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Moses, Joshua and Jesus

P1030081_SnapseedOne of the most convincing evidences of the inspiration of the Old and New Testaments for me is the way so many patterns and word pictures end up being fulfilled— in a way that could not have been foreseen or orchestrated by human authors.

One example that I have been thinking a lot about lately is the relationship between Moses who gave Israel the law; Joshua who led them into the promised land; and Jesus who, in the end, personifies and gives us fullness of meaning to the earlier two.

Moses is the law giver who was not allowed to lead Israel into the promised land because— the second time he miraculously provided water for Israel in the wilderness—he used his staff to hit the rock rather than simply speaking to it as instructed  (Num 20:8-12).

After Moses’ death on the threshold of the Promised Land (even though, at 120, he didn’t die of old age) (Deut 34:5-7), Joshua became the one to miraculously lead Israel into their promised land— and whose name  happens to be the Hebrew equivalent of Jesus (Yeshua).

According to the New Testament, Jesus was the Rock that came after them (1Cor 10:4); and that such events happened as a pattern and challenge for us (1Cor 10:11).

The question I’d like for us to think through together is—as we now, 2000 years later walk plod through our own wilderness toward a yet unfulfilled Promise—what can we learn from the relationship of Moses, Joshua, and Jesus that can help us lead— rather than distract and divert— others to the water giving Rock…not yet found?

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57 Responses to “Moses, Joshua and Jesus”

  1. cbrown says:

    God has a perfect plan for His creation and does things good all the time.If you seek His perfect will for your life He will give you victory and invite you into His Kingdom.But you have to take the 1st step with your heart saying,” I believe Jesus is the Son of God and through His sacrifice I have been redeemed. Make me into the person You want me to be.
    Then you need to look to God daily to teach you from His Word.
    The picture above of the man searching God’s Word says that to me.

  2. poohpity says:

    I think it would be hard to lead anyone to the Lord if one does not follow after Him themselves. The use of distraction and diversion seems to be used to guide away not to.

    With Moses I would think it would have been appealing and look more miracle like to “speak” to the rock than to hit it but in his (Mose’s) anger caused a distraction so while at one time he seemed to be guiding them to the Lord his anger diverted their attention to him.

  3. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    What I am searching for are those times in their lives (and there are many) when each of these leaders was first and foremost a seeker of God’s presence. Moses, once he “turned aside to see “this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up,” could be found by his people in the tent of meeting — praying and listening to God.

    Joshua also tenaciously sought God’s presence (Ex 33:11) — “…this servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.”

    Jesus, though he was divine himself, would intentionally and frequently seek God’s company. (Luke 5:16)

    These servants of God you mention, Mart, eagerly sought out God’s company because of each one’s radical dependence upon the Lord’s personal presence. It seems to me any Jesus-follower in our day would be most eager to drink water from the Rock — in the sense of making that Rock the solid center of life daily, eagerly and prayerfully. Then, (s)he would have a fresh witness of God’s love for everyone all day long.


  4. jeff1 says:

    The good news is that it is God’s plan, the bad news is that man seems to be at a low point in carrying it out. Which brings us to Christ being the first and the last, the beginning and the end, the people of the past were told this and it is still the message today 2000 years on. Will everyone believe that of course not, does it matter to God probably not he knew from the beginning man would fail. God has chosen those whom he will use, I hope he will use me but in the big scheme of things I am a small fish. I would assume he would use people in power who can make a difference in this world and people like myself to support them. I believe what God is saying to us is that you may fail or succeed in this world but either way I have your back Christ is the fulfilment of all time, all creeds, all nations. With God there is no end for all time is eternal. I believe God wants us to believe and trust him but stop trying to do his job for him. Please God do not let me get in the way of your will but let me be in accordance with your will.

  5. SFDBWV says:

    Moses, Joshua, Jesus.
    Moses, Elijah, Jesus.

    The person of Moses continues to have a part in God’s plans.

    It has been said that Moses represents the past and Jesus the future in some references of Scripture; the old/the new.

    Neither Moses nor Joshua or Elijah could have accomplished anything without the anointing from God.

    (I have only included Elijah in my discussion because of his appearance at the Mount of Transfiguration.)

    To the Hebrew people who through tradition and folklore believed in the promises the God of their forefather’s Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were told concerning them, Moses became their “savior” who brought them out of slavery in Egypt and led them to a “Promised Land”. Reintroducing them to their forefather’s God.

    This of course is the role, on a much larger scale, of Jesus, to not only the people Israel, but of all of mankind.

