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Photo by: Los Alamos National Laboratory

After hurtling through 352 million miles of space for 8 and ½ months, carrying a 2.6 billion dollar Mars rover, the space-laboratory named Curiosity survived seven minutes of terror to make an amazingly ingenious landing on the red planet.

Why curiosity? Because in yet one more attempt, NASA scientists are trying to find evidence of how life formed on earth, and whether we are alone in the universe.

Writing for the Los Angeles times, science writer Scott Gold writes, “Are we really a 1-in-a-gazillion accident?” asked Matthew P. Golombek, a senior research scientist at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in La Cañada Flintridge. “That’s almost a theological question. And we need to run it down.”

There’s a familiar story behind such a comment. Even among scientists who assume the evolution of life as we know it, many believe it was only possible if there was a God behind the process. Others rise to the challenge of the question, “How could a world like ours come out of nothing?” with their own question, “How could your uncreated God come out of nothing?

There’s enough mystery and wonder to go around. Worship too. It’s hard not to bow our knee to an enchanted material world, a Spirit behind it, some other imagined being, or ourselves.

So is the greater wrong found in trying to find the natural process that just happened to explode into magical molecules of life that morphed into elephants, tigers, and butterflies—and their daily bread? Or is it to take such an amazing life for granted—as if it were not one continual “miracle” of existence after another?

Every once in a while I am  amazed at my ability to take the wonder of any given moment for granted.  Not often enough do I find my curiosity stirred to the point of worship at the nail scarred feet of the One of whom John wrote, “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.  In him was life, and that life was the light of men.” (John 1:3-5).

Only occasionally does it seem so overwhelmingly clear to me that everything that is good, and noble, and courageous, and beautiful, and true, and self-sacrificing, and loving find their source and fulfillment in him.

In some of those same moments I sense that everything that is evil, and hurtful, and self-centered, that gasps and grasps for more than we’ve been given– explains why he came not just to live– but to die in our place. In his death we find life. In his life we find the answer to death. In his love we find the reason for our an existence so amazing it gives us meaningfully real answers to our curiosity.



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219 Responses to “Curiosity”

  1. cherielyn says:

    The old saying goes, “Curiosity killed the cat!”

    I believe God gave us curiosity in order to get to know Him better. I think it is good for man to be curious about God’s creation, but I sometimes wonder if it is wise to spend the amount of money the government does to do space exploration. I think of all the ways that money could be spent………….to decrease the national debt, to help better the lives of people in need. That list could go on forever!

    I think about how much sin resides on just our planet alone. How much more would there be if there were other inhabited planets? Would Jesus have had to die, separately, for each planet? See what I mean by curiosity! It makes the mind go in so many directions.

    I haven’t had the opportunity to travel much, in my lifetime, but I have seen a few things – the giant redwoods in California, some of our mountains out west and in Alaska. Each time I have seen a bit of God’s creation, whether it is as small as a ladybug or as large as a whale; as large as a redwood or as small as the petals on a lilac bush or lily of the valley (my two favorite flowers); as small as a grain of sand or as large as a mountain; butterflies, birds…………… and the crowning achievement of His creation – MAN, in His image! I am in awe of a God who had such an imagination to create such a diversity of life. I pray that I never take the miracle of creation or of each new day for granted.

    55 degrees at 6:30 a.m. in NE WI

  2. cherielyn says:

    I neglected to mention the most important miracle of all – that a Holy God would love us so much that He would sacrifice His only begotten Beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to provide for us an escape from our sins.

  3. SFDBWV says:

    Science has become the mechanism through which modern mankind looks to answer all of it curiosity.

    And why not; we have been duped and lied to, misled and used by *misinformation* all throughout history. So we look for *real* solid evidence concerning every aspect of our curious nature.

    On “Discovery Channel” there is a program titled “Myth Busters” that dedicates its air time to either proving or busting different beliefs people have in the physical world around us.

    One of the many quandaries science exposes as it searches for answers is that more often than not when one question is looked at it produces more questions that multiply the process almost infinitely.

    There is no peace in the purely scientific mind, never satisfied never content always looking deeper and deeper in a never ending spiral of curiosity.

    The problem is that man is not just a one dimensional creature; we are indeed a physical being, but we also are a spiritual being and there in lies the chasm which science can not cross.

    It is in that realm of spirituality that our spirits also look for answers and contentment; an area science tries to connect to with drugs or chemicals in an attempt to control the spiritual being and explain it, which more often leads to the destruction of the physical host.

    God showed us that He can transcend the physical and the spiritual by becoming a man, suffering death and living again in a new form which can never die or fall prey to the natural forces of nature again.

    He did so in the man we know of as Jesus of Nazareth. To prove it this Jesus of Nazareth preformed miracles that transcend the natural abilities of this world.

    Something the scientific mind can not believe unless it sees it for itself, documents it and can replicate it.

    Thomas had such faith, and had to be satisfied by his own standards before he would believe.

    As for the Mars rovers and search for extraterrestrial life; we have been lied to before in an attempt to alter our faith, look for it to happen over and over again.

    Hold tight to your faith in Jesus the Christ and to what the Word of God has told you. If things come in contrast to the Word of God then from who do they come from and what is their goal.

    Truly nothing is new as we have read from Scripture, just as in the Garden, the matter becomes who do we believe.


  4. dja says:

    Amen, Cherielyn and Steve!

    As I read Mart’s writings Genesis 1:1 came to mind. I love reading Genesis 1:1 through Genesis 2:25. It is so beautiful and amazing to read about the creation. I thank the Lord for showing me His marvelous truths, and just this morning I asked Him once again, “Why me?” Why do I believe all this and feel such a peace, knowing that whatever happens in this life, He is in control and has ordained it before the beginning of time. Wow!

    So when I see the beautiful sunrises and sunsets, and all the beautiful flowers in our gardens, I am still amazed and overwhelmed by what our Creator has done and is doing. And on those days that we all have when I don’t feel amazed and overwhelmed, I am amazed and overwhelmed how He brings me back to where I need to be.

    And Cherielyn, I, too, am amazed that this Holy God would sacrifice His own Son for me. What a Father we have!

    Much rain in NEPA yesterday and last night. I was sorry to hear that someone died from being struck by lightning last night at the Pocono 400. Nine others were injured. It was a very bad storm. The sun is in and out this morning. Have a good day!


  5. Bill says:


    This is one of those kinds of posts for which I compliment you when I happen to run into you in the morning.

    Today’s entry demonstrates, in a relatively short number of words, a profound grasp of the world, reality, the Bible, and our place in God’s grand plan — and to do so in a compelling, yet humble way. This is masterful writing. Thank you for sharing this with us.

    Creation (especially versus evolution) is one of those topics near and dear to my heart. I cut my teeth on books by Ken Ham, Henry M. Morris, and others. I studied the Laws of Thermodynamics until I was blue in the face. I examined all known data for creationism. I examined what was known and unknown about evolution. And I did that for years.

    In the end, I was able to conclude this: I don’t know. In fact, nobody does.

    The Bible is inconclusive about how old the earth is. Science cannot replicate creation or evolution in a laboratory; therefore, neither is true science.

    So, in the end, creationism is just as much a scientific guess as evolution is.

    Here’s what I conclude from that: Knowing HOW or WHEN our world (and our selves) came into being is not important from God’s perspective. If there’s life on other planets, great. It doesn’t affect my belief at all. If there’s no life on other planets, great. It doesn’t affect my belief at all.

    Ditto for the age of the earth. If we’re 6,000 years old, great. If we’re billions of years old, great.

    I think we get caught up in these types of questions and totally — as you so eloquently put it — overlook what’s really, truly, and unassailably important: THIS moment. The wonder, beauty, magic, and purpose of THIS moment.

    You wrote,

    “Every once in a while I am amazed at my ability to take the wonder of any given moment for granted.”

    Amen. This is our sin. This is where we fall horrendously short. We argue about grand schemes, big pictures. We nearly come to blows over the age of the earth. We divide people into categories of “creationist” (therefore, saved) and “evolutionists” (therefore, doomed to hell) and we equate a belief in the origin of the earth with salvation. In fact, some Christians I know will outright tell you that if you don’t believe in creationism then you cannot possibly be a Christian. Irony is a cruel task master. Because while we’re arguing, debating, and drawing lines in the sand amongst ourselves and the world around us, the world around us suffers from lack of love, compassion, and basic necessities of sustenance.

    The philosophical and ideological notions put forth by Ken Ham and others makes for interesting exploration and pontificating over a camp fire, or a cup of coffee. It intrigues my mind like Zeno’s paradoxes of motion did back in my Philosophy class in college. It’s heady, mind-boggling stuff that makes one feel superior to others who aren’t interested in such things, or who can’t grasp them.

    I think the same goes for creationism and evolution. They’re heady, mind-boggling pseudo-scientific pursuits that echo Shakespeare’s Macbeth:

    “Out, out, brief candle! Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” (Macbeth, Act V, Scene V)

    I don’t want to be an idiot, full of sound and fury. And I surely don’t want my life to signify nothing.

    So matters of science regarding the origin of the universe are interesting, but not a deal breaker for me.

    I have THIS moment to enjoy.

  6. confeticat says:

    Well aren’t you guys full of flowery words and eternal explorations this morning! i cannot produce anything to equal all that. “When one question is looked at it produces more questions that multiply the process almost infinately.” Not you guys. You’re all on bungee cords. You are curious and stretch a bit, then when you find an answer you don’t like you snap back to your old position.

    “Curiosity killed the cat”? Don’t count on it!

  7. Mart De Haan says:

    Maybe there’s a difference between whether we are curious about good or evil– God or devil. Seems like we have a starting point with the first family wondering what God was withholding from them in that fenced off tree.

  8. confeticat says:

    As Paul your great Astronaut to the red planet said, “Who will go up to heaven to bring Christ down to earth? (Rom. 10:6). He needs to be brought down to earth. In fact, why don’t we bury him in the place of the dead (Rom. 10:7).

  9. confeticat says:

    I guess we were writing at the same time, Mart. What was the tree of life in the garden of Eden? It was the TORAH! (Prov. 3:1,18).

  10. confeticat says:

    Back to Rom. 10, the first commandments are: You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God… (Ex. 203-5)

  11. tracey5tgbtg says:

    The fenced off tree was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They were free to eat from the tree of life.

    Every answer ends in God and I like that.

  12. confeticat says:

    If the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was fenced off, how did they eat from it?

  13. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends –

    This morning, as I listened to the first reports of Curiosity’s deployment on the Mars surface, I was elated for the team who have worked so hard to get their rover where they hope to get it. This is a remarkable human feat.

    Wherever we look, we experience persons who do not assign the same meaning to anything as we assign – and when we get into the area of spiritual reality, disagreement multiplies, it seems. Faith is not simply intellectual knowledge, but healthy curiosity is welcome in any field. I’m not convinced, as Matthew Golombek of the JPL claims, that his team can “track down” a scientific answer to a theological question.

    I make no claim that scientific projects are not worthwhile. The accomplishment of Curiosity even so far is amazing. A geological survey of Mt. Sharp and Gale Crater on Mars will be very informative. Scott Gold writes:

    Caltech’s John Grotzinger, Curiosity’s principal investigator, said the rover “will have started the era of a whole new dimension of space exploration.” That dimension, he said, is one of “deep time.”
    Rather than getting a snapshot of one point in time on Mars, the mountain will allow Curiosity to build an understanding of “hundreds of millions to even billions of years,” Grotzinger said. (©LA Times 8/6/12)

    Archaeology in places on our world where the Biblical story unfolded has yielded helpful, faith-enhancing information for anyone who follows the reports. I agree with you, Mart, that the discoveries of science have caused many scientists to ask, “How could all this come into being without a Creator?” That statement rarely makes a headline. What news media repeat over and over is the belief that there could not be a God – whether that opinion is stated by a scientist or not.


  14. SFDBWV says:

    Thank you all for your thoughtful and open thoughts this morning. Cherielyn and Della reminded me of Jesus’ comments about the weather and the fact that people could somewhat predict the weather, but ignored the signs of the times.

    Interesting that Jesus would connect reality with faith believing the words that the Prophets have spoken on behalf of God; speaking of a reality that was playing out before their very eyes that had been foretold hundreds even thousands of years prior to that moment.

    As well as speaking to us today and pointing once again to the written Word of God for that ability to peer into the future to find truth and the ultimate source of understanding.


  15. confeticat says:

    I feel magnanimous this morning. I’m going to let your teacher Paul help you out.

    II Cor. 11:3,4

  16. confeticat says:

    Let me help you you another translation:

    “But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by hia craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
    For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.”

  17. remarutho says:

    I am glad that human beings have this curiosity about the universe. It is certain that the space program will always be in a Christ-centered universe. (Colossians 1:15, 16, 17)
    As Bill points out, neither creationism nor evolution can be proven. Faith is the faculty by which we perceive God.
    Have a wonderful day, All!

  18. SFDBWV says:

    Maru, I too am a fan of exploration. When I was a child the world of science fiction filled me with a desire to travel through the universe as did Flash Gordon and others.

    It is that same desire for knowledge that has led to many breakthroughs in the field of medicine and it is a well known fact that our space programs have produced some amazing products that have enhanced our daily living. As often happens during wartimes, I prefer space exploration to war.

    Matt’s having a rough morning, so I’ve had a few extra minutes to spare here. I too hope all have a good and blessed day.


  19. fadingman says:

    Curiosity is a good and necessary thing. What a boring life it would be not to be driven to seek answers to the questions of life.

    Ever since I was young and saw a segment on Mr Roger’s Neighborhood on how linoleum floor tiles were made, I’ve been looking at common everyday things and wondering “How did they make that?” So now I get to satisfy much of my curiosity with “How It’s Made” on the Science channel.

    When it comes to much spiritual truth, comprehension may be beyond our reach (i.e. “Why does God love me?”), but that doesn’t mean we’re totally in the dark as to the answers. Seeking to know the who, what, when, where, how and why’s of scripture – of God – is very important and essential. Those who don’t have this kind of curiosity must lead pretty boring spiritual lives.

    On the other hand, curiosity, like other God-given gifts, can be perverted to evil. For example, it was curiosity that led Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit (“I wonder what it would be like to be like God, to know good and evil?”). Curiosity is probably a bigger influence than peer-pressure with those who smoke their first cigarette, take their first hit, etc.

