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Living in the Spirit


Flickr Photo by: Cuba Gallery

With the coming of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, followers of Jesus found a new awareness of God’s presence—not only with them, but in them. Suddenly, and then slowly, they discovered that individually and together they had personally become the New Temple of the living God.

Before Pentecost, and for awhile afterward, these Jewish believers in Christ were still worshiping in the great Temple of Jerusalem. They shared a history in which the Spirit of the Lord had come on individuals to enable them to speak with great wisdom or to act with heroic strength on behalf of their nation. It was this same Spirit they had seen in Jesus.

And now a new day had dawned. In the months and years to come, messengers like Paul would help them to live out, and even to “normalize” an inexhaustible mystery of what it would mean to walk, live, pray, love— sharing life together in the Spirit (Romans 8:9).

Admittedly, the language of the New Testament doesn’t always  distinguish between references to our spirit (in the sense of the thoughts and desires that no one knows except the one to whom they belong)—and the Spirit of Christ who is in us.

But even as questions linger, our Lord has offered us a place to begin when he assured us that our Father in heaven will not withhold his Holy Spirit from those who ask (compare Matt 7:11 with Luke 11:11-13).

Am thinking— what a wonderful confidence, hope, and way to begin again, and again…




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196 Responses to “Living in the Spirit”

  1. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends!

    Beginning again and again is the message of Pentecost. This is by God’s faithfulness. Our steadiness may waver, but God the Holy Spirit lifts us up to take up a new day after we have gone through discouragement.

    Your post, Mart, makes me think of the dear old hymn by William P, Mackay — especially the last verse:

    We praise Thee, O God!
    For the Son of Thy love,
    For Jesus Who died,
    And is now gone above.

    Hallelujah! Thine the glory.
    Hallelujah! Amen.
    Hallelujah! Thine the glory.
    Revive us again.

    We praise Thee, O God!
    For Thy Spirit of light,
    Who hath shown us our Savior,
    And scattered our night.

    All glory and praise
    To the Lamb that was slain,
    Who hath borne all our sins,
    And hath cleansed every stain.

    All glory and praise
    To the God of all grace,
    Who hast brought us, and sought us,
    And guided our ways.

    Revive us again;
    Fill each heart with Thy love;
    May each soul be rekindled
    With fire from above.


  2. joycemb says:

    Yes we are a Holy Spirit driven and empowered people of God and so are without excuse for our deeds done in the flesh or the spirit; whether good or bad. Coming together in One Spirit is awesome, isn’t it? Not so much when spirits are driven by our humanity. Yes Maru, we need revival through the Holy Spirit!

  3. street says:

    mart said,” It was this same Spirit they had seen in Jesus.”

    much Hope in this statement.

  4. jeff1 says:

    I often find it strange how I meet people for the first time and yet feel like I have known them for a life time it is like we share the same spirit. There is a peacefullness and contentment that comes from knowing God will never leave us. When you know you were going astray and God reigned you in, it is very humbling but my humbleness before God must extend to others and I am still struggling here but I now know I am not in the struggle alone and that with God’s help all things are possible.

    I’ve come too far to look back, again
    There is nothing behind me
    All the pleasures I used to love
    Have all faded from view
    There’s a new day ahead for me
    My heartache is over, you see
    I left it at Calvary
    Where my new life began

    I’ve come too far too look back
    My feet have walked through the valley
    I’ve climbed mountains, crossed rivers
    Desert places I’ve known
    But I’m nearing the home shore
    The redeemed are rejoicing
    And Heaven’s Angels are singing
    I’ve come too far to look back

    Look around, there’s unhappiness
    Some see no reason for living
    Life will give you a broken dream
    Full of heartache and fear
    Turn around, don’t look back again
    Face the new day before you
    Place your heartache in Jesus hand
    He will mend broken dreams

    I’ve come too far to look back
    My feet have walked through the valley
    And I’ve climbed mountains, crossed rivers
    Desert places I’ve known
    But I’m nearing the home shore
    The redeemed are rejoicing
    And Heaven’s Angels are singing
    I’ve come too far to look back

    But I’m nearing the home shore
    The redeemed are rejoicing
    And Heaven’s Angels are singing
    I’ve come too far to look back
    Too far to look back

  5. joycemb says:

    Yes Street Hope is what keeps us all going on this wonderful walk through all the days of our lives!

  6. poohpity says:

    Having that quiet assurance that is for anyone who wants to grow closer to God through His Spirit that refreshes daily realizing that even the desire seems to placed in our hearts and minds just as our faith is given to us. God seems to know that to me gives confidence and hope.

  7. street says:

    mart said,” Before Pentecost, and for awhile afterward, these Jewish believers in Christ were still worshiping in the great Temple of Jerusalem.”

    the temple was destroyed. people worshiped for about 230 years without then they started building large church structures we have today. i remember the woman at the well where Jesus told her the Father was looking for worshipers who worshiped in Spirit and Truth. it sure is a challenge to keep up. the idea of worship and daily life being separated must come from hell.

  8. street says:

    mart said,”Admittedly, the language of the New Testament doesn’t always distinguish between references to our spirit (in the sense of the thoughts and desires that no one knows except the one to whom they belong)—and the Spirit of Christ who is in us.”

    seems to me we died when we took up the cross.
    it just we put it down from time to time or drop it.

  9. joycemb says:

    Street, Paul said ‘I die daily’, for me also dying is a daily thing as my flesh still rises up quite often. Will be so glad when this tug of war is over for good!

  10. lovely says:

    Holy Spirit is our Helper John 14:26 , presence of the HOly Spirit is strong when there is unity Acts 2:1, Jesus work miracles through the Holy Spirit Acts 10:38, HOly Spirit pours out His love in our hearts Romans 5:5. Prophecy, healings are work of the Holy SPirit 2 Peter 1:21

  11. jeff1 says:

    If we are living in the spirit then we are right with God but some are doing this better than others and when I allow false teachers and worldly thinking to invade my walk then I get out of sync with God. When I get out of sync with God it causes panic in me and that will cause me either to run to Him or away depending on whether I see God as a God who punishes or a God who is merciful. I have being seeing God as a God who punishes as I was brought up to believe if I did not keep the commandments then I could not be right with God but that was man’s interpretation and not God’s judgement.
    God never expected that all would walk in sync with Him or Christ would not have had to die on the Cross for He died for mankind myself included. It is God who knows our failings and loves us anyway. When we fail to turn to God in fear of retribution from Him we in effect allow Satan into our heart and mind. For me it is a daily dying to the flesh and like you Joyce I will be glad when I am His and His only. I shall put it like this when I take out an insurance policy like house insurance it is to cover the cost of my home in event of damage to it accidential or otherwise. Jesus is our insurance policy that God has won the war against Satan for the heart that has strayed from God fears history will repeat itself and they then see Christ as their only hope of Salvation.

    O God, our help in ages past,
    Our hope for years to come,
    Our shelter from the stormy blast,
    And our eternal home.

    Under the shadow of Thy throne
    Thy saints have dwelt secure;
    Sufficient is Thine arm alone,
    And our defence is sure.

    Before the hills in order stood,
    Or earth received her frame,
    From everlasting Thou art God,
    To endless years the same.

    A thousand ages in Thy sight
    Are like an evening gone;
    Short as the watch that ends the night
    Before the rising sun.

    Time, like an ever-rolling stream,
    Bears all its sons away;
    They fly forgotten as a dream
    Dies at the opening day.

    O God, our help in ages past,
    Our hope for years to come,
    Be Thou our guard while life shall last
    And our eternal home.

  12. SFDBWV says:

    “Living in the Spirit”.

    It is to remember that the Holy Spirit is a part of the Triune essence of God and that the Spirit is always referred to as “He”.

    Anyone wanting to read a good book about the Holy Spirit can find Billy Graham’s book titled “The Holy Spirit” to be very helpful in understanding His purpose and presence in us and in the world.

    As far as what living in the Spirit means for me, it is that I live out my life in concert with God’s presence in me. Leading, and urging my actions whereas all things are concerned.

    A quick reference as what that looks like can be found in Isaiah 58:8-12.

    The problem is that life presents its own set of circumstances that divert our attention away from listening to that still small voice in our hearts to the roaring noise of life. (1 Kings 19:11, 12, 13)

    Also have to remember that the gifts that God gives Jesus’ followers (1 Corinthians 12:1-31) are meant for the group not the individual and that the proof of God’s presence in our lives is shown by the “fruits” produced by Him through us. (Galatians 5:22, 23)

    If we are honest with ourselves we know that though we want to live better lives “in the Spirit”, we also know we fail. It is in knowing this that we can show sympathy for others who also fail instead of judging them harshly.

    Life isn’t easy and following Jesus sometimes only makes it harder, but the journey transforms us and brings us closer to where He wants us to be, a journey that would be impossible without His Spirit living in us.

    53 and foggy this morning in the mountains of West Virginia.


  13. street says:

    jeff said,”Jesus is our insurance policy that God has won the war against Satan for the heart that has strayed from God fears history will repeat itself and they then see Christ as their only hope of Salvation.”

    i think of Jesus as more like God making a permanent peaceful solution to our sin and rebellion against God.
    one in which love,joy, and blessing flourish. insurance is something you may never need and the guy down the road gets the sorrow and the benefit of group coverage. some how i don’t think Jesus is some one to leave with other important papers. He really is alive. He really is God. He really put me in the current circumstances i am in. i, like many other need to constantly remind my self of this. His Word and Spirit exalt God and deliver us from evil by maintaining our relationship by Christ. He has every right to do with us as He pleases. ouch, we are not our own, we belong to Him for good or for evil. joseph got it right when he said,” you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.” no i am not advocating sin. why do things that harm your self and others. the real struggle is the influence of evil in our lives. the influences of our own hearts drives me crazy. it’s hard to understand why i rebel against God who loves me so much and i know His ways are superior to all other ways. seeking justice is very difficult, loving mercy the same, walk humbly with God or be humbled.

  14. jeff1 says:

    I have difficulty seeing God’s plan in the evil that is either done to me or my own evil thinking. When I am thinking this way God’s presence is not within me it is Satan who is dwelling in me. I have to come through it, God does not remove Satan’s influence but He is with me in the trial. My battle is not doing evil, but resisting evil thinking. I must leave it with God but I stumble many times in doing this for it is difficult to see evil prosper and not want justice. I am waiting for God but while I wait evil prospers and this is what I find difficult, not seeing justice done, I do not seek revenge for it is not in my heart but I do believe that if justice is not done then men become lawless for they then feel they are right in dishing out their own justice. God’s law must be upheld or evil will triumph but that is not what I see happening in the world!

  15. poohpity says:

    I believe the purpose of evil is to draw us closer to God who alone battles evil. Living in the Spirit draws us to God and away from evil. Our desires are changing, sin which once drew us in to satisfy the flesh but now we are drawn to developing our relationship with God and others through restoration, forgiveness, mercy and grace. It happens one person at a time then as each person’s heart changes God sends us out to share what He has done in our lives with others.

    Living in the Spirit seems to comfort us by helping us to understand how much God wants us to trust, rely and depend on Him.

  16. jeff1 says:

    I cannot see how evil draws us to God, in fact I know more people who have turned away from God because they do not understand why God allows evil. I accept that in a fallen world evil is part of life because we are all subject to it. As a believer I reject evil thoughts in that I do not act on them so the consequences only affect myself and no one else. God has forgiven me even before I had the thoughts so my relationship with God is intact. It is the evil done with no concern for God or man that has consequences in the world and why it is getting darker and darker. There is a reason for evil and it is not God given, the world is to get darker in the end times and that is what we are seeing now! Evil is growing because of the lack of God’s will in the world not because God allows it to draw us closer. God tells us not to fear it and to stand firm against it so that His will is restored and that good will triumph over it. It is God who works in a person’s heart and changes them and we can take no credit for that. We can encourage each other and comfort each other but we cannot do God’s work in anyone.

