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Higher Learning for All

Before Jesus returned to his Father he challenged his disciples to teach others what he had taught them.

At this point, questions linger from our past conversations. Were Paul, Peter, James, and John faithful to that Great Commission, even though they seldom quoted their Teacher in their New Testament letters?

Seems to me that their New Testament letters speak for themselves. Individually and together they advance the ongoing drama of all that Jesus taught and did. Their letters reflect what Jesus had said about who he was; about why he had come; and about what he expected of those who wanted to be true to him—as they wait for his return.

The Scriptures would never be the same again; neither would the law of Moses; nor the institution of discipleship. Jesus had fulfilled the Scriptures; satisfied the legal demands of Mosaic law; and placed an ultimate claim on the goal of learning.

The demands of Scripture, the Law of Moses, and Jesus’ own conditions of discipleship would no longer disqualify or condemn anyone who wants to know the love of God in the face and scars of Christ.

Peter denying Jesus

Now Scripture is his story. The law of Moses becomes a chapter that helps us understand why we need him. And discipleship becomes our opportunity to use our failing grades as an opportunity to learn from the One who is able to do for us immeasurably more than we could ever ask or think.

So… the link I suspect… is that, just as the story of Jesus is told by all Scripture rather than by just his direct quotes, so… being accepted in his school …is not limited to those with passing grades, but is available to all who humbly take our place at his feet… wherever  we are…

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257 Responses to “Higher Learning for All”

  1. yooperjack says:

    Mart: Even a 6 year old child with cancer. She has no degrees nor is her mind cluttered with all sorts of Religious theories. She just knows Jesus loves her and has the kind of faith that can not be learned but comes from the heart.

    We too can surrender to this Jesus if we are willing to die to self.

  2. poohpity says:

    Amen, Mart!!

    From a fellow student.

  3. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Mart, humbly sit at the feet of Jesus, and listen quietly, and ask Him to fill my heart with what He puts on it.
    I have been praying what I should do, workwise, and nothing has come to anything, except the question from someone if I could visit lonely people in the old peoples home in our town. So that is what I do, I visited an old lady, and often she comes into mind when I am praying, so I pray for her a lot during the week, and the prayer is going right beyond the ceiling.
    So all these scriptures of forsaking all, and going into to the world and preach, I asked Jesus: what is it that you want me to do. And this simple thing came up. And I treasure it. Maybe I was making things so complicated, obeying Jesus is not that difficult, it seems to me, if we listen like a little child.

  4. In Him I Serve says:

    Thanks Mart for this awesome reminder.

    Ever since I surrendered to the ministry, I have faced battles from the enemy. The enemy wants to remind us what we have done wrong, but we must cling to His word. Then God spoke to my heart “The Bad Sinners make the Best Christians”. Now, my ministry motto goes as this; “Been there, done that,and have the scars and bruises to prove it, but let me share how Jesus made the difference.” Because Yeshua said, Been there, done that,and I have the Scars to prove it too.

    The Talmidim lives are a living testimony of how greatly Yeshua impacted their lives. Impression is a passing occurrence, but Impacting is life changing. I pray more will find Him and allow Him to change them, so many more will pick up their own cross and follow Him.

  5. poohpity says:

    In Him, had to look up Talmidim but glad I did. The teacher requires a student just as a student requires a teacher. I am so glad our Teacher is so very patient with us just as it would be nice if we were patient others.

  6. jimmygammalo says:

    “deep calleth unto deep”…..The hardest lessons Jesus teaches me are the deep heart lessons. Knowledge is easy to get, but wisdom is hard to grasp. Becoming a wise child of God isn’t a quick or easy road, but I am grateful that my eyes are being opened more and more each day.

  7. fadingman says:

    “…the story of Jesus is told by all Scripture rather than by just his direct quotes…” Very true. The practical teachings of Jesus were not something new. It was how God intended man to live from the beginning.

    God has always been concerned about the heart, because “out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander”. This is seen in many Old Testament passages such as Genesis 6:5, 8:21, Leviticus 19:17, Deuteronomy 4:29, 5:29, 6:5-6, Psalm 34:18, and Isaiah 29:13. The Law is just a measuring stick, focusing on the outward actions and mind. It’s a gauge on the spiritual condition of the inner man. If the heart is made right, then the mind and actions will follow.

    Jesus’ practical teaching were primarily on issues of the heart such as humility, love, etc. (Matthew 5:8,28, 9:4, 11:29, 12:34, 18:35). After Jesus ascended to the Father, the apostles continually wrote and spoke of heart issues (Acts 5:3-4, 7:51, 8:21, Romans 6:17, Ephesians 5:19, 6:5, 2 Thessalonions 3:5, 1 Timothy 1:5, Hebrews 4:12, James 3:14).

    Because the focus is on the heart, a change there will result in great diversity of outward actions. We won’t be merely following the gospel examples to the letter (i.e. literally washing one another’s feet, walking with someone an extra mile, etc). It will manifest itself in many new and different ways. This is seen in the epistles where instructions are given that aren’t mentioned in the gospels (i.e. Acts 15:19-20, 1 Corinthians 6:4, 1 Peter 5:5). Today our changed hearts will also manifest itself in ways different from the gospels.

  8. oneg2dblu says:

    fadingman… you have a gift, thanks for sharing it.
    Yes, in the Age of Grace we are not held to the letter of the Law, but we are also not given to remain as lawbreakers! We have the scriptures, every word of them, but then we also have different interpretations.
    We can also each have the heart of Christ in us and use it differently as the Spirit directs us, but that Spirit does not allow us to be Disobedient and Lawbreaking if it is directed by a Holy God who wants the best for us. Our Father who art in Heaven wants His Children to have His bread, not a snake that will bite him who holds it. Disobedience is that snake. Gary

  9. jacky says:

    It is liberating to know that nothing needs or can stop us from experiencing and reveling in the marvelous grace of our loving Lord. Not our culture or background, not our life experience, not the laws of moses, not even the conditions of discipleship as put forward by the Lord Himself.
    I imagine the woman with the demon-possessed child in Matt 15. The Lord kept advancing reasons why the woman does not deserve His help, but the woman wouldn’t let go. Her faith eventually led her to understand what the Lord was actually saying all along-she does not need to deserve His help, it is hers by faith (no other terms or conditions apply). When we come to the end of ourselves and our struggles with tied law, there’s grace to enable us live a life that please Him.
    In the law, I think he’s asking us, as he asked the disciples after the hard sayings of John 6, “Will ye also go away?”. And I think our fitting response should be, “Lord, to whom shall we go . . .”.

  10. Mikek says:


    At risk of re-stating my position once again, I am afraid that while I agree with your post in theory, the reality is that the church at large is not taking the opportunity to fulfill the call to discipleship. Apathy and indifference, doctrinal illiteracy and religion, grift and deception, pride and arrogance mark today’s assemblies. We celebrate our pastors and writers and treat them like rock stars. We spend more time watching television than we do studying our Bibles. We are cowards, afraid to say “thus saith the Lord” to an unbeliever and many seem willing to name the Name of Jesus but resemble Him very little and yet they readily misapply the name disciple to themselves so casually.

    There were many types of disciples that “followed Jesus” some for curiosity sake, some to a point and then left when it got uncomfortable and those who would die for Him. Discipleship is total commitment, nothing less will do. It is all or nothing. Clearly disciples are in the minority today, that is the reality.

    Have you taken up your cross? Renounced your life and self-interests? Have you yielded every area of your life to the Messiah? If you are a disciple, you are under the authority of Jesus, your life is not your own, it was bought with a price!

    Claiming to be a disciple and then turning back is apostasy so count the cost, weigh the decision carefully, it may not be for you. Don’t rush into it foolishly.


  11. poohpity says:

    “We”? Is that you and the mouse in your pocket?

  12. Mikek says:

    Saw through my pathetic attempt to identify with you?

    Won’t happen again.

  13. poohpity says:

    For someone who is such a stickler for pointing out the faults in others and about how bad we are at following the commands of Jesus, your heart seems to be showing. The main demand (command) that Jesus requires of us according to His Word was a sacrificial love as He showed to us; John 15:12,17 NLT. I did not realize that was pointing out faults or failures in others nor putting them down but to admit to our own faults, shortcomings and failures.

  14. poohpity says:

    My Teacher taught me that I have enough areas in my life that need work that I do not have time to look at those areas in the life of anyone else.

  15. BruceC says:

    Very good poohpity. The plank and the speck teaching!
    Let us focus on our own planks!

    Yesterday was my 61st birthday and the first anniversary of my deliverance from tobacco(cigarettes)by the power of the Lord!! All in the quiet of my bed while I was alone and had a fever from the flu. After praying to Him and confessing my weakness I awoke with no flu, no fever, and no desire for cigarettes any more!! His Name be praised!

    I have been reading the King James chronological Bible and it make the Word jump out to me like a history book. And it is!! It is HIStory! It is His story of His love for all and about His Cure for our malady; His grace and His mercy!

    We have a niece that has asked to come to church with us this morning. Pray that God use us and this opportunity to show her our Lord and may He touch and soften her heart.

    Soli Deo Gloria!

  16. SFDBWV says:

    In most peoples lives we begin as babies and learn the basics of how to survive and live in the new world we find ourselves in. Then for most we must learn different skills as we grow older through childhood into adulthood.

    If we go to a school we learn the easy things first then as we advance in the ability to grasp what we have been taught we go on to higher learning until we have achieved all that our school system can teach us.

    We then step out into life equipped with the basics of what we have been educated in order to become a member of the society we live in. However even though we have been through an education process, we find that we continue to learn that learning really never stops from birth to death.

    We have libraries filled with books from people over the ages that have already lived and learned what we have yet to experience and so these archives become a source of reference as well as a place to find stability.

    Our experience spiritually with the awakening and eventual rebirth into Christianity is not all that different. We have the written Word to fall back on when not sure and need reassurance but unlike our earthly school system our teacher has left us with a supernatural way of communicating continually with Him, His Holy Spirit.

    So we are now equipped with all we need in order to live out our lives and purposes according to His will, His will not ours.

    All the people of scripture lived out their lives and experiences good and bad in order to teach us a life lesson as well as further a plan of God and yes have their own life as well.

    They were who they were created to be, and none of us can be them. We can learn from them and when confronted with similar life problems use their successes and failures in order to proceed wisely. But their life was for them as our life is for us.

    Our purpose is our cross to bear and if we bear our purpose as we have learned from all of what He has taught us from Genesis through Revelation, we will see that we are following Him as well.

    Once we learn that we are who we are, unique and special to God, and that we are to be satisfied with that and not try to be something God has not called us to be, or anointed us or equipped us to be, we can find peace and quit straining at a gnats and swallowing camels.


  17. oneg2dblu says:

    BruceC… sorry I can’t join you in a pat on the back of belligerence? Why cheer on course speech and innuendo?
    Provoking even more pride and bravado? There is no healing in those words for me, they are given to enflame others and they are not of the Holy Spirit but of the poor choices of man. No pat on the back here from me. “You can quote me on that, and with out being accused of plagiarizing.” Even if some truth lies within the heart of the offender, they are still choosing to first offend. Why celebrate wrong behavior? Sorry I’m off on the right foot this morning, even though I’m left handed! Gary

  18. oneg2dblu says:

    Higher Learning for All?… That should mean that all posts apply if on topic, but I seem not to be able to express some thought here this morning. I’ll take it to the Lord for His approval, or His rejection. I’ll be back later and try again. Gary

  19. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart!

    You wrote:

    …”And discipleship becomes our opportunity to use our failing grades as an opportunity to learn from the One who is able to do for us immeasurably more than we could ever ask or think.”

    As I read your post, I immediately thought of the disciples as they began to speak out publicly. (Acts 4:13) The members of the Sanhedrin and the Temple cult began to say something like, “How can we suppress this maddening supernatural manifestation of God’s power in these persistent working-class people?” (my very loose paraphrase)

    As you say, “…Jesus’ own conditions of discipleship would no longer disqualify or condemn anyone who wants to know the love of God in the face and scars of Christ.”

    No degree of learning can contradict or confuse the eyewitness, friendship-based knowledge (higher knowledge) of Jesus that Peter, James and John possessed. And later Jesus found a use for Paul and poured out on him also the true knowledge and anointing of the Holy Spirit.

    I believe we can all hope in this!


  20. saled says:

    Although my education prepared me for my work as a teachers’ assistant, everyday I realize that I come far short of having what it takes to meet all the needs I am confronted with. We have wonderful methods of helping children who struggle with reading or math, but the needs are more than intellectual. They are spiritual, and it takes supernatural intervention to motivate both the children and their parents. Last week I saw part of a public broadcasting program that mentioned a teaching initiative in Tennessee that recognized this fact and was putting young teachers with this philosophy into the public schools. Anybody know any more about this?

    I imagine people in the medical profession as well realize the need for the supernatural. To me, this word supernatural refers to the Holy Spirit. As Christians, our failures and weaknesses are often so apparent to those around us. What if we really depended on the Holy Spirit to do miracles in the lives of those we work with? Those who know us would easily see it wasn’t by our power; it was supernatural. As for myself, I have to admit that I have lived my life and done my job largely in my own strength. It is just now as I am older that I realize God never expected me to do it on my own. I am so happy to take my place at Jesus feet and begin being a learner.

  21. yooperjack says:

    Jesus gave us commands or Jesus didn’t give us commands. We can’t have it both ways so that we can use it to our advantage; that would be like what some of our politians are doing.