  20. confeticat says:

    Deut. 30:12-14 is the passage Paul used in Rom. 10, except that he substituted another god (Christ)for the Word (the Torah, Jesus). In Deut. 30:19 God said “I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So CHOOSE LIFE. This is salvation and a very crucial place to substitute another god.

    Can’t find any fences in the garden of Eden originally and Adam and Eve chose the curse instead of the Tree of Life, the Torah. The Torah is like a tree in Psalm 1:1-3. In Rev. 22:1,2, its leaves are for the healing of the nations. The pages of the Torah scroll are called leaves. Also in Jer. 36:21,23.

    The shooter at the temple was Wade Michael Page.

  21. confeticat says:

    There is a translation problem here. “Three or four leaves”.

  22. confeticat says:

    The reason Christians can’t keep the written word is because a counterfeit god has been substituted. Luke 9:35

  23. poohpity says:

    Since we are made in God’s image Genesis 1:27 does that mean that God is curious?

    There is truth in evolution because we have watched it just in our time. From the 50’s until now what opened the door to our minds and creativity was it because it was allowed to explore and change is embraced as something good?

    But to be able to comprehend a love that goes beyond human reasoning Eph 3:18,19. That is what I want to know, explore and experience so that I can live it out. My curiosity is in the love that changes things and allows people to inquire without feeling threatened.

  24. BruceC says:


    “Something the scientific mind can not believe unless it sees it for itself, documents it and can replicate it.”

    Your quote reminds me of what I once heard about science. It should be based on observation. Unfortunately that does not hold true with many in that community today as they accept evolution as fact and without question. It’s poundied into them from grammar school.

    I once heard someone say that someday if science claws its way to the top of the mountain of knowledge and wisdom they will find theologians already there.

    I agree with one of the posters that made a comment about the money spent. I think much is spent to fuel the egos of those that don’t believe in God and want us to pay the tab so they may prove it. I don’t mind folks who chase their tails; just don’t do it on my dime.

    Soli Deo Gloria!

  25. confeticat says:

    While the scientists and the theologians are clawing their way to the top of the mountain, let’s continue on. No one should feel threatened, but the Ephesians passage is just more of the same. We were born with a personalized self-inking stamper. In other words, we leave an imprint of sin on everything we touch.

    When we are saved, Jesus removes the ink, but we can keep adding more. And we still have the stamper until we are born again.

  26. SFDBWV says:

    Hello Bruce, you and I being readers of Chuck Missler get a truck load of science interwoven with scripture and we enjoy it, at least I do.

    For us or most of us we only see the world we have been exposed to. As you have correctly stated children’s minds are stunted and poisoned from the earliest age to believe lies.

    I don’t think this is a new accomplishment and tool of our adversary.

    Nor is it confined to just evolution.

    The suppression of truth and the restrictions placed on people to not seek answers are wide spread today in our world and is what caused the tragic event in our history we call “The Dark Ages”.

    The one thing that despots fear is an open education and worse the Bible. This is why you see the Bible outlawed in most communist countries and certainly in Islamic ones.

    Unless it has changed, North Korea has never educated their children to the knowledge that the USA landed men on the moon in 1969.

    Two scripture concepts come to mind, both relate to teaching our children about God, both contend that by doing so no matter what else they learn, the things of God will never depart from their memory. One found in the OT one found in the NT, both agree as one.


  27. confeticat says:

    The JC Penney CEO just asked me what i thought of their new store and I told them it stinks. Well, i didn’t put it quite like that, but I asked him was it broken and if not why did he fix it. They are trying to copy J Crew with their ads. J Crew has higher quality clothes, and if that’s what I’m looking for I’ll shop there. Penney’s used to be a place where the average customer could find bargains. Luke 11:46

  28. poohpity says:

    Chuck Missler is one of those teachers that needs “beware” placed above his head. Good example of syncretism after reading his writings.

  29. confeticat says:

    NarrowPathSeeker – that makes two of us mixed up today. I’m just wondering if your derscription of the narrow path you’re on is from Pilgrim’s Progress, because you sound very much like Christian. The only trouble with that book is the writer gets him to the Eternal City (or whatever it was called) so he would have a happy ending to his book, and as i recall he wasn’t actually born again. if that’s the case no wonder you are in the Slough of Despond.

  30. remarutho says:

    I believe the topic is “Curiosity,” with reference to the successful landing of the exploration module on Mars yesterday…Can it be your post, Confeticat, has landed in the wrong blog?

  31. remarutho says:

    I reference your post of 11:00 a.m.

  32. confeticat says:

    Nope. That can’t be. I’ve got CONFIDENCE !! And also that NarrowPathSeeker will come dragging along the path soon.

  33. confeticat says:

    NPS was on a different path.

  34. confeticat says:

    Maru – My 11:00 post was about Rover landing on the Red Planet.

  35. kingdomkid7 says:

    I’m not sure what to make of Curiosity’s landing. I think I’m going to take a “wait and see” approach. As to the fact that even agnostic astronomers have to admit the universe’s origins are frankly supernatural, I offer up the name of Robert Jastrow who is the author of that quote about theologians being at the top of the mountain.
    Jastrow said it in his book, God and the Astronomers. Here’s what he said: “for the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
    I came across the Jastrow quote in a great book — an apologetic — called “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be An Atheist,” by Norman L. Geisel and Frank Turek. I am still reading the Geisel and Turek book, and I think it’s fantastic. They quote Jastrow as proof that even the agnostic scientists are reluctantly having to admit that the universe has supernatural origins.
    God is so patient with us!

  36. confeticat says:

    Maybe you could take a course in child psychology.

  37. cherielyn says:

    Dear BTA Family,

    Please, PLEASE pray for narrowpathseeker! I am very concerned! See their last post of last topic.

  38. Neville says:

    Curiosity? Can’t help but be curious myself at the diversity of comments on this topic. Quite unbelievable from down here in little old New Zealand (where Chuck Missler now resides) where I often feel so removed & distant from the rest of the world, how this subject can appear to wind up so many of the brethren. I wonder if God our father is curious at all about where we would end up, & how long it would take us, if He did not have a master plan for our lives?

  39. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    The Red Planet Mars exists, if we ignore it it won’t go away, so let us embrace it, prod it and see what makes it tic.
    There are contributors to this blog I try to ignore because their way out interpretation of scripture and life does not make sense to me or fit in with what God says is true.
    But ignoring them will not make them go away!
    Trying to make contact is fraught with danger and like Mars many attempts have been made and failed.
    Prodding them seems to just raise a dust cloud.
    But never give up, one day a breakthrough will be made and God’s truth will out.


  40. confeticat says:

    Have you ever seen a UFO? I have.

  41. poohpity says:

    I felt that too, cherielyn and will continue in prayer for her.

    Solomon told us how searching for answers to questions that may never be answered can weary a soul and prevents us from doing anything to make peoples lives better is like chasing the wind. Much study about different things is wearisome to the flesh and came to the conclusion written in Ecclesiastes 12:13,14. Now teaching on how we can better serve each other and learning how to not be self serving, hurtful and evil would sure get some results that is why we are given such a wonderful example to follow in the Life of Christ and not only as an example but to be filled with Him in our hearts, souls and minds can result in thinking more highly of others than we do ourselves. Talk about “everything that is good, and noble, and courageous, and beautiful, and true, and self-sacrificing, and loving find their source and fulfillment in him”.

  42. phpatato says:

    First thing…Thanks Cherielyn for asking us to go back to yesterday’s post. I will for sure, be praying for our dear friend Narrow.


    I thought the saying was…if you just ignore it, it will go away….like a child in a temper tantrum. Experts have said not to “reward” the tantrum by paying attention to it. But you have me pondering that a little more now and perhaps you are right. Ignoring will not make it go away. Much like a cancer, it will just keep growing and growing. But what I have to question is who is best able to do the prodding. Should it not be the experts in the field? Trying to make contact is fraught with danger so maybe it’s best to leave it in the hands of the experienced experts to find the breakthrough?

    God’s truth WILL win out, now and forevermore!

  43. poohpity says:

    When my children were young there UFO’s in my home that caused me to duck often. ;-) Sometimes I knew what they were and other times I had no idea. We may not know what they are but I bet God does.

  44. foreverblessed says:

    Narrowps, you are in my prayers, I hope the riverside brought some peace in your mind, God’s peace. Love you, you are doing so fine with a hard man around you, and he doesn’t get your spirit down, all because of God’s grace with you. SO keep it up, look to Jesus and be saved from losing your mind.
    Let’s not worry about other people, it is all in God’s hand. Let’s pray in full confidence that Jesus will know a way, and that we will be submssive to His prodding. That is also something I have to tell myself, as I am inclined to worry very much. But worry means that my faith in God is not big enough. I think He can’t handle. The only thing matters, how our own heart is, is it attuned to Him. SO my prayer is full of confidence, praise God for what He is doing now!

    Bob in Cornwall, just saw a program on BBC 2 about Cornwall. What a beautiful countryside. Didn’t know that the mining industry, getting the coal up from below, with steam power, high pressure steam power, came from Cornwall! You and Steve have more in common then you might know.

  45. foreverblessed says:

    Pat, I very much agree with your post, and I pray with you, as you were saying, God’s truth will win, His love will win, that is even better. If we know His love, we have found everything we need for life. Knowledge will not make us happier, although I was always very curious, and studying, but God’s love fills our heart to the full.

  46. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    foreverblessed, I am watching the Olympics but that program on BBC2 is called Coasts and goes all around the country. They did one on your Coast last week that was very interesting with all the dykes and the 1950’s floods.
    It was Tin that was mined. The Industrial revolution started in Cornwall with steam being used decades before elsewhere.
    Pat, thanks for reading between the lines, lets hope those who watch over us can also read the gaps.

    I will also be praying for narrowpathseeker but I know her riverside sanctuary is also her church and private place, so The Lord will meet her there.


  47. remarutho says:

    Prayers going up for Narrowpathseeker. Sometimes we take figuratively what was meant literally. Lord, watch over our friend. Blessings, Maru

  48. confeticat says:

    Why can’t you decide for yourselves what is right?

  49. SFDBWV says:

    I join with all of you beautiful Christian people in prayer for our dear friend and sister in the Lord narrowpathseeker.


  50. confeticat says:

    And he will answer, “I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me” (Matt. 25:45).

  51. davids says:

    Yes, we need to pray especially for those that put themselves first.

    As I look around, I realize that pretty much everything I see is the result of scientific curiousity and the resulting technical improvement; not just the obvious things, but others: our paper, our glass, our metals. They are results of curious minds, and sometimes expensive investigation. Praise God for them!

    In the time of Newton, many intellectuals believed that the ancients knew the “truth” in all areas and that the history of man was the gradual loss of truth over time. It seems that many still believe that today.

    Scientific advancement has often been confronted by unfounded religious assumptions: the world is flat, the earth is the center of the solar system, man was not meant to fly, etc. We should not throw Christianity up as a barricade in front of knowledge and learning or else we are likely to see it run over by the advance of learning.

    It is better for us to continue to preach a risen Lord, not a scientific foundation.

  52. poohpity says:

    No one is refusing to help. We trust God to provide for her because we are all so far away but we are brought close to her through prayer. Just as we are praying for you confeticat.;-)

  53. His Sparrow says:

    Hi poohpity-that’s a verry interesting question, is God curious? I believe He knows everything, but he probably gets pleasure from seeing what we do with the things in the natural world-like Mars-so would that be something like God being curious? I appreciate your posts very much.

    Bob, I’m with you-Mars exists, isn’t going away, let’s embrace it, prod it, see what makes it tic-maybe it tocs, maybe it tics and tocs! God gave us amazing brains, we probably don’t use to our capacity and I don’t perceive he wants us to de-evolve (is that a word?)

    All the blog contributors come here for a purpose, God’s purpose whether they or we or I realize it or not. I like it because we explore each other’s experiences and the conflict and challenges cause us to search ourselves to defend what we believe and to refine what we believe. This “conflict” has helped me to grow.

    Pooh and Steve and others have been my outstanding mentors whether they realize it or not. Confeticat and others challenge my thoughts with refining fire. I love ya’ll (y’all translates “all of you.)

    The Mars mission had to have every line of code-information the computers needed to execute their tasks-perfect. That’s a lot of thinking it through, checking, double checking, defending task orders. There is a delay from the time Curiosity actually landed til they got the messages/photos because of space travel. So, since it was (in my perception ‘perfect’) did God bless that without regard for their beliefs about Him?

    I love my RBC family

  54. phpatato says:

    Hey Bob

    I have a friend who is in Padstow Cornwall tonight on vacation. She was saying that there was no WiFi where she was and when she found a spot with it, it was like bees to honey. lol She visited Saint Michael’s Mount and said it was gorgeous.

  55. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I live overlooking Mounts Bay and can see across to Penzance and the isles od Scilly but, unfortunately a headland protrudes to obscure my view of the mount.
    I can just see the top of the castles Highest turret if I walk along the cliff and stand on tiptoe.
    That’s curiosity for you.
    For the Curious among you, google St Michael’s Mount, you will enjoy!


  56. royalpalm says:

    Hello Mart and BTA friends,

    Thanks for this topic and the insightful posts…Mart, your intro states,” Why curiosity? Because in yet one more attempt, NASA scientists are trying to find evidence of how life formed on earth…”

    IMHO, the “Curiosity” is another chapter in man’s history of endless and futile efforts to “discover” the origin of things because of disbelief in God and His Word. How sad. In contrast to the precious and expensive perfume that could have fed the poor yet was lavishly poured on the Lord who is the Creator, (Matt. 26: 6,7,8,9. Col. 1:15, 16) this $ 2.1 billion extravagance was offered to science and man’s hubris to challenge God’s role as the Creator. The project took a lot of planning, ingenuity, and intelligence, and this is an impressive achievement, yet in the eyes of God, those who refuse to recognize Him are fools. Psalms 14:1

    Why not simply accept God’s Word in faith? (Genesis 1:1, Heb 11:3) Here is the crux of the problem: to believe that there is a Creator who created everything by His Word is to concede to the truth. Truth requires recognition and worship of an Almighty God and submission to His righteous demands. Those who deny God do so because they refuse to glorify Him or be accountable to Him. Rom. 1:19, 20, 21, 22

    I am thankful for the advances that man has accomplished because of his curiosity, but all that he has attained I give credit to God who is the source of knowledge and understanding. When God finished His work of creation, He rested. All the laws that govern His creation were set in place. (Col. 1:17) Man simply discovered God’s laws and utilized it.