  17. street says:

    jeff, job had the same problem and we will all face it. God shows no favoritism in order to conform us to the image of His Son. job found comfort in the plan of God and His just governance of the cosmos. there is something about waiting the molds us into the people we want to be. the difficult part comes when we question God’s love and gratuitousness, only to find we embarrass ourselves.

    i understand evil must be confronted on all fronts by the Spirit and Word of God. doing that with discernment faithfulness, and grace are difficult at best. i guess it would be easier in the Holy Spirit. david would be a go to guy, who lived and dealt with very difficult people. david understood authority and where it came from. Jesus mentions this trait before pilot at His trial.

    i hear we see Him dimly as in a mirror. do you think the mirror stands a chance when become like Him?

  18. poohpity says:

    jeff1 those are my beliefs you do not need to agree with them. At times I may not know how to express myself very well in the written word but because of evil I wanted something better something wonderful, loving, peaceful and that is what I found in God. So in a way evil drew me to God.

  19. poohpity says:

    I am most often the odd guy out on here anyway which is OK with me. I fell in love with God because of what Jesus did on the Cross and I so enjoy being guided by His Spirit, learning what the bible teaches and caring for each person on here even those who may not really like me and those the Lord brings into my life. Some are easier to get along with than others but God created every person with the thought that He wants them to know Him as He knows and loves them.

  20. joycemb says:

    The purpose for suffering is not to receive healing but to know the Healer. Job thought he knew God until he went through severe suffering. We are all blinded sometimes by the good. But the good may not always be Gods best. I learned that the hard way also. Whatever the circumstances of our lives may be we mustn’t waste time by blaming ourselves or others, for that matter. As you said street, we are where we are by design, His purposes to be fulfilled. Don’t look around, look at God. By His Spirit He brings the right person, word, idea or revelation at the perfect time. Patience is important also. It’s His way or we increase our suffering needlessly by complaining, feeling sorry for ourselves, or blaming others. In Gods economy every nanosecond is in His capable hands. I keep learning also.

  21. jeff1 says:

    I do see where you are coming from now and I understand why you would say God uses evil to draw us to Him.
    I too was drawn to God because of evil but I do not understand how evil fits in with God’s plan in the world. Having seen what hatred can do to men’s hearts is scary and though I have come out the other end I do have scars. I have peace in my heart because of Christ’s sacrifice but that does not guarantee peace in my Country were there is still unrest and uncertainity in governing it. I was 15 when the troubles started and I am 60 now so it has been a long conflict and I long for a lasting peace if not for myself then at least for my children but I am not sure that mens hearts desire such peace and I am too weary for another conflict.

  22. joycemb says:

    O soul, are you weary and troubled?
    No light in the darkness you see?
    There’s a light for a look at the Savior,
    And life more abundant and free!

    Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
    look full in His wonderful face,
    and the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
    in the light of His glory and grace.

  23. poohpity says:

    jeff1, God did not want us to know evil. God created all that was good with the hopes we would be satisfied with knowing and trusting Him but mankind was not satisfied with that they wanted to be like God knowing good and evil. Thus the fall. Evil still flourishes in those who wish to be separated from God. Evil is the intent to do harm. With the Holy Spirit living in us we now know we have His power and a choice which to do, which to focus on, good or evil.

  24. SFDBWV says:

    One of the items that the Holy Spirit gives a believer is “discernment”. One of the problems with such a gift is when people confuse their understanding with God’s enlightenment.

    I like the word “unction” found in the King James only once (1 John 2:20) its meaning is to have an anointing from God/Holy Spirit.

    If you have ever experienced an unction from God you will never forget the experience and will forever know the difference between that and “figuring things out”/discernment on your own.

    There always seems to be a battle between our thinking and God’s enlightenment, but when an unction from God rises up in you there is no battle only awareness and not only awareness, but knowing instinctively with absolute confidence and obedience.

    Prayer opens up a conversation between you and God, keep always in prayer. However God is always speaking to us, we just have to “listen”.

    Praying you all have a good day today.


  25. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends —

    Another “older” word for living in God’s presence, also in the King James (and some other translations), is the term “abide.” God’s promise is that Father, Son and Holy Spirit move in and invite each believer to enter the fellowship of God’s love. (Psalm 91:1, 2; John 15:7, 8)

    Mart cites, from Romans 8:

    9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

    I marvel constantly that any person would choose to live apart from the presence of God. But, all my wishful thinking will not alter the truth mentioned above — that the human heart is fallen. Nothing can transform our sin-nature except the great gift of Jesus’ blood.

    Classic expression of the desire and need for the Holy Spirit — from Henry Lyte’s hymn written in 1847:

    “Abide with me; fast falls the eventide;
    The darkness deepens; Lord, with me abide;
    When other helpers fail and comforts flee,
    Help of the helpless, oh, abide with me.

    Swift to its close ebbs out life’s little day;
    Earth’s joys grow dim, its glories pass away;
    Change and decay in all around I see—
    O Thou who changest not, abide with me.

    I need Thy presence every passing hour;
    What but Thy grace can foil the tempter’s pow’r?
    Who, like Thyself, my guide and stay can be?
    Through cloud and sunshine, Lord, abide with me.”

    Blessings all day,

  26. jeff1 says:

    This hymn Maru is sung at many funerals I have attended and always brings tears. The other one is Psalm 23 but myself I like ‘The Old Rugged Cross’.

    On a hill far away stood an Old Rugged Cross
    The emblem of suffering and shame
    And I love that old cross where the dearest and best
    For a world of lost sinners was slain

    So I’ll cherish the Old Rugged Cross
    Till my trophies at last I lay down
    And I will cling to the Old Rugged Cross
    And exchange it some day for a crown

    To the Old Rugged Cross, I will ever be true
    It’s shame and reproach, gladly bear
    Then He’ll call me someday to my home far away
    Where His glory forever I’ll share

    And I’ll cherish the Old Rugged Cross
    Till my trophies at last I lay down
    And I will cling to the Old Rugged Cross
    And I will exchange it someday for a crown

    Yeah, I will cling to the Old Rugged Cross
    And exchange it someday for a crown

  27. jeff1 says:

    Focusing on Christ is what gets me through the unrest and the uncertainity. Christ is my reason for trusting God for I do not understand His ways which are beyond my understanding for I am lowly and weak in spirit.
    You say Pooh evil flourishes in those who wish to be seperated from God but what about those who allow evil into their hearts and claim they have God’s approval.
    There is also non believers who would not hurt a fly.
    The longer I live the more I discover that following Christ is a lot more about actions than words for I have found that the person who talks the talk is less likely to walk the walk.

  28. jeff1 says:

    Just want to say Pooh I do trust your word but I believe we have to discern in life whose word to trust and whose not to, by their actions and not what they claim to be for many in my Country are now being investigated for child abuse who claimed they were men of God.

  29. joycemb says:

    2 Timothy 3:1-9 describes the situations and many more you are describing, Vivien. And these were problems within the fellowship of believers! Sobering, isn’t it?

    This is why we trust no man/woman, only God as described in scriptures.

  30. remarutho says:

    Lovely hymn, Vivien —

    And after the cross — the resurrection — Jesus’ life in and through us as we move out, always bearing the cross and the empty tomb in our hearts! Holy Spirit, be our Guide.


  31. joycemb says:

    AMEN! Maru

  32. poohpity says:

    That is so true jeff1 some say evil is good and good is evil. I have grown to believe and still do that trust is a valuable thing and not something we just give away freely without it being earned. I also learned when I started this relationship with the Lord that there are steps we can take by comparing everything to His Word. Most really sincere preachers will tell their congregation to do that as well.

    Like Mart was saying after a while it just sort of becomes the norm to live, pray, walk and love in the Spirit but it can also get taken for granted as well. It is like any relationship one has to be an active participant and it takes work by giving up time to be involved by listening and sharing with Him from the heart, the part that God know so well, that we may hide from others.

  33. jeff1 says:

    I have to say Pooh that anything God has allowed in my life be it good or bad I have always learned from it.
    I have learned that while I may see traits in others I do not like that my own heart hides the same traits otherwise I would never have recognised them in the first place. God has shown me that walking with Him I will learn more about myself and others than I ever will looking for faults or looking to blame others. The hardest part for me to get my head around is that God wants to restore us for that has always been His plan for us, not to burn us in hell for our sins which many still believe today but to restore us to what He know we can be.

  34. foreverblessed says:

    Have been busy, with music for the church, tomorrow in church doing the music.
    I was reading Mart’s topic, and was thinking, should I ask every morning for Gods Spirit. If we ask we receive, but every morning, a new day, a new start
    Someone told me last week at church, the verse ringed in her head, “you do not have because you do not ask”
    Well, I shall pray over it tonight, have a good night it is getting late here. Have to go.
    God bless you all!

  35. street says:

    been thinking about power.
    mans power lies in cohersion manipulation, violence, and death.

    God’s power is grace, truth, mercy, and love.

    no wonder we are so messed up.

    new hearts for old.

  36. jeff1 says:

    If you could go where I once was
    If you could go with me
    Back to where I started from
    Then I know you would see

    A micacle of love that took me
    In it’s sweet embrace
    And made me what I am today
    Just an old sinner-saved by grace

    I’m just a sinner saved by grace
    When I stood condemned to death
    He took my place

    Now I live and breathe in freedom
    With each breath of life I take
    Loved and forgiven, backed with a living
    I’m just a sinner saved by grace

    How could I boast on anything
    I’ve ever seen or done?
    How could I dare to claim as mine
    The victories God has won?

    Where would I be had God not brought me
    Gently to this place?
    I’m here to say I’m nothing
    But a sinner saved by grace

    I’m just a sinner saved by grace
    When I stood condemned to death
    He took my place

    Now I grow and breathe in freedom
    With each breath of life I take
    I’m loved and forgiven backed with a living
    I’m just a sinner saved by grace

    Now I gro and breath in freedom
    With each breath of life I take
    I’m loved and forgiven backed with a living
    I’m just a sinner saved by grace

  37. SFDBWV says:

    Thinking a bit this morning about the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4) and wondered about the “mighty rushing wind” and the “cloven tongues like as of fire”.

    Why the added drama of an outward sign of some event from “above”? Was the mighty rushing wind so as to get the attention of the “devout men, out of every nation under heaven”?

    The cloven tongues were only seen by the “about 120” disciples (Acts 1:15) as I read the story; or was the event only experienced by the 11 Apostles (Acts 2:14).

    Either way why the physical sight of “cloven”/divided, tongues/languages as of fire?

    I get clearly the meaning behind the symbolism since those who received the Holy Spirit at that event spoke in diverse languages intended to set every nation under heaven on fire with the Gospel of Jesus of Nazareth. The fire meat to destroy the old and bring new life from its ashes. Like a fast moving brush fire fed and fanned by the wind.

    Was the sight of the cloven tongues as of fire an added event meant to aid in the faith of those who received it? Or just an added feature to make us understand the intention of the event?

    By the way Mart the wind sock in the picture looks like and reminds me of a carrot. Any intended symbolism there?


  38. poohpity says:

    Do you really get the meaning? If not ask the Lord for wisdom and understanding. Sometimes a windsock is just a windsock or it could represent that the Holy Spirit is like the wind (John 3:8).

  39. poohpity says:

    Or is it just another effort to put Mart down?

  40. poohpity says:

    Luke seems to use language to describe the miracle that took place that day since they obviously never experienced anything like it before so he was trying to draw a word picture of what happened thus using the word “like”.

  41. joycemb says:

    Steve I get the carrot analogy. Funny. Although your tormentor doesn’t have a sense of humor truth always wins out in the end. Hope you have a great day! You are blessed. Patience wins out also, and you have much patience. :-)

  42. joycemb says:

    Speaking of the Spirit-the Bible tells us how you can identify the fruits of it.
    peace ,
    and self-control.

    And that’s a blessed carrot!

  43. joycemb says:

    As the Bible says and Mart posted: If we ask God for the HolySpirit He will give it to us.

  44. poohpity says:

    Joyce, I guess I missed where name calling is a fruit of the Spirit? The purpose of dangling a carrot is to entice someone or something more often than not to do something negative. Those are not enticements of the spirit they seem to be seen more as a measure of evidence or proof produced in the life of one who believes and has allowed the Spirit to work within their life.