    Jesus takes us out of the slavery to sin to the promise of a better life, even an eternal life in a better place, better even than paradise; to a “promised land”.

    There are plenty of varying thoughts on why what occurred during that wilderness journey, but this one thing remains in Joshua we see that he believed God.

    Moses could not have accomplished any of the events that led him to the point of entry into the Promised Land without the anointing of God upon him and neither could have Joshua when he crossed over the Jordan river.

    The “power” behind both men remains Jesus.

    It has been said that Moses represented the old and Joshua the new as they entered into the Promised Land and so the old life was left behind for the new life that lay ahead.

    The common base of both, God’s purposes.

    At the Mount of Transfiguration we see three men Jesus, Moses and Elijah. Moses had died, Elijah had been “taken up” and Jesus is seen in His transfigured state.

    Fact, symbolism, and future promise all seen in this vision.

    Moses, Joshua, Elijah and even Jesus as a man, all accomplished their purposes and the will of God.

    Is this not all of our purposes?


  6. SFDBWV says:

    Jeff1 it took me over an hour to write my last comment amid numerous interruptions, I seen after I posted and read yours we were on a similar concept. Nice job.


  7. remarutho says:

    Mart, you asked:

    “…what can we learn from the relationship of Moses, Joshua, and Jesus that can help us lead— rather than distract and divert— others to the water giving Rock…not yet found?”

    I immediately thought of each person’s relationship with God. They each have a relationship with one another as well — and Elijah (all the prophets in fact) is included around the table, in worship and in meeting the challenges of this “wilderness” of the world. Each of the figures in Scripture offers us (singly and as a fellowship) the benefit of their unique relationship with God and the whole “cloud of witnesses.” (Heb 12:1, 2)

    It seems to me one of the hallmarks of the journey of faith is that we are never alone!


  8. joycemb says:

    Maru I love your last sentence. Yes, we are never alone in our journey of faith. Keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus as He was held up by our great leaders makes me smile today. I will be thinking about this all day! Blessings, Joyce

  9. joycemb says:

    This afternoon I’m thinking of how perseverance to the end is what is needed. A good read called “A Long Obedience in the Same Direction: Discipleship in an instant society” by Eugene Peterson reminds me of the importance of walking our faith out until the end.

    Our lives, our roles certainly can seem boring, mundane, and ineffectual at times, but these men kept on keeping on, and the outcome was certainly important to the whole picture.


    Beautiful, costly, hidden at times.

    We cannot see how important our lives are to the whole picture, but I trust that God does, or else He would not keep reproducing us.

    What a ride this life is!

  10. SFDBWV says:

    I am zeroing in on Marts challenge for us to think about, as we journey on our own wilderness walk, how the relationship of Moses, Joshua, and Jesus help us to lead others to Jesus rather than distract them from it.

    Have you noticed how no one’s talents are exactly like another’s?

    Moses was a leader, Joshua was a leader and Jesus (the man) was a leader and much more. We all can’t lead in the way any of them did, but our words and especially our actions can *point* the way to Jesus and ultimately their salvation.

    It almost seems at times that the relationship between Moses and God, as read in the Scriptures, was at times confusing.

    Moses’ initial motivation was to help his “brothers and sisters” and so thought he could by killing an Egyptian task master, but instead of being thanked for his deed the very people he thought he would help turned him in.

    However God had already put Moses in the position of growing into the man he would become so that when the time was right the right man was in place to end His 400 years of silence and begin the Exodus.

    Moses had no idea until he stood before the burning bush and talked with God that God had a purpose for him and in fact when he learned of it he didn’t want to have anything to do with it.

    God constantly had to push, prod and even give in now and then to get Moses to follow instructions or agree to continue.

    Now as I write this I get the feeling that a lot of us can relate to Moses so far into the story.

    Most of us have yet to realize our purpose and when God puts events or people in our path for that purpose we don’t feel adequate or up to the task and try and push it off on another.

    However if God has anointed us to the purpose, we can only succeed and often are stunned and amazed that we did.

    However when we think we know best and step ahead of God, failure or disaster or the prolonging of our goals may be the outcome.

    There are several things that I take from Moses in assessing a relationship with God. Foremost, though it was Moses who went in search of what drew his attention on the mountain, it was God who did the drawing. God is calling all of us. We are not solitary sojourners.

    I have to leave off for tonight and hope I can pick this up where I’ve left off tomorrow.