    God’s blessings include wealth and power but these can corrupt man’s heart into thinking that his prosperity is the result of his own efforts – as God had warned the nation of Israel. (Deut. 8:13, 14, 17). That is why He commanded them to keep His commandments, to walk in His ways, and to fear Him (Deut. 8:6) and to bless/praise Him for His blessings. (Deut. 8:10). These same warning and commands are also much needed today even as we contemplate and comment on Curiosity’s landing on Mars.

    Ps. I too, add my prayers for narrowpath… “Our heavenly Father, we give you praise for your love, grace, and mercy. We commit to You, Lord, narrow, even as You know her and we pray that You will protect her body, soul, and spirit and keep her for Yourself. Lead her not into temptation and deliver her from the evil one; lead her along paths of righteousness for Your Name’s sake. O Lord, I pray this also for this BTA family, and their families. Where can we ask for help, but from You? Like Job some of us are sorely tried… help us to have faith that finds complete peace in Your love. This we pray for Your glory and honor, in Jesus’ Name. Amen.”

  57. SFDBWV says:

    Royalpalm that was a beautiful prayer, thank you.

    This matter with Narrowpathseeker is unsettling and mostly because we may never know the outcome of her troubles unless she or someone who is connected is able to report.

    I want to believe she is ok, so I will keep my faith there.

    Last week my 93 year old mother-in-law couldn’t remember what amounted to about 3 hours of her morning. She was confused and scared.

    After talking with her I could see she had no outward signs of stroke, she didn’t want to go to the doctors and in truth there is nothing they could have done to help her.

    She is fine now and has actually remembered the events that she had trouble recalling; it took a couple of days before she could clear it all out. We have decided it may have been the result of a migraine headache she was experiencing at the time.

    If Narrowpathseeker lived nearby I could have went to the river to check on her, even if there were someone to call in her family, but in this circumstance all I can do is trust her to God and await to hear from her again.

    Loving someone is never off topic here.


  58. SFDBWV says:

    I remember reading that many thought that Venus was a lush heavily tropical paradise because of the cloud covering that surrounds the planet.

    That was until Russian probes showed it to be an unimaginable hellish place, its clouds not water vapor, but rather sulfuric acid, its surface temperature several hundred degrees.

    We now know that the temperature on Mars’s surface can reach a couple hundred degrees below zero Fahrenheit at the equator.

    The dreams of science fiction writers of a thriving civilization and thousands of miles of canals and Martian beauty queens have faded to hoping to see if the planet contains the *stuff* of life.

    Carl Sagan had a comment that condensed that *stuff* into the idea that we are all made of the same things that comprise the universe; “star stuff”.

    Science fiction writers are now left to imagining ancient civilizations that once lived and thrived on Mars and colonized Earth before moving on to other parts of the universe to live.

    This particular probe is designed to see if water was once present on Mars and if life could have ever existed there as we know it here.

    It seems as our probe information gets better, we have to keep looking for other areas of our solar system to keep the idea alive that life exists elsewhere other than Earth.

    The moons of Jupiter are of particular interest to many.

    As long as we are able I am sure the curiosity of man will keep sending out *ships* from harbor Earth to see what lay beyond the horizon. All the while imagining all the possibilities.


  59. confeticat says:

    This discussion of the origins of life neglects the more important things. I’m more curious about the origins of you people. Like the feud between Elton John and Madonna. Madonna has made remarks about GaGa, who is the godmother of Elton’s son. Elton then said Madonna’s tour is a disaster, her career over.

  60. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends –

    I wonder – and am curious about – the outcomes of different shades of spiritual perception of the origin of things. What does our mind-set – and our choice of company – do to our life-style and our witness? What does a person listening to the Aryan Nation do with the reality of a Sikh Dharma in town? Mart, you wrote:

    “So is the greater wrong found in trying to find the natural process that just happened to explode into magical molecules of life that morphed into elephants, tigers, and butterflies—and their daily bread? Or is it to take such an amazing life for granted—as if it were not one continual ‘miracle’ of existence after another?”

    You seem to be juxtaposing two possible poles of a supposed dichotomy: magical thinking versus strictly material thinking. The farther one’s thinking moves to one extreme or the other it seems to me, the farther our thinking moves from the reality of a universe that is in the hand of our Creator God. God’s creation is already wondrous! The Lord is powerful in a world of solid matter! And in Christ, we learn to look with love upon all peoples.

    I heard an interview with a man this morning who is finally selling his last valuable, a motorcycle, in order to meet his bills for the next few weeks. He is praying that things will change for him economically in that time. He chooses to blame the president and the president’s former pastor for his troubles in joblessness and lack. The man is convinced that the entire failure of the American economy in his area (Florida) is based upon the racial hatred of these African American men. He listens to a famous talk radio commentator – and he is being taught by his own pastor in his church. He did not comment upon the landing of Curiosity on Mars – but I would imagine that he is not in favor of the expense of funding NASA to launch the project. I am not certain of that.

    My question is: Where can we go but to the witness of Scripture (the Holy Bible) to derive the values and the world-view and lifestyle that keep our perception of reality in balance? Being curious and seeking to become informed on a wide range of subjects fits in a Christ-centered lifestyle.


  61. confeticat says:

    Maru gets what I’m talking about – magical thinking (Elton) vs. material thinking (the Material Girl). All the discussion in the world is not going to change the origin of the universe. But lives can be changed. If you want to use the red Planet as a metaphor, fine, but stay where we live. The earth is a red planet too – saturated in blood. Not only blood from wars and killings, but even a Church that wallows in “Nothing But the Blood.” Its people are still trying to please God while still flesh and blood, so they are worse off than before. Some of you do the same.

    As for going to the Holy Bible, you have seen we don’t have one, and even the holy part is words on a page. Life-giving words, but only to the extent as what you have of the Holy Spirit to reveal them to you. Only to the extent that you put them into practice. You need Jesus himself, not a book. “Where Can I Go But To the Lord?”

  62. remarutho says:

    Hello Confeticat —

    Please believe me when I say I do not “get” what you are saying!

    I need The Book. Let me not be so bold as to speak for you, or say that you need The Book as well.


  63. Bill says:

    Gee whiz, confeticat. You’re one imaginative person. Do you write fiction in your spare time? You have a way with words and concepts that would seem to lend themselves to such a pursuit.

    @maru, you wrote “He chooses to blame the president and the president’s former pastor for his troubles in joblessness and lack. The man is convinced that the entire failure of the American economy in his area (Florida) is based upon the racial hatred of these African American men. He listens to a famous talk radio commentator – and he is being taught by his own pastor in his church.”

    That’s an entirely different can of worms from mere curiosity. I can tell you “racial hatred” likely has nothing to do with the unemployed man’s opinions. Millions of people feel the same way, and it has nothing to do with race. It has to do with economics, national debt, and this President’s propensity to stir up divisions between Americans. When and if Mart chooses to post something related to politics, I’m sure we can all have a lively discussion. Until then, it’s probably not wise to interject politics into this thread.

    Regarding the expense of landing Curiosity on the Red Planet, I’m not sure it was money well spent. What can be gained? We’ll have a few more grainy pictures, some possibly landscape format so we see the expanse of red nothingness, we may have a few more Mars rocks to fondle, and we’ll have the ability to say to the world that we did it.

    But what about the homeless, hurting, hungry people here on earth? Could those $2.6 billion have been better spent elsewhere? I dare say they could have.

    Your point here is well taken: “What does our mind-set – and our choice of company – do to our life-style and our witness? What does a person listening to the Aryan Nation do with the reality of a Sikh Dharma in town?:

    Our mind-set, choice of company, and our life style have everything to do with our witness. Everyone posting comments here has a worldview. Everyone. We’re all subject to our upbringing and education. We’re subject to our politics, our ideologies, our pet projects, and our intake of media. I hate to use the terms “Liberal” and “Conservative” because these days they lack definition, given that the measuring stick to separate the two has been jettisoned. Now, the terms are on a sliding scale. But the point is this: deriving one’s intellectual intake from one or the other will color one’s opinion of everything else.

    Mart’s question, posed 100 years ago, may have been “juxtaposing two possible poles of a supposed dichotomy.” Today, however, I contend that everyone is already polarized into a dichotomy. There’s very little middle-ground thinking going on. Every poll conducted by every pollster tells us America is more divided than ever before — and with good reason. We have never been faced with ideological divisions this deep before. It’s not a matter of Democrat vs. Republican. Nor is it Liberal versus Conservative. It’s much deeper than that — a division between ideologies that cannot occupy the same time and space together at the same time. The clashes we see around us are the result of trying to jam a new ideology into a space previously occupied by another ideology. Where our country goes from here will determine our future.

    So Mart’s question is posed correctly. People think in black-and-white, either/or terms these days. I wish it were not so. But we have to deal with what is, not what we wish it to be.

  64. confeticat says:

    I wasn’t implying that erverything you said speaks for me either! That one comment that you got from what Mart said was what I was referring to.

    Your motorcycle guy brings to mind, why is it some of us want to do the least we can do? Someone asked awhile back, don’t remember who, if “sell all you have” really means sell ALL you have. Why shouldn’t it? It all belongs to God. I copped out and gave him the answer he wanted to hear. I don’t think it’s what Jesus would have told him. Jesus would know what it is he’s holding back. If the rich young ruler to whom Jesus said that had done as Jesus asked he would have become a disciple and Jesus would have taken care of him the rest of his life, but he couldn’t bring himself to let go.

    We needed the Book. But now, with the Kingdom, we’re going paperless.

  65. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    Your comments are like watching TV in a foreign country, occasionally you can pick out a name or phrase that makes sense, but mostly it just sounds like gobble-de-gook.
    That’s British colloquial for total incomprehensible crap.


  66. SFDBWV says:

    One of the things most notable as I watch the Olympics is the observation that as every country put forth the best athletes from their particular country, the United States put forth the best athletes we have whose ancestral origin is every country in the world.

    I apologize for not knowing for certain, but I believe it to have been astronaut Buzz Aldren or Allen Shepard who looked back from his space craft at the big blue marble earth and his life changed forever realizing the frail unique special- ness of planet earth and that we people are all in it together.

    Racial tensions are not unique to the USA, it is just that here in one country we have many races and many different beliefs. Yet if you look at the whole earth there are the same races and beliefs of people, it is just that in those cases the country or their origin of race and belief are joined together in their race and for the most part their religious beliefs.

    It is sad that the Sikh people murdered for their race and religion probably came to this country to escape that same fear in their own country.

    White supremacists are not patriots of the USA, but rather are misguided weaklings who look for someone else to blame their failures on.

    I think Hitler had to swallow a bitter pill of truth when Jesse Owens showed up the Aryan superior race at the Olympics in the 30’s.

    The one thing the exploration of our solar system shows us is that we are unique and special and alone surviving together inside a sphere of protection from the most hostile and unforgiving elements outside of that shield God has placed around us. It should be an eye opener and sobering thought.


  67. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Bill —

    I do not intend to lift up the interview I heard with a man in Florida as the end-all and be-all of his existence. He stated (pretty much) what I repeated as his explanation for the sorry state of the economy in his area.

    My point is not political — though worldview does shape politics — rather, I believe we must all keep our eyes on Jesus as the “author and finisher of our faith.” We are all choosing our point of departure and the ground we stand on. These things, assumptions, attitudes, determine our behavior when all is said and done.

    I believe the 2.5 billion spent on this NASA project is well spent. We may compare it to the defense budget or the entitlement budgets to determine its importance. It is the proverbial drop in the bucket.


  68. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    The USA is not the only country in the world that has a mix of every nation in it.
    most western countries have fairly open borders and allow many peoples in. look at what happened in little Norway last year when a nutter decided to end multiculturalism single handedly.
    The UK was always mixed up since Roman times and now it seems the whole of Europe, Asia and Africa live here.

    We are indeed “all in it together” one world together as you say in a hostel universe.


  69. remarutho says:

    My Scripture quoted is Hebrews 12:2.

  70. confeticat says:


  71. billystan121 says:

    On the “issue” of creation my opinions run deep and strong. I believe for many reasons, nature included, that God and God alone is responsible for creation. From the peak of the highest mountain to the deepest trench in the ocean, all are signed with His name. Accidents are incapable of producing such stunning beauty. His wondrous creation covers 87 billion times more space than anything created by man.

    In Mart’s quote from John 1:3-5 we are reminded that, “through Him all things were made…In Him was life and that life was the light of men.” The “Light of the World” turned out to be the source of life itself. In creation God breathed His air into our lungs and life began. Genesis 1:7

    Only God can give life and, regardless of opinion, only God can take life. Only through His life, death, and resurrection can we attain eternal life. And only by faith in the undeniable God can we receive eternal life.

    I occasionally watch science programs on television. Without missing a beat not one of these programs have done anything but attempt to disprove God. The idea that I crawled out of a mud puddle millions of years ago, or that through bombardment by comets and asteroids the “chemicals” necessary for life were bought to Earth is revolting to me. And not only is it revolting it is foolish. Proverbs 19:21 tells us, “Many are the plans in a man’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails.” And Proverbs 23:9 adds, “Do not speak to a fool, for he will scorn the wisdom of your words.”

    Without God’s helping hand we wouldn’t even be holding this conversation, we wouldn’t know sorrow, joy, love, hate,nor millions of other pieces of life’s happenings.

    I’ll close with this, “But if we walk in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin.” In God’s light we have life; we are cleansed and healed by the power of Christ’s blood better than bleach can whiten; and through His life giving blood and stain revealing light we come to knoe eternal life.

  72. confeticat says:


  73. poohpity says:

    If science wanted to make some remarkable step to helping humanity then why do they not try and figure out how to rid our planet of evil. Oh wait, only God can do that and sense scientists are human and develop things that can destroy mankind I do not think they will try and conquer it. The more medicines they develop the more disease flourishes. When they try and figure out the changes in whether they have yet to prevent the changes before it kills many. So the old adage of curiosity kills the cat may be wisdom from above and which has shown us that wisdom is far different than knowledge.