  45. lovely says:

    Interesting topic. The fire of the Holy Spirit, Steve is what was promised in Matthew 3:11 .Jesus Himself baptised us With the Holy Spirit & fire. In my years of walkwith God I learned this truth that is no matter how many scripture I know & memorize., will only stay in my head until The Holy Spirit gives that revelation.That’s when I grow.Luke 24:45. Its only God that can gives us the understanding,not our own understanding Proverbs3:5.We can’t get that by just analyzing scriptures.Do we want to experience God ? DO THE WORD.Word tells us to believe,Hebrews 11:6. I pray that all of you will experience the Holy Spirit .Luke 11:13.JUST ask and Believe.

  46. joycemb says:

    Lovely thank you for the verses. It’s my prayer also that all will experience the Holy Spirit. Lord, let it begin with me, change my heart, conform it to your will. Deliver me from evil. Amen

  47. phpatato says:

    Joyce, I confess I am a bit confused by what you said this morning. Can I ask that you clarify what you meant?

    “If we ask God for the HolySpirit He will give it to us.”

    I thought that the Holy Spirit fills a person the moment they ask Christ into their heart…without asking for Him to do that. It is the Holy Spirit that then works within the believer’s life to transform that person into becoming Christ-like; to help the believer live a life victoriously. Surely, He doesn’t come and go, making it an essential daily request before our feet hit the floor in the morning???

    After a couple of days of hot humid weather, last night a rainy cold front came through. Temperature right now is still only 10 C or 50 F and it is trying hard to rain again.

    Blessings to all today.

  48. joycemb says:

    Sure Pat,
    What I’m talking about is the difference between walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh. When I get up I am sometimes tormented by dreams so I have to know how to handle them. Or I may encounter an unkind person on this blog or in my neighborhood. In the flesh I worry and even may let them ruin my day to where I forget to worship. Not often anymore, thankfully. But by inviting the Spirit to take control of my thoughts, emotions, and interactions I am submitting to the will of God. Some things I still struggle to submit to God’s will. The only thing that helps me in the Holy Spirit. It’s a daily thing for me. He does transform me though, whether I am aware or not because He lives in me. Struggles are just opportunities to submit areas in my life I have held on to whether for comfort or defense.

    Does that make any sense to you Pat? So glad you asked, I trust and value you as you are a kind friend.

    blessings, Joyce

  49. jeff1 says:

    I understand this Joyce as I struggle with the flesh. I let people disrupt my peace and get angry with myself for letting them. I try now to take one day at a time and it helps me get through better. I am so glad to hear that He does transform us whether we are aware of it or not. I had never thought of struggles in the way you described but of course that is so true. Any suggestions on how not to get upset with myself when I fail? I was thinking of a song I heard years ago of what not to do as regards living in the spirit. It goes as follows:

    A tongue can accuse and carry bad news
    The seeds of distrust it will sow
    But unless you’ve made no mistakes in your life
    Be careful of stones that you throw

    A neighbour was passing my garden
    One time, she stopped and I knew right away
    That it was gossip not flowers she had on her mind
    And this is what I heard my neighbour say

    “That bad girl down the street should be run from our midst
    She drinks and she talks quite a lot
    She knows not to speak to me or my child”
    My neighbour then smiles and I thought

    A tongue can accuse and carry bad news
    The seeds of distrust it will sow
    But unless you’ve made no mistakes in your life
    Be careful of stones that you throw

    A car speeded by and the screaming of brakes
    A sound that made my blood chill
    For my neighbours one child had been pulled from the path
    And saved by a girl lying still

    The child was unhurt and my neighbour cried out
    “Oh who was that brave girl so sweet?”
    I covered the crushed broken body and said
    The bad girl who lived down the street

    A tongue can accuse and carry bad news
    The seeds of distrust it will sow
    But unless you’ve made no mistakes in your life
    Be careful of stones that you throw

  50. joycemb says:

    Hi Viv,
    you asked how not to get upset with yourself when you sin/fail.

    I grieve, but give it to God and trust Him to change me. A favorite saying for me has been: In acceptance lieth peace. Not like, oh, it’s ok, but, I AM a sinner but for the grace of God, and it IS His will to change me into His image. His will WILL be done. Yay!

  51. joycemb says:

    Psalm 1
    1 Blessed is the one
    who does not walk in step with the wicked
    or stand in the way that sinners take
    or sit in the company of mockers,

    but whose delight is in the law of the Lord,
    and who meditates on his law day and night.

    That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
    which yields its fruit in season
    and whose leaf does not wither—
    whatever they do prospers.

  52. street says:

    been thinking about the english word mediator. some how the idea that we can demand some important benefit or comfort in negotiation with God is a fools paradise that goes horribly bad. we do not even know what to ask for. the really interesting thing is He invites us to come and ask. in the Lord’s prayer in teaching how to pray he does just that. teaching us the things we should be praying for. some how we continue to walk in ignorance even after he has told us several times. i am still impress though by the things i do understand that He reaffirms daily or the things i take as a given. He and His Word are a Great Treasure to be lived and shared. it’s also a fire that purifies us from the things that we use to love. may the journey before you be joyful in all circumstances.

  53. phpatato says:


    I do understand now. Thank you.

    We all fight the flesh whether we like to admit it or not. But praise God, He has given us a Helper so we don’t have to struggle in our own strength, trying to accomplish what is impossible….becoming like Christ on our own. The Holy Spirit is an inexhaustible everlasting supply of indescribable Power and it is only because of Him and His great love for us that we are where we are on our journey.

    To God be the Glory

    Keep close to Him and He will give you the victories you need! Love ya!


  54. SFDBWV says:

    Galatians 5:19, 20 21 gives a description of what living outside of the Spirit looks like and Galatians 5:22, 23 (as Joyce shared) gives a look at the results of living in the Spirit looks like.

    It is not in judgement that any one of us recognize either.

    The writers of the New Testament spent a great deal of energy trying to direct our attention in recognizing the differences, so when we do, we show that the Spirit is and continues to work in us.

    We are living in the Spirit.

    When we encounter people who live outside the Spirit we simply see their actions for what they are and realize they have no spiritual power over us for their behavior exposes them and how we react to them exposes ours.

    I think if you read Psalms 94:1-23 it may help.


  55. oneg2dblu says:

    Pat… succinctly wonderful paraphrase.
    Your Helper is guiding…

  56. oneg2dblu says:

    street… Yes, we need that constant filling, we need to be in the word, hearing God’s own voice ringing within as we read with helps.
    My pastor says we do get filled, but, we also leak.
    So, the need for a Divine constant drip, if you will.

  57. poohpity says:

    I so agree Steve the signs of whether we are living by the flesh or the Spirit are to take our own temperature. The easy ones to say, “oh well I do not do those” are the sexual immorality things, wild and drunken parties but then I look within at jealously, fits of rage, strife, divisions, rivalries, anger, idolatry (wanting to get the praise of man is one) and see that there are still things of the flesh that have a hold of me. God’s Spirit within helps me to focus on the areas I fall short which makes me cling so much tighter to the grace I have been shown and less likely to take the temperature of others.

    Having God’s Spirit within helps me to focus on God, it prompts my desires to be motivated towards Him, I find my comfort in Him, I find my strength in Him, I find my delight in Him all the while living attached to this flesh for only a little while longer.

  58. jeff1 says:

    Let us recognize we’re facing
    Problems man has never solved,
    And with all our daily efforts
    Life grows more and more involved,
    But our future will seem brighter
    And we’ll meet with less resistance
    If we call upon our Father
    And seek Divine Assistance…
    For the spirit can unravel
    Many tangled, knotted threads
    That defy the skill and power
    Of the world’s best hands and heads,
    And our plans for growth and progress,
    Of which we all have dreamed,
    Cannot survive materially
    Unless our spirits are redeemed…
    And only through a living faith
    Can man achieve this goal,
    For safety and security
    Are born within the soul.

  59. poohpity says:

    “When God wants to show you what human nature is like separated from Him, He shows it to you in yourself. If the Spirit of God has ever given you a vision of what you are apart from the grace of God (and He will only do this when His Spirit is at work in you), then you know that in reality there is no criminal half as bad as you yourself could be without His grace. God’s Spirit continually reveals to His children what human nature is like apart from His grace.” –Oswald Chambers,

  60. poohpity says:

    “Our Lord never put His trust in any person. Yet He was never suspicious, never bitter, and never lost hope for anyone, because He put His trust in God first. He trusted absolutely in what God’s grace could do for others. If I put my trust in human beings first, the end result will be my despair and hopelessness toward everyone. I will become bitter because I have insisted that people be what no person can ever be–absolutely perfect and right. Never trust anything in yourself or in anyone else, except the grace of God.” –Oswald Chambers

  61. joycemb says:

    Wow Steve Psalm 94 is what the Spirit also led me to read yesterday and it was encouraging and comforting. It’s easy to talk about living in the Spirit but when the Spirit lives in you He gives you all you need to live a Godly life. And your mouth and actions will show it.

    Gary nice to hear from you again.

  62. joycemb says:

    Pooh I have also enjoyed teachings of Oswald for many years and am happy to see he has become you’re mentor too, I hope. So much Godly wisdom he teaches us.

  63. poohpity says:

    Joyce, I have read him for years and get his devotions on facebook regularly just thought these two particular ones applied to our topic. I know you don’t know me at all or what my devotional life entails but my primary mentor is the Lord and going directly to source seems to benefit me the most but thanks for the kind words, I think.

  64. jeff1 says:

    I read this too Pooh and thought how right it is. It took me a long time to get here though and that in itself leaves me more patient with others for I was a slow learner and there are many like me!

  65. poohpity says:

    jeff1, we have a life time to get there and not everyone learns at the same pace that seems to be what makes the Lord’s patients with all of us so wonderful so let me encourage you that you seem to be going in the right direction.:-)

  66. poohpity says:

    lol we are His patients but it is His patience. Used the wrong word. I am totally able to butcher the English language, lol.

  67. poohpity says:

    I guess it is not so bad to butcher the language as long as I do not butcher the people using it. ;-)

  68. jeff1 says:

    I too can butcher the English lauguage if you have heard any Ulster-Scots language, I have a mixture of Irish, Ulster Scots and English so there is times others do not always catch what I mean to say and surprisingly enough when I read it back myself at times I realize why.

  69. joycemb says:

    What could happen if everyone prayed and practiced this ancient prayer:
    Grant, O Lord, that none may love you less this day because of me; that never word or act of mine may turn one soul from thee; and, ever daring, yet one more grace would I implore, that many souls this day, because of me, may love thee more. Amen.

    I like this prayer, I don’t know who said it but I’m going to be thinking about it while Holy Spirit enabled!

  70. poohpity says:

    Joyce, maybe why God showed you that prayer was He just wanted to start within you because you were on His mind today and always.

  71. joycemb says:

    Yes! Lord! Start within me today!

  72. joycemb says:

    Pooh you make a great devils advocate here. Without the refiners fire we would not learn more about Gods magnificent grace, mercy, and love. It goes deeper and more intense with each fiery dart. I know you are not the devil pooh, but you do come across using his tactics. And now that I have openly challenged you, again, am expecting you worst. Lord Jesus Christ have mercy.

  73. joycemb says:

    Sometimes people are afraid to draw near to God because the battle between light and dark becomes more intense. Trusting God for this battle as always.

  74. joycemb says:

    Our battle is NOT with flesh and blood but with spirits. powers and principalities.

  75. poohpity says:

    Joyce, often one can get a word from God but apply it to others when it was meant for the person hearing it.

    (in your words and those who share your type of thinking); the devils advocate, the elephant in the room, the tormentor, and other various derogatory names. So who is actually being the devil’s advocate and walking in darkness?

  76. joycemb says:

    Look in the mirror, pooh

  77. joycemb says:

    Pooh why do you push people away from you?

  78. poohpity says:

    Do I? lol

  79. joycemb says:


  80. SFDBWV says:

    As I have already stated, life gets in the way of “living in the Spirit” as evidenced here and anywhere there are people.

    We want to, we try to, and yet we all fall down.

    The Persian culture introduced the world to “magic” a word that has its roots in the religion of and ruling class known as the famous “Magi”. The same Magi that came to worship a new born King in Bethlehem.

