Text Size: Zoom In



Flickr Photo by Stevesheriw

Over the last few months, I’ve returned occasionally to read a few more pages in The Ragamuffin Gospel. For some reason, I have not found it to be one of those books that I can’t put down…

Written in 1990 by Brennan Manning, it reflects the findings of a Franciscan Priest who discovered in his own alcoholism the Father every child needs. In Manning’s words,

“Along the way I opted for slavery and lost the desire for freedom. I loved my captivity and imprisoned myself in the desire for things I hated. I hardened my heart against true love. I abandoned prayer and took flight from the simple sacredness of my life.”

Yet looking back, the author who has helped so many by his honesty goes on to write, “None of my failures in faithfulness have proved terminal. Again and again radical grace has gripped me in the depths of my being, brought me to accept ownership of my infidelities, and led me back to the fifth step of the AA program: “Acknowledge to God, another human being, and myself the exact nature of my wrongdoing.” The forgiveness of God is gratuitous liberation from guilt. Paradoxically, the conviction of personal sinfulness becomes the occasion of encounter with the merciful love of the redeeming God.”

By reflecting on his own struggles in light of Jesus’ life-saving story of “The Prodigal Son”, Manning, explores again and again the wonder in which he says things like,

“When Jesus forgave the sins of the paralytic, some scribes thought to themselves, “Who but God can forgive sins?” (Mark 2:7). How enlightened they were in their blindness! Only God knows how to pardon. Our clumsy human attempts at forgiveness often create more problems than they solve. In condescending fashion we crush and humiliate the sinner with our unbearable largesse. He may feel forgiven but utterly bereft of reassurance, consolation, and encouragement. Only God knows how to pardon and put all four together. The prodigal’s father said, in effect, “Hush, child. I don’t need to know where you’ve been or what you’ve been up to.”

Maybe thoughts like that cause me to keep putting the book down… and wondering at what point such characterizations of the grace and love of God… are too good to be true.

Vote on whether you think this post is something you'll be thinking about:
Vote This Post DownVote This Post Up (No Ratings Yet)

109 Responses to “Father?”

  1. poohpity says:

    I think the Father already knows such things but for us to admit to those wrongs we come to an agreement with Him to remember exactly who we are and what He has done. I do not mean to be chained down by them but to release them and have a clean slate in order to start each day fresh and new, well that is if one believes in the forgiveness we have been given at the Cross.

    I often thought that pastor’s do not often admit to their wrong doings and it leads to people worshiping them for what they are not rather than who they really are then they will point people to the Lord for that worship.

    I read a book like that recently called, “The Power of Right Believing” it took sometime to read it also because it seemed also to be to good to be true. But I compared it with scripture and found that what he was saying was something I under the shadow of religiosity had forgotten and needed to be rediscovered. Just like Sid Buzzell says, “Truth discovered is more powerful than truth taught.”

  2. lovely says:

    Amen to this post spoke about the whole salvation plan of God.Grace is free that man think its too good to be true because we were taught that one needs to repay when you do something wrong.that’s y when we come to know Christ that old thinking have to be changed.Sin actually is not do much what we do but the state we re in. Cause Adam already took on Satan s nature when he sin at the garden before the 10 commandments were given.Therefore everyone born into this world has that nature , we’re all suffering the effects of this(sickness ,injustice evilness). Thanks be to God He provided a way out ..the payments are already made at the cross.(healing,restoration,abundant life) Ephesians 2:8 for by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God .We don’t work for a gift.now our job is to believe…

  3. joycemb says:

    Thank you Mart. I actually gave this book to a lapsed Christian preacher turned alcoholic just a few weeks ago, my prayer being he finds grace to help in time of need. He began attending AA and is hopeful once again; actually trying to start a Christian exercise program in the assisted living facility I just moved from. We are FB friends now even though I have moved away. Such a blessed God we serve because of His great love and faithfulness to all of us sinners.

    I first read this book when I discovered I could not live up to all the preaching of the “thou shalt nots” in my church. A ragamuffin I sure was as I felt like Manning says, “beat up and burnt out by religion”. I return to it every few years for a ‘tune up’. It just feels too good to be true doesn’t it Mart? Why do we make grace so hard? Must be why we call it AMAZING!