  22. Mikek says:

    In principle, all Christians here agree on this – they agree with the Bible and what it says about discipleship – but when I actually spell it out here, many who post disown the idea. Is because they are embarrassed about what is taught explicitly in Scripture? They either do not want me to repeat what the Bible teaches, they want me to dilute it so much that nobody knows what the text means or dilute it to the point everyone feels comfortable with coming up short of the demands required by Jesus for discipleship. But I am not ashamed of what God teaches and requires, instead, I examine myself and see where I come up short of the demands and ensure I am indeed meeting the requirements.

    Did I want to initiate a discussion on discipleship that would hopefully lead to a reality-based assessment of the present conditions of todays’ assemblies in comparison to the biblical requirements, sure? Did it happen, no. The church is not there, the church isn’t making disciples in fulfillment of the Great Commission… maybe because you have to be a disciple in order to make a disciple?

    Unless there is a biblical basis for your objection to this approach, it is in itself what a teacher of mine once called “pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God.” Insofar as what I
    have written is biblical narrative, your disagreement was disappointing. You might find my approach offensive, but I find it much more offensive that you oppose the Bible’s assessment of the condition of todays’ church in comparison to the demands and requirements of discipleship and its instruction on how we ought to take steps to consider if we really want to become a disciple and the cost entailed therein.

    I will not upset the proverbial “apple cart” any longer.
    You folks have a great day now ya’ hear.


  23. florida7sun says:

    Mart, you wrote, “discipleship becomes our opportunity to use our failing grades as an opportunity to learn from the One who is able to do for us immeasurably more than we could ever ask or think.”

    Discipleship, as Steve expressed, is a process of growth. Beyond just reading the Word; application of our Lord’s precepts to daily living fortifies and strengthens us. If we remain in Him, we truly are His disciples.

    Max Lucado’s devotion this morning is an expression of higher learning in the life of Abraham and Isaac:

    ‘Abraham is about to sacrifice his only son — and what word does he use to describe the act? “Worship.” He’s headed up the mountain to place the biggest part of his life on an altar and he calls it “Worship.” When we think of worship we typically think of offering a song, or a prayer, or a gift. But when Abraham worshiped, he offered his son. He offered the biggest part of his life to God.’ – Genesis 22:5

    Like Abraham, we all have failed our Lord and Savior in ways too numerous to mention.

    Through study and application of the Living Word we come to realize that ALL we have is rightfully His: our lives, our children, our possessions, our hurts, our trials… every emotion; every expression.

    We are stewards here for a season to give Him honor and glory. Rather than focus on the flaws of others, His Word and His Spirit were given to us, as disciples, to mold us individually into the likeness of Jesus, who is the radiance of God’s glory. – Hebrews 1:3

    The Lord’s Prayer is a preamble for seeking His will on earth as it is in heaven. Therefore, let us love one another. – 1 Peter 4:8

  24. yooperjack says:

    MK Upseting apple carts is ok if it’s done without personal attacts. When we have more than one idea it helps us to study the Word even more. Like when Poohpity wrote Jesus stripes where for healing sin not flesh; I never ever heard that before. My wife has. I don’t agree with Poohpity but will give it some thought.

    MK this is what makes a blog interesting.

  25. yooperjack says:

    MK I like people that are not afraid to think for them selves, then speak out. When you are a member of one of those Sunday go meeting clubs you lose the right to think for yourself and don’t you dare speak against the teaching of the club.

  26. poohpity says:

    Posted this on the other topic not that it is that important.

    The thing that most impresses me about our Teacher was humility. Being perfect Himself did not demand that of those He taught. Even knowing that one would betray Him, one would deny Him and one doubted, He loved them all. He did not judge He restored, saved, died, justified, and sanctified, not because of their behavior but because of who He was. Higher learning was getting our eyes off of ourselves and unto Him. What he taught, He lived. Even though the knowledge and wisdom of the universe was held in His heart, mind and soul, He never forced anyone to listen to Him or Love Him.

    The only people He seemed to confront were those who felt that they were better than others and knew more than others. He admired those who were able to have an honest estimate of their selves and knew they needed a Savior.

    Jesus being God in flesh laid down all that would elevate Himself above all mankind and all creation to walk along side it, die for it, forgive it and sacrificially love it. He asked us to do the same except for to die for it (humanity) because there was only one Lamb without defect and sin that could be the atonement for all that is wrong in us. That one spotless Lamb did not point out the sin of mankind but took that sin upon His shoulders and took the punishment for it.

    So tell me who do we think we are to point out the sin and failures in others when our teacher taught us a higher way of doing things?

  27. poohpity says:

    Gary, Bruce was not agreeing with me, he knew that was a paraphrase from the bible in Matt 7:1-4 NIV.

  28. abraham99 says:

    Mikek…..I agree with both your postings. In Luke 14:22 adresses his desciples and goes on re the conditions in 25-33. We have to categorically follow Him unreservedly with absoluteness. We cannot afford to become a pillar of salt.

  29. poohpity says:

    Jack a little FYI, I asked for the verses for the commands of Jesus that they said they were being obedient to. I was requesting information to learn, not to use against anyone or to make myself look good or more knowledgeable but in seeking the truth. When someone tells me they are being obedient to Christ yet do not do what they are preaching from the mountain tops, I question that. I also question many who say they are teachers, not by putting them down but by comparing what they say to what it says in scripture and hopefully others do the same. That is why it is so important to know the scriptures for yourself. We can not trust others to lead us, many have other agendas so seek the truth for yourself in the Word.

  30. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: Now I understand where you’re coming from. And AMEN on the study for yourself thing and not to trust others. Unless you lived with them for a while and even then trust but verify.

  31. Mikek says:

    It is true that Christ was consistently wise in His conduct and conversation, and that He always spoke with grace and salt, and that He always maintained an attitude that was pleasing to God; a teacher without equal. But I here submit now that those who have weakened the definition of discipleship have imposed upon Scripture their own anti-biblical definitions of this word. Normally, I would plead with them to stop defying the Word of God, and to stop condemning those who seek to follow it, but instead adopt a biblical method and tone in proclaiming and defending the Gospel against unbelievers and stop taking issue with a fellow believer who asks that you seriously consider what he is attempting to share with you.

    I have no agenda whatsoever, nothing to defend, nothing to advance. Nothing at all. I put forward a weak attempt to offer a word or two that perhaps, by chance, someone somewhere may read and consider that they want to become a disciple and follow Jesus but before they do, they count the cost.

    Because some here have imposed their own definition of this word on Scripture, they have created for themselves theological problems and contradictions unnecessarily. On the other hand, I have enough reverence for God to let the Scripture interpret itself.

    Never apologize for what the Bible clearly teaches.

    I interrupted a rather peaceful group, for that I of all people, apologize. For bringing a dose of reality to this group however, I do not apologize.

    However, because I offended many, I will leave with the hope that someone, somewhere forsakes all and begins a wonderful journey and leaves religion behind.



  32. foreverblessed says:

    What Steve wrote, that we grow as a disciple, like a child in playground, and slowly on to higher grounds that the Spirit is showing us, and we follow, each his/her own path, but we follow Jesus, and His path was that of humility.
    I agree Mikek that we all can improve much and much. But Jesus is not rubbing that in our face, and by writing this I might suggest you do this, You might be totally right, but the tone in which you do it, sorry, that pushes people away from what you want to convey.
    Think of what Jesus must have felt, having struggles in the Garden, and comes back and he finds them asleep. He had the right to be upset about them, He does say: why do you fall asleep, but doesn’t nag about it, He immediately shows them how to proceed further along the road. Get up, and pray Luke 22:45,46

    On humility, lately I found out that the John 13 chapter on washing each others’ feet is not primarily about serving each other, (there can be much superiority in serving) but most of all about a spirit of humility towards each other. Jesus does not want us to have a spirit of superiority towards anybody at all. That is something I am pondering on now. Thinking about times when I wanted to help another, often I must admit I felt superior: like I have gone through that myself I know how you feel I know how to get out of it, just follow Jesus.

    (narrouwp.s I agree with you on what you wrote that our greatest struggle is with our old self, what you wrote in the last topic on Februari 19, 9.48 am)

  33. foreverblessed says:

    O sorry Mikek, to hear that, you leave too soon. Who are you acutally saying is watering down the discipleship overhere? I do not see that any of us is doing that. When I left religion 15 years ago I was quite adament that everybody should do that, now I see there is wisdom and mildness in it, God is so much more patient, and wise in how to lead people. Make it a positive encouragement. Because, we all fall short in being like Jesus a million miles away from it, but we are in Jesus, and have started to walk with Him. I got the impression is on his/her way. Encourage each other to forsake all (spiritually speaking), and follow Him.

  34. foreverblessed says:

    …I got the impression everybody over here is on their way in walking behind Jesus, some talk a lot about obeying, some talk a lot about faith, (which I do, as I have been so busy trying to obey, like the old brother in the story of the son who was lost,always busy to obey. I was soooo happy to find out that God wants a relation with Him, BEING in Jesus, Col 1:27 that is the real mystery, and when we are in Him we WILL have fruits, when we are attached to the vine, the sap from the vine will flow through us, and will develop fruit, the point of our work is to keep the old self out of the way, it will obstruct, so that is the work I found out I have to do, that is the Sabbath: rest from your own work, Hebrew 4:10 so that His work will work in me) then I am His disciple.
    Yes, Thank God. Col 1:28, 29

  35. yooperjack says:

    MK: When you say stuff like “count the cost” that’s the flesh talking. When we serve someone we love there is no cost involved. Remember, we have a renewed spirit, heart and the Holy Spirit working in us. This is no game we’re playing in this new life. We have to renew our mind by studing the Word and crusify that flesh daily, or we start thinking what we are doing for Jesus is costing us something. Galtians 2:20. Jesus did it all He payed it all in full there is no *cost* to consider.

    Maybe an unbeliever should consider the cost before becomeing a believer. But once we commit to Christ He will take over our lives we’re just along for the ride.

  36. yooperjack says:

    We are bought and payed for we are no longer in charge of our livies the sooner we accept that the happyer we’ll be. I wander if some people are even saved? The way they act and talk makes me wonder but not judge.

  37. narrowpathseeker says:

    MK. I do not think you interupted a “peaceful” group at all. I could be wrong but I have picked up on quite a bit of “self” struggles here lately. I have resisted the temptation to respond to much that I thought was wrong as not to join in with offending for offending. I recognize the “self” syndrome because I’ve been there often enough to recognize it almost immediately. I don’t think you were any more offensive than a few others have been the past few days. May we ALL recognize any of our own negative contributions if that be the case and Peace to all. Please don’t leave. I am blessed by many of the comments made here including many of yours.

  38. oneg2dblu says:

    MikeK… be a brother and stay the course if you can, even through the rougher edges we must at times weather, there comes a place of learning.
    Who are we here but our opinions shared, good, bad, and indifferent at times to others, but all working out our common convictions and calling. Personality clashes are not exempt among us. We need every voice to make this chorus really sing! Yours included! Gary

  39. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: When you say: “I have resisted the temptation to respond—” and then don’t respond; it’s like my wife telling me she has a secret but she’s not going to tell me what it is. That stuff gets me in the flesh real fast. LOL

    In reality you have responded; “translation” “I don’t like when people offend one another” “Right?” Then say it. I for one will understand and not be offended.

  40. yooperjack says:

    AMEN Gary, you should write poems you have a gift brother.

  41. poohpity says:

    If I have offended anyone please know that it is alright to bring to my attention because I know that there are many areas that still need work in my life. If no one says anything and I continue then how will I be able to change or even ask for the forgiveness due to the offended person. I promise I will not attack verbally in defense of a wrong behavior and will accept it as a gift and learn from it.

  42. narrowpathseeker says:

    Yooper, I have not responded in anger to posts that sounded offensively “self” oriented, baited and just plain rude. I was “responding” to MK’s pleading guilty to offending and merely pointed out that he did not interupt a “peaceful group” and he wasn’t alone if he DID offend someone.

  43. yooperjack says:

    I sometimes find that when people are offended it’s because they’re under conviction.

    Narrow: Rude is a very strong word for a blog. It is a put down to the uneducated simple minded folks.

    Now who is the offensive one? LOL

  44. narrowpathseeker says:

    I believe if we spend time with God and examine ourselves daily, that He will show each of us where we need to make amends. I think that an overall understated generalization of some offense gives us each the opportunity to recognize and repent without an exhibition.

  45. narrowpathseeker says:

    Sorry Yooper, I’m not biting.

  46. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: OKKKKKK!!!!!! It sure is fun trying. LOL LOL LOL

    These long winters sure get boring.

  47. poohpity says:

    I believe that even though the disciples did not quote Jesus in the New Testament epistles they did quote Him by what they lived. They showed grace as they taught their up and coming new believers what a Godly life looks like by being caring, consistent, cooperative, considerate and courageous.

    Paul pointed out in Philippians 2:21 NLT how the other people who were teaching had other motives for what they were doing and then went on to focus those around him on Jesus, Philippians 3:7-11 NLT. He also admitted that he was not perfect and hasn’t learned all there is to learn which made people look to Christ and not him. Phil 3:12 NLT

  48. foreverblessed says:

    Maybe this devotion is on topic:
    Februari 7 The Way of Progress

    Impress upon all that growth is one of the laws of My Kingdom.

    However long your span of life on earth, it can never be too long for growth and progress.

    Be ever seeking My Will for you. Not a new religion, nor the right religion, but — My Will. Then all will be well and growth will follow.

    God at eventide by twolisteners
    you can find it on internet that goes with twolisteners with a dot and an org.

