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What are God’s Secrets?

Photo By: Srininivasa Sharma

A few mornings ago, as we were thinking together about the question “What is God Hiding?”, I woke with a song running through my mind, over and over. What seemed strange to me is that it was a hymn that I have not thought about or sung for years. It was also  a hymn that out of sheer familiarity, (and maybe its roller rink sound), I would not have chosen to sing again.

But this time, even though the tune brought back bad memories, the words were  captivating. Not sure that I had all the lyrics right, I got on the internet and found a version of the hymn (by the group Casting Crowns) that I found deeply stirring.

As the words and music continued to cycle through me, again and again, I began thinking about some of the things we had recently agreed that God is hiding either from us or for us. But now I was thinking about those unknowns not just with my mind, but with my heart. The words that were giving me new perspective were the old…

Living he loved me… Dying he saved me… Buried he carried… My sins far away.

Rising he justified… Freely forever… One day he’s coming,

Oh glorious day…

Those last words (and the name of the hymn) Oh Glorious Day suddenly seemed to bring a new awareness to what we had been talking about.

Yes, God hides our sin (without failing to expose, confront, and deal  with the issues of justice and mercy that our wrongs require.)

Yes, to teach us to trust him, and because our minds cannot begin to fathom the infinite and eternal ways in which God is at work within our best and worst days, working for the good of those who love him, he keeps most of that to himself (Deut 29:29); (Rom 11:33-36).

Yes, we could go on trying to imagine the content of secrets the Apostle Paul alludes to after having a vision of paradise, and after hearing things mortals are not allowed to repeat (2Cor 12:3-4).

And in the middle of all of the mystery that God is hiding, I’m guessing that many of us find ourselves somewhere in between being like our first parents who wondered if God was holding out on them (Gen 3:5)– and the better assurance that God’s “cover-ups” are nothing like our scandals.

There’s something about the lyrics of Glorious Day, especially as sung by Casting Crowns, that reassures me at a surprisingly deep level. When we begin to combine all that we know we don’t know… with what we do know about the suffering of Christ for us… we have what we need to know about the secrets of God. Whatever they are, they conceal  a love and a goodness of our Creator that are infinitely and eternally better than anything we could ever ask or think.

Think of the precedent we have for such an assurance. For thousands of years this God required his people to offer awful, ugly, sacrifices. In all that time he never let them know that, on a chosen day, the Creator of untold billions of galaxies would– in ways so far beyond our understanding–become the Lamb of God… who takes away the sin of the world!

And could it be that one way we know that we are beginning to understand the wonder.. is that we find music… rising in our hearts…

PS Why the picture of the baby monkey clinging so tightly to its mother? Because often when I sense being in the presence of a God who is so much more personal and wonderful than I ever imagined, I think of the words, “Surely I am more stupid than any man, And do not have the understanding of a man.  I neither learned wisdom Nor have knowledge of the Holy One (Prov 30:2-3).

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69 Responses to “What are God’s Secrets?”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Last evening I enjoyed watching NOVA on PBS titled “The Fabric of the Cosmos”, for any of you that enjoy science and can relate it to a Creator you may enjoy it as well.

    The concept is that the nothing of space is actually something and that all of what we think of as empty is actually filled with many smaller and smaller “Things” that make up the “fabric” of space.

    The program goes on to show how space and time are interwoven and affect each other and that light is a basic and constant throughout both.

    What is rather thought provoking is the concept that what we all take as being “real” “solid “ and “permanent” is actually all an illusion.

    I wonder if the thought process that occurs in our minds has a substance, since it can be detected by a simple EEG test.

    I also wonder if it were possible for our science to detect the thought process of God, and if it would look something like the cosmos, vast, endless, powerful, filled with *stuff* we strain to identify or understand.

    Perhaps it is best to be simple and like the little baby monkey Mart has pictured; just be content to hide our thoughts and fears in the embrace of our ultimate parent and be ignorantly happy.


  2. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… I hope your set was plugged in, because it sounds like a version of the Twilight Zone. Were everything we see and know and feel as solid, is really all an illusion? That is a stretch of some type of fabric I do not possess. But if Nova wants to tell us the bible we hold in our hands, with the greatest story ever written is an illusion, I do not believe that science of man, over the book in my hand, or story of God, which now possess the illusion of my heart. :)

  3. SFDBWV says:

    Mart I also wanted to thank you for the song “Oh Glorious Day” as sung by “Casting Crowns”. I always enjoy good poetry put to a good melody.


  4. SFDBWV says:

    Gary, perhaps in the future you may wait and understand the subject or the information given in my thoughts before you make a comment.

    A little bit of advice my friend, think before you speak.


  5. oneg2dblu says:

    Mart … I had this thought today after reading the OJD.
    I thought about the number of prisioners exchanged for Shalit, finding it was a much smaller number than all the Lambs the Jews had sacrificed for their sin, before God on the Cross said, “It is Finished!”
    God has hidden that ugly number from us, he has hidden all that blood from us, He has hidden all that death of those innocent lambs before His Son, from us.
    We were in Exodus last night, when it occurred to me that every one of those who went through that Exodus
    were not saved for eternity, but are dead. Dead to salvation, which is freely given to all who now ask to be filled with Christ. He still hides that from the Jewish people today. But, because He has blinded them, and because He is the God of second chances, He will appear again before them, to give them a second chance, but that is at the End of the Tribulation, they must endure first.
    He hides from us the *justice* of why they must suffer more for their beliefs, and why we get to be raised in the Rapture, avoiding the Tribulation for ours.
    It seems to me, that It is not finished for the Jew!
    He hides from us, how much more blood will be shed until that second chance for them occurs.
    He hides the prayer language of the Holy Spirit that groans for us and prays with sounds we do not know.
    I Praise our God for all He hides from us! Gary

  6. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends!