    Being a believer in both the God of the Bible and His Son Jesus of Nazareth we often confuse the work of His Holy Spirit in our lives with “magic”.

    As if by saying the right words or doing the right things we can get what we want.

    It has been my life experience that it just doesn’t work that way.

    We are transformed to being more Christ-like not magically, but rather through our practicing and living like He wants us to.

    Salvation is a free gift, but living in the Spirit is not a welfare program, rather it is a responsibility we owe to Jesus for His sacrifice; and it takes work.

    Just like the simple cartoon example of a character having a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other urging the character to make a choice, the Holy Spirit urges us in the right direction or warns us of dangers and then we make choices to heed or ignore the Holy Spirit.

    Over time it either gets easier to do what is right or harder, depending on which choices we make the most. If we listen/heed more to the Holy Spirit we are transformed, if not we remain where we began; under the gift of salvation, but of little use to the Giver of said salvation. Sadly sometimes only a hindrance, yet but because of the grace of God, still forgiven.

    How you let God use you today depends on you, unless there is a task He has for you, only then is there any supernatural intervention and it is always accompanied with empowerment/anointing.

    I would say life in the Spirit is a battle, and living in the Spirit a choice.


  81. jeff1 says:

    I could not agree with you more Steve there is times I do it well and times not so well. I do believe I find it gets harder and harder. Just when I think I am making progress I get another knock back so I would agree it is a battle but knowing that God does not want to punish me anymore for my failures gives me a peace that I wish others could know. I think non believers believe that believers want to dominate them but all I want to do is tell them God is a good God and that there is much misunderstanding among believers but that does not change who God is.

  82. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Joyce’s paste-up of Psalm 1 is so appropriate to the conversation at this point! The mention of lifting our own corner is vital to friendship with God. Do I consider what God says — what God has done in the lives of other saints and sinners — what the Lord calls me to?

    At my tender age (65), I hope to be a friend to God, though often I do not make the cut as a good friend. Hasn’t God the Son been our best friend ever? And doesn’t God the Holy Spirit provide us the inspiration and the power to walk as Psalm 1 outlines?


  83. joycemb says:

    Steve your comments this morning are right on as usual. Life in the spirit is a choice, walking in the spirit a choice but the battle goes on as long as darkness rules the earth. Come Lord Jesus.

    Viv yes God is good still even in the misunderstandings or battles of life in this world.

    Getting ready for a trip up north to help out a friend who’s 40 year old son is in the hospital for about the 10th time in 3 years and doctors still can’t figure out what’s wrong with him. Please pray for him (Tom) thank you and my friend who is 68 and very weary of taking care of her disabled son and the near- death episodes. Joyce

  84. poohpity says:

    Living in the Spirit can be equated somewhat to a tandem bicycle. The front position referred to as the captain, pilot or steersman then the person in back just pedals. People have the tendencies to want that front position to be in control and then they place God in the back telling Him they got it so just pedal. It is when one let’s go of control because realizing that our ways have gotten us into most of the troubles we often experience then one can take that back position to just pedal as we become submissive to the leading of the Lord as the pilot.

    The more we trust and depend on God we find rest for our weary souls and the battling becomes less and less the more we let go of thinking we are running the show turning it all over to someone who is far more capable of being a pilot.

    Or it can be compared to a person drowning who usually tries with all their might to stay afloat, flailing their arms all around helplessly to battle the waters. Along the shore line is a rescue swimmer who is standing there waiting patiently until the drowning persons gives up before going in the water to save them. If the rescue swimmer approaches before the person is ready to let go a battle will ensue causing both to drown but when they are ready they will allow the rescue swimmer to turn them over on their back to float as they are brought to shore.

    Living dependent on our flesh, our strength, our wisdom seems to cause hopelessness, confusion, weariness, stress but trusting and depending on God brings us to a state of rest, peace and joy. It looks at lot like a little child who knows that their parent is taking care of all their needs and so they have no worries.

  85. oneg2dblu says:

    I like your tandem bike picture Pooh, because it means that the little ones who can’t reach the pedals, get a free ride. :)

  86. oneg2dblu says:

    Also, the older ones who fail to see their need to help, become nothing more than dead weight. :0

  87. oneg2dblu says:

    Unless one considers the ride to be a downhill only one, but, I think we all know better. :o

  88. poohpity says:

    I really do not feel that anyone who’s trust is in God is dead weight to Him maybe how our flesh looks at it but repeatedly we are taught it is God’s Spirit who works in us not anything we can do but just abide(pedal). Phil 2:13 NLT; 2 Cor 3:18 NLT

  89. poohpity says:

    The more we think it has anything to do with us the harder it becomes because it is futile and leads one to boast.

  90. poohpity says:

    It is not anything magical or mystical it is the power of God; an all knowing(omniscience), ever present(omnipresent), unlimited power(omnipotent) God. People who do not believe that because they have never experienced that in their lives which is being blind and deaf to His presence and have yet to trust their lives into His wonderful hands. Does it take time to let go? Sure it does especially when we are used to doing everything on our own that is the battle to let go and in learning to trust-stepping out in faith. Most figure if they don’t do things, no one else can but God can and God does it far better than we can. I wonder if they even believe in God in the first place. Going from I can do it my way to please Lord take over cause I am unable.

  91. remarutho says:

    The Apostle Paul told the people in Ephesus:

    “You were saved by faith in God, who treats us much better than we deserve. This is God’s gift to you, and not anything you have done on your own. It isn’t something you have earned, so there is nothing you can brag about.” (CEV)

    How often we forget that simple trust in Jesus allows the Holy Spirit to move events, persons and circumstances according to God’s will!


  92. poohpity says:

    Amen, Maru!

    Thinking about God is just not a natural inclination but after we accept Christ our thoughts, souls and minds turn towards God. He becomes a very important part of our being. That does mean we do things perfectly it just means we think about God, becoming able to see Him in events, persons and circumstance knowing He is in control. The powers of this world try as they might to take our minds captive to focus on ourselves, the world around us and to ignore God but then the Holy Spirit speaks to our heart to bring us back into God’s presence.

  93. foreverblessed says:

    Was thinking about living in the Spirit, it is us looking to God, saying: God we cannot do it, we look up to You to do it in us. (It= what God commands us to do, Jesus’ teachings, the loving of our enemies, the giving to those who ask, the loving the other as Jesus has loved us)

    Coming to that point, the realization that we cannot do these things, that we are helpless, that is a long road, at least, that is my experience.

    The starting of the day in absolute trust that God will give the power to do in me, that what He leads me to do. The resting in His guidance, the trusting that He will provide.
    The first thing: waiting on God, on what He commands me to do, that is so difficult.
    When I do not hear anything, then I just do the chores that are needed, but soon I fill in more tasks. Did I get it from God, or was it me myself who took up a task?
    These are questions that I have.

    I was asking God, should I pray for the Holy Spirit?
    What I got as an answer, is. that when I wake up in the morning and look up to Jesus, and say, Here I am,, this day is for You, and I look up in faith to Him, the Spirit starts flowing, and God is one.

    Anyway, have a happy day, this is The day, live it in faith in Christ!

  94. poohpity says:

    Hebrews 11:6 NLT; James 2:19 NLT

  95. jeff1 says:

    Like myself foreverblessed you sometimes doubt that you are doing God’s will and not your own. I believe God wants us to walk by faith but we are forgiven if we do not do it perfectly. Look at the characters of the Bible they made mistakes but God still used them. It is the fact that God can use me in my fraility. Look at the world today only the strong survive. Men have no time for weakness, I was told by my employer that I had to be like the rest and because I was not I lost the job. God however does not see me as a waste of space, I now volunteer in a charity shop, the proceeds go to the Church and Cancer Focus. I also volunteer for the Red Cross and visit elderly. God has ensured that I get benefis which enhances my work pension and I can live well without working. It also means that because it is voluntary that I choose how much I take on so as not to bring on my illness by getting stressed out. I have also got to meet really nice people because work places now are more suited to people who have a competative spirit and I never was competative even when I was younger. Unlike man God is not a hard task master so do not be too hard on yourself for I have found when I don’t get stessed over it then I can actually do more but when an employer is cracking the whip I end up becoming stressed. I am not saying that I do no have bad days for I do and sometimes I compare myself to others and feel I come up short. What I now believe is that God’s ways are not man’s ways and God has a purpose for me be it big or small I am still working for the Kingdom.

  96. narrowpathseeker says:

    I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO agree with Joyce’s post on June 2nd at 2:51…That is EXACTLY what comes to mind when I read some of the arrogant, cunning, put downs and sickening kiss ups here coming from a professing Christian using what seems to me to be the tactics of satan to intentionally upset people…

    Pooh..I ignored your nasty post to me about ME being bitter and hatefilled etc…because to me I am fairly certain…these are things you most likely hear said to YOU frequently….I am VERY aware of my sins..I ask the Lord for forgiveness and ask Him to help me rise above myself daily and YES I can be bitter, hatefilled, jealous when provoked and I have to resist it … YOU are the only person on HERE a Chistian site that brings out ANY hostile feelings in me and I am sure I don’t stand alone. I pray for you because I consider you an enemy and I think ignoring your nastiness or praising you for it is NOT doing good unto you, but rather enabling you as you continue to put somebody/anybody(except Mart)down almost daily. The other day it was Steve.. I have no idea how anyone can know scripture as well as you do and think the way you treat people on here is ok. SO looking in the mirror when you’re laying out the sins of others is a good idea cause m ost of the time you are describing yourself bigtime.

  97. street says:

    steve sais,”Salvation is a free gift, but living in the Spirit is not a welfare program, rather it is a responsibility we owe to Jesus for His sacrifice; and it takes work.”

    i don’t know if i can agree with you on this one steve. Jesus is a well fare God. if He did not look out for us we would not be freed from sin. yes, He uses our failures in sin to to bring our yielded souls to glory. the thing that troubles me is the sin we claim to be forgiven still entangles Christians! why do we get tangled up in something so evil that just one makes you guilty of breaking the whole law and set you up for death? is it ignorance? no. paul says it is evil that lives in our flesh. even after we are saved it presents can be felt. much like feeling close to God. tough to write, but true. taking up our cross daily reaffirms our understanding it must be mortified. even if you accomplish this you need to turn to God or you will be doing this in the flesh and end up where you started from. we all ranted and raved about the law and the Spirit before. till Christ is formed in you it will be a struggle for all of us.

    when Christ died on the cross did He do it for nothing?

  98. poohpity says:

    Narrow, you, Joyce and Steve share much in common. Thank you with all my heart for considering me an enemy, that means more to me than you will ever understand and is the highest compliment I have ever received.

  99. oneg2dblu says:

    Probably not going to help anyone here who fears that if they do something themselves, they are not working totally in the faith walk, the walk of rest, the let God do it all instead, or, the I can do nothing crowd.

    Of course, I am always the guilty one here for bringing the other side of the coin or story, or current bunny trail to light, but that is what the spirit in me brings to this blog.

    I for one, have never been able to ride a bike yet, without pedaling, and pedaling by the way, “IS WORK”, and necessary work as well if you are going to get anywhere.

    But, that is just my life experience, and I’m sure that many may have a different take on my point of effort properly applied..

    To me, “Dead Weight,” would be that weight which lends nothing of itself to the process, or the journey.

    Now, I’ll let go of that bunny trail, which I did not create, and get back to today, because in ODB today, we see another picture of the church, meaning those who have the Holy Spirit living in them, where we “the church,” should be WORKING TOGETHER, we are mincing our words constantly instead.
    Yes, we should be getting our hands in the work, it is all part of this relationship with the church and with Christ.
    If we are family, we need to be family.

    Do I labor endlessly? Of course not!

    Do I rest all the time? Of course not!

    Do I walk by faith, yes, but only in my labor and in my resting.

    We always seem to get “tripped up” on the salvation thing here, because the human element in us won’t allow us to move on, or as some have said, the flesh, or the Wiles of Satan pricking away inside of us.

    Using my own words here.

    So, I believe that Paul had something of godly value to give us, when he said, “I can do all things…” and you know the rest of the verse or the story, it is always there, just on the other side of, “I can do nothing.”

    Have a Blessed Day All.