  11. armando1961 says:

    Good Monday to all and God’s blessings to all. However you slice it, I think it’s clear that for us Christians –of whatever stripe or denomination– Jesus of Nazareth is the end-all and be-all that ties together, fulfills and ultimately gives meaning to the promises, prophecies and recorded deeds of the Old Testament and the O.T. prophets, Moses and Joshua included. That being said, I can only agree with those who have written that God has a plan for everyone and everything and that everyone and everything ties together with that plan and somehow fits in with that plan. Finally, and to add my own particular twist to scriptural interpretation –which I take full credit and responsibility for– I know my Bible full well, both the Old and New Testaments, and I know what the biblical tradition –both Jewish and Christian– is concerning Moses and God’s reasons not to allow him to enter the Promised Land. However, I cannot help thinking that there’s more than meets the eye concerning the stated reason for God’s decision not to allow Moses that privilege: maybe I’m reading too much into it or maybe I look too much at the Bible as both literature and revelation, but a God –and some rabbinical scholars have also pondered the point– that would deny a great prophet and lawgiver such as Moses the right –richly deserved and well earned many times over in my view– to enter the Promised Land simply because he hit a rock with his staff to draw water rather than merely speaking to the rock strikes me as an arbitrary and fickle God that bases his decisions on trivial and seemingly unimportant details. God is Supreme and in control of everything there was, is and will be and God acts according to Divine Will and is accountable to no one but God and really does not need to explain anything to anyone, but some of the reasons postulated in the Bible to “explain” certain things simply strike me as inconsistent with a majestic God whose decisions are rooted in divine justice, all-encompassing wisdom and overflowing mercy and compassion.

  12. poohpity says:

    armando, it seems to be what Moses believed that God was concerned about which effected the actions Moses took. Num 20:12 When a parent corrects a child it does not mean there is a lack of love, compassion, justice or mercy. So how do we pick and chose what parts of the bible to believe in and which not to? If we trust God then any actions He takes there must be a very good reason for doing so in the grand scheme of things. Moses did not get cast away from God since he was seen at the transfiguration and it was even God who was with Moses at his death to bury him which no other person witnessed. Moses was angry at the people of Israel for rebellion and that is exactly what Moses did when he did not believe in what God had said.

  13. poohpity says:

    Isn’t 120 years old a very good long life and then Moses went to be with the Lord in heaven. So wasn’t it all good. It does not for me detract anything about how wonderful our God is.

  14. joycemb says:

    Armando I’m thinking that because God demanded obedience in His prophets and leaders He HAD to say no to Moses when Moses disobeyed God’s instruction. I sometimes forget that this great cloud of witnesses described in Heb. 11 were human, just like you and I. Yet, as Pooh pointed out Moses did not lose out on his place in glory. So much hinged on the obedience of His chosen leaders, all the way up to Christ’s obedience in dying on a cross.

    I agree the Bible contains beautiful literature, prophecy and poetry with deep meanings yet all told by the very breath of God through His people. His creation. Telling an amazing story of God’s grace toward His people, the ones called by His name to obedience and mercy.

  15. SFDBWV says:

    Have any of you ever been thrust into the care of another? I personally have on several fronts, my entire life.

    I have often thought of the similarities of my own situation and that of Moses, certainly not in the same magnitude or goal, but as being ask here, in character or spirit.

    I would suppose that if Moses could have had his way he would have been happy living out his days as an Egyptian prince, as I would suppose his adopted mother would have preferred. But his youthful idealism, enthusiasm and recklessness placed him on a pathway of no return.

    That Moses was forever changed once he encountered the Burning Bush; clearly the Jewish Priests were stung to fury many years later when Jesus of Nazareth laid claim to being the Great I Am of that same Burning Bush.

    In obedience to God Moses was now on a course that few of us would ever choose for ourselves.

    Like Moses once we encounter Him and pick up our cross or purpose to bear, we are also on a course God has chosen for us and our lives, like Moses our lives no longer belong to us, but belong to His purpose.

    Is it going to be smooth sailing from there on out? Not if we look at the example of Moses. His character like ours will often rise up and get in the way. Sometimes God will chastise us to keep us on course. In the case of the events of Exodus that punishment exacted upon the people for their disobedience was very stern and Moses hurt more for those in his charge then he ever did for himself, offering his own life for theirs.

    Have any of you ever loved someone you would have given your life for? I believe so, I know I have and do.

    Here in this way I can also relate to Moses.

    While in the wilderness God provided for their every need, they were never abandoned by God. Here in our wilderness is it not the same?

    God had a use for Moses from point A to point B and God provided all Moses needed in order to accomplish God’s purpose, including the health Moses would need in order to do so.

