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Behind and Beyond the Veil


Flickr Photo by David Campbell

Still between Passover and Pentecost, 2015, I’ve spent some time recently in Paul’s 2nd letter to the Corinthians. In chapter 3 he compares and contrasts the glory of the law with the greater glory of the Spirit.

A present significance for us is that, as observant Jewish people celebrate the giving of the law on Pentecost (Shavuot or Festival of weeks), followers of Christ celebrate the giving of the Spirit on the same day.

P1020963_edited-1Many of us are familiar with the backstory. Soon after receiving the Law, the chosen people of God thought they had lost Moses somewhere on the top of Sinai. Suspecting they had been abandoned, they decided to fend for themselves by making a golden likeness that they knew from their many years in Egypt (Exo 32). When Moses finally came down the mountain and saw them worshiping a throwback to the gods of Egypt, he threw the tablets of law on the ground, and ground up the golden idol (Exo 33). An ugly scene followed, when 3000 died at the hands of priests who, at Moses’ command killed their brothers, to show allegiance to Moses and his God.

Looking back, the Apostle Paul found an explanation for such tragic events in the story of a veil that hid the fading glory of the law, (Exo 34:27-35). The letter of the law kills while the enabling gift of the Spirit gives life (2 Cor 3:5-6), .

Today we can see even more clearly the contrast Paul developed. The glory of the law reflects the goodness of God. (Exo 33:18-23). But the giving and glory of the Spirit reflects a far greater expression of God’s heart, goodness, and glory  (2Cor 3:7-11).

Turns out that this is the explanation for the veil Moses used  to cover his face (Exo 34:27-35)… not so that a frightened people would be willing to come near to him as he taught the law, but so that they would not see  (that because of the weakness of their own inclinations) the glory of the law was already fading away.

Could it be that, in the flesh, we have a hard time giving up our love affair with the glory of moral law (the residual effects of which are still killing us), and keep forgetting the greater glory of the Spirit that makes living by the law obsolete (Gal 5:22-23).

Hope we can take the days leading up to Pentecost 2015 celebrating something far greater than a fading glory.

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104 Responses to “Behind and Beyond the Veil”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    The story of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob in Genesis then followed by Exodus-Leviticus-Numbers and Deuteronomy define who the Jewish people are.

    They are a people because of the action and interaction of God by His design and for His purpose.

    For the Orthodox Jew the Law is not only an ordinance for life but who they are.

    No small wonder their leaders two thousand years ago had Jesus of Nazareth killed by Roman rulers.

    Jesus illuminated the intent and purpose of the Law away from punishment towards forgiveness and tolerance.

    In the inception of the people Israel there was little or no room for tolerance in violation of the law.

    It is clear that Christian’s recognize who God is because of these first 5 Books of the Bible and clearer still that Christians are followers of Jesus of Nazareth whom we believe to be that same God, yet Jesus’ story separates the Christian from being an Orthodox Jew.

    With this one statement Jesus summed up the law and defined Christian behavior, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, this is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Matthew 22:37, 38, 39, 40)

    Why a Christian should think they are a new breed of un-orthodox Judaism escapes me, but many do.

    Wet and foggy in the mountains of West Virginia.


  2. saled says:

    Wow! New idea for me. The purpose of the veil was so that the people would not see that the glory of the law was fading away. There it is in black and white in Paul’s words in 2 Corinthians 3. All these years I thought the purpose of the veil was to protect the people from seeing God’s glory, which would be too much for them and they would die. Yes, this Pentecost let’s celebrate something far greater than a fading glory.

  3. tracey5tgbtg says:

    To quote from Mart’s words above: Could it be that, in the flesh, we have a hard time giving up our love affair with the glory of moral law (the residual effects of which are still killing us), and keep forgetting the greater glory of the Spirit that makes living by the law obsolete (Gal 5:22-23).

    Reading through 2 Corinthians, and Galatians, and then back to Romans, is uplifting for me. In the NIV translation Paul says in Gal 5:4-6 – You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

    Jesus said in John 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

    Thank you Lord for sending us your Holy Spirit.

    I must admit that I battle “my flesh” all the time. I want what I want. I want my own way. I want to be right and I want people to agree with me. It is a heavy and unfulfilling way of life.

    True peace comes from God alone. John 14:26-27 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

  4. remarutho says:

    Hello BTA Friends —

    At the end of the stretch of time you describe, Mart — Passover to Pentecost — comes the day Jesus ascended back to His heavenly Father.

    The question the disciples asked Him on that day, it seems to me, is typical of thinking more or less stuck in the “ton of bricks” school of legalism: “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6)

    Jesus gently and lovingly deflects that ancient question in order to give us a new frame for seeing the world and other people:

    “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (Acts 1:7-8)

    The question for us today is whether we share the good news of Jesus Christ in the format of being right, and being persuasive (as you point out Tracey) — or whether we simply let the love of Jesus Christ flow to others by the working of the Holy Spirit described in Gal 5:22-23 — where God’s glory cannot fade.

    Fading glory seems like left-overs to me. Jesus tore the veil from top to bottom as he gave up His life (Luke 23:44-45) From what Jesus told the disciples and us, He will see to the carrying out of the Law. It is not ours to execute.


  5. joycemb says:

    Mart this is such a good post, thank you. I too am enlightened by the words of Paul to the Corinthians as he explains that the glory that was talked about was the former/fading glory of the Law.

    It truly is the flesh that is continuously looking for justice. I asked God just yesterday, “Why do I care so much about justice, and how do I balance it with humility? How do You balance justice with humility. The answer it think lies in the ultimate justice; the cross. It is finished, the curtain was ripped in two. Christ rose from the dead. Humility allowed Him to be nailed there, not the Jews or the Romans. It was his humility.

    My flesh wants justice, revenge more often than now. The only way to get rid of this is to embrace that cross and it’s finished work. Again and again. As often as it takes. Daily, for sure. Like Paul said even, I die daily.

    Still learning, still putting the flesh down daily even in my ‘older’ age.

    I pray we will all find grace to put the old person down, again today, and to suck up the grace as we suck up the humility of being wrong, again.

  6. street says:

    been thinking
    talk about the hiddeness of God!? a complete member of the Godhead hidden in the Children of God walking in the wilderness. hopefully not as strangers, not fading, not ineffective, and certainly not silent.

    could it be we have a hard time giving up the old glory of man, which is fading away and a new man being renewed day by day into an eternal perfect man. God promised eternal life to those who receive Him, much like death to those who received a lie in the beginning.

  7. street says:

    mart said,”When Moses finally came down the mountain and saw them worshiping a throwback to the gods of Egypt, he threw the tablets of law on the ground, and ground up the golden idol (Exo 33). An ugly scene followed, when 3000 died at the hands of priests who, at Moses’ command killed their brothers, to show allegiance to Moses and his God.”

    waiting and trusting in God seems to be a problem. i see the same judgment on those in the future where Jesus commands those to be slain for not wanting Him to rule over them. if it were not for His Grace, Mercy, and unending Love we would be doomed. i am glad He can distinguish between the sheep and goats, i can not. there’s always a possibility for a goat to morph before He comes back.

  8. foreverblessed says:

    Pentecost, this subject makes my heart glad. Thank you all for your comments!
    Enjoyed them very much, You all got it, that the Holy Spirit was given to lead us into a new life, the old has gone.
    It makes my heart glad, very glad!
    I have mentioned it before here, that I was raised in a legalistic church, living under the law and not under grace. It was as Tracey said, hard to let go of the law, and to live under grace.
    We used the Holy Spirit to help us fulfil the law.
    Living under grace was a thing that I was wandering about….
    How can you let go of the law, and live under grace, and not sin?
    That’s why I am Mart thankful for this post: The Holy Spirit!
    The law was given on Pentecost, now the Holy Spirit is given on Pentecost!

    The book : The Two Covenants by Andrew Murray explains it very well

    The Law was good, it had a good purpose, the lead us to Christ. Whatever set of rules, we cannot keep them. The law makes us hopeless, whatever we try, however much rules there are, we fail!

    Totally whiped out, and in despair, we throw ourselves at Jesus feet, and say: I fail, help me.

    And there it is where we should be! The law has done its job, now we are at Jesus’ feet, and totally humbled, and surrendered to Him. Gal 4:24-25

    Now we are under the Law of the Spirit, Gal 5:16

    Anyway, when I say: I do not live under the law, but under Grace, with christians they look shocked. But it is written in the bible, the law is not made for good man, but for lawbreakers, the sinful, the ungodly 1 Tim 1:8-11
    But I can live under the glorious gospel of the blessed God.

    If we are christians, and we as a guide follow the law, the ten commandments, we are not doomed, we are only the least in the kingdom of God.
    Matt 11:11-14

    Here it is also written that the law and the prophets were until John, Matt 11:14
    End of the time of the law and the prophets.

    If we ask the question, can we sin now?
    Then our hearts have not been changed and we are still under the law, we are still in the old era, the new has not yet come.

    But for those who have accepted that whatever they try themselves, and know deep down that we fail ourselves, and have accepted Jesus as Lord of our hearts, and lives, for those a new day has been dawning; The New Covenant!