    For some reason, I am “minded” of what the Irish call “the thin places.” I am not convinced these are locations, so much as states of profound worship and adoration of God in Christ, by the anointing of the Holy Spirit. In this place, we come before God and hear God’s voice.

    The prophet Daniel experienced such an event. Though the prophet was weakened and prostrated by the appearance of a messenger of God, he was encouraged and strengthened to stand up before the vision. He could not stand for long, as God spoke the truth to him. There is a long revelation of events to come (Daniel 10-12).

    At last, Daniel writes, “Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, ‘My Lord, what shall be the end of these things?’ And he said, ‘Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end…But, you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of days.” (Daniel 12:8-13)
    Daniel is a saint scoured out by many trials and who bears an immense weight of glory. Yet, there were things in the heart of God he could not comprehend.

    My hope in this is that perhaps in New Jerusalem I will fellowship with Daniel, Lord willing, and even I will see with unveiled eyes. (2 Corinthians 3:18)


  7. oneg2dblu says:

    What God has not hidden from us,is that Christ is Our Salvation, and for that unvailing event, will we never stop loving Him? Just to think that some day we all will be casting crowns! Be blessed, Gary

  8. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… sorry i infused some sardonic wit in my thoughts to you. I meant no harm, and will not intrude on your sensitivities again. I’ll try to hold my wretched tongue. :(

  9. oneg2dblu says:

    With God’s help, maybe the next 40 days will prove it to be so… Gary

  10. bratimus says:

    When talking about God’s secrets, it is actually a hard subject to speak of.

    You will be asked if your writing and epesode of the Twilight Zone or the Outer limits.

    Steve metioned if science coould delected the thought process of God.

    and Gray asked if he was watching the twight zone.

    I would say that if God willed it that mans science could detect His Thoughts would we even know what we are looking for or understand it. For all we know we have already detected it just don’t know what it is.

    God’s secrets revealed in Daniel and Revelation, people have different opinions for these.

  11. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart!

    You wrote:

    “Yes, we could go on trying to imagine the content of secrets the Apostle Paul alludes to after having a vision of paradise, and after hearing things mortals are not allowed to repeat (2Cor 12:3-4).”

    It seems to me, the way forward is neither to stick our heads in the clouds, nor to stick our heads in the sand. The Lord Jesus Christ has given us such beautiful promises and assurances — he commands us to go forward giving witness to the world (the kosmos?) according to the gifts he has planted in each of us!

    Praise is a discipline and a witness (Ephesians 3:20-21)! Maru

  12. florida7sun says:

    Mart, I also love “Glorious Day.” However, I have no desire to pry into the secrets of God. I love Him for the Gift of His Son and what He has revealed to me through the teaching of the Holy Spirit. His Word and revelation are more than sufficient.

    He speaks to us individually.

    If My Father desired me to know the fullness of His Glory, He would have told me. Last evening, in my study, it dawned on me how man continually tries to comprehend the mind of God. It started in the Garden of Eden when Eve stole an apple off of God’s property upon which was planted the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God’s property is precious. We are cautioned not to trespass and trample on holy ground.

    My Lord grants me just enough of His Word daily to sustain me in living an abundant life. If I wander off into seeking all that glitters on the horizon, I invite false teaching; much like that proffered by the world’s renown scholars offering up hollow and deceptive philosophies.

    “One day He’s coming, Oh Glorious Day.”

    Considering the length of eternity in His Presence, I know He will reveal all that is good in due course.

    I value His Sovereignty. He is trustworthy. For now, His Flesh and His Blood are more than sufficient. I have no need to seek out and bite into shiny apples. His Spirit leads us into all Truth.

    Jesus loves me. He created me. He knows what is best for me. He always delivers at just the right time.

  13. isaiah43123 says:

    “…our minds cannot begin to fathom the infinite and eternal ways in which God is at work within our best and worst days, working for the good of those who love him…” In this lies the trust factor, trusting Him to do what is best for us, with or without an explanation.

  14. SFDBWV says:

    Please forgive me, but I am always amazed at the difference between how and what women think and men. Don’t misunderstand me I actually think that these thoughts are best balanced out when combined rather than presented separately.

    The mechanics of logic and abruptness that men often bring to mind are always softened by the emotions and tenderness that women bring.

    Most men rarely use the term love very often, they even are reluctant to tell their wives that they love them, some even their children rarely hear that daddy loves them.

    Men may see the great commission as a duty that needs to be obeyed while women may see it as an extension of their love for Christ to do as He has ask.

    In the beginning God took a part of Adam from him and from it produced Eve, I often wonder if this “rib” taken from Adam is the softer side of mankind and that before this creation Adam was complete in being balanced by both the feminine and masculine nature of mankind.