    I dare say God has provided us with the health we need in order to be exactly where He wants us to be, once again in order to achieve His goals through us. Just like God would later say when Paul ask God to remove Paul’s thorn and God did not “My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.”

    So how is the relationship of Moses helping to point others to Jesus for me? By walking in the pathway God has ordained for me, acknowledging God and Jesus to be leading the way, preparing the way and at the beginning and end of my journey.

    By being in obedience.

    By having that same glow of the glory of the Lord shine from my being when necessary for others to see it.

    All provided for by God


  16. poohpity says:

    Moses not only presented the laws of God to the people who said they would obey them but also gave a whole section on the sacrifices needed when those laws were broken. By his covert implications and meanings even how the Temple itself represented the one to come that would fulfill all; the law; sacrifices; duties of the priesthood; articles in the Temple.

    Then covertly Joshua leading Israel from their old life of captivity to the freedom of new life in possession of promises which is also a foretaste of Jesus.

    Then we come to the overt Jesus who took all the covert action of Moses and Joshua in God taking on human flesh to say all that had meaning and this is what was meant by it as Jesus taught. The living water that flowed from the Rock who was also the Bread from heaven.

    The distractions and diversions come as people want to take away from shinning Glory on the Lord and shinning the light on themselves like the religious leaders did. To detour folks from God’s Word and all it teaches us about the Lord we worship. Even the world we live in tries to get our focus off of God and many times it works but like Joshua guided Israel to get rid of the things that would take their eyes off God and clear the old out to make room for the new. Jesus shows us that it is in His strength that can be done when we try often we will fail but our Rock will not be moved as we allow that living water to flow through us to wash away in a cleaning manner replacing the old with the new.

  17. joycemb says:

    I really don’t have anything to add to today’s thoughts but wanted to say I have enjoyed reading both of your perspectives, Pooh and Steve. Thank you!

  18. joycemb says:

    Oh I guess one thing does come to mind. Steve your question about being thrust into the role of caregiver makes me smile. I smile because I was ‘trained’ early on to become a caregiver, not in a healthy way but as being a co-dependent caretaker of abusers. My struggle throughout life has been to say ‘no’ to needy/abusive people. I have often wished God would give me someone to take care of, because for me it’s easy. But it’s my flesh. You, however, have been given work by God which as you have said has taught you patience and I’m sure many other things.

    What I learn from our personal journeys’ is that God works in mysterious ways, always to accomplish His purposes. I trust He is working in my life the same way. God is always at work in us, as long as we have faith as Moses had. Numbers 11:27 NLT.

    A favorite scripture lately is Eph. 3:20 NLT

    blessings, Joyce

  19. joycemb says:

    Oops I meant to say Hebrews 11:27 NLT not Numbers.

  20. SFDBWV says:

    Erick Von Daniken in the 70’s wrote a series of popular books about God being an alien from outside earth that produced people into the world and this “Ancient Astronaut” is who talked with Moses and introduced the law. Erick went on to use this premise as to why so many of the early stages of enforcing the law were so brutal.

    The History Channel still carries the concept on its programing because of the following the idea has.

    It is always interesting to me how people just don’t like hearing the truth.

    It is difficult for most of us to relate a sacrificial loving God as explained and witnessed by Jesus as the same God who had Moses enforce the law to a point of stoning people to death for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.

    Or for inflicting death on thousands of Israelites each time there was an infraction of the law in the “camp”.

    Or for ordering the genocidal killing of “nations” as the Hebrew people were ordered to do as they “took” the Promised Land from those who already lived there.

    But we as Christians know that the God of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and Joshua is the same God who hung on Calvary’s cross.

    I have been looking at Moses and as some have wondered why God did not allow him to enter into the Promised Land, only view it before Moses’ death and burial.

    Any explanation from anyone is going to be conjecture, what I will say is that God does what God does and we are not to judge it, only accept it. Not so much out of fear as in *trust*, trusting that God is far above our ability to understand and we sometimes just have to trust that God knows best.

    This is especially difficult to do in the midst of pain and suffering and under the weight of a broken heart.

    Out of respect for Mart and his desire for us to discuss amongst ourselves his topic I will attempt to continue on with Joshua when I return to the site, but for now I have much to do and am very tired as well.

    Joyce I just wanted to say that my views and connection to Moses as I have earlier referred to is not based solely upon my care of my son. I have also been a son and husband the Mayor of my little town since I was 25 years old, the president of my local chapter of the United Mine Workers Union, the chairman of its safety committee and chairman of its mine committee. It seems to me that I have had a lifetime of being in service to and responsible for others. That is what I was referring to and why I understand to a degree the weight and responsibilities Moses must have as well.


