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A Tree That Talks

As a rule, I drive past this tree twice a day on my way to and from work. Usually don’t even notice it. Just an pin oak full of dead leaves.

Yet it’s now the end of January, in the heart of winter,  long after those of us in West Michigan have finished our fall clean up of leaves.

But this oak tree just won’t give up its leaves. Bitter cold temperatures together with  storms and strong winds haven’t shaken them off.

If the pattern of past years hold true, this tree along with the rest of its family won’t drop their leaves until pushed from their branches by the new life of Spring.

Seems to me that, without even being aware of it,this tree exists to sing harmony with the ways and words of its Creator.

My thoughts go back to the prophet Isaiah who calls upon the trees to join all nature in singing and clapping their hands in the presence of the One who, alone,  can give new life to what He  has created and redeemed (Isa 44:23) (Isa 55:12).

Could that also be what is happening when we focus on the “oughts” and “shoulds” and “musts” of moral laws and commandments that expose the lingering “deadness” of our human nature? Does that have anything to do with why the Apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life” (2Cor 3:6)…  (2Cor 3:7-8); (2Cor 3:17-18)

PS after writing this I stopped by Wonder of Creation and found the Jan 25 thoughts of Dean Ohlman taking the music of nature far beyond what I’ve done here. In “The Vision of Narnia” he hears an inexpressible symphony and chorus.  Since I’m meeting him for coffee in a bit, am going to ask him more about that oak full of dead leaves.


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109 Responses to “A Tree That Talks”

  1. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    We also have trees like this and there is a type of bush used in hedging that also keeps its brown leave all winter, but I can’t remember it’s name.

    It struct me Mart that, when we are Baptised into Christ’s death and Born Again into His Resurrection Life, an awful lot of the “dead” self falls away, as with most leaves on trees.
    But there seems to be alot of dead debris left clinging on to us that only as we grow and the New Shoots of our Life in Jesus start to show through do these old dead Leaves of habbit and sin drop away.
    Once they are fallen off they can never be reatached and just rot away into nothing.
    Often though, we try to glue them back on and wonder why our new life is not as visible as it should be.


  2. SFDBWV says:

    Sergeant Joyce Kilmer
    165th Infantry (69th New York) A.E.F.
    Born December 6, 1886, killed in action near Ourcy, July 30, 1918

    I think that I shall never see
    A poem lovely as a tree.

    A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
    Against the earth’s sweet flowering breast;

    A tree that looks at God all day,
    And lifts her leafy arms to pray;

    A tree that many in summer wear
    A nest of Robins in her hair;

    Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
    Who intimately lives with rain.

    Poems are made by fools like me,
    But only God can make a tree.


  3. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Steve for the poem, especially the last line gave me a good laugh.
    Of trees clapping their hands, never knew what to make of that. It is the beech hedge that keeps his brown leaves all winter, till the next new leaves appear.
    I like the comparison with our old self, as being the dead leaves, and the new life the green leaves, but as with most trees, there is a winter time, a time the old leaves are dead, the new leaves are not yet visible, the buds are hidden in the branches.
    We look at ourselves and think we are dead, no new green leaves to see for outsiders.
    That is why it is so difficult to rely on the Spirit to work in us the new life, we have to work that new life out, but the bud must first be formed in our unseen parts. There is a time of no leaves, and then we tend to go back to the law. The letter of the law. And then we miss the newness of Life. I know, because I was once in those legalistic churches. They miss the joy of living in the Spirit.
    Love, joy, peace against such things thers is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
    We forget that the law is only there to show what is wrong, the law does not move a finger to help us to do right.
    We should be christians full of joy, but the legalistic christians is not, he holds on the the commandments as his guide in life, and not Jesus Himself, His guidance through the Holy Spirit.
    That is why Jesus had to come, His death paid for our sins, our old self dies with Him in the grave, the dead leaves. His resurrection life is the new life.
    If we live in His new life, we must trust that we will not break the ten commandments. There is no law against love…

  4. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends!

    Thanks, Mart, “for the tree that talks.” It is a loving picture of what the Lord must see when looking upon the hearts of human beings who insist upon compartmental thinking about the body and the spirit.

    Somehow, it brings to mind the time at Bethsaida (where there were pools of water) when Jesus took his own saliva and spread it on the eyes of the blind man. At first he saw men looking like trees walking around. After laying his hands upon him again, Jesus restored the man’s sight fully. (Mark 8:23, 24, 25)

    Schaeffer says: “As Christ’s death redeems men, including their bodies, from the consequences of the Fall, so his death will redeem all nature from the Fall’s evil consequences at the time when we are raised from the dead.” (Pollution and Death of Man, Schaeffer et al, Crossway, 1992, p 64)

    I believe I have seen the quaking aspens “clap their hands” in an autumn wind. There is also a breath-taking display of when they shed their leaves, showering the hills and valleys with gold. (Isa 55:12)

    May we release our used up ideas about the super-abundant grace of God in such a way!

    In Him,

  5. BruceC says:

    All of us will have some dead leaves on us when we go home. But once there they will all be gone and replaced by new living ones from the Gardener.
    While here we are to nurture our “tree” so that as many new living leaves may appear as possible with God’s help.
    It’s a good example of our completeness in Christ. We will be FULLY complete when we are with Him.

    Soli Deo Gloria!

    PS Bracing for an expected sleet/freezing rain storm.

  6. remarutho says:

    Thinking of the human/tree comparison brings many a picture to mind (maybe Tolkein’s TreeBeard the Ent):-)

    We may consider our oak-like tenacity — as well as our rejoicing and release like an aspen. Paul told the church at Corinth: “And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transforned into the same image from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.”

    Our confidence is not in ourselves, but in the Lord — 2 Cor 3:4, 5, 6


  7. SFDBWV says:

    In the many studies of scripture I have done, it is apparent to me that every living thing that exists here on earth also exists in heaven in some form.

    God gives special attention to trees in Geneses 1: 11 and then plants two very special trees in the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2: 9. In Revelation 11: 4 God explains that the two witnesses are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the Earth. As having already been mentioned in Psalms 52: 8 and Zechariah 4: 3.

    Once again special power shown in the trees mentioned in Revelation 22:2

    Job complained in Job 14: 1-7 that a man is not like a tree that can be cut down and sprout back up, Jesus explained in John 15: 1 that He is the true vine and His Father the husbandman.

    Those among us who have had the privilege of entering an ancient forest cannot help but feel the presence of God, feel humble and in awe of the giants around you.

    Trees have such an important role in the balance of life yet too many of us are too wrapped up in ourselves to appreciate it.

    I often tell the science story concerning trees and their predator the caterpillar and in some parts of the world leaf eating monkeys. When a tree is attacked by leaf eaters they begin to produce a chemical that in some trees are poisonous and in others that just make the leaf taste bad to its predator.

    This is amazing enough concerning we think that trees or plants are not self aware, but the really truly amazing fact is that when a tree is attacked in such a way, other trees nearby not of the same type or family also begin to produce that same defense mechanism as the tree under attack. None of the trees are touching one another either by limb or root yet they somehow communicate the threat to other trees in their area.

    O Henry wrote of an old oak leaf that kept a young girl’s hope alive, I though of that story as soon as I read Mats post.

    Our oak trees have all lost their dark brown leaves; only in the taller trees can one see an odd ball of dried leaves nestled in the branches and recognize them as summer nests of the squirrels that built them.

    I also often think of the sacrifice trees make for the use of men, fuel for heat, lumber for building, even sculpted for mans view of art and of course as a tool the most tragic of all uses to hang the creator on.