  9. foreverblessed says:

    the verse in Gal 4 should have been Gal 3:24-25
    Although the verse in Gal 4:24-31 is also very good for explaining the two covenants; Hagar is living under the law, that is Mount Sinai,
    on Pentecost the Law was given on mount Sinai by Moses. Gal 4:24-25
    But we are children of the promise, by Sarah, (Sarah is not mentioned in these verses, while Hagar is) our mother is Jerusalem from above, which Sarah represented.
    But what does the scripture say: get rid of the slave woman and her son. v30

    So here I am, who is my guide in life, it was the ten commandments, and some more rules, but now it is Jesus Himself, and in faith I follow, and God gives the Spirit of His Son, to live in me

    I was so thankful for the comment last week that gave My Utmost for His Highest of May 13:

    “God’s commands to us are actually given to the life of His Son in us. Consequently, to our human nature in which God’s Son has been formed (see Galatians 4:19), His commands are difficult. But they become divinely easy once we obey.”

    And with God’s commands is meant the Law Of Jesus,
    His words.
    Even in the Torah, Moses gave the law, but it is added
    When the Prophet comes you must listen to Him
    Deut 18:15,18
    And I was so conservative, to go back to the Torah,. and look up all the rules, and statutes, and laws, and tried to follow them.
    While I should have given my time in studying Jesus, and His life, and His words, the beautitudes, Matt 5:1-12 Matt 5,6,7

    These commands o f Jesus,are impossible to keep, but they are aimed at the life of Christ in us!
    thanks for the tip!

  10. SFDBWV says:

    What is the circumstance of your life that may cause you to seek God?

    Where then do you place your *hope*?

    Will the law save you or condemn you?

    Is your heart broken by some circumstance in your life? If so how is the law going to mend your broken heart?

    It isn’t.

    But there is hope found in Jesus of Nazareth who rose from the dead to show us He is in control and even in death there remains *hope*.

    With the renewing of our spirits and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit the need for the law diminishes as we no longer need the threat of the law, rather our desire is to do what is right in the sight of the Lord instinctively.

    If someone comes to you and asks for help, do you tell him why he needs help or do you just help him?

    For me the greater benefit of believing in Jesus as Lord of all things isn’t in being obedient to not sin or recognize the sin in others, as both will occur as a recourse of living, but rather that no matter what situation I may find myself in life there is hope for rescue from my Lord and my God through and by Jesus of Nazareth the Christ.

    Sometimes in the din of the world amidst the trials and struggles of life the only thing I can do is close my eyes to it and hold tightly to the garment of Jesus and not let go.

    He is my hope not the law.


  11. oneg2dblu says:

    I was tripped up a little for reading the comments before I read the intro. I could not be sure which veil we were speaking off, for one veil was there to separate us from a Holy God, and when it was torn from top to bottom, it gave us all direct access to God.
    The other veil was first placed as to not blind the people, because the light was too great for them, at that time being that they chose to live in darkness, and were used to living in it.
    You see, to me, they had not yet received or been confronted by the Law, which reflects God’s impossible light, as it has no room for any darkness in it, for it is light to all those who already lived by it, but a curse for those who fail to live by it today unless they live only through a Relationship with Christ instead.
    One veil prevented entry or exposure to a Feared God, one not yet personal, and the other veil prevented over-exposure to the very light that now blinds the rest of the world, those who chose ignore both the letter of the law, and the Light that New Law of Relationship imparts.

    My hope is in Following Christ, who will not drag us reluctantly into obeying the law, or will He offend others by our being obedient to Him, and the law, at the same time.

    To me, there is no darkness found within the law for it reflects the words given by God, and written by the very Finger of God, and where there is that much light given, certainly a veil must applied for all the old darkness lovers, which prefer to live in darkness rather than be exposed to lights revealing power, as it either blinds us, or gives us light to overcome, as it provides both, a Lamp to our Feet, and a Light to our Path.

    Psalm 119:105

    Be Blessed, Gary

  12. street says:

    forever Thank You for your post, you spoke well. looking forward to the day when all speak well, all the time. God bless all His Children with His presents in every circumstance forever.

  13. remarutho says:

    Dear BTA Friends —

    The Apostle Paul, though he did not meet Jesus in the flesh, understood very well the analogy between the

    1) veiled face of Moses the Law-giver and

    2) the curtain that covered the holy of holies in the temple (or the place of the Torah in the synagogue).

    Paul wrote:

    “But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

    Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.”

    It does me good to read the Scripture Mart references. My apologies to those who actually read the 2 Cor passage!


  14. remarutho says:

    We wear no veil because Messiah fulfills completely the promise that God is with us. The tabernacle and the temple are no more. Emmanuel is in the midst of those who have faith in Him!

    What good news!

  15. poohpity says:

    “Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? Have you experienced so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?

    I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.

    But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”

    But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing.

    Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham.

    Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises? Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.

    Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.

    Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.

    For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes. There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.”

    Galatians 3

  16. oneg2dblu says:

    I wonder what is the veil that separates the world from God accessing today?
    Is it not Unbelief?
    Would the world suffer more or less by being exposed to the Ten Commandments today, or by being exposed to Prayer in the schools today, or hearing any of the rest of the Word of God in the public arena today?
    Yet, we worry more about offending another by subjecting their current unbelief to the seeing or hearing of the truth?
    Who’s side are we one anyhow?
    Are we not hiding behind a veil called, “political correctness,” when we silence ourselves and hide away much more than the posting of the Ten Commandments?

  17. oneg2dblu says:

    Ooops…I meant from accessing God today. :o

  18. joycemb says:

    If the world sees Christ hanging on a cross would that not be more compelling than seeing posters of the 10 commandments everywhere? Maybe if a disclaimer was added reminding that the 10 were given to point the world to the cross; and to the Savior who gave His life for all. That would be the Way of accessing God today, I believe.

  19. street says:

    gary our flesh sometimes is mentioned as a veil.
    Christ is revealed when we speak and act correctly.
    the opposite is true too. it is easy for a Christian to act like a sinner, but it is impossible for a sinner to act the other way. it’s sometimes hard to tell them apart, but it does make life more interesting.

  20. street says:

    posting the ten is treating a symptom much like other efforts. hope our lives are such a contrast people will stop us in our tracks and ask us, ” what gives?”

  21. street says:

    the picture of the dove reminds me of an albino humming bird….it was absolutely stunning.

  22. oneg2dblu says:

    I guess I was thinking, If they were good enough for God to post them in stone, and teach them to His Chosen, tell them to place them on their door posts, write them in our hearts and minds, and teach them to their children, they should be good enough for us today
    Maybe a more worldly, or advanced and less offensive version of the word that veils them completely, makes the hidden, or takes them down, or just leaves them out, would better serve this world we live in.
    I doubt it though, as today in this darkening world there are Houses of Worship with their Crosses of Christ that are being taken down by unbelievers and destroyed as I post.

  23. joycemb says:

    It greatly saddens me also that in many churches today the cross has been replaced with lights, music, and microphones. (Just my personal pet peeve) But I was just thinking, maybe the undressing so to speak of the the cultural icons is Gods doing after all? Maybe what He’s looking for are a people who are not ashamed of the gospel, in their everyday lives and not just on Sunday, to live for Christ? The very hiddenness that Paul talks about our lives as being in Christ? Just thinking…

  24. poohpity says:

    The ten commandments are wonderful and being able to keep them can only be done in the flesh and with that comes failure. Because no one has ever been able to follow them completely then what happens? What happens when we break them? God also along with those engraved stones gave a temporary sacrificial system to atone for those failures so we could stay in fellowship with Him rather than hiding from Him. They had to go through a priest who once a year went into the Holy of Holies behind the veil to sprinkle the blood of that sacrifice on mercy(atonement) seat. It was all temporary until that perfect sacrifice was offered for the sins of the world.

  25. street says:

    joyce it would be truly interesting to be chased out of town in american for your faith in Jesus.

  26. poohpity says:

    So it may be good to put those 10 commandments on our lawns or on/in buildings as long as we have an alter made of gold with Cherubim’s wings facing upward and their faces looking over an atonement seat when they are broken to offer the blood of bull to atone for breaking them. Well unless we believe that what Jesus did finished the old covenant to begin a new one. In that new one those laws are now written on our hearts and not only that we are given a helper that makes our new desires to do good not following the flesh any longer but the Spirit because we believe in who Jesus is, what He did on the Cross and that He was raised from the dead.

  27. joycemb says:

    Street yes it would be interesting, I would be honored to be ‘run out of town’. I have been run out of homes for my faith, bring it on! It’s Him that’s important, not I. I am just part of a long line of Christ-bearers.

  28. poohpity says:

    Gary, where were the tablets kept that the Ten Commandments were written on?

  29. poohpity says:

    street, just the other day at the “National Day of Prayer” a General spoke of his belief in Jesus and a civil liberties group is calling for him to be court martialed.

  30. poohpity says:

    The last six years our country has turned so far around that the criminals are protected and celebrated while the police are being criminalized. Our government shelters law breakers and does nothing about bringing any of them to justice. We seem to no longer protect the innocent but bend over backwards to work with the most evil around the world. Our country has lost it’s way and prayer is so greatly needed. Forgive me for being so off topic but my heart is so sad about what is going on here.

  31. cbrown says:

    Pooh, I read the above statement carefully and noted several errors.