  49. SFDBWV says:

    When I was a young adult Christian I heard Sunday school teachers as well as Preachers from the pulpit make statements that not only did not resonate with my Spirit but was down right offensive to the very basics of what I had come to believe. I was upset.

    I went to the Bible on each occasion and began my own private study of the matter in order to make certain of what was being said. The matter would get me up early and put me to bed late, I was continuously in the Word writing notes and filling tablets with quotes from Scripture.

    Then somewhere in the searching for the *truth* of the matter as my answers become obvious to me it no longer mattered to me to prove any thing to someone else. I was no longer upset and in fact at peace.

    I was being taught or confirmed and on each occasion I would hear from another believer that they too had did the same and came to the same conclusions. The Holy Spirit always provides conformation to His Word.

    In the beginning Jesus gave special ability to His *pupils* so as to extend His authority through them, they became *Apostles* and continued in that capacity until their deaths. Yet when the Holy Spirit came, an entire *new* relationship entered the world of man; those who would accept Jesus as the Christ were given that awesome opportunity to have God’s Spirit with them always.

    In the OT God’s Spirit came upon the men He chose. One such man was Samson. Samson’s gift to us is showing us what immature power looks like. Samson had a great opportunity from God but his immature attitude squandered the gift.

    God will empower us to do His will, but we must behave as adults and relate the wisdom of scripture to every circumstance God puts in our path when we have power to either influence or alter.

    If you find yourself at odds with another scripturally do not get angry and rail against the wind, rather be reminded of Psalm 39: 1-13; then when you have calmed down search the matter through scripture and prayer and meditation.

    When your answer comes it will no longer matter to you to prove any thing to another as it is the job of the Holy Spirit’s to convict a heart not ours.

    We escaped this last winter storm, it went south of us. Winters power is fading and the hope of spring is just around the bend.


  50. oneg2dblu says:

    narrowpathseeker… I like your simplicity of words,
    “Repent without exhibition.” It is akin to praying in the closet. Good work! It means you are talking to the Lord directly, no fanfare, no soapbox, and no loudspeaker!
    It is like whispering to a lover saying only what you desire them to hear, it is to me the ultimate intimacy, and most effective. Like an embrace without words, a holding of the hand is not done from a distance, or with a closed flailing fist. What touched me the most this morning in the ODB reading were these words in Psalm 34:10b saying: “Those who seek the Lord lack no good thing.” I like the “work ethic involved” in seeking, where others prefer the stillness in the rest of trusting, or the fullness found in their fearing. I know His rest, and I know His fear, but I’m also like a lover, seeking Him as well. Gary

  51. SFDBWV says:

    For those of you who like poetry; here is a little one heard before in our little gathering I will share with all today.

    The Voice of God
    Lewis I. Newman

    “I sought to hear the voice of God, and climbed the topmost steeple.
    But God declared: “Go down again, I dwell among the people.”


  52. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed… “The frustration of the Divine Plan is man’s tragedy.” Thank you for sharing. :)

  53. narrowpathseeker says:

    I’m sorry that some of you have had a tough Winter. Last year Winter here in CT was one of the worst I can remember and this year is one of the mildest. I don’t know that I will appreciate Spring as much as last year or as much as you guys that actually had a Winter. However, I am going to work at it so (hopefully)I don’t have to learn to appreciate Spring the hard way. LOL.

  54. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, I LOVE that poem! Thank you.

    Gary, I like your “understanding” as well. My memory is REALLY bad sometimes, but even though I don’t rememeber WHAT it was that you wrote that moved me to joyful tears, I DO remember that it was you that wrote it. I guess I should comment immediately but sometimes there are several moving comments, so I just generalize the appreciation for all.

  55. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: We also have a mild winter, temp. in the 30s and only 125 inchs of snow. The thing is they are so long from mid oct. to mid april.

    Didn’t mean to pull your chain last night but I still get devilish now and then when I get bord. LOL

  56. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… Every time we go to our church to find the Lord, our pastor is always trying to get us to see our church should be without its walls, for we leave too many behind and alone in the streets.
    I realized today, that without walls, even that steeple can not stand in our way! Thanks for completing that lesson. Gary

  57. BruceC says:


    Is there something I said that offended you? If so I wish you would clarify as your remark after my post left me confused.

    Soli Deo Gloria!

  58. narrowpathseeker says:

    Yooper…..ten feet of snow is a mild Winter?!! We haven’t had a collective 7 inches as yet!! We probably had about ten feet last year which I thought was one of the worst Winters we have had…….AND…. you are forgiven..of course….yankin’ don’t rile me much as I don’t flush that easily anymore…lol

  59. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: We average 250 inches a year. Go to pasty.net and click the pictures and find the snow gage; we had almost 400 inches one year. The big thing this year is the temperature. If this is global warming bring it on.

  60. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: It will be faster to search: “The Keweenaw Snow Thermomerter” to find that snow gage.

  61. poohpity says:

    Mike, I have understood the point that you were making about the difference in accepting Christ and then what follows as in being a disciple. I agree that many lives look the same as they did before except now they profess the Lord with their mouths. There is a cost to relationships, families and every other area in life that not many understand. Some folks want to hold on to life as it is and then bring Christ into it rather than having Christ and bringing everything else under Him. I think there is a lot of sitting on the fence or decision making when it comes to whether one makes the decision to come after Christ after accepting Christ as savior.

  62. poohpity says:

    I was also thinking that that does not include going around and telling people how wrong they are. If we do follow the Lords’ example and trust Him in the humble approach, He will end up showing what is meant by being a disciple and that will not ruin our own testimony in the meantime but show the understanding that God’s is able to still touch other people hearts who are ready and willing to listen.

  63. narrowpathseeker says:

    Yooper. I think Winter is one of my least favorite seasons and even more so now since I can no longer skate or sled without fear of falling and breaking bones. I can’t imagine living through one of your or Steve’s Winters. I sure am glad that I got Planted here.

  64. foreverblessed says:

    Bruce, congratulations with your birthday, and with your 10 years of deliverance you can celebrate! Thank God for His mercies! I really do enjoy with you.
    Come on Gary, rejoice with the son that has come back, Luke 15:28,32 instead of musing about the fact that he had made mistakes in the first place, (just a metaphore used here as saying starting to smoke is like being a squandrel is a bit hard). What would God be like if He did that to all of us. What a hell of a life He must have.
    It say is Isaiah that we have like sheep all gone astray, each in his own way.
    What is the Higher way? Jesus took up the mess we made:
    Isaiah 53:6

  65. foreverblessed says:

    isoory, it is written in Isaiah that we have all gone astray, each in his own way. Isaiah 53:6

  66. foreverblessed says:

    isoory should be Sorry, what a mess I make…

  67. poohpity says:

    LOL, we could start a mess makers club. ;-)

  68. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: I believe Jesus covered that thing about relationships when He said: “Who is my family…” There is no cost in Christ, only in the carnal man. We are still in this world but not of it. That means it’s all about Him and His will not our needs and our will. If a person is not willing to forsake all for Christ don’t join the movement. It’s not a little bit Christian and a little bit of world it’s one or the other. You’re in or you’re out. The Christian life style only works when we totally surrender. If we serve Christ nothing else matters.

    The sinner has to count the cost because in many cases people loose all their friends, families and some their livies to serve Christ. Once you commit to Christ there is no longer a cost, you are bought and paid for.

    I don’t want Jesus to tell me: “Depart from me I never knew you”.

  69. narrowpathseeker says:

    Bruce, I also applaud your victory over the tabacco opponent. I too quit after almost 50 years of it and and with as many failures(50 or more) in quitting. In my day smoking was not only acceptable but “the thing to do”!! Ads featuring the top athletes smoking some particular brand was the norm and there were ashtrays in every doctors office and even on pastors’ desks. I smoked in the hospital bed where I fed my newborn babies and just about anywhere we chose to smoke was more than acceptable. Now smoking is considered “sin”. Back then it wasn’t! Many other facets of what sin is and what it isn’t have changed over the years. After awhile I came to look at smoking as one of those “gnats” that we strain out while swallowing a camel. BUT, when the price went up to almost $4 a pack(now almost $9!!) I started seeing it as the camel. The one thing I was pretty sure of either way was that it took backseat to the bitterness, hatred, and jealousy that often enveloped me.

  70. poohpity says:

    Jack, I think what some do not understand is that people and how close they choose to walk with the Lord is not our business that is between them and God. We are to go fishing for the souls of men and point them to be disciples of Jesus, not to follow us. Their response after we tell them about the Lord is between them and God. It seems to happen more than not we do not understand and trust in the capabilities of God to capture a persons heart, soul and mind, many begin to think it is their business and responsibility to help them along and God does not need our help in that area. Jesus taught us what our job is but the line gets crossed when we begin to tell people they are not doing it right.

  71. poohpity says:

    If a person really cares what God thinks they will ask Him and will pursue Him. We do our part by sharing what He has done in our lives and what He can do in their lives and live that out and leave the rest to God. What He does in a persons life is far better than anything we can attempt to do because God works with the whole person their past, present and future and more important than anything else does it with grace and mercy. Wouldn’t it be nice if we just held hands with each others walking up the path to higher learning together realizing how great is our God and how level the ground is at the foot of the Cross.

  72. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: This is what discipleship is all about, “teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you” that’s what Jesus said, not you or I. We can’t just catch the fish then through them back into the world. That would be like having a baby and say God will provide for you, you’re on your own. Somebody has to teach that new Christian this is not a game this is how Jesus wants us to live. We don’t have to clean the fish the Holy Spirit will do that. But we need to disciple them.

    Sinners almost always count the cost before they totally surrender. I did. If we push too hard or try to clean them up we run the risk of driving them away. Churches should have disciplining classes; some are promoting home disciplining groups.

    Are we getting closer to understanding this topic or are we causing confusion? I think we both said the same thing but in a different way.

  73. poohpity says:

    Jack that brings us back to that original question of “what are the commands of Jesus?”. Did He want us to go back to the law of Moses? Or was His teaching a higher learning experience since Jesus came to fulfill and not abolish the Law; Matthew 5:17 NIV. That was the reason behind me asking that, to get us to think. If Jesus was the only One who could live the letter of the law do you really think He would go back and ask us to live under it again? Asking us to do the impossible that lead us to define what sin is. Looking through the gospels for the commands of Jesus will bring to light things that are above our understanding and ability to do with out the Holy Spirit. Like loving enemies, do good to those who treat you badly, think of others more highly than yourself, do not judge or criticize, do not retaliate, give when someone asks for something and the list goes on.

  74. poohpity says:

    When we really understand the topic we will find that until we go home to be with the Lord we will be in the process of higher learning and not fully understanding or able to practice it with out flaws or failures along the way.

  75. poohpity says:

    Jack, if you think about it the disciples learned under Jesus and if we believe that He still lives would it not be wise to also point others to learn under Him as well while reading and studying the scriptures. I trust God’s ability to open our eyes and hearts to what is written. People have troubles when they do not search the Scriptures for themselves but listen to our fellow travelers who are still learning too.

  76. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: Jesus is our goal setter, like in a dog race the dogs chase the rabbit. If we keep our eyes on Jesus in this race we will in time reach the finish line but if we take our eyes off of Him we will be run over with the cares of this world and other people.

    The dogs never catch the rabbit but they all make it to the finnish line. No one can be like Jesus but His example is our goal in this life. You’ll never fail till you stop trying.

    We’ll never hit the target if don’t shoot some arrows. Practice makes perfection.

  77. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: That is why I put no man or woman on a pedistal because I do not know their heart. I trust the Bible, everything else is commintary, trust but verify.

  78. phpatato says:

    Mk I understood completely what you were saying. There are several ways at looking at discipleship and you were merely touching on one aspect of it. I didn’t find you offensive at all. I sometimes wonder if people don’t open their minds enough to see what someone is trying to say. It’s like they are looking down a funnel with the wide end at their eye. If they would simply turn the funnel around and put the smaller end at the eye, they will find that the wide end will open up to show a bigger picture. But if they prefer the feel of the wide end against the eye, it is hoped that they will ponder and pray about what was “trying to be said”, before making a hasty retort. One of my Dad’s favourite quotes is: None is so blind as he who WILL NOT see.

    There is a cost to discipleship as Mk has pointed out. In the broadest sense of the word discipleship is to follow or learn of Jesus Christ. In the narrowest, it is to become FULLY committed (as I believe MK was referring to) to follow Him; to learn from Him, through the promptings of the Holy Spirit, in a life of self-denial and obedience. It is a lifelong journey where those in the body of Christ will be at different points along the way. However, in the end, our destination will be the same. With our names recorded in the Lamb’s Book of Life, we will be together singing praises and worshipping our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    But until then…. my heart will go on singing,
    Until then with joy I’ll carry on,
    Until the day my eyes behold the city,
    Until the day God calls me home.

  79. yooperjack says:

    Phpotato: Do you mean like the Pastor of the Church is one kind of Disciple. And a person that sleeps through his sermons is another kind of Disciple. Saved but not commited. Born again but carnal. That don’t compute in my way of thinking. And I will not let my mind open to stinking thinking. Count the cost before you get saved not after. Jesus wants all of you not just what you are willing to give Him.

  80. yooperjack says:

    We may all be at different levels of growth but we all need to be at the same level of (total commitment.)

