Text Size: Zoom In

The Gambler

How much of the world beyond has echoes, or reflections, in the world we know?

While thinking about the Apostle Paul’s letter to the Philippians, I’ve been thinking again about The Gambler, the Don Schlitz song that Kenny Rogers made famous in 1978.

While The Gambler isn’t Bible, the perspective it offers from the mouth of a whiskey starved voice of experience is hard to deny.  After offering to trade the wisdom of the table for a swallow of a young man’s bottle, a voice in the night tells a story that is summed up like this,

Now Ev’ry gambler knows that the secret to survivin’
Is knowin’ what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
‘Cause ev’ry hand’s a winner and ev’ry hand’s a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.”

At this point in the song, the storyteller concludes,

“So when he’d finished speakin’, he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness the gambler, he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.

You got to know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you’re sittin’ at the table.
There’ll be time enough for countin’ when the dealin’s done.”

Somehow those words have been mingling in my mind with the words the Apostle Paul’s own personal story. While telling what he’d learned along the way (Philippians 3), he shows that he too discovered that we all need to learn the skill of knowing what to hold, and what to let go of.

In his own unforgettable words Paul acknowledges that, while falling far short of the kind of man he wants to be, he longs to forget past mistakes and take hold of that for which Christ Jesus has taken hold of him (Philip 3:12-14).

In other words, we really do need to know what to let go of, and what to hang on to, without being able to see how it is all going to play out.

Like The Gambler, Paul doesn’t see this skill as being just a matter of knowing the rules of the game. He too knows that life needs a wisdom that is more than knowledge. When it comes to reaching for the hand of God, it’s a  matter of learning to draw on “the Spirit of Christ” rather than “our own flesh” (Philip 3:3) to see how to let go of whatever holds us down, and to reach longingly for that which will lift us up…

According to the song, even a drunken gambler  has learned along the way that “’…ev’ry hand’s a winner and ev’ry hand’s a loser, And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep.”

Seems to me that even the last line about “the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep” reflects faintly  what the whole of the Bible is teaching us. What could be wiser than than to pray for the skill of knowing how to play the hand that is dealt to us today—without having to know how it is all working out for our good—until we are with the One who holds all the cards?… and whose mercy endures forever!

Vote on whether you think this post is something you'll be thinking about:
Vote This Post DownVote This Post Up (+183 rating, 192 votes)

215 Responses to “The Gambler”

  1. infiniti07 says:

    Jn 15:7 and Phil4:4-9 are verses that come to mind abut living a new life of faith. If my faith is a gift from God and I’ve long ago accepted Christ as my personal Saviour, why do I continue to search for significance when it all resides with Christ? I either trust in Him or I don’t. If I do then I need to listen to the One who put me on this earth and follow the Spirit given to me to do His will.

    Anyone who disconnects from His life-giving Word and Holy spirit will soon regress into a a lost state that is spiritually fatal. To the extent tha i live up to the responsibility and commitment to follow Jesus’ ways, God will answer my prayers and requests in His time as long as my heart is sincere and I have relied on the insight given to my by Him.

    If I depend on the One who created me I can have every confidence that no matter what comes my way it is either for my learning or a means through which God can use me for His purpose.

  2. tracey5tgbtg says:

    A long wait for a new blog topic and this topic was well worth the wait. I so need to learn to let go of things. I need to let go of trying to fix things and people. I can get so caught up in thinking that I know what is best. I try to hold on to being right and having my rightness validated and acknowledged. I pray that God would keep me focused on Him and His goodness, mercy and love.

    “Turn your eyes upon Jesus
    Look full in His wonderful face
    And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
    In the light of His glory and grace.”

    Those lyrics have been posted here before of course. I keep them in my mind as much as I can. They remind me where my focus should be. I praise You, Lord Jesus Christ.

  3. confeticat says:

    Mart, I love that song, The Gambler! Sometimes I find myself humming the tune. Especially the last chorus – know when to hold ’em, know when to fold ’em. The book of Ecclesiastes, for example, is a dreary human book though there are some chunks of gold to be found in it, but a person is a fool to store up earthly wealth and not have a relationship with God. There are parts of our basic faith to be cherished, and other parts that are error, and God can give us the wisdom to know the difference. To find that ace that we can keep.

  4. isaiah43123 says:

    While reading this, I kept putting the holding and folding into the context of witnessing, planting seeds of truth. We need to know when to keep working the garden or to shake it’s dust off our feet.
    Keep the Faith!

  5. poohpity says:

    I was sort of confused until I read Philippians 3 now I understand the topic better. The one thing we need to hold on to is the joy of believing in Christ Jesus Phil 3:1,7,8,9 and fold those things that say we can earn our way to heaven Phil 3:2,3,4,5,6.

    Pushing toward the goal of being all that Christ saved us for like isaiah43123 said. We have been saved for doing good, planting the seeds of the Gospel and when we hold to the past Phil 3:13,14 then we do not think about the glorious future Phil 3:20,21.

  6. confeticat says:

    “Keep the Faith” has become a cliche. There are too many ideas of what that is. We are obviously NOT “standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel.” (Phil. 1:27)

  7. foreverblessed says:

    Losing everything for the sake of Christ, how well Paul knew what he said. But he was taken by Jesus as it was like a miracle, a flashing light that blinded him. Later Paul would say, I the greatest sinner of all, if I could be saved, so can anyone.
    I was part of a special church, a bit cultish I guess. Leaving that church felt as if I had lost everything, but I kept praying to God, sorry God, I misunderstood You, I was wrong, I am at a loss, please guide me. And sure enough He did guide me. He did it in a miraculous way. I heard Him speak to me, words of comfort: “It will be allright, I will go with you”. I was suprised, seeing no one around, and then again the same voice came again, it was like in my head:”It will be allright, I will go with you”. Then I knew God was with me, and everything is allright. And that it does not matter what traditions you have, what creed, what denomination, as long as you have Jesus, or rather that Jesus has you, and you follow Him, it is allright, everything else is of no importance, Jesus is all that matters.
    Like the song: Turn your eyes upon Jesus, what a beautiful song. Look to Jesus and everything of earth will become insignificant. Even all the wrong doing that has been done to you.
    Jesus fills our hearts, all of it, to the full. It is a great miracle!

  8. poohpity says:

    confetica, it may be a cliche for you because you can only speak for yourself, unless you have the ability to see into the heart of another. The faith that holds us together is believing that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, rose on the third day and has gone to prepare a place for us in heaven so that we will be with Him now and for eternity. That is the Gospel I share and believe in, those are the cards I hold and the ones I fold are the one’s that say I deserve and can earn it. If others do not believe that then I can walk away and do not demand they believe the way I do by loving them anyway or in spite of. Jesus died for the forgiveness of all sinners and has an everlasting mercy whether they believe or accept it or not.

  9. confeticat says:

    Continuing on with Paul’s conversion, “during the night, some of the other believers lowered him in a large basket through an opening in the city wall.”

    “No one lights a lamp and then hides it or puts it under a basket. Instead a lamp is placed on a stand, where its light can be seen by all who enter the house.
    Your eye is a lamp that provides light for your body. When your eye is good, your whole body is filled with light. But when it is bad, your body is filled with darkness” (Luke 11:34,35).

  10. billystan121 says:

    In Philippians 3 Paul’s testimony reveals a lot about his character and the strength of his faith. Although my actions never led anyone to a prison cell or to death, my actions early on in life led me to a prison cell. I consider the years that I was not a Christian to be the dead years, or if you prefer the lost years. I spent the first 34 years of my life as an alcoholic and drug addict. I ruined the lives of everyone in my life.
    At 54, after 20 years in a recovery program I came to know Christ. Like Paul I enjoy sharing my testimony with others. The New King James Version quotes Paul, “Not that I have already attained, or am already, perfected; but i press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.” (Phil.3:12) I too believe that I will not in my lifetime attain the goal of wisdom in Christ, but I also believe that progress toward that goal is very possible. I agree wholeheartedly that in our lives perfection is an unattainable goal. I’ve learned through many attempts that I will never be perfect. God in His wisdom has given us all that we will ever need.
    Press on, run the good race, I have completed the race; all are words from Paul’s letters. In Philippians 3:12,Paul says that by pressing on he has come to know a life with only one limitation-himself. I have experienced a great deal of holding back in my life because of my own doing. I chose to be an alcoholic and drug addict…I chose a life full of bad choices. Six years ago that all changed; I received Christ into my life. I received a chance to live a second life. And like Paul Christ “has also laid hold of me.

  11. confeticat says:

    Jesus said, “But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matt. 5:48)

  12. poohpity says:

    Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. (Col 1:28 NKJV)

  13. remarutho says:

    Good Evening Mart & Friends –

    I also have loved the old song about the seasoned gambler by Kenny Rogers. It seems to me the entire “game” depends upon the values we hold, not the cards we hold in life. Winning in the kingdom looks like losing in the world. Jesus came up out of that grave with a victory only he could have won. But, pretty much everyone thought he had lost.

    Mart, you wrote:
    “In his own unforgettable words Paul acknowledges that, while falling far short of the kind of man he wants to be, he longs to forget past mistakes and take hold of that for which Christ Jesus has taken hold of him” (Philippians 3:12-14).

    Paul winds up telling his son in the faith, Timothy, “I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith…” (2 Timothy 4:7, 8) Though the games in the arena provide the images for Paul’s self-reflection to Timothy, he is speaking to the young pastor much as the old gambler speaks to the younger man on the train. The wisdom Paul offers is infinitely more valuable than the advice of the gambler.

    It seems to me, God is the gambler, when he chooses we flawed and feeble humans for his messengers in the world. The Lord took a chance on an arrogant, over-educated churchman like Paul – but over the thirty-some years of his ministry Paul left behind all pretense and all the academic glory, to plant churches throughout the known world. There is a change in the Paul who wrote to the church at Philippi and the Paul who wrote to Timothy. Perhaps he was able to forgive himself for past mistakes…Jesus is able to perfect us.


  14. confeticat says:

    You said last week, Pooh, “I still mess up, perfection is no longer a goal nor do I expect it from others.” So you and Paul are not doing so hot with Col. 1:28.

    God is no gambler, he did not take a chance on Paul. He knew exactly what Paul would be; he knows exactly what each of us will be. Paul showed us the wrong way to do it and we tried it for 2000 years and it’s been a miserable flop. The children of Israel did the same. They said with confidence, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do! and you know how that turned out. That’s why God gave the law. Paul has had us constantly striving, fighting, falling down and picking ourselves up, trying to love and get love in return, trying to forgive, putting our best foot forward, I could go on and on. These are the things humans are naturally inclined to do to better themselves, and often people of the world do it better than Christians. Paul makes it sound “spiritual”. Many Christians have not even repented.

    When Jesus says “be perfect”, he’s not pointing a finger at you. He is saying in love, “Here, take my holiness. Dwell in me, as I in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself, only if it remains united with the vine…I am the vine, you are the branches. He who dwells in me, as I dwell in him, bears much fruit; for apart from ME you can do NOTHING (John 15:4,5)

  15. Loomis says:

    Your path to the truth of Phillipians 3 was interesting. Some years back I came through life giving surgery where in my recovery I had iffy days. At my worse night I left the outcome in God’s hands with the awful exprience I was having to go through. Living or dying I knew I was in God’s hands. It did not change my experince into peace or relief becaause I was in a physical mess. But I was at peace knowing if it went worse I wuld be with the Lord. I also knew if I lived I would do so in a painful struggle for awhile. Sometimes we go through bad things. My experience was impaired do to strong pain narcotics, but I learnedd a new simple trust through it all. I do recall I was in no shape for a study in Job. I recovered but it wasn’t a quick answer.