  32. poohpity says:

    OK but it would be nice to share what the errors are so that I can correct them and learn.

  33. jeff1 says:

    The same is happening in Britain today Pooh but God works in mysterious ways and the sermon a few Sundays back was how the West is turning away from God but in countries like China and Russia people are seen reading their Bibles publically. Being brought up in a war zone it was not always easy to see the hand of God but in my heart I knew that war does terrible things to people and if I know that then God knows it too. When it comes to what God is doing in the world I am baffled and it is because of this that I find peace in Christ. Living in a war zone the one thing I soon discovered everyone believed God was on their side but I soon discovered that God is on the side of what is right no matter what each side claimed. I have learned to listen for God’s voice and not mens demands for man’s form of justice is not God’s form of justice.

  34. jeff1 says:

    I would agree that for me anyway it is a stumbling block as the ten commandments were the guidelines I was given to lead a life pleasing to God. It is in my head for such a long time it is difficult not to try and obey these commands and believe that this makes me right with God. Of course I know now that this is not so but habits are hard to break and I find myself still wanting to please God this way. The good news for me is that Christ still died for my sins for God knew before I knew that I would fail.

    What a friend we have in Jesus,
    All our sins and griefs to bear!
    What a privelege to carry
    Everything to God in prayer!
    Oh, what peace we often forfeit,
    Oh, what needless pain we bear,
    All beause we do not carry
    Everything to God in prayer!

    Have we trials and temptations?
    Is there trouble anywhere?
    We should never be discouraged-
    Take it to the Lord in prayer
    Can we find a friend so faithful,
    Who will all our sorrows share?
    Jesus knows our every weakness;
    Take it to the Lord in prayer.

    Are we weak and heavy-laden,
    Cumbered with a load of care?
    Precious Saviour, still our refuge-
    Take it to the Lord in prayer
    Do thy friends despise, forsake thee?
    Take it to the Lord in prayer,
    In His arms He’ll take and shield thee
    Thou wilt find a solace there.

    Blessed Saviour, Thou hast promised,
    Thou wilt all our burdens bear;
    May we ever, Lord be bringing
    All to Thee in earnest prayer,
    Soon in glory bright, unclouded
    There will be no need for prayer-
    Rapture, praise, and endless worship
    Will be our sweet portion there.

  35. oneg2dblu says:

    Sounds to me, like that General’s, Civil Liberties, or his speech with Christian overtones, are the one’s in real jeopardy today.

    How do we today both fully knowing, and apparently accepting, the words of our new leader, the President of the United States, who has boldly proclaimed, “We are no longer a Christian Nation,” so why should we further impose the emblem of the cross upon those Americans who find it so offensive to their more modernized belief system, or lack of such, called the melting pot of America.

    Or, is it our new legal pot?.

    We are changing our old laws so quickly, I get confused…

    They, the more modern so called Americans, don’t feel they need or want any prayer or any Commandments of the Lord God displayed anywhere, or any sign of the cross, or any mention of the name of Jesus Christ.

    Yes, one step at a time, the Silencing of the Lambs, is being played out in the modern marketplace of American life.

    Soon, “One Nation Under God,” will become a laughing stock!

    Or, are we already there?

    Words and laws that used to have meaning for how to live a life in right relationship to an Almighty God, like those found in the Ten Commandments, who Jesus Christ by his own words said he came not to remove “any of them,” but we modern thinkers knowing better, have done something better for ourselves, just like we thought we did when we were building the Tower of Babel, trying in our own way to build ourselves up, but we are building in vain, for we moderns, have already agreed to taking God’s Words down.

    Where we once being a Christian Nation, who should have been that bright shining City on a Hill, that Light placed on a Lamp stand, are finding more and more, we are being covered by the veil or bowl, of, “let’s not offend anyone.”

    I ask only these few questions,
    “Do we today offend Our God by thinking we are in some act of love, are really helping others from our offensive words? Helping them, to escape from the light we once displayed so proudly in our courtrooms, our public schools, our marketplaces, just so a few who find them offensive won’t be pricked in their darkened modernized conscience?

    Who do we really serve?


  36. poohpity says:

    Gary, what was the rest of Jesus’ sentence when He said “he did not come to remove any of them”? The most important part of that sentence you seem to have left out sadly to fit into your narrative.

  37. SFDBWV says:

    In the beginning Adam and Eve’s disobedience to God’s one ordinance can be seen as not honoring their *Father*.

    The serpent lied and bore false witness against God. Satan envied and coveted God’s power and authority and dishonored his Father as well. Satan influenced Cain to murder his brother and all across the Biblical story tried murder as a way of preventing the birth of Messiah Jesus.

    Satan continues to try and use every power at his hands to steal away the lives and souls of people as a way of affronting God.

    Satan offered all the riches of the world to Jesus and to any that may believe his lies as a way to be worshiped in place of God.

    These seemingly simple 10 commandments are at the base of al wrongs against god and mankind and are a guide made into a commandment for holy righteous living.

    All of the remaining laws of worship found in the laws have no specifics in being a Christian.

    The veil was torn to show that now all people who embrace Christ are become priests to God and servants to the people, no longer just the select Levi Priests.

    Also with the tearing of the veil all who embrace Christ can see into and go into the Holy of Holy’s and commune with God one on one.

    Each time you enter into prayer you enter into the presence of God, I urge all to pray for one another today.


  38. poohpity says:

    Now I see what you meant Mart when you said, “Could it be that, in the flesh, we have a hard time giving up our love affair with the glory of moral law (the residual effects of which are still killing us), and keep forgetting the greater glory of the Spirit that makes living by the law obsolete (Gal 5:22-23).” I guess that is the difference in trying to be self righteous(following the law) or covered by the righteousness of Christ(living by the Spirit). The outcome is like night and day.

  39. poohpity says:

    Oops I meant the outcome is like the difference in night(flesh) and day(Spirit).

  40. poohpity says:

    Gary, the stone tablets with the 10 written on them were placed “in” the Arc of the Covenant behind the curtain in the most Holy place. What was above them? The mercy seat. I would then conclude that mercy was above the law. If any man was able to obey that law without failure there would have no need for mercy or forgiveness, no need for the shedding of blood to atone for the sins of mankind.

    On the day of Pentecost in the OT the priest killed 3000 when the Holy Spirit came 3000 were saved by the hand of God by believing in Jesus and His mercy.(Acts 2:41) They believed it says nothing about following the 10 but it does say after you believe then why go back under the law. That was what Jesus had saved us from the consequences of not obeying the law. We can not just pick out the 10 they are part of the 613 laws(do’s and don’ts are included) which is referred to as the Law of Moses.

    “The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.” Romans 8:3 NLT

  41. foreverblessed says:

    Not only does Jesus cover for our sins, He also gives us new life.
    We are dead to sin, but dead people need life: The Life that is in Christ.
    Gal 4:19
    Paul labors till Christ is formed in the christians.

    Many have repeated here what Mart wrote at the end:
    “Could it be that, in the flesh, we have a hard time giving up our love affair with the glory of moral law (the residual effects of which are still killing us), and keep forgetting the greater glory of the Spirit that makes living by the law obsolete (Gal 5:22-23).”

    I had a hard time.
    And still I encounter many christians who say, that all that is needed for good living is given in the 10 commandments. Like I did.
    But now, I know, I have to look to Jesus, everything we need for living we have in Christ. 2 Peter 1:3
    I should look to Him for real life, not to the 10.
    It is OK if you do, but you have to move up to a higher level, otherwise you will be like John the Baptist, called the least in heaven.

    The New Covenant, is God doing His part, AND doing our part, as we look in faith up to Him.
    Jer 31:31,33-34

    So instead of looking to the law for guidance I should look to Christ.
    What a hard thing to do!

  42. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    It seems to me both the events celebrated at Pentecost mark the birth of a people in covenant relationship with God. The Law given at Sinai is a guidepost as much as the coming of the mighty rushing wind of the Holy Spirit is a guidepost.

    Jesus clearly says that upon his resurrection the temple of his body is rebuilt (John 2:19). Messiah gives the glory that shines so brightly in the New Jerusalem that no sun or moon is needed. Nor is any temple required, because we have the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb (Rev 21:22-23).

    In the very latter days it seems there will be a hardening that surpasses the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart, or King Ahab’s or Jezebel’s heart — Jesus says, “Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.” (Rev 22:11)

    Jesus will judge everything when the time comes. Jesus-followers can stand fast and continue telling of God’s mighty deeds — welcoming the stranger, caring for the widow and the orphan — sharing what we have with others. The church is beyond the veil, not behind it in my opinion. It is late in time.

    Joy all day!

  43. poohpity says:

    Receiving the Holy Spirit is a quidepost? I thought it is our seal, a guarantee that assures us that we are His and will be with Him forever more. I can see the law as a guidepost that directed us to Jesus but the Holy Spirit shows that we found our way when we were lost.

    2 Cor 1:21-22 NLT 21 It is God who enables us, along with you, to stand firm for Christ. He has commissioned us, 22 and he has identified us as his own by placing the Holy Spirit in our hearts as the first installment that guarantees everything he has promised us.

    Eph 1:14 NLT The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.

  44. poohpity says:

    Oh Maru, now I see how the Holy Spirit is a guidepost. It guides into all truths like what Jesus taught in John 16:13 NLT “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.” Should not have spoken without thinking, lol.