  81. foreverblessed says:

    Yooperjack, that is right, Jesus wants all of us. But do you remember how Jesus worked at you to get to that point?
    To think back on it, how patient God was with me. How slowly He proceeded to get to my heart, that makes me humble, and I should do the same with my fellow man in church. Jesus will not push us, He is gentle. He wants us to come freely to Him, and with a heart full of joy.
    The church is full of people in all different kind of stages, and we better be gentle and humble and remember our own slow state but yet sure with a little bit of progress.
    And the way we often treat our fellow man in church, we demand this and that, total surrender, afcourse, that is what we have to do, but do we remember how long it took before we surrendered and asked Jesus to be King of our heart? That we said: Jesus You are My Lord, hereby I surrender all to you. Forgive all my sins and fill me with Your Grace because of Jesus’ work on the Cross.
    I am in a music group, and the leader is demanding a lot. Being on time, demanding to practice a lot, demanding to be part of many activities. The demanding is the main point. I see it clearly, and I see myself having done that as a mother at home with kids and a husband who were lousy in helping in household chores. What a heavy load it was. How to stay cheerful, happy a good christian, born again, with people around you who walk the edges. I failed many times, but I kept praying to God, to help me be a patient person, I asked for His love to be in me, as I was irritated by their behaviour.
    Now I look at the praise leader, and pray for him, Lord fill him with patience, wisdom to encourage people, to activate them in a lovng way. I sort of try to stand behind him spiritually speaking: Go on, do not give up, ask for more love. Be more of an encouager. Even if you want to fire them all, out of the band, out of the church, come back when you are totally surrended to Jesus. How would that be? That is not our job, that is the work of the Holy Spirit. We only can put people out when they are in blatant sin, like living with the wife of their father, or is a drunkard, 1 Corinthians 5:1-12
    But not when they are sleeping through services, no, then we are to pray for them, they are in our area, and if we are more closely connected to Jesus we are of use to the Holy Spirit to get to their heart.
    Let’s be encouragers to total surrender to Jesus.

  82. yooperjack says:

    Foreverblessed: I didn’t say anything about kicking people out of the Church or even looking down on them.

    Somebody out there knows what I’m talking about maybe they can explain it better than I. I don’t want to go over it again.

    It took me 11 years to total surrender with many scars. If I would have been discipled instead of preached at it may have saved me years of grief.

  83. foreverblessed says:

    OK, sorry for having thought that, I was a bit supprised really what you wrote at 3.28 pm.
    It took me 30 years, and I do not think it would have been faster if I was pointed at a living relation with Jesus in my church, it was my own heart that did not surrender. I thought the bible and all the laws and good advice and wisdom in it would be my guide. I cannot blame anybody but myself, and I am so thankful that God is patient, and ever knocking at our door, but He does it in a humble way, not wanting to break the door, and come in violantly. So we do agree on that. Thank God.
    Jesus said: be perfect as I am perfect.
    We should have high standards, but we are only perfect IN Jesus, the more we want to be close to Him the more we can be perfect in Him. So I am wanting to be close to Jesus, and I hope everybody here is too.
    Jesus, come, fill our hearts, show us what is wrong in us still, that we may repent of it, and have more room for You. Thank you for your mercy because of Christ.
    That is my bedtime prayer for all of us, (it is almost 11 now).

  84. phpatato says:

    Yooper you said: Count the cost before you get saved not after.

    May I ask you, when you were at the point of surrendering your life to Christ, as in wanting to be born again, did you first stop and ask yourself “Gee what is this going to cost me anyway? Am I willing or even able to pay that price while I lie here crying in the darkest moment of my life trying to get my head out of the mud” By what you posted, I have to assume you did. I have to question then, was there a list on a sheet of paper in your hand telling you the exact cost or did you study beforehand what the cost was so that you would be prepared once your darkest moment came?

    Your comment can open up the debate again of Once Saved Always Saved. One is able to be born again and not be a fully committed disciple should they keep a deaf ear to the Holy Spirit. One is able to be born again and walk that slippery slope of being backslidden. Their progress forward to becoming more Christ-like will be indicated by these.

  85. yooperjack says:

    Phpotato: Does a drunk know the cost of going on the wagon? Does a smoker know what stoping means. Then of course a sinner knows the cost of giving up their carnal life style. The reasons for doing so may be different but they all know what they’re doing isn’t working for them. Many go off and on the wagon with their Christian life. Church people say: “They never were saved in the first place.” As if that will help them? That’s why I say total commitment is the only way to go. Discipleship has nothing to do with salvation, get that out of your head or you’ll go crazy. Discipleship has to do with growth.

  86. oneg2dblu says:

    Sometimes we lead each other, lean on each other, and some times we push each other around. It is all good because we are learning together. Patience would be nice, and only good words would be nice, but we have to be real here.
    We are flawed, and our actions sometimes show the flaws.
    Most of us can forgive others, and the rest of us are still working on it. One can not disobediently follow His command, “Follow Me!” Christ leads we follow.
    Yes, the bible is our guide book it is the expressed mind of God leading us! Gary

  87. remarutho says:

    Mart –

    You wrote:

    “…just as the story of Jesus is told by all Scripture rather than by just his direct quotes, so… being accepted in his school …is not limited to those with passing grades, but is available to all who humbly take our place at his feet…”

    The law of Moses Discipleship
    Knowledge of Christ Exposure of our sin

    The apostle Paul wrote to the church in Galatia (Galatians 3:21, 22) that faith in Jesus Christ brings what the Lord promised through the prophet Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:33, 34).

    The presence of God the Holy Spirit transforms us, supplying wisdom and knowledge. As you say, study of the whole Bible brings a richer and deeper relationship with the Savior.


  88. remarutho says:

    The diagram I made does not show clearly in the format. I hope to say:

    The law of Moses is to Exposure of our sin as
    Discipleship is to Knowledge of Christ

    Hope this is clearer!

  89. poohpity says:

    Amen Maru!!

  90. phpatato says:

    Yooper As a young girl, I went forward to give my life to Christ during an alter call that was given by the pastor of the small church my family attended. I was 11 years old. I can tell you with certainty that I did not know beforehand what the cost was to becoming a committed disciple. At that time, all I did know was that I was a sinner in God’s eyes, even in my young and uneventful life, and in order to spend my life eternally in heaven with Jesus, I had to ask Him into my heart. It would be AFTER I was saved that I found out the cost, and that was when I was ridiculed and labelled as an “uncool geek” because I didn’t wear what the most popular girls in school wore and I didn’t care to join in on the doobie that was being passed around.

    We are in agreement that discipleship has to do with growing and that the ultimate goal is to become more Christ-like. But as I said in the previous topic, man insists on dissecting and redefining words for his sake and the results of that are debates which lead to confusion and division which in turn has caused unnecessary harm in the Church. And in the case of the words disciple/discipleship MK’s post of February 19, 2012 at 4:43 pm is proof. There was also the Lordship Salvation controversy which revolved around those very words.

  91. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends!

    When the Lord spoke to Ananias of Damascus — and mentioned Saul of Tarsus – Ananias reminded God how much evil Saul had done to the saints in Jerusalem. (Acts 9:13, 14) But the Lord corrected his servant Ananias. (Acts 9:15, 16)

    Saul thought he had counted the cost of following the God of Israel!

    Mikek, you wrote:
    “Claiming to be a disciple and then turning back is apostasy so count the cost, weigh the decision carefully, it may not be for you. Don’t rush into it foolishly.”

    There was no way for the apostle Paul to know what was up the (Roman) road for him! He learned as he went on and on in the gospel enterprise what it meant to be a disciple of Jesus. He took on the Gentile world as well as the Roman authority – add to that the hatred of the Jews. The temple leaders rightly called him apostate. By Roman religious standards, he was an atheist. But, what would we do without him today?


  92. SFDBWV says:

    My first wife refused to attend church with me and even after Matthew was born would not go with he and I. She only came when we christened him.

    She consciously did not want to take up a life of Christianity and have to face her sin as well as give it up.

    She knew that once she crossed that line what the cost to her old lifestyle would be.

    In itself that is a strange kind of faith, an intellectual faith. Knowing the cost, kept her from *learning the truth*.

    It wasn’t until she was forced to accept her father’s death and the prospect of losing the things in her life that had slowly become important to her that she finally gave in and looked to Christ for comfort and help.

    The cost being her own death.

    Each persons walk with God is as unique as that persons own DNA, uniquely formed before birth and unique and personal is the relationship with God the Father.

    I pity anyone who has never loved another, for they have no understanding what losing that persons feels like and so can not understand how desperate God feels to keep all of His children under His wings.

    There is no such word in the scripture as “discipleship”, when a person takes it upon themselves the task of learning about God through Jesus they are a pupil and begin the process of learning from the “Master”, some in preschool some at the graduate level but all the same in that they are all pupils or learners or “disciples”.

    All given different tasks as members of the Body of believers all given different responsibilities, some even given special power, but all still one in that they all are still learning.

    Stepping out in faith means you have no idea the cost to yourself what the next step may bring, but trusting God for each and every step because we have learned from the Master to do so.

    The gift of God is eternal life (Romans 6: 23), it is a gift, the only cost to us is our relinquishing our sinful lives and following after Christ.


  93. remarutho says:

    Amen Steve!

    Mart you wrote:
    “The Scriptures would never be the same again; neither would the law of Moses; nor the institution of discipleship. Jesus had fulfilled the Scriptures; satisfied the legal demands of Mosaic law; and placed an ultimate claim on the goal of learning.”

    Jesus tells his disciples (and all who receive the Word with faith): And when he (the Advocate) comes, he will prove the world wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because they do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer; about judgment, because the ruler of this world has been condemned. (John 16:8, 9, 10, 11)

    Saul of Tarsus became Paul the apostle — by the transformation (the renewal) of his mind. (Romans 12:2)

    This learning is beyond worldly degrees. Saul became Paul because he had been steeped in the Word — and because he was zealous and tough-minded and persistent. It seems to me every gift planted in a person can be put to use for the kingdom somehow. At our best we are willing vessels of God the Holy Spirit.


  94. yooperjack says:

    Phpotato: Steve explained kind of what I was trying to say. Your suffering as that little girl will be rewarded when you see Jesus. There is a verse that says our suffering here will be nothing in compared to what God has prepared for us in Heaven. Do you think if you knew the cost before you got saved you still would have gone forward? Kids before the age of 20 are not very good at counting any cost. Their brains are not fully developed yet.

    As far as MK goes he’s a big boy he can handle some disagreement he may just be burned out on Church and Religion. I can identify with that, one just gets tired.

    Thank you Steve that was close to what my thoughts are.

  95. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… just because a person has within them a different thought process than you, it does not mean they are burned out on church or religion my brother. It means they have another and different thought. I wonder why would we always need to label, stifle, or reinterpret their words to fit our thoughts, don’t you? Here’s a thought that fits so well into these words, “The frustration of the Divine Plan is man’s tragedy.” Have you counted the cost of not putting everyone else’s words in a box to fit “your interpretation” of the Divine Plan? Just a loving thought my brother… Gary

  96. yooperjack says:

    There is a good picture of the snow gage on Pasty.net “click” the small picture in upper right hand corner then “click” “Whats Up” then watch slide show. There are pictures all the way back to 2001. Just keep clicking pictures.

  97. yooperjack says:

    LOL LOL Gary: It was not because he has a different opinion that would be stupid to think that. I made that assumption from reading all his post and the fact he keeps apologizing and saying he’s leaving the blog. I stand by my words.

  98. oneg2dblu says:

    I stand by mine, and do not wish ihm to leave, as I have also been justly convicted of saying I was leaving becuase of the group therapy, or mentality if you will, using a very loose interpretation about that which which was happening here. Been ther, Done that, have the scars to prove it! Remember this one thing my brother, “All a man’s ways seem right to him, but in the end lead to death.” Count the cost! Gary

  99. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack…To me, our having the Holy Spirit within us is the very proof of the manifestation of really knowing God. The renewing of the mind and the new law within us are the same, which is written on our new minds, and in our new hearts! If that Spirit is your master, then we need to obey that master. We are to become a slave to that inner voice, not because it controls our mind, but because we can and we fail to, as we disobey. With a “renewed mind” we can also approach the Throne of Grace Boldly, and “Ask” for the helper to help us control even our thoughts! Consider the cost of that Kind of Faith! Gary

  100. yooperjack says:

    Gary: Go back and read all his post. I got burned out after working so hard and struggling with self appointed law keepers in the Church. So like MK I just through in the towel. It’s not a put down it’s just being able to see where a brother is coming from because I been there done that..

  101. bratimus says:

    I thirst and have hunger,

    FEED ME!

  102. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack…Isn’t it funny how many of us were suckled by the church in our youth, and by those very law keepers in the Church we were raised in? I wonder who really burned us out? Just a thought… Gary

  103. oneg2dblu says:

    Mikek… scripture really does interpret itself, but only when we listen to the Holy Spirit within us. All other interpretation is really man’s tragedy.
    Much of modern interpretation is filled with man, and when lacking proper intent, power and possibility, only the Helper can give it real meaning, and truly provide. Intellect itself fails all the possiblities of man, where only God can become Himself revealed! Gary

  104. yooperjack says:

    Gary: I said it before: “We are our own worst enemys”. bratimus: That is the bottom line isn’t it?

  105. oneg2dblu says:

    As I approached the Throne of Grace yesterday, I realized what I bring and what God brings into that prayer moment. Where my entire life is but a vapor, my God is everything, and everything Eternal. Where I stand in time, compared to where He is forever. Where I only have the current moment to offer, as yesterday is already gone, and tomorrow has not yet arrived. For that “one moment” began to realized the enormity of the difference. We can only give Him our current moment and nothing else! It is what I brought to the table of exchange, and He accepted it, and blessed me with it! What an Awesome God we get to serve as He reveals himself to us, and shares His Time with us. It was a higher learning moment for me. Wanted to share! Gary

  106. poohpity says:

    Through out my life time a couple of lessons that were learned and help me are;

    Make sure those who lead are able to follow.