    I totally get Steve’s point as well.

  100. poohpity says:

    The tandem bike is an analogy when we allow Jesus in the place of the pilot at the front of the bike in Matt 11:28-30 NLT;

    28 Then Jesus said, “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.”

  101. poohpity says:

    Having two pedal is much easier than doing it alone.

  102. oneg2dblu says:

    Narrowpathseeker… you, Joyc, and Steve and I, share more in common because we are all family here, and the One we Follow as our leader of that family says,”Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.

    Like Steve says, “we” have a choice to make, we could just Abide in Christ and let it rest on Him, and remain silent.

    Or, we could Abide in Christ and let everyone share their points, or pricks if you will, knowing the source of some are based in the flesh, and in giving he flesh its fair due, just let it abide as well.

  103. oneg2dblu says:

    It is getting rather old hearing about another’s thoughts of one possibly not ever really knowing the Spirit, because they have another point of view, one that may challenge theirs.

    There are verses that also cover us in our bad choices, or our poor speech selection, and that is sometimes shown as no easy burden or yoke to place upon any other offender here who apparently is not yet ready to surrender.


  104. oneg2dblu says:

    Many Proverbs come to my mind to me on this issue, “A fools back is made for whipping,” is one that rings true and often finding there in no resolve.

  105. joycemb says:

    poohpity says:

    June 3, 2015 at 10:49 am

    Narrow, you, Joyce and Steve share much in common. Thank you with all my heart for considering me an enemy, that means more to me than you will ever understand and is the highest compliment I have ever received.

    Pooh, your arrogance betrays your ignorance.

  106. SFDBWV says:

    Street it is ok you disagree a bit with me, I harbor no ill feelings because of it, we are ok.

    To all:

    I could write many references to verses because there as so very many, but let me just give this one;
    Matthew 25:14-30
    This parable explains clearly that those who are given the Holy Spirit and use it to expand God’s purpose are rewarded while those who bury it in the ground so it doesn’t get stolen and do nothing with it are severely punished.

    Living in the Spirit is not resting in the Spirit, they are different meanings and meant for different postures.

    Almost all of Jesus’ parables use workers as examples, not lazy loafers.

    I suggest some of you just take whatever Bible you may use and read the red print, if your Bible has red print, and if not just separate out what Jesus has to say and see that we are to be workers and doers, not set idle.

    Just the use of the word “living” in the Spirit denotes doing something, otherwise you are not “living” in the Spirit instead you are “dead” in the Spirit.

    Gary you and I only disagree on one point, that being “eternal salvation”. We agree fully, I think, in that once we have the Holy Spirit we are to live like we do, not like we don’t and in so doing be a beacon of light in a very dark world by allowing Him to shine through in all that we “DO”.


  107. poohpity says:

    Steve, what I think street was saying was not about the gifts of the Spirit but where you said earlier, “We are transformed to being more Christ-like not magically, but rather through our practicing and living like He wants us to.” I think street was saying that it is the Holy Spirit that transforms us to be Christ-like while you seem to be saying it is due you practicing and living it, in other words it depends on you doing it. That may be why so many stay the same with little growth or growing closer to God. It is not magic it is God working in His children’s life. His working, not ours it is up to us to be submissive to that Spirit. Philippians 1:6 NLT Like Paul as well as many believers He was changed when the Holy Spirit came upon Him.

  108. poohpity says:

    Magic denotes sorcery or witchcraft. What the Holy Spirit does in people’s lives is a miracle.

  109. poohpity says:

    It seems to be our flesh or in our strength that caused all the problems to begin with and the very reason Jesus came and had to go through all that He did.

  110. narrowpathseeker says:

    Pooh, I have no trouble believing that my dislike for your behavior is the highest compliment you ever received…pretty sad actually.

  111. narrowpathseeker says:

    Gary, you wrote… “A fools back is made for whipping,” is one that rings true and often finding there in no resolve. You are very right about often finding there is no resolve…

    I recall one of my own nasty dispositions on my journey…where I always saw myself as the “good guy” and everybody that disagreed was the “bad guy”…well maybe not EVERYBODY, but I worked hard to raise my kids alone and also had to deal with a very selfish, abusive, and lazy person.. A lot of people understood what I endured so they excused my mal behavior when it reared its ugly head, but it was a nice so kind person who asked me one day, “Who in the H do you think you are?”…that shut me up and got me praying, analyzing, confessing and growing…I didn’t like it, but I am glad the Lord used this person to start the reconstruction….Sometimes being silent isn’t the answer….I tend to believe it was that combined with people praying for me.

  112. narrowpathseeker says:

    Sorry…”not so kind” not nice so kind… ;-) Pearl

  113. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, Gary…I think you are both right about needing to do our share…I have been coasting a lot lately and really need to start pedaling a lot more. I haven’t been a very bright light in the darkness, but I am going to do something about that …have a Blessed Evening.

  114. joycemb says:

    june 2 2:17 Maru said:How often we forget that simple trust in Jesus allows the Holy Spirit to move events, persons and circumstances according to God’s will!

    I think sometimes it’s very hard to simply trust in Jesus. Yet I agree the Holy Spirit can move events, persons, and circumstances according to God’s will in spite of us. Look at Jonah! If He makes the blind to see, like Paul, I believe He can do wondrous things with us.

    In the mean time we grieve with those who grieve, rejoice with those who rejoice, and at the same time we can still worship God, keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, as best we can. Yes, I firmly believe the Holy Spirit of God is involved in all of our circumstances, the good, the bad, and the ugly. As well as the joyful, happy, cheerful, and prosperous circumstances. Paul said he learned to trust God for ALL circumstances. God bless us all as we learn what God wants us to learn.

    Pearl, thank you for sharing your journey. It takes a big person, willing to bend down, to submit to the Holy Spirit. And you did! I’m very proud to know you, sister. You are a good example for us all.

  115. oneg2dblu says:

    I guess I look at this family, the church, like one body where all the parts of this one body are working together, which certainly functions all the better, when each part does its particular job.
    The foot can’t really see where it is heading or where it has come from, so it depends on the eye doing its part to help guide the body.
    We all collectively know that the word of God is the lamp to our feet, and the light to our path as it helps the bodies eye see and that also helps keep the bodies foot from stumbling.
    To me, we all need to do more than just know the word, because we must also apply it to how we all should work and live together as one working body, each part doing it job.
    Warts and all! :)

  116. oneg2dblu says:

    I believe in Eternal Life through Christ, Who is Our Salvation.
    I also believe that every life does not automatically qualify as having eternal life through Christ Our Savior.
    As the word says, some have after knowing better, shipwrecked their faith, some have after following walked away, all are like sheep and have wandered, and none is worthy accept for those whom God calls to Himself, and He then gives them over to Christ. or Christ as says, “Away from me you evil doers, I never knew you.”
    That to me does not mean, that those evil doers had no knowledge of Christ or the Word of God, but it does means those evil doers had no right-standing relationship with Christ.
    To some thinking, those already doing any good deeds are as worthless as those who are doing evil, but, it was the evil doers, according to the words of Christ… that were told, ” Away from me… and not, “Come to me all you who are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest.”
    So, the actions of some evil doers are clearly seen as being treated differently by the Lord, according to his own teaching following religion does not qualify, but, pursuing an active ongoing relationship does.
    If that behavior, or any other behavior is labeled as works salvation by some here, then I do not judge their beliefs, but, the word of God certainly does challenges that premise.

    For by their fruit they are recognized, and that is the standard of knowing where the heart of the matter lies, producing fruit in keeping with the Spirit.

    Evil doers to me, are not in keeping with the Spirit.

    Do I see this evil only while in the flesh, or is it another type of vision, or discernment which only God provides?


  117. joycemb says:

    Gary yes those verses in scripture that talk about God actually rejecting some people because of their failure to follow His way are scary and hard for some to accept. Remember the old phrase “easy believism” ? I think now it is called “grace for all no matter what” because after all, God is love, right? Progressivism includes anyone no matter how they excuse sin.

    You know I wish sometimes that we could all just go on in our sin and HOPE for a good outcome, but then what would be the use of reading/ hearing about all the scriptures that warn about sin? The Bible would become a nice novel to read and share but with no power whatsoever for teaching Godly living, as Paul told Timothy. And Christ’s suffering would be a farce. And our religion would be in vain. Sad.

  118. jeff1 says:

    For those who are chosen to lead more is expected for unlike those who read the Bible and submit to its word people do follow like sheep. The falling away form trust in God here in Northern Ireland is happening here because of men of the cloth. The younger generation are asking how God could put Priests in positions of power that they could abuse children which means following religion is in vain. Like many of these younger generation I too was told to trust people in authority for they knew best so I followed like a sheep my leaders whom were not being led by Christ’s teaching but being both young and ignorant at the time followed like a sheep to the slaughter. You can not put an old head on young shoulders nor a young head on old shoulders I have discovered. There are people on this earth who lead and people who follow but sometimes I see that the ones who are following would make better leaders than those who claim to be chosen by God to lead. Those who have studied the Bible have knowledge that gives them discernment when false leaders are preaching but it is very different for those who are not taught. I am aware now that by not studying the Bible I risk loosing my way but having learned the hard way that there is many false teachers I am vigilant now when listen to Preachers.

  119. joycemb says:

    That’s great Viv! We all learn that way it seems and growing up we learn that leaders are also fallible -look at Moses-yet her perservered and tho he didn’t enter the promised land Joshua did and so do we if we follow obediently as best we can. We will never reach perfection but thank God we have a Savior Lord Jesus Christ who was and is the perfect sacrifice for our sins, if we repent.

    I once heard a preacher who stated his wife was in the front row with her Bible open and would tell him if he was going away from scripture. I love that picture of accountability to God and man for the Gospel. And the intimacy between mankind and God.

  120. oneg2dblu says:

    Yes, discernment is key to knowing when what you are hearing today, or being preached as sometimes over-reaching the boundaries set fast by the word.

    The word of God says that there are times when our tent posts need to be stretched, but, more than that, we all know that there must be a controlled by the Spirit growing of the size of our tent, as to not rip us apart in the process, as some who are preaching today clearly can do.

    Godly Discernment allows the listener to avoid causing their own peril through overstretching their boundaries, because those who not only know God’s Word, but also have been given the godly ears of discerning, for protecting themselves from being trapped or duped by false teaching, or running ahead on our own and then finding a coming to their senses that they need to dig deeper into the Word, literally, or through more directed prayers for finding where they should remain, or go.

    Like just stated, Moses knew that he had overstepped, and his boundaries where then set by hearing the word directly from God, as to where he could go, and no further.

    God does not remain silent in us about these areas of doubting what we hear, see, taste, or sense as being not right for us to tread upon in our current walk with Him.

    He alone can give us the feet of a deer to climb upon the heights.

    Be Blessed, Gary

  121. jeff1 says:

    I believe that is where I keep stumbling trying to reach perfection. I keep coming back to the Cross for if I focus on what I think God wants from me I get stressed and panic but as soon as I say to myself ‘It is finished my failures are at Calvary’ then I have peace of mind which to me anyway is better than understanding. I think we all have to make that choice according to our own walk and being weary of bad choices is my reason. I need to have peace within me in order to get on with life as I know it, for trusting God does not mean a carefree life since overcoming evil with good has always brought opposition from unseen forces.

  122. poohpity says:

    Amen! :-)

  123. oneg2dblu says:

    Perfection is not our goal while we are living in these earthly tents, but, getting closer and closer to knowing the difference between right and almost right, is exactly where discernment can lead us all well beyond our current imperfection.

    We sometimes forget that, “The Helper,” which is Divinely Given, is also for a reason.

    It is given to all those who will need help in their walk.

    To my knowledge we all qualify…

  124. narrowpathseeker says:

    Joyce thank you for the kind words…I don’t know about being a good example ….I mess up daily and much of my prayer time consists of asking for forgiveness and Help to do better….I just get a few things right once in awhile and that’s a great day for me.. ;-) .