  45. remarutho says:

    Agree, Pooh, that Guide is better than “post.” In no way does the Holy Spirit stand still on the road of faith! My thinking with regard to the Law and the Spirit is both have served God’s people just as the Father has willed them to.

    We were children with the Big Ten as our tutor. Now, we are invited in the Spirit to be mature and to trust Jesus more and more, it seems to me. As to the dark forces of the world, we are not expected to do more than “Hold fast.” (Rev 2:11, 25)


  46. remarutho says:

    My Scripture references are Rev 2:25 and Rev 3:11 — sorry.

  47. poohpity says:

    Yes that brings us back to the point forever was making when she said, “The New Covenant, is God doing His part, AND doing our part, as we look in faith up to Him.”

  48. poohpity says:

    That sure does cut away any boasting that may happen when one feels they are doing anything that the Spirit has given us the ability to do. Then the praise goes back to whom it belongs our wonderful God.

  49. oneg2dblu says:

    I hope I will control my thoughts in such a way as to make my point clear.
    To me, there is no reason why a Christ Follower would disobey, or ignore, or find useless to themselves, any of the scriptures that God has given us in His Word.

    For, 2 Timothy 3:16 does not exclude those founding guidelines given in the Ten Commandments, for it clearly says, “All scripture,”(meaning, even the Ten Commandments,) which Christ alone fulfilled, no longer have any value for this world?

    So, why do some here have a profound problem with them?

    It seems the boasting going on here, is akin to promoting that we make sure we do not ever follow those Old Ten Commandments after knowing Christ has fulfilled them.

    While we confuse/confront things by saying, don’t leave parts out just to make your talking point, we also go on confuse/confront things further, by bringing in another 600 plus laws, to make some other talking point.

    If Christ is to be followed, then how do we followers find the Commandments which He followed, to now be considered a moral/spiritual conflict for any of us?

    I guess in this new worldly way, the only right living, right relationship, and right thinking we will ever find, will only be found in not wasting any time following any of the old scripture’s rules.

    To some here, who want to make their point, they seem to think, those old guidelines just do not apply to us any longer, even if they clearly say they do.

    “All scripture, means all scripture…

    Be Blessed,

  50. remarutho says:

    Jesus has never excluded the founding guidelines, Gary.

    I hope you read these words of our Lord Jesus.

    Matthew 5:17, 18, 19, 20


    PS “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

  51. poohpity says:

    Gary, you stated, “To me, there is no reason why a Christ Follower would disobey, or ignore, or find useless to themselves, any of the scriptures that God has given us in His Word.” Sounds like a very good description of you.

  52. foreverblessed says:

    What Gary is saying is exactly the struggle I had, How can I be sure that I will not break the Law, if I follow Christ as my guide, and not the 10?
    It is also exactly the reason why I did not follow Christ, but the Law instead.
    Afraid to sin, we stick to the Old Covenant.
    And I missed the whole point of the New Covenant.
    In sort you could see it as a lack of faith in Christ, that He would be able to do in me as He has promised.
    He told us that we are in the school of the Holy Spirit, and that He would guide us, John 16:12-16

    Maru gave Matthew 5, Moses said: when the Prophet comes you listen to Him Deut. 18:18, and here we read Matthew 5,6,7, do we head what Jesus says there?

    Let me give an example:
    We all know that we should not steal.
    But do we know that Jesus told us to when a thief comes and wants to steal our tunic, we give him our cloak as well!
    Has anyone of you done that?

    (Anyway, as Oswald Chambers wrote on May 13, these commandments are not given to our old man, but to the Christ in us, the New Life)

  53. jeff1 says:

    I am addressing this to you Gary because I am a person who grew up with the ten commandments but not scripture. This is just my experience but I have learned from others here so I will share. When I was confirmed I learned the the ten commandments and the catechism and that Christ died for my sins and I should obey these commands. It is only now that I can see what was missing in my life and that was a heart for God. I was trying to be so perfect in my own life that all I seen was the faults of others and had a critical heart for others and not a compassionate one. Once my heart was convicted I seen the true me and I did not like what I saw. Having said that I am grateful that God showed me the error of my ways for everyday now instead of looking at things my way I endeavour to ask myself what would Jesus do. I still struggle for the voices in my head are very much from the old me but I now no that because of Christ’s crucifixition and ascension that I am saved from myself as much as from this world and no human being can take that from me. I am secure in God’s word, I do not have to worry that even if I fell into the trap of false teachers again that God would go back on His word. It’s what makes God so different from us is that He keeps His promises while we make promises that we cannot keep! I was not trusting God, I was trying in my own strength to be God but He clipped my wings and brought me back down to earth with a bang and He will keep doing that until I learn to do things His way not my way and for that I am truly thankful not only for His mercy and saving grace but for something I have not always had for other patience, God waits for me with open arms. The reason I find God so hard to understand is that thank God He is nothing like me!

  54. oneg2dblu says:

    Good day all… I have wasted all my words here, they are proven useless for to you all, for many think they lack maturity, and wisdom, but do not lead yourself or others to think they also lack any faith in Christ.

    For I know, that I know, that every word the proceeds from the mouth of God, and that you currently find as a blessing in your repeating of your chosen scriptures, but only see something else written when I repeat them here, makes any extending of grace, a mute point.

    This perpetual down playing of any thoughts I may have about Christ, as seen in your returned expressions, are sadly yours.

    I’ve already been blessed by them, and have shared many verses, several times here.

    I mostly am accused of mainly dividing, demeaning, depressing, and only fault finding in others, and all by using the words of God, out of context, leaving parts of the whole out, twisting the words to fit only my point, using them incorrectly,and with an immature understanding.

    All because they do not fit the narrative that you want to hear.

    If the Jesus Christ you follow today, leads you into thinking you can walk in your sinning daily and be following him at the same time, then it is you, who have moved the guidelines, stretched the tent posts to where they fit your desires, but also tear at the very fabric which God has weaved into the word about right living, because to me, they drag the Savior into them with you, and to pretend it is His Grace given, that then allows you this continued free access to your desires, is to misuse the very Grace given.

    May God give you the desires of your heart, and may He bless all who also know when they have moved away from that strait and narrow path, when they have wandered, moved the tent posts, walked in disobedience.

    Be Blessed, Enjoy your sins to the full, if you must, walk in them daily with your lord’s blessings.

    Remember, if you believe your already forgive them, why not live you life exactly the way you decide, without any Ten, or without any guidelines.

    Have it your way!

    “May God have Mercy on all those who choose to walk in their own path today.”

    I believe the closer you follow in the footprints of Christ, the less you will be walking on your own. To even think you can walk in your sin freely because you are already forgiven, is to walk a very perilous path.

    But, don’t take my useless word on that, take God’s, and take them to heart.

    Imagine starting every day with repeating, sharing, teaching, just the Ten Commandments, what kind of leading or life would you then think you have imparted, or gained in wisdom, to live freely in?

    Would it be your already forgiven sins?


  55. poohpity says:

    Gary, that is where you are so wrong. None of us has ever said that it is OK to continue in sin nor is that our desire. That is what you accuse us of but not what anyone has ever said or implied nor is that how any of us believe. That is simply ludicrous and comes from your mind and a failure to understand.

  56. poohpity says:

    If we started everyday reading, sharing and teaching the Ten commandments then we would have already broken the second commandment before we have even started out day. But if we started our day with;

    “Our Father in heaven,
    may your name be kept holy.
    May your Kingdom come soon.
    May your will be done on earth,
    as it is in heaven.
    Give us today the food we need,
    and forgive us our sins,
    as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
    And don’t let us yield to temptation,
    but rescue us from the evil one.”

    Then our focus would be on God but with the 10 the focus is on the flesh.

  57. street says:

    dear gary there is a relevant devotional today about law and perfection on “our daily journey” called the, “the perfect lie.” there is a distinct wall in the the christian life that must be over come. we put it there by ourselves and our own thinking. job ran into it and david talked about leaping over it and finding a very broad place. this broad place is a genuine place of joy. remember Jesus. you know very well He was raised from the dead proving He never sinned. not only that He was taken into Heaven, and not by a chariot of fire. yet He was tried and convicted as a sinner/lawbreaker. the question always comes back to how were you saved? by keeping the law or by faith. you will always struggle with law till you are trained to follow the voice of Jesus/Spirit. moses warned us to listen to Him. now we are warned to look for His return. God bless you on your journey and service with Him, strengthen you in weakness and sustain you in His eternal love.

  58. poohpity says:

    Living where I live the 10 commandments are posted in almost every lawn of people who belong to the LDS church. They believe if they follow the 10 they will become a god along with many other god’s. The say they are christians but many can claim the name of Jesus but do not believe in who Jesus actually is they believe Jesus has a brother who is Satan and if you do what is right you can earn your way to one of the heavens, if one gets to the highest heaven then you can become one of many gods who turns around and produces spirits that come into human beings. They do not believe there is only one God known in three persons Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That is why the verses of scripture seem so foreign and they are dismissed in a blink of an eye.