    Advice needs to be asked for to be wanted.

    How a person behaves is what they believe.

    Someone trying to prove others wrong needs to be right.

    People who put others down need someone to step on to elevate themselves.

    Ask questions because some do not know what they are thinking.

    There is only One who deserves first place in my life.

    Accusations always seem to bounce back to those who throw them.

    My mirror is the best place to look for one who needs

    The best education is experience.

    There is only One God and it is not me.

    People experience hard things so they can help others with an empathic heart.

    Everything is common to mankind so let’s do it together because the more strings a cord has the stronger it is.

    I do not have to know everything because God has it under control.

    I am a work in progress completed on the day the Lord calls me home.

  107. yooperjack says:

    The sign said: “Free gas tomorrow” in reality there is no tomorrow only this moment. Thanks for sharing that moment that’s what it’s all about “Caring And Sharing”.

  108. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, I needed your uplifting message this morning. I went to the river early today with serious concern with where I stood with the Lord. I questioned whether I was “fully” committed to the Lord and just what “fully” committed entailed. Your thoughts this morning have somewhat calmed my spirit. Your NON Pharisaaic style is very comforting. Thank you.

  109. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: #5. What if they’re both wrong or both write? If no one asks the questions or chalenges someone how do we grow.

  110. yooperjack says:


  111. poohpity says:

    Jack those were the lessons I have learned not that they are for others, just what I have understood so far on this journey of higher learning.

  112. phpatato says:

    Yooper, I’d like to join you in saying thanks to Steve, for they are what my thoughts are as well. I guess we are on the same wave length after all, we just had difficulty expressing what we meant. I’m so glad that neither one of us took the low road to get all defensive and fire back remarks that could have hurt. Gary I sensed the gentleness in your comment (9:12) and want to say that is how it should be done.

    And Yooper, I’ve been there and done that when it comes to church and religion. I to this day, refuse to put a label on myself as to whether I am a Baptist, Free Methodist or any other church name.

  113. yooperjack says:

    narrow: #1. There are two kinds of writers, one like Steve, he knows how to write things so that most can understand and then there are writers like me that because of my limited vocabulary have a hard time explaining what I mean. #2.Steve is gentle caring about feelings and stuff; I’m more in your face because I don’t believe spiritual things are based on feelings but reality (getting it right).

    We are in a battle for our minds and we can’t see our enemy, this is no game we’re playing the devil will kill, deceive and destroy the *Church* if we let him. He is now working from within the Churches in the open. (Most in the Church don’t even see it happening.) That means the devil knows people are becoming more carnal so he doesn’t have to even work undercover. More Churches are becoming people pleasers instead of God pleasers. They’re removing crosses, installing bands that entertain and watered down politically correct sermons. Sin, Hell and the Virgin berth are never spoken. Oh their spiritual but it’s not what you think. Have you ever heard of the “Jezebel spirit” they are dividing a Church near you.

    I’m preaching again. LOL

  114. poohpity says:

    God will judge the churches when we separates the tares from the wheat and we are each responsible for our own response to God. Some will respond in fear and a long list of shoulds and others will respond out of love and gratefulness.

    I forgot another lesson I learned not to bid more meld than you have or tricks you can win in Pinocle or you go set. ;-)

  115. yooperjack says:

    A voice cries out from the wilderness but no one can hear it because the music is so loud. Remember this in the future when everything is collapsing around us. All that will be left to do will be to go to a quiet place and ask God to forgive us for not doing something to stop the madness. God said: When MY People…..

  116. narrowpathseeker says:

    Yooper: LOL…I usually understand what you are saying and I understand that sometimes we disagree. One such disagreement is in this. I seem to recall you saying that you didn’t like being preached AT.(didn’t like/feelings?) My understanding of being preached AT seems to differ from yours. Getting in someone’s face because you don’t believe spiritual things are based on feelings but on reality…(getting it right) to me is being preached AT….especially when you might just be wrong(not saying that you are)…there is a quip that I can relate to…I learn something new everyday…even if it is that what I learned yesterday is wrong.

  117. yooperjack says:

    narrow: That’s how I got like this. I’m a monster of the things I hate, I’ve become one of them. AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! Too late I’m too old to change. LOL LOL LOL Thanks for telling me thou, maybe I can tone it down a bit.

  118. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… God knows we are never too old to change, but it is us he has to convince first! :)
    Some one wiser than me once said, “Everything in moderation, including moderation!” I wish I had said it first, but I probably would have said, Everything thing is taken to the extreme, including the extreme. Gary

  119. foreverblessed says:

    Sometimes I do not understand what is communicated, maybe it’s because English is not my native language, or should I say, American.
    Thanks Steve for the steeple and people. It gave me a good laugh! Although I think we have to go to the mountaintop and meet God everyday, and then go down to the valley, and not forget what we saw on the mountaintop to make in the valley. Didn’t someone write about it, Moses saw a patters of the tabernacle on the mountain. When he came down he had to work out what he had seen.

    Anyway, hope all is well with everybody. I remember 7 years ago I was very unsettled about the fact weather I had really totally committed myself to Jesus. This was huge, it took maybe more then a year.
    I certainly do not hope this topic makes people uncertain.
    Isn’t God very pleased that we are concerned that we have totally surrendered, that fact in itself is great to Him
    He looks at the heart.
    Isn’t it also a matter of faith in God, we told Him we want to surrender, and then we wait how He works it out, and gives us commands step by step, and I also believe that He works with each one differently, as many have written here already.

    Step by step He makes it known to me, and I follow, and even for the willingness to follow I pray: Lord make me willing.
    It’s all about trust in God who is able to finish what is started in us. By the way He is called Alpha and Omega, the Starter and the Finisher.
    Hold fast to the faith in Jesus! Do not give up.
    (this time I did some hard proof reading before submitting this comment)

  120. yooperjack says:

    Gary: When you get my age not too many people take you serious anyway so why bother changing. Unless I become a crabby old man, then my wife will let me know.

    This is what my 2:50 pm post is about, some of the old timmers are worried and speaking out about our country and the younger people can’t see it because they grew up in this mess. To them everything happening is normal but it’s not.

  121. narrowpathseeker says:

    Forever….I think your posts are indicative of a beautiful heart where Christ lives.

    Yooper, I don’t think you are older than I am and if so, not by much. God has done more transforming work in me post 60 than all the previous years collectively. I think OLD is the easiest time to change. LOL. I love being old and retired. Thanks be to God I am still able to do heavy yardwork and gardening(it just takes a little longer), but best of all I can spend quality time with HIM. I told my daughter that I was considering downsizing the gardens because I didn’t know how much longer I could keep them up…she laughed and said I would be probably die working in the gardens at 107!

  122. narrowpathseeker says:

    Poohpity…Amen to your 11:46 am post this morning. Those are all very good things to remember.

    And to your 2:27 pm post…I forgot all about Pinocle!! I used to play with my parents and their friends. I don’t remember much about it, but it bought back sweet memories of my Mom and Dad..thanks.

  123. narrowpathseeker says:


  124. yooperjack says:

    narrow: Why should I change, I am loved the way I am. I live in Gods country am content with my life. A little more money would be nice but God provides. The next change I make will happen in a twinkling of an eye. LOL

  125. poohpity says:

    Today’s music is different just as the hymns in the hymn book were different for that time. All that I know is I wish I had the abandonment that King David did to dance naked to the worship music of his time without a care who was watching. Today’s music offers a lot to learn and rejoice in. So keep on creating beautiful worship music so we can dance and praise God. The only problem with folks of any age are when they grumble/complain all the time and are not open to learning. Then it would seem they are stuck in a rut and do not want to change.

  126. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: If you’re writing about my post about the music being too loud you completly missed the whole meaning of the post. And you make my point. Thank you.

  127. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: I would assume you are a man because you do heavy gardening. My old partner was a man that did all the food stuff, gardening, hunting and fishing. I have a black thumb and no pataience for gardening. I fix things and make them better. I’ve been retired for 22 years, and love puttering.

  128. narrowpathseeker says:

    Yooper, I was merely stating that I don’t think you are “too old to change” if you should CHOOSE to change in any way.

    Also, I think I understood your post about the music if you were using “music” metaphorically for all the noise and busyness and the voice in the wilderness as the voice of God.

  129. poohpity says:

    Actually I was referring to another post of yours Jack where you said, “installing bands that entertain” when you were complaining about today’s churches @ 1:29 post.

    You are right there is a lot of noise and it seems God has a hard time getting through to folks who are no longer listening for His voice because their own is to loud.

  130. jayh says:

    What you glean when you read, I just read through all the posts, I raised my hand at many points I recognised and was lifted up by many of them.

    I saw in my studies that God wants us to do all things unto edifying, what a high standard has been set.

    Disciples I always believed were those who allowed themselves to be disciplined by God’s will through His word. Perhaps that is too simple a statement?
    For the ” learning more now ” how true, I find myself slowing the pace and actually taking in more and asking and “Do not cast me off in my old age ” amen to that.

  131. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… you are right God accepts you the way you are, flaws and all, but He still wants to change you! I’ll bet there is still more change that you want. You do still want to be changed. Changed from being heavenly minded into a heavenly being. Changed from old age into ageless. From corrupted flesh into a new perfected body. You are never found to be too old for Him to make that change! :)

  132. yooperjack says:

    I want to thank you all for the kind words about changing. When ever I put lol in a sentence I’m usually not serious I’m having fun. All of my post about changing this old man was in fun. God is the only one that can change anyone, in my opinion.

    Narrow: I did say I didn’t like being preached at I don’t think any of us do but boy did I need it. I should have had discipleship training also, in the beginning. I really prefer teaching over preaching we learn the least through lectures and preaching. I will continue getting in peoples faces when it comes to teaching the truth. You asked about being (right or wrong) if we teach at the best of our ability with the anointing of the Holy Spirit and teach the Word then in our heart we can teach boldly like Apostle Paul. If preachers worried about being right all the time they would never preach, although some think they are the only ones that are right.

    Yes the one in the wilderness is God speaking through older righteous men and women. With all this music blaring in these kid’s ears through i-phones and loud music in Church hearing aid companies will be making a killing in 20 years from now. They think this world is ok, when it’s going to Hell in a hand basket. Not only our economy, but morally and spiritually. My son would say dad, every older generation says that; but I think this time we’re right.

    It’s really getting crazy; on the news they say little kids are getting hormone therapy because they don’t like the sex they where born with; so the parents are preparing them for a sex change. One mother said my 18 month old baby girl keeps saying I’m a boy, I’m a boy. “GIVE ME A BREAK” See what happens when you open a can of worms.

  133. foreverblessed says:

    Yes Yooper, I thought you were teasing.
    Anyway, here is some more thought on leaving all and following Jesus:
    “I bid you leave all to follow Me. That is, leave the sins and the failures of the past.”
    This is part of God at eventide by twolisteners february 11,
    God tells us that He not only saves us from our sins but also from the remorse we could have about our past sins. These are burdens that are to big for us, so Jesus carried them for us, and took them away.
    “Out of the shadow into the sunlight of My Love and Salvation you must go.”

  134. SFDBWV says:

    Jackie I was not going to say anything this morning as this “disciple” topic has pretty well ran its course as far as the commentary part of it.

    However when I read your comments about the *next* generation I was spurred into sharing some thoughts.

    I can quote Greek philosophers who grumbled about the same complaint thousands of years ago.

    The thing is that they were right as well as you are right. The proofs in the scripture, found in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 2: 31-45. Since the very beginning creation has been on a downward spiral and that especially includes people.

    Every generation has felt it and sensed it and so declares it,

    All of the Prophets have said it and warned each generation of their decline and its consequences.

    The problem is nothing we do can stop it, it is cast in stone and not until that supernatural moment when Christ returns will all of creation be restored.

    We who have learned from the Master, can only watch in sorrow and warn the younger among us knowing they will not believe us or heed our warnings right up until the final hour.

    Everyone senses the impending doom, Christians have placed their faith on Christ, survivalist’s on their ability to be prepared with food stores, guns and ammo and trusting their abilities to survive.


  135. yooperjack says:

    Foreverblessed: You know: every now and then out of the blue the enemy puts a memory of somethink we did in the past and trys to condem us with it. I tell him nice try but there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. I wish we could totaly get rid of thoughs thoughts like God did, He remembers our sins no more. I’m sure in Heaven they will be remembered no more.

    Steve: thanks for sharing.

  136. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… I agree we are on a downward slope here, but in every generation God generates a remnant, and that remnant brings about His Plan into the lives of the next generation. For His Word goes forth, and never returns void. Praise God for this new generation that does search and thirst for Him! If we can just get beyond the noise and hear the hearts that make it happen, joy would run down you face and soak you through! Be blessed and listen to the sweetness in their desire to be His. I believe God loves their music as much as the music we grew up with, and maybe more as this world descends. PS Hearing the word is not a problem for those who will listen, even a hearing aid won’t help if the heart remains hardened. Gary

  137. narrowpathseeker says:

    Yooper, LOL…no I am not a man…I am an old woman that served as mother, father, and breadwinner and endured days of yesteryear that don’t even seem real to me now. However, in retrospect I am grateful for that which brought me to Lord…as there was no place else to go and I can NOW see that He has worked it all for good.