  21. foreverblessed says:

    (I posted a comment in the former topic, the sun and moon were still on my mind)
    While posting in the former topic, I had the sun and moon still on my mind, and what the sign they give mean to me, and to the whole world,
    Suddenly the thought came into my mind:

    You have to leave Moses behind, and let Jesus lead you into the promised land.

    If Moses stands for the law, and Joshua stands for Jesus, then the picture is clear, of course, That is what I have to do, and I had to learn that 15 years ago, leaving all the old testament commandment keeping behind.
    Gal 3:19,23 Rom 7:4,8:2
    Live in faith in Jesus Christ, let Him change my heart.

    How do I lead another in the way of Christ, if he would be a thief, would I then lead him to Moses:
    the 8th commandment: you shall not steal?
    Or would I lead him to Christ, and ask him, what is it in you heart that makes you steal. Let Jesus change your heart.

    Leave Moses behind, and let Joshua lead you into the promised land.

  22. foreverblessed says:

    Pooh, I guess that that was what you were saying Oct 14, 11:29 am. Just adding that thought that came up.
    Joyce, I am sooo happy to read your comments again. Keep it up girl! Have your eyes fixed on Jesus!
    just as I have to learn that, and not be discouraged by what others say, I learn it with falling and standing up again. We have to pray for one another!
    It is the sword of the Spirit making God’s Word reality in a little part of our lives, one by one.

  23. foreverblessed says:

    I am asking God: If we have to leave Moses behind, do we also have to leave Elijah behind?
    As Moses stands for the Law, and Elijah for the prophets, Matt 11:13, Luke 16:16
    and now follow Christ, He leads us into the promised land

  24. poohpity says:

    Have you ever been around a person or child that has never been taught rules for living with no boundaries or not disciplined? They are usually self centered throwing tantrums not ever caring who they harm and if the parent does not teach them they carry that all through their lives and no one wants to be around them. Rules were given to prevent harm to others, self or our relationship with God. The sum of all the rules were summed up as loving God first then loving others as He has loved us and treat them as we want to be treated. That is the spirit of the whole law and what the prophets were teaching. (Gal 5:14; Matt 7:12 NIV; Matt 22:37-40 NIV)

    The religious leaders did not expect those to be fulfilled the way they were in Jesus. They seemed to be so concerned with having people looking to them they missed the Spirit of what everything was about that they were taught (1 Cor 10:11).

    One can look at everything in the OT as God being a harsh task master rather than a loving God who only wanted what was best for the people He created. If left to their own and not disciplined brats are developed rather than being a light and bringing others in to know God they became poison ivy keeping people away.

  25. SFDBWV says:

    Joshua certainly is one of my favorite Biblical characters, for many reasons, but it begins with the fact that Joshua did what many people today won’t. He was a team player and remained under the authority of God’s anointed.

    He knew God had chosen Moses and he followed Moses’ orders and instructions to the letter without carping, complaining, or trying to interfere.

    God had a purpose for Joshua as well and while under the tutelage of Moses Joshua grew into the Man God would use when the time was right.

    Over the doorway that goes from my kitchen into my dining room is a placard with part of Joshua’s speech that reads “As for me and my house we will serve the Lord” (Joshua 24:15).

    This is my desire and goal for me and my house.

    Joshua was a military commander as well as leader to his people, but for me what stands out the most about him is that he obeyed God. He had been a living witness to the exodus from Egypt and the wanderings in the wilderness. He had seen firsthand the abilities of God as well as the results of disobedience.

    He was not only still alive, but in command of the nation of Israel because he believed God.

    What an example for me today is the life of Joshua. Nothing could be more simple; though in the wilderness look forward to the promise, though at war expect victory, because if God be with you, what or who can stand against you.

    Much later another of Joshua’s countrymen would write this piece of wisdom that sums up Joshua’s life; “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths.” (Proverbs 3:5, 6)


  26. street says:

    One can look at everything in the OT as God being a harsh task master rather than a loving God who only wanted what was best for the people He created. If left to their own and not disciplined brats are developed rather than being a light and bringing others in to know God they became poison ivy keeping people away.

    without question you are right about people getting the wrong idea about the actions and purposes of God. it is distorted and convoluted because of sin that He warns us about. it like a cancer. i can see why His children are a new creation, you can’t fix evil, it has to die. new life is the only alternative that will permit the purposes and plan of God. when coupled with His Love and Moral Wisdom the future is very very bright indeed.