    It also makes me wonder if this reconnection is made complete again when men and women marry in the pure sense God intends.

    Whereas I too see the book of Daniel as being filled with mysterious events extraordinary and supernatural encounters, I readily accept them as in my heart I know them to be true.

    Yet I also understand that before the fall of Adam and Eve that Adam was not content and did not know why. Because the answer to what was missing in his life was yet to be revealed to him.

    Why are we not content to be where God has placed us, to understand enough to be happy and simply enjoy what we have and know? Is it possible that hidden in Christ’s promises and God’s plans are the answers to our discontent and the fulfillment of us all?


  15. poohpity says:

    Wow Mart, I wished I had listened to that song before I read some of the comments. Some of them really made me chuckle.

    Knowing that our sins are hidden from God by what Jesus did and we are justified freely really would prompt anyone to carry that message to others not because we were told to do it but to have others share in that magnificent frame of mind to experience a love that is far beyond anything we could ever imagine.

    I was reading this morning in John and was reminded that after the Holy Spirit came they REALIZED (John 12:16) that God’s Glory was realized and will be realized again (John 12:27-28).

  16. poohpity says:

    That Glorious Day was when Gal 3:27-29 came into being.

  17. bearpair says:

    So good, Mart! Thanks for sharing these uplifting & “thoughtful” promptings… Thanks also for the direction to CC’s “Glorious Day”… they do an excellent job with this great old Gospel hymn. Terry & Pat, Everett,WA

  18. satscout says:

    I wasn’t going to read the full version – overloaded inbox ya know – but then you went and referenced “Glorious Day” and I couldn’t help myself. :-) I agree, the hymnal version has this… “roller rink” feel to it that makes a big turnoff for some good lyrics. We sing the CC version at church.

    Regarding what Steve said waaaay at the top about the fabric of apace-time – I haven’t the faintest idea what Nova or anyone else had to say about the topic, but I think what most folks, especially Christians, fail to remember is that space and time are created entities. What we know as “space” and “time” will eventually cease to exist when God makes all things new. As a result, we who are bound by, limited to, and subject to time have a forced limitation on our comprehension. We can speculate somewhat as to the mind of God based on the revealed Word he has given us, but we can’t ever really get out of the constraints “time” has placed on us.

    In other words… what we “see” and “touch” really IS an illusion – but it’s one God put in place to protect us because we who are finite and mortal can’t comprehend the enormity of what God is.

  19. satscout says:

    yikes, typo, sorry! I tried to say “the revealed Word He has given us” but it came out in lowercase…

  20. remarutho says:

    Hello Satscout —

    I agree that we cannot escape the constraints of time — even the time that will end by divine decree.

    You wrote:

    “…I think what most folks, especially Christians, fail to remember is that space and time are created entities. What we know as “space” and “time” will eventually cease to exist when God makes all things new. As a result, we who are bound by, limited to, and subject to time have a forced limitation on our comprehension. We can speculate somewhat as to the mind of God based on the revealed Word he has given us, but we can’t ever really get out of the constraints “time” has placed on us.

    In other words… what we “see” and “touch” really IS an illusion – but it’s one God put in place to protect us because we who are finite and mortal can’t comprehend the enormity of what God is.”

    As to matters of true justice, I must depart from your reasoning. The moral position that perceived phenomena are “illusion” makes the cause of justice and moral imperative just a board game, Satscout. I cannot go there.

    It is not “only a paper moon hanging over a cardboard sea,” as the old song claims.

    Our God is the ground of absolute reality — and our God calls for justice: “Is this not the fast I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, and that you bring to your house the poor who are cast our; when you see the naked, that you cover him, and not hide yourself from your own flesh?

    Then your light shall break forth like the morning. Your healing shall spring forth speedily, and your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard. Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; You shall cry and he will say, ‘Here I am.'” (Isaiah 58:6-9)

    God is holy and eternal. We, created in God’s image, are called to aspire to God’s goodness — to be like God through Christ. Otherwise, we are only a herd of brute creatures.

    Perhaps I have misunderstood your meaning.

    Yours in Christ,

  21. oneg2dblu says:

    Everyone has an opinion…How grand a thought it is that everything we experience today as the solid and living world in time around us, is just an illusion. That makes all Creation an illusion. Good luck selling that concept to God at the Great White Throne of Judgement. Of course, that doesn’t really exist either, once we all, including God, embrace the grand illusion of this Illusion. Isn’t it funny how just one thought from Satan, can move a world of people away from God’s reality?
    Just how lost are we going to allow Satan to bring us to bear? Open the door of doubt, and you suffer at your own free will.
    Loving the Lord your God with all your Heart, all your your Mind, and all your Soul, doesn’t leave much room for thoughts of illusion now does it? Or does it?
    What were we supposed to be thinking about instead of this great illusion, Oh Yeah… Proverbs 30: 2-3!
    “You all have a Glorious Day.” Gary

  22. BruceC says:


    Methinks you misunderstood Steve and his reference to an illusion. What he meant is that what we refer to as solid is actually an illusion in that it is just made up of molecules that happen to be closer together than in others. Such as the three states of H20. Ice, water, and vapor. In Missler’s series on creation he explains this. Quantum physicists have found evidence for up to ten or more dimensions and that all information on the makeup of things is almost digital information we see in much of technology. And there are spaces between that information. This does not draw me from God but makes me stand in even more awe of Him!!!! The more they look the more they are astounded. Hopefully many will realize that only an all powerful and loving God could do this. So Steve didn’t mean it wasn’t real; just that it isn’t exactly as how we see it. Which doesn’t mean it is actually an illusion.