  59. jeff1 says:

    I would like to say Gary that I do not belong to a Church that has taught that it is OK to go out and sin.
    I have always wanted to please God but went the wrong way about it through ignorance of the gospel. I was the one who got caught up in the ten commandments and like the pharisees I became critical of others whom I felt were not in my league. It was not until God revealed to me the waywardness of my thinking that I had a change of heart. In what way has it changed me, I have become more aware that I am no more perfect than the next but that is not what the gospel is about, it is about Christ being crucified for a fallen world not a perfect one or He would never have had to die the death He did.
    Realizing this has awakened me to wanting to make a difference because Jesus wants His followers to do what He did make a difference in a world that no longer knows Him. For we are His hands and feet in this world. He wants me to focus on what I can do for what I do in this needy world is much more important to God than what I think. He wants my to focus on what is the right attitude to have towards people who have not even heard of Him and treat them like I would want to be treated myself. He wants me to behave in a charitable way towards others instead of how I was looking at them with suspicion and doubt. Then I will be reflecting a people who are different in a world where we have all
    become so indifferent to the needs of others around us.
    Jesus is always looking for followers because He will not force us to follow but rejoices when we do. I believe that knowing I am forgiven is making me a betters person willing to do what I can to make a difference and that has to be a God given result. To me following Christ is a journey, it was hazardous for Christ and it may also be for us but focusing on Christ’s crucifixtion and ressurection tells us that this journey was finished before it began.

  60. joycemb says:

    Good morning all,

    Having read the discussion here over the past few days reminds me of how God speaks to me when I have a question about something that is troubling me. Sometime the answer comes in a devotional, sometimes in acripture, sometimes in a still, small voice. But more often than not I have to ask, and He wants us to ask Him why; even things like why are my ways of interpretation of scripture or understanding of You seeming to be at odds with those around me? I used to listen to preachers as if they were speaking like Moses from the mountain. I learned that one can also become idolaters of clergy of which I was one.

    That said, my friend Gary I hear a lot of pulpit rhetoric in your posts. I know you will find my words offensive and battle worthy but my point is to ALWAYS seek God first. That is His wish and our greatest source of truth. A lot of voices here in various ways are trying to help, bring them all to God and ask if there is anything to learn. That is humility, the way of Jesus of the gospels.


  61. jeff1 says:

    That is such good advice Joyce I shall take it myself for each of our journey’s are different and we are individuals with different strengths and weaknesses and God has to work with us accordingly and personally speaking I have not always made it easy but thank God for his patience for His love endureth and He is with me always and that is what I did not realize that He would leave me never.

  62. SFDBWV says:

    For more than a decade, the Southern Baptist Convention’s International Mission Board (IMB) disqualified candidates who spoke in tongues or who had been baptized in churches that disagreed with the convention’s view of baptism.

    Similar rules barred divorced people or those with teenagers from being missionaries.

    That changed Wednesday, when the IMB’s trustees, at the prompting of their new president David Platt, approved a new, simplified set of rules for the agency’s more than 4,800 missionaries.
    Missionary candidates must affirm the doctrines found in the Baptist Faith and Message statement of beliefs, be baptized by immersion, be a member of a SBC church, and demonstrate an “intimate, growing relationship with Christ.”

    Previous rules required would-be missionaries to have been baptized in an SBC church, or in a church that held SBC-like beliefs about baptism. Candidates baptized in a church that did not believe in eternal security—the idea that true Christians can’t lose their salvation even if they sin—or a church that views baptism is a sacrament were rejected.

    The new rules allows those who were baptized by immersion and who are members of an SBC church to be candidates.

    The changes also address the question of charismatic worship and prayer practices, which have been controversial for Southern Baptists. Under the previous rules, candidates who spoke in tongues or had a “private prayer language” were barred.
    Under the new rules, speaking in tongues does not disqualify missionary candidates. Too much emphasis on charismatic gifts, like speaking in tongues, could still lead to discipline.

    “IMB may still end employment for any missionary who places ‘persistent emphasis on any specific gift of the Spirit as normative for all or to the extent such emphasis becomes disruptive’ to Southern Baptist missions work,” according to a FAQ about the new rules posted by IMB.

    Divorced candidates have been allowed to serve in short missions. Now they will be eligible to serve as long-term missionaries, depending on the circumstances of their divorce and other factors, such as the culture they will work in.

    Parents of teenagers will also be potential candidates. The IMB had previously disqualified them out of concerns for the challenges that teenagers would face by being uprooted and having to move overseas. Now IMB leaders will decided on a case-by-cases basis whether or not to allow parents with teenagers.

    “For example, a family considering serving long-term in an isolated African village may be different than a family considering a one-year term in London,” says the FAQ.

    The changes in rules on baptism and speaking in tongues will likely get the most attention. They made national headlines when first adopted.

    IMB leaders said the baptism and tongues rules, adopted in 2005, were needed to safeguard the Baptist identity of missionaries at a time when charismatic and Pentecostal practices were growing.

    Tom Hatley, former IMB board chair, told CT in 2006 that some missionary candidates who spoke in tongues—a practice also known by the New Testament term glossolalia—claimed to be getting direct revelation from God.

    “That’s one reason that Southern Baptists have been suspicious of glossolalia,” Hatley told CT in 2006. “If somebody believes they’re getting direct divine revelation from God, obviously that’s claiming an equality with Scripture that we would not allow.”

    Since we are discussing the upcoming Pentecost,I thought some of you may enjoy this article I received today from CT Direct.

    Enjoy and please read it all, there are 3 more pages but I just thought this said enough for now.


  63. street says:

    steve it looks like the southern baptist have as much fun as i do distinguishing who christians are.
    i guess the problem lies in the judging part and not the living part. it is where our disagreements form. not taking into account graceful living.

    battle worthy?

  64. street says:

    gary said,”If the Jesus Christ you follow today, leads you into thinking you can walk in your sinning daily and be following him at the same time, then it is you, who have moved the guidelines, stretched the tent posts to where they fit your desires, but also tear at the very fabric which God has weaved into the word about right living, because to me, they drag the Savior into them with you, and to pretend it is His Grace given, that then allows you this continued free access to your desires, is to misuse the very Grace given.”

    sounds very much like jobs sorry comforters. they said job was in his state for his sin/sins. they could not pin anything on job. they only accused him of sin to justify their understanding of how the world works. job came back and spoke correctly about the world and made their theology a bunch of hogwash. even when questioned by God, no sin is ever mention of job. not only that, before any of the events took place God said he was upright, blameless, or “tam.”

  65. joycemb says:

    Street, I don’t know what you mean by “tam”

  66. oneg2dblu says:

    LDS postings placed anywhere, even if they are followed by them with their wrong thinking, will still produce more right living in those who are exposed to them, for God;s word never returns void.
    I wish they were posted on lawns everywhere, where I live.
    Southern Baptists with all their questionable compartmental protocols, will still produce many more right living, God-fearing, Christ honoring followers, than the world will ever produce.
    I do not follow any particular denomination, because all are flawed somewhere, because they are all operated by flawed people.
    But, the church which I aspire to is the one that is built upon the same rock that Christ builds His Church.
    That church is non-denominational because it is built on Divine Revelation only.
    It is not built on Doctrinal definitions defined by the world’s churches and by worldly man, but by direct revelation from God, which by the undisputed gift of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
    How each of us who claim to be Christian, or claim to be in Christ, actually lives out their life after tasting the wonder of forgiveness of sin, the evidence of the Holy Spirit, and the revelation of Jesus Christ. to me, should also be evident in lifestyle you desire.

  67. street says:

    gary isis think the are following God like paul did early in his career. it was not till he met Jesus, a real living person, not law. a person can guide teach correct admonish and even humor you. the law can do none of these things. the law can only condemn you like Romans says. i guess you can tell how well a person knows Jesus by how much grace they live by. at no time anywhere in this blog is sin condoned or sanctioned by anyone. if you thing things are dicey now….try and sell an overt lie on this blog.

    wish i could change my life style but i can’t God has me where He wants me and Father really knows best.

  68. street says:

    “tam” hebrew word meaning innocent with connotation of personal integrity. something finished, complete, perfect, exemplary. conveys the meaning just. i added the word sound to this like the soundness of the hull of a ship. he needed the soundness to weather the storms he traveled through. if you ask me he is way up there with the best of them. i would have a hard time keeping up with him. somehow i understand Christians are described this way in the Courts of Heaven. remember John the Baptist?

  69. joycemb says:

    Thank you Street for the explanation. I had to research further the ‘tam’ and from Roger Hahn at Christian Research Institute I found this little part I wanted to share:
    “The first word applied to Job is “blameless” which is a translation of the Hebrew word tam. This word was often used to describe sacrificial animals that were required to be without blemish or perfect. The King James Version frequently translates tam as perfect, which it does here. The word was often used of persons but it did not refer to sinless perfection. Rather, tam describes a person of integrity who is all that they are expected to be as a human being in relationship with God.”

    The same word is also, I understand, used to describe the perfect sacrifice as in all animals sacrificed had to be perfect. Job was ‘perfect’ yet God would not allow his life to be taken. But what would have been the purpose if He had? Remember Jacob also. Many signs were given throughout the centuries of the coming of the Perfect sacrifice that would take away the sins of whole world, Jesus. (Several early documents (2000 BC)speak of a Job character.)

    I agree with you that yes Job is way up there with the best of them. Fascinating study.