  16. foreverblessed says:

    Loomis, God bless you, a new simple trust you learned, like a child. I pray all of us will come there as well.
    COnfeticat, it is curious that you very well see what Jesus meant when He said: Be you perfect as I am perfect.
    But when Paul writes exhortations you cannot see that he means it the same way as Jesus, that all is done in faith and in the strength that we should ask in Jesus, and not on our own strength as you suggest. Galatians 2:20

  17. SFDBWV says:

    We listen to a great deal of country music and in doing so I can not escape the gritty earthy sageness and insight that life teaches and our modern poets put to pen.

    We have spoken often of wisdom and knowledge their similarities and differences. Wisdom and truth are always recognized when heard and I for one believe that God speaks to us all from all of His creation, that also includes poets songwriters and the occasional drunk setting beside you at the bar; especially that small quiet voice in our hearts.

    Certainly knowing what to hold on to and what to let go of is base in achieving peace in your life. Trouble is that too often there are plenty of voices around us to remind us of those things that should have been buried in a past, that though helped shape us, no longer is who we are.

    We who have made the choice to declare that Jesus of Nazareth is Lord and accepted Him into our hearts have undergone a new birth and have become new creatures. ; given a new deal if you like.

    That old nature we had is like the discarded cards the gambler has thrown away and we have kept the best (Jesus of Nazareth) to add new cards (the remainder of our lives) to. This is a winning hand no matter what else life may throw in our way.

    If we listen there is a lot of wisdom and truths being spoken and when we hear it our hearts resonate with it and there is that wonderful moment that the Spirit in us leaps for joy and we share in that joy as one.


  18. SFDBWV says:

    Billystan121 I am so very happy for you, it is wisdom that speaks through you to not look back only forward to that great prize at the end of your race.


  19. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed I too have heard the voice of God, it isn’t surprising that His sheep know His voice, nor is it surprising how many other voices try to drown Him out.


  20. confeticat says:

    I suspect the Gambler is Mart – ha! That’s right, Loomis, there’s no quick answer. The last part of Gal. 2:20 is true but it is truth mixed with error. Christ the Imposter was not crucified. He was not the One on the cross, it was Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus was crucified ONCE FOR ALL (Heb. 7:27;10:10) so we could live.

    You’ll find that the Church also had Christ inserted in, of all places, the book of Hebrews, which speaks of the priesthood. He had no part of that (Acts 11:26). ‘Christ’ was a title that was changed to a proper name and attached to Jesus. ‘Christ’ means messiah but it has taken on a life of its own. Names matter, because along with the name came a whole other way of living that Jesus did not teach. Jesus is not in his ministry of Messiah on earth at the present time. The Jews rejected their Messiah but he’s coming again as King of Kings.

  21. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends —

    Mart, are you beating the brush for any jokers in the deck?

    Plainly stated, there is an Old Covenant, made at Sinai, and a New Covenant in the blood of Jesus Messiah (Jesus Christ – same meaning in Greek).

    There is one dispensation – clearly revealed in our triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who is the only sovereign Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer of the entire universe. No sleight of hand.


  22. poohpity says:

    I started laughing to myself about this topic and thought how many times I have not walked away and even ran when trying to confront convoluted thinking and distorted theology or doctrine. (Mark 6:11 NIV) Oh my gosh how many times I get caught up in foolishness from those who have no real knowledge of God’s Word or God yet throw it around as if it were just words to prove useless points rather than the revealing heart of our Lord and Savior. My bad!!

    How many times I have read the wisdom of Solomon and even used it but continued in the folly. Although “The Gambler” is a song about gambling it’s wisdom reaches higher than I could have imagined and maybe it has finally sunk in. People who do not really seek the truth take confrontation as an attack rather than being open to learning something new which with the things of the bible and our God is a continual learning process because none of us have it all down. Proverbs 15:2, 14, 21 and so many more speak about this but obviously I have not learned that lesson yet.

  23. poohpity says:

    Proverbs 1:7; Proverbs 12:15

  24. confeticat says:

    Maru, I assure you this is no joke. I answer serious comments and inquiries.

  25. poohpity says:

    It is the Lord who brings understanding and wisdom and when it comes down to it I know I lack both so it is in the dealers hand.

  26. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All!

    Please let me hasten to add that no person is a card in a playing deck! If I give that impression, then please accept my apology.

    I simply find no support anywhere in the Bible for a dispensational layering of history, secular or holy. I have found that interpretation to be a wild card — a chimera — a red herring. I am willing to learn…

    Yours in Christ,

  27. royalpalm says:

    Hello Mart and BTA family,
    Thanks for this topic and for your insightful posts… I too like this song by Kenny Rogers. As I pondered on Mart’s intro, this analogy came to my mind…

    In the “game” of life; I like to think of opportunities, time, resources, circumstances, health, etc. – everything that I receive each day- as cards dealt to me. Before knowing the Lord, I played my cards like the gambler- not knowing which cards to hold and keep – all the while hoping for a good outcome. The results were not always good; I did not know the rules; the rules that I learned were not right.

    Things changed dramatically when I learned about the Card Dealer – the one who dealt me the cards! What was exciting was I can talk to Him directly and ask for guidance how to play and succeed with the cards I receive. He gave me a Book and also a Personal Tutor. I found out that as long as I follow the instructions in the Book and the advice of the Tutor, I need not worry about the cards that I hold and the cards I discard even if these did not make sense. Learning by the Book is not easy because I am used to playing using my own common sense; asking the Tutor is also very humbling. However, as I give up using my own judgments, albeit very slowly and reluctantly, I learned to handle my cards much better. My times with the Card Dealer help me know Him better, and the cards have become more meaningful to me because I learned that the cards have been specifically chosen- to mold me to conform to His Son. Previously a source of anxiety, confusion, sometimes despair, now the cards are like gifts each day from a loving Father.

    I can write the fine details, but this is the basic story of my life… my cards are no better than other people have. I don’t aim for the jackpot but just to make the best of what I receive and enjoy the game. I look forward to the challenge but now I realize that what matters most is not the cards, nor the game, but the privilege of knowing the Card Dealer, Himself, and the blessed hope of seeing Him one day.
    Rom. 8:28, 29, 30; James 1:17; Phil 3:20-21; Jer. 9:23, 24; Psa.57:9,10,11.

  28. confeticat says:

    Maru, I might have taken your post as frivolous when you didn’t mean it that way. If so, I’m sorry. My sink was stopped up and I just used a wire to pull up all the gook that was keeping the water from flowing through. We have to get rid of the gook before we can accept anything new God would say to us.

    Perhaps you can explain about one dispensation, I wasn’t in that line of thinking and don’t know what you mean. You mentioned the trinity. “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!” (Deut. 6:4) Now we know that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are included there, but when he is divided up into three parts that’s how Christ was slipped in to what Paul calls the “Godhead” (Col. 2:8,9). So that is one reason why God says he is One and the trinity is not mentioned in scripture.

  29. confeticat says:

    Royalpalm, I think you’ve hit on it. God is the Card Dealer – I like that.

  30. royalpalm says:

    Thanks confeticat…I am concerned about your Christ and Messiah ideas. Where did you learn this? Messiah and Christ is the same word in 2 languages. i.e. Messiah (Hebrew) is the same as Christ(Greek) which means the Chosen or the Anointed One.

    God is the God of truth, so I pray that you will find the truth as He promised. John 8:31,32; Jer. 29:13

  31. confeticat says:

    To make a long story short, first I made a decision to obey Jesus no matter what he said. I found myself with copious notes from Christian radio and frustration at not being able to remember it all much less do it all. Then Jesus let me know that he would speak to me. I searched for him with all my heart, put all the stuff away away and turned to him – I in him and he in me. I was a slow learner – so slow that it was amazing when others seemed to know what he called me to do before I did.

  32. poohpity says:

    John 10:30; John 14:7, 9

  33. poohpity says:

    John 1:1-3

  34. SFDBWV says:

    I just wanted to set the record straight as to finding the Trinity in Scripture; Matthew 28: 19 gives equal authority to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and 1 John 5: 7 gives record that the Father the Word and the Holy Spirit are one.

    I can go on and rewrite Scripture verse after Scripture verse to show the Trinity in Scripture, but am only going to give these two and let the matter go.

    Confeticat I do not know what books you do read, but it is obvious one of them is not the Holy Bible.


  35. royalpalm says:

    confeticat, thank you for sharing; not all of us are the same; some are gifted with kindness,or hosptality, or generosity,etc. and some with the ability to understand and learn quickly…These are good, but it is our faith that pleases God when we recognize God Himself as the source of truth, as the One who desires that we know the truth so we can worship Him in a way that pleases Him.

    I grew up practicing “Christian” religion, but I learned later that some of its teachings were not Biblical. The teachers were zealous for their faith and were convinced of what they were teaching but the teachings were based on their own ideas and traditions.

    However, when we seek to honor God, like Cornelius, (the first Roman convert), God will send somebody to help us know the truth about Jesus and to believe in Him as our Lord and Saviour.(Acts 10); Acts 10:1,2;34,35…44,47,48 This was also true for me; God graciously sent to a school where God’s word was taught and He opened my understanding. I am glad you also like to study God’s word. These 2 verses are really helpful: Prov.3:5,6 and Psalm 37:4,5,6.

  36. poohpity says:

    royal, it was not the difference with The Messiah and Christ. The thought was presented that Jesus is not the same as Christ in the facts topic.

  37. royalpalm says:

    pooh, thanks… I need to “retrace” my steps and see where the paths diverged…

  38. poohpity says:

    It was the July 7, 2012 at 12:21 pm post.

  39. poohpity says:

    There is a difference when someone is holding cards and bluffing about what they are rather than having really good cards. Both can win a pot but the sad things with gambling you never know the difference. In each hand dealt if there is a winner than there has to be, depending on how many are playing, several losers. I do not find that with the kingdom. When God is in the game there seems to be lots of areas to win in all the hands played when all who are playing end in win/win situations.

    There are a lot of bluffers out there and unless one can read them correctly and really pay attention you won’t get fooled but on a whole the players are trusted when maybe they should not be. If they have proved themselves to be consistent and trustworthy with what the Word teaches then you do not have to be ready to walk away or to run.

  40. confeticat says:

    Steve, I haven’t taken my beliefs from books other than Scripture. What you said and I said are not in disagreement, so what are we arguing about? Whether the word trinity is in the Bible?

    Royalpalm, Cornelius was a God-fearing man before Peter arrived. In fact, that is why God chose him to send Peter to (Acts 10:4). He needed to hear about Jesus because there was no Bible back then and he was not a Jew. God used a man and a vision. I too went to a high school where God’s word was taught and I’m thankful for it, but when I needed to know Jesus personally it was just him and me, and that’s the way he meant it to be. Cornelius would have come to Jesus the same way.

    And Pooh got it right. Jesus is not the same as Christ. Jesus is not a Christian.

  41. poohpity says:

    Sorry but that is not how pooh thinks that is how you think and I disagree wholeheartedly. I have never heard such thinking even among those who have yet to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, to separate one from the other as if they are different. So I will fold that one and walk, no run away from such nonsense.

  42. poohpity says:

    If one does not understand fully who Jesus Christ is then they are not saved according to scripture. Roman 10:9-10

  43. poohpity says:

    ooops Romans 10:9-10

  44. poohpity says:

    There are however 2 religions I know of that teache such things, one is Mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses.