    God Bless
    Soli Deo Gloria!

  23. SFDBWV says:

    Mart has ask us to consider “What are God’s Secrets” I have attempted to lay out mysteries that mankind attempts to answer. The deepest questions about our existence in an attempt to understand how everything that is can be.

    I can think of no more obvious answer to Mart’s question that that.

    The tree in the garden did not awaken mankind to knowledge but the knowledge of good and evil.

    Can you understand and explain how God created everything that exists from nothing more that His will? When I ask explain, I do mean a real solid explanation not philosophy.

    What are God’s secrets? They are every where around us. Can any of you explain how a tree or a blade of grass lives and grows without a brain, or why water doesn’t act like any other liquid?

    Can any explain what force ( in real solid terms) holds the earth in orbit around the sun or why all the matter we are all made of doesn’t just fly apart instead of existing as the building blocks of life?

    A great devout Christian mathematician named Sir Isaac Newton ask these kinds of questions, and found answers he could explain in math, but only because he searched out clues and direction from scripture and from the source of all information, God.

    How many of you are still awaiting answers to your prayers? Could it be that the answer is still a secret of God’s?

    We can either have an intelligent conversation about Marts question or we can play church.

    What is sad is that of all said by me, the only thing that struck a nerve was the word “Illusion”; without understanding its place in the subject or that it in no way is an affront to God, that simple word attacked as if not allowed to be used.

    It was narrow minded church people who burned people to death on a steak and cheered their agony, because they dared to ask questions.

    Sadly I see some church people haven’t learned anything about Christ in over 2,000 years.


  24. SFDBWV says:

    Bless you Bruce, and thank you.


  25. florida7sun says:

    Good morning, Mart and BTA friends.

    Max Lucado’s post blessed me this morning. The nature of God is simple and yet so profound. In Jesus we see Our Father. Yet in our earthly vision we see only a fraction of His Glory and Majesty. Our viewed is colored by our circumstances… much like viewing the colors of a rainbow in space and time. However, from Our Father’s perspective He sees us cleansed in the pure white light of His Son. The full spectrum of the rainbow’s colors produce the brillance of light in its purest form.

    When we embrace the Lord Jesus and pray that we see through His eyes, our understanding becomes brighter and clearer — not perfected — but greater understanding of Truth is revealed through His Word… and its practical application to our daily living.

    If I am permitted here is what Max shared this morning:

    “God’s thoughts are not our thoughts — we aren’t even in the same neighborhood.

    Psalm 92:5 sets the standard. “Lord, you have done such great things. How deep are your thoughts.”

    “When we’re thinking, Preserve the body; God’s thinking, Save the soul. We dream of a pay raise. He dreams of raising the dead. We avoid pain and seek peace. God uses pain to bring peace. “I’m going to live before I die,” we resolve. “Die, so you can live,” he instructs. We love what rusts. He loves what endures. We rejoice at our successes. He rejoices at our confessions. We show our children the Nike star with the million-dollar smile and say, “Be like him.” God points to the crucified carpenter with bloody lips and a torn side and says, “Be like Christ.”

    “Thinking God’s thoughts.”

    Blessed day to all. Love, Ray

  26. bratimus says:

    With Isaac Newton’s work into the law of gravity and the laws of physics

    I can’t help see the irony of how another tree and fruit got man bound by another set of laws to explian the existance of man, as far as the laws of physic’s are concerned.

    Faith says God created us because God loves, that should be enough.

    And God come and walking with man in Christ, dying and rising again. Can physics and science explain this, so maybe science and physics are the illusions.

    Man is only bound by science and physics, God isn’t!

    Until we understand this it could be hard to have a intelligent discussion of the secerets of God.

  27. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Steve —

    You wrote:

    “It was narrow minded church people who burned people to death on a steak and cheered their agony, because they dared to ask questions.

    Sadly I see some church people haven’t learned anything about Christ in over 2,000 years.”

    Such knee-jerk reactions as burning fellow believers at the stake by benighted church folk, have very little to do with true justice — as the prophet Isaiah brings to bear in the Word from God — again, (Isaiah 58:6-9)

    Our system of justice, such as it is, derives from the decalogue and the demise of the arbitrary “divine right of kings.” If we begin to say that evidentiary exploration and findings are illusion, we have closed even further the path to any semblance of justice among human beings.

    Jesus said, “If you abide in my word, you are my disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:31-32)

    It is possible to know the truth, both of Newtonian and cosmic physics.

    Yours in Christ,

  28. Bessie says:

    First, I just love the lyrics to “Glorious Day.” I had not heard that hymn for quite some time but listening to it this morning touched me very deeply. I find it odd that you chose the question “What are God’s Secrets?” Now do you really think that He is going to reveal them to us if they are in fact His secrets? :-) I believe that God reveals to us what He wants us to know when He wants us to know it. There are many questions that I would love to have the answer to … things that my human mind cannot grasp or understand. Things that are mysteries. But I have come to the conclusion that I need to trust that God who is all powerful, all knowing, sovereign, etc. has everything under control. Does He have secrets? Absolutely. But I would not characterize them as secrets. I would characterize them as things that our finite minds were not created to comprehend — neither are they necessary for us to accomplish the purpose for which we were created.