  4. joycemb says:

    I should say ‘some of us’ meaning the body collective not everyone though.

  5. SFDBWV says:

    One of the news stories highlighted this morning is an attempt to kill “Jihadi John” the cowardly murder who was filmed beheading unarmed and bound hostages for the glory of his religion of death.

    Knowing of the circumstances of this man’s sickness and his guilt I am left to look at this from the perspective of Mart’s subject.

    I am angered and even enraged at the actions of these cowards, but am told that I am to forgive even them if I am expected to be forgiven.

    Mart asks if such characterizations, given in the paragraph he copied, of the grace and love of God are too good to be true.

    I am so very pleased to leave to God the ability to exact perfect justice and perfect forgiveness, because the matter becomes too confusing for me at times. In fact the whole matter becomes so overwhelming for me that only God could take something that sounds too good to be true and make it so. Because our skeptical jaded and even experienced minds causes us to be suspicious of a promise that sounds too good to be true.

    41 degrees, windy with the threat of some snow tonight.


  6. SFDBWV says:

    The story of the “Prodigal Son” connects in spirit to another story in Daniel about Nebuchadnezzar. At a time when God took his mind from him and made him eat grass like a beast of the field.

    But God returned his mind to him and when He did, Nebuchadnezzar gave glory to God for showing him His power and might and worshiped Him as the one true God.

    In the story of the Prodigal Son though it would seem that it was the son who made the bad decision to leave the comfort and security of his father’s holdings and inanely waste away all he had finding himself at the end of his hope he realized his folly and his better senses returned to him.

    Now in the story in Daniel it was God who *took* Nebuchadnezzar’s senses from him and then returned them to him after the lesson was learned. But in the story of the Prodigal Son it was the son’s willful decision to leave as well as return to his father.

    Does the story omit God?

    If we apply the story of the Prodigal Son to any of our own circumstances in life we usually credit God with tugging at our hearts to return to Him.

    I think that God is always in the equation of every circumstance of every person.

    So it comes down to this, when a person drifts away from God, has God, like with the story of Nebuchadnezzar, permitted it or even orchestrated it for His design and purpose to be exacted or as in the story of the Prodigal Son is it entirely the will of the individual that makes the decisions apart from God’s urgings?

    How would we ever know unless it was we who have lived through the experience?

    This could be nothing we could ever know about another person from observing their life at any segment of it.

    So as always it comes down to trusting God and believing He has everyone’s best interests in mind even if we don’t see it.


  7. joycemb says:

    Hi Steve,
    Romans 11:32 comes to mind reading your thoughts: For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

    I like your thoughts. Makes me understand that even though we think we are drifted away from God, maybe He is still just as near as He was before. Very pleasant thoughts.

    I at one time attended monthly international women’s meetings that were sponsored by a specific denomination, until a speaker said that if we disobey God he will put us on a shelf and never use us again. That crippled me a bit for a long while yet it made me pursue and desire Him that much more.

    It’s so nice to know that God is so much bigger than our thoughts, opinions, and perceptions even. Harder to wrap my head around but of course can I ever know everything about God? No. But that God is love and grace and mercy is more than enough to know for now I think.

    Happy belated veterans day Steve. I’m sure you were busy yesterday!

  8. remarutho says:

    Good Day BTA Friends —

    Mart, I agree with what you write:

    “Our clumsy human attempts at forgiveness often create more problems than they solve. In condescending fashion we crush and humiliate the sinner with our unbearable largesse. He may feel forgiven but utterly bereft of reassurance, consolation, and encouragement.

    Only God knows how to pardon and put all four together. The prodigal’s father said, in effect, ‘Hush, child. I don’t need to know where you’ve been or what you’ve been up to.’”

    By our heavenly Father’s holy love we are given the four blessings you mention —

    forgiveness —
    reassurance —
    consolation —
    and encouragement.

    In God’s presence we are transformed as God’s children, made whole and welcomed home.


    PS Weeping and praying for the families of the dead and maimed in Paris as Saturday dawns.

    54F with wind and rain here.

  9. SFDBWV says:

    It is heard that the three “great” religions of the world all come from Abraham’s experience with his “God”.

    If you look at these three religions, what you see are that there are actually only two and of the two, though from a common ancestor, there are both similarities and vast differences.