    In your study of Job, have you come to any personal conclusions? I don’t know what your suffering entails, but doesn’t sound fun. Bless you, street.

  70. joycemb says:

    sorry for repeating myself, tired and need to quit trying to study for the night.

  71. poohpity says:

    Job and all the great heroes of faith were before the law was given. Look at Saul who lived under the curse of the law until he met Jesus and received His grace then lived as Paul.

    All the religious leaders who followed the law– Jesus referred to as white washed tombs, hypocrites, snakes and doing everything for show while their heart were very far from God.

  72. foreverblessed says:

    Oswald Chambers says many times that we do not follow a creed, or a set of doctrines, neither do we follow a set of rules.
    But we follow a Person: Jesus

    And Jesus said He had to go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit could be sent

    So the Holy Spirit is our Guide.
    And would the Holy Spirit give us any command or revelation that is against the Bible?

    With the 4th commandment, there is indeed a problem, if you take it literal, that it means a real day in the week, then the first problem is: which day.

    The second problem is, what if Christ fulfilled the Sabbath, and that living in faith in Christ, we rest from our own works, and do the works of Christ in us.
    (That is to say, we crucify the old self, and do not live according tot our old desires anymore, Gary, you seem to skip that part everytime I write it, I do say many any times that we kill the old man, why do you not read that, and keep coming up with accusations that we follow our own desires when following Jesus instead of the Law, it makes me tired, its useless talking like that when half of what I write is not read)

    Would the Holy Spirit inspire anything that is not backed up in the Bible,or in the Law?
    That was my question, and then I got distracted, thinking how someone here keeps accusing us of following our own desires when we follow Christ alone.

    The answer is, that sometimes we have an interpretation of the Law that is not from God.
    Like we take the 4th commandment literal, while it is fulfilled in Christ, if we live in faith in Him, and do not more our own works, but His in us, we live in the Sabbath, always.
    But…. if you take this 4th command literal, it is OK, you are not sinning, as long as you do not judge about another christian who sees Christ as the fulfillment of the Sabbath, and who is so inspired by the Holy Spirit to see it that way.

    DO not judge

    Be One in Christ

  73. SFDBWV says:

    My injection of the article from CT Direct was meant to inform, certainly, but also a bit of dry wit and humor on my part.

    Amongst the world’s Christian denominations are billions of people; what have we got here less than a dozen?

    What are the odds that even 2 people are going to agree on personal faith issues, when the evidence are that mega millions don’t. And don’t on an organizational level.

    Actually without an opposing view there is nothing to debate or argue against pro or con, so for the purpose of a discussion it is good to have opposition as a way of exercising ones beliefs.

    My apologies though to you personally Gary as I am going to use something you said in your last post to make a point off of. You said, “I do not follow any particular denomination because all are flawed somewhere, because they are all operated by flawed people.”
    Going on you then say that the church you aspire to “is built upon the same rock that Christ builds His church.” “That church is non-denominational because it is built on Devine revelation only.”

    Going on you continue to say *your* “church is not built on doctrinal definitions defined by the worlds churches and by worldly man, but by the direct revelation from God.”

    Seriously Gary are you hearing what you are saying?

    Everyone else in the world who belongs to the various denominations are all wrong and only Gary is right, because only Gary has “direct revelation from God.”

    The “rock” Jesus said He would build His Church upon was Peter, a man, a flawed man and considered by the church in Rome to be the first pope.

    No one here is going to convince you Gary of anything, I get that Gary. I have only said what I have said in hopes that you think a bit about where you stand with God concerning your attitude with the remainder of the Church of Christ.


  74. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Forever, Steve and All —

    The kernel of truth here is that each of us could be a majority of one if we were oriented in the way you describe — a) clinging to the ways of the old (wo)man and 2) maintaining that our statements are the only statements that matter.

    These two fixations (a & b above) could ruin the contribution of any one of us. Perhaps, as Mart suggests, “we can take the days leading up to Pentecost 2015 celebrating something far greater than a fading glory.”

    Happy Birthday, Church!

    Blessings today and always,

  75. oneg2dblu says:

    street… I would say trust me, but no you can’t yet do that, but do continue to challenge me further.
    I too am still maturing.
    I fully understand your John the Baptist story, and his plight of being that Voice in the Wilderness.

    Forever… I also fully understand having one’s words taken as if they have never been seen.

    Especially, when the same exact words I’ve posted, come back to me in retort form.

    Steve… thanks for your wit, and filling us in about the flaws in some church doctrines, because, if you read my statement again, without prejudice, you might see what it does say, that churches, even the flawed one’s that we all may think are flawed, like the LDS that pooh stated, still produce many more right living, God-fearing, Christ honoring Souls, than the world will ever produce.

    I guess we all have to repeat ourselves here, even if we are constantly unheard by many. like a voice in the wilderness.

    Where is the Church of Peter the Rock, the man, located, in Rome??

    Words like that, built on their own interpretation, do rock my boat, PUN, but they may challenge many other’s who worship Jesus Christ as the Rock, the foundation/head of the church, and they are all equally learned interpretations by men about which rock is the actual foundation, Revelation from God, or upon a particular man/or Pope.

    I guess anyone clothed in fancy robes, even if they are pure actors, scan sell their form of wares or religion to the empty, lonely, guilty, and afraid of death people in this world.

    But to those who are fed by the Spirit, perhaps one needs not say, “Beware of Wolves in Sheep’s clothing!

    Because, it is written in the scriptures, even the parts we do not want to hear about our current beliefs, we can not say we have not been warned!

    Choose to sin, choose to suffer.

    Yes, our sinning creates more Grace, and more suffering, and we are taught that we should choose the Narrow Way, for Wide is the road that leads to destruction, but many do not believe in that word either.

    Be Blessed as you encounter even through words you do not want to hear, and may you see the very same Spirit that Saul had encountered, and boy oh boy, did it ever change him and his learned religious foundations.

    Again I’ll say, It is all about Relationship with Christ, not any Paypal pandering church, oops I meant Papal pandering, that will absolve you of your sins, and if you aspire to their charge, where they dish out your price for forgiveness.

    I thought that our Grace from God was freely given, as it already cost Christ, His Life, but is it really forever free for those who Seek His Forgiveness by attending to churches protocol?

    I guess you could ask my second wife’s Father, just how much their annulment seeking cost them?

    Oh yeah, I forgot, she was the religious Catholic ready to break all the rules, and I was just a worldly common man, happily equally yoked, and freely complying and we were married on the beach, by a Justice of the Peace.

    How did that one work out for us?

    Be Blessed, or you may choose to be angry, confused, and conflicted again, by words you do not want to hear.

    I’m Blessed and Convinced by God through Revelation, and not by agreeing with doctrine of a man/Pope.


  76. poohpity says:

    But you agree with a doctrine of man through the beliefs of the LDS church. That is a man centered religion, focused on man becoming god’s. Not on God becoming man in Jesus Christ to show us about Himself.

    No matter what denomination; Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Catholic, 7th day Adventist, Church of Christ, nondenominational Evangelical, etc.. The one thing that they all agree on in unity is the basics of faith; God in three persons, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, the three are One. Jesus the incarnation of God came to die in our place for the forgiveness of sin, then was resurrected on the third day. After His ascension sent the Holy Spirit to indwell the believers as a mark that we are His and guarantees our salvation by our belief in all the above.

    Those are not the beliefs of Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Buddhism, Hinduism or Islam. They are all man centered religions. What man can do to earn His way to heaven, paradise, nirvana. The main focus is not on God but on human beings, doing.

  77. street says:

    dear gary, i had a different idea of john the baptist. not of a voice crying in the wilderness. but the greatest prophet of the Old Testament. Jesus said the least of the kingdom would be greater than john. i remember john being joyful at the voice of the Bride Groom. i also remember john having great difficulty when thrown into prison. i wonder what john’s response was when he heard the blind see, the lame walk and the dead are raised? i guess we have a response to make too.

    this came to mind,turn your eyes upon Jesus look fully into His wonderful face and the law will grow strangely dim in the light of His glorious grace. God’s grace and mercy be magnified in Him.

  78. SFDBWV says:

    As expressed here by myself and others the 60’s birthed a huge shift and change in the Christian culture worldwide, but especially in the western world.

    Church bashing became the popular thing to do in the intellectual and politically correct world that was emerging and has grown to maturity here and now.

    It was an organized church that produced the likes of Oswald Chambers and countless other missionaries that helped to spread the Gospel through word and deed throughout the world.

    And continue to.

    Without the financing of corporate churches there is very little missionary work or relief effort produced in the name of Christ.

    That finance comes from people who pay tithes to their churches and or contribute to Christian charities.

    If I may say so, RBC is a corporate Christian entity staffed by people of like mindedness and goals.

    Using the example Maru expressed, being a majority of one is not the example given by Paul of the Body of Christ.

    Thank you Gary for playing the devil’s advocate and providing the rest of us an opportunity to express our faith.
    I really don’t have to say anything in rebuttal to your remarks to me as with your own words you expose and condemn yourself. You being the only one who doesn’t recognize that.


  79. foreverblessed says:

    The topic of this blog now is the surpassing glory of the old covenant and the glory that transcends all understanding of the new covenant. (Thanks Maru)

    Gary states it is better that people live according to the 10 then according to the world, that is the old flesh-life.