  125. street says:

    gary said,”Perfection is not our goal while we are living in these earthly tents, but, getting closer and closer to knowing the difference between right and almost right, is exactly where discernment can lead us all well beyond our current imperfection.

    when you say this, it smack in the face of the command to be holy for I AM Holy? even though He said it prior to the resurrection. sure He said it while establishing a sacrificial system for sin. but it was still entered by faith. faith and His Word lead to a knowledge of Him and ourselves.

    i think our goal is to glorify God and enjoy Him.
    we do this by obeying the Son and producing the fruit of the Spirit. you have to remember Jesus did not enjoy all the things He did. i can remember many times He experienced emotions that were not joy.

    somewhere in there, the transaction is sealed with the Holy Spirit. the hard part is living. remember jonah? there is much hope for the children of God in that story where He comes for you because you are not doing right. or maybe job who was doing right and was having a little difficulty and God shows up to help him out. some how God sees us as Holy and will not let us go. what a Savior!

  126. jeff1 says:

    Thank you for this post Street. I tend to forget this about Jesus because of Him being special I tend to think it was easier for Him to be who He was but He had to walk the difficult walk. I think we need to remember that following Jesus is a difficult walk. My father would always say to me when I complained of why there was so much suffering and He would say you are in good company Jesus suffered. We would be no different to non believers if we did not suffer well for it is our faith in a better world to come and we have God’s promise on that not men’s feeble attempt to bring it about for in my humanness I sometimes forget whom is in charge. God’s reasons are exactly why it is in Him we should trust and not in anyone’s understanding for it is He and He alone whose reasons are pure.

  127. oneg2dblu says:

    street… thanks for doubling down on my statement about, “Our Goal” and that it is not about our achieving perfection while we live in these earthly tents.

    As you say, ” I think our goal is to Glorify God and enjoy Him.

    I fully agree.

    What better example could we show the ever listening, ever watching, ever testing, ever opposing world, then to make the best possible use of the God Given Discernment, given to us through the Gift of the Holy Spirit, that lives inside every Believer.

    How would the world ever see “anything different” about a Christ Follower, if we continue to make our wrong choices by not using the Gift of Discernment, or knowing the difference between what is Right, and what is Almost Right, or really making no holy judgments at all, by only being accepted by being Politically Correct, but still being just plain Wrong?

    How then do we look to the rest of the sinning world around us, with our upraised hands, “Praising Jesus,” yet, never judging knowing right from almost right?

    Oh yeah, that question has already been answered by many in this ever sinning world as they rightly say, “We see nothing but another, “Hypocrite!”

    There are way to many falsely taught church going people today who proudly call themselves,”Believers,” but in reality, in their daily walk there really is no apparent new life seen in the wrong choices they continue to make, and, unless the Evidence of Discernment, which truly bears fruit in keeping with the Holy Spirit is seen in them, then what do we say to the rest of the Sinning World that looks on and sees in us, No Change.

    “If Nothing Changes, Nothing Changes.”

    To me, so much of the Word of God is truly conditional, even our Eternal Security has conditions, for it must be based on. or founded upon, a believing faith in what is truly right, or using your word, “HOLY.”

    I know of Only One, who is truly Holy!

    Here’s one example of the many verses that I would equally consider as being very conditional…

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    “if my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then, will I hear from heaven and bless their land.”

    Be Blessed, Gary

  128. joycemb says:

    Good morning friends! I’ve been enjoying your comments this morning and have nothing to add but wanted to say I love the company I’m in here. I’ve been staying with my friend while the doctors still don’t know what’s wrong with her son but she has decided to take some legal actions on his behalf- long story but he’s still not able to even stand on his own and has gone steadily downhill the past year. Pray for a good outcome for this man (42).
    Blessings, Joyce

  129. poohpity says:

    A new song by Hillsong United;

    “Here Now (Madness)”

    Skies spin their dance
    Within Your breath
    Time runs its race
    Within Your hand

    And my mind runs wild
    To comprehend
    What no mind on earth
    Could understand

    Your ways are higher
    Your thoughts are wilder
    Love came like madness
    Poured out in blood – wash romance
    It makes no sense but this is grace
    And I know You’re with me in this place

    Here now
    All I know is I know that You are
    Here now
    Still my heart
    Let Your voice be all I hear now
    Spirit breathe
    Like the wind come have Your way
    Cause I know Your’re in this place

    Faith makes a fool
    Of what makes sense
    But grace found my heart
    Where logic ends

    When justice called
    For all my debts
    The Friend of sinners
    Came instead

    Here now
    All I know is I know that You are
    Here now
    Still my heart
    Let Your voice be all I hear now
    Spirit breathe
    Like the wind come have Your way

    Cause I know that You are here now
    Heart and soul
    God I know that You are here now
    Fix my eyes
    On the things that I can’t see now
    And all I see
    Is the glory of Your Name

  130. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    56F and clear here. Forecast to get to 83F.

    Thanks, Gary for the difference between what “they” are doing and what “we” are. And thank-you for the call to repentance and prayer — always welcome.

    How does a Jesus-follower escape the human condition? We do not escape, it seems to me. We are in it up to our eye-balls. As the famous philosopher from the Okeefenokee Swamp said, “We have met the enemy, and he is us.” (Pogo by Walt Kelly) When it comes to attending a church-full of hypocrites, who would want to go and be judged because we did?


  131. street says:

    dear gary all this conditional stuff you talk about is like building on sand. sooner or later circumstances will reveal this. do you remember when israel asked for a king like the worlds king’s? is this similar to a son asking for his inheritance before his father dies? the Father granted these request knowing what the outcome would be. in the end the Father gave us what we needed even though we don’t fully understand it all. His ways makes my head explode! He also makes His Word come alive! i think this is the abundant life Jesus was talking about.

    on a side note when using the word “we” who is we?

  132. jeff1 says:

    God knows that some of His followers have the faith, while others have hope and the greatest followers have love, combined they are many but make one body. For me it is not a contest about who is the greater but who is willing to sacrifice for the greater good! I have failed many times to fulfill this goal but will I ever stop trying? No! I believe God loves a trier!

    ‘Tis a lesson you should heed,
    If at first you don’t succeed,
    Try, try again;

    Then your courage should appear,
    For if you will persevere,
    You will conquer, never fear
    Try, try again;

    Once or twice, though you should fail,
    If you would at last prevail,
    Try, try again;

    If we strive,’tis no disgrace
    Though we do not win the race;
    What should you do in the case?
    Try, try again;

    If you find your task is hard,
    Time will bring you your reward,
    Try, try again;

    All that other folk can do.
    Why, with patience, should not you?
    Only keep this rule in view
    Try, try again.

  133. oneg2dblu says:

    street… I thought you would be above all that divisive tripe, but apparently I’m wrong.

    If you consider having, “Faith in Christ,” as nothing but sand, then there is no other place to take this conversation.

    On to the next point…

    As far as giving voice to your pointed little remark of, “who is we?”

    Who is we?

    Is it probably not the little piggy who ran all the way home saying, “Wee, wee, wee!”

    But, maybe it is those, who after spending everything on themselves, or wasting all on their wayward living, and then coming to their senses, and returning to the Father.

    That would probably be considered as a condition called, “Repentance.”

    We repent!

    Maybe, it is all those who must this condition, the Holy Spirit living in them and guiding them with all discernment.

    We have the Holy Spirit living in us!

    Maybe, it is those who are called by His Name… those who will seek His Face, and those who will pray, those who will turn from their wicked ways.

    But being a sand builder is “one condition,” that definitely does not in my eyes, qualify anyone I know of as being a We.

    We do not build upon sand!

    For that person would be a fool, according to scripture.

    We are not fools!

    We are His Possession!

    Be Blessed, Gary

  134. oneg2dblu says:

    Oops… typo “Maybe, it is all those who must (have) this condition, the Holy Spirit living in them first…, to truly be called, or considered, a Believer, or a we.

    But, we all know that!

  135. oneg2dblu says:

    Don’t we?

  136. poohpity says:

    Gary, looks like you read what street wrote, wrong again. street said “conditional stuff you talk about is like building on sand.” You said he said, “If you consider having, “Faith in Christ,” as nothing but sand, then there is no other place to take this conversation.” Are you able to understand the difference and see what often happens when someone’s words are twisted which frequently happens by you more often than not.

  137. poohpity says:

    Could it also be possible over the years with your accusations that you think we also say it is OK to continue in sin or that we do not believe in obedience rather than what we actually do believe and what we actually have said because we believe in the Gospel of Grace. I think it is not only possible but highly likely and more than obvious.

  138. jeff1 says:

    I think we have to look at our own experience in order to see another’s lack of discernment. When I was not discerning I was following false teachers. I was young and foolish then and there are many young people today following false teachers/false religions. I do not believe they realize this for when I was following I was ignorant as well as foolish. Will they listen, did I listen to my father?, No! I heard what I wanted to hear. It is when I was convicted of my hyprcrisy that I repented! I can easily fall back into my old way of thinking so I have to keep examinging myself to identify and in doing so turn away from it and receive God’s grace. Is this good for my soul? I believe so for I know how easy it is to fall into Satan’s ways and I also have patience with those not learned and with not the same discernment. Walking with God is examing myself more than others, having patience with those who still lack discernment and letting God lead me and not me trying to lead God! I have tried to run ahead many times and He keeps bringing me into line and I am so thankful for His rebuke, God has always our best intentions even when we do not always see it.

  139. SFDBWV says:

    Only have a minute to write and have learned Mart is having trouble with the site on his end as to why the subject is still up.

    Thinking about the last of Mart’s comment concerning having the confidence of living in the Spirit and knowing that no matter how many times we feel we aren’t that by asking again and again God is faithful to make His presence known in us.

    It is a comfort to know that no matter how many times we fall, God is reaching out His hand again and again to help us back up.


  140. poohpity says:

    Wow, Steve! Some really inspiring thoughts this morning. Don’t we have just a wonderful, forgiving, faithful God?

  141. street says:

    thanks steve! was wondering how to process marts last comment of beginning again and again. well this is a start. i only came up with day in an day out. sort of like repeated drudgery.

  142. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Agreeing over here with the trend of the conversation, focusing on Mart’s closing statement:

    “Am thinking— what a wonderful confidence, hope, and way to begin again, and again…”

    The Holy Spirit does not give up on us, but is ready to respond when anybody calls out to the Lord for help in trouble and strength to face and overcome failures — ours and those of others. The Spirit makes even us into the New Temple of the living God.

    Blessings all day,

  143. street says:

    gary i see your point. we understand that Jesus is the foundation that paul talks about. i guess i errored in the semantics. in other words building on top of the foundation should have been used. we can use different materials as mentioned in the Bible. some materials are better than others. each one builds according to his abilities.

    prayer request for Vacation Bible Schools going on all over the world this summer.

  144. joycemb says:

    Lamentations 3:22-23 is a favorite verse of mine.

  145. street says:

    gary when abraham offered his son isaac in obedience was it motivated by discernment or faith? sure in the New Testament we have more of what abraham was thinking, but he did what he did because he was convinced of who it was that told him to do it. remember what He did to sodomn? others can say they are doing God’s will, but time and discernment can tell us otherwise. it can not make us do what God wants. another difficult passage is when when God incites david to number the people, because His anger burned against the people. the end result was the purchase of ground where david sacrificed. today the former temple sits there. God wanted to dwell in the hearts of men but they would not see it.”we” had other ideas and God’s plan of redemption moves forward. oh to sit in His presents and pass the time with Him. got go He has put another day before me.

  146. foreverblessed says:

    Again and again….
    A few weeks ago Joyce Meyer was in the Netherlands, in Rotterdam, she talked about an interview she had had a few years ago, apparently a non religious person who was interested in a person that can draw so many people to an event.
    (And she did draw a lot of christians in Rotterdam, from many different denominations, it was a great Feast of Unity)
    The question was, what education she had in order to do these things. She answered that she was in the school of the Holy Spirit.
    Yes, she said, the school of the Holy Spirit! And you know what? When you take exams and you fail, you can do them over, and over, and over again.
    That’s how our God is, a great and gracious God.
    His love is forever Psalm 136:1,2,3,4,5,6.7

  147. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you Jeff, for your encouragement, that was very uplifting to me.
    I hope all of you are doing well, and are encouraged by each other, that we ARE the children of God, and because of who we ARE we are a blessing to others around us. It is so vital that we know what our identity is: a child of God, saved through Christ, the one we believe in.
    He is the one who is working in us, as long as we look up to Him.
    Look to me and be saved, Isa 45:22(KJV)

  148. oneg2dblu says:

    street.. thank you for trying to understand that there may be an unintentional misuse of words going on, or an occasional misunderstanding, and the result is that you are still able to find higher ground to work with.