    Both or all three claim to worship the same “Father” the one all three call “God”.

    We amateur theologians all believe that God sees all knows all, so of “the three great religions” of the world which one reflects His will and personality? Which of the three is He listening to as a father listens to his children. Even though he hears all the others is He ignoring one over the other?

    Is only one of these religions “legitimate” and the others “Illegitimate”?

    Judaism refers to the “Torah” for the testimony of God, Christianity refers to the “Torah” as well as the Gospel of Jesus of Nazareth as being the testimony of God. But what about the followers of Islam? Where is their testimony of God found?

    Because Abraham had two sons the descendants of each make a claim to be the legitimate heirs of their earthly as well as their heavenly “Father”.

    The descendants of Ishmael claim that because the descendants of Isaac failed in their calling to present God they were chosen to be the true representatives of God and that the “Torah” was altered to show favoritism to the linage of Abraham to Isaac to Jacob and on.

    Though they legitimize the existence of Jesus of Nazareth as being a Prophet they deny He is the Son of God.

    All religions of the world are enemies of Islam and considered to be “infidels” or unbelievers and worthy of death.

    God the Father shown through Judaism is a God of justice, but also of mercy, God the Father shown through Jesus of Nazareth is shown as a God of sacrificial love, full of mercy and grace.

    Israel prospers in a sea of poverty, Christianity made the world a better place to live for everyone including those who denied Jesus as Lord.

    There can be no clearer difference between the evidence of these religions in the lives of their followers. Is it because the “Father” favors one over the other or because one reflects the nature of the “father” in their lives and the other does not?

    In the end of all things our “Father” will put His house back in order, all we can do is trust we have made the right choice in life as to which is the true nature of God and which is not.

    “As for me and my house we will serve the Lord” That being the Lord Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah, the Son of God and one true representative of the Father.

    33 cloudy and thankfully no snow.


  10. remarutho says:

    Morning All —

    Steve, it seems worthwhile to mention (though I am no great expert on Islam) that Muslims claim Mohammed is the “true prophet of Allah”. That is a huge departure from the Torah — and diminishes the impact of the Gospels. Muslims revere the Koran over the anointed and inspired Scriptures mentioned.

    The “Islamist” groups who are working to establish a caliphate in Syria/Iraq have no notion of the Torah, the Gospels or the Koran in my opinion. News reports say this morning that 128 persons are known dead in Paris, France at the hands of these “Islamists”.

    Without great repentance and answering charges of murder and crimes against humanity, the sons of Ishmael now in the news are not even in the house you mention: God’s house.

    Come Lord Jesus.


    54F with showers here

  11. poohpity says:

    A majority of religions even in Christendom seem to be dependent on self righteousness. Going to any lengths to act in manner to earn rights to be near God. I think that is why the Priest was saying our forgiveness can be given in a condescending manner as if now another meets our standards rather than the recognition of all hearts before God. Comparing ourselves not to others but how we really are before God.

    It seems in all Jesus’ parables in Luke 15 speaking of the joy in the lost being found to the care of the Father it takes away any thoughts of earning a place near God from what we have done or are currently doing or will do in the future to the focus of who God is and what He has done. It seems only then can we discover how truly amazing God’s grace and love are.

    I pray for those who are perpetrating these horrible crimes against humanity that one day they will see that they can not earn their way to heaven by the actions they are taking but only one way through Jesus. That each one no matter what they have done can receive the pure forgiveness of God.

  12. remarutho says:

    Dear All —

    Am struck by how apt the ODB message for today is! Hezekiah prayed in Jerusalem and God answered in a mighty way. Prayer and seeking God’s perfect will bring great change to our world.

    I wonder this grey morning whether the supposed “nation” conceived out of evil intentions will implode by strife from within. Sennacherib was assassinated as he was worshiping. Stranger things have come to pass.

    Seems to me at such a future time, the peoples now in the grips of the power and terror of the so-called “Islamic state” will be free to seek the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ — and receive the abundant mercy Brennan Manning describes.

    Smiled as I read the quote from the Finnish patriot: “Where will we find room to bury them all?”

    God is very great!


  13. poohpity says:

    Do people who wish evil on those who are doing evil make one any better in anyway?

  14. poohpity says:

    Let me rephrase that; Does wishing evil on those who do evil make us any different than them?