    When the first curiosity hit humanity, to differentiate between good and evil, that really opened up a can of worms. There are some things we were just not meant to know and that was for our own good. In pride we wanted to be like God, an unattainable goal, but science and humanity still seeks that position. To be able to figure it out so that they can manipulate it. In manipulating it they try and take the One who created out of the picture thus pride goes before a fall. The day that humanity finally destroys this planet I wonder if they will say we were only trying to make things better, lol.

  74. SFDBWV says:

    Thanks for the laugh Bob, you are right and it does seem everyone who lives anywhere thinks the grass is greener somewhere else. As evidenced by learning Chuck Missler has moved to New Zealand.

    I watched a very interesting program on PBS a few weeks ago about England, not the British Empire, but England. It was a program from the BBC.

    It seems England was much like America in that it was populated by all sorts of peoples in the North Atlantic, coast of France, Germany (Saxony) and of course Rome; all at a high price to the Celts already there, all comprising the people of the British Isles.

    I hope I didn’t offend.

    Your Friend

  75. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    The Empire was only 200 years of our history there is 6000 years before that with England itself forming from the Saxon kingdoms coming together to fight the vikings in about 700AD.
    Ireland and Scotland go back a long way to, with the oldest building in Europe still standing being in Ireland at 5000years old.
    You are lucky in one respect, you have a date to hang the start of your nation on and can trace immigration etc. back along many racial lines. We have no national date we just are who we are.
    Not sure which is best.
    There was no offence, just keeping our former colony informed. lol


  76. confeticat says:


  77. SFDBWV says:

    I also wanted to fold in to today’s discussion today’s Our Daily Bread. It speaks of the pictures from the Hubble Telescope.

    Most people that have seen the pictures are pleased at the beauty of them as has been colored in to enhance the different gasses.

    What is more amazing that the pictures keep peering deeper and deeper into the darkness of the sky and seems to have no end.

    What further amazes me is that considering that looking at galaxy’s at the edge of how far we can see, everything looks the same.

    Given the concept that looking further out into the universe we see backward in time, it seems as if everything existed at the beginning as it still exists today.

    Something people like me understand easily, because we believe God created it in a moment of time (Genesis 1: 1)

    Like our friend Bill I am a creationist through and through. Also like him I believe that all of science produces the fingerprint of a creator, no matter how hard they try to show otherwise.

    Want also to say that I am certain that there is or was water on Mars as well as all throughout the universe. If you take a meteorite and heat it up, it produces H20; comets are proven to be large dirty snowballs as well. So finding water should be no surprise, finding organic life would be.


  78. confeticat says:


  79. foreverblessed says:

    So you were watching the olympics Bob, (St Michaels Mount looks nice)
    Looking at all these athletes, how focussed they have been and still are to the point of the match on what they have to do.
    If we would be that focussed on Jesus,despite the wrong that we see in the world around, in science, (not all is wrong), in what people are doing, we do not ignore it, but the lesson we learn here is to give all that bad to Jesus, and leave it with Him, and instead we can focus on who He is, full of mercy, of goodness…
    It is a battle in our mind, where do we look at:
    look at Jesus
    Billystan, thanks for your comment, 9.33 am if we walk in the light…

  80. confeticat says:


  81. poohpity says:

    There does not seem to be much that has not been tainted by the control of man except space which by landing on Mars may be affected the same way everything here is and not for the good. Human beings take their garbage every where. When man tries to control their environment and people it can only result in negative consequences rather than trusting in God. Even our atmosphere is littered with trash that has been sent up for many years now lets take it to Mars maybe it will be a good trashcan because we are obviously running out of space to toss it here.

    A heated up meteorite produces water? That is a new one for me. Those are two gases when put together from water. So for water to be on Mars there has to be oxygen.

  82. confeticat says:


  83. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    There was oxygen on Mars at one time but, due to the fact Marses inner cor cooled and it lost it’s protective magneto sphere, the solar wind started to blow the atmosphere away.
    As there is no life to produce new oxygen most of it is locked up in oxides on the surface and in the rocks.
    we could mine this and release it or use it to create water.
    The same applies to the moon, there is water locked away in similar forms.


  84. confeticat says:


  85. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Our place, seated in heavenly places with Christ and our inheritance as Sons of God was the theme of both our services on Sunday.
    If you study Ephesians and really understand where we are living in the Kingdom of God, then the Universe in all it’s vastness is brought into perspective and seems a tad smaller.
    The realm we exist in is even larger and higher than all we can see or understand.


  86. confeticat says:


  87. poohpity says:

    To have oxygen there has to be plants. It is the circle of life you can not have one without the other. Basic scientific facts from biology 101. So how did they test the core of Mars or is that just a theory? Oxygen is locked up in the rocks which are minerals not gases? Tell me how that one works.

  88. confeticat says:


  89. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Plants only release oxygen into the atmosphere they do not create it, it is an element.
    Water is H2O which is a combination of two elements.
    Oxygen has a property that makes it want to attach to other atoms as in Iron Oxide which is rust and many others.
    So almost all the oxygen in the Universe is locked away in the form of various oxides or rusts.
    Plants use photo synthases to release oxygen from carbon dioxide thus creating hydro carbons that we can eat and Oxygen that we can breath.


  90. confeticat says:


  91. cherielyn says:

    You continue to be in my prayers. I am praying that God has, or will soon break through the mental anguish you are experiencing and help you to be able to think more clearly and get your bearings. I, as I know many of this wonderful BTA family, are waiting to hear from you again and praying that all turns out for good.
    Heavenly Father, we know You have Your loving arms wrapped around narrow. We may not know all that she is going through, but You do. Please keep her safe! In Jesus Name, Amen.

  92. confeticat says:


    1. Don’t get sick.
    2. If you do get sick, die quickly.

  93. poohpity says:

    Oxygen and water are what cause rust. You are correct that photosynthesis is what produces oxygen but water is produced by 1 part hydrogen and 2 parts oxygen. Carbon dioxide is the trash gas we produce by exhaling but the plants clean that and then turn around produce oxygen. Is this turning into a basic biology class. OK Bob are you just trying to rattle my chain? ;-) You know if people really did not know those things they would believe you and that is what happens when we do not have foundations.

    I do not believe we are asked to step out in faith with anything other than trusting God. I do not think we are to believe anything that anybody writes or tell us just because they sound like they know something but to check things out and not to be ignorant about many things. Very good lesson here.

  94. confeticat says:

    How do you make holy water?


  95. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    We are saying the same thing, only you are talking biology and I am talking chemistry.
    Oxygen is one of many common elements in the universe and can only be created in stars under extreme nuclear conditions.
    It is made by the fusion of sub atomic particles such as protons, neutrons and electrons to form an element that cannot be changed in the normal universe but can combine with other elements to form most of what we can see around us.
    Oxygen combines with most elements thus creating billions of combinations.
    It very rarely exist as a gas in nature, only when life itself releases it into the atmosphere does it exist as a gas.
    Without this unique continuous process it would quickly oxidate back into mineral form.


  96. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    If we should ever find an exo planet that orbits another star and find, through spectra graphic photography, that it has an atmosphere with a high level of oxygen in it then it will almost certainly have plant life of some type that is releasing it because it cannot sustain itself without recombining back into an oxide/mineral.

  97. poohpity says:

    Hi confeticat, how is your day? Hope all is well.

  98. poohpity says:

    How can a gas become a mineral? It does not process the same qualities? Or the same atomic structure.

  99. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Hydrogen is a gas but when combine with oxygen it is a liquid.
    Carbon is solid as in diamonds or coal but when combined with two oxygen atoms it becomes a gas as in carbon dioxide.

    Matter can exist in many states including the United States.

    sorry I could not resist that one. :-)

  100. poohpity says:

    Even between my ears, teehee!! I think that is what has been falling out of my ears, lots of pink matter. I think I am speaking of things that are far above my head to understand and to even want to figure out.

    That sounds similar to the theory that everything was created out of a combined mass of materials to form their individual identities which is also to airy fairy for me to fathom.

  101. cherielyn says:


    Fortunately, for you, it is pink matter falling out of your ears. It would not be a good thing, at all, if it were gray matter you were losing! lol! :)

  102. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    I thought we were getting way off topic here in a light hearted way as often happens in the lower pages of a topic, but, on reflection, it seems to me that what we have proved is curiosity and probing the universe unearths all kinds of things that can amaze, confuse, inspire, cause argument and bring harmony depending on our view point and how we see the results.
    They have just discovered the illusive Higs Bosun or God particle that will add a whole new dimension to the discussion on matter we have just had.
    Thank God we live in the reality of His presence and His Word.
    Heaven and Earth will pass away but His word endures forever!

  103. poohpity says:

    Yes gray matter would mean I am dead!! LOL Lord, keep one hand around my shoulder and the other one over my mouth!! We already know who created and maintains the universe and it is more than a particle so Higs Boson can take a break and we will go and explain it to him, lol.

  104. confeticat says:

    There has been so much gas and obnoxygen (I just made that up) between you two today I am reminded of Job 38 & 39 – Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? and then God asks Job two chapters full of scientific questions about things he has made, and says, OK, go ahead and explain THAT since yer so smart. I hasten to add he was asking Job, not you two, lest we get more of the same.

  105. poohpity says:

    We were not questioning God’s sovereignty but having a coherent conversation without disrespect for each other or others. It can no way be applied to the conversation of Job about the horrible circumstance that he was going through and cursing God because of them. Sorry I do not see the correlation. Job’s friends were the ones trying to attribute the circumstances to some hidden sin of Job’s and answering things for God that they knew nothing about. So not the same thing. Thanks for sharing your opinion but like Job’s friends it is far off base and not a correct assumption.

  106. confeticat says:

    “I have become a slave to all people to bring many to Christ. When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law. When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law, I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ. But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.

    “When I am with those who are weak, I share their weakness. For I want to bring the weak to Christ. Yes, I try to find common ground with everyone, doing everything I can to save some. “ (I Cor. 9:19,20,21,22). To me this is weasely but I followed the words of Paul your great hero just to see what effect it has. I was just holding you accountable as you did me on the Gambler, and you see, it leads to an argument. Just as I thought, Paul’s method doesn’t work.

  107. poohpity says:

    LOL, I was not arguing with you. I was simply pointing out that your opinion held no merit. How did I hold you accountable on the gambler I did not bring up lying? You said you opened mail that did not belong to you, I said that is against the law. Again it does not fit the situation.

  108. confeticat says:

    You were not arguing, you were simply pointing out that my opinion had no merit??!! ROFL I’m going to let Paul worry about you – you couldn’t happen to a more deserving guy! You complete each other – ha ha.

  109. cherielyn says:


    Generally the brain is referred to as gray matter, so when I commented that at least it wasn’t gray matter that was falling out of your ears, I was referring to the fact that at least it wasn’t your brain that was falling out! lol :)

  110. confeticat says:

    are you sure, Cherie? lol

  111. cherielyn says:

    Just Google gray matter & then click on the wikipedia link. I found it interesting.

  112. confeticat says:

    Wow. That gets into white matter!

  113. poohpity says:

    No your opinion on the application of Job to our conversation had no merit.

  114. confeticat says:

    What you need, Pooh, is a sense of humor. I don’t mean lol’s, I mean so you can laugh at yourself. You told me I broke the law and I’m laughing. But if you’d told Paul that, he’d say, he said it right there in I Cor. 4:3,4,5, “As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. i don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.
    So don’t make judgments about anyone ahead of time…”
    Now if that don’t take the starch out of your britches!

  115. poohpity says:

    I thought our brains were a pinkish red color when we are alive and gray when we are dead. I learned something new again.

  116. cherielyn says:

    It’s great living in a rural area with no city lights to diminsh the view of the stars. Just watched the International Space Station go over. Wish I had a telescope to get a better view of it, but it traverses across the sky so fast that I probably wouldn’t be able to track it with a scope long enough to get a better view anyway.

  117. remarutho says:

    Ah, the trajectory has risen several degrees: Thanks, Cherielyn, for directing our eyes upward! ;0) Good Night, BTA friends!

  118. submariner72 says:

    As a young 20 year old sailor, I came to know Jesus when I was studying nuclear physics. A month later, we landed our first men on the Moon. Curiosity may have driven us to that task, but we believers ought to take this opportunity to respond to the curiosity of the world around us. They need to know the God who created the worlds (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16-17) and who has the Lord placed here to tell them? It is we Christians!
    Wouldn’t it be great if we could spend the billions on evangelism instead of scientific experiments?

  119. confeticat says:

    Well, my ship has come in! Your last sentence puts you on the rail. Are you for responding to the curiosity of the world around us, or are you for evangelism? Or have you ever thought that through?

    If the Lord has placed Christians here to tell the world then HE is in trouble! Probably billions have already been spent on evangelism with not much to show for it. Evangelism today consists mostly of helping the poor, which is not a bad thing but don’t call it evangelism. The people on this blog claim to follow Jesus and Paul, but you can’t follow both. The reason they think they can is because you have to be schizophrenic to follow Paul. You gave a couple of his intellectual verses, Rom. 12:16 and I Cor. 1 say “do not be wise in your own estimation.”

  120. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    You are so right.
    Learnt this weekend a little more about the Kingdom of God.
    We are seated in Heavenly places with Christ but are physically here in Cornwall, Arizona, West Virginia, Canada, New Zealand and the like.
    Therefore we are the bridge between God’s Kingdom and this world.
    Everywhere we go we carry The Kingdom with us, we live it all the time and have the power and the authority of a son of God, just as if we were Jesus Himself.
    As the world gets darker and darker the light of His Kingdom shines brighter and brighter in and through us.
    Just as cherielyn said about the night sky.
    The darker it is about us the brighter we will shine.
    just as cherielyn wanted to have a telescope to see the space station more clearly, people are getting more curious and want to know why kingdom living is so different to their world.
    We are in the world but not of the world.
    We stand as ambassadors for Christ, a Holy Priesthood who are able to bring reconciliation & restoration to all we see. Isaiah 58 (The message Bible)


  121. bratimus says:

    Psalm 14:2

    1 John 2:15-17

  122. SFDBWV says:

    In 2 Peter 3: 10, 11 Peter explains that the heavens will pass away with a loud noise and melt with fervent heat, the earth also. This comment agrees with what science has come to understand about the universe.

    Then Peter brings the comment to a more spiritual nature and states, knowing this then what kind of person should you be and what kind of conversations should you be having.