    That shows discernment.

    To follow my point, I have noticed that you misuse the word presents, instead of using presence, and both uses can certainly be considered as being gifts.

    Although, some grace may been shown here by not correcting you, because your intended meaning seems to be understood anyhow.

    I have discerned that you might see the higher ground found in my taking this time to correct what may be unintended misuse of this word.

    To your question…

    I would say that Isaac acted in Obedience, and that was his Faith showing its life through his works.

    Showing much more than just having faith alone.

    It was a real life testing/proofing of his faith, a” God will provide lesson for us all” completed with the discernment that we must do our part to give our faith validity, which is only proven through its testing and the resulting evidence.

    For, Faith without works is dead, and faith that is not tested can not be trusted.

    Isaac proved both points by his obedient actions, and the results that came about because of his faith and the evidence, that the works were not done in vain.

    Be Blessed, Gary

  149. street says:

    gary said,”To follow my point, I have noticed that you misuse the word presents, instead of using presence, and both uses can certainly be considered as being gifts.”

    let me have some fun with this turn of words. you can not get into His presence without His presen”t” of the cross.

    living word vs. deadness of the law. i remind you the law was GRAND! thanks gary

    i think i read somewhere the giver is greater than the gift. Father and Son are really One. Jesus and Holy Spirit are One. i believe this is true you just can’t compare it to anything.

  150. oneg2dblu says:

    Who was the Giver of the Law other than the One True God, who is also the Living Word?
    None Greater!

  151. poohpity says:

    Gary, what kind of works show our faith?

  152. joycemb says:

    14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:14-17

  153. narrowpathseeker says:

    Joyce….excellent back up for works!!!

    Street, Gary, Steve….I truly love the way you guys can disagree so peaceably on some things and with humor to boot. It’s a great example for those looking on. May ALL here have a Blessed day.

  154. poohpity says:

    James 2:18 NLT

  155. poohpity says:

    Thank you Joyce for listing a few for Gary.

  156. SFDBWV says:

    I agree with Pearl, Joyce, that is a good example of “works”. Thank you as well Pearl for your kind words.

    Thank you also pooh for recognizing encouragement as this is what we all should always be doing here, encouraging one another and showing our Lord in all we say. Seeing how all we can really do here is “say”.

    I truly believe if we are living in the Spirit our lives will reflect it in everything we do, both big and especially little.

    Many of us are never going to be Billy Graham or Joyce Meyers as what they do is a special calling and empowerment from our Lord, but what all of can do is be kind to one another in all we do. It is in that way that we are doing the “works” we are so concerned about.

    It is as Joyce pointed out by Scripture that we are to feed the hungry and cloth the poor, but these are just examples of how we are to be towards our fellow human beings.

    Even something as small as opening a door for someone is showing concern/love for that individual.

    If I might offer a little advice, don’t overly concern yourself with “works” just live in the Spirit and you will find that your actions will not only reflect your heart, but also your intentions and your obedience to Jesus’ commandment to love one another will be fulfilled.

    Living in the Spirit *is* faith in action.


  157. poohpity says:

    Steve, as to your comment “Our Daily Bread” today addressed that very issue with the example of Mary and Martha.

  158. joycemb says:

    I know some have a hard time with James as he really got to the nitty gritty of how to live out out faith/grace but since it was included in the canon we must find it’s place in the grand scheme of things, I believe, to stay true to the message of our great God.

    Pearl I was thinking the same thing yesterday, that assuming Street is male also men do have a more often pragmatic approach without letting their feelings get too much involved
    In their thought processes. Probably why men make great leaders in the world. God made man first for good reason I believe. Not that they are better but that they are often stronger not only physically but stamina wise also. Wow am I off topic this morning;-)
    Have a blessed day all! Joyce

  159. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh asked… what kind of works show our faith?

    For me, in a word, “Obedience.”

    Obedience to God’s Word is the greatest example of showing a trusting faith in God.

    But don’t take my word on this, takes the Lord’s.

    Matthew 6:33
    “But, seek first his kingdom, and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.”

    Be Blessed, Gary

  160. poohpity says:

    Are you referring to obedience to the law? That is not faith at all, it is depending on the flesh. (Romans 3:20 NLT; Romans 3:28; 1 Cor 15:56; Gal 2:16)

  161. oneg2dblu says:

    joyce… pragmatic?

    Perhaps for others here, the more learned perhaps.

    But, no chance for me though, because my emotions are directly linked to most of my responses for they show what is coming out of me, both in my heart and my soul, warts and all.

    To the rest of the viewing audience here…

    Do I always first weight out what I know I feel I must say, when only a half truth is spoken here, or some other questionable, or debatable word, is spoken as the only way of thinking?

    Does the pragmatic mindset always weight out, or worry about how the words it must speak are then received, or rejected,
    even to the point that they remain silent, knowing now that one might find himself in the belly of a whale for three days, if he avoids doing what he hears being directed in his spirit?

    Okay, that was extreme.

    I’m not speaking about the flesh parts of us here, which when in control, then chooses to use personal abusive labels when its host feels so attacked.

    But I am speaking to the more discerning part within every believer, that which is controlled by the Spirit when it is prompted to speak out.

    Does one not make a stand today, claiming themselves to be a peace maker instead, but really only being P.C., as to not upset the masses?

    I know what many times causes me to speak out, but am many times really surprised to see the direct opposite response found in a clearly devaluing reply back, as if that is some worthy type of defensive posture, as the only effect taken by some here who find only a personal rebuke in my words, thinking they are always directed at them personally, and many times their seeking a constant defending which seems to be the only chosen effect upon them.

    Why would we not seek to find, his kingdom, and his righteousness, where there are certainly other possible choices?

    Be Blessed,


  162. joycemb says:

    Gary, sorry, I knew the word pragmatic wasn’t exactly the word I wanted but I didn’t mean to offend. Will you forgive me?

  163. oneg2dblu says:

    Oh well, I’ll just have to keep on praying and trying to understand where others are coming from, because to me, failure is not an option when you are truly following the right Spirit.

    To me, the right Spirit displays in us the Renewing of the Mind through how we act, through application of the Word, if you will.

    If you will not act accordingly or obediently to the Word, then your faith is truly without works, or dead!


  164. oneg2dblu says:

    joyce… there was no offense taken personally by me, only me being me. :0
    Perhaps you are more pragmatic than I. :)

    I wish that pragmatism was a strong point for me, for it certainly produces a lot less rebuttal.

    But, lively conversation is always more stimulating and comforting, and your words were certainly not wrongly placed, or ugly.


  165. joycemb says:

    Speaking of warts…

    My warts are called low self-esteem mostly. Along with greed, avarice, sloth and a whole host of others. It took me a while to begin to feel comfortable here. I posted very timidly at first and apologized all the time. Though mostly my apologies were based in the (unknowing) viewpoint of ” I am sorry I exist and am sure to offend because I am such a wretched person,” but being in therapy since I was 31 until a c couple years ago I learned to be brave, trust God, and that life IS awful and it WILL hurt you. Lot of money spent to learn those things, ha,

    Now I must say I have learned I am just as ‘normal’ as everyone else here, but just as individual in my own strengths, gifts, and talents; and that’s a good thing;-)

    I have also learned I can get angry easily when pricked or kicked or whatever, just as easily as everyone else can in varying degrees. Yes we are Christ’s Body in the flesh! See how patient He is with us! Whew. There’s NOTHING like Him. God has shielded me for a long time from dangers and perils and for that I am so grateful, but He lovingly doesn’t shield me from myself so that I can become more like Him.

    I don’t know where I’m at now so will close for now. Thank you friends for sharing yourselves with me. Bless you all.

  166. oneg2dblu says:

    pooh… asked, “Gary, what kind of works show our faith?”

    I gave my answer, “Obedience to God’s Word is the greatest example of showing a trusting faith in God.”

    Others posted supporting verse and you gave them a quick response.

    In keeping the theme of obedience, I referenced a direct word from the Lord Our God found in Matthew 6:33, as part of my answer.

    I was thinking that, Isaac was obeying the very Word of God he was given, when he gathered up some wood and took his only son up on the mountain to obediently make a God-directed Sacrifice.

    He was both trusting God, and showing his Faith through his obedient actions.

    You apparently can not see my point.

    So then…

    You ask me, “Are you referring to obedience to the law?”

    Then go on to say, “That is not faith at all that is depending on the flesh.”

    I do not see, “Obedience to God’s Word,” as depending on the flesh, but somehow you seem to want to make that connection.

    Obedience to me is a form of sacrifice, for it goes directly against our very disobedient flesh.

    Now, I’ll ask you…

    Was there any law in the Word of God being tested or playing out, or in practice back then, when Isaac was obediently going to make a sacrifice of his only son to the Lord?

    Which law or laws would you then say Isaac would ignore/apply to make your point about Isaac’s act of obedience was really just a depending on his flesh?


  167. SFDBWV says:

    I just popped in for a look as I usually have no time at the computer after the mornings on Saturday and Sunday. What I noticed Gary is that twice you have confused Isaac for Abraham.

    I just thought you may want to know.


  168. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… Thanks, I think!
    Ah the senior moments in full glory…

  169. oneg2dblu says:

    Yes, I have! More than once I have stumbled, been humbled, and more than once I can thank a brother for giving a helping hand.

  170. foreverblessed says:

    I left last night with Joyce posting James 2:14-17
    And I kept thinking about 1 Cor 13:3
    If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    everything we do should be done in love, God is love, His whole way of Being is love. Everything we do should be motivated by Love. If that is not what makes us going “we gain nothing”.
    So where does that love come from: From God, and He gives it to us, as we look up to Him, and His Spirit changes our heart as we grow and grow more like Him.
    As we do more and more what He told us in the Gospels, for instance Matt 5,6,7

    Everything Jesus did unto us, we do to others, that is the main thing.

    But it starts with Christ loving us, and we loving Christ, and from there we go.
    (this sounds like Bill, who would mention love all the time…)
    We walk in faith, If we have no works, I would say, check out on your faith. Is it really strong or a bit weak, ask for more:
    God I believe, help me in my unbelief.

  171. oneg2dblu says:

    foreverblessed… good thoughts.

    To me, your thoughts address the difference between works of the flesh, and works of the spirit done in love with the spirit leading, and the other done in an effort to bring about an acknowledgement of self, with the flesh leading.

    Self says, “I did this, and I did that, look at me how good I am.”

    But, where the spirit led person works, or obediently doses their part, their work which is done in His Love always seems to shine on Him instead.

    “Look what my Lord has allowed us to do, to love and share what we can, when we can, to serve when we get to, to give out of love, and to do it all without any preconceived expectations of what the flesh will gain.

    An attitude of gratitude serves us all better, then a look at me, how hard I have to work.

    I think Martha and Mary were both doing a loving thing, but each had a different attitude working in them.

    Christ saw to the heart of the matter in the way they each expressed themselves.

    Be Blessed, Gary

  172. joycemb says:

    I wanted to share an answer to prayer for me this week. Due to the years of abuse and the subsequent PTSD I am having trouble holding it together lately, and am feeling more and more stress. I had to retire early because of it, and even though I’m not working little things still set it off. Well, earlier this week I was feeling especially weak but the Lord called me to do something extraordinary and as I asked Him for help, I felt the strength return to my body and was able to drive 300 miles (which I haven’t done for almost a year now), and be a support for a friend who called me in tears asking for my presence. As strength as provided by Him filled my body I said, Yes Lord, I can do this! And I did! Totally in His strength. To God be the glory, if we call on Him and ask, He will give us all good things; as Mart posted on this subject. Yes, the Holy Spirit is real and willing to provided supernatural strength when needed! Ask and you will receive, knock and the door shall be opened to eternal life. It’s a faith that is ever growing and evolving, even into our older age. Bless God.