  8. oneg2dblu says:

    Bob… What a great analogy! I’m now thinking our fallen leaves as they rot also rent for others a growing medium, that is the byproduct of witnessing our right living as we model what we now believe. Gary

  9. oneg2dblu says:

    Foreverblessed, I treasure your words about the budding taking place in our inner parts. Good Stuff!
    As we certainly have all had our moments of showing the world around us, absolutely no evidence at times. But, I return to the thought of how Christ acted when he came upon that fig tree with no fruit. The law of the gardener seems to say, wither and die unless you produce. I hope I have not pruned too heavily in my response, being as legalistic as I am. Was it just a bad day for that tree, or was it always acting as being real and never producing anything but attractive leaves? Just another thought, not to make one lose their present faith, but to stir up those who feel they do not need to produce anything. There are always two sides to every story…as His “well courted” Court, is always in Session! Gary

  10. oneg2dblu says:

    Maru, I was told the Aspens unlike most others, are attached to each other by their root system, where an Oak is reproduced by its acorns falling not to far from the tree, as yooperjack stated. I too have seen those dancing leaves of the Aspen, but I have not yet seen them covering the ground as you have, nor have I seen them at any other stage in their life, but the show they put on while dancing, was Amazing! Gary

  11. yooperjack says:

    Gary: Read the whole story about the fig tree; Jesus was having a bad day, that fig tree got in the way and was destroyed big time with just the words of the Lord. This is how He will destroy the wicked when He returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The sword in His mouth will slay the nations. Revelation 19: 11-16. That is breath taking power. *Wow* And He is on our side; we don’t need to fear anything but our own unbelief.

    As far as the oak tree stories??? Toast anyone? LOL

  12. remarutho says:

    Hey Gary!

    We took a life-changing motorcycle trip across the US — and drove through Eisenhower Tunnel in October. The aspens, I believe, shed their leaves in a brief, dramatic time-frame. Showers of those golden leaves were falling. They were “clapping their hands” at that time also (couple of days we traveled through). I was inspired to see them.

    Yes, scientists say their root systems are interconnected, so that they are “communicating” with one another. They produce catkins, I think, and then little seeds that scatter…Perhaps, a picture of “passing it on” rather than “holdin’ tight”…Maru

  13. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve thanks for sharing that poem. Although, I stand in awe of all creation, a tree does have a special place of its own for me. I’m retired from bus driving now, but on my last route was blessed to encounter a glorious tree which totally embraced the path on which I had to go around. Every day that tree would wait and I always focused on it thinking about those very words of that Poem, mixed with the thoughts of the Tree of Life which resides in every man. My father passed that poem on to me and impressed upon me his love for its place in his heart as well.
    Whenever I leave the Space Coast to travel up North, it is the Big Oak trees somewhere along the way that seem to always capture me with their great canopies and their overwhelming steadfast presence. Then, the White Birches come into play, and the rest of lot of Northern species, where I always get the pangs of returning home if you will. Thanks for that very quick trip this morning! Gary

  14. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I too have heard how trees sense the attacks around them, I believe some kind of chemical signal is given off by the attacked leaf when it is being eaten. The cent triggers the defencive poison in it’s own tree and others nearby.

    Made me think of when we are being attacked as Christians, whether worldly or spiritualy, do we send out warning signals to others.
    Maybe when we gird ourselves with the whole armour of God and live in the Joy & Peace of the knowledge of being in Him and totally safe, others can see we are like a great oak in a storm, rooted and unmovable.
    Or, maybe in our weakness we reveal His Strengh in us.

    I know, as you well know, sometimes only in adversity can the Glory of God shine through.


  15. poohpity says:

    When Jesus spoke to the fig tree after leaving the presence of the religious leaders and the mockery they had turned the temple into, as an acted out parable to show His anger at empty religion without substance. Just as the fig tree looked good from a distance but was fruitless at close examination all their activity and attention to moral laws really had no heart for true worship. True faith means bearing fruit for the kingdom, empty religion and no mercy has those who look fooled by words. God however is not fooled by empty words.

    James reminds us that what we say shows what is in our hearts. James 3:8-12 NLT.

  16. poohpity says:

    If I am paying attention to the “oughts”, “should’s” and “musts” of the moral law then it takes my eyes off of the vine and it seems to be then my efforts rather than relying on the ability of the Holy Spirit to do the work in my life. Several people seem to think that the product of that which the Holy Spirit produces in our lives needs our help. I guess I trust God more than I do my own efforts for change.

  17. sonchild2 says:

    On this interesting phenomenon of dead leaves remaining on some trees, I’ve had the same thoughts as you Mart. I’ve always been of the opinion that the tree is not finished its cycle yet – it’s still a work in progress – like I am. The leaves will come off when the tree is ready – as I’ve observed myself. Each species is different – all unique! I’ve also had thoughts that there could be numerous reasons for ‘why’ the leaves stay on, with such tenacity in the severest winds, and I just don’t know the reasons. Even scientists make speculations! Are the leaves still on to protect the new growth underneath – for one reason or another? Are they there to catch the snow and thus retain more moisture? If they fell in fall and decomposed at the foot of the tree, would that harm the tree? As you can see, I have a lot of questions! Spiritual applications can truly abound when observing God’s creation!

  18. poohpity says:

    So true sonchild2!! How it all works without our help but with our interference that is when we get tomatoes from a grape vine, lol!!

  19. SFDBWV says:

    Sonchild2, I love the mysteries that God provides for us to ponder and search, they are always looked at best when looked at through the lens of believing in creation not evolution.

    Their beauty and usefulness comes into light and perfect place in the harmony of a designed creation. And always is seen the signature of God in every matter of the existence we can observe.

    There are two types of edible mushrooms that grow on the bark of oak trees, one type on white oak and another on red oak. There is also a type of mushroom that only grows under apple trees.

    Somewhat ironic that pigs are still to this day used to find truffles that grow under the surface of the soil in the forests of the earth.

    I pity people who are blind to the wonders of creation and choose to not take the time to watch ants as they work all summer to prepare for winter or to take the time to stop and smell the roses.

    Sad indeed is the spirit of a person who does not see the majesty of mountains or the hypnotic peace of the ocean waves as they lap upon the beach.

    How tragic it is for some to never hear the songs of birds as they wake in the dark before dawn and sing their morning prayers or can appreciate the calm of a gentle breeze as the soft wind blows through the trees of summer.

    Some of us can find rest there among the trees and forests and for a time feel a little closer to God as we worship the creator careful not to worship the creation.

    A foggy rainy day in January in West Virginia, thankful for no snow today and the blessing of…today.


  20. yooperjack says:

    Steve: Or feed ants to an ant lion on a sandy beach.

  21. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Steve – you wrote, “Sad indeed is the spirit of a person who does not see the majesty of mountains…”

    That immediately reminded me of the first time I went to Colorado Springs. I flew in at night so it was dark outside. I had a pounding headache, no doubt from the altitude change, and I went right to sleep. I woke up the next morning, looked out a window and had a perfect view of Pike’s Peak.

    At the time, I was not a saved Christian. I was a young, lapsed Catholic. But when I saw those mountains, my first thought was, “How easy it must be for the people who live here to have faith in God when they see this everyday.”

    Of course, the mountains didn’t “save” me. I still had a ways to go before God finally got me. However, the beauty of the mountains gave me a hint of something so good and glorious that I had never imagined before.

  22. saled says:

    A few tough leaves still hang from the red oak trees in my yard, but here in Maine it is the beech trees who hang onto their leaves the longest. My husband and I were caretakers of a hillside cemetery that overlooks a lake, and every spring it was our job to rake the leaves and make the cemetery look beautiful for the Memorial Day ceremony that takes place there. We would usually have the leaves all raked and carried away by the first week or two in May, but every year the dead beech leaves clung tightly to their branches until a good strong wind blew down across the lake just before Memorial Day. We always had to scurry around and rake again to clean up those beech leaves. And yes, they do wait for the new leaves to appear. At times, you will even see some dead leaves hanging on among the new.

    Today’s subject makes me think of Luke 11:24-26. I find that if I try to get rid of a bad habit, it just becomes worse unless I replace it with something.
    Some of my flaws are like dead leaves that will hang there until they are pushed away by something new and better. One of my time wasting habits used to be spending too much time with the newspaper. Well, I am glad to say that poohpity has introduced me to the chronological Bible offered by Bible Gateway, and my newspaper habit is being pushed away by a new leaf.