    Revelation 21: 1 says plainly that the first heaven and the first earth passed away. Again science can agree that in their understanding this is possible. John goes on to say he saw a new heaven and a new earth, once again science can agree based on the understanding that the basic elements can not be destroyed, but only changed into something else.

    Doesn’t it amuse you that people concern themselves with the idea that our sun may *only* last a few more billion years; instead of concerning themselves with right now and what is important right now.

    Davids earlier comment about the belief that the ancients possessed all knowledge and that over time knowledge has been lost (Aug 6 5:46 pm) resonates within my thinking.

    I have always thought that because Adam was so close to God that the natural curiosity of a child would have produced great knowledge passed down to him from the Creator of all things.

    It also made sense then that Adams children and grand children immediately began building cities working in metals and making music. A far cry from the world view of primitive man evolving alongside monkey’s and apes.

    So it seems to me to make sense that what became necessary for fallen man to survive became more important to him and what was not necessary became lost.

    Modern man wants to recapture all knowledge as well as find a way back into the Garden; even a way to eternal life.

    All without God.

    Praying to hear something from Narrowpathseeker soon.


  123. confeticat says:

    Thank you for your power points , Bob.

    On the Kingdom of God, we are not “seated in heavenly places in Christ.” That presents a picture of us looking down on everyone else not to mention being seated with a false diety. Jesus said where your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be. (Luke 12:34; Psalm 37:4). That means our hearts can and should be right with God while we’re still here.

    The only “bridge” between God’s Kingdom and this world is Jesus of Nazareth. New Agers, cults, etc. call themselves “sons of God”. A Kingdom child has the power and authority of THE Son of God.

    A light doesn’t shine through us, it IS us (Luke 11:36). Don’t be concerned with the darkness around you. Jesus said make sure the darkness is not IN you (Luke 11:35).

    Kingdom living is not outwardly so different. Inwardly it is totally different.

    We are in the world but not of the world (Jesus), OR
    We are ambassadors for Christ (Paul).

    We are a holy priesthood while here on earth. Jesus holds his priesthood permanently (Heb. 7:24).

    Reconciliation is being reconciled to God’s way of thinking, not to one another, although that will follow.

    Restoration is the restoring of the ten tribes with Judah. I’m sure it has a broader meaning but that’s what it means to me, the earthly kingdom of God. It is not, however, the Kingdom of God, which is not “re” anything but a brand new thing.

    Isa. 58 is about feeding the poor instead of the hypocrisy of something we call religious.

  124. confeticat says:

    Bratimus — those are good scriptures and I take them to mean what Jesus meant when he said. “If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it (Luke 17:33).

  125. confeticat says:

    Steve – i scrolled back to Davids quote you referred to,and would add that we got ball point pens from the space program – what would we do without those? – and the Church is a prime example of losing truth over time. They have tried to recapture it but have instead succeeded in “keeping up with the times”.

    Oh no, the sun only has a few billion years left? “Don’t Let the Sun Go Down on Me! – ha,ha

  126. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    The first ball point pen was made in 1888 and later refined by a Hungarian man named Laszlo Biro in 1938, a patent battle then erupted which was won by Parker and Bic in the 1940’s.
    I am sorry I do not have the time or energy to correct all the other inaccuracies in your posts above.
    Maybe others will.


  127. confeticat says:

    I want to make something clear about the “bridge” because I’ve seen a picture of a cross used to depict the “bridge”. That’s probably not a good term to use. It is not the cross, not Jesus’ death or resurrection. It is Jesus Himself.

  128. SFDBWV says:

    Confeticat have you ever read the book “Future Shock” by Alvin Toffler? (1970)

    He popularized the term “Information overload” as well as expressing the idea that people would gravitate to vastly different lifestyles in order to cope with the ever changing pace of modern living in order to cope with life.

    I have to agree that because people are different yet the same that people naturally group together who think alike (Birds of a feather flock together).

    Naturally whichever group you find yourself in you find comfort from fellow believers and a feeling of acceptance even perhaps peace.

    However some of the people are not going to fit into any group and as a result the added pressure of the movement of the world going on around them, apart from them, with there being no control over the events that shape and alter their place in things becomes too much for them, for some that fall through the cracks they become the suicides and mass murderers among us.

    We as followers of Jesus of Nazareth, have an obligation to offer peace to all of the peoples in our society no matter which group they have migrated to.

    So whether jetsetter or organic farmer, whether astronaut or desk setter. Jesus remains the same today and forever offering peace to all who come to Him, that alone will never lose its message nor impact.


  129. confeticat says:

    Bob, I’m not THAT old! If the ball point pen was invented way back then, how come I had all those ink stains on my fingers and school clothes and the boy that sat behind me dipped my hair in the ink well?

  130. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Bic Biro’s were banned in my school too!

  131. confeticat says:

    I’ve never heard of Bic Biros or the book you mentioned, Steve. I knew you all were weird but suicides and mass murderers? Isn’t that a little strong? Birds of a feather describes this group. When I first came i asked myself, Is it a bird? a plane? Superman? But then i found out – it’s a bird.

  132. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    Bic is a global french company that also makes wet shavers and much more.
    I must re-tune my computer, I seem to be picking up foreign TV again!

  133. poohpity says:

    If I am not mistaken we are taught to hold our brothers/sisters in Christ accountable not unbelievers. Believers are open to correction because we know that there is only One who Holds the world in His hands and it is not us. There is only One who knows all things and it is not us. Only the Lord can spur a conscience and help a person to change and it is not us. Just because we believe we are to tell others about what Jesus did, has done and will do in their lives just as He has worked in each of us because we believe we trust. Only God can open a mind to understand His Word and if one dos not believe in the Christ then that is not open to them nor is conviction of heart. It is all chasing the wind.

  134. confeticat says:

    Bob, I heard that you don’t have many evangelical churches left in England, that all your best preachers – Alan Redpath, Stewart Briscoe, etc. came to America. How have you coped?

  135. submariner72 says:

    2Corinthians 5:18-20 speaks for itself: Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.” No human interpretation or comments are necessary.

  136. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    You heard wrong!

  137. confeticat says:

    Well, i think it used to be that way. Have you had a revival, or what?

  138. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    We stopped listening to American “Paid” evangelist sent over here to patronise us and started listening to what God through The Holy Spirit is saying to us.

    The latter rain and the outpouring of God’s Spirit in the last days is here right now!

  139. narrowpathseeker says:

    With tears of gratitude, I thank each of you for all your concern and prayers for me. I am so sorry to have worried you, but reading your prayers and concern lifted me somewhat out of a deep ugly pit. I tried to respond yesterday but my pc kept freezing up and this morning I had trouble signing in. God Bless each and everyone of you.

    I will be ok…I just have a very full plate in addition to many battles I am fighting and lack of sleep. One of them is too painful to talk about. Another is disgust for myself for falling so short of being the person I should be as a Christian. The other day I watched my nemesis writhe in pain. I bought him pain meds and placed 2 icy hot patches on his lower back, but I felt no compassion whatsoever. I was repulsed that I had to touch him to help him. I wanted to tell him that now he knows how I felt when he kicked me in the back so many years ago.

    When God’s Grace is on me I DO feel some compassion for him, so when I am without it I feel very much on my own and I get scared. There is no way I can endure life without God’s Grace and I can’t stand the ugliness that is ME on my own. In God’s Grace I truly love helping people, but lately I only feel used and want to shout to friends and family, “What do you think I am? A tractor?”

    I can’t really express how much your loving concern and prayers mean to me…thank you again and again I am sorry to have worried so many of you. I hope I can submit this without freezing up.

  140. confeticat says:

    I saw somthing about that in Peanuts today. Snoopy had swallowed too much water and it was gurgling up from him like a geyser. But Charlie Brown carries him off and calls him a stupid dog.

  141. poohpity says:

    1 Peter 3:8,9,10,11,12 NIV It is so easy to get dragged into a place where our hearts are sent on being ugly and it is easy to allow an antagonist to find a soft spot to insert a dagger but as Peter reminds us because of who owns our hearts we can be kind, compassionate even to those who seem so unworthy. The Lord used ODB this morning to convict my heart.

  142. poohpity says:

    narrow posted at the same time, glad to hear from you and respect you so much for doing what you are doing.

  143. SFDBWV says:

    So happy to hear from you narrowpathseeker, at least my prayers got answered. Glad again to hear from you dear friend.


  144. cherielyn says:


    So very happy (and relieved) to hear from you! I’ve been checking, every hour since I got up this morning, to see if you had ‘checked in’ and will continue to uphold you in prayer as you struggle with the daily challenges in your life.

  145. Bob in Cornwall England says:


    I am so glad you are back with us again.
    I can remember you telling a different tale with regard to your ex a few years back, I think you were having a yard sale or were helping him furnish his place, anyway at that time you seemed to draw on an inner strength that helped you see a future for yourself.
    That future is still there and dare I quote Jeremiah 29: 11 again.

    I know you find it hard and the river bank is your sanctuary, but you need fellowship outside of your problems to help lift and encourage you.


  146. poohpity says:

    As our scientists search for water on other planets we have a life long spring within our hearts of everlasting love. The life giving water John 4:13; 7:38; Rev 7:17

  147. poohpity says:

    John 4:14

  148. confeticat says:

    NarrowPathSeeker — Healthy people don’t need a doctor -sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent.

  149. Bill says:

    Glad you chimed in narrow!

    Two things about what you posted stood out to me:

    1. “Another is disgust for myself for falling so short of being the person I should be as a Christian.”

    2. “…I can’t stand the ugliness that is ME on my own.”

    So many Christians beat themselves up with guilt, “shoulds,” or “coulds.” You’re a child of the Almighty, narrow! You’re infused with the Spirit! You lack nothing that isn’t already within you.

    This reminds me of Yoda’s famous comments to Luke in The Empire Strikes Back: “Do. Or do not. There is no try.”

    Likewise, there is no “should.” There is only God’s infinite love and grace to sustain you — however you are, wherever you are. So you DO…and then you leave the results to God.

    Remember: You cannot outrun God’s goodness, nor his love. Just as you could not “fall short” in the eyes of an earthly father who truly loves you, you cannot fall short in the eyes of your heavenly Father. (See Romans 8.)

    Do what you can with what you have. Then fall asleep each night knowing you did your best. But please don’t exacerbate your situation by being hard on yourself.

  150. poohpity says:


  151. poohpity says:

    Earthly fathers do not compare with the Love of God because often their love is based on a fallen nature.

  152. remarutho says:

    Good Afternoon All —

    Have been away from the pc til lunch. Narrow! How good to hear from you again. God’s grace be with you in great abundance! He will be with you through this ordeal. Praying for you.


  153. His Sparrow says:

    Hi Narrow!
    Keep standing!

    I’m thinking of Ephesians in chapter 6 on the part about the Christian’s armor. A lot of us can recite that, but I frequently find myself just standing and getting through the stuff of this world by just “standing” this way– verses 13 and 16-17:

    “Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    (16) Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench the fiery darts of the wicked.

    (17) And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:”

    from the KJ translation I’ve mentioned previously.

    ‘my ‘puter can be stubborn as a donkey, so I write a lot in a Word file and copy it to here. Where is your riverbank? It’s over 113 degrees F. today and rising where I live and no earthly river anywhere.

    His Sparrow

  154. poohpity says:

    I’m in Arizona and when they say 113 they really mean that is in the shade so in the sun it is 121. It is one hot potato today!!

  155. narrowpathseeker says:

    His Sparrow, Maru, Bill, Bob, Steve, Claudia, Cherielynn,Pooh, Royal Palm, Foreverblessed, Confeticat and if I have missed anyone, please accept my apologies. I sat down with the intention of thanking each of you individually and started writing down your names. When I finished reading the many kind and loving words of concern and powerful uplifting prayers, from so many of you I knew I didn’t have time to write each of you individually. If I did have time, I still couldn’t find the words to express how deeply I was touched.

    I know some of you are going through far worse than me and I’m ashamed to be bothering you with my more menial problems. I have been lacking sleep and I have not remembered to do all the collective things you all have reminded me to do…staying focused on good and God, putting on the whole armor or God, etc. Thank you. I have been letting “flashbacks” take ME captive.

    I am going to get a good nights sleep and start my day at the river in my jammies if need be and do my best to stay focused on the good and all my blessings. When a “flashback” comes I will try to remember to take it captive in Jesus’ Name.

    BTW my river is in CT…I am very sorry for those of you suffering from the heat and droughts. We’ve had some hot and humid weather here but with occasional rain and not any where near as hot as you have it. I will pray for relief for you. God Bless you ALL!

  156. narrowpathseeker says:

    Phpotato, sorry, I missed you above…thank you for your prayers.

  157. phpatato says:

    I’ve been gone all day and just signed in.

    Narrow, my heart is glad now that you have “checked in”! Your family here has been concerned. And family we are, so please don’t ever say that you feel bad for burdening us. 1 Corinthians 12:26

    When I start to feel overwhelmed, I sing and most times it helps me get through “the moment” to carry on. This song’s chorus is one of my first….

    One day at a time sweet Jesus
    That’s all I’m asking from you.
    Just give me the strength
    To do everyday what I have to do.
    Yesterday’s gone sweet Jesus
    And tomorrow may never be mine.
    Lord help me today, show me the way
    One day at a time.

    Please know that I will continue to hold you up in prayer.



  158. foreverblessed says:

    So good to hear from Narrow, although I had to think it over what she wrote: It is a very hard time she is going through. Jesus tells us to love our enemies, to do good to those who hate us. But this is impossible to do, as the case of Narrow shows. And with all the thoughts that spring up inside us. The only thing we can do is fall at the feet of Jesus: Here I am, with all my terrible throughts. Help me God, deliver me from evil. I do not want these thoughts, I do not me I want to follow You, but am so falling short, Help me to follow You, and do Your will.
    Narrow I stand with you in your trial.

    Thank you for sharing your troubles, You said: I lingered a little too long on flash backs.
    I think you told us a very true lesson we all have to learn. Do no dwell on the past. But there is also another thing: God wants us to be released from the past, so He wants you to go through them again, but this time God together with you, and so bringing healing. So if there is anothere flashback, tell Jesus immediately, here it is: please Jesus you come into this, as all our struggles You bore them on the cross. And you will go on the cross with Him, and die to this ordeal. This part of you will have died, and a new part in His new rissen Life will appear in this part of you, because the risen Jesus Christ already lives in you.
    Apostle Paul wrote about this in taking every thought captive, if we linger too much then there is a whole setback, your thoughts go everywhere, memory is all in a mess. A battle of the mind is going on. Has no one of you such a By trial and error I slowly learn it is best to act immediately,
    Narrow I stand with you in your trial, I lift you up in my prayers to God, our Deliverer our Healer, our Sustainer.
    Thnak you all for being such a family around her, and especially Cherilyn who notified us for her comment. Thank you for being so caring. I think God is curious about us humans, how are we handling, how are we standing alongside each other, how are we growing in our faith. He is standing by us, thank God for His everlasting mercy!