  27. street says:

    Dear Mart De Haan,
    in reference to the previous post about the law, what is your take on running the race, Paul’s used of describing the Christian life according to the rules. what is different from the Old Testament and the New testament in regards to law? i think it is still in effect except the sacrificial system that was done away with. the temple has been gone a couple of thousand years. living sacrifices comes to mind. and the wilderness is still being littered with dead bodies. so i think the law of sin and death is still in effect. thinking of an intimate relationship based on faith hope and love. i really don’t think there is much difference. any ideas that would help?

  28. street says:

    i remember in Romans the law is in effect as a tutor till there is maturity. when maturity comes don’t we uphold the Royal Law by the Spirit as opposed to the letter? just thinking again.

  29. street says:

    looks like a personal blog….sorry

  30. street says:

    what can we learn from the relationship of Moses, Joshua, and Jesus that can help us lead— rather than distract and divert— others to the water giving Rock…not yet found?
    2 Samuel 9:4
    I think one of the answers is humility. He mentions it on more than one occasion.

  31. foreverblessed says:

    Pooh, that you did find that old article on Grace!
    Street, read that article!
    And do not worry, just go on with law keeping as you did. Grace is no free way to brake the law.
    But I presume that you have told Jesus,
    Lord You are now Master of my Heart, You are now the Ruler of my life,
    then be surprised that Jesus will come one day, and take hold of your life, not to invade it, but to cleanse it totally, and very very deep, so that in the deepest paths there will be cleanness. We will be a new person, the old has gone,
    that is what Paul says: the old man has died.
    And we now live in the new man, given eternal life that is from Jesus Christ, His Risen life, imparted to us by the Holy Spirit, and that is a Spirit of Love.
    For God is Love,
    As you said, when we are mature then the law has no more need to lead us.
    When we are a new man, when we hear the Spirit speak to us, very softly, and very personally, then God is giving His Word to us personally, and that goes sooo much deeper then keeping of the law ever could, as given in the 10 commandments, and all the extra laws of the Old Testament.
    If we keep these laws of the Old Testament, we are OK, but we are as the Gospel say: the least in the Kingdom of God.
    God needs a much more deeper personal relation with us, that goes beyond keeping of the laws.

    So the thing is, are we led by Moses, the laws of the Old Testament,
    or are we led by Joshua, that is by Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit, in a very personal way that He talks to us?

  32. foreverblessed says:

    I often think of being led by the Spirit instead of being led by the laws, is like learning to swim.
    When I started to learn to swim, I was given a plank that I had to take hold of, that would keep me afloat, and with my legs I had to learn the movement of swimming. I do remember that all other children in my class could go on to the next stage:
    learning to swim without the plank! But I wasn’t allowed, I had to keep floating with the board.

    But then comes a time to put the board aside, now in the water without the board: That is what it is, letting go of the law abiding way of life, and then you may think: I drown, I will sin, when I leave Moses behind,
    but lo and behold, you are swimming! You are not drowning, you are not sinning, because the Love of Christ has grown so great in you, that even the desire to sin is fading away, as long as we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus.

    Even Moses himself said: when the Messiah comes, you listen to Him Deut 18:15,18
    That Prophet is Jesus,
    and Jesus said: John 16:7-18,13,15
    Jesus will talk to us through the Holy Spirit,
    and that is a higher (or rather deeper) spiritual level, then just keeping the 10 commandments and all the other laws of the old Testament.

  33. SFDBWV says:

    “; and Jesus who in the end personifies and gives us fullness of meaning to the earlier two.” (Mart De Haan)

    Jesus was there at the “burning bush” when Moses was called into service.

    Moses would later strike the rock to give water in the desert; later the followers of Moses would strike the “Rock” who offered living water to the world.

    Joshua would conquer the Promised Land because he was anointed to do so and Joshua carried out the will of God and so accomplished his “mission”.

    Jesus offers us eternal living water and the peaceful resting place of the Promised Kingdom, because He conquered all the evil of this world from the fall at the foundation of creation; and carried out His mission.

    Jesus brings us out of our circumstances and both leads us through our own wildernesses and enables us to conquer our slavery to sin, as a person, as a people, as a nation.

    Moses and Joshua’s lives being living pictures of what later Jesus would do for us all.


  34. joycemb says:

    Prayer has been on my mind a lot lately. Thinking of all the turmoil happening in the world, I think it is important we pray for our leaders. Even our leader Jesus asked for prayer. Our earthly leaders need our prayers as well. I Timothy 2:1-3 applies today as well as it did in Nero’s time.