  23. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,

    Hope all is well in your lives. All is well in mine…been enjoying two days of heavy rain in Texas, and some of our lakes (that were almost dried up or completely dried up) received half the amount needed to bring us out of *drought* status! We Texans are so overjoyed for the rain! Praise the LORD…He does all things well! Wanted to share some thoughts on this blog topic, but nothing came to mind because the sandman is calling me… Looking forward to chatting with yall soon.

    Love to all…

    ps. The sun came out after the morning rain, and it was a beautiful 57 degrees this afternoon.

  24. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Tracey and Regina, if nothing comes up, that is OK isn’t it. SOmetimes I am thinkng hard to have something valuable to add, but why? Maybe there is more time to ponder over what others have written. I was wondering for people who live in the hot areas of earth, the subtropical, and the tropical, they do not have the season changes. The tress have leaves and flowers all year round. A lot of the lesson Jesus learns have a seasonal side to it.
    Maybe these tropical trees resemble more the slow steady state we are in, dead leaves still there, and new leaves ever coming up.
    We have beautiful sunshine today, so much rain and rain and rain, everything is soaked, the land is wet, but no thread to the dikes. Have a blessed day, ful of God’s sunshine in our lives.

  25. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Good Mid Morning to Everyone.
    A day off work so no need to be up before the Sun today!

    Regina: You are welcome to some of our rain. Foreverblessed and me have had one of the wettest winters in a long while, on the plus side, the temperature here in west Cornwall has rarely dropped below 50F day or night.

    Saled: You are so right about replacing our bad habbits with something else.

    Steve: You made me laugh!

    I was drifting away into paradise at your wonderful description of nature and I could imagine your West Virginian lilt speaking the poetic words of life itself….

    Then to be awoken back to the real world:

    “A foggy rainy day in January in West Virginia, thankful for no snow today and the blessing of…today.


    Thank God we can Thank and Praise Him no matter what comes our way and enjoy His Beauty in all things!


  26. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends!

    Mart, I wonder whether the oak tree you photographed is a sign of the loving curse of nature on God’s part – or the hard-hearted attitude on humanity’s part?

    Exploring your friend, Dean Ohlman’s site a bit further, I was interested in his idea that the curse God spoke after the Fall in the Garden of Eden (the ground, man, woman and serpent) is in fact a loving act. He wrote:

    “Here’s my theory: God said we will make our living by hard labor being reminded of our sin by facing a natural world that would in many ways be hostile to us; and we said ‘No way.’ So immediately we put our creative powers to work to make ‘labor-saving’ and ‘time saving’ devices. The rest is history, as they say.” (Wonder of Creation 01-23-12; key verse Gen 3:17-19)

    Dean Ohlman offers the explanation that our poor stewardship of earth’s resources comes from our stubborn self-will. We insist upon so many labor-saving devices and so many comforts that the by-products of that “habit” have poisoned our air, soil, oceans and rivers.

    He asks:
    “Do you think that we have become a fat and loveless culture in part because we have spurned the love of our Creator, who was wise enough to know that our avaricious nature needed the discipline of the curse that we have worked so hard to overturn?”

    Between the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of eternal life is the tree on which Jesus was crucified.


  27. yooperjack says:

    I can’t believe no one asked what an ant lion is? Maybe you all thought my post to Steve was another wierd joke. Or maybe you Googled ant lion. LOL

    They are one of Gods very smart but ugly creatchers. They live on sandy beaches, some how they make a funnel in the sand 1-2 inches across and about the same dept. They hide under the sand at the bottom of the funnel. When an ant wanders into the funnel they can’t get out because they can’t climb up the funnel walls the sand keeps caving under them. When they finally get to the bottom of the funnel the ant lion grabs them in it’s powerful jaws and pulls the ant under the sand.

    When we where kids we spent alot of time feeding ant lions. We didn’t have a TV or i-pads.

    Maybe the sand is Hell the ant lion is the Devil the funnel is sin and we are the ants? We kids where playing god and putting the sinner in the pit? *Not really* I guess we can spiritualize anything. LOL

  28. SFDBWV says:

    In complete agreement with Dean Ohlman on mans careless exploitation of our natural resources as mentioned by Maru.

    The area of West Virginia I live in also borders Western Maryland and is rich in History from the colonial times forward. George Washington surveyed the boundary between Virginia and Maryland and kept a diary and log of his adventure into this *wilderness*.

    The Northwest Turnpike cuts through here and helped bring “civilization” to the frontier of the Americas in the 18th century. There was an English outpost close by named Fort Ogden and in 1762 marked the boundary between the English Colonies and “Indian” territory.

    George Washington wrote in his diary of the very difficult time he and his party had in traveling through this area of the Potomac River as it was nothing but a giant ancient forest with Laurel and Rhododendron under it’s canopy some 20 feet in height and nearly impenetrable.

    In a book titled “44 Years in the Life of a Hunter” by Meshach Browning, he described the area south of the North West Turnpike in Garrett county Maryland across the Potomac as being good for absolutely nothing, an impenetrable forest.

    There is no written record of pre-colonial natives here, though I know of at least one ancient camp or summer village, only by the remains of arrowheads and other such artifacts people have discovered over time.

    The American Civil War changed forever the secret garden that most avoided here in my world, for as soon as it was decided, the Great Industrial Revolution began to dawn on this “Godforsaken place”.

    Hundreds of thousands of acres of real-estate and its minerals were *given* to The West Virginia Central and Pittsburgh Railway Co. by the territories new owners in order to build a railroad from Cumberland MD to Elkins West Virginia.

    As the railroad began to construct its ribbon of steel along the Potomac River, they stopped at strategic locations and built towns in order to begin reaping profits from their newly acquired gift and pay for its expansion.

    I have pictures of the giant hardwood forest they clear cut, some white oaks being 10 to 12 feet in diameter at the stump as well as Yellow Poplar and others that’s size is only measured in comparison today in the thousands of years old Sequoia’s found in the Pacific North West.

    The early men who came with the railroad to work in the timber and sawmills boasted that their grandchildren would not live to see this forest cut down as it was too large in scope to imagine being able to do; yet they themselves lived to not only see the forest completely cleared off but then the underbrush catch fire and burn for several months down to the bedrock.

    The next secret found in this garden to be coal, but that story is for another subject as it is the destruction of another resource…water.

    Thank you for being patient with me.


  29. remarutho says:

    Good Morning & Amen Brother —

    The saga of plundering the forests and the land under that rich and diverse canopy plays out about the same a hundred years later among huge stands of redwood and fir on the West Coast. Our Pecos Bill and Paul Bunyan myths — super-strong and resourceful heroes who reshaped the land — have turned to ashes in our mouth.

    I pray the healing of the land will overtake the ruin of centuries of poor stewardship! There are many (small) projects underway to restore wetlands, forests, and mining sites. Sadly, some who have an eye on the “green” way of life also have a profit motive more than a love of God’s creation. Our hope is in the Lord.


  30. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    The Industrial revolution happened nearly 100 years, here in West Cornwall, before anywhere else in Briton.
    Early 1700’s with the invention of Steam Pumps for the Tin & Copper Mines to allow deeper shafts.
    The Pump Engine Houses are dotted all over the landscape, I can see three from my bedroom window. There were also “Tramways” and steam driven railways. Richard Trevithick, who invented the Steam Machines, also invented a little steam road car, a replica of which still gets paraded around Cornwall. All this way before 1800 and Queen Victoria.
    My main point being is that all this industrialisation has long gone and Cornwall has been post industrial for over 100 years, relying on Fishing,Farming, a bit of mining and now tourism.
    So there is hope for any landscape that has been “raped” by greed and Mega industry.
    Subject moved away a bit from a tree keeping it’s leaves but even in industrial waste there are the new shoots of growth and a promise of new life.

    It is well worth googling Richard Trevithick as it is amazing how much he achieved, with little recognition, before the industrial revolution took off, or should that be control.