    I share your frustration of the unbelievable absurdities that are so commonplace in the world today and I have spent many hours in agonizing thought of it all. More and more I am reminded that scripture tells us the way things would be in the last days and of the unbelievable things coming upon the earth. Again, like in days of my yesteryears, there is only One that we can Trust and Hope in and Who is more powerful than those who serve under the powers that be. I do not get as angry, fearful and frustrated anymore. It is all starting to make sense to me. God said to pray for our enemies and to do good unto them. As I started to pray for ALL world leaders, the blatantly corrupt and greedy, etc..I have slowly but surely begun to see these people who can infuriate me, as “victims” “lost” “pathetic souls that don’t KNOW they are poor”…I don’t know as yet what else to do, as to do good to them, but I am sure God will show us in His time. Meantime just yesterday I saw a bumper sticker that read, “When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power there will be peace.”
    Yikes, I have to run..I didn’t have this time to spend this morning

  138. poohpity says:

    I think the topic ran out when we begin to look at our lives and realized that the Great Commission is not part of it. Rather than admitting how we each fall short in that area the topic gets changed. It is hard to really look within and admit that may be an area that needs some change and work. Some pass it off as not our job because we are gifted in other areas but I always thought that is one thing ALL Christians had in common was to share the Gospel and how Jesus has changed our lives not just with other Christians but with those who have not yet heard. The only way one knows whether someone has ever heard about Jesus is to ask. I know I have missed many opportunities and have prayed that the Lord will give me the words to share and be bold in my witness. Step out of the safety of the boat and go and tell, in the grocery store, neighbors, doctors office, and the many other places we run into people we have not talked to before. The thing we are asked to share is just what a difference Christ has made in our lives but if we really do not know what that difference is, we have nothing to share.

    It is so easy to share with others who already believe. It is hard to look at and talk about, no one wants to admit it, so it is easier to change the topic.

  139. bratimus says:

    With all this old talk,

    starting to think I’m reading a script to “Grumpy Old Men(woman) part 3”

  140. poohpity says:

    When we give a cup of cold water or food or a financial gift to someone say I do this in the name of Jesus. So few workers and we are each called whether we answer that call, is whether we are bringing people to the foot of the Cross to be disciples of Jesus.

  141. poohpity says:

    lol, bratimus!!!

  142. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: I thought you were a woman at first till you said you do heavy yard work then I wasn’t sure.

    I still get angry (without sinning) when I read about child abuse. There was one in our paper yesterday that was so horrable I told my wife not to read it. It has to be the drugs and alcohol or demonic possesion. Some of this stuff is not human or is it? Locking a 10 year old girl in the cold dark basement for 5 years with little bits of food, then the brother sexual abusing her. Maybe we need to go back to hanging these monsters in the city square.

    God said: “IF MY PEOPLE would……” If there is ever a time to get on your knees it’s now. GOD HELP US.

  143. poohpity says:

    I just read ODB for today and it fits right in with this are we bringing light to Jesus or to ourselves. It is OK to admit because the Lord already knows and will help us to change.

  144. yooperjack says:

    Hey Bratimus that was funny, you can be the funny one for a while I had my share of fun. I went from teares in my eyes from writing my last post to laughing in just miniutes. Weird.

  145. poohpity says:

    Jack even that monster will be accepted into the school of Jesus if someone tells him. Would you welcome him if he gave his life to Christ or would you be willing to go and tell him?

  146. narrowpathseeker says:

    I come here to learn from my brothers and sisters in Christ, to lift, to be lifted, to be strengthened for the work He has for us to do. If we can’t love, respect, and share with one another who believe, what good can we do for those who don’t know the Lord? I detect a competitive spirit which I don’t think can help any of us to become more Christlike. I have no desire to engage in it and if anything I share should appear as though I have done so, please forgive me and know it is not my intent.

  147. bratimus says:


    By now i thought you would have told how when you were younger

    That u walked to school bare foot in the snow up hill both ways

  148. poohpity says:

    narrow, you have done no such thing. Your words have brought love and grace of which I have found beautiful. Sometimes we can misunderstand the intent of others because we can not see who they are looking at when they speak unless they direct their replies directly to that person. Your words have brought encouragement and wisdom. :-)

  149. poohpity says:

    narrow, you have been an example of Hebrews 10:23-25 NIV.

  150. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: That’s where the rubber hits the road isn’t it? I would beat the Hell out of the monster first, then take them to the hospital; then ask them: “Do you want to be SAVED”?

    Bratimus: I did tell of my younger days on past post, I started posting november 20th. You’re close on walking to school, no hot lunch, we brown bagged it with our mason jar of kool Aid.

  151. mtman says:

    Words have meaning. Especially the words in scripture. The topic states that Jesus challenged his disciples to teach others. That they could be in His school.
    What it says in Acts 1, 4-8, it that he told them they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit, receive power and they would be witnesses to Him in Jerusalem, all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth. There is far more power in being a witness than being a teacher. Also far more joy being in Paradise than in school.
    Manipulating words or trying to use different terms to make a point seems to diminish the power of Him and degrades the Power of the Holy Spirit.
    This is not to be critical but simply what I took from the topic. Jesus did not charge them to go forward and be teachers, he told them to be witnesses. I believe there is a vast difference.

  152. narrowpathseeker says:

    Pooh, I feel great relief in your kind response. Thank you.

  153. yooperjack says:

    mtman: Matthew 28:20.

  154. foreverblessed says:

    Narrow, I am always uplifted by reading your comments, thank you very much. Please go on posting.
    I must admit that with what Pooh writes, feb 22 10.40 am, I have to sigh a little, and ask God: Is this what You want to tell me too?
    To witness I have been tought, is not due to pressure from outside, but from strength welling up within, and that strength is growing as we look more to Jesus and expect everything from Him. But I have to pray this over and over with my God.

    (Today I learned something new about the name Lord, would like to share it here. I am reading the Treasuries of David by CH Spurgeon, and found in Psalm 2:4
    “Psalm 2 Verse 4.
    “The Lord,” in Hebrew, Adonai, mystically signifieth my stays, or my sustainers—my pillars.
    Our English word “Lord” hath much the same force, being contracted of the old Saxon word “Llaford,” or “Hlafford,” which cometh from “Laef,” to sustain, refresh, cherish. Henry Ainsworth.”
    So the name Lord comes from Llaford, the word LAEF is still a word we use in dutch, we call it laaf. A baby who drinks milk from his mother is laaf-ing.
    Lord thus means my Sustainer, my Pillow,
    Lording it over has such a negative sound, but it should be pillowing over.
    never knew that!

  155. foreverblessed says:

    Sorry Pooh, it is good to exort one another as you do. Keep it up.

  156. mtman says:

    Yupperjack: Mark 16:15-18. LUke 24:49, Matt 28:18-19 The verses of Matt have to be taken in context with the rest of scripture. It does not mention school. Teaching is part of making disciples and being a witness but it does not focus exclusively on ‘teaching’. It is a call to being a witness, making disciples, and proclaiming the gospel and receiving power.

  157. narrowpathseeker says:

    Forever, your posts are uplifting as well as informative and I am blessed by them for although you are very far away, I see a beautiful heart in your words….so thank you for this present uplifting also.

    I remember a point made somewhere by someone(have no clue who…I just know I didn’t understand this on my own lol)that when Jesus said, “one of you will betray me”, that some asked,”Is it I?” instead of “Is it …..the other guy?” I think you and I and others have that same thought in common when we hear that one of us is doing something wrong….”Is it I?” I know it isn’t a bad thing, but I just realized that I can’t remember the major point!!! Yikes…I’m sorry maybe someone here has heard this and can remember. I don’t have Alzheimers but I think I may have a close relative of it! I should probably just delete this but now that I have already got this far with it maybe one of you can finish it for me. Anyone?

  158. poohpity says:

    Jack what does that scripture mean to you. What is it telling you to do?

  159. yooperjack says:

    mtman: Paul and Peter were witnesses as well as teachers. They set up the Churches then it was up to the Church leaders to (teach) *disciple* the followers. As it should be today. What takes away from the Holy Spirit is when people put Him in a box.

  160. poohpity says:

    narrow I think some times people live in fear of doing something wrong so much that takes away from the freedom to do good. We can never go wrong with pointing people to Jesus and what He did on the Cross and how that forgiveness has changed our lives.

  161. poohpity says:

    We are to teach people to follow Jesus, to be His disciples not ours. Paul and Peter when people starting following after them they directed people back to Jesus.

  162. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: what scripture?

  163. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: I can’t read minds yet but I’M getting close to it. If it’s the ones mtman gave they are self explanitory. They are a no brainer.

  164. poohpity says:

    Matthew 28:20 what does that mean to you?

  165. poohpity says:

    you put mtman’s name then that scripture Jack. If it is a no brainer than what does it say to you?

  166. poohpity says:

    What does this topic say to you Jack?

  167. yooperjack says:

    Poohpity: It says to beat the Hell out of those monsters then ask them if they want to become saved when they wake up with their new body cast.

  168. mtman says:

    Yooperjack: You certainly have a different take on being a Christian than I do. I thought people were converted with love not beatings. I think you missed the point of the scripture you cited, and obviously I am one of those monsters that you want to beat hell out of because we don’t view scripture the same.
    I have no intention to keep us trying to discuss scripture for a better understanding.

  169. yooperjack says:

    mtman: read my post at 10:55 before you start judging me. If you’re a child abuser you would be deserving of a beating. Trust me.

  170. yooperjack says:

    Mart: I think this topic has run its course. One thing Jesus taught His disciples is how to silence the Pharisees. We have the same problem today with religious zealots and Jezebel spirits in the *Church* they can be silenced by getting them out of their box. And I can do that with at few words just as Jesus did in His time. No personal attact is necessary just wisdom.

  171. narrowpathseeker says:

    Yooper, I think maybe more than a few of us get caught up in the same anger as you towards some of the horrific acts of unbelievable cruelty that we read about everyday. I know I have and still can, BUT(and I know what you say about but..sorry)I fight it because I know Christ told us to love our enemies, forgive to be forgiven, to love the unlovable, not to repay evil for evil, etc. So, I started following some Instructions…when I get angry thoughts…I pray for the person I am angry with. When I first started doing this I started by confessing my ugliness, asking for deliverance, and I would tell Him that I was praying for this person out of obedience…Then I focus on good..lovely thoughts..Philippians 4:8 I think satan loves to keep us hating…so an image of him laughing at me helped as well. Yooper, I am not preaching at you. I understand where you are at…been there and I know it isn’t a very pleasant place to be. I hope you give it a try.

  172. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: Don’t worry about me I’m just fine.

    #1.We have a duty to be angry at evil, without sinning, do you think Jesus was shooing those people out of the temple. In His day those parents and brother of that 10year old girl they abused for 5 years would not have gotten a beating, they would have been stoned to death.

    #2.If there was any anger it was at poohpity’s post after I posted this very tragic article. Some people are so blind to evil they make excuses for the monsters. They say stupid stuff like: “Maybe they were abused as a child or would you tell them about Jesus” and things like that. There are no excuses they need to be put out of society and the violent ones to death. Can Jesus save them yes remember that woman in Texas that got save on death row? She still had to pay her dept to society.

    #3.Does anyone on this blog know why in the OT they had to stone evil people to death. Did God have an angry side in the OT? The answer is simpler than you may be thinking.

    As to may post at 4:05 pm yesterday it was to silent Poohpity I will not play her games.

  173. remarutho says:

    1 John 4:15, 16, 17
    “There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love.” (v 18)

    The real question is: Do we have the courage to remain true to Jesus, in the face of our fears?


  174. remarutho says:

    …as he is, so also are we in this world…

  175. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… I do not believe Jesus leads us, or teaches us, or disciples us, to beat others up first, then take them for their healing. We are to Hate Evil, not the person that has chosen to follows it! For that person, we are to always find in them something to love. It may only be as small as our remembering Who made Them! If we bring our issues to the Lord saying, “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do,” we have received a valuable lesson, by properly receiving His Word.
    If we take the law into our own hands, then we must also own up to it! Isn’t being able to show Forgiveness first, also owning up to the Word of God.
    Just a thought…Gary

  176. yooperjack says:

    Gary: If that true what you are saying lets close all the prisons and release all the violent prisoners in your town so you can love them up.

  177. remarutho says:

    That scaly old dragon sniffs the air to smell our fear. When he detects that scent, he homes in with all possible forces to tempt us. (Job 2:20) My question is: Does he smell fear on me?


  178. remarutho says:

    Job 2:2 Sorry.

  179. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Matt 25:36 I was in prison and you came to visit me,
    Hebrews 13:3 Remember those in prison as if you were their fellow prisoners…

    People aren’t put in prison to be beaten, at least that wasn’t the true purpose of prisons in the US. I know it happens elsewhere and probably here too.

    God doesn’t call us to say to those in prison, “Ha, you are getting what you deserve!” Clearly he calls us to reach out in love to prisoners.

    Unfortunately, until we can think of a better way, those who would hurt others must be kept secured away to protect society as a whole. But how many are in prison now who are not a threat to society?

  180. yooperjack says:

    Remarutho: You have nothing to fear “Love cast out all fear”.

  181. remarutho says:


    I say, those who are Free On The Inside! In Crossway or not…


  182. yooperjack says:

    tracey: In prison violence rules you play by the inmates rules or you will be hurting or killed.

  183. SFDBWV says:

    Yesterday we received the update to Matthew’s Friend Jim from his doctor. Jim had undergone a series of tests and in the doctors opinion his cancer is 100% treatable.

    We have received this as good news and an encouragement and answer to our pleadings before God, however please continue to lift them up in prayer as we will until the cancer is gone from him.