  29. remarutho says:

    May I urge you in love, ladies and gentlemen, to take your disputation one measured step at a time!

    If we flee from injustice; will we find justice where we land? For now, we abide on one planet, among 7 billion souls of divine worth. :-) Maru

  30. SFDBWV says:

    Maru, to my understanding, your comments to me are at best confusing and have nothing to do with the subject of the secrets of God nor of my comments.

    However I am certain they are clear to you, so please explain to me how it is that my use of the word illusion gave you and Gary the just position to burn me at the stake for its use in my comments.


  31. remarutho says:

    Steve —

    I believe “illusion” was reached in the discussion. You, my brother in Christ, took us all the way to “burning at the stake.” The validity and viability of human sensory perception must stand as we judge in the world.

    I will grant that justice — as the righteousness of our God — is not always arrived at in the marketplace, nor in the courts of law.

    Deep breath, count to ten…your integrity is intact. All is well.


  32. florida7sun says:

    On my calender this morning is the joy of singing together to the Lord, praising the beauty of His Holiness: 2 Chronicles 20:21

    Yesterday 2 Peter 1:5-7 was referenced:

    “For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.”

    Knowledge of the Word is important. As we add goodness, self-control, perseverance, godliness, mutual affection and love for one another… we may participate in “the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.”

    Let us sing together and praise the beauty of His Holiness.

  33. poohpity says:

    I was reminded this morning after reading the comments of what Paul wrote to the church in Colosse, Col 2:8-10; “Don’t let others spoil your faith and joy with their philosophies, their wrong and shallow answers built on men’s thoughts and ideas, instead of on what Christ has said.” So let us treat each other the way we would like to be treated to bring Glory to God and not our finite understanding of things we do not know.

  34. poohpity says:

    Even tho I am a women and as one has said I do not use logic just emotion and tenderness I would like to assert that “that all of what we think of as empty is actually filled with many smaller and smaller “Things” that make up the “fabric” of space” as Steve said, only look that way from this distance. When in reality if we were closer to those things in space we would see that they are in fact larger than anything we can imagine. Just like the sun seems small but when placed close to the earth the earth is but a speak as are the rest of the planets when placed next to each for comparison.

    Most science is based on theories which are based on assumptions to predict, analyze or explain what someone does not fully understand. It is also abstract reasoning or speculation so why not go on the things we do know for sure. The miracles that Jesus did were what He used to convince the disciples of John the Baptist that He was in fact the Messiah. Matthew 11:4-6. John TB also understood that his own knowledge was so limited (John 3:31) which if any of us really could get a hold of that concept we would be so quick to grab hold of our limitation and fully understand the we do not have a clue. I still do not fully comprehend God or else I would turn more things over to Him and remain on bended knee in worship that I am allowed to even call God my Father.

    We seem to be so busy trying to get others to see how smart or spirit filled we are that we really do not understand we are but a speak in this universe and the world does not revolve around us.

  35. oneg2dblu says:

    Wow, are we all being human or what? What big toes we have when someone else steps out of line. I am sorry for all the extra comments my brain slip has caused.
    Can we move on now, as the smoke of this burning stake is begining to choke me. :(
    I did really enjoy the comment about God telling us his secrets,if so, how could they be secrets.
    That was Brilliant at best… :)
    Here’s a secret about God’s Love, if we had it, we would show everyone Grace they do not deserve, and then, give them the freewill to do what they want with it! But, the love we now possess unfortunately has limitations, and is conditional. That is no secret to me, but how God does it is! Just being human,Gary

  36. davids says:


    I found your comment to be quite thought-provoking and on-topic. It is true that most of what we perceive around us to be solid matter is in fact composed of empty space. It is truly marvelous that the unseen part reality is so beautiful.

    In the Word, and especially in the New Testament, we are told of things that are unseen, of a spiritual realm that exists around us. In this way too, what we see is an illusion, since it does not include all of the true reality. However, this illusory aspect does not take away from the moral reality of our existence, as I am certain you never meant.

    I understand that not all Christians are drawn to the beauties of science, as others are not drawn to the beauty of a concerto. But it is too bad that some feel that the investigation of such things is a distraction, or that science is merely “theories”. Many people were persecuted by church people who were afraid that science was an attack on the faith.

    Blessed be the God that reveals himself to us in many ways.

  37. poohpity says:

    davids, I do not believe I said that science is just merely “theories”. I believe God gave us all kinds of things to be fascinated with, to dig deeper into, that is why we have minds and curiosity. We all have special gifts to benefit the kingdom of God by serving humanity. The problems come when they become self serving and not God honoring. Truth at times gets lost in the pursuit of knowledge without keeping a balance and understanding that there are some things we just will never understand. It is OK to not know everything and just trust that it is all in the care of God. :-)

  38. SFDBWV says:

    Thank you Davids; I seen a good history of Michelangelo some time back. It was tragic and sad that he burned so many of his original drawings and ideas as he came under attack from church leaders who went so far as to dig up some of his dead friends corpses burn their remains and curse them into hell.