  31. SFDBWV says:

    How very correct you are Maru in mentioning the errant misguided people who are labeled *green* and not conservationists.

    Our ridgetops here are now covered with giant freakish looking windmills that hundreds of acres of forest had to be cleared in order to erect and that kill thousands of bats and migratory birds constantly.

    All for the profit of a few and benefit to none.

    Jackie, I knew what an ant lion is and understood your comment to me. I have always appreciated the natural life around me and am always thrilled to see how God’s creation fits and leaves open the wonder of it all.

    One quick little story; the African termites that build those huge towers we see in pictures are completely blind as we understand seeing. Yet they erect structures that in our size ratio would be buildings 5 miles high, that have the ability to allow in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide through its walls, that has underground air conditioning erected just above subterranean water to keep the entire tower and colony an even temperature. All done in the dark by tiny little insects some would think of as “unaware, and unimportant”.


  32. oneg2dblu says:

    Good morning all… my friend Laraine who is searching for answers, emailed yesterday looking for me to lead her to the biblical response to, why she would be having jealous thoughts. She is totally new to all this biblical remedy seeking. God has put her in my path and now I must do a Work of Helps, and be a guiding human hand if you will, to constantly focus on God’s Word for the answers to all our life’s concerns.
    After sharing the list of all the less than wonderful attributes of the human condition found in our sin nature, I sent her to the concordance, and shared two of Paul’s other writings in Corinthians. One about the jealous quarrelling even in the church, and the jealousy that arose out of following a particular man’s teaching instead of Following Christ, found in 1 Corinthians 3.
    Then, I gave her the “cure” to them all found in 1 Corinthians 13, where that God given cure to even the worst parts of our nature can be overcome through this Love, a Love that only God can provide, and only if we allow Him to have the greater part of us to become more Christ-like.
    She is focusing on the dry leaves right now, and I know as foreverblessed has said, the bud is being developed in the inner parts. Praise God that she is asking. For I told her the way is to Ask, Seek, and Knock, so she is already on the way to finding her resolve. I would have gladly shared some other gifted God directed writing done in our time, but could not find a specific book of helps addressing this question from a Christian perspective. If anyone here in this family can provide a link to one it would be most helpful. I know they are out there, but I do not currently have one at my disposal.
    I also shared that just having the thought is in our nature, but allowing it to control our actions, is where it then becomes our sin. Gary

  33. poohpity says:

    Gary, just a thought you could let your friend know it is just normal to have jealousy as you said. If she wants to read about a few people who were jealous there is always Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, the Tower of Babel, Joseph and his brothers, Aaron and Moses, Saul and David, David and Uriah, the disciples and a lot of others. It would seem the only cure for jealously is forgiveness by Jesus and even then she will have jealousy but she can admit to Him and ask for forgiveness.

  34. poohpity says:

    You do not have to act on it for it to be a sin just thinking of it is a sin.

  35. yooperjack says:

    Gary: Jealousy, the green eyed monster. I treat that spirit like any other, I speak to it and tell it to take a hike, in the name of Jesus, it has no place in a child of God. It will return at another time. If it gets real bad start praising the Lord and sing praises onto the Lord; no unclean spirit can stand being in the presents of a person that is praiseing God.

    Trust me it works. Some times they even try to intrupt my prayer time with thoughts ,ideas and sujestions. I say: Lord, I’ll be right back I have a spirit buging me. When they attact me in my dreams I will wake my self up and get rid of them.

    It’s a constant battle but if you don’t give up they will get the message and move on, till you get sick or have a weak moment, then they will return in full force.

    As long as they’re bugging you, you can bet your on fire for the Lord, if they leave you alone?????

    The Bible is the manual, any other book is just comentary.

  36. yooperjack says:

    Jesus said: if we look on another with lust in our heart we have commited sin. Yes, sometimes it’s the flesh so then confess it and move on. Praiseing God will remove those thoughts also.

  37. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh… I guess you think I did not really help her in any way then? I didn’t want to send her through to much reading for it seems to confuse even some of us more than finding a smaller directly related pamphet or booklet. I think telling her to start in Genesis and read until she gets to Revelation may be a bit overwhelming for her. Yes, the human condition is the common link for all of us, as to why we are all sinners who need a Saviour. I’m looking for something, shorter and more easily read for a person who is searching.
    Jealousy is the topic she is pursuing here. I do not see that particular topic highlighted in the Garden with Adam and Eve.

  38. oneg2dblu says:

    Soory pooh, I was not finished. I guess all sin could be linked to jealousy in its broader context and throughout the entire bible as well. So, forgive me for not finding your suggestion as simlpe as the one I was looking for. Gary :)

  39. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… we are on the same page brother, I speak to that monster often, and it flees like the Devil it is!! This lady has been a practicing Budhist for many years and is not converted yet, so I can’t get too heavy with how I direct her. She is only searching for this one now surfacing event in hwe life. It may be that one point that God is calling her to, to bring her to Himself. I am willing to take this one step at a time. One baby step if you will. Gary

  40. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack…For me personally the Lord used the Issue of Abortion to break my earthly vessel of sin and its fulfilled desire, to bring us to act upon it! I didn’t need the grasp of the full Word of God to break me. I only needed to hear His Voice and respond. But, that was my story. We all have one, and they are all different. Praise God! Gary

  41. oneg2dblu says:

    I found a great little book on the school bus one day and it was directed to specific topics that are common to us all who are searching for the answers. It was very specific, well written and easy to read liitle paperback. It gave some bible verses to completely satisfy the seeker who is looking for biblical answers.
    It was a gem, covered the easy and hard stuff.
    No gimmics, just plain truth! I gave it someone else who was searching for Him. If I had it today, I would send it along to her as well. Gary

  42. poohpity says:

    Gary, I did not say anything about how you handled it being wrong. I only gave those people to read about so that she does not feel all alone with the problem of jealousy. In the garden Adam and Eve wanted to be like God that is why I listed them they were jealous of God knowing the difference of good and evil. I will not direct anyone who is a follower of Christ to any book other than the Bible for any answers. The books others write if they are Christians get their information from the bible so why not go directly to the source.

    Nothing is more simple than admitting the problem to God and then asking for forgiveness and His help to overcome. It was wrong for me even to reply to anything you, Jack, or Steve writes because it seems to end up in a free for all and twisted all around.

    The simplest answer is to direct anyone for any reason to God who alone has the answers.

  43. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… I re-read what you said, you are right about jealousy can only be forgiven as a cure. My thinking was this… If we truly had the Love of Christ would we then also be having jealous thoughts overpower us?
    Then, I realized one thing, God who possess this Love is also a Jealous God! On that premise, I guess jealousy will never find its cure in Love.
    Cain and Able is a perfect story of jealousy.
    Christ is the perfect story of forgiveness.
    Forgive me, Gary

  44. yooperjack says:

    Old slew foot, Satan himself is the biggest offend.

  45. yooperjack says:

    Pooh: never stay silent in fear of a free for all. I learned alot from you and even copyed those three distortion of Christianity you pasted.

    As long as we respect one another as brothers and sisters. And just have fun shareing our opinions and not try to change one another we’ll do fine. You know just like our kids do.

    I do this for entertainment, when I get bord I’ll be gone. Maybe someone will learn something about the Christian life style and maybe they will be turned off if we get too testy. LOL

    My gift is the gift of helps that’s why I greeved for bubbles. We are really handycaped in this form to be a help to anyone.