  45. royalpalm says:

    confeticat, your ideas about Jesus, Christ, and Messiah are unBiblical.(July 9, 2012 at 8:41 am; July 9 4:30 p.m.,July 7, 2012 at 12:21 pm posts.
    Here is the truth from the Scriptures: Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God – the Messiah/Christ /Chosen to be our Lord and Saviour.
    God Himself has given His Word; these are just a few: John 20:31; Acts 16:31,John 4:25-26; Matt. 16:16; 20; Matt. 26:63, 64; Acts 2:38; 3:6

  46. confeticat says:

    My ideas are not unbiblical – they are unChristian. Not like the Christian religion interprets them. Of course, they don’t agree either.

  47. poohpity says:

    Acts 11:26 Christianity is a way of life not a religion. Religions are created by man to serve man’s ego. Christianity is created by God, to worship and praise God providing a way to be with Him now and into eternity.

  48. kingdomkid7 says:

    So, confeticat, you are anti-Christ, right?

  49. confeticat says:

    Christianity is a religion. It is big business. It has a false god, just as other religions do. It is built on a mixture of truth and lies, which makes it the most dangerous of them all.

  50. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist – denying the Father and the Son. 1John 2:22 NIV

  51. remarutho says:

    Good Afternoon Mart and Friends –

    Confeticat, you wrote (07/09/12 at 12:01 pm:

    “…Christ was slipped in to what Paul calls the “Godhead” (Col. 2:8, 9). So that is one reason why God says he is One and the trinity is not mentioned in scripture.”

    Scripture is as full of references to a triune God as a good chocolate chip cookie is stuffed with real dark chocolate morsels! Too many references to post here, beginning with Genesis 1:26, all the way through to Revelation 1:9, 10. One who has soaked in the Word of God will hear that your statement posted above does not ring true with what has been revealed.

    You have soaked up a JW tenet along the way. That might be one you would seek to “fold” rather than “hold.” A strong Bible teaching such as Bethel or Disciple, or one of the RBC teachings might be a commitment you would choose to make. (Isaiah 55:6)

    Jesus is Lord,

  52. confeticat says:

    I think I have made it clear that I do not deny the Father or the Son or that he is the Messiah. Again you are stumbling on the insertion of the name christ. A trick of the devil, especially as the real “antichrist” is expected on the scene any time now. Only he won’t be anti-Christ. He will be FOR Christ. And Christians will be on his side.

    There are more than three chips in the chocolate chip cookies. God has more than three names and character traits – he has many. You’re selling him short.

  53. poohpity says:

    An egg has a shell, yoke and white and together they form the egg. The Godhead has the Father, Son and Holy Spirit each are distinct persons with distinct jobs for lack of a better term but yet are God. (That is not an all inclusive meaning)

    It seems many of us here are not stumbling on the word Christ it seems that is where you have the problem. I can not speak for anyone else or maybe I can when I say one can not have Jesus without Christ being attached in the same sentence, thought, faith, reason, description or mission and that we share in common on this particular site. That is who we feel He is!!

    It is fine to disagree and thank you for sharing your version of what you believe the bible says. It is an unusual perspective. So you feel you are being a good example of Jesus the man and can reach perfection? How do you achieve that?

  54. poohpity says:

    “That is who we feel He is!!” Was wrong, “that is who we know He is”!!

  55. confeticat says:

    You must be born again. (John 3:7)

  56. poohpity says:

    Yes, one needs to be born again of the Spirit, when they are, they can acknowledge the identity of who Jesus Christ is and what he has done for all of mankind.

  57. confeticat says:

    As he was speaking, a woman in the crowd called out, “God bless your mother–the womb from which you came, and the breasts that nursed you!
    Jesus replied, “But even more blessed are all who hear the word of God and put it into practice” (Luke 11:27,28).

  58. remarutho says:


    May we all seek to lay hold of the treasures of the Holy Scriptures more and more as the day draws near! Psalm 34:8

    Got milk?


  59. poohpity says:

    Our perfection comes because God looks at us through the blood of the lamb but we still sin while we are tied to these perishable bodies. Do we wake up everyday and plan on sinning I hope not and that is not our plan but it happens as described by Paul in the 7th Chapter of Romans. We are not perfect but the longer that we abide or live with Christ daily in a vital union we are transformed.

  60. poohpity says:

    We are given the Great Commission as a command as well as loving God and loving others as we love ourselves.

  61. poohpity says:

    Gee, I would love to say that we are all perfect examples of what Christianity looks like but we are not and that is why our focus needs to be on Jesus, we need to point people to Jesus and if we were perfect example the focus would be on us. That may seem like rhetoric but most people want to much focus on them in many, many ways and Jesus gets lost.

  62. kingdomkid7 says:

    Several years ago there was a bumper sticker that said “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven.”Maybe others saw it. I think it went some way toward explaining in a short expression what the world needs to hear and we need to remember about our walk with Jesus. My Bible says the word “perfect” (when it is describing what we must be)is a synonym for “mature.”And just as none of us is born mature, and it takes some of us longer to get there, it’s good to know that our God is a forgiving God. Our spiritual growth is a process as is our growth in the natural. Sometimes we beat ourselves up for our mistakes, and sometimes we beat up others for theirs. But we all need to grow, and we all need our merciful God to forgive us when we do mess up. We need our Holy Spirit to do work and perform surgery on us to transform us into the likeness of Jesus. I’m just glad God is patient and always working in us. I suppose I’d like to see the bumper sticker again.

  63. foreverblessed says:

    Confeticat, you did not answer my question. That how it is that you see that when Jesus says stern things: Be you perfect, that He meant that it must be done in His strength. But when Paul is saying the same things that you say, he meant it we do it in our own strength. You dismissed it by saying Galatians 2:20, Paul lives in Christ, and Christ is an imposter. So there you are in a loop hole. Running around in circles.
    Jesus is the Christ, as many have already shown, and the exhortations Paul did, had to be seen in the same light as all the exhortations of Jesus in the Gospel: Like loving our enemies, we know we cannot do that in our own love, we need to ask God’s love. And so it is with everything Paul admonishes, it must be done by asking in faith for the power of the risen Jesus Christ, (sorry that is the risen Jesus Christ, one and the same person) Ephesians 1:17,18,19,20,21,22,23.
    It is only so difficult to live in that power, we want to do things ourselves, we try ourselves, that is our human pride. And in church history, that is what happens again and again. So hard to stop it. But as long as we say we Want to live in His strength, we slowly grow in humility and living in His strength.

    So there you are, the church has grown wrong many times, your resolution is: that is because of Paul’s preaching, and that is because the Christ was inserted, Christ as you say the imposter.
    Instead of admitting that the human power of the church has interpreted living in Christ in the wrong way. Admitting we tend to be doing things in our own strength. We should be saying sorry for that, and asking God to fill our hearts with His truth. So we will live in His power, the same power by which Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead.

  64. SFDBWV says:

    Confeticat, well if nothing else you have brought the blog to life and given all us *Christians* an opportunity to express our faith.

    What is it exactly that you consider yourself to be, spiritually speaking?

    In Acts 11: 26 we see that the *Disciples* were here at this place and time first called *Christians*.

    The Concordance explains Christ as Khris-tos, anointed the Messiah an epithet of Jesus and Christians as Khris-tee-an-os, follower of Christ;

    An epithet is an adjective or noun used to characterize a person.

    So since the beginning the disciples and followers of Jesus of Nazareth have been called Christians.

    Christianity, a modern word, is defined as Christians collectively as well as the Christian religion based on the Old and New Testament.

    Found in the Old Testament and personified in the New Testament is the Messiah, He is Jesus of Nazareth. His life, death and resurrection are proof and evidence that He is the Messiah the Christ.

    The Church or Body of Christ is made up of all believers, believers being *Christians*. The assembly of believers are known as churches and if you look in Revelation 1: 11 you will see that it is God/Son/Holy Spirit that is speaking to 7 churches and if you look in Revelation 2 and 3 you will see what it is He has to say.

    It is for Him, Christ, to judge the churches; not you or I.

    Confeticat you have been fed a serious poison and it has defiled and corrupted your soul, the blame is not as much on you as it is on the ones who have poisoned you. Pray that God opens your eyes and heart to the Truth of Scripture, accept Jesus as Lord and be at peace. This is my prayer for you.


  65. confeticat says:

    Forever Blessed – I know Jesus didn’t say “Be perfect” sternly because I know Jesus. I know how he said it to me. He knows there’s no way we can be perfect, IN HIS STRENGTH OR OUR OWN. He loves us too much to ask us to do something that can’t be done. I didn’t dismiss anything. I don’t think you all would be putting up this strong an argument if I were denying the Messiah. There’s something about “the Christ” that you want to hang on to, for the wrong reasons. He lets you continue in the loophole of making excuses, keeping pet sins and then blowing them away like a candle on a birthday cake. This grieves your heavenly Father. if “the human power of the church has interpreted living in Christ the wrong way”, why hasn’t ‘Christ’ made himself more clear? Jesus is not the head of the Church – he seeks individuals.

    KK – The last thing you need is a bumper sticker with the excuse, “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven.” Even though it may be true, it’s nothing to brag about.
    “Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled, and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.” That is Jesus’ way.
    I have two bumper stickers on my car. I’m not recommending this, it’s just a little test run. One says “Do you follow Jesus this close?” and the other “Too many Christians – not enough lions.” There have been several reactions, and as you can imagine all of them took it the wrong way. One lady apparently thought I was making fun of Jesus too. She pulled me over and whispered in an excited voice, “I like your bumper stickers” and told me about a bumper sticker that said “born again” and someone she knew telling the driver “I was born OK the first time”. She laughed in a knowing way, like I would appreciate the joke. There is the world’s reaction. Another guy was passing out fliers for his cult (or maybe SDA)in the parking lot and said he liked my bumper stickers and handed me a flier. Then he went back and looked at them again, came back and said “On second thought, I don’t like them.” and jerked the paper out of my hand. There you have the Church reaction.

    Not even the Holy Spirit can transform you as you are into the likeness of Jesus. Jesus never asks us to be transfoemed into his likeness anyway.

  66. confeticat says:

    Steve, I don’t call myself anything. I never thought about it before.

  67. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends!

    As the 6th c. BC dawned, General Sennacherib wrote to King Hezekiah of Judah: “Say to Hezekiah king of Judah: Do not let the god you depend on deceive you when he says, ‘Jerusalem will not be handed over to the king of Assyria.’” (Isaiah 37:10)

    Sennacherib believed he had the gods of all religions in his pocket, and that he was invincible. Judah was near to receiving the chastisement of God, but Sennacherib was in error. The Lord spoke to the prophet Isaiah with a message for Sennacherib:
    “But I know where you stay
    and when you come and go
    and how you rage against me.
    Because you rage against me
    and because your insolence has reached my ears,
    I will put my hook in your nose
    and my bit in your mouth,
    and I will make you return
    by the way you came.” (Isaiah 37:28, 29)

    Then, the angel of the Lord went out and put to death 185,000 men in Sennacherib’s camp. The Assyrian general returned to his own land in disgrace. He returned to Nineveh and stayed there. (2 Chronicles 32:21, 22; 2 Kings 19:35, 36)

    Both the individual and the nation need to know “when to hold ‘em and know when to fold ‘em.”

    May the Lord add his blessing to the reading of His word this morning!

  68. poohpity says:

    I do not believe life has been brought back to the blog. It just another commenter who has been able to carry the topic in the direction opposite of what we are discussing but yet is showing the truth of the topic. It is like gathering around a kitchen table talking about something then a person comes in the room not knowing or caring what the people are talking about and carries the discussion in the direction they think is important. Rather than showing the attitude of respect by sitting down and listening for a while then talking about the conversation. So all eyes are on them and no one else counts. It has been done many times before and has always worked so the lesson of the Gambler has yet to be learned, lol.