    A group of his associates were hunted down and burned alive and excommunicated from the faith as well. Though he escaped such a death he did not want to endure the idea his remains would be unearthed burned and his soul cast into hell because church leaders seen something they did not like or thought hidden in his art. So he destroyed thousands of drawings and paintings he had done.

    I see that nothing has changed about such church people, they stand too ready to assassinate any or all that don’t comply to their rules of understanding.

    When I think about the difference between God and man, I think about how God is ready and willing to forgive and forget, while mankind is always looking for ways to do the opposite.

    What secret is God hiding from us? How would we know if it is a secret? The only way to find out is search for answers and ask of God.


  39. oneg2dblu says:

    I believe taking everything so personal and even thinking one is under attack, is really just being human and acting under the nature that suits YOU.
    Letting go and forgiving others, is more of the spiritual nature which seems hidden in the spaces of the solid humanism we all prefere to suffer.
    Agape Love, we do not possess when our humaness is under attack, but the conditional love that we do possess, becomes hidden in our unforgiveness?
    Just a thought, Gary

  40. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Mart – you wrote: “Think of the precedent we have for such an assurance. For thousands of years this God required his people to offer awful, ugly, sacrifices. In all that time he never let them know that, on a chosen day, the Creator of untold billions of galaxies would– in ways so far beyond our understanding–become the Lamb of God… who takes away the sin of the world!”

    That is really something to think about! It makes me think that the secrets God has now, the things which are going to happen that we don’t know about, are so wonderfully glorious, so GOOD.

    I have heard that the reason Jewish people don’t offer sacrifices now is because they can’t build the temple on the site where it “should be.” But if they get the land back, they will rebuild the temple. Will they once again start offering sacrifices?

  41. oneg2dblu says:

    Today’s passage in the ODB shows us how hidden the conditional aspect of being in Love with Christ really is. Just because Grace given to us by God is His Unconditional Love, it does not mean being His and being in His Spirit, is not conditional.
    Unfortunately, many churches hide that fact between the spaces of their reality, as they teach us the easy road instead of showing us that The Way is very conditional and a tough road at best to stay on, and in our nature, not really possible.
    Sceince is wonderful, but it is a well trodden road, that does not show us the road to His Way. It shows us only the way we discover through our intelligence, which sometimes according to the Word of God, get’s in our way as well. His simplicity is foolishness and is rendered an illusion not found through science that deals with the world we think can see through well founded theories, of our scientific observations and our calculations of our soon to be discovered illusions.

  42. remarutho says:

    Hello Tracey –
    I have heard of ultra-conservative, ultra-Zionist Jewish sects who plan to rebuild the temple and reinstitute animal sacrifice in Jerusalem. I believe these folks are not the majority at this time. The wonder is that there remains a presence in Israel/Palestine burning with hope in Jesus Christ!

    Mart –
    You wrote:
    “And could it be that one way we know that we are beginning to understand the wonder.. is that we find music… rising in our hearts…”

    I believe that in the great churning Sargasso of culture and psychology, there are so many other songs chiming in that we must turn intentionally to the music of Glorious Day – Be Thou My Vision – Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing…

    The facts of the gospel story – the truth of Christ’s incarnation – impart a thrillingly personal and a gloriously cosmic joy to our lives, in the face of what Hindus call “maya.”


  43. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve, Good Morning. If *church people* had only been given that inner peace that Christ Followers alone have,they perhaps would not go digging where they don’t really belong, which causes them a burning inside themselves, and on their own created stakes.
    It seems that the artist you have depicted here, for the showing of how unchanged the stake burning church people are, did not seem to possess this inner peace of Christ for himself either. He lived under the illusion of being attacked, about being dug up, and being burnred at the stake. Which you say, really did not happen… How much of himself he actually destroyed
    through this illusion, is the real tragedy of all mankind who allow such illusions to overtake them.
    Satan seems to fill all the voids of those who seek elsewhere than Christ. Have a Glorious Day my brother, in Christ, as you live in the Peace that Surpasses even our illusions. Gary

  44. InHisHands says:

    Thank you for sharing that song – I like this rendition. I learned it at church camp a very long time ago and it has been a blessing to my heart whenever I hear it.

    There doesn’t seem to me that there is anything about God hidden that we NEED to know. Seems He has displayed Himself thoroughly through His creation, His Son, and His Word. I pray that He is evident in me, so that others will see a glimpse of Him and want to know Him better.

    Just some thoughts.