    On a more dour note, another fellow (Randy) we know of had a stroke last week, 58 years old freshly fired from his last job for being hot headed and angry he ended up in the University Hospital in Morgantown WV. Without question this is the worst hospital I can imagine.

    His family told me that he had lost the use of his right side and was unable to talk, but was awake and able to communicate with them and the staff, however he has no insurance so they were making plans to get him on welfare so as to get him in a nursing home for rehabilitation.

    Yesterday I received the news that Randy has now complete renal failure and bleeding on the brain, so the hospital staff are doing nothing but making him comfortable and letting him die.

    Seems convenient for all concerned doesn’t it. No as far as I know this man is not Christian more likely an agnostic.

    The tragedy of this world is not confined to the obvious and darker side of our society, but rather like a cancer has infected all segments of it.

    I too Jackie am disgusted with all of the evil around us and am saddened by the fact it is rising and seems even to be winning against the good of this world. However evils victories are temporary, I know because in the end of all things God will make all things right for eternity. I just have to remember that and believe Him.


  184. yooperjack says:

    Steve: Let us believe for the full recovery of your friend with cancer. And am sorry to hear about your other friend.

    So far you’re the only one that understands where I’m coming from on evil people. I can’t even print what they did to that little girl, she is scard for life.

  185. oneg2dblu says:

    yooperjack… No, that is what you are saying, not me. What I’m saying is we don’t get to beast them up first, then bring them for healing, to show them Jesus.
    Our law of the land, our police, and the courts are to always uphold law and order, but also within the guidelines of law and order! The law does not allow us to fist beat up the offenders, then bring them to justice. Let’s not bring our common law and order into the topic of Serving the Lord by spending the Gospel.
    It leads us off on a bunny trail that serves something else other than Him. Gary

  186. remarutho says:

    My friend, EJ, the man I lifted up for prayers some time ago, died on Valentine’s Day. Parkinson’s — a cruel and wicked disease — fills up the lungs until the person expires from pulmonary failure.

    I hate Parkinson’s. Why did a mentor, friend and teacher have to get that disease — and go home to Jesus too soon? We are all left to live in the question, not the answers. God is good.

    We will get together to remember EJ and to celebrate his wonderful life among us next week.


  187. yooperjack says:

    Gary: You and Poohpity should get married.

  188. oneg2dblu says:

    We are, we are married to Christ!

  189. oneg2dblu says:

    Yooperjack… you are taking things to thre extreme. We don’t want the prisoners released to love them up.
    We want justice to prevail, and Christ to set them feee!

  190. oneg2dblu says:

    If we could properly mix worldly justice and God’s justice together, we would have a just world!
    But, we have an unjust world that just needs Jesus!

  191. yooperjack says:

    Listen up fellow bloggers this game is over. Thanks for playing but I’m getting bord with it.

  192. remarutho says:

    Jesus loves you, Jack! So do I — just the way you are.

  193. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Praise God that Jim has some good news but I will be praying for your friend Randy.
    I could say a lot of things about the state of your health care in the USA, and have done in past topics, but to not treat a person because they have no insurance is, in my opinion, a criminal offence and reflects very badly on your society.
    Thank God I live in Great Britain!


  194. yooperjack says:

    Bob: This is the real world. My wifes doctor ordered an MRI; a day later I recieved a call from the hospital, they said: “Because your wife has no insurance you will have to pay one half of the bill up front.” The MRI was $8000. A cat scan is $1500 with just $500 down. She ended up with an x-ray. Things are getting bad. Jesus is comming soon.

  195. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    That is a bad way to run health care.
    You can be a millionare or a street tramp here and you will both get the same, free, treatment.
    Worth paying the taxes for!


  196. oneg2dblu says:

    Bob…In America, the United States of America, anyone, “ANYONE” who comes to the emergency room for treatment gets treatment. With or without insurance you get treatment. We are by all standards the most compassionate nation on Earth. Never forget that! But, we do not have as a nation, unlimited resources for all who need them. Nor does any other country you can name. Only God has unlimited resources, and man who chooses not to use them, suffers much lack. Not given to offend, but only inform. Gary

  197. oneg2dblu says:

    We have not, because we ask not. If we ask anything in His name, we by faith already have what we ask for, if it is within the Will of God, God will Provide.
    Miracles still happen every day, life goes on and death and disease and sin go on, and miracles still happen!
    Everyday! Just ask the parents of a new born! Gary

  198. oneg2dblu says:

    Just ask a New Born Believer!

  199. poohpity says:

    Actually Bob, everyone is treated whether they have insurance or not, it is against the law to not treat even those who are not citizens. We have many free clinics too! People cross the borders to get medical help that they are unable to get in Mexico and are never sent away because of their inability to pay. Some people live in the backwoods and do not have proper medical treatment but will not leave to go and get better help by their own choice and superstitions. Our doctors go all over the world to give free services to different countries who do not have proper medical or dental help.

    While in Iraq and other areas the military even take in the general population for medical care and some instances fly them back here to get further help and payment is never an issue.

  200. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I agree Gary that no country has unlimited resources but it depends on how you use the resources available.
    Given the “political will” much can be achieved.
    I also agree that, as individuals, you in the USA are probably as compassionate as any on Earth but the “gridlock” in Washington DC inhibits this compassion to a point of crippling your nation, almost litterally.
    Very much “off topic” but the way this world is going I have to agree with Jack…..
    “Things are getting bad. Jesus is comming soon.”


  201. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    Then the USA must have had bad press as this wonderful careing nation is not what we see from over here.

  202. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I am dropping this subject for the sake of world peace!

  203. poohpity says:

    In the OT when a person sinned and deserved to be stoned to death if the person went to the Priest and admitted His sin he would bring 2 animals for sacrifices. One to killed and the blood sprinkled on the alter then on the person who did the sinning and on the other animal. That last animal then was turned out beyond the camp as a scapegoat to carry the sin into the desert. God has always set up ways for the forgiveness of sins no matter what they were but the final and complete sacrifice was done by Jesus.

    Although many would like to put their self in the place of God to do punishing that is not our job as individuals it is done through the courts. If we are open to higher learning and truly understand what our God asks of us then we will trust Him to give each person what they deserve it is not up to our limited understanding.

    For your information Jack, my son was molested by a neighbor while I changed the spark plugs in my van and drove it around the block. I know what it feels like to want to kill someone you old cranky man. So why don’t you shut-up. I let the courts do the punishing as I sat with my newly six year old on my lap getting asked questions that a women or man on the streets would blush at. I had to forgive for my son and myself. My son still suffers the consequences of that act over 16 years ago and while typing this I still have to go through the process of forgiveness. People like you make my skin crawl because I try and live my life by the standards that God has set before me and right now I am acting like you and I do not like it you foolish old man.

  204. poohpity says:

    Well Bob, the press over here says that in your nation people have to wait to be seen even while suffering the midst of a stroke. Or have to wait months to get seen for a heart condition. So it would be nice if you would look at the flaws in your own country neither of our countries has it together yet but breaking off from your country was the best things this one ever did.

  205. phpatato says:

    There is another side of that coin. Americans were taking advantage of the free Canadian health system just as Mexican were of yours. That is why we have photo health cards now. There is no perfect nation in this world for we have all sinned and come short of the Glory of God.

    Yooper, Your monster feelings are understandable by me. As a mother, I had feelings like that when my daughter was stalked as a young girl by some pervert driving alongside of her wanting to lure her in with him. She kept walking so when he found that she wasn’t “co-operating”, he drove ahead of her, opened the car door and exposed himself with obscene gestures instead. As a mother, if I had gotten hold of him, well what I wanted to do to him can’t be typed. I took comfort and was given peace when I realized that God is in control. He protected my daughter and He will deal with this “man”…which is far better than anything I or even the justice system could do.

    Maru, my brother in law is stricken with Parkinsons. I see how wicked that disease is. It slowly robs you of any dignity you possess. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your friend’s family. God Bless.

    Steve, I will continue to hold Jim up in prayer. I will also pray for Randy.

  206. poohpity says:

    Mart and friends forgive me for my blast of anger. I am so sorry for letting it take over my fingers and my heart this morning, please forgive me.

  207. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    God bless America!

  208. yooperjack says:

    Thanks Bob. I say God have mercy on America. God says: “If my people…..”

  209. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I was being cynical Jack, but I suppose we all need God’s Blessing & Mercy to survive this world today.

    Yes “If my people…..”
    Praying for our nation has resulted in The Queen, The Prime Minister and even a Muslem Barroness all advocating Christianity as a way forward for Britain.
    There is Hope in our land and many of us have faith and are beleiving for a great revival here.

    I hope and pray for the same in the USA.


  210. phpatato says:

    Bob Is prayer still allowed in schools and even gov’t over there? I remember in grade school of singing God Save the Queen and reciting the Lord’s Prayer every morning. Neither is done anymore. If fact, kids today don’t even know the words to either. just askin? There is a hope here that William (and Kate) will do great things. It is also hoped that Charles never sits on the throne.

  211. SFDBWV says:

    Randy died this morning; at 58 he leaves his elderly parents a brother and two sons.

    Also an elderly woman from here has also died today in the nursing home where she had been for the past several years, her name was Elsie, married twice but no children.

    No one dies here alone.

    Thank you all for your prayers for those people in my world, I pray all of your prayers are answered to your elation.


  212. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Hi Pat,
    Only been to Otawa once it was -26C and the canal was frozen solid. Worked on some of the government computers, Christmas 1992 I think.
    Just had a supreme court ruling to stop one council putting prayers on the agenda of meetings but they are ignoring it. (The secular society brought the case against them) although they can have prayers before the meeting so people can opt out if they want.
    David Cameron, our Prime Minister has stated that prayers will always be said at the start of every parliamentary day in the house commons and the house of lords. As has been done for centuries!
    We have alot of “faith schools” so depending on which faith, as some are muslem, then prayers are said.
    But most state schools are totally secular.
    The public schools like Eaton or Harrow still have prayers.
    I like william & Kate but I think Her Maj has a little while to go.
    I hope you enjoy the Diamond Jubilee over there. I think she is paying you a visit?


  213. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Steve, So sorry to hear about Randy.

    I am just about to leave for my prayer meeting.

    God Bless!

  214. remarutho says:

    Prayers going up for Randy’s and Elsie’s family and loved ones. Please pray for EJ’s wife and kids — kids are grown up now. Also, got a call about an hour ago that our dear Louise, born in 1917, is non-responsive & probably headed to the Big Big House any day.

    What is there but to pray for one another? So many ill — so many in crisis and dires straits.

    God is good. Nobody dies alone.


  215. narrowpathseeker says:

    I have to say that the USA isn’t what it used to be before prayers were banned from schools. Now the name of God is forbidden to the point that to even say Merry Christmas or to sing Christmas carols is not allowed. I think this made a way for the Love of power and money to take root and flourish. Integrity has become something that is still considered righteous, but I think it exists for the most part in but the pretense of possessing it. Deceiving and being deceived is more prevalent in all social levels including health care. Mega profit making exceeds concern for caring. They may treat everyone in the ER, but what KIND of care given to those who can’t pay is another story, depending on many variables. If we don’t pray for ALL our nation’s leaders as well as for ALL world leaders and trust God instead of media propaganda which swings for the higher bidder, I think we are doomed. I am very sorry if that is offensive to anyone. It is the way I see it. I used to get very very angry, but now I just pray for the greedy and power happy, because only God is more powerful than the corrupt powers that be. He can change the hearts of the most ruthless of humanity. There ARE many good caring people still in the USA, but I would wager that there are as many of the same in other countries all over the world… I am probably going to regret posting this.

  216. yooperjack says:

    Narrow: The only regret would be if you could not post what you feel in your heart. I hope we never see that day but…..

  217. poohpity says:

    When is it ever right to pour out what is in our hearts when it causes hurt, anger, judgment, condemnation or causes another to sin in anyway? When is it right to injure another human being in anyway emotionally or physically? Words can be just as damaging as any other injury, so when is it right? When is it right to cause hurt and pain? When is it right to not have control of our mouths and use them for ripping others up? I have never felt regret for harmful words not said but I do have regrets for not showing patience, kindness, gentleness and being a peacemaker rather than stirring up problems.

  218. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… We can forgive outbursts, we can forgive others their moments of expression, but we can not forgive sins,only God has that power to say, “Your sins are forgiven, take up your mat and walk!” We can say, In the name of Jesus Christ be healed though. We can walk the talk with the Power of the Holy Spirit reigning in our hearts, trouble is, we don’t always make that our first choice. Our humanity sometimes gets better of us and for the worst of motives. But, we can learn from the Mater a better way! Let’s join together and pray for that better way to become our first choice. Gary

  219. oneg2dblu says:

    Master was what I thought I typed!

  220. oneg2dblu says:

    Bob in corwall… to bad your saying God Bless America is a joke to you! I’ll pray for another type of humor to overtake you. I know in your heart you want the best for us all. Why not communicate that message instead?
    We still love you Bob, even if you are not part of the best country in the world. How’s that for over-the-pond humor? :)

  221. oneg2dblu says:

    cornwall… sorry

  222. phpatato says:

    Oh Mart….where is that new topic? The sandbox will be empty of it’s sand within a day or so and the resulting dust storm has reportedly been photographed by astronauts at the space station.

    I hope all is well with you. I can only think that you are away or that you are sick in bed.

    Hurry back!

  223. phpatato says:

    Steve and Maru

    Please accept my deepest sympathies. My prayer for you both is that God will bless and comfort you in His own Loving way. May He keep you close in this time of loss.