    That is another topic.

    We are saying here that Christ calls us to follow Him.
    Gary seems to think that if we follow Christ, and not look to the 10 for guidance that we are then following our own desires, and so sinning. Chose to sin, chose to suffer.

    I was stating here before, that it is very well possible to follow the 10 commandments, and yet not to obey what Jesus told us.
    Like that thief comimng in our house: what would we do?
    Does the 10 commandments come to our mind? And so we say that it is totally illegal to do this, and tell the thief how wrong he is.
    Or does the words of Jesus come to mind?
    As we remember that Jesus told us that when someone takes a tunic from you, you give him a claok as well.
    And so do we ask the Holy Spirit: Help us here Lord, what do we do, and open our minds to the answer that God will give.

    But if we are set on the 10 commandments we do not even ask this question, we have already decided what to do.

    Everyone can answer this for themselves, are we still an old covenant people, or do we move up to the new covenant, and live by the glory of a greater Law, the law of Grace.

    You see, that when you bless the perpetrator you might bring him to repentance, and that is what God is all about, saving the lost.

    Jesus suffered for us to be saved, do we want to suffer with Jesus, so the bring salvation to the lost?
    Rom 8:17, Col 1:24
    Like what Oswald Chambers tells here in My Utmost:
    we are the broken bread and the poured out wine

    I would say: choose to suffer, choose to save

  80. poohpity says:

    I guess I am confused I thought it was God who calls people to spread His message through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit not the church and since He is the source of all that we have, giving back(tithes) shows we understand and recognize that. Missionary work is the calling for all that believe. The minute we step out of our homes or sometimes even within those homes we act on our calling, it does not seem to take corporate anything it takes following the desire that God puts within our hearts individually to share what we have been given, taught and experienced. We give because we have received otherwise it just becomes another rule to follow not from the gratitude in our hearts.

  81. joycemb says:

    So Gary I take it you are like John the Baptist here as the voice of one crying in a wilderness of religious zealots, apostates, fools, and worldly thinkers? How did you become so ‘specially’ blessed by God as to have found the only right church to worship in? Are you an apostle or prophet, or aspire to that status?

    I ask only because I once belonged to a church that was the ONLY church in a town of 30,000 that REALLY knew how to worship God and so we were told by various prophets in the church what to do, when to do it and how evil the rest of the world was because they trusted in man-made doctrines. Yes by golly we were IT as far as churches go and were darn proud of it!!!

    Pride goeth before a fall, and I fell hard. Praise God for His patience with me. he never left me or forsook me. Just my story.

    Blessings often come through deep pain and remorse, sorrow and even joy. Blessing others we never know what that may mean to them. Be blessed with the will of God in your life.

  82. jeff1 says:

    It is in those times that I feel so much closer to God, it is in my times of despair that I look to God and I guess that is why God allows them in my life for otherwise I would become unconcerned with others needs and God wants me to concern myself with what is going on around me for that is where I can serve Him rather than only looking to my own needs. It requires effort on my part not just words but actions to back them up.
    I need to have known pain, remorse and sorrow before I recognise it in others. There are people in jobs that have been witnessing such emotions all their lives doctors and nurses, soldiers, police officers to name but a few and I can very easy want to leave it to them and opt out of helping my fellow man but what kind of person do I become when I do not want to see anothers pain or need. I am thankful that God does keep me focusing on what is important for I can too easily get sidetracked with the temptations of this world that I no longer want to feed His sheep.

  83. poohpity says:

    Isn’t it so amazing that the all the things that happened during the Last Supper, Crucifixion, Resurrection and Pentecost happened at exactly the time that all the Jews were back to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover and Shavuoth. The very things that were practiced before as precursors to what would happen with Jesus. Some may say it is a coincidence but I know it all fit into God’s plan.

    People who have the spirit of truth living in them are able to discern truth from lies and follow after The Way, The Truth and The Life that is found no where but in Jesus.

  84. poohpity says:

    jeff1, you do feed His sheep by the empathy you feel for those who are downhearted, depressed and lonely offering a song and a word of encouragement.

  85. phpatato says:

    Good afternoon All

    Disclaimer: I am not out to offend anyone. I am simply wanting to post my opinion by what I have noticed over the year(s). Should you be offended, I’m sorry, it is not my intent.

    This blog topic has become (once again)

    “Gary versus the rest of the Christian masses – Who will convince the other that what they believe is wrong”.

    I picture this whole thing as a courtroom. In it there are about a dozen lawyers.

    One lawyer, whose name is Gary, is constantly pleading his one case, regardless of what the current case is before the court. He tries to convince everyone that what he knows and believes are the only and true facts. He will NOT be swayed, his facts are final and they are written in stone. He believes that if he constantly argues his same case, it will prevent him from letting his guard down, he will only hear his own voice, which will then successfully drown out what to him is foolish din that is coming from the other side of the courtroom. He is standing alone on one side of the room, a one man band.

    The other lawyers are all on the other side of the courtroom, discussing past cases, presenting thoughts on the current case and may even wonder what the upcoming case will be, although they all know that going off topic is against the rules and is frowned upon by some.

    Other than having one of the lawyers, – who seems to come into the courtroom once or twice a month in a bad mood, with the mindset of “if I am in a bad mood, everybody else should be in a bad mood too, so I am going to make sure they suffer like I am”, – the atmosphere on that side of the courtroom is jovial, friendly and relaxed.

    These lawyers are willing to hear the other lawyers’ presented points, are willing to ponder those points and may even be happy when they learn something from them, for indeed, those lawyers are wise because they know that even a small case in point learned will make them better lawyers.

    And the Judge who presides over the courtroom, well He is a fair and loving Judge. He looks at each and every lawyer in His courtroom and can see things about each lawyer that pleases Him and things that He knows needs work in them. But He loves them all the same as they are all worthy and precious lawyers in His sight. And it is after the courtroom has closed for the day that He waits to see which lawyers will knock on His chamber’s door, who are eager to ask questions if they became confused by what what they heard that day; that they listen to Him because they know that they can trust Him to guide them in their thoughts as to what is right, pure and truthful; so that when it comes time for each lawyer to want to respond in this courtroom, what they say will be uplifting to the other lawyers and not become a situation where the “crown” is presenting it’s case and the “defense” is presenting it’s case which ends with both sides of the court hoping for a victory so the other is defeated.

    You see, this courtroom is Christ’s courtroom so we shouldn’t be coming into this room arguing whose side is right. This courtroom should be that once we leave it for the day, we are encouraged, enlightened and uplifted to be better equipped to present ourselves to those on the outside.

    And as Bill would say, this is my take, your take may be quite different. And because the topic is speaking about law, I thought it not off topic to post this courtroom scenerio.

    Blessings to all


    Now to go out and cut the grass which is a 2 1/2 hr job on a riding lawn mower. lol

  86. joycemb says:

    Viv what you are talking about, and thank you for your honesty and transparency, reminds me of Paul’s words in I Cor. 13:1-10 NLT God’s goal is love.

    John 3:16-17 NLT

  87. cbrown says:

    Great discussion. I can not imagine having this discussion in Sunday school class because there would not be time for reflection before responding or receiving a response.In”Discover the Word” the the topic is faith versus works as well.Also how to view trials.

  88. joycemb says:

    I don’t know how to bring this up so I’m just going to speak it.
    I have just realized that it’s not the people here who are causing me and others angst. It’s the enemy of our souls, Satan, who’s job it is to steal, kill, and destroy our Joy in the Lord.
    If we have the Joy of the Lord we trust Him to grow us up, give us wisdom, and help to heal each other with our love, care, and support.
    We are the least of these Jesus came for, each and every one of us.
    Enough said.

  89. oneg2dblu says:

    pat… Now that you’ve held high court, pictorially speaking, and being both judge and jury in using your opening statement, as the gospel truth, I would like to interject some more possible defining way of presenting this one case as you call it.

    First, I would like to say, “It is not Gary verses the rest of the Christian masses, because that premise has never been my position.”

    It is not me against anything, it is only the playing out in the open courtroom, two different interpretations of scripture, two different strongly held opinions, and two sides to every story the really must be told for the whole story to show a complete picture.

    My position is merely this… that we can not display only the blessings, without also exposing the warnings written in the scriptures, for a reason.

    Oh how many times I’ve used that one expression, written for a reason, to explain why we must not leave the warnings out.

    But, the voice of warning, is none other than the voice in the wilderness, which says, “Repent for the Kingdom of God is near.”

    If that does not apply to those who you call, the Christian masses, then, it does not apply.

    Unfortunately, there is a certain doctrinal following and belief system that does not require “any” personal responsibility in “any” form, for fear that works of any kind, would taint its underlying message, or, as I would infer, its lying message or premise.

    One that says to me, and many others who do not agree with that doctrine which says, Once Saved Always Saved, or, “All has been done already, and we can do nothing.”

    Or, your sins past, present, (and future,) are already forgiven you, and now you can sin freely, and never concern yourself with thoughts that God can see your sins, or hold them against you.

    A license to sin doctrine, is exactly how it is labeled by others, those who do not believe it because of all the opposing verses that tell them otherwise.