    How can you play a card game until the dealer has named the game. It is like putting a puzzle together without the box to show you what the picture looks like. You can put the outside together because those pieces have definite edges but when it comes the body if you do not have the box then you do not know what pieces fit where in the context of the whole. With the bible if you do not have the foundation (box) then all the pages do not fit together to form a whole. It then can be taken apart and scriptures really have no relevance on the context of the whole thing. Then you have no way of putting it together to understand.

    How can you make someone understand, sometimes you have to walk away until the Lord opens their eyes and no matter how much input if the basics are not there it is useless and it is time to run away.

  69. confeticat says:

    OK, Pooh, Jesus is naming the game. He’s calling it Strip Poker. And I must say, you ARE a perfect example of what Christianity looks like.

  70. poohpity says:

    Thank you!!

  71. Sakoieta says:

    First of all I really applaud all of you on how strongly you hang onto your faith. Peter had this same type of conviction when he was going to approach Cornelius. God knew he was not humble enough or had his eyes opened enough to be able to work respectfully with Cornelius, a faithful man whom God accepted and honored. So before He would allow Peter to even touch Cornelius, God had Peter go through a transformation where He sent Peter many of the unclean things his Christian dogma told him are defiled and unclean. When Peter attempted to rebel God told him as straight as straight can be, “who are you to declare unclean what I have cleansed”? I believe this helped Peter come down off his self righteous high horse and to be able to present himself to Cornelius. His words were..”I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality. But in EVERY Nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to him”. What is right for the people who follow Jesus?? Micah spells it out when he says…”what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice, to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God”. Peter then and those with him were then even more amazed when while Peter is speaking to Cornelius thatthe Holy Spirit falls on all those listening to the message and even more the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles as well.

    Here is an excellent example of the work God calls people to do. It is interesting to note that it was not Cornelius who had to change his understanding of God but Peter a circumcised Christian. The faith that Cornelius had was good and honorable to God just not complete. Peter helped make that complete as much as meeting Cornelius made him understand his faith even more.

    I’ll take this hand of cards that Cornelius held any day and gamble that there will be many people willing to play the game in that manner than if they just play with Peter’s set of rules.

  72. poohpity says:

    It was the Jewish law that held to what was unclean and not Christian dogma. God was purging Peter of religion that He grew up being taught, Jewish rules and regulations that the teachers of law held so fast to without the Spirit of it’s meaning.

  73. poohpity says:

    Peter had to let of of the old covenant of following the law to be open to the new covenant of being saved by grace not works because no one except Jesus was able to follow all the law and the foretelling of the prophets. Forcing people to follow the laws were what caused such harm to many peoples and still does. Only freedom of the law can help people to do good things with no restrictions. Like feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, water for the thirsty, protecting the widows and orphans, showing mercy, and seeking justice. No where does it imply following the Jewish laws which only lead to death and destruction.

  74. poohpity says:

    The law needed to be folded and grace needs to be held onto.

  75. confeticat says:

    Welcome here, Sakoieta!

    “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say unto you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished” (Matt. 5:17,18)

  76. kingdomkid7 says:

    confeticat, I think you are just trying to be provocative. I join Steve’s prayer for you. I urge you to re-read God’s Word with an open heart and mind, and God will deliver you from the deception that has you rejecting Him and His power to change you by the Holy Spirit, shed abroad in the hearts of all believers through Jesus’s magnanimous death on the cross.

  77. confeticat says:

    Thank you for your prayers, but they don’t change what Jesus says.

  78. poohpity says:

    Thank you confeticat for putting the scripture to what I was saying.

  79. confeticat says:

    The law is not the problem. Even Paul acknowledged that (Rom. 7:7).

  80. poohpity says:

    kingdomkid7, how have you risen above prejudices and the horrible things done to people of color? Those who did it in the name of Jesus when that is not what He taught at all. I admire your ability to forgive and not hold others accountable for the ignorance of a few. You obviously knew when to fold em.

  81. foreverblessed says:

    Confeticat, you believe what you want, it is between you and God. But telling other christians to forsake Christ and going after Jesus sounds a bit odd, to say the least. I leave it with you. God bless you much and much.

    Maru, in line with what you wrote: what about Psalm 2:1-2,3-4,5

  82. poohpity says:

    No the law was not the problem it was meant to show us what sin is only then can we not look at what others do to break it but at what we each do to break it. That then humbles us at the foot of the Cross. (Matt 7:1,2,3,4,5 NLT)

  83. foreverblessed says:

    Psalm 2:6-7,8-9,12

  84. confeticat says:

    Micah 6:8 was spoken before Jesus came. That was Cornelius. Jesus gave more Light, he was the embodiment of those traits and more. But you’re right, Peter had spent time with Jesus and still needed fine-tuning.

  85. confeticat says:

    Unfortunately Paul went on to blow the true statement he made in Rom. 7:7. In Gal. 3:19 he said “Why then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised”. The Child who was promised was of course Jesus who said he didn’t do away with the law.

  86. Sakoieta says:

    So excuse me for being a dumb Indian but one question I have then that comes from my experience is what is the difference between Jewish law and denominational laws? Cornelius was honored by God as a believer. Didn’t matter if this is Old Testament or New? Are you denying then that Jesus did not come to fulfill the laws of God as He put forth in the Old Testament. As Indian people, in my experience, we have never been given the choice to choose. We have been held accountable for not only the new but also the old. Reading your posts Poohpity, excuse my ignorance here, but the way I read it, it is as if the Old Testament laws no longer count or apply when held against the New Testament revelations. If they are no longer relevant why do ministers and mission workers refer to them as much as they do and insist that we follow them to the letter? I think that is all I have tried to do when I post, is to try to assist people in seeing the need to purge themselves of denominational law that hurts and kills and is as out of touch with the message of Jesus as you claim Old Testament law was and is. The rules of the denominational church are clearly, again only from my lifelong experience, very different from Biblical teaching. Educate me please.

  87. Sakoieta says:

    Sorry I should have addressed my post to Poohpity.

  88. kingdomkid7 says:

    Funny you should ask that question, Pooh, because the answer explains why I know that confeticat is playing a game when he denies the power of God to change a person. God changed me from being someone who never forgave anybody for ANYTHING into someone who can forgive. I had no desire to change and even counted myself an atheist, then an agnostic. I was angry with God for letting bad things happen to me, to my family and to all “oppressed people.”i was hard-hearted about these things, but I was clueless about the state of my heart. I thought I was doing just fine because I had managed to “overcome” being poor and black. Jesus had to hunt me down, because I was running from Him! Long story short, He saved me, and I had to reexamine everything. My politics changed, my whole life changed. I forgave my father who tried to kill me; I forgave my former husband who tried to do the same thing. More recently I forgave my nephew who caused my mother’s death, and who was charged with homicide but got off. Make no mistake: on my own, I could not forgive any of this. It takes the power of God to make you friends with people who tried to kill you. To God be the glory!! I hope this answers the question at least somewhat. I’ve left out a lot. I have surrendered all to Jesus Christ, and I’m in His tribe, like you. There simply is no other. And there is no other path to peace. None.

  89. confeticat says:

    Sak, don’t ask Pooh to educate you. You said you are an educator. I should have explained that this is Strip Poker for Dummies. I don’t know the difference between Jewish law and denominational laws, you’ll have to ask a Jew and a member of whatever denomination it is. God’s Law is in the Old Testament. Cornelius was a believer in God, but he hadn’t heard about Jesus. We are not held accountable for how much we know of the new OR the old. We are held accountable for what we do with Jesus.

  90. confeticat says:

    KK – You’ve misunderstood me. I have never denied the power of God to change a person. He changed me too. I don’t doubt that he changed you, but are you free to go back to your old ways if you wanted to?

  91. poohpity says:

    You are not an dumb Indian, I would never refer to anyone as dumb, you just being a man says it all, lol. Just kidding. No you are completely right when you talk about denominational influences as well as adherence to OT laws. I have always wondered how people who are freed from the consequences of not following the OT law then turn around and try and live under them again as well as expecting others to do the same. I do not understand that. I can not educate you when I do not know that either.

    In the OT when one admitted to breaking those laws God provided a way of forgiveness. One could go offer a sacrifice for the forgiveness of whichever sin one committed(different sacrifices for different sins) and then that sin was figuratively place upon the head of a scape goat that was then sent into the wilderness. Jesus was all those OT sacrifices wrapped into one.

  92. poohpity says:

    When we commit one in today’s time right when it happens we just go to Jesus and ask Him to forgive us because He was the final sacrifice.

    Thank you kingdomkid, trust that I understand completely and thank you for sharing how you overcome anger and revenge in Christ Jesus or you would be still held captive to those people who did such harm.

  93. kingdomkid7 says:

    Actually, confeticat, you did deny the power of the Holy Spirit to change people. At least that is what I heard. Your ending question is, of course, provocative. I choose not to answer it as the answer is obvious to anyone in Christ. I really do not want to argue or play word games. The Holy Spirit wiped those urges clean out of me, Praise God! Let’s just speak the truth in love to one another. And get on with doing our Father God’s business.

  94. poohpity says:

    You know Sakoieta, maybe it has to with control, that is the only thing I can think of.

  95. Sakoieta says:

    Poohpity, I am just asking questions to have my blinders removed. LOL. See one question that comes to mind is if Cornelious had died before he met Peter, being a man who followed his religious beliefs as much as he knew, would he have been with God in his death or been damned. This is also something the Missionaries always told us that it did not matter if we lived righteous lives following the revelations we had received from the Creator. All of our ancestors were burning in hell because they were not Christians. But then again I have to ask Confeticat following up on your comment, the “we are accountable for what we do with Jesus”. If Jesus was presented as one who sanctioned abuse, and terrible atrocities and the only way our people can embrace a faith again is to return to honoring the Creator as Cornelius did. Does God honor that as He did with Cornelius? I believe He does. Comments?

  96. Sakoieta says:

    Oh sorry. Raise you and call! LOL.

  97. Sakoieta says:

    Oh also Confeticat on the other posts Giving facts a Chance, I just think Poohpity and I were doing a bit of misunderstanding and I want to make sure I give her the chance to let me see where I was misunderstanding her.

  98. confeticat says:

    You asked a tough question. Your people worship a Creator, all people have the desire to worship something. Paul says your people are responsible, and Cornelius would have been accountable had he not heard of Jesus (Rom. 1:20). Jesus would not lump your people together, but would look at each one individually. Did that person understand what he heard? Did he accept or reject the part he understood? “A servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. But someone who does not know…will be punished only lightly” (Luke 12:47,48). But there may be more to this than we know. All judgment has been given to the Son (John 5:22).

  99. poohpity says:

    Well I do not think that Cornelius was a Jew to begin with but a Roman he was doing godly things so God sent an angel to him that was why Peter was sent for. I do not know only that salvation was for everyone even the gentiles which the Jews only thought it was for them so there breaking the first mold even tho in the OT anyone who wanted to join Israel and follow their God could.

    Some of those questions are only for God to answer, ask Him and he will give you wisdom. I do not think that whenever anyone causes harm it is from God but a zealous attempt to do what they may have thought was the right things to do. Jesus asked us to forgive our enemies and do good to them even if they never admit to doing wrong.

    In my search for wisdom I have found that even though natives in North America as well as peoples in other parts of the World are given knowledge of God in their daily practices. I have understood that because I believe that all the continents were one at the beginning until they were separated because the earth is always changing and all peoples of the world have common ancestry so making us all relatives.