  159. SFDBWV says:

    How apt to name the newest rover on Mars “Curiosity”. Man has certainly left a record of his curiosity all throughout history.

    In Ecclesiastes 1: 8, 9, 10, 11 we read that there is no new thing under the sun, but soon forgotten as mankind continues to satisfy his labor of knowing all things, in fact what is being done now soon will be also forgotten.

    It has now been 43 years since men went to the moon. What happened to the excitement of the event? Have we built colonies or established launching pads from its surface as once talked about? Is there any usefulness in doing so?

    What questions were answered by standing on the surface of the moon?

    We found out it is made of the same stuff as is earth, not green cheese, and that nothing is alive on it.

    Where did we get the idea that there may be life on it anyway?

    Man’s imagination and curiosity.

    Interesting that man’s earliest civilizations built so many of their cities high on mountaintops and their architecture designed around the view of the night sky.

    Looking upward at the night sky man’s curiosity has caused him to ponder many concepts at what they were looking at, yet God had already told him that they were placed there in order to give light and signs and seasons (Genesis 1: 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19).

    Does the curiosity of man mean that it is in conflict with God’s sovereignty? Or is it that God wants man to seek knowledge to the conclusion that leads straight to God as Creator?
    Seems there are two positions among man; the first being those among us who just believe God and need no proof, and those who must be shown before they can believe.

    43 years from now what will we know about Mars and how will that affect what we believe?

    For me, by then I will have all of the answers to my own curiosity, because as of this writing I *believe* I will surely be with the Lord.


  160. dja says:


    I don’t write often, but I do try to keep up with reading the blog entries of our BTA family. Coming to the Lord with our requests is where we all need to be. We don’t have to know details because the Lord knows all. Please know that I have been praying for you and was so thankful to see your first writing. I think everyone was thankful and relieved that you were okay. The Lord is so good! I continue to pray for you and others on this blog. It is such a blessing to be in the family of God, isn’t it?

    Steve, your comment “It has now been 43 years since men went to the moon. What happened to the excitement of the event?” brought back a picture in my mind where I was for the first moon landing. I was sitting in my 69 VW in a parking lot of a dept. store. I was going to look for a gift for my Mother, and I could not get out of my car until I had heard every detail on the radio as they were landing. It was so exciting! That was then, and I must confess, I have not felt that kind of excitement since then. But I do remember the real excitement I felt back then when I was 23. Thanks for the memory:-)

    The sun is shining now in NEPA, but storms are predicted for this afternoon through Sunday. Have a good day everyone!


  161. phpatato says:


    “Looking upward at the night sky man’s curiosity has caused him to ponder many concepts at what they were looking at, yet God had already told him that they were placed there in order to give light and signs and seasons”

    If it weren’t for man’s curiosity, as they looked to the skies, to ponder what they were looking at, there would have been no one bearing gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh to lay at the feet of our King. Can it be said then that having a healthy dose of curiosity, even one that is directed skyward, is a good thing and is approved by God? Or did God simply use what man thinks he knows to His good purpose.

    I agree with what someone posted earlier….there won’t be anything discovered, whether it is advances in medicine or advances on Mars and beyond, until God allows it, and it will be done on His timetable for His will.

  162. SFDBWV says:

    Pat I love the story of the Magi. God had placed the stars in the heavens as a sign and to show the seasons; yet there are different meanings to the word seasons. The first being obvious in order to know when to plant, harvest, rest etc.

    The second being the seasons of man and the signs that accompany that.

    Early man knew this very well and is why we have a zodiac; all early civilizations had a form of the zodiac we know. The Persian men of knowledge or advisors and scholars were known as the Magi and were the ruling class of their country.

    The Magi mentioned in scripture seen the sign in the stars or Zodiac of the birth of a King, and not just a King but a very special one. Their knowledge of the ancient Hebrew writings of Daniel directed them to know exactly where and when to look for this special King.

    Their curiosity to learn from the stars led them to Jesus of Nazareth; there is a wealth of knowledge to be found in just discovering what it was that the Magi knew and how they knew, what the religious elite of Israel did not, and may I add that today’s elite scholars do not know as well.

    Della, it seems you, Mart and I are about the same age.


  163. confeticat says:

    In Hebrew Taurus is known as ALEPH, the FIRST, reminding us that Yahushua is the First and the Last! The Alf-Taf in
    Revelation 1:8. In Aleph, we have 7 stars, the Pleiades or sisters. Before Pesach, VENUS or KOCHEVET, or Zeroua-SEED in
    Hebrew, is called the BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR-Yahushua (Revelation 22: 16), who inspects the 7 sister stars, to see if
    HIS BRIDES are truly ready to celebrate the redemption of His Passover. By Passover a few days later, VENUS will
    intercourse or plant HIS SEED or ZERA and enter HIS WIVES, Pleiades, to make sure that He is in eternal marriage
    covenants with them. IN HEBREW the Pleiades IS KNOWN AS KEE-MAW, meaning the pivot or hinge. In other words,
    understanding Yahushua’s interaction with KEE-MAW, determines or is THE HINGE or the PIVOTAL heavenly sign for you
    to understand how this age ends and who the bride truly is! JOB 38:31 SAYS NO MAN CAN BIND THE SWEET INFLUENCESLOVE
    MOVEMENTS OF THE PLEIADES! Let us look further into these influential sweethearts!
    The 7 wives or sister wives, prophetically reveal the coming Kingdom on earth, where all end time 7 assemblies of
    Revelation 1:4 enter in with their Bridegroom Yahushua into the Kingdom. The activity in Taurus-Aleph, perfectly models
    the prophecy of Isaiah chapter 4:1, where 7 stars or 7 women are called by the Bridegroom’s Name, in the day when
    YAHUSHUA arises as VENUS, the Bright and Morning Star, to wash away the filth of the daughters of Zion!
    This matches perfectly with Revelation 19:5-9, where Moshiach is said to celebrate the PASSOVERS or The Marriage
    Suppers of the Lamb! Please note that these verses also speak of the fine linen of tzedakah-righteousness. In Hebrew the
    planet JUPITER is called TZEDAKAH! TZEDAKAH is in the constellation of Aires-the Ram, right NEXT TO VENUS-KOCHEVET, as
    it requires both Yahushua and HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS granted to His 7 wives/assemblies, in order for them to be ready
    for both Pesach and eternity itself, the MARRIAGE PASSOVER SUPPERS of the Lamb! Wherever you find VENUS in the skies
    in Aviv, you will find HIS TZEDAKAH close by! We need both HIS BLOOD and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS to be one of His 7 starscochavim!
    Yahushua entering His wives on Passover speaks prophetically of the time when we will celebrate the Marriage Suppers in
    the heavens with our Moshiach. This heavenly sign every Pesach speaks of HIS LIGHT AND GLORY, TEFIRETH AND
    SHECHINAH, overshadowing all 7 end time wives, as the betrothed ones become the married ones. This plural marriage
    turns these 7 end time wives-assemblies into the ONE VIRTUOUS WOMAN or THE ESHET CHAYIL of Proverbs 31, with her 6
    other handmaidens. Those who continue to rail against biblical and blessed plural marriage, not only misrepresent YHWH
    and Scripture, but deny the affirmation of the plural nature of Messiah’s bride, as RECORDED FOR PERPETUITY IN THE
    HEAVENS! Recall that any truth from YHWH’s Word, is recorded in both the heavens and the earth. Be warned that if you
    continue to deny and accuse others on this vital restoration truth, you are denying both what has been declared on earth
    and in the heavens! ABBA thy will indeed be done on earth as it is being done in the heavens!

  164. phpatato says:

    There are those (I am one) who take the Zodiac and the horoscopes based on the Zodiac as occult. I don’t pay attention to any of it but sadly there are some who allow that to rule their everyday life. It, to me, falls in line with going to fortune tellers with their crystal balls. To me, it’s all garbage and I avoid it like the plague.

    That is not saying that God will not use what He has created and placed for His good purpose. The stars being one of them. But man in his curiosity has veered off course on this one. Man/woman being able to predict the future whether through a crystal ball or in tea leaves or by reading the stars through the horoscope is all for naught. Unfortunately for some, they have been so sucked in that they actually won’t get out of bed if the daily horoscope tells them to stay there because something bad will happen. Much like old wives tales…opening up an umbrella inside or stepping on a crack, they live in fear everyday.

  165. poohpity says:

    That teaching is from “The RAMYK” who also holds to the belief that the Bible is not correct and is false in it’s witness especially when it comes to denying plural marriages. confeticat copied from some of that material and did not site it. It is not astrology but in my opinion goofology.

  166. confeticat says:

    It was from Rabbi K’s site which I have cited. Have a Subway Sandwich.

  167. poohpity says:

    If you understand the difference in cited and sited then you understand that you in fact did not cite where it came from as well as other postings from him when asked about where you were getting your ideology. Do you feel honesty is a bad thing? A Subway sandwich sounds pretty good for lunch but I have not had breakfast yet are you buying? Left field is the site. I have grown to love you and the humor in your inconsistencies but you may enjoy talking with those who are like minded and we believe in the whole Bible and your Rabbi picks and chooses. Does he teach that lying and mail fraud are good?

  168. phpatato says:

    Wow confeticat, those weird words…do you actually believe all that? Just asking because as I scrolled past your lengthy post, I couldn’t help but notice a passion in which you posted, so it seems you do believe them (I am referring to the capital letters and exclamation marks indicating the passion). Is this another new age religion?

    Sorry for being ignorant but when it comes to this stuff, I prefer to be. I like to focus on the Bible and what it says, to feed my mind. I am very hestitant to open doors especially if they are hot to the touch. You can be certain that satan is behind those ones.

  169. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    There are many things put in place by God that will be revealed before and on the great day of His return that relate to passages in the Bible.
    We know the moon will turn to blood and stars will fall.
    Even the Great Pyramid in Egypt will have its cap stone put in place after all these centuries.
    All the study in the world will not reveal everything but, like Steve said, the Magi knew an awful lot more than we do today.
    We tend to see what we want to see. The Magi were looking for a Messiah King, the Hebrew Scholars and Pharisees were trying to hold on to power.


  170. confeticat says:

    Now let’s stand for the benediction by … Rev/Captain James T. Kirk.


    Of course associate pastor Spock is more LOGICAL in his approach to ministry.

  171. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    That is why the Bible comes alive and every word is fresh to those who love and hunger after the God who became a servant and friend.

    Messiah, Kink of Kings forever and ever.

    One little scripture quoted in confeticats pillaged post.
    Revelation 22: 16
    Jesus is both a descendant & root of David.

    Before Abraham was I AM.

  172. Bob in Cornwall England says:

    King of Kings!!….. before someone not to far away takes that one apart.

  173. His Sparrow says:

    Hi Confecticat

    thank you for letting us get to know you “more better;” the longer one is here, the more one is revealed…

    do you believe the writing you posted at 9:01 am? or is it just entertaining, or something else?

    thank you for your response

    His Sparrow

  174. remarutho says:

    Zum Golli — I think we have seen the kabbalah knocked pretty far into left field here. There’s still a slight LDS spin on the thing, — so yowzah! Better have a big ball-park with everything, as opposed to a Subway! Hold the secret sauce. Blessings, Maru

  175. foreverblessed says:

    Bob, you gave me a good laugh, with the Kin… oops King.
    There is so much knowledge, outside the bible.
    I used to be very curious about all these facts, but the more I get to know Jesus on a very personal level, I have become satisfied, all is well. Maybe a lot of things I do not even want to know. Maybe God thought it best for our welfare not to know everything, knowledge can kill. The tree of knowledge was a killer.
    If it makes our love for our Maker and the love for our fellow men less, then it is a killer. Love is above all.
    And God is love. I can trust Him, and I want to trust Him more and more.
    If time is there I maybe want to know what lives on Mars, but I don’t think it is detected by science.

    To come back to Mart’s original question, do we overlook the obvious, and that is the realisation that Jesus is with us, always. I can rejoice now about that fact, and love Him even more

  176. poohpity says:

    If we have curiosity about finding truth and search for it with all our hearts it will be found. Proverbs 12:17; 22:21 John 3:21; 8:32, 44; 17:17.
    It seems this Rabbi guy is living what we are warned against in Acts 20:30.

    In my curiosity the one thing I have always wanted to know is truth and how can I believe someone who is not honest and that honesty is proven by what one says and does. So then words are just words to be heard but saying nothing.

  177. poohpity says:

    1 Cor 13:6

  178. poohpity says:

    Bob, He (Jesus) actually was a kink to what we think of as Kings. :-)

  179. phpatato says:



  180. royalpalm says:

    Yes, Claudia. Amen!!!

    Narrow, it is good to hear from you. I also will continue to commit you to our Lord and Saviour, and I pray for His lovingkindness and tendermercies even as you have to do what He has chosen for you to do especially right now. I pray that He Himself will carry the burdens that He placed on your shoulders, and draw you unto Himself.

    With your BTA family, we want you to always remember that, aside from being chosen, you are also holy and dearly loved by God, (Col. 3:12) and Jesus Himself is praying for you. Rom. 8:34 and that nothing can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom. 8:38, 39.

    I always praise God for His love and how His love is shown here in BTA – in how each encourage and “bear with each other”…As I read the posts, I am reminded of Jesus’ encounter with the rich young ruler who wanted to know how to have eternal life. (Mark 10: 17-22) The conversation revealed his wrong notion about God and himself. Nevertheless we read in Mark 10:21 that Jesus loved him. This is the wonder of God’s love – it covers all our sins including our wrong ideas about Him and about ourselves and of each other. What a comfort even as we express ourselves in this blogs!

    God desires worshippers that worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23,24) and I praise Him for those who contend for His truth in this forum. Keep the faith – He deserves all the glory, honor and praise!