  45. oneg2dblu says:

    I found a few passages in Peterson’s that I would like to share with you, as they express much of my thoughts as well…
    Colossians 2 “I want you to realize that I continue to work as hard as I know how for you, and also for the Christians over at Laodicea. Not many of you have met me facs-to-face, but that doesn’t make any difference. Know that I’m on your side, right along side of you. You’re not in this alone.
    I want you woven into the tapestry of love, in touch with everything there is to know of God. Then you will have minds confident and at rest, focussed on Christ,
    God’s great mystery.
    All the richest treasures of wisdom and knowledge are imbedded in that mystery! I’m telling you this because I don’t want anyone leading you off on some wild goose chase, after other so called mysteries, or “the Secret.”
    I’m a long way off, true, and you may never lay eyes on me, but blieeve me, I’m on your side, right beside you.
    I am delighted to hear of the careful and oderly ways you conduct your affairs, and impressed with the solid substance of your faith in Christ.
    My counsel for you is simple and straightforward: Just go ahead with what you’ve been given. You recieved Christ Jesus, the Master: now live him. Your deeply rooted in him. You’re well constructed upon him. You know you way around the faith. Now do what you’ve been taught. School’s out: quit studying that subject and start living it! And let your living spill over into thanksgiving.
    Watch out for people who try to dazzel you with big words and intellectual double talk. They want to drag you off into endless arguments that never amount to anything. They spread their ideas through the empty traditions of human beings and empty superstitions of spirit beings. But that’s not the way of Christ. Everything of God gets expressed in him, so you can see and hear him clearly. You don’t need a telescope, a microscope, or a horoscope to realize the fullness of Christ, and the emptiness of the universe without him.” I wish I had said it that way, but I was being only human. Now I believe that God, through someone else is trying to help me say it a better way. Gary

  46. oneg2dblu says:

    If I only had a proof-reader! :)

  47. poohpity says:

    Gary, is that from “The Message”? You do have a proof reader, good look in the mirror. :-)

  48. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh… you are right about the mirror, if we want to see ourselves in all things, it is a good place to start. But, like you’ve shared before, it is not about us. Unless, of course we elect to place our delicate humanity in the way.
    Yes, directly from ‘The Message’ but with all my mistakes added for our proof-reading pleasure. :)
    I’ve tried to find your rather “gender specific” version you quoted, in Colossians 2:8-10, which in my7 searching, put me in the message as well, so thank you on that one. But, so far the many translations I have handy to me, have all not been so genderized. What translation did that quote come from?
    I am not trying to be offensive, just informed. Gary

  49. oneg2dblu says:

    Bruce… yes I got it all wrong. I trust in doing so, I pushed some buttons that made others see how easy it is to go to extremes with our illusions. I guess that is what Colossians 2:8-10 is saying as well.
    Have a Belssed Day my brother. Gary

  50. poohpity says:

    Gary the translation I used in quoting Col was the LT found in the Life Application Bible. I do not see where a gender was mentioned, which comment were you referring to, a little confused about that but no offense has been taken at all.

    The reason I mentioned the mirror about proof reading is if we look at ourselves and our motives behind the things we write it will be seen in the words we use and our responses to others. We can easily see our prejudges, resentments, anger, attitudes and ego or bringing light to scripture, desire to help another grow and bring Glory to God by looking over what we write before we submit the comment. Not that we will ever be perfect or not be misunderstood but most of the time if our heart is right to begin with it will be easily seen in what we type out.

  51. Mart De Haan says:

    I hope you understand my purpose in raising the matter of what God has kept to himself. I fear making the mistake of our first parents, and want the following words to express my heart:

    Lord , my heart is not proud;
    my eyes are not haughty.
    I don’t concern myself with matters too great
    or too awesome for me to grasp. (Psalm 131:1 NLT)

    The intent of this post is to remind one another, that our God is infinitely better, and eternally more loving– than any of us can imagine.

  52. phpatato says:


    I like your thoughts. They echo mine!

    Love to ALL


  53. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh, thanks. I would love to get a Life Application for myself, perhaps it will be my next bible.
    I know my thoughts but can’t always type them out without interuption, and making mistakes, but even through my mis-spellings and gramatical problems, I believe the juxt of the message does get through. When I see others having similar typo’s and such, they do not bother the content for me.
    The intentions of the heart are not always pleasantly present in my words, but my heart is for God in all I attempt to express. I fail much in this, and trust the Lord will continue a good work in me.
    I have grown here, and wish to keep on growing in Him through this medium, and many others.
    I hope things will continue to find a place of peace for you in your situation at home as well. Gary

  54. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh, I tripped over the words, *men’s thoughts.* In your prior post you happened to mention something about being a woman. Also your having heard someone say, that you use emotion and tenderness, and not logic.
    So gender was on my mind as well. That’s all there was to it. However, I’m conditioned to see the word “Men’s” as a gender issue, and not specific to the entire human psyche. Perhaps because, I once was in a brand new drinking establishment at night, and some decorations hanging by the Women’s Room sign were actually covering the “Wo!” I walked in with vigor and intention, and left even more forcefully driven, after the screaming started!!
    So I’m a little more awakened to the power of the use of that word as being very genderized! An actual life application principle well learned! Gary

  55. poohpity says:

    Gary, I understand, my heart may not always come out in my typed words either but God does know our hearts and loves us anyway. Thank you for your hopes for me, as long as we stay close to Him, He will continue the work He started in us all. :-)

  56. remarutho says:

    Good Evening Mart and Friends —

    Mart, you wrote:
    “…our God is infinitely better, and eternally more loving– than any of us can imagine.”

    Thank you for reminding all the readers and participants in your blog that God’s love never ceases to burn, though we do not perceive his ways.

    Jesus said that the kingdom will be like ten bridesmaids with their lamps. (Matthew 25:1-13) Only he can save us from putting our light under a bushel — or letting it be snuffed out by inner neglect or outward trials. Only he can provide the oil we need to keep burning for him.

