, “Come as you are, and then Repent?”
    It seems to me that the Bible is riff with prejudices, condemnation,judgments, and criticisms, TO WARN US,
    not only about mankind’s ungodly living, but God’s view of behaviors that HE finds detestable!
    I wonder why, when these things are repeated, or shared to enlighten common man, those very same elements become somehow,”only used by the insensitive!”
    Where they become legalistic, bigoted views, that only enrage those who fail to understand, “WHY,” they are there!
    I’m sure God didn’t intend to hurt our felings, or did He? Our feelings that run contrary to the Word of God
    must only apply those who are feeling saved, and without condemnation in Christ Jesus. Just as wrong theology can not produce Right Living, I don’t believe that living a destable lifestyle, as defined by God’s
    Word, is also living in Christ Jesus. Because, Christ is Light, and there is no darkness found when you are walking in the Light. Perhaps the “seared conscience,” is really the bowl that one places over that light, to be able to live in the “desired darkness” of those who feel they have right, to be wrong! Are they really in Christ Jesus? It also seems that rather than hurt their feelings, they should be able to live, how they want,when they want, wherever they want, for as long as they want, and they answer to no one who quotes, with hurt filled words like these, “Repent and turn away from your sin!” How rude is that? I think it is the most loving word one can share, with complete honesty! “Repent and turn form your sin!” becuase, “God loves you, and so do I!” Gary

  52. pegramsdell says:

    I saw Julie last night. She looks good, she was laughing and playing. She has a rash, and some awesome bandages. pink with hearts….oh man. She is eating and drinking and no iv anymore. Thank You Jesus!

    I appreciate all the prayers lifted for her. Thank you all so much. Be blessed and prosper in The Lord my friends.

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