    Blessings through Christ Jesus to all,

  35. street says:

    why did God keep moses from going into the promised land?
    God did give some reasons for us to think about, but you can boil it down to this, God is LORD, Ruler, KING of kings, LORD of lords, DAD. I am glad DAD says no a lot to me because i would be so evil no one, including myself, could stand my wretched self. His yes and no’s are made for establishing and maintaining relationships.
    Psalm 138:1

    2 Corinthians 2:13-15

  36. SFDBWV says:

    Joyce do you think the Ebola situation, the rising of ISIS and the economic instability of the world are signs of the times or are these things which have always been around, just getting more press attention and hype?


  37. joycemb says:

    Steve I do think they have always been around, but we are still told to pray for our governmental leaders, not to criticize or judge them, but to pray. And even more so as we have so much more information so we are without excuse. Paul taught that as Christians we are not of the world, but in it. And by praying for our leaders the goal is that we as Christians can live a ‘peaceful, godly, quiet and dignified life’.

  38. SFDBWV says:

    Joyce there is a marvelous song sung by John McDermott titled “Christmas in the Trenches”. It is about Christmas Eve in the trenches of WWI when a German soldier began to sing and everyone on both sides of the war took time out to sing together, exchange photographs and share what little they had with each other. As is with so many Irish songs though it ends sadly with the morning and return to killing one another.

    I have a passion for Civil War history, especially living where I do and have both movies “Gettysburg and “God’s and Generals”. Both sides of the opposing armies were prayerful Christian people and believed in their “cause” enough to die for them. General Lee and Stonewall Jackson were both devout Christian gentlemen and prayed continually.

    Adolf Hitler accused the Jew of crucifying “our” Lord in his speeches to the German public; I wonder how many Germans prayed for Him?

    When Matthew wrecked his car and was in the hospital those first few days the local Postmaster here in our little town ask the newly placed Pastor of the United Methodist Church to pray for his healing.

    She refused saying that she couldn’t because she didn’t know God’s will in the matter.

    She didn’t stay around here very long.

    When the anti-christ comes to a political power would you pray for him? What would you ask of God concerning him?

    I read a theological look at Paul’s writings many years ago and one of the views presented then was that Paul was under Roman guard and much of what he wrote was slanted to seem favorable to Roman rule and not to be seen as revolutionary.

    Don’t take my comments to you as argumentative, they are not. I merely am trying to explain that there is a great deal of thought that goes into praying and especially for leaders we may feel God has placed there in their position, whether favorable or not to Christian views.

    And of course trying to actually have a conversation with you regarding your comments in a polite and cordial manner.

    Just for the technical understanding of the matter, I always pray for God’s will to be done even over my own desires, and so no less for leaders on the world scene.

    I miss hearing from Cheryl. If you are reading this, know that Matt and I pray for your full and total healing every night at prayer time.


  39. joycemb says:

    Steve I’m not reading you as argumentative at all. There are many writers and slants/ideas as far as how to pray and I myself being a reader love this kind of stuff. When I don’t know what to do and common sense seems skewed I just look at scripture and if I see a principal that flows throughout scripture I go with it!

    A favorite writer, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, while in prison is reported to have been plotting to kill Hitler before he was executed. Then I believe it was a few short months later the war ended.

    I don’t judge him at all for what is reported he was doing, as, we never know the lengths we will be pushed to in seeing our fellow countrymen destroy another race, or our own family even.

    Saying that, and not having walked in those shoes or others I only have scripture to go by, and that’s how I interpret it.

    Yes, I too pray God’s will be done which is the best of course. We are so finite in our understanding of things. When Jesus was headed to the cross would I have said, Thy will be done? Nope. I would have cried out for mercy as Jesus did.

    It’s all good. Thanks Steve. I too hope your friend Cheryl is doing well.

  40. street says:

    I think it would be hard to lead anyone to the Lord if one does not follow after Him themselves. The use of distraction and diversion seems to be used to guide away not to.

    i remember paul rejoicing in men preaching the good news from less than godly motives. he was grateful the message was proclaimed to the world, because he like johna knew God and what He could do with so little.

  41. joycemb says:

    Street that was beautiful! Thank you.

  42. SFDBWV says:

    Yes Joyce I too am familiar with the Bonhoeffer story. I have also read of various examples of families who hid Jews during the holocaust; all Christian people who put their lives on the line to do the right thing.

    Sadly we and our allies bombed good and bad alike.

    We have (sort of) been talking of Moses. Pharaoh was supreme ruler of all Egypt. God used an earlier Pharaoh to save Jacob’s family and placed the Hebrew people there. When This Pharaoh wanted to “let His people go” it was God who hardened Pharaoh’s heart.