  100. Sakoieta says:

    Another question. How do we then work with our people especially if the Jesus that was presented to them was a false Jesus? I would think then if they are responsible and accountable for either accepting the message or rejecting it this would also include understanding not only what is heard but what is seen by deeds that are done. Unless somehow we can help them to be able to reconnect to a loving Creator or the Father, how does reconciliation start?

  101. Sakoieta says:

    I am very strong in my faith as well. I see the daily evidence of walking in a good and sacred way with my Creator. I am just asking questions here to make sure I am understanding what people are saying and making sure I give them the chance to be heard. I cleaned my ears so there is no wax build up there to cause a blockage and my eyes are 20/20. So I am ready to hear and see. :)

  102. foreverblessed says:

    “If Jesus was presented as one who sanctioned abuse, and terrible atrocities and the only way our people can embrace a faith again is to return to honoring the Creator as Cornelius did. Does God honor that as He did with Cornelius? I believe He does. Comments?” I might be dumb, but I do not understand the question

    About people not having known Jesus, there is a sense of good and bad in all people. If a person has lived a good life, has been there to serve others, not lived to please only himself despite of others, I do not believe these people are in hell. They followed the way of Jesus. Romans 2:14-15,16 Rev 20:12 If people who did not believe in Jesus when they died, would go to hell straightway, there would have been no need to judge what they have done in life. But their acts are judged, so there still must be a chance.

    Jesus showed His life lessons, the two great commandments, as a resume of the 10 commandments, love God above all and your neighbour as yourself, and the beautitudes, but we should not live a life because commandments urge us, but the love of God should prompt us, God’s love flowing through us to others. That is only possible if we are the branches and Jesus is the vine.

  103. Sakoieta says:

    Oh and I think I am holding a good hand and a good understanding of the game. I am ready to gamble with the hand I hold.

  104. poohpity says:

    I guess the only way is to walk what they talk. I trust that God will heal the damage done to their hearts by showing us all what is truly meant in Scripture if we just get out of the way and let God work. God is capable, as seen, we can really mess things up. God will send angels to help us all understand and hopefully will fill us with so much of Himself that the love and care will just pour out of us who claim Him as our God and creator.

  105. Sakoieta says:

    Foreverblessed, you have presented a statement that affirms why I believe our stories need to be told and heard. Not saying we are holding on to the past or past wrongs but unless people are made aware of things that have transpired in earlier times, how can they adequately address the present situation if they choose to work with us? Another question. I think before I explain anymore, my comments would be better on the other forum Giving Facts a Chance. I don’t want to take this one off it’s intended purpose.

  106. foreverblessed says:

    But if people who try to love their enemies, who try to do good to another, without knowing Jesus, how can God condemn them? I think as soon as they die, they meet Jesus, the Man of Light. They will hear then, there is only one King here, and that is Jesus.
    But this what I write is my hope.

  107. Sakoieta says:

    Poohpity, my dear, now we are talking the same language. Whe did you learn to speak Mohawk? LOL.

  108. Sakoieta says:

    Thank you Foreverblessed. I believe you answered my question very well. :)

  109. poohpity says:

    Gosh I do not know about anyone else but this is not a game to me. Look at all the hurt that is done and the damage of followers who lack real knowledge of truth and leave facts to others to teach them rather than going to the source and learning directly from God. Please read and know God’s Word so that when someone comes along saying that they teach truth you can see the cheaters and bluffers who will ask you to drink the kool-aid.

  110. Sakoieta says:

    Foreverblessed looks like you might be holding aces.

  111. confeticat says:

    I should add to my last post that you don’t have to worry, Sakoieta. With Jesus as the Judge everyone will get a fair shake.

    Pooh already came up with what I was going to tell you. God will send angels to preach the gospel in this end time. And this time it will be the complete gospel. (Matt. 24:14)

  112. Sakoieta says:

    Believe me Poohpity I am dead serious in the questions I am asking. I already have my own answers after dealing with these things for 57 years, but want to make sure I am hearing you. So if reading God’s word is something a person had to do while kneeling in front of a priest, not knowing enough english and being strapped for every mistake that was made in pronunciation. How does a person reconnect with the Creator by not ever wanting to touch a Bible again?.

  113. Sakoieta says:

    Confeticat, I am not worried in the least. I am very strong in my faith and very peaceful in my deeds. Again I am asking questions that now give more answers than just reading Bible verses being posted. I know what the Bible says, but I do not know what people really believe. There is often a very big difference. i thank you all for turning this into a good discussion rather than just a Bible study.

  114. Sakoieta says:

    This is what I call having defined what people have learned from Scripture or other sources of revelation of the Creator and applying it as they speak.

  115. confeticat says:

    Was that the Emmaus Road? I have heartburn.

  116. royalpalm says:

    Hello, I hope I can help with some of the items raised here…Sakoieta, I admire your questioning mind and your desire to know the truth so you can also help others, especially your own. Your questions are really very important and I have been asked about those things as well… The proper way of teaching is really to cover the high points of the Bible from Genesis to Jesus. Personally, I learned this not through the church but through personal study.

    I learned about “Firm Foundations – Creation to Christ” which New Tribes Mission uses to teach those who never heard about the Bible, Jesus, etc. I studied it and used it to teach groups of people who are interested in knowing the Word of God. (regardless of denomination, race, culture, etc.) Because the Word of God transcends culture, nationality, etc. it is neutral – we just faithfully present the truth and God will work in people’s hearts. God honors those who honor Him and I pray that you will find Him faithful as He promised.

  117. poohpity says:

    confeticat you can read about it in Luke 24:13-35

  118. poohpity says:

    Actually it is you Sakoieta that has allowed it to be a good discussion.

  119. Sakoieta says:

    Royalpalm, I never have said that my people did not ever know about the Bible or hear about Jesus. Most have been preached to death by so many denominations they could probably recite the Bible from memory. But I asked a question, “If Jesus was presented as one who sanctioned abuse, and terrible atrocities and the only way our people can embrace a faith again is to return to honoring the Creator as Cornelius did. Does God honor that as He did with Cornelius? Please read my response to Poohpity about 5 posts up as well.

    Confeticat I am trying to be appropriate here with my posts. :)

  120. Sakoieta says:

    Poohpity, good discussions are always two sided or more. I just merely switched to asking questions in a language that most Christians understand. Very few are culturally competent or culturally and historically aware enough to have a discussion of the other issues.

  121. poohpity says:

    This site I have enjoyed because it is about the bible and life application, it is not an open forum, it stays enjoyable when we talk about the topics presented and seeing how all inclusive they can be.

  122. poohpity says:

    People are more aware than you think, about world wide issues, not just in our backyards. As far as knowing the bible many who claim they know it have never read it. Bible illiteracy in our churches is 89% only 11% have read it.

  123. poohpity says:

    Yep we are so ignorant. I wish we could all be as well traveled, educated and aware of more cultures than our own as you are. ROFL

  124. royalpalm says:

    Sakoieta, I am sorry, if I implied that your people have not heard about Jesus or the Bible – what I was trying to say, is that to start fresh. From your story, it is obvious that your people were not taught the truth as revealed in the Scriptures, and this is true even today.

    (My people – I am Asian, have been subjugated for more than 400 years in the name of “Christianity”). When I study the Bible I learn that a lot of what “Christian” organizations/denominations/churches teach are not always the truth. The simple message of God has been diluted with power, abuse, greed, money, politics, etc. .. God has been blasphemed by people claiming to be His followers more than by people who do not know Him- through their deception.

    So what is the core teaching of the book of God? I mentioned” Firm Foundations – Creation to Christ
    because it covers these , which every person should know:

    1.“God’s nature and character
    2.Man’s sinful state and separation from God; (man’s sinfulness, helplessness, and hopelessness)
    3.God’s grace, presence and activity through history
    4.Christ as the promised Redeemer and His all-sufficient saving work on man’s behalf through his death, burial, and resurrection.

    My duty is to share this truth faithfully and let the person decide for himself. It is God’s work and He is the One who will convince people to turn to Him.

  125. confeticat says:

    Sakoieta. I know what you’re asking, and before I attempt to answer it, this is something I just saw along the same lines. It is called “8 ways Christian Fundamentalists Make People Convert —to Agnosticism or Atheism”:
    1, Gay Baiting
    2. Prooftexting (II Tim. 3:16 – circular argument)
    3. Misogyny – sexism in the church
    4. Hypocrisy
    5. Disgusting and Immoral Behavior
    6. Science Denial
    7. Political Meddling
    8. Intrusion

  126. confeticat says:

    Sakoieta, going back to Forever Blessed’s post at 4:07, “if a person has lived a good life, has been there to serve others, not lived to please himself despite of others, I do not believe these people are in hell.” Then I would ask him, how can God let them into heaven? Our sin cannot come into the presence of a holy God. We must be reconciled to God, that is, agree with him about our sin. These people may have lived good lives, but they still fall short as we all do. Jesus said, “To those who use well what they are given, even more will be given. But from those who do nothing (or turn back), even what little they have will be taken away,”(Luke 19:26). We think of that as for believers, but applying it to your people, there is information in those Bibles that they studied and memorized on how to deal with even the awful things they had to deal with. Jesus told them to come unto him, and he would give them rest, and much more. Those who turned back to their old religion after knowing the truth will be held responsible. Becaue people don’t find Jesus because they see him in the person who tells them. If that is the reason they come, they are going to be disappointed in that person eventually. Jesus didn’t have good PR. Nathaneal said, “Nazareth! Can anything good come from Nazareth?” “Come and see for yourself”, Philip replied.(John 1:46). Philip wasn’t pointing to himself, he pointed to Jesus. Now you said the missionaries told them it doesn’t matter what kind of lives they lead. That boggles my mind, BUT again God’s word which you said they had contradicts that, and his word is powerful, exposing our innermost thoughts and desires. Then too I have heard of Muslims who had never heard of Jesus, and he came to them in a vision and they believed in him. It’s rare but it happens. So to the hungry heart he makes a way.

  127. royalpalm says:

    Hello,foreverblessed,re your post July 10, 2012 at 4:07 pm
    Romans 2:14-15 speaks of people who do not know the law yet have sinned, despite not knowing the law.

    In fact the theme of Romans from Rom. 1:18 to Rom. 3:20 is that no one is righteous for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Rom. 3:23) and the punishment for sin is death .(spiritual, physical and eternal(Rom. 6:23)
    EVERYONE is under God’s wrath because God is righteous and holy. This same righteous character of God lead Him to send His Son to save us by declaring us righteous through our faith in Jesus Christ.Rom.3:21,22,23,24,25, 26

    One of the great themes of the book of Romans is that we ALL need to hear the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, Rom 1:16

    The Bible clearly says that Salvation is through Jesus Christ alone-there is no other name given by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12

    That is why God sent Peter to Cornelius; though he was devout and worshipped God, he needed to hear the gospel of Christ inorder to be saved.

  128. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you Royalpalm, Confeticat for adding what I left out. During the night I thought, the main part still has to be said, and it already has. I did not say people can go to heaven who did not accept Christ. I said, people can still meet Jesus when they have died and can still accept Him, that is if their lives on earth have been good, helpful to others serving others. They still need to be cleansed from sin, because as you wrote Romans 3:23
    Jesus is the Door to heaven, all have to pass through Him, accepting Him as their Saviour, being cleansed from their sins by His blood. Without blood of Jesus, their is no cleansing of sins.
    I am a christian, an ambassador for Jesus Christ. on this blog we preach Jesus Christ as the Saviour.
    But we cannot make people realise they have sinned, the Holy Spirit gives the conviction of sin.