    I pray he continues to help us burn with steady, pure light — praising him as we watch. Amen.

  57. florida7sun says:

    Thank you Maru.

    His Grace and Peace empowers us to have Poise under Pressure.

    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” – 1 John 6:47

    Awaiting today’s sunrise and the Truth of His Word.

    Blessings, Ray

  58. remarutho says:

    Amen Ray —

    We all have an opportunity in this BTA forum to consider many facets — for God’s glory is a gem placed in our hands — through his Word enlivened by the breath of his nostril.

    NT Wright said once in a lecture, “Human beings are not ‘meat computers.'” If all our wondrous brain, synapse and emotional firings are not subject to fruitful “self-control” (Galatians 5:22-23) then, we are not held to account for any outcome.

    We are awaiting the Sonrise! :-) May the Lord richly bless you and yours today.


  59. poohpity says:

    Mart, it is truly hard for me to imagine God’s love and all that that really means. I do have His Word and as I try and walk in obedience the more I understand how great it truly is. It would humble anyone to understand how deep, how wide, how long and how full God’s love and faithfulness are towards us even those who seem to be so righteous are nothing compared to it.

  60. poohpity says:

    We can try and compare it to the love of a parent to a child or a spouse to a spouse but in reality there is nothing to compare it to for us to really understand what it is like because we are all trapped by our reasoning and logic which stops us from fully comprehending the magnitude of it.

  61. nezzar says:

    Sorry I’ve been gone so long, but I’m back.

    I was going to read all the comments, but there’s 60 of them.

    The topic of God’s secrets reminds me of a time when I was reading a rather advanced chess book. The author was explaining a particular move made by a grand master. All good chess moves are logical and have a reason, but no matter how much the author explained the move I just didn’t get it. I think that many of the things that God “keeps” from us are just things that we wouldn’t understand anyway. So to keep our finite minds from spinning in confusion God just says “Trust Me.”

  62. foreverblessed says:

    To comment on Michelangelo, he is a good example of Psalm 131:1 at the end of his age.
    5 years ago I went to an exhibition of his drawings, the ones which were used for the Sixtynes Chapel and many others, There I read that Michelangelo was uneasy at the end of his life, not because of the church pressure, but because he himself thought that he had viewed mankind, (painted the humans), from a point of view that was too prideful. In fact he was tortured in his own mind that his pridefulness would hinder him to go into heaven. He resented the fact that he had become rich in making art for the church as well. Thought that he should not have earned so much money.
    A poem he wrote before he died tells this story.

    His latest drawings of Christ are really touching, they are a bit unclear, maybe even a bit uncertain, but they touched my heart very deeply: here was a man who was hesitant to portray Christ in his suffering, as if he said in the way he was drawing: we do not even know the depth of what he did for us, so deep is His love for us.
    And if you compare that with his earlier drawings you can see, how sure he was, how he knew how big his genious was. The very prideful attitude he later in life was distressed about.

  63. foreverblessed says:

    Nezzar, good to hear from you again,

  64. poohpity says:

    Nezzar, glad to see you are safe and well. :-)

  65. poohpity says:

    How can we understand a love that is there when we are the enemies of the giver? Yet God does. It is one thing to love others that will return love, yet God loves those who never return that love. Would any of us give up our only child for the good of mankind even when that mankind refused to even acknowledge the One who created them? When we are harmed by someone either emotionally or physically can we return love? Yet God did and does. All I can say is, WOW!!

  66. nezzar says:


    I read your post where you said,

    “We seem to be so busy trying to get others to see how smart or spirit filled we are that we really do not understand we are but a speak in this universe and the world does not revolve around us.”

    I couldn’t agree with you more.

    I started back reading and now I regret it. It seems that since I’ve been gone people have grown thinner skin, and are out to prove their position even more. I understand now why someone would burn their drawings rather than face the judgment of the church. I’ve seen the judgmental attitude of the church stieffel all kinds of creativity from worship leaders and others who have no desire other than to please the Lord.

    Accusing the brotheren, or finding fault is the job of the devil, I don’t want to help him out so I’ll just stop here.

    By the way most of my Science classes have taught me something more about God’s creation and I am more in awe of him now than I was before I learned about His creation. Cellular Biology and Astro-Physics are two classes that have really given me a greater appreciation of Him and His greatness. Is it wrong for Christians to study Science, absolutly not! It only becomes wrong when you start to accept the philosophy and religion that comes with it.

  67. poohpity says:

    In church this morning I was given something that really made me ponder trust. I know we have a hard time trusting God because we like to be in control but I have never thought that we had to earn God’s trust. Luke 16:9-11 NLT
    God seems to watch how we treat the things we are given before we are given more. I think that would include talents or spiritual gifts and everything else the lord has blessed us with. I bet that would include His love as well the more we give out the more we will receive. This is something that I think we could spend some time thinking about regarding an area that God may hold as a secret for only those whom He will trust with His secrets. Just wondering!!

  68. nezzar says:


    I think you are right if you look at the people that God reveiled his plans to Daniel, David, John you will see people who had a very close and intimate relationship with Him. Also in the garden before Jesus was arrested He seperated 3 of his 12 out to go further with him than the others. So God reveils more of Himself to some than to others.

  69. nezzar says:

    Maybe a good topic would be who does God reveil Himself to.

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