  181. davids says:

    This conversation has just taken too wierd a turn for me. I don’t want to get involved in Talmudic convolutions of scripture.

  182. royalpalm says:

    Davids, I understand your frustration and I am sorry, if we sometimes veer away from the topic; we need to address other concerns that arise; I appreciate your patience…

    My son’s room has a wall covered with “Earthrise” – Astronaut Frank Borman’s photograph of the earth rising above the moon – the most famous picture taken from space, when the first manned vehicle Apollo 8 circled the moon on December 24, 1968. The awesome beauty of the Earth was a fitting background when the 3 astronauts read Genesis 1:1-10. In his autobiography Countdown, Frank Borman later wrote, “There was one more impression we wanted to transmit: our feeling of closeness to the Creator of all things.”

    IMHO, this is the reason why God has endowed us with curiosity – to bring us closer to Himself , the Creator.

  183. bubbles says:

    It will be wonderful when we are in Heaven to see our Lord Jesus face to face.

    It will also be wonderful to have our questions of curiousity answered at last.

    We do not have all the answers, and many times we do not know enough to even ask the questions, but we know the One who has all the answers. He’s always good, and He is in control of all things. And we can talk to Him at any time and any place. He WANTS us to talk to Him. What an amazing and comforting truth.

  184. royalpalm says:

    P.S. Seven months after Apollo 8 mission, Apollo 11 was launched and the “Eagle” landed on the moon. The whole world rejoiced and celebrated as Neil Armstrong made his first step on the Moon with his famous words, “”That’s one small step for man; one giant leap for mankind”.

    I was living in Asia then and I remember my friend telling his grandfather that man has landed on the moon, and his reply, “How can that be? One night the moon is up there (pointing to one part of the sky) and the next night it is there (pointing to another). That is impossible!”

    When told that it was true and the Americans have done it, he was not convinced. “I know the Americans – they will tell you anything if you are not careful. I know because I have worked with them”. Apparently he had worked with some US sailors during his younger years…

    (Sorry if this is not about curiosity)

  185. poohpity says:

    When we are spreading the Gospel we will run into many who will have all kinds of different beliefs and thought processes. Hopefully they will be curious about the way we live our lives to inquire with much curiosity because we have acted in such a way that they desire to know.

    Some Christians have been believers from generation to generation and do not really know why they believe they way they believe. When we get pushed out of our comfort zone we will be able to discuss why we know that what we believe is truth. How do we know when something is truth? We could just say, “Well because I have faith I believe” but that does not explain really the truths that are in God’s Word and many have tried to prove them to be false but truth remains through the centuries. But we have to be sure of the truth we believe especially when we will be asked to share how we now it is truth.

  186. poohpity says:

    “know” not now. Gee I mess up often.

  187. narrowpathseeker says:

    I am still having problems with my pc freezing up on me when I take too long to write…or so it seems. Steve that was so kind that you would have gone to the river to check on me if you lived near by. I am still touched by all the caring I received here and a few times today when I began to have ill feelings, I thought of all the prayers, kindness and good advice and I snapped right out of it.

    Pat, thank you, on one of those occasions today, I broke out in song…One day at a time Sweet Jesus.. and then I smiled a thank you to you.

    Foreverblessed, that was a very interesting thought that I am reliving past events but this time with God to heal my wounds from deep inside. That definitely sheds a different light on this ordeal and I think it will be a lot easier to take if and when it happens again. Thank you so much for all your prayers and concern.

    Della, yes it is wonderful to be part of this beautiful family. Thank you for your prayers, concern and kind words.

    Claudia, I am glad that you are blessed to have so much of God’s incredible creation and artwork in your backyard. I spend a few days with my daughter campsite on the RI beaches in the Summer months and have watched the sunrise over his wondrous works.

    Cherielyn…thank you so much for your kindness and concern and prayers. Again, I am so sorry that I frightened you. But, I am very glad you got so many prayers going out for me. I was truly at a point that I just wanted to go home and be with Jesus and yet at the same time feared that He may not have wanted me with Him. I know now that was nonsense but it seemed very real to me and I’m sure that it was all the prayers that lifted me out of that snare and showed me the need to be connected with His children.

    Royal, thank you…you have all been so kind…and yes I thanked God for this very special family yesterday. It is funny that you wrote that nothing can separate us from the love of God tonight, because I did feel very separated from Him today at the river. I didn’t feel his presence early this morning. There wasn’t one single bird chirping and the river is so low that I couldn’t even hear it running over the rocks about 40 feet downstream. The only presence was mosquitos, an occasional fish jumping and what seemed like dead air..very still and thick. My beautiful sanctuary seemed lifeless. I prayed, but I didn’t sense Him listening and fear began to come on me once again. I thought of all the love and prayers I had received here and decided I was not going to leave until I knew God was there. It was well over an hour…almost two, before a gentle cool breeze began to flow towards me, then the distant chirps of birds, then a hawk,and then a squirrel. I think He wanted me to realize that no matter what things look and feel like, that He is there…..nearby. He didn’t come close today…I didn’t SEE one bird, or the hawk, but He let me hear them so I would KNOW He was there. God Bless each and everyone of you…and may those of you suffering from the heat and lack of rain get relief soon.

  188. royalpalm says:

    Narrow, we thank God for reminding you of His presence through the chirping of the birds and the gentle breeze. He is faithful and trustworthy and will never leave you nor forsake you. We continue to remember you in our prayers.

    Note: my 10:03pm post was not intended to offend anybody but to stress that in the minds of a lot of simple, ordinary people man’s landing on the moon was highly improbable, if not impossible. Yet God allowed the mission to succeed. (The box at the end was supposed to be a smiley :o)

  189. foreverblessed says:

    Narrow, you brought tears to my eyes, God did show Himself after an hour. What if He lingers more then an hour? As RoyalPalm wrote, He never leaves us nor forsakes us. But that’s why it is often said in the New Testament, hold on to your faith, do no let go.
    Davids, I am sorry too.
    Now someone urges us that we have to believe in multiple marriages…
    Can you imagine what happens to people who do not know the real truth, and get all kinds of this kind of stuff, how messed up their thinking becomes. It is a real miracle when Jesus can shine through and bring His light.
    It bottoms down in all that we have to believe is that Jesus is the Christ come in human body, taking our sins and shame, and that we live in the power of His risen Life, to follow Him in His way of living, and that is love God, and love neighbour as He loved us.

  190. foreverblessed says:

    This topic had made me think of Mary Magdalene, when she was in the garden looking for the Christ, when she recognised Him she said: Rabboni. It must mean something like this: all the treasures on earth and in heaven was found here in front of her. The one she had been looking for so desperately, like Narrow was, and couldn’t find, Song of songs 3:1-2,3-4. He was now here!
    What could all other matter be of any concern for her, she found her treasure, great Pearl. John 20:14-15,16
    He is here today too, that is the first curiosity to be met everyday, that realisation, Rabboni

  191. SFDBWV says:

    As I was watching the pictures this morning from Curiosity of the surface of Mars one of the pictures that came up is an aerial view of the Mojave Desert to show as a comparison.

    The most striking difference stands out right away; even the Mojave Desert has the fingerprint life, but the scene on Mars is a barren lifeless wasteland.

    I think there is a comparison to be made of some people. If we could *see* into some people clearly; an arid lifeless wasteland is just what may come up.

    Have said it before will say it again; Jesus said what is in our hearts will come out of our mouths (comments).

    Another trip to the heart doctor today, he wanted to see me about some medicine issues. So the family and I are off to Morgantown this morning, I pray you all are blessed today.


  192. confeticat says:

    Dudes don’t hang with chicks. Not in the BAT family anyway. Tend to your knitting, ladies.

  193. confeticat says:

    BTA family – typo

  194. confeticat says:

    You’ve heard of the Unfinished Symphony, I have just spotted the unfinished sermon. I would like to expand on the Ramyk’s ’Was Monogamy the Original Perfect Pattern‘?

    Quote: “The idea that Adam had a wife prior to Eve is developed from an interpretation of the Book of Genesis and its dual creation accounts; while Genesis 2:21-25 describes Yahuwah’s creation of Eve from Adam’s rib, an earlier passage, Genesis 1:27, already indicates that a woman has been made: ‘So Yahuwah created man in his own image, in the image of Yahuwah created he him; male and female created he them.’ The chronology of the text places Eve’s creation after Yahuwah’s words in Genesis 2:18 that ‘it is not good for man to be alone’ because Lilith had already gone her own way by refusing to be with Adam, even though she had not yet left the garden! Back in Genesis 1:27 Yahuwah forms Lilith out of the clay from which he made Adam but she and Adam bicker. Lilith claims that since she and Adam were created in the same way they were equal and she refuses to submit to him.”

    He goes on to say how polygamy saved Adam from the first matriarchal uprising, that Lilith was how the serpent got into the garden (the real question on their minds), and so on. Now your first question is, where did Lilith come from? There’s no Lilith in the Bible! Well darned if I know where she comes from! I don’t remember her from Sunday School! It sounds like a made-up story! Who in their right mind would believe this!

    But by the same token, and the seeming two accounts of creation, it could also be deduced that there were two Adams. After all, there would have had to have been an Adam in both accounts too. Now who would say such a thing? Wait a minute, try Paul – he said it! I Cor. 15:45: So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person. But the last Adam – that is, Christ – is a life-giving spirit.” I Cor. 15:22: “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”

    In Rom. 5:12-19 Paul builds a case against the first Adam. “For the sin of this of this one man Adam, caused death to rule over many….Yes, Adam’s one sin brings condemnation for everyone. Because one person disobeyed God, many became sinners, but because one other person obeyed God, many will be made righteous. “ And with his teaching on the two natures, he has us serving both Adams at the same time (Rom. 7:25)!

    But remember, if there were two Adams it had to have been the second Adam who sinned in the Garden. So maybe Jewish tradition can be useful after all.

    Two Adams – talk about comparing apples and oranges! You don’t compare the created with the Creator. You don’t compare the sinner with God. You don’t give them the same name. There was not even a Messiah as such at that time, as there were no Jewish people. So what was Paul trying to do? He was trying to make Jesus human – the God-man! The second Adam, only this one was a better human? NO! John 1:1-4; Heb. 1:1-3

    Jews have their traditions, Christians have theirs (I Cor. 11:2;II Thess. 2:15). As the Ramyk says in another sermon, there is only one salvation issue – whom do men say that I am. But let’s be sure they have the right Jesus.

  195. Bill says:

    @confeticat, I remember asking you a week or two ago about the Jewish slant to your comments. You said you aren’t Jewish. But what you didn’t say is that you’re heavily influenced by Jewish teachings. Ramyk and/or Jewish tradition influences you greatly, it seems.

    Questions: Why do you put so much stock in what Ramyk says? How do you know he’s right? Although it’s possible for one man to speak truth when all others lie, it’s highly unlikely given the systematic theology that has developed over the centuries. If he’s wrong, then you’re wrong. If he’s right, then many giants of the faith are wrong.


    1. I once studied the two-creation/two-Adam theory. I think it’s most closely associated with Charismatic teachers, such as the late Derek Prince — who also, coincidentally, was influenced by Jewish theologies and renderings of Hebrew words in Genesis. This is usually referred to as a “pre-Adamic” theory — the notion that there was a race of beings created before Adam and that the creation account in Genesis is a kind of Part Two — not a creation, but a RE-creation because the pre-Adamic race was destroyed and God started over.

    Your citation of the “first Adam” and “last Adam” scripture is incorrectly applied. It doesn’t refer to two Adams in Genesis. It refers to one Adam in Genesis, and then a metaphorical Adam (Christ) as Savior. It was Paul’s attempt to tie the beginning to the end, the first and the last.

    2. There actually IS a Lilith in the Bible. Isaiah 34:14 (NASB) says:

    “The desert creatures will meet with the wolves, The hairy goat also will cry to its kind; Yes, the night monster will settle there And will find herself a resting place.”

    The Hebrew word translated as “night monster” is lilith.

    So if there’s a Lilith in the Bible at all, she’s a night monster, and not a suitable mate for Adam.

    You seem to be incredibly mixed up in your theology, misapplying scriptures left and right, and asserting as fact that which is highly speculative at best. How did you go from being raised by RBC Ministries (as you wrote in answer to my queries about you) to falling prey to such poor theology and false doctrines?

    Is there anything we can do to help you see the lies you believe?

  196. cherielyn says:

    This morning as I was thinking about and praying for you, a verse came to my mind: “Be still, and know that I am God:………..” Psalm 46:10(KJV)

    When I read the rest of the verse, “be still” did not mean what I thought it meant, so out of CURIOSITY I decided to see what other versions said. Out of six versions, 5 had the identical wording, but in Young’s Literal Translation, “be still” is shown as desist.

    I just felt led to delve into the meaning of desist and this is what I found that seemed appropriate to what the verse was saying: A cease and desist order means to halt (cease) an activity and not to take it up (desist) again later.

    Reflecting on what you said about how you did not feel God’s presence until you HEARD birds chirping, FELT the breeze and SAW the hawk & squirrel, got me thinking about Fanny Crosby and how, although she could not see the marvel of God’s creation, her heart overflowed with the love of Christ and manifested itself in the outpouring of numerous hymns.

    There is probably an outstanding deaf Christian out there, somewhere, who has had the same Fanny Crosby experience, but none come to mind right now, unable to hear birds chirping, etc, but yet able to praise God for His creation and goodness.

    The point I am trying to make is that even if we don’t always feel, see or hear His presence, He is there, even in the stillness. I thought there was a verse to that effect, but haven’t been able to find it.

    I am praying for you that God will loose the chains of bondage that you seem to have from past horrible events in your life. I really can identify with you because I have been through similar. The father of my first child tried to kill me twice (among other abuses). It took many years to shake loose those chains, but with His help I am free of the thoughts that used to plague me. Although, I do admit that my situation is not quite the same as yours since my nemesis is not in my life and I don’t have the constant reminders that you have in caring for yours in spite of the past abuses that were inflicted upon you.

    Let me leave you with this last scripture reference: “Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.” Isaiah 26:3(KJV)

    I will continue to uplift you in prayer.

  197. confeticat says:

    It seems you are deliberately trying to avoid connecting with your Jewish family. First it’s the Catholics, now it’s the Jews. Almost all of us are part Jewish.