    I would say: do not gamble and wait till you are dead to accept Jesus, accept Him now, while you are still alive. Today you can ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you, the real one. The loving one, the one who does not abuse, the one who is not hypocritical. The One who came to earth and died for your sins so to make you righteous in God’s eye, the righteousness and glory of Jesus that we put on through faith in Jesus. Then we do not fall short of the glory of God anymore and can enter heaven.

  129. confeticat says:

    Forever Blessed: People cannot accept Jesus after they die (Heb. 9:27). Paul promoted that error in I Cor. 15:29. That is where praying to dead saints comes from. What you didn’t do in life remains undone (Matt. 16:19). Jesus is the Door to heaven, but comparatively few find it (Matt. 7:13,14). You can be saved and forgiven and still never find that Door. You find it by becoming like a child (Luke 18:16,17).

  130. foreverblessed says:

    “People cannot accept Jesus after they die (Heb 9:27).” The verse you quote says that people will be judged after they die. Question I have: will there be no mercy on the day of Judgment?
    If people are judged according to what they have done on earth, and they see on that judgment day that they have sinned, and they ask for mercy in Jesus’ name, how can we say that God will be telling them: well sorry, too late now.
    But as I am saying: do not gamble, accept Jesus now as your Saviour. Let all your sins be cleansed today!

  131. SFDBWV says:

    I very much enjoyed this mornings “Daily Bread” I hope you all have had a chance to read it.

    For me, being a confessing Christian, I have learned to Know God from several sources. First of all by instruction from people I trusted, then to searching into the only written accounting I was exposed to, The Bible.

    What the Bible taught me and continues to teach me is that God is also exposed by all of His creation. As I have also stated earlier in this subject God speaks to us through the mouths of others and when we hear truth it is recognized.

    The same can be said when we hear un-truths we recognize that as well.

    Again for me, I attribute this ability to discern between truth and falsehoods by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, not from my own perspectives. Though sometimes there is a battle between which voice I listen to.

    Thinking about what items (cards) in life to throw away I think Kingdomkid7 gave an excellent example by stating that she had to discard anger, unforgiveness, bitterness and resentments in her life in order to have peace by keeping the best item in life Jesus the Christ center in her heart.

    Reading the comments here I can see there are still resentments and anger and bitterness being held onto by some while looking for God and seeking truth.

    These bad feelings clog up our senses and often blind us to the truth, so it is crucial for us to rid ourselves of these crippling sentiments and move on into the healing presence of Jesus of Nazareth the Christ.

    Yes sometimes ridding ourselves of the weight of unforgiveness can seem like we are giving up who we are, but that is what is required of us, to give up who we are in order to become who God wants us to be.


  132. confeticat says:

    Forever Blessed: “Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then he will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from'” (Luke 13:25).

  133. confeticat says:

    I’m holding a fantastic hand. I want Forever Blessed to take off the robe of righteousness he was wearing at 1:58 AM.

  134. tracey5tgbtg says:

    When I read Luke 13:22-30, I see a person asking Jesus if only a few will be saved. Jesus doesn’t answer the question directly, but points out that those who think they will be let in on their own merit, because they made the “right” decision to hang out with Jesus, will be turned away. Jesus doesn’t know them.

    He goes on to say that just because you were born a Jew doesn’t guarantee anything as people from other nations do have a place.

    I don’t see anything to say that “the owner of the house shutting the door” equals death of the body. There is a final judgment after death. I see nothing that says you can’t humble yourself before God when you meet Jesus face to face and see Him as He really is.

    In fact, I see that some when they meet Jesus will realize that they never knew Him at all; they had never surrendered to Him before, although they walked around on earth proclaiming they had God all figured out and that they were doing what needed to be done.

  135. Sakoieta says:

    Poohpity, I am not as well traveled as you think and do not know as much about world cultures as your somewhat snide statement suggests. But as for the cultural history of the U.S. and Canada. Darn straight. Only because our people have lived through the lies, deceptions, land theft and genocidal activities in regards to the development of these two countries. You said it yourself, there is an ignorance, lack of accurate knowledge, and false assumptions that is revealed in many of these posts, especially in regards to the Native people of North America. I leave you with that so you can get back to your Bible study.

  136. confeticat says:

    Sakoieta, you’re picking on Pooh, and she’s not even here to defend herself (thank you for small blessintgs, Lord!) Tracey, if shutting the door is not death, then are you saying he will shut the door on some before they die? Heb. 6:4-6 bears that out only he is not shutting them out, they shut themselves out. He wants us to meet him face to face and see him as he really is NOW, so that when he opens the door he will know you, and you will know him.

  137. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed I have come to know you to be a warm and sensitive lady and I understand your steadfast desire that none should be lost or suffer separation from God.

    I, as you know, pray for the dead. Not because of ignorance but because it just may be that God will yet honor my prayers on behalf of another and keep that soul safe. It is an expression of love and would be a great tragedy if I did not and could have.

    So I leave the matter to God and am at peace with it.

    Sakoieta it has been good to read your thoughts once again.


  138. confeticat says:

    Steve, if you want to waste your time praying for the dead that’s up to you. Jesus said to redeem the time because the days are evil. He was never warm and fuzzy when it was time to tell the truth.

  139. tunde4bami says:

    Thank God for BTA family.I am a new member ,but I have been reading BTA for long.The postings and the comments draw me closser to God and my savior Jesus Christ every day.Churches these days are full of distractions!!!

  140. SFDBWV says:

    Confeticat, thank you for allowing me to spend my time as I see fit. Yes Jesus was almost always direct. One of the tings He said is what comes out of your mouth is what is in your heart.

    I have been reading your comments as have all others; what do you think others see is in your heart.

    We are off to the doctors today and will not be back to the BTA blog until tomorrow, God’s blessing on you all.


  141. royalpalm says:

    Your July 11, 2012 at 7:31 am post is arrogant and full of pride…I quote” I’m holding a fantastic hand. I want Forever Blessed to take off the robe of righteousness he was wearing at 1:58 AM.”

    It reminded me of the Scriptures where such exalted self were displayed:1) Zedekiah in 1 Kings 22 2) Lucifer in Isa. 14:13,14 One thing I learned from the Bible is this: people who are close to God recognize how insignificant they are.

    foreverblessed, your faith, wisdom, kindness, prayers, and love are God’s blessings to us here in BTA; your posts always encourage me in my own walk with the Lord. Thank you…

  142. confeticat says:

    We were playing Strip Poker here. If you didn’t get in on that, I’m sorry.

  143. poohpity says:

    Me thinks there is nothing wrong with ignorance because we are all ignorant of many things. I think the problem comes from those who do not admit they do not know things but speak as if the do. Some speak of things to wonderful or glorious for us to understand but think they know, understand and have it all down but are clueless. Some accuse others when they are guilty of that themselves.

    Then are those who admit they have much to learn, they lack understanding, they are weak, they could be wrong and have done wrong to others. Those who do not put their selves on a pedestal and point others to God and do not try and be god to everyone around them.

    One is pride the other is humility and others normally can see which category one falls under if you pay attention even if a person does not recognize it themselves. We have blinders on when it comes to our own behavior but the things we normally wrestle with we easily see in others. Gamblers usually can read the other players because they have been there themselves and can recognized the signs or have spent time getting to know the other players.

    It seems in most of peoples belief systems that syncretism has crept in while no one was paying attention and is lingering around.

  144. confeticat says:

    Not being familiar with the word “syncretism”, I looked it up in the dictionary and lo and behold, that’s exactly what I’ve been saying! It’s the combination of different forms of belief or practice, or the fusion of two or more forms. That’s the Church with its fusion of Jesus and Christ.

  145. poohpity says:

    Different names same person, you can not have one without the other! (John 1:41; John 4:24,25,26) Where in scripture do you read of a separation or are you just being argumentative and weird?

  146. poohpity says:

    If you say you believe Jesus then in John 4:26 He says he is The Christ.

  147. poohpity says:

    John 8:24

  148. confeticat says:

    ‘Christ’ was added to the Bible by the Church. The first verses you mentioned, Pooh, particularly John 1:41 and John 4:25 are key because the first was Andrew telling Peter that they had found the Messiah. These were Jews, they wouldn’t have been interested in a Christ at that time. The second was the woman at the well, a Samaritan woman. Samaritans were a mixed race of Jews and pagans, they would not have benn interested in a Christ either. As we have established that they were first called Christians at Antioch, the word would not have come into the conversations of anyone in Jesus’ day. The Jewish leaders made fun of Jesus in John 7:35. “Maybe he will even teach the Greeks!” they mocked.

    In the last verse, John 8:24, Jesus said, “Unless you believe that I AM who I claim to be, you will die in your sins.” He is the great I AM who I AM (Exodus 3:14). He is 100% God, in Hebrew YHWH, rendered Lord and his name Yeshua means “YHWH saves.”

  149. royalpalm says:

    Pooh, thanks. Many years ago when I was with the Campus Crusade for Christ- going out and sharing about the Lord, I learned this valuable rule: “Success in witnessing is simply taking the initiative to share Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit and leaving the results to God.”
    I have a JW co-teacher who always asks spiritual questions; I write the answers from the Scriptures but he cannot see the truth in them.; he still clings to his views… Not a surprise to me , 1 Cor. 2:14, Some members of my own family are the same…very religious but their knowledge is based on traditions and man’s ideas. It is God who opens minds to spiritual truth so let us just commit them to Him who desires them to know Him.

    Also thanks to your 10:22 a.m. post today. I pray that as I put my own thought here, it is with the conscious awareness that I am an ambassador of Christ who rightly uses the word of God and who at the end of the day can say…”I am just an unworthy servant who did my job” Luke 17:10

  150. poohpity says:

    Where did you read “Christ was added to the bible by the church”? I have a bible that goes back to 1611 and “Christ” was there so when was it added? The New Testament is the same as it has always been only 2% has been lost in translation since it was written in the First Century A.D.E. by being very carefully translated not verse by verse but LETTER FOR LETTER. The meaning however has never changed. You may be interested in a program called “THE BIBLE:WHY DOES IT ENDURE? offered through dod dot org.. Which is where I referenced my information. Now share where you got the information about ‘Christ” being added to the bible by the church? Please answer that question.

    They may not have been looking but who in their right mind would have realized that the Christ spoken of in the OT would appear on the day He did to those that that were shunned by the religious leaders but He did to show that salvation was for everyone. Everything you wrote completely backed up what I was saying not your opinion about Jesus not being the Christ.

  151. phpatato says:

    Romans 14:1-10
    1 Timothy 6:4
    2 Timothy 2:14
    2 Timothy 2:23
    Titus 3:9
    James 4:1

    Romans 14:13 (Reading the whole chapter would be a good thing)

    Shouldn’t we be building each other up in love?

    Happy is that believer—who avoids bringing God’s judgment upon himself by insisting on the exercise of his “liberty (beliefs)” even though such insistence results in harming his fellow believer.

    Remember, each of us will stand personally before the judgment seat of God. Will you be able to say you HUMBLY helped your brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ or will you be confessing, to your horror, that you were a stumbling block.

    Note to Confeticat…I am sure you will quickly see that I too, believe that Jesus Christ is one and the same. God’s Son, the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, born of Mary, a carpenter’s son. Those two words are fused together FOREVER. But because you choose to separate them, it will only be when we are on bended knee before the throne of God, that either of us will know who was right. So shall we say that we will agree to disagree and peacefully go on our way……

  152. poohpity says:

    Not only that but you did not answer my question “Where in scripture do you read of a separation?”