  46. oneg2dblu says:

    Please forgive me, as I have been perhaps wrongly taught, that we can not prevent the thought. However, through the Promise of the Word, and the Power of the Holy Spirit living in us, we can escape the acting upon it. We do not have to allow sin’s thoughts to develope and become a sinful action, we must choose to also develope it.
    If having just the thought was the death sentence, then, Thou shall not kill, should be written as, Thou shall not “even think” of killing anything, or in our fallen condition, thou shall not think.
    I was thinking that my using abortion as a “way out,” was not my real sin, but I feel my acting upon it, as developing it to the point of actually stopping a beating heart was!
    Then, I actually broke the written law, Thou Shall Not Kill!
    Wasn’t the breaking of that Basic Law, what really convicted me!
    No, I belive it was my not seeing the value of that develpoing God-given life in the bud if you will, that was what convicted me!
    If that loving of all life value had developed instead,
    then, I could not have acted they way I did. Love would have ruled over my wrongly motivated thoughts.
    I guess God could have used the, you stole a penny candy when you were five years old, the Thou Shall Not Steal law was broken, and for that sin you are accountable today, but He didn’t use that one for me. Nor did He ever say that just thinking of taking that candy was my death sentence. But, it certainly was when we take all things into the greater context of thinking. In the original plan of God’s Law, man’s thoughts were not addressed as the wrong doing as much as the actions that broke them.
    We have progressed here to this… before action, first comes the thought, and that thought now is enough to convict us all. Lord have Mercy on Us, every one since Adam and Eve, and even Adam and Eve, are all sinners who need a Saviour. None can ever escape that thought!
    Funny thing, there is no Law agaist Love, so when Love trumps all other thoughts, no law is broken.
    Give us Your Love Lord, and forgive us not having it! Gary

  47. yooperjack says:

    Gary:I covered that by saying: Lustful thoughts while looking at another is of the flesh and is sin. When evil spirits put thoughts, ideas and sujestions in our minds that is not sin till we act on it. That’s why we have to get rid of it right away. Every sin we do starts with a thought.

  48. yooperjack says:

    P.S. All this time I thought you where a guy because you said you went to Great Lakes training center. LOL

  49. SFDBWV says:

    Gary, my friend and my brother; there are no easy questions nor are there any easy quick answers in life to anything and especially when contemplating the rightful and wrongful actions of men.

    What is your friend feeling jealous about? Is it about another person or what another person has?

    I would hope she is feeling jealous for the peace and strength she sees in Christians and wants to have it for herself.

    I would think that no sin, but an awakening to something missing in her life.

    However jealousy directed toward possession is a killer and will destroy relationships and even drive some to murder.

    An abstract thought for you, if you will permit me. The sixth commandment can be interpreted to state thou shall not *murder* instead of thou shall not kill. This understanding of the Hebrew word *ratsach* makes better sense considering as soon as the Ten commandments were given to the Hebrew’s God sent them into the Promised Land and told them to *kill* every man woman and child including the animals. Not to mention that God killed every living thing in all the earth except those in the Ark.

    Attention should also be placed on the difference between jealousy and covet ness. Qana (jealous) meaning to be zealous, Ehamad (covet) meaning to lust after.

    Your friend needs to have a relationship with the Holy Spirit in order to be freed of her concern and the way to that relationship lies in her acceptance of Jesus of Nazareth to be the Son of God and for her to *believe* on Him to deliver her.

    Seeds hidden behind the dead and corrupted remains of a former life.


  50. SFDBWV says:

    Maru my Uncle Ted and my dad worked in the redwood forests of northern California near Eureka. my dad came back east (to marry my mom), but my Uncle Ted remained a tree faller in the Redwoods most all of his adult life, he *retired* from the timber business to work in the local zoo where he gained a little attention in the local press for going inside a grizzly bears cage and rescuing 2 cubs from a male grizzly.

    They allowed him to keep the cubs for a time and raise them up until too big for his ability to keep them.

    Your remark about ashes reminded me of Ted’s dying wish. He was cremated and his ashes strewn over the redwood forest he had come to love.

    Yes indeed, bitter is the taste of regret.

    Bob, you will be amused to know it is 33 degrees here, has rained most of the night and all morning and has now turned to snow. Just as there is beauty in an angry sea, so there is in living in the mountains with all the intense weather God enjoys sharing with us.

    Gary, I forgot and intended to mention that I was glad to have given you a good memory with the famous Joyce Kilmer poem “Trees”.


  51. yooperjack says:

    Steve: Tree faller??? Did you mean *Lumber or Timber Jack*. We still have a lumber industry but the econemy is killing everything. The mineing is long gone.

  52. yooperjack says:

    P.S. Steve today they call them *loggers*.

  53. poohpity says:

    Gary, I forgive you. Thank you for the apology that means a lot to me.

    If we fully trust God just as Mart mentioned, “the trees to join all nature in singing and clapping their hands in the presence of the One who, alone, can give new life to what He has created and redeemed” then we will know that no advise or anything else we do can give new life and change to anything created.

    The lesson learned from the book of Job and the advise that his 4 friends offered did nothing to soothe the circumstances Job was going through it just compounded the misery. Had they chosen to just listen and be there for him would have given much more comfort than all their advise or trying to fix him. They had no idea about anything only the things they saw and the Lord does so much behind the scenes that to not direct people to the Lord would be saying that we know better than God who knows all the details of nature and humanity.

  54. SFDBWV says:

    Jackie, just have a minute but yes a “tree faller” is a colloquial term for the man that cuts down the tree.
    It is somewhat difficult for me to say we have a timber industry as the trees they cut down here now are very small and only maybe 20 years old.
    Coal mining here is still King but the bigger operations have moved off this mountain to the larger Pittsburg seam that is continuous from Pennsylvania through to Alabama.

    Have a good evening up there in the UP.


  55. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… I am a man, a man who also suffered the loss of his only child as if it were my own. I took the excuse of abortion as the easy way out. Based on fear of the unknown and a perceived economic inconvenience. I supported abortion just as much as the doctor who did it. I told myself at the time, before Christ became real to me, I was being a modern thinking man and politically correct in supporting my girlfriends choice, but believe me I helped her justify it, paid for it, and in more ways than one. Children don’t recover from murder! Gary

  56. poohpity says:

    Hebrews 4:16 NLT

  57. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… thanks, I feel if the Lord is out to get her, He’ll have it His Way. Boy did you open my eyes to the depth of jealousy today and what it could actually cover. Perhaps, that Serpant in the Garden made Eve feel a jealous pang to have the knowlegde of God and that tripped her up. Maybe all self-serving sin is really our own jealousy to have it our way.
    Until today, I only saw the lesson in the Garden to be about the Deception of Eve, and the Disobedience of Adam as the main events. But, I see how jealousy could play into leading us all to sin, and how godly directed love, as I see it could lead us away from evil thoughts and desires.
    Just a thought…as forgiveness and salvation which we already have as Believers, seems to me to be another issue. Our nature is still serving up sin daily as the special of the dsy if we choose to order it from Evil’s platter.
    Time for a food fight? I’m hungry… :) Gary

  58. yooperjack says:

    Gary: Most people never think about the man involved. I’m sure you had a talk with God about this and He forgave you and what is truly amazing, He has forgotten about it already. Now you must forgive yourself and your friend. I don’t think you will ever forget it in this life. We don’t fix things like this, but we can manage them.

    When we get to Heaven I have a feeling all of our bad memorys, self inflicked or put there by others will be wiped out of our minds. There will be no more tears.

    In Gods eyes our slate is wiped clean. With us it’s like the twilight zone we keep playing our past life over and over in our heads. Maybe memory loss isn’t so bad when we get old. LOL My problem it’s short term memory loss not that old dead man I crusifyed 40 years ago.

    We are forgiven.

  59. poohpity says:

    Yes our sin comes up daily that is why Paul wrote Romans 7:14-24 then the most important verse is the next one verse 25. Paul does not leave it there he goes on to Romans 8:1-4.