  173. SFDBWV says:

    Certainly hoping that “Our Daily Bread Ministries” tech staff can get BTA’s problem fixed today so Mart can post. I know how frustrating it is when I can’t for any reason.

    Gary you are welcome for my little help. It reminded me of when someone has a piece of food like spinach stuck in their front teeth and they keep on smiling until someone points out the matter. Stumble and humble are indeed two good words that go together. I am glad to have been of service to you.

    Joyce I am very happy to read of your ability to find the strength to accomplish the task set before you. That being the anointing power of our Lord in order to accomplish “His” will. Though we should get accustomed to it, we are always pleasantly surprised when we receive His help and I think He is always pleased that we thank Him for it.

    Foreverblessed I too miss Bill’s posts, I guess writing his book is absorbing his energies.
    Faith is also a gift from God and it seems like all things He does, He gives us just enough to fulfill our need for the moment. When and if we need more He is faithful to provide.

    Praying all of you have a good day.


  174. jeff1 says:

    I find the battle hardest when it comes to loving my enemies, God help me to let go of any prejudices that I have and let you be the judge of all for in judging my enemies I am sinning against you Lord whose justice is to show mercy for you alone know the hearts of men.

  175. foreverblessed says:

    Joy, that was awesome! Great! Thanks for sharing.
    The Holy Spirit leading us, in ways beyond our imagination.
    Sometimes our days are filled with wonder, but when the days seems a drudge, then it counts that we still obediently follow His will in our normal life. These times are great in our growth in the Spirit Life of Jesus Christ.

    It is the Holy Spirit guiding us.
    When I go to church, we sing songs for 45 minutes, and often it is asked, if someone gets a message from God, they can say it out loud. We praise God, and focus on Jesus (who is God), we worship Him, and our ears are open to what He shows to us.
    Yesterday a lady gave a word that God is always around us, even if we do not feel it. That He cares for us, and God asks us to willingly surrender to Him and trust Him more and more completely in our daily life, from day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute.

    He Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. is what Jesus said in John

    Now I was reading about the God calling book, that many christians call it channeling, and warn against it.
    I was thinking, these ladies, the two listeners, did not make their minds blank, but they focused on Jesus, and waited.
    Why would we call it channeling? If we pray, to God, and we get a message from Him,like Joyce knew she had to go to that lady, 300 miles away, why call it channeling?
    Anyway, just some thoughts on the work of the Holy Spirit.

  176. poohpity says:

    Steve, just out of curiosity did Mart say the problems were technical in nature or maybe they are of an internal or spiritual nature like just not wanting to write any more?

  177. SFDBWV says:

    Pooh, Mart told me of his technical problem posting. I hope this answers your question and satisfies your curiosity.


  178. poohpity says:

    Thank you. I wish it were only that easy to satisfy my curiosity. :-) Inquiring minds want to gain understanding. You and I have both been here for so long and even the people reading has gone from 1-2 hundred to about 20 and the posts have gotten less and less. It seems sometimes a ministry can run it’s course that was where the curiosity was coming from but again thank you for answering my question.

  179. SFDBWV says:

    Viv, I am sure you are not alone in having difficulty loving an enemy.

    People can say they do, but I personally doubt that too many actually do.

    I am always amused at Paul telling us that by praying for our enemies we are pouring coals of fire on them.

    Getting a mental picture of someone burning alive in the hot coals of a fire doesn’t look like what I consider love.

    However using the concept that sometimes we feel the heat of a sermon concerning some matter we may be convicted of I can better understand what Paul may be alluding to.

    So using that view I can see that perhaps by praying for an enemy God will intensify the conviction of their hearts, like a very hot fire.

    It is no small wonder that some people become hermits and reclusive so as to stay away from the people of the world that evokes anger or hatred in them.

    Life isn’t easy and I suppose it isn’t supposed to be if we are to grow in the Spirit.


  180. SFDBWV says:

    Pooh you are quite correct, you and I have been here a long time and have watched BTA dwindle in size and it has been often stated that it has to be tiresome for Mart.

    He hopes we can carry on a conversation of meaning with ourselves that don’t always need his interaction as mediator, but rather as the friend he is to us all.

    He like any of us has a life filled with the simple complications of living and like us all need prayer for each of our wellbeing.

    Pray for Mart and for each of us here and be earnest in asking for the best God can do for him and all of us.

    I ran out of my available time an hour ago…Bye.


  181. poohpity says:

    Yes, I pray for Mart often. I came across this this AM and change helps us grow in our relationship with the Lord rather than sticking to what we have always done. It helped me to maybe seek a new direction.

    “If you believe in Jesus, you are not to spend all your time in the calm waters just inside the harbor, always tied to the dock. You have to get out past the harbor into the great depths of God, and begin to know things for yourself–begin to have spiritual discernment. When you know that you should do something and you do it, immediately you know more. Examine where you have become sluggish, where you began losing interest spiritually, and you will find that it goes back to a point where you did not do something you knew you should do.” –Oswald Chambers

  182. street says:

    poo said,”You and I have both been here for so long and even the people reading has gone from 1-2 hundred to about 20 and the posts have gotten less and less. It seems sometimes a ministry can run it’s course that was where the curiosity was coming from but again thank you for answering my question.”

    mart said,
    And now a new day had dawned. In the months and years to come, messengers like Paul would help them to live out, and even to “normalize” an inexhaustible mystery of what it would mean to walk, live, pray, love— sharing life together in the Spirit (Romans 8:9).

  183. poohpity says:

    Yes sometimes what we read or how we read something may not be what has actually been said.

  184. joycemb says:

    Matthew 5:23-24
    23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

    Starting anew doesn’t mean forgetting but reconciling which is a process. According to these scriptures how does it start? Who does it start with? Just because the offended has forgiven there is also action the offender must take to be right with God and man.

  185. oneg2dblu says:

    joycemb… great praise report.
    Thanks for sharing.

    “First go and be reconciled to them: then come and offer your gift.”

    I tried that with a brother back in 2010, and to this day, no reconciliation has ever come about. I left it with the Lord.

    I would think it would take both parties coming together to be fully reconciled, and that has never happened.

    What if the other party does not reconcile with you, but continues to harbor their ill will?

    Then, at least you have done your part, you have been obedient to the word, and you are free to go to the alter and place both your gift and your plea before the Lord, giving both to Him, and letting the consequences be the Lord’s.

    It is true that I no longer obsess over praying about reconciliation between that brother and myself, for I have already rent my heart and been released of that burden in my spirit.

    I can not worry about things that are beyond my best effort to reconcile, I can live however, with the obvious darkening in this world around us, knowing where my light comes from, and where the darkness finds its place, and those two things can not be reconciled when we desire them to be.

    Until the Lord brings all to their knees, where every knee shall bow, and every mouth confesses, that Jesus Christ is Lord.

    Until then, we can find our rest in knowing, All things are in His Hands.
    Be Blessed, Gary

  186. jeff1 says:

    Thank you for kind words Steve for I do not wish bad things to happen my enemies nor do I expect them to change their beliefs but to turn away from wrong doing.
    You are so right Joyce starting new is a process and it can be a slow one for old hurts and I talk from experience as well as witnessing are difficult to overcome when people seem to be making little effort to make them right. Endurance comes by patience which is what I believe God is teaching me for I sometimes want to rush the process but it has to be in God’s time and not in mine. I am not on this blog very long but I have benefitted greatly from all your knowledge, experience and spiritual guidance that you have all gained over the years. Words of encouragement are sometimes all a person needs to help them through a day! I have learned to take one day at a time and would recommend it when difficulties arise. I also try to think of other times that God has brought me through and I always wonder why I am such a doubting Thomas, not doubting God’s existence but in how He brings me through difficulties when He has done it so many times in the past. Lord continue to strengthen my faith so that I have no thoughts which can steal the joy I have in knowing your presence.

  187. poohpity says:

    We had a special speaker yesterday at church who was teaching about the encounter between Jesus and the woman at the well. How through guiding the woman to examine her own life she grew to understand who it was she was talking to. Even though she was a despised Samaritan they believed the Messiah would come too. Jesus taught that worshiping God could only come through the help of the Holy Spirit not in the right place or doing the right things. Jesus took that detour to go through that town it seems especially for the encounters that followed rather than the normal path the Jews did around and over the Jordon way away from Samaria.

  188. joycemb says:

    Gary I know how hard and grievous it can be when there is dissention. Sometimes the best action we can do is to dissociate ourselves from them in order to maintain peace.
    Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

  189. joycemb says:

    Steve, Isaiah 6:7 Interesting that the burning coal took away guilt and sin. There’s a lot of power in reconciliation, repentance, and forgiveness.

  190. joycemb says:

    But if one is unaware of their sin, how can they seek forgiveness? God IS a Gentleman. He doesn’t force Himself on anyone at all.

  191. joycemb says:

    Street I would love to hear your thoughts on forgiveness, repentance, and reconciliation while we wait for a new post from Mart.

  192. street says:

    joycemb it doesn’t matter what i think about forgiveness, repentance, and reconciliation… it’s the Promises and Word of God that have the final say in the matter.

    i do know they are difficult, expensive, and oh so generousness. if it produces love mission accomplished.
    just thinking.

  193. poohpity says:

    I think most(John 16:8) everyone is aware of their sin or wrong doing. I think awareness is not the problem, the problems seem to come by making excuses or blaming it on others or justifying/rationalizing it or covering it up with some substance(alcohol, drugs, food, shopping, porn, sex, excessive activity) or always looking for it in others so one does not have to admit to it in their own lives. Lacking faith/trust in God and what He is able to do in peoples lives even seeing every hidden thing within a heart, is what seems to make some think that it is their job to convict others of sin.

  194. SFDBWV says:

    Joyce those first couple years after Matthew was injured and his mother died I started a little reference list in a note pad of Bible verses. It turned into being a small booklet.

    Much of what I had written down were verses from Isaiah. I think because of the richness of both promise and power written there that God used to comfort, encourage and inform me with.

    Much of what Paul and Jesus have to say is rooted in the OT and it’s not surprising as the Torah was and is much more than just a collection of books to the Jew, but rather their history their purpose and their life.

    If only the Christian would view their Christianity in that same light, everything they would say and do would reflect what it is to live in the Spirit.

    Thank you for the reference, I enjoyed the journey.


  195. Mart DeHaan says:

    Sorry, it has taken so long for me to post. Thanks for keeping the conversation going. As of Steve’s post an hour ago, I hesitate to break in. But finally got help yesterday in fixing a computer issue that had “locked me out of posting” or even commenting… :-)

  196. jeff1 says:

    I agree Pooh, my Country is a prime example of blaming. We cannot move forward because it keeps raising its ugly head. Who did what to whom and the problem is that there is truth in what each side are saying. Its why only the next generation can move our Country forward because they are coming from a different perspective than we are and being young they want to make the peace process work for them while the older ones are busy playing the blame game. The biggest offenders as I see it are the Politicians as they are all battling for power and it is in their interests to keep people fueding. In my personal life my failures came because of lack of self esteem and being guided by false teachers. In the end I ended up turning to vices rather than to God. I still battle those addictions today. Joyce you are right God does not force Himself on anyone but many still have God’s spirit even if they do not know it. I remember two men saying to me some years back when I was very young, both where soldiers, one was black and the other white. One said to me I do not follow a religion but I do believe in God and that is enough for me. The other told me he felt nearer to God when he went fishing than in Church. I at that time did not agree as I felt it was necessary to go to Church to follow God. It has taken me a lifetime to understand what these men where saying to me and I now believe these two men where filled with God’s spirit every much as I was. God does work in mysterious ways and I need to realize that or I will keep making the same mistakes and fail to see God’s presence in others because I am blinded by my own prejudices. I realize now that God does not demand that I go to Church but if it works for me then I should do it, likewise if another feels nearer to God fishing then let him do that. We are all different and God does not demand that we do things the same that is our small mindedness towards others that demand they do what we do without us knowing whether God minds or not for we speak for God when we would be better keeping our mouths shut. God is well able to speak to others hearts just like He speaks to mine and knows the other person more personally than I know them so why do I persume to tell them anything they do not already know through the spirit that dwells in them as much as it dwells in me.

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