  224. davids says:

    I’ve been away a bit in Bob in Cornwall’s lovely land. I can’t really catch up with all 222 posts. Sorry to read about the pain some are suffering, and this group is always in my prayers, including Mart.

    I would just like to say something about healthcare, without trying to start a political debate. I have lived in both systems, and neither are as bad as the others think.

    Each system has some good points and bad points. The idea that people in the US cannot get healthcare if they are old or poor (two key groups) is not really true. The idea that healthcare in Europe is rationed by some bureaurocrats is also not correct.

    There are many areas where the politicians and the press greatly exagerate the differences between the US and Europe. In the last couple decades, European countries have been more conservative, reducing the role of government.

  225. bubbles says:

    No, no, no. I must disagree. Prayer being taken from our schools IS NOT the reason things went downhill. The problem lies with the PARENTS of these children.

    For 16 years I taught in a school where we prayed. There were children there who were rude, disrespectful, sassed, backtalked, lied, bullied others, and so on. The reason these children acted like this was because thier PARENTS had NO backbone. They defended their children. They would say, “I know my child. . . MY child would NEVER lie. . ” and so on.

    There are parents who ARE NOT teaching their child that rules are meant to be followed. These parents are not helping their children be responsible for ANYTHING–belongings, behavior, or things of others. These children and handed everything. They are taught they are the center of the universe and everything must revolve around them.

    So, oh, please. Don’t blame the lack of prayer in the school system for the falling of this country. It’s the PEOPLE themselves who do not fear God. They are not Christians. . . and even some who are are not doing what God says to do.

    I have seen children who are so disrespectful that if Jesus himself were in their presence in a physical body, they would have no idea who He was and would not care.

    This entire nation is rotting due to greed and selfishness. Did you know the law on the books says if a driver is drunk, hits another car, and runs away from the scene he cannot be charged with DUI? Our laws protect the ones who do wrong, not the ones who try to abide by the law. These are the people who wreck and kill others. Then they get to sit in jail, and the rest of us get to pay for their free healthcare, food, and lodging.

    I wish I could have been born 150 years ago, so I would be dead now and not live in this time.

  226. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    “God Bless America” is not the Joke.

    As seen from outside it’s borders it is the USA itself that is the joke!


  227. yooperjack says:

    Bob: most people here are ok it’s our Government that is the joke; 3 billion dollars to be elected Prisident. “GIVE ME A BREAK, PLEASE” And most of them are millionaires. How can they relate to the common man?

  228. poohpity says:

    Pat, what makes a difference if Mart changes the topic? How often does it really get discussed anymore anyway? There are a few who respect him enough to seriously consider what he would like us to think about but more times than not it is not the highest priority. He used to write a new topic everyday until it became like it is now so why bother anymore.

  229. narrowpathseeker says:

    Bubbles, I don’t know how old you are, where or when you taught. Was it a private Christian school? My views have root in attending schools before the 60’s when prayer was the first act of the day. All businesses were closed on the sabbath by state law. I have great grandchildren, so I have witnessed 3 generations of schools without prayer vs prayer in my time. The contrast may be different in your area, but in mine it was a steady decline. I’m sorry, but that is what I have experienced.

  230. davids says:

    Bubbles, I understand what you are saying. Whether or not my children are forced to pretend to pray in school will not make the difference.

    I am responsible for teaching them right and wrong, the importance of God in their lives, and the value of prayer.

  231. phpatato says:

    Pooh You are asking the wrong person. I think Mart should be answering your whys? I do think though that if Mart wasn’t happy with how people aren’t following on topic, he would say so and request that we do, or either that start deleting off-topic comments. I also think that if he was within reach of accessing this topic discussion, he would have changed it ohhh let me guess, and this is just off the top of my head….maybe 125 comments ago. There is only so much that a topic can generate before it begins to get stale by the same old, same old, said the same thing but instead of using your “the” in that sentence, I used “it” instead. Common sense says that once people are bored, they find something else to talk about…and usually it’s not a bad thing….key word here is usually. (I don’t think I have to expound on why I used usually and not always)

    You know some days the playground isn’t a very nice place to play. Children get mad, children get hurt and the innocent bystanders get sickened and sad.

  232. poohpity says:

    It seems that it used to be the exception to the rule that there were just one or 2 maybe that took the conversation off on what they wanted to talk about, now it seems to be the rule. It once was that people more than not followed the guidelines, had respect for God’s Word, the commentators and Mart. It used to be exciting after reading God’s word in the morning to see what Mart would give us to think about for the day. If I were him I would be so discouraged and frustrated that I would not want to write anything here anymore.

  233. poohpity says:

    Pat, he has never had to be like the parent to the children (adult readers). As adults it is up to us to adhere to the guidelines not to have an overseer or referee that is not his job, he is a Spirit filled writer.

  234. poohpity says:

    Just because he does not respond that does not mean approval or disapproval. His non response could mean that he is leaving it up to the people themselves as adults to see the problems and areas that need to be worked on.

  235. poohpity says:

    Or even the conviction of the Holy Spirit to those who are listening. I bet that is what Mart does he probably prays because of his trust in the Lord.

  236. yooperjack says:

    Or Mart and his friends may be laughing their heads off. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ect.

  237. poohpity says:

    They are a caring considerate group, Jack, I do not believe that they are laughing at all but hanging their heads in disgust and disappointment. They have principles.

  238. phpatato says:

    As adults it is up to us to act like adults too. I likened a playground and us in that playground because by way of some of the comments, some act like children. Temper tantrums, name-calling, pouting….but that is just how I see it. You have to agree that it certainly is not mature and certainly not Spirit-filled. Maybe Mart will have to start being like a parent, although I know he would groan at the thought. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again (and I am not the only one to say this)….if an unsaved person were to drop by here because they had just read Our Daily Bread and was wanting more to feed on, they’d click out so fast and would probably throw the booklet in the garbage…or sit back and sneer at what they saw.

    If it was really bothersome to Mart that the rules were not followed, I’m sure he would speak up and ask us to please…. and I’m going out on a limb here but if the last couple of days of this topic doesn’t elicit a response from him, maybe you worry too much??

  239. yooperjack says:

    Or this could be an expirment in Christian behavior. And some of us could be plants to stir up the dust in the sand box.

  240. yooperjack says:

    Sorry Mart but I just couldn’t pass up this oppertunity for a good laugh. LOL Hope you have a good sense of humor.

  241. phpatato says:

    You mean like having a “bug” planted? Wow, I’m thinking if this was a science lab, the fire department would have been called. LOL

  242. poohpity says:

    Pat I did not say that because of the sandbox reference. One would think that there would be no need to treat us like children although at times there isn’t much difference. It would have probably been better to say micromanage the comments after guidelines were already posted if they did not want folks to adhere to them why would they have made them. They seem to be preventive and results of not following them is quite obvious.

  243. poohpity says:

    My hunch is it is more of an attack of satan to cause disunity, strife, disrespect and division.

  244. yooperjack says:

    Bottom line it’s none of our business how Mart runs his blog he can shut it down with one click. Sometimes when people have been part of something for a long time they tend to want to take ownership or command, like in Church or a business. In Church this is called a Jezebel spirit it divides and concurs. Many times a Pastor doesn’t know it till they give him his walking papers.

  245. yooperjack says:

    Mart: There is a book out by John Paul Jackson called “Unmasking the Jezebel Spirit”. I’ve seen him talk about it in an intervue. It’s very interesting.

  246. phpatato says:

    I have said that before too Pooh. Satan is alive and well and what better place to attack than a Christian blog. He is chief “sneerer” and he’s jumping up and down in glee as of late. Sadly I think we have checked our armor at the door. Ephesians 6:11

    As for guidelines and rules and such, they always seem to be highlighted and brought to the for front when the topic stays up for too long and it’s never by anyone connected to this website. Trouble is, it’s not that they have to be highlighted, it’s that a new topic is needed. It is only human nature to veer off-topic once it becomes evident that there is nothing more to say on topic…like this one. Personally, I think it would be a great way to share with each other until Mart is able to post something new. Like prayer requests or just even pleasantries. We are brothers and sisters in Christ after all so why not?

    Please know that it is not my intent to be disrespectful to Mart. I am simply “trying” to explain my thoughts.

  247. phpatato says:

    Sorry for the typo..forefront

  248. bratimus says:

    This Topic has gone way out to left field,

    from higher learning to the USA is a joke, argueing about prayers in public schools.

    The real question is about prayer in schools.

    Would you really want the public school system to control prayer of your children?

    Insulting someones country over who medical system is better, it is all sorcery of medicine anyway.

    We are displaying wisdom at it’s finest, showing our higher learning in Christ

  249. poohpity says:

    I have to respectfully disagree there is still so much to learn about the topic, practice and apply. It seems the depth of what it is referring to has been flooding the comments with quite the opposite of what it is saying.

  250. remarutho says:

    Claudia —

    Thank you so much. We have the deep comfort of the Lord’s promise: …to comfort all who mourn; to provide for those who mourn in Zion — to give them a garland instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and the mantle of praise instead of a faint spirit… (Isaiah 61:1, 2, 3, 4)

    My heart is as your heart. You wrote:
    “I really didn’t lose them. They are just sleeping in Christ and one day we will see each other again.”

    God’s mercy is everlasting.

    In Him,

  251. remarutho says:

    Thank you, Pat, for your well wishes.
    Blessings, Maru

  252. foreverblessed says:

    This topic is about higher learning, I agree with you Pooh this could be an endless topic, as everyone could share what more and more they have learned by walking in faith with Jesus.
    Like someone shared we pray for our enemies, and how she did it.
    Last night I was thinking, that when we are saddened by what is happening in the world, we should pray and pray, but Claudia has added that, thank you Claudia, thank you.
    I believe we have to pray more and more, not only for the people we pray for, but also for ourselves, as we are the outposts of Jesus in this world. We, especially we, the disciples of Jesus, should stay calm and peaceful, and full of love.
    But that is something we have to be disciplined in, a disciple is a learner first and foremost, a learner from Christ, we learn from Christ, and He wants us to be at rest in Him.
    Come, you who are heavy laden, come to me and find rest for your souls.
    This is the path of higher learning, but when we are very very upset, we do not want to hear that, we want to vent what is unsettling us, and want everybody to be unsettled just as we are by the facts that are happening around us. I know, that’s how it was with me, and still learning. It took me years to get over some anger, and some unsettling matters. We must overcome these in the love of Christ. It is the love of Christ that is leading us.
    Focus on Jesus and His love, especially now, while it is still day.
    When night comes people will see who are real christians, by the love they have for one another. As others who have not this calming Balm will be shattered.
    John 16:33, 17:21
    But that calm and quietness of spirit in Jesus is something that is developed, in advesre situations.
    So, I do not know if I am as encouraging as Claudia was, but that’s why we pray and pray, and pray without ceasing.
    Yooper, this is not to put you down, but I pray that you will be blessed by the peace and calm Jesus has, that it may touch you, and make you at rest. And for all who read this, be blessed.

  253. narrowpathseeker says:

    Are we not LEARNING here that none of us are perfect nor always right? Could we be LEARNING here how to put into practice what scripture teaches us about getting along? Are any of our experiences from which we’ve learned and grown in Christ really off topic? Can we learn from someone else’s mistakes? Just last night I was watching a movie with a couple of the wee ones. At one point in the movie a little girl got a little fresh. My eight yo G.G.D. remarked,”she is such a brat” and after a few moments with no prompting whatsoever from me hung her head and said, “but I would probably feel the same way if that happened to me”. If only we adults could see that we aren’t all that different from one another, but that we have had different experiences in life and thus different views? I think we all might tend to see things as very wrong when someone else does it but excuse it when we ourselves are on that end of the stick. I know I recognize that because I have been there often. I am going to spend much of today praying for ALL of us. Peace.

  254. narrowpathseeker says:

    While meditating this came to me, “A kind word turns away wrath”. I then recalled, many times when I was very angry, those who provoked me further by jabbing a little harder and deeper with no mercy until I blew. THEN I recalled the times that I further provoked people who were angry. I did so in a false sense of my own superiority because I thought THEY had a false sense of superiority and that they deserved to be put in “their” place. I didn’t give much thought to the probability that those provoking me thought I deserved to be put in my place(and in retrospect I probably did) However, then, I recalled the times of some who challenged my anger with kind and compassionate words and how my anger was diffused almost immediately. I have been on both ends of so many sticks that sometimes I forget which stick is on the table. What I am trying to say is that I hope I haven’t provoked anyone while disagreeing on any matter.

  255. narrowpathseeker says:

    Foreverblessed, I meant to thank you for your loving and uplifting message, but I looked for Claudia’s message that you mentioned and somehow scrolled right past it into days ago posts and forgot what I was doing. However, I finally remembered and found it right there a little above yours. Both of you wrote very inspiring messages and I thank you both.

    Claudia: Please don’t “shut up”! I like the “goodies” you bring to the table along with the main course.

    When I reflect on this blog in general I think it is a fairly well balanced feast….even those of us who bring something seemingly half baked now and then bring something very nutritious for our spiritual well being most of the time. God Bless ALL of you.

  256. foreverblessed says:

    THank you Narrow for sharing you meditation, as I was pondering this point too, but “A kind word turns away wrath” is an answer to my question.
    I also so agree with you, that we all have had our share of difficulties, wouldn’t it be better if we shared some of them, (maybe not all), thanks for telling your.
    Thanks for the blessings
    In Christ we are blessed forever.
    (I wanted to have the name blessedforever, but someone else already had subscribed with that name)

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