  153. poohpity says:

    Guys are you telling me to fold em, lol. OK after I find out where confeticat got the information he shared if he ever answers that question because my curiosity has gotten the best of me of who would say and teach such things.

  154. royalpalm says:

    Oops re my 11:49 am post today … It should be “thoughts … and who must and should rightly use the word of God and who at the end of the day should say…”I am just an unworthy servant who did my job” Luke 17:10

    (English is not my native tongue and I apologize for incorrect usage, wrong grammar, etc. I have to read and re-read my post, yet I always miss something…)

    phpatato, thank you for these verses.

  155. confeticat says:

    I think you’ve been in Ophrah’s book club too long, Pooh. Why do you assume that I read it anywhere? Jesus showed it to me, not through Scripture so much as through the Church, though I hasten to add they never heard of it. I believed him and passed your own verses back to you to show you the separation in scripture. The addition was made long before 1611, probably around the third century and Constantine by some overzealous scribe or scribes. The New American Standard Bible is the most faithful to the original manuscripts but it’s in there too. Christ has not appeared anywhere and never will. My heart leaped when Jesus showed me. How much proof do you need?

  156. poohpity says:

    I also understand it not what I say but how I say it, thank you for holding me accountable.

  157. foreverblessed says:

    Indeed, what I wrote, is not the bible, it is what I hope, deep down inside me. I am well aware that Jesus has strong words, with doors shot, and many more of these. There is a purpose why Jesus uses such strong words. But when people write that after death there is no more hope, I say: Why no more hope when God’s mercy is everlasting. The door shot does that mean sent to hell? But maybe I shouldn’t. It makes some people lazy or make them gamblers, who think:” well there is always still a chance, I go on living my own life as I please now, Jesus can wait.”
    I was talking about people who did not know Jesus at all.
    And then there are people who know Jesus, who read the bible, but have a wrong impression because of wrong examples, like Sakoieta.
    With God everything is possible. So I pray: God be merciful to us all.

  158. confeticat says:

    Yes, Forever Blessed, God have mercy on us all. Paul warned us that he was crafty (II Cor. 12:16) and we went right ahead and just listened to what we wanted to hear.

  159. poohpity says:

    If that proof is in conflict with the written Word then it is not from God that is why it is so important to know the Word. You still have not given me proof of when it was changed. What you are saying is that Jesus is not the Savior of the world when The Christ is denied.

    I do not read anything from Ophrah’s book club, lol, quite the contrary I read the bible everyday of my life and have for over 18 years and still am learning everyday and do not know a lot. The reference I gave you was from a group that has devoted their life to finding out the authority, accuracy and endurance of the translated Word of God from it’s original text.

  160. confeticat says:

    It takes nothing away from Jesus but a parasite off his back. And I’m sure these scholars know a lot more about that than I do. I wasn’t there, and neither were you. The proof is in the pudding, not the chef.

  161. poohpity says:

    foreverblessed that is why we are given the Great Commission so that everyone will hear about Jesus before they die so we have to tell them but believing is up to the person who hears but our job is to tell everybody the Lord puts in our path. On places like this blog we are only talking about it to others who believe like preaching to the choir but people who never heard we need to be so excited about our faith we want to tell them and if we do not know any unbelievers than we are not doing what we are asked to do.

  162. foreverblessed says:

    Confeticat, after a few posts of you about Paul I get the impression you are saying that Paul is wrong. Do you mean to say that some verses must be taken out of the bible, like 1 Corinthians 15:29?
    And you say Jesus Himself has instructed you, saying that the Christ is not Him. And then your heart leaped, “what more proof so you need?”.
    You never thought: is this really Jesus or some spiritual entity claiming to be Jesus? I strongly get this feeling.
    My prayer for you is still Ephesians 1:16-17,18

    Kingdomkid, thank you very very much for you testimony. How beautiful, with God everything is possible. Lets pray for one another.

  163. phpatato says:


    God’s word and thus the verses that I posted are for EVERYONE’s perusal (meaning of the word perusal is:
    reading carefully with intent to remember)

    The shoe is a one size fits all….please, don’t take what I posted as being directed at you. We all do well by remembering those above verses while making rebuttals.

    Ecclesiates 10:12

    Ephesians 4:29

    Mark Twain was attributed this saying:

    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

  164. phpatato says:

    Ecclesiastes 10:12

  165. confeticat says:

    Thank you for your comments, Forever Blessed. Some verses taken out of the Bible? No, some BOOKS should be taken out of the Bible! But it’s too late for that now. God has another plan for this end time (which he has had all along). He tells his secrets to those in his Kingdom.

  166. confeticat says:

    Getting back to Stip Poker, I’ve already taken a few socks. I want your shoes too, phpatato.

  167. phpatato says:

    You assume confeticat that I wish to play your silly foolish game. You are wrong. But

    You think you have insulted me by typing this, but in order to show you that you have no power to insult me because I know to WHOM I belong, I will offer you my socks and shoes and my cloak.

    And with that…enough said! Throw your bait elsewhere my dear.

  168. confeticat says:

    I’m sorry that I offended you, phpatato.

  169. kingdomkid7 says:

    You’re right, foreverblessed. With God, all things are possible. Thanks!
    Confeticat, you must be careful to not think more highly of your thoughts and insights than they are due. The enemy is using a subtle trick with you of making you believe that you have special knowledge that no one else has, and that everybody who tries to correct you is wrong. Be careful.

  170. poohpity says:

    Thank you Pat, I love Twain’s saying and there are many in the book of Proverbs that reflect that same thought.

  171. poohpity says:

    The mission and purpose of Christ Jesus has been offended but He is big enough to come to His own defense and does not need our help although we feel the need to. I am sure over the centuries many have had convoluted thinking that the Lord had to redirect and probably chuckles at our feeble attempts.

  172. foreverblessed says:

    Lets pray for one another here on the blog, pray for the participants. I need a lot of grace from God, but I guess all of us do.

  173. SFDBWV says:

    I just want to say to all my BTA friends that my doctors appointment went off very well, it looks like I may live yet another day.

    It is a hard day for Matt to spend out of the comforts of the house, but it was marvelous that the staff at the cardiovascular center provided us with a special large room so Matt and Glenna could accompany me and not have to set in the waiting room and give me the opportunity to stand Matt up as he needed to stretch.

    I also like it when people make a fuss over him and allow him time to interact with someone other than me.

    Yesterday was a good day, I am very thankful for it and wished to share it with you all, as many of us have very few of them.


  174. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends!

    Thanks for the good word, Steve! There is much to be said for a good day. We are preparing to celebrate a 90th birthday with a woman in the community over here soon. She has seen 32,850 days, give or take! She has a million kilowatt smile — and loves getting up to a new day every day.

    What is there but to give a smile of our own to someone who doesn’t have one right now — a word of encouragement — a reminder that Jesus loves them?

    I rejoice in your good report from the cardiologist!

    God is so good to us.

  175. poohpity says:

    I can empathize with Matt having cabin fever but it is my own choice I have found just not getting out enough but Matt is stuck and my heart goes out to him as well as my prayers. I am so thankful Steve that you had a good report from the doc keep up the good work superman.

  176. InHisHands says:

    I haven’t gotten through all the comments on this topic – but I wanted to sign in and tell you BTA friends, you are in my prayers –

    Steve, So glad to read that the Dr. visit went well. It is nice to read that there are still places where the medical profession are a blessing to the WHOLE family. That Matt was able to enjoy his time out with you. Am continuing to pray for you.

  177. SFDBWV says:

    Thank you all for your love, support and understanding.

    God Bless

  178. SFDBWV says:

    Thinking of the song “The Gambler” reminded me of another old song, but as is often the case I can not remember the name of it. Though I often sing its chorus.

    “Tomorrow the sun’s gonna shine, shine, shine, tomorrow the sun’s gonna shine.”

    Similar to “The Gambler” it is a song being sung by a young drifter as he listens to and old weathered hobo talking about his belief that tomorrow will be a sunshiny day and similarly the old hobo dies then in his sleep that night.

    Gaining his bright and sunny tomorrow.

    Songs like these show the hope as well as the despair that all people everywhere can relate to.

    The Gambler uses what he has learned in life to know how best to play his cards, the old hobo has learned that there is comfort in looking forward to that bright sunny tomorrow.

    Both of the characters have had to learn from life the hard way instead of taking the advice of Scripture at a young age and escaping some of the pitfalls of life.

    Not that being Christian guaranties anyone an easy life, quite to the contrary; sometimes as we look forward to that bright sunny tomorrow all we can hope for is a peaceful exit from this world.


  179. poohpity says:

    When I trust in my own strength the cards dealt me look overwhelming and can bring a deep sense of depression, sorrow and sometimes even grief that I want to die in my sleep BUT every morning I get a new chance to trust in the dealer, not me. The circumstance may not change BUT how I face them does.

    I get to read the Word of God and spend time with God! I get to spend time with God, who would of thought! He is right here with me going through every card that is played. My joy is found in His salvation. This morning after many things that have just grieved me to the bone while reading Isaiah 12 it reminded me that God is with me, my Defender, my Hope, my Salvation and that alone brings praise to my heart.

    When I trust and rely on myself my focus is on me. My strength is gone and that is right where God wants me, to look to Him who can do all things but more importantly is the knowing and trusting that God has all the cards in His hands and each day I get to praise God for just being with this broken down shell of a person that God makes a point each day to teach me about His love. Praise the Lord, the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Mighty Counselor, Prince of Peace wants to spend time with me, wow!!! The very God who created this earth, sky and every living thing, when my focus is on Him then to just fall a sleep in His arms is the greatest sense of peace there is.

  180. poohpity says:

    God trusted me with this hand that was dealt to me. Wow!

  181. SFDBWV says:

    I very much enjoyed the opening statement from Mart in this topic; “How much of the world beyond has echoes, or reflections, in the world we know?”

    Actually I have always thought it reversed, that here in this world are the echoes and reflections of a more perfect existence there.

    I have read several of those books from people who claim to have been taken to heaven and their report though varying is intriguing.

    I have to wonder is there cattle and camels, flies and mosquitoes, bacteria or mold?

    What are the souls of trillions doing? Since there is no time as we understand it, do they sleep or even get tired and yawn? In fact do any of the creatures including mankind even breathe?

    Is there snow and spring rains, sunrises and cool breezes?

    Or is it that God created this existence for those purposes and that after removing sin from it that we all will be living here again in perfect harmony as God always intended?

    So that we could all enjoy the blessing of this world and even have a little game of cards once in a while?

    Foggy, cool and wet this morning here in the mountains, 59 degrees.


  182. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Yes, the whole mosquito thing has always bothered me. I will have questions, unless the sheer joy of God’s Presence ends all questions…

    Can I have a latte with Paul? Will I get to hear all the stories told by David — and Dorcas — and Daniel — themselves? Do I get to see the Urim & Thumim?


  183. phpatato says:

    I don’t care who you are, we all love doing something. Whether it is singing or playing an instrument, working in the dirt as a gardener, tending to animials, working with wood…there is something we really like doing that we don’t consider as a chore or job.

    I believe we will be given something to do – a task of some kind – in New Heaven, and it will be that thing (hobby is one word for it, passion is another) that we will be given to do. There will be mosquitoes but they will no longer be the pest and bite – for the lion will lie down with the lamb.

    And because we will all be living there together, I am looking forward to having a latte with you Maru, and sitting on a porch with you Steve watching the deer that saunter by.

    In fact, I am looking forward to the fellowship of all you BTA bloggers and I will be giving an extra big hug to you Mart.