    That “one doctrine” allows for all saved souls to go on sinning and to live unchanged if you will, remain unrepentant if you will, as their already forgiven sins are then unnoticed by them , as well as a loving God in their eyes.

    A leap which I and many others will not take, because there are to many verses that support a different interpretation and resulting opposing opinion.

    So, a great divide remains unsolved now for many many years, whether I have ever presented anything here or not, it is not my one case, nor will it ever be, my one case.

    But, if that works for the collective here, the Christian masses, so be it.

    I only bring the warnings, the other side of the story to light, and the warnings have themselves convicted some here, or the Christian masses, not me, I’m only the messenger, one just like a voice in the wilderness.

    Perhaps you’ve accidentally label me, “the least,” and if so, then I guess I’m truly Blessed all the more.


  90. joycemb says:

    Gary we are all the ‘least’ of these if we belong to Christ. You are not like John the Baptist, although if one inserts themselves into the text, well, then I guess I’d have to be Mary, mother of Jesus. Yes, that’s who I’d like to be;-)

  91. street says:

    some how the least in the Kingdom got hijacked in it interpretation. john the greatest prophet with the greatest message of the Old Testament is eclipsed by all Christians over a greater relationship with God by the New Covenant. the Scripture is declaring the superiority of Christ over the Law, Lord over Heaven and earth.

    side note can the flesh keep the law? no it can not nor can it ever. then how can we live Holy upright lives? not by the flesh, but by the Holy Spirit. where do we get the Holy Spirit? it comes from God by His sovereign choice and our faith in the Son whom He sent. by the way it is work to believe this. there is a proactive action of taking up our cross daily. which ever one you turn too, the flesh or the Spirit, that is the one that grows stronger. maturity and faithfulness are really good things. in the end we are still unworthy servants. thank God for His Grace and Mercy in His Only Son.

  92. remarutho says:

    Dear All —

    Wonderful thoughts and expression today in response to “Behind and Beyond the Veil.” The veil is variously described as the flesh, the curtain covering the holy of holies or the scroll of the Torah, and/or the pall over the face of Moses following his sojourn in God’s presence.

    To me it is self-evident that the bearer of the message of the Good News does not step out of the mighty working of the blood of Jesus. This is comparable to particle physics. Measuring the velocity and position of a particle, the observer must enter into the process, thereby influencing the outcome. No messenger is exempt from the message.

    “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…”

    What joy to let and let God! “All hail the power of Jesus’ Name!”


  93. remarutho says:

    Of course I hoped to say “Let go and let God!”

  94. jeff1 says:

    I am thankful that God knows me better than you do Gary for if not I dare not think what kind of person I would turn into. You have decided that everyone desires to sin and uses the gospel of Christ as a scape goat. I thought that my opinion of humanity was bad but God who knows me had me take a look at my own heart and then asked me to judge others. It was then that I realized just how hypocritical I was before Him and it was then that I wanted to do things His way. Yes, there is still stumbling blocks for me, I still argue with God, I still get on my high horse at times and try to tell God to do things my way but now I have learned humility and I have a private laugh to myself that I should ever have the idiocy to tell God how to run the universe.

  95. oneg2dblu says:

    jeff1… could it also be that God knows me better than you as well?

    Or, as pooh says, “God knows my heart.”

    Although, it seems I somehow have become the short-sighted target, or focus of all the less than graceful and loving expressions placed on me here, through a constant barrage of others sounding off their, one note song, as a one case lawyer, an always turning every topic into the same discussion, (never finding however,) that it takes two or more opposing points, or interpretations, or opinions, to continue this repetition of name calling, labeling, and many times presenting more worldly responses, than Godly ones, as our flesh speaks out and dominates all of us at times.

    “All have fallen short of the Glory of God.”

    But, “God knows the heart.”


  96. foreverblessed says:

    THe topic has moved on, I didn’t see that when I started to write the following:

    Pat, thank youb very much for your comment, it made me smile, yes,
    And that we encourage one another, yes, that is the thing do we come encouraged when we have read here on this blog?

    I was really encouraged yesterday by the line that God gave me:
    Chosse to suffer, choose to save,
    it made me so glad, we are being part of God’s plan for reconciliation with the lost.

    And what Pat said, after having been at court, at the end of the day, we go back to God and ask Him, what do you think?

    Well, I try to do that all during the day, that all I do, is done in His Grace, God what do you think, how can I resolve this or that, or what shall I do?
    Especially when all the house hold chores that have to be done. Some of them are so repetitious, over and over again, you clean the kitchen, it becomes dirty again, you clean the clothes they come back dirty.
    I asked God to let me see the fun of this. He is still giving an answer, I am working at hearing His reply.
    Like mowing the lawn, the grass that is filled with weeds, and mostly the moss, that takes over.
    This spring I had had it with the grass, and I started to spade it under. Bit by bit. One third is done and new grass is growing. Every morning I come into the garden and that new grass makes me so glad. I was asking God, why does it make me so glad?

    It is the newness of life that it portrayes, we are all new again each morning, clean and washed in His blood, totally new. The old has gone the new has comne this morning, we are New in Christ.
    Thanks to God and His mercy!

    The old has gone, the new has come, we live in the New Covenant, which says, we cannot do anything of ourselves, as Jesus has shown us, John 5:19
    that we come to the point of knowing that we can do nothing.
    That was the point of the Old Covenant, no matter how mch we would say: God we will obey all that You tell us, Ex 24:3
    but, we fail, I have lived under the Law, till I was totally depressed, and down and out.
    And there I came at the foot of the Cross, Jesus here I am, You are the only One who can save me, and guide me. Here I am.

    And there the New Covenant started for me, God promising that He would do everything that He promised, as long as I look to Jesus in faith, and not depending on my own efforts.
    And that is exactly living in the Sabbath, having come to rest from my own works, Hebrews 4:9
    Yes, thanks to God, I finally know the meaning of the Sabbath, and I am living in it, minute from minute! As God gives me Grace.

    If we have not come to that rest, then the law will become to us: do and do, do and do, rule upon rule, alittle here a little there
    Isaiah 28:12-13
    12 to whom he said,
        ‘This is the resting-place, let the weary rest’;
    and, ‘This is the place of repose’–
    (“‘Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. ” Matt 11:28)
        but they would not listen.
    13 So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
        do this, do that,
        a rule for this, a rule for that;
        a little here, a little there –

    Gary, may God bless you much and much, may He bless your whole body, mind and soul, and spirit. And I pray especially for your feet!

  97. poohpity says:

    It would seem that one has to experience what salvation is and how one gets it in the first place to understand it is not something one can lose. One can not lose something they never had in the first place. That gift is given to those who believe not from anything we can do to earn it or it would not be a gift it would be like a pay check (wage).

  98. jeff1 says:

    I think it is fair to say that when all is said and done it is God and God only that knows the heart. That is why it is more important to keep my heart right with God than to judge anothers. As you say Gary the flesh takes over and we often open our mouths when they would be best kept shut. Having said that sharing is important for growth and regardless of our saying too much at times I do believe our intentions are to understand God’s will for us and so in God’s strength we can become more like Him and less like our old selves.

  99. oneg2dblu says:

    jeff1… Amen to that!

  100. oneg2dblu says:

    forever… thank you for your prayers.
    I find it interesting that you would make special mention of the feet.
    Is there any reason why after saying prayers for my body, that you would then feel a need to add the feet?
    I hope I have not stepped on you by asking you for more clarification.

  101. foreverblessed says:

    Gary, the feet that are ready are part of the full armour of God, Eph 6:15,10-12(NIV)
    And they are also called beautiful, in Isa 52:7(NIV)
    So that is my prayer for you

  102. Regina says:

    Good Morning, All

    Haven’t stopped by in awhile… I’ve been *very* busy, but you all have been in my thoughts and I’m glad that I have some time to stop by for a chat today. Well, I’m a third of the way finished with my divorce, and, at the first court hearing, I was awarded some spousal support with the stipulation that I move out of the house I currently live in by May 31st. Please pray with me that the LORD will provide quick help and guidance because I was able to find two rooming/boarding homes (no time to secure an apt. in that short amount of time), and one of them is in my neck of the woods and the other is further away. The Director at the home closest to me informed my yesterday that, if I choose to move in, I’ll have to put any furniture that I have in storage because the room is already furnished with two twin beds and one (or two) nightstands. I was also informed that, in all probability, I would have a roommate (currently I’m the only one who has passed a background check and was cleared for move in). I am very wary of moving into one room with a complete stranger. In my opinion, that would not be a wise decision. So, I’m gonna have to consider the room that’s further away from me. I spoke with that home owner last night, and I informed her that I needed to get specific info about the room that I’ve already been cleared to occupy. I tried to reach her this morning to give her an update on my status, but she was unavailable. I left her a vm msg, and I’m waiting to hear back from her. Thank you so much for your prayers regarding my situation.

    Love to all…

    71 degrees right now, very cloudy and intermittent rainfall in Dallas today.

  103. Regina says:

    By the way, Mart, the picture of the dove (that you chose for this blog topic) is absolutely *beautiful*! :-)

  104. joycemb says:

    Regina I am praying for you! Been in the place you are myself, once having no furniture and sleeping on the floor with 3 kids, but it felt like Heaven after the situation I had come from. God ALWAYS supplies our needs! Joyce

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