    In light of the events of Ebola in the news and so many others, not to mention our other topic “Blood Moon”, it makes most of us wonder if these are God led events heralding the opening last chapter of our life on earth or just things going on as usual.

    It was the people who rejected God for a king, interesting to note that God’s first choice got replaced, by God, for disobedience.

    Do we really believe that our electoral process here in the United States is manipulated by God every election, and that every president we have has been placed there by God in order to exact His will, or fail?

    I had a little time this afternoon for this and I appreciate your taking the time to chat. I won’t be able to return now again until tomorrow morning.

    Thanks again for your time.


  43. SFDBWV says:

    yes street we are to be living examples of Christ on earth and so a light for others to see and follow after. Remember Psalms 119:105.


  44. street says:

    i know jushua was a great victor for israel and God told him no man would be able to stand before him, Joshua1:5. then came along the gibeonites. commonsense, habit,and worldly wisdom is great folly. this lead israel and us into this great folly. without question israel is to be a blessing to the nations, but the sin of man needs to be addressed. it can not be addressed apart from God, how can we think we can live our daily lives apart from Him in the simplest things? dear children keep yourselves from idols.

    is godliness without contentment and oxymoron?

  45. poohpity says:

    Steve aren’t we to point others to follow Jesus not us?

  46. SFDBWV says:

    Of course Deb, the light that shines from us *should* be the light of God as aforementioned in Psalms 119:105.

    I am sorry you didn’t understand.


  47. poohpity says:

    That passage is speaking of the Lord’s light on our path not our light for others to follow. I did understand what you said just felt we need to lead others to Jesus not us.

  48. poohpity says:

    Sort of like guiding people to follow the reflection of light rather than to the source of light.

  49. foreverblessed says:

    This was in God at eventide, Jesus talking to the two listeners, on October 21, I though it was appropriate for the theme: let Joshua, and not Moses, lead you into the Promised land
    Absorb Good
    The only way to eradicate evil is to absorb good. This is My story of the seven other spirits.
    This story was to illustrate the vast difference between the Mosaic Law and My Law. The Pharisees and the Elder Brother were the observers of the Mosaic Law.
    You have proved this in your own life. To pray that you may resist temptation and conquer evil is in itself but useless.
    Evil cannot live in My Presence. Live with Me. Absorb My Life, and evil will remain without.

    The story of the seven spirits is in Matt 12:43-45, the house swept clean: that is by following the Mosaic laws, the life is in order, but it is empty, says verse 44. Under the Guidance of Jesus, it would have been filled with Love, as Jesus is God, and God is love, and the place would be occupied.
    Live with Jesus, be filled with His Life, and evil has to recede!

  50. street says:

    what can we learn from the relationship of Moses, Joshua, and Jesus that can help us lead— rather than distract and divert— others to the water giving Rock…not yet found?

    humility truth love and a savior.

    faith hope love and a savior.

    dependence as opposed to independence.

    understanding God’s Word and it’s application.

  51. street says:

    maybe the question is being asked wrong? i am thinking of following paul who followed Jesus. his arguments for living and the way to live where good enough for God to record in the Scriptures. not that they came from paul but a work of God.

  52. street says:

    Moses, Joshua and Jesus
    been thinking non of them received the promise in the present. some could even view Jesus death as a failure till you confront them with the resurrection. even after the resurrection you have to go back to see what He said about it. He only left us His Word to hold on to, nothing else. what a bumpy ride it is!

  53. poohpity says:

    street, Jesus death was not a failure in any way it was the purpose. If you choose to follow Paul then there will be no guarantee of the Holy Spirit which only comes from belief in Jesus. Paul would have never wanted anyone to follow him ( 1 Cor 1:13 NIV; 1 Cor 1:15 NIV) Jesus left us with something that holds on to us the Spirit, the Spirit of God. Allowing that Spirit to hold on to us the ride is not so bumpy.

  54. street says:

    oh i forgot he left us His Holy Spirit so we would not be orphans.

  55. street says:

    mart said, “The question I’d like for us to think through together is—as we now, 2000 years later walk plod through our own wilderness toward a yet unfulfilled Promise—what can we learn from the relationship of Moses, Joshua, and Jesus that can help us lead— rather than distract and divert— others to the water giving Rock…not yet found?”


    if you love Me, Jesus speaking, you will keep My Commandments.

  56. poohpity says:

    Weren’t His commands to believe in Jesus and to love others.(John 6:20; 1 John 3:23)

  57. poohpity says:

    oops that was John 6:29

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