  184. poohpity says:

    I fully believe that is one of the best ways to show that God is in us is by how many hugs we give. When people get ugly it is because they have not received enough hugs and do not feel loved.

  185. poohpity says:

    I do know that flies were sent as a plague on Egypt and I hope although I do not know but I doubt if we have any of that is in heaven since there is no more disease or sickness. The chain of life as we know it and the food chain will be back like it was when God gave man and animal alike every plant to eat before the fall (Genesis 1:29,30)

  186. poohpity says:

    Cows, pigs, chicken, fish and everything we kill will be allowed to live too!! Now mosquitoes, mold and bacteria all spread diseases so from what I read in scripture I do not think they will be there because no harm will come to us in the Father’s care. A perfect temperature and the only light will be from the presence of God so no sun to scorch us. (Rev 21:22,23,24,25,26,27). And a variety of fruit (Rev 22:1,2,,3,4,5)

  187. remarutho says:

    Yes, Pooh!
    I’m believing the avocado seeds will be smaller — and all the fruit and veggies will be consistently delicious! And, as you say, if we love to stay in the kitchen making berry pies, or cookies, or whatever — we may do that all we want to. Oh goody! Is that why we say something wonderful is “a little slice of heaven”?
    “What a fellowship, what a joy divine…” Maru

    PS Noticing how the photo, Mart, shows the wavy, distorted image of the trees on the shore — I tend toward believing our world is the reflection, while the eternal is the clear reality.

  188. poohpity says:

    Very good thought on the reflection.

  189. phpatato says:


    I know that there will be no bad thing in the new heaven and earth that our God will make, but is it not possible that mosquitoes, mold and bacteria will still exist but not in the harmful way as we know them? If the fierce and mighty king of the jungle is able to lie down next to a defenseless little lamb, is the thought of mosquitoes, that may in fact be harmless, beautiful and beneficial, be too far fetched to think? :-)

    Maybe you and I can let them land on us so we can study and examine them together.. As it is now, I won’t let them stay there long enough to even see their colouring. I think they’re brown??? lolololo

  190. poohpity says:

    No anything is possible! I just read in Rev 21;27 and know how many have died from their blood sucking adventures, lol! We now have good bacteria in our bodies that help with digestion, to go potty, so do we go potty in heaven, I do not know but if our bodies have been transformed to what would be heavenly bodies which we do not understand, who knows. Mold is formed from lack of light and will it be there where light is always present, I do not know that either but it would seem to be something unclean to me.

  191. poohpity says:

    Gee maybe I did TMI!! ooops. lol.

  192. foreverblessed says:

    Thinking of what we will do forever. Lately I was thinking, maybe we will be also busy with something we never think about, and don’t shoot me because I only hope we will do this what I am about to say. Because some people will say it is not in the bible, but I am hoping it will be so:
    At the end Revelation talks about all good things in heaven, but also the following sentence:
    -outside will be the dogs and sinners. Rev 22:14-15

    -There is also a verse in the prophets: And to the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. Isaiah 9:7

    So here is my hope, that the increase of His government and peace will be about these sinners that are outside. That these two verses are connected to each other. And that we will see each other, yes I would love that. Anyway, tomorrow we will have little heaven together singing to God praising God in church, talking to one another, ncouraging one another!
    It says: increase of peace, if there is peace already with all peaceful saints (yes peace between natives and imported people), how can the peace increase?
    After an eternity in hell, one after one the sinners get fed up with it, and might start to call for God. And there will still be work to do, as we do now: going after lost souls.
    It is only my hope, that’s all. It might be a much more interesting time then we can imagine.
    Very sensible idea that bacteria and mosquitos are tamed and peaceful too. Then probably we will not eat meat anymore, no animal killed to feed us. Rev 22:2 The leaves of the tress will be for the healing of the nations, there will be some healing still.

  193. phpatato says:

    If I may be allowed Mart and I do understand if not….

    For those of you – like me – who have not and may never get a chance to see the Holy Land, you can take a virtual 360 degree interactive tour by googling

    www dot p4panorama dot com

    and clicking the Holy Land virtual tour

    There is a drop down box that you can use to navigate your visit.

    For me, I wasn’t expecting what I saw. Funny how you have an image in your head of someplace and it’s totally different. I am referring to Calvary and the Palm Sunday road. Maybe it’s because this is the year 2012?

  194. SFDBWV says:

    Thanks for the information Pat, probably a site I will look at several times.

    You can defiantly see the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic influence everywhere.


  195. SFDBWV says:

    Going to the Holy Land has never held any interest to me; maybe because it is so full of people arguing and fighting all the time.

    Yet I know how short the memories of people are, if the events of the history of the church were not preserved in this way, it would soon be forgotten and become only stories in a Book.

    A Book that continually would have to prove its accuracy.

    Yes I am smiling, because the Word of God has to be defended against non believers all the time, yet there stands the Holy Land and all its physical locations that the Scripture has mentioned; a testimony to the fact of history in defiance of those who want to change history to their purposes.

    Sort of like there are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who cannot be ignored either, though their enemies would erase them from the earth forever if it were possible, their very presence is a physical proof of scripture.

    God is not a gambler, he deals the cards and stacks the deck, and only a fool would go up against Him in His game.


  196. poohpity says:

    I wonder what the implications are of life being a game and God stacking the deck? To me that would imply that God does not have our best in mind.

    Do we need to defend the accuracy of God’s Word to unbelievers or at times even believers? So many generations have died and yet God’s Word still remains through out centuries that alone should speak volumes in and of itself. We will fall a sleep but it will stay alive long after we are gone. If we as believers know that it is the accurate Word of our God then why do believers find it so hard to read it and meditate on it day and night. Shouldn’t it be a desire that we like sponges need to soak up yet it remains on the bookshelf until we go to a bible study or church if we even pick it up then or if we even go to church?

  197. poohpity says:

    So many believers will read a mountain of books about the bible and leave the bible itself untouched what does that say about whether we trust it or not? Believers pick it up to argue over or to prove a point but to know the whole they are leery of, does that say we believe it’s contents to be the accurate Word of God?

  198. poohpity says:

    Forget proving it to unbelievers we need to prove it to believers!!

  199. poohpity says:

    If one would read the bible then they could see that this is not a game to God and if God did stack the deck it is stacked in our favor!!

  200. SFDBWV says:

    Today on my “Days of Praise” article it is about “Open Doors” and a quote from Colossians 4: 3, 4, 5.

    It reminded me of this site and the opportunity that it gives us all to testify of our faith and of Jesus the Christ.

    In truth it is the value of the gift that Mart offers us; the opportunity to be a witness for Christ and perhaps to offer the Gospel to someone who is just nosing around the web.

    For that I am eternally grateful to Mart, and thank him for this gift of his BTA blog. As well as all of you dear faithful friends I have come to know.


  201. foreverblessed says:

    Yes, thank you Mart for making this able, and thank you all for your company.
    Thanks Claudia for Psalm 63, and Steve for Col.4:3
    It is a mystery, Christ, so hard to get for unbelievers. It took me so long to get it, even while I was raised a christian, and believed in God, but living in faith in Jesus, was a great mystery to me, mystery, meaning unknown. Now it is still a mystery, because I do not know how it works, but God knows. This weekend I had words with my spouse, it had been a long time. But at night I realised, I did not get in panic, but stayed calm and all peaceful in Christ. This then is a progress, slowly, but surely. Whatever happens, keep your faith in Jesus, He is Psalm 63:7-8
    our Rock, our Provider, our Sustainer.

  202. poohpity says:

    Mart, I often wonder if what Paul was saying in Phil 3:12-14, was that his past had been brought up to try and trip him up and deter him from the path he was on. I know that people close to me even in my own family when they get upset or angry bring up past mistakes as if it was yesterday. Those things we are unable to change so I wonder if that happened to Paul. Things like, “why should we listen to you when you used to kill Christians?” I wonder if that was ever thrown back in his face and that is why he wrote those verses or if he struggled with the things he had done and had a hard time letting go of them himself?

  203. pastorwc says:

    You know, I too am struggling with the decisions of the so-call Sanhedrin Council of the United Methodist. In the Methodist Church before you can began working on your local pastor license or your Elders orders to be conferred upon you. First you must be certified as a candidate for ministry in the church. I answer all of their questions to the best of my ability. I have already completed the educational requirements for the church however, the church claimed they are denying my candidacy for ministry because they say “I am not a good fit for ministry in the Methodist church”. They further said that they know I love the Lord and they recognized that I have a call upon my life but in their thinking it is not in the Methodist church. Therefore, I am struggling to understand these people decisions. The sad thing about it all. I am not good enough to get my local pastor license but still I am good enough to pastor as a supply pastor of a small church, working with people that do not want to change. It is a mystery why the Lord do not show some people that people like me have been call of HIM. I do not express my self articulately but I am understandable. I appreciate any insights from you or anyone with insights concerning my struggle. I am still here thrugh the grace of God.

  204. Mart De Haan says:

    Poohpity, since human nature hasn’t changed, I’ll bet all of that and more was what Paul had to face and work through.

  205. poohpity says:

    If it were me pastorwc, I would ask them to explain further what is meant by “a good fit” so I would not have to guess about it. We all have areas that still need work but if someone is not specific about the area then it may be just a personality difference. It is a gift to get specific feedback. It also may not be where God has called you to serve, you could also ask Him to show you if there is another church for you. Working as a supply pastor in a small church working with the same people Jesus ate with because there are many who do not want to change could it be that attitude is one they find problems with?

  206. confeticat says:

    Dear pastorwc,

    No man can serve two masters. You will be of no use to them or they of use to you. It reminds me of the time I found this letter in the church mailbox from a man who was confused. That pastor didn’t take stuff like this seriously. I knew he either wouldn’t answer it at all or he’d say the wrong thing. So I answered it for him, and invited the man to the Assembly of God church across town.

  207. poohpity says:

    Having an attitude that people will not change denies the power of our Lord in a life and not being satisfied where we are serving shows an attitude of pride.

  208. confeticat says:

    No one tears a piece of cloth from an old garment and uses it to patch an old garment. For the new garment would be ruined, and the new patch wouldn’t even match the old garment.

  209. poohpity says:

    confeticat did you know that opening and reading mail that is not addressed to you is a Federal offense and can be punished by prison time?

  210. confeticat says:

    i worked for the post office.

  211. poohpity says:

    Then you know what you did was against the law? How dare you open another person’s mail. You may have caused harm to another person by answering mail that is not yours and thinking you have a better answer than the one it was mailed too. I wonder if I should call the FBI and inform them of this so they could track you down through the internet.

  212. confeticat says:

    We all know you are the Blog Police, Pooh, but there is a statue of limitations.

  213. His Sparrow says:

    Hi pastorwc

    I spent a lotta time banging my head or fist on closed doors…what worked for me was to finally look up and ask God where he wanted me to (work, serve, play, wait, etc).

    You mentioned one place you are serving that is fruitful. That could be one place God wants you to be, you can even ask Him again.

    The other place reads legalistic, religious, worldly- probably isn’t really where You want to be; you’d find out once you started (working, serving) there and actually you have been working there, trying to meet all their fleshly standards-and got paid nothing for it.

    I’d ask God one more time, if you haven’t already if that is where he wants you to be. Ask Him to open the door for where he wants you to be. When it’s His choice, the finances will follow.

    I often have to wait a bit, sometimes the answer is quick…but it’s His voice, not mine for which I listen.

    His Sparrow

  214. confeticat says:

    Pastor John, was that you?! One of my former pastors, John Polis (police) confirmed me as a friend on facebook today. I didn’t catch on until I heard “you’ve got mail” just now though already had the mail.

Leave a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.