  60. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… Yes I’ve dealt with that, Praise God. I live in the Grace and Forgiveness of Christ and in the knowledge that I made the wrong decission then, and I will not ever go there again without Him being at my side and prompting me otherwise. For all life is precious to Him who created it! Gary

  61. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh… good verses. They are very tricky though, and sometimes are used to teach an allowance for continued sin. Which has been debated forever as to what was Paul’s intention given there. I cling to this verse, 1 Corinthians 10:13 as the more powerful remedy to all temptation which then leads to sin. Why wait upon the Lord to remove temptation from us, when we already have the Indwelling Power to overcome temptation within us? I prefer verses that allow us to stand against sin, than those that give in to it!
    I believe different teaching, leads to different living. Some say it is “All Christ” with no works, and some say it is “Christ and Us” working together. Some see no good thing in man, and another sees an Overpowering Spirit that resides in man once he is regenerated, where he sees a Spirit that is always working together with us, helping us to make better choices. Not perfection, just a better choice! Gary

  62. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… I get your point about perhaps needing more info in the actual jealousy and its direction, as being needed to properly guide one to finding sucess. I also agree with you on that point, as I have a background as a personal trianer, and I know that specificity in training is an important rule to employ for specific sucess. But, the basics never get thrown away!
    Without engaging in the particulars, we can send any person with any issue, back to God’s Word, and He can deal with the specifics.
    If I felt she wanted to tell me more, I would dig further, but for now I trust the Lord will have His Way, he knows her heart.
    Jealousy has many faces and it takes on many scenarios
    in our lives. I like your breaking the words down to the root, but isn’t the root of all jealousy for us
    now living in our corrupted bodies pretty basic, as having its root in sin?
    I sent her to the rule book, where she can define for herself what form of jealousy pervades her thinking.
    The best counselor I know is found in the Word of God.
    Romans 10:17-19 may have been a better choice, but where ever God leads us, He also provides!

  63. poohpity says:

    Gary, I must have missed the places in scripture that are used to make allowances for one to continue in sin. Nor have I ever heard any debate on what Paul meant by the verses I mentioned. They seem to be pretty basic that we can not always be perfect but Jesus did come to our rescue so that we can live by the Spirit of Grace not having to live under the law which leads to death.

  64. lovely says:

    gary, Talking about jealousy i am one of its victim and its painful and it feels like being trap in an unending emotional pain. I don’t know what kind of past your friend has been through but this jealousy of mine does have its root,where i get sensitive & easily rejected common when you come from broken families.
    During my time with God He gave me
    Psalm 21:7 & Psalm 22:5 which means to trust him, He showed me that the reason i am jealous because i always look to others to meet my needs(attention,love etc) and wanted what others have but if I look to God to meet all this need , kept focusing and Renewing my mind in Romans 12;2 it will be easier. I am still in the journey of that ,
    forever blessed, i live near the equator and i am jealous of all the cold weather that u guys are talking about.(00ps God forgive me for being jealous again)LOL. I lived in the city and have very little access to trees but i sure like to look at it now that we’re talking about it …but this is the verse that came to mind
    Jeremiah 17:8 They will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green.
    It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit.”

  65. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Lovely –

    You wrote:

    “…but if I look to God to meet all this need , kept focusing and Renewing my mind in Romans 12:2, it will be easier. I am still in the journey of that, forever blessed…”

    I would like to say I agree with your comment. So am I, still in that process of renewal and drawing upon our Lord for all that is good, having no goodness of my own.

    Your Jeremiah reference makes me think of Psalm 1, which contrasts the one who seeks God with the one who does not:

    3 He is like a tree
    planted by streams of water
    that yields its fruit in its season,
    and its leaf does not wither.
    In all that he does, he prospers.

    I think of Mart’s oak tree – holding fast to those dry leaves that no longer draw nourishment from the sun or the soil. Spring will change that. Those old leaves will be pushed off by the new growth. May we continue in the blessings that God freely gives us, trusting him more and more, and hoping in the transforming power of his love!


  66. yooperjack says:

    lovely: The root of jealousy is *pride* and self centerdness. Put Jesus first in your thoughts and in your life then you will be set free. If you don’t get rid of this jealousy you are makeing and inroad for Satan to cause all sorts of trouble in your life.

    Anyone that has not surrendered to Christ is on their own to fight this spirit. We Christians have the Holy Spirit to help us. We can speak to to those spirits and command them to leave in the name of Jesus. How can an unbeliever do that if they don’t have Jesus as Lord.

    Good luck.

  67. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends —

    It seems to me the root of jealousy is fear: fear of lack and fear of loss…out of that same root grows anger.

    Luck, that deceptive old lady — rides the beast — and presides over casinos and race tracks.

    Blessings to All,

  68. yooperjack says:

    Maru: You will have a better chance at the casinos and race tracks of winning than to take on Satan by your self. Trust me.

    I’ll stick with pride and self as the roots.

  69. yooperjack says:

    P.S. The three *root* sins are lust of the *flesh*, lust of the *eyes* and the big one *pride* of life.

  70. SFDBWV says:

    Self is the base of all sin.


  71. yooperjack says:

    Right on Steve. 1John 2:15-17.

  72. oneg2dblu says:

    Good morning all, Thank God, that his Tree of Life in us speaks and is well watered, and through Him becomes Fruitful. Thank you all for your comments, and your verses.
    Lovely, what a lovely name you have here and your presence matches it well. That Jeremiah 17:8 says much also as to how a Christian “should” live there life, like a well planted tree, well watered, and producing fruit. I say good digging is all part of proper planting, so Thanks for digging up that verse.
    Maru, your Romans 12:2 hits the mark perfectly, with the renewing of the mind and not conforming to the world as the old mind had done, and done so very well.
    If nothing changes, nothing changes!

    Pooh, I believe that Paul in those verses you cited is teaching us about the consequences of surrendering to our sin nature instead of the God-given Spirit that resides within us. He is NOT teaching us we are helpless as some teachers do, but that we still have a choice as to which nature we will surrender to, and we must continue to resist Evil, not just wait for God to take it away.
    To me, we will always be held accountable to the His Law regardless, because God never changed it and He never will. It stands in its new application today through His Holy Spirit’s promptings to convict us daily into where the boundaries of Right and Wrong are, and Always have been. No teaching, belief system, or even God himself will ever change those boundaries for us. A teaching that surely will not be heard by many in this generation today who have been taught otherwise and now sin freely without any apparent consequence. Paul, in all Galatians 5 speaks well to how all who are taught wrongly today, are those who are now freely sinning as well. I am considered as a closed minded wretched legalist when it comes to God’s Never Changing Law! Please excuse my absurd rigidity, but, I’ve been taught that, “Sin always separates us from God!”
    It seems that particular teaching separates many of us here as well.
    I wonder why today we can act like lifeless dried up leaves, acting as if we are no different than the world with our “unchanged tendencies” thriving as though we are not being well watered and producing good fruit? I believe that questionable doctrine teaches us to produce questionalbe fruit! Gary

  73. poohpity says:

    I have always believed that sin is anything that takes God’s place in your life and hinders your relationship with Him and it causes harm to others or yourself.

  74. poohpity says:

    I was sure it taught that as long as we are in these bodies we will sin but Christ has taken care of it. Not that we wake up everyday with the intention to sin but it happens because we are human and until go home to be with Jesus with our new bodies. That is not at all giving us permission to sin that is stating a fact that it is impossible while we live here to not sin. There was only One who followed the Law precisely to the letter and did not sin that is why His life was accepted as a Holy sacrifice for our sins. There is therefor no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because we are covered with His atoning blood thus Romans 8:1-4.

  75. poohpity says:

    Until one realizes fully our human nature they will never fully understand the grace and mercy of our God.

  76. yooperjack says:

    Gary: Your starting to get it. You said: “Sin always separates *us* from God” You are absolutly right. On the other side of that coin is: “Sin does not separate *God* from us” Sin will open an inroad for Satan into our livies for sure. And wreck our testimony. Keep on studying Romans.

    Read 1John 3:9 and Ephesians 1:13

  77. poohpity says:

    The bible seems to say that sin does separate God from us because he is Holy. So both sides of the coin say the same thing we are separated from God because of sin but because of Christ, God looks at us through the blood of the Lamb, covered and presented before God. God only looks upon us because of Christ atoning sacrifice nothing we can do because our best efforts are what caused the separation in the first place. So does that mean after accepting Christ our good deeds make us any more presentable to God, no, because we still sin. The main point is that Christ did it all to present us to His Father. We do the things we do because of the mercy we have been shown not to earn it.