    I don’t even know who Ramyk is. It may be Rabbi K in disguise. They look a lot alike. Maybe it’s his brother, Ramy K, I don’t know. i do know that Rabbi K is Spirit-filled and he would not put a false teacher on his site. The title of the sermon I used was in the form of a question, so i don’t believe it takes a position on monogamy one way or the other.

    You put stock in these so-called “giants of the faith” who have led us astray, so what’s the difference?

    1. i would guess the two-creation theory comes from kabbalah rather than Derek Prince, who was a fine man. I sense a little hostility toward Charismatics too. You haven’t taken the time to look that up so how much studying could you have done?

    Paul’s attempt to tie two Adams together was a fool’s errand. 1 Adam + 1 Adam = 2 Adams

    2. So there’s another Lilith in the Bible. You know that’s not the one we’re talking about so why do you bring it up? You’re grasping at straws here.

    Don’t blame me on RBC Ministries. I can get into enough trouble on my own.

    Yes, you can help us all see the lies when you enter God’s Kingdom.

  198. Bill says:

    Hi confeticat,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I can assure you I’m not hostile toward anyone. I used to listen to Derek Prince’s teaching tapes and read his books. I don’t recall saying anything negative about him. But that doesn’t mean everything he said was correct. The teaching about the pre-Adamic race seemed like a stretch to me, and it’s not a teaching I’ve heard from many others. That doesn’t make it wrong or right. I merely pointed out that he taught that theory.

    I have nothing against Catholics, either. The post you referred to was when I quoted Mother Theresa. Your statement make it seem like I mentioned her only to appease Catholics. I happen to think Mother Theresa was a wonderful women who was an inspiration to us all. I was raised Catholic until I was about 10 or so. A decade and a half later I accepted Christ as my Savior and was born again. I am a Christian. But I hold nothing against Catholics. I have many Catholic friends. They’re fine people.

    Charismatics are people I hung around with for a few years back in my early Christian years. I attended Charismatic churches. I read Charismatic books by Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, and E.W. Kenyon, among others. Two decades ago, I realized that Charismatic teachings are not for me. I’m more of Francis Schaeffer, A.W. Tozer, Charles Colson, Charles Spurgeon, Vance Havner, Ravi Zacharias, Josh McDowell, and Mart DeHaan kind of guy now. But that doesn’t mean I am hostile toward Charismatics. I just disagree with their theology.

    As far as Jewish folks go, I happen to dig them. In fact, I dated a Jewish gal once, many years ago, who was a Messianic Jew — a Christian Jew. I even went to her family’s temple a time or two. It was a great experience.

    Paul saying there was an Adam in the beginning who ushered sin into the world, and a second Adam (not literally, but figuratively) in Christ who took away the world’s sins was not a fool’s errand. I thought it was a brilliant way to explain Jesus’ mission — to take away the first man’s sins.

    You wrote that there’s no Lilith mentioned in the Bible. I cited a verse that uses the Hebrew word lilith. So there actually IS a lilith mentioned in the Bible, albeit in the original language. No straws grasped at because no straws were needed. You made a statement. I mentioned a fact that contradicted it. The fact that the lilith I mentioned wasn’t the same Lilith you mentioned is irrelevant. I merely found it interesting that the word does exist in the Old Testament.

    I’m not blaming you on RBC Ministries. I merely wondered how you got from RBC Minstries to where you are now. RBC Ministries is incredibly solid, theologically. That means somewhere along the way in your walk, you diverged from that path. What prompted that? Was it an event? Or particular book? A person? Understanding that may help me (and all of us) understand you better.

    Thanks for being here. I look forward to your next posts.

  199. confeticat says:

    I like your style of writing, it’s very easy to go through. I was having a little fun at your expense, but you have fallen into the trap of defining yourself by the group you are in, or by the leaders of that group. I used to do that too. But I got hold of John 17, a prayer from the heart of Jesus to his Father, praying that all his children may be one as he and his Father are one. He will accomplish that, ironically, by first of all dividing all that is divisible, or as Hebrews puts it, shaking all that can be shaken. One time his disciples came to him and said, “Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn’t in our group.” Jesus said, “Don’t stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you.” (Luke 9:49,50) It doesn’t seem that way at times, I know.

    The other mistake the Church makes is to think WE can accomplish unity ourselves. Since we’re at the bottom of the blog here I’ll confide in you a mistake I made. I suspect it was my last pastor who wrote that phony letter the other day at the end of The Gambler. He was no doubt getting even with me for what I did to him once. But I really wasn’t trying to be mean, I had been looking over Eph. 2:14-21, such a stirring passage about bringing all together as one, and I was as sincere as Linus in the pumpkin patch. He was planning some kind of conference for his group, I think there was a dinner involved at a hotel or something. I saw an opportunity here of bringing a lot of pastors together who would not normally know each other. So I sent out post cards to 100 or so, figuring not many would even respond because you know how they all stay in their little groups. But I may have underestimated the lure of a free meal. You’d think he’d be over that by now. The key is FORGIVENESS, Pastor John, if you should see this. Like the time you had a guest preacher for a healing service and he laid hands on me and I had to go to the emergency room that night. But I’m completely over that. 8-)~

    The second Adam (Christ, you say) could not take away the first Adam’s sins if he is human, or even part human. It may sound brilliant to you but it is false teaching.

    To be honest I love Benny Hinn but some of the men in your group were real hindrances to me. You can’t get here from there, from any group, you must become as a child and be born again. Not in conjunction with “accepting Christ as your Savior” – those two things don’t go together at all. ‘Christ’ brings out all the pomp and one-upmanship that makes the Church what it is today. It was Jesus himself who drew me to him.

  200. poohpity says:

    If it were Jesus who drew you to Himself then He sure would not have negated what he did on the Cross, the one and only reason He came from heaven to earth. To be our Messiah/Christ. Without the mission there would have been no need.

    I like how you try blame someone else for the mail fraud that takes the spirit of a coward. You are responsible for your own behavior no matter what anyone else does.

  201. poohpity says:

    Those of us who follow Christ accept when we do wrong and then we confess it knowing we are forgiven. So blame does not clear anything with God just another sin piled upon another sin then who takes away the sin of the world only The Christ.

  202. His Sparrow says:

    Hey NPS and Family!

    There is a huge cloud, over just my ranch, in the Mojave Desert…and I am getting a downpour!!! That is so funny God! Your mercies are new every morning.

    It never rains here…I filled up my horse tank (8ft x 3 ft) this morning so I could cool off because of predicted rolling blackouts…King Jesus to the rescue!

    Steve-you’re comment was God saying more then He said!!! Keepin’ you in prayers for your medical needs.

    His Sparrow

  203. cherielyn says:

    Anyone going to watch the Perseids meteor shower this weekend?

  204. narrowpathseeker says:

    It’s 1 am and I can’t sleep again so I thought I would put my time to good use and check out what is going on with you guys.

    Cherielyn, thank you! I went to the river a little later this morning and once again it was pretty still and quiet, but it wasn’t unsettling for me like yesterday. Then after awhile a lone hummingbird flew by dive bombing onto several different bushes. Although I have several feeders around the house, I don’t recall ever seeing a hummingbird at the river. I immediately thought of Steve and prayed for him. Now I have just read that he was going to the doctor’s this morning.

    I am not quite sure what activity you were referring to cease and desist. I’m sure you know what I would like it to mean. :) I truly appreciate the prayers.

    His Sparrow, were you one of them that was experiencing extreme heat and drought? Praise God for the rain and it was just over your ranch? Wow!! That seems to me to be a blessing that God wanted you to recognize as a special one just for you!

  205. cherielyn says:

    Actually, I didn’t mean anything when I mentioned cease and desist. It’s just that when the verse was brought to my mind, “Be still and know that I am God….” I went to look up where it was so I could reference it and when I read the entire verse, it didn’t fit in with what I thought I was being led to share with you. I was simply sharing what I discovered after reading the entire verse. I don’t know what the Holy Spirit had in mind, but now that you have asked I, too, am wondering.

    I went back and reviewed your communications: 1. From the day you were experiencing such mental anguish that you couldn’t even remember what you were writing from one minute to the next and were so fearful that you might be losing your mind. 2. From the day you told us of how still it was, not hearing birds, the river, etc.

    So, when that verse was brought to my mind I thought that maybe the message was about the stillness, “BE STILL and know that I am God……..”, but, as I said, the rest of the verse didn’t fit.

    I have pondered over it and the only thing I can think of is that perhaps the Lord wants you to cease from allowing those thoughts of the past to take over your mind and desist from taking them up again in the future?

    From my past experience, I know that is not an easy thing to do. I needed to go for counseling in order to finally be loosed from my mental anguish over the past abuses that happened to me.

    Perhaps a good Christian counselor would be helpful to you in dealing with what you need to do on a daily basis?

    Yes, I think I get the picture of what you probably would like cease and desist to mean! :)

    I will continue praying for you.

  206. cherielyn says:

    Sometimes I wish that we could communicate with others on a more personal level outside of this forum. I sometimes feel we (all of us) could get to know each other even better because we would feel more free to share more personal details that we might not in this forum. I don’t visit social networking sites, so that isn’t an option for me. A computer crash in the past, traced directly to step-grandchildren using my WiFi on Facebook keep me from wanting to compromise my system. They weren’t even on my computer when it happened, but it jumped to mine through the wireless system because mine happened to be on when they came to use the system. Not worth the expense to me.

  207. narrowpathseeker says:

    I was looking for the post about a childhood memory where it rained in the street only. I don’t have too much time, but I think it was Claudia. With all that has been written about rain confined to small areas seemingly to show us how He can care for us as well as to entertain us FOR FREE, I have to share what happened this morning after I signed off from here the first time.

    The past three days the river was very quiet and heavy with mosquitoes. This morning I went to the gazebo which overlooks the river to read and to get the mosquito repellent I had left there. I was reading about Joseph and how well he stood up to cruel injustices and His strong love for God. I was thinking how I wish I had responded like Joseph in days gone by and even NOW. I desire to be like Joseph and I may even begin to respond like him in recent years, but I am too soon whining and moaning. I even started to respond like Joseph in my present trial, but then started feeling sorry for myself. I am definitely no Joseph and that makes me sad.

    I talked to God about it, told Him I was sorry for failing so often. The next thing I heard was a very loud bird screeching in the area of the river where it had been so quiet for the 3 previous days other than the hummingbird that I had never seen there b4. I looked down and it was pouring, but ONLY IN THE RIVER!! At first I thought that the trees were blocking the rain near the gazebo, so I walked down to the river on the tree covered path. When I got to the clearing it was still just raining in the river!!! I stood there thinking of all of you that had experienced similar rain confinement. THEN while still raining the sun came out…it was about 3 minutes or so before it started pouring on the bank as well, but the sun was still shining bright!

    I got drenched getting back to the house. But back in the house, standing at the kitchen sink in my daughter’s part of the house, there was a hummingbird sitting in the tree in front of the window! I had put a feeder there this year for the first time and they have never touched it. It is burgandy instead of a bright red and I thought that was the problem. A lot of “FIRSTS” the past few days…I am not sure what the message is, but I truly believe it is from God and that is has a connection to my BTA friends.

  208. cherielyn says:


    It was I who posted about the rain, only in the street, in the “Gold for Claressa and Flint” blog on August 11, 2012 at 8:33 a.m.

    Your story of it raining only in the river is so similar! Isn’t it amazing? You’ve got to wonder if God has done that on purpose and what the message is.

    Also, I attempted to answer your question about what I meant about cease and desist on THIS blog (Curiosity) on the same date, August 11, 2012 at 8:04 a.m. It’s just a couple up from the one you posted above this one.

  209. narrowpathseeker says:

    I’m sorry Cherie, I looked quick to see who that was but when I don’t type or click on something for any length of time, my pc freezes up. I was pretty sure it was you or Claudia…I remembered that it started with a “C” lol. I do think the fact seeing it rain in the river only so soon after Sparrows, Steves, and your message about the rain is no coincidence.

    I thought I had replied to your cease and desist explanation, but it was probably one of those times the pc froze up because I was looking for the post to reply to the rest of it and it didn’t get submitted. Like you, I tend to think if some part of scripture moves me to look it up, that there is a deeper message in that part. I think your explanation is exactly what He wants me to do. thank you.

    I was pretty much joking about what I was hoping it meant and being that you’ve “been there” I figured you would understand what I meant. I’m glad that your wounds were healed and that you don’t have to deal with him anymore at all. I think the Lord is stretching my endurance levels and that I will be dealing with this until I stop opposing the length of time I may have to endure it. Like I said in another post…I am no Joseph..I was certain I could do this with God’s help at one point. It was easy and I had the joy of the Lord in my heart, but when I saw no end to it and started getting frequent flashbacks, I wanted out and started whining.

    When someone helps me with something but moans and groans about it, I would rather they didn’t bother. I think God may feel the same way when He is helping me and I moan and groan about it anyway..so I have to start over until I get a right attitude and hang onto it. Cease from complaining and when I do stop I can’t take it back up again…thank you Cherie.

  210. His Sparrow says:

    Claudia-yes the Mojave Desert has a drought/heat cycle of about six years – and yes I got that just for me rain cloud-it does make me curious why these things do happen, and I can only look up and laugh with Him.

    And God sent just-for-us rains everywhere, I read now! Halleluah! God is with us!

    Narrow-I’m so willful at times, God has just stopped telling me be still and know that I am God, now it’s just Be Still! So I do, for about ten minutes :)

    There’s a lot of Godly counsel in the Discovery Series booklets on this site and Help for My Life – you are not alone in your suffering and you don’t have to be alone-that’s what the enemy wants…to isolate you-you can even get these resources mailed to you. If your computer insists on insanity, try the public library. I used it alot when I was moneyless.

    His Sparrow

  211. narrowpathseeker says:

    His Sparrow…lol…you can make it 10 minutes?!!

    Thank you Sparrow…I do get the Discovery Series booklets mailed to me at home and I have read several of them and then share them with a shelter. I know they have been very helpful to me along the way. Unfortunately, I have come to the place of “forever learning and never remembering what I have learned” One time one of Mart’s BTA tracts was so profound and powerful that I think I put it away so I could read it again and again. When I couldn’t find it I wanted to request another but I couldn’t remember what it was about…only that it was powerful.

    Thank you Steve, I love reading the interesting stories about past and present experiences, especially those to which I can relate. Some are heartwarming, humorous, inspiring and/or sad. I was afraid I had gone overboard.

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