  78. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Gary, you are right when you say we are accountable to the law. “Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law.” Romans 3:31

    Then Paul proceeds to show us that the law shows our transgressions; it does not save us, it shows us we need to be saved. He says things that appear to contradict each other such as Romans 7:6-7

    But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

    What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”

    Paul keeps going on of course. He never gets to the stopping point because I don’t think there is a stopping point. We are accountable to the law but we can’t keep it and it goes and goes in a circle.

    Gary, I think you are a good and righteous person and that God loves you. Thank you for sharing some of your past. You have had a hard journey. You say we should not remain in our sinful ways just because we can’t help it and you are right. I think you are righteous, not because you are trying to be, but because you focus so much on our Lord God. And that is all any of us can do. That is what we must do. Keep our eyes focused on Jesus.

  79. poohpity says:

    When our eyes are opened to how much we live under grace and mercy that is what pushes the old leaves out and the new leaves begin to bud. It is the Lord God, as with the tree who removes the old leaves so that new ones take root so the tree isn’t damaged. If we take it upon ourselves to remove the old before their time it may damage how the tree naturally functions and who gets the credit for that we do, not God.

  80. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… this jealousy digging is an endlessly blessing and very revealing. Just reading the possiblities of jealousy’s nature in us as it can war against all that is right, or be as tenaciuos as Love.
    I found there is a likeness to wars and rumors of wars that reign in the minds of man, where corruted jealousy and its feeding frenzy continue.
    Perhaps the only cure for man with his jealousy is like the one I heard yesterday for the flu. “Put the patient in a sealed room and remove all the oxygen and you’ve Cured the Flu!”
    “Anger and jealousy can no more bear to lose sight of their objects than love.” George Elliot
    “Though jealousy is produced by love, as ashes by the fire, yet jealousy smoothers love as ashes smoother the flame.” Margaret of Navarre
    “Love is strong as death: jealousy is cruel as the grave.” Song of Solomon 8:6

  81. oneg2dblu says:

    Maru… sorry I gave you credit for another’s verses but you did add to them wisely. I see jealousy as defined in the dictionary as having a component of fear also.
    I see its root to be sin, and all sin to be self centered, self serving, and self defiling as well.
    Here is another take:” O! beware, my lord of jealousy
    It is the green-eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on.” Shakespeare

  82. yooperjack says:

    Pooh: In my last post I took a short cut because I’m writing to believers that know the Word. We sin but it is no longer imputed because we are no longer under the law. Romans 5:13.

    What I was trying to say was, many Christians believe if they get caught up in sin when something bad happens they will say: “God is punishing me”. It is Satan that they let in, he is wrecking their life, not God. And He puts that thought in their head to accuse God for your troubles. That’s a double whammy! God is waiting for us to see the light so He can restore the fellowship. He will never leave His chilren or turn His back on us.

  83. bill34sl says:

    The Letter that kills (2 Cor. 3:6) was actually a “signed contract” between ancient Israel and God. Like any other contract, it has to bring about valuable benefits when the terms are met, and detriments when they are breached. Blessings and life or curses and death. But since no man could satisfy the letter of that Law, the Law itself became synonymous with death. That’s why it kills. The Old Covenant as the Bible calls it, was exclusively for Israel only. No other nation was included in that set of agreements. It’s like a “marriage contract” between God(man) and Israel(wife). We know how the “wife” became adulterous, so that the covenant was invalidated by the “man”, but not forever.

  84. bill34sl says:

    When the Son of Man came to the world, He made a New Covenant for its entire inhabitants, not just the nation of Israel(now Jews). This is not the Old Covenant renewed. This is entirely a different one. All who decided to enter into this covenant are called Christians, after its originator, Jesus Christ, the Son of Man, also the Son of God. Collectively, they are called the Church. The letter of this New Covenant doesn’t kill but gives everlasting life. Israel(Jews) was given a chance to break free of her Old Letter that kills and enter into this New Letter that gives everlasting life, but she refused and stick with her old one.

  85. yooperjack says:

    Bless you Bill34sl you explained that better then I. Pooh: I hope you understand Bills post that is what I was trying to tell you a while back.

  86. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… I love your teaching heart, but I beleive the word actually says, Romans 8:39 where it speaks that nothing can “separate us from the LOVE of God that is in Christ Jesus.” Gary

  87. yooperjack says:

    Gary: read Bills post over and over and you will see the difference in Grace and Law, Old and New covenants. It’s all there in those two post. Brilliant post Bill.

  88. foreverblessed says:

    Are we accountable to the law? Jesus came, and He told us that He will not judge us. John 12:48-50 but the words He speaks will judge us. At the Last Day it will be Jesus’ words that will ring in the ears as people will then see their own judgment: All who believe in Jesus will be saved.
    John 3:14-15
    Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
    Other words will ring: “That what you have done to the least of them you have done unto Me.”
    But if we treat Jesus’ words as the Law, we will stay legalistic, it is hard to keep the Old Testament Laws, how harder to keep Jesus’ Words. That is exactly what the tree is talking about, the Life of Jesus must flow through us, that is Life. If we are yielded to Jesus, layd down our own lives in His hands, He is our Lord, then we are attached to Him and His Life flows through us.
    But that is sooo hard to catch for one who wants to live according to the Law. It took me so many years. What is that Life in Christ? I was suspicious, to the roots of my being, it sounds so easy, that cannot be true:
    New leaves, green and alive,
    We are now part of the tree of Life, not the Tree of good and evil. You either are part of Christ or you are not.
    Now I am so happy that finally that truth is beginning to be alive for me. Happy the man that lives in Christ, by faith in Him, drawing water from His well, day in day out.
    Thanks for all the verses of the trees, Psalm 1, Jer 17:9

  89. poohpity says:

    Sorry, Jack, but I believe it was not exclusive to Israel only but also to those who were before the nation of Israel was established and then it was for those aliens and foreigners that chose to follow God (i.e. Ruth, Rahab and others) not born through Jacob but that is another subject. :-)

  90. yooperjack says:

    Gary I have one last but important question for you. Say you knowingly sin, like lust in watching porn on your computor and didn’t confess it yet before going out in your car and dieing instantly in a wreck. In your way of thinking, would you go to Heaven or Hell would you still be saved or lost? Is that sin under the blood or under the curse of the law?

    This is not a trick question, I’m just interested in your way of thinking. I am not your judge either.

  91. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I kept myself away from this blog for awhile last year and only rejoined in discussions at the new year.
    Our life moves in seasons and a dry river can suddenly turn to flood and cause flowers and fruit to bloom in the desert places.
    Who would have thought that Mart’s simple observation of a “dead” tree would trigger such powerful postings from everyone. I am amazed at the quality of discussion here and the way you can visibly see God changing hearts and minds without there being arguments or judgments.
    I have just been reading the last section of comments, since yesterday, and have learned so much and have been blessed beyond measure, especially Bills explanation of the old & new covenants and Gary’s open heart.

    May everyone here have a blessed Sunday!


  92. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… every question is a trick question. :)
    I’ll play along and say of course my entire life is not built upon one act of watching porn, or any other single sin, either. I believe you would then want to ask about how many sins then? You see it is the only trap that, given by all who claim we can not ever not sin or even resist, to bring into this discussion. They know better, but they can’t resist! Nor will I be judged on that one act of unconfessed sin, but rather on my life’s entire journey. Especially, after receiving Christ, having tasted His Grace and Mercy, and knowing that my sin separates me from living my life as He would want, if I were to be following His direction, His teaching about how to live, and His Holy Spirit’s promptings. I have never heard His Spirit tell me to watch porn, or continue to conduct myself in my old confessed and forgiven sins, have you?
    I believe He says, Repent, not repeat!!!
    But, now that you have mentioned it… how can I, a helpless sinner, ever resist! LOL
    See my point?
    I not only cling to the Saviour that God has provided as my future Advocate, but also to the current Helper, the Holy Spirit which He also provides! His Spirit is now that which becomes our new law, living in us, if we receive it and obey! His Spirit knows, lives, and preaches by every word of God, and every word of the God’s Law. We only need to stay tuned in to it, and listen! For when we walk outside His promptings, we are walking in our own sin! His Conviction is how I know we are still under every Word and Law. Gary

  93. foreverblessed says:

    Bob, and I am so happy that you joined again. It is getting colder here now. Lovely, I do envy the warmth in warmer areas many time when I am not very warm, and have to get adjusted to the colder weather. But not jealous, because I have been in the tropical two years ago, and that was quite something. Water and wind make it bearable, but when you are not near the sea or swimming pool, boy. The heat.
    There’s lots in the bible about water, springs in the desert, if you live in a country where there is too much water most year round, you can hardly get the picture of how nice a spring of water is, for me it would be more like a warm fire wood, nice and cosy in a winter which does not get really cold, but almost too cold, and too wet.
    I am chatting away, Thanks Bill, I get what you mean, it is so hard to grasp that New Covenant, it is of the Spirit not of the letter. WHen we follow in the Spirit we will not only have fulfilled the letter of the law, but will have exceeded it by far, just as is heaven higher then the earth.
    Picture ourselves, how small our love is, our joy, our patience. It is nothing compared to all that God is. I have heard someone say: Picture all the love of all mothers for their children and multiply that by a million, and you still will not have the measure of God’s love for us.
    We need to get attached by faith to that Spring of Water, and let it run through our lives, all our thoughts filled with it, all our actions motivated by IT.
    Have a blessed day too, thankt Bob, I just now read your blessing (that’s how you can read and skip a sentence here and there).

    Allow me to go on a little further, there are those of us who have lived a wild life (immoral so to speak), and then came to be a christian. And there have been some of us who have lived a “righteous” (legalistic) life and then became a real christian. Yooperjack did some posts last topic, and I immediately understood what he was trying to say, but some who have led a wild life in their former life, didn’t get it. If I am correct, then I know Yooprjack oes not want to break any law at all, he just wants to follow Jesus with all his heart and mind and body and soul. He only knows that the law cannot guise him into a life full of love and joy and peace, and all, the law only tells you when you went wrong. We are so glad we live under grace, brought about by a precious Gift, so we take care we do not spoil it by continuing in sin. We have been freed of sin, how do we want to go back into it? The question makes no sense at all.
    But if you have been a wild person maybe that question is not dumb, I do not know, someone else must answer that.
    We go for the new life which brings new leaves, fresh and light green.

  94. yooperjack says:

    Gary: Your answer was too complicated for me to understand. I will never bug you about it again but if I forget remind me.LOL

    If we are guilty of one sin we are guilty of them all, that is a fact. It is impossible to comfess all of our sins or keep the law, that is a fact. God knew this, that is why Jesus had to die; I will not add or take away from His sacrifice by saying His death wasn’t enough, I must do my part by keeping the law. That would be ungrateful to say the least.

    Does the Spirit within me tell me to get drunk again (sin) after 42 years of being dry? No! But the those demons from Satan do when I’m down, I tell them are you stupid, and go back to that life of bondage? In the name of Jesus “depart from me right *now*.” They flee with their little tails between their legs.

  95. poohpity says:

    Rather than the reference to porn then dying whether you go to heaven or hell, how about talking down to another made in God’s image or being filled with pride or wanting want another has or being angry and not forgiving the person then getting in a car wreck and dying would one go to heaven or hell before the sin was confessed? Certainly the sin of lust may be worse of a sin than the others especially of those who have been around Christians all their lives.

  96. poohpity says:

    If I were to die unexpectedly with an unconfessed sin, I believe I would go to heaven because Jesus died and covered my sins even the unintentional ones as well as the ones done on purpose. It has to do with what He did not what I do.

  97. yooperjack says:

    Pick your sin, do one your guilty of all. I picked porn because I knew a fellow Christian that was ready to end it all because he was addicted to intenet porn. The shame was so unbearible for him, I’m glad he talked to the two of us brothers. It’s a big problem in todays Christian community.

  98. yooperjack says:

    Oh! we have one small part *repent* and *confess* with our mouth and believe in our heart that Jesus die, was buryed and the Father raised Him up out of that grave on the third day.

  99. poohpity says:

    Yes it is Jack and rather than making them feel ashamed of their behavior and shunning them, offer help because we all have areas that need work. It seems the one place where anyone can come for help is the place that judges and condemns. ODB for today spoke of that.

  100. oneg2dblu says:

    tooperjack… sorry for confusing you.
    1. You either listen to the Holy Spirit that lives in you, or you do not!
    2. You can not serve booth Satan and God at the same time.
    3. You can choose God, instead of your old sin nature!

    Have a Blessed Day, my brother.

  101. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… no put downs needed, no judging or shame based accusations either. In Christ, you can make better choices for God, than without him. If you can choose anything you desire, why choose to stay defeated by your old nature, when you no longer have to?
    Let’s keep it simple when it comes to sin, you can allow it to have you, but if you have your mind renewed, you “do not” have to serve sin!
    The same I AM who created all things lives in you, why would you then allow sin to overtake His Almighty Position in your life? I do not get the failure mentallity you serve up every time sin is talked about. Are we not to be more than conquerers in Christ? Gary

  102. Regina says:

    Good Evening All,

    Hope all is well with you.
    Steve, I LOVE the poem you shared titled, “Trees!” Thanks for sharing.

    Love to all…

  103. oneg2dblu says:

    The battle is in the mind, and if you are already defeated as living helplessly in your in nature, then Satan has won the battle! Are we saying that this God-given Spirit will allow Satan to rule over us? I think not! We can resist Evil whenever it presents itself, because we can use the I AM Power over Sin that God has given us, we are to be able to live righteously for Him,
    If we believe and obey His Word! Be not conformed to the world system, but by the renewing your mind, overcome it! Gary

  104. poohpity says:

    Gary, I have no idea what in the world you are talking about. I do not in anyway condone sin in any way, shape or form. I am not overcome with sin in my life nor does it rule my life. Could it be possible you do not understand what I am talking about, that has happened many, many times before.

  105. Regina says:

    Thought they used specially trained dogs to find truffles underneath certain trees, Steve. Didn’t know that people used pigs to find them. Can’t picture pigs handling a job like finding truffles. They don’t seem to be very smart animals.

  106. lovely says:

    gary, that’s a good conclusion throughout all these discussion..

  107. Regina says:

    You’re welcome, foreverblessed, and I’d gladly take some of your rain, Bob! Though we received a good amount of rain over a two-three day period (Mon.-Wed.) it was still not enough to bring us out of “drought” status. So, we’re definitely hoping for more!

    Love to all…

    Enjoyed a beautiful, sunny day in Texas (low 50’s).

  108. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    Yes Pigs are used to sniff out Truffles.
    The French have been using them for centuries.
    Pigs are highly intelegent and live in forests eating Acorns and anything else they can find.
    Truffles is one of their natural and favourite foods.


    Raining here again today but the temperature is a little cooler as we have cold air over us from the east(Siberia) and warm air coming in over Ireland.
    Usually causes snow to dump where the two meet.

  109. foreverblessed says:

    Yes Bob, the frost is approaching us. If it stays a for a while there is a sort of excitement about skating on ice. Water around everywhere.
    Today in church there was a sermon on living the life of faith, I thought it matched the former topic, of hanging on to the dead leaves, (fighting against sin) while it is much more effective to look out for the new leaves that are being formed in us when we are attached to Christ. It is much more effective to focus on Christ, then to focus on not to sin. Fill your heart with things from Jesus, instead of avoiding sin. Fall down before Jesus, praise Him and ask Him to fill you with His love, patience and whatever else you so need during the day.
    For example: in having a problem with being impatience you could either:
    -against impatience, I will not be impatient, focused on the dead leaves
    -or pray to God: Father, here I am, the impatience is comingup again in me, help me, I need your patience, it is one of your Gifts, please give this to me, for the sake of Jesus Christ in whom I believe, that is looking forwards to the new leaves, as little and as hidden as they are,
    (do not look down on the small things)

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