  15. jeff1 says:

    I do not wish evil on them but how do you live in peace with those who do not wish to let others live who do not share their views. Most decent human beings manage to live in this world sharing different religions and different politics without causing the carnage that terrorists cause. Is it wrong to want these people to be held to account for their actions? We have all different beliefs but we accept the political process whether it is our view or not because living in a democracy means accepting that which works against us as well as that which works for us.

    Wanting justice is a far cry from wishing evil and if you give way to terrorist then are you defending the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Satan?

  16. joycemb says:

    Viv your post reminded me of what Micah the prophet said in 6:8,

    No, O people, the LORD has told you what is good, and this is what he requires of you: to do what is right, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
    (New Living Translation)

    As for how others act the only true peace we can have is by looking to Jesus for that peace that passes all understanding. Peace even in the midst of evil. Prayer is the weapon we use against the enemy, whatever way, shape or form that takes. Prayer pushes the enemy back.

    Those Christians who work in the military, penal system, courts etc, know that their very presence as God’s army depends not on their might so much as their reliance on the God they serve. Reliance for when to shoot, when to convict, when to separate, when to jail or even remove someone for their own safety. It can get complicated but the goal is mercy and rehabilitation of the enemy. That’s my take on the scripture. We are called to do what is right, be merciful to enemies of God and to ourselves, all the while walking humbly with God because He is our Boss!!!

  17. poohpity says:

    Viv, all I can say is I am glad I have not gotten what I deserve, I got God’s mercy and grace. So I would rather pray for them to know the Lord and give it all to Jesus to deal with because if I even have hatred/anger and seek vengeance for them that would mean I want that same for me. I would be guilty of the same as they are doing mine would be in my heart while theirs in out in the open but it is the same thing.

  18. jeff1 says:

    Do you see vengeance and justice as the same? We all make choices that sometimes hurt ourselves or others so I too am glad that I have God’s mercy and grace. Because I want them brought to justice so they will be stopped from hurting others does not mean that I do not believe they deserve God’s mercy and grace but while they choose to hurt others it is the responsibility of those who claim to be on God’s side to do something to stop them from committing atrocities. I do not have guilt in my heart for wanting to see people stopped from hurting others for I believe that puts my heart at one with God’s.

  19. joycemb says:

    Agree Viv, isn’t that just what Jesus did while on earth, laying down His life for all? Yet being without sin Himself. It’s hard to do that, lay down our life for others without sin in our hearts. Only Jesus can and did. We do the best we can seeking justice and being merciful at the same time as you said.

  20. cbrown says:

    Romans 13:1-7 [Full Chapter]
    [ Submission to Governing Authorities ] Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. …

  21. SFDBWV says:

    Jesus taught through picture stories, the story of the Prodigal Son is an allegory as are many of His stories and yet He also taught from the personal experiences of real people such as in the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

    What we can learn from these two stories depends upon who we may identify with as well as an overall unconnected observation; though being identified with either of the characters comes with more empathy.

    If we identify with the father we learn that real love comes with total forgiveness; remembering another quote of Scripture “As far as the east is from the west that is how far I put your sin from Me.” forgiven, forgotten out of sight and out of memory, unimportant and irrelevant.

    If we identify with the son we learn that no matter where we’ve been and what we’ve been up to *if* we come to our senses we can go home and leave our pride in the past with our misadventures.

    The real success of the lesson being a father that is willing to forgive and a son that has repented of his ways.

    Can one succeed without the other?

    The father can be willing to forgive, in fact in the story there is no information given that the father even knows that the son has repented, only that he has come home.

    Perhaps a clue that for the father the only thing that mattered was that the son returned.

    What of the son? He has failed in life and wasted it and upon realizing this he has nowhere to go but home. But can he go home? Only if he swallows his pride and only if he *believes* he will be welcomed.

    The story hinges deeply on the father’s love for his son, forgiveness almost being an unnecessary part of the equation just assumed.

    What happens though if the son never comes home? Is he then lost to his father?

    What might keep the son from returning?

    In the story of Lazarus and the rich man there are consequences for our choices in this life that are carried over into our afterlife.

    If we see God in the figure of the Father in the story of the Prodigal Son, why would God not still be willing to accept repentance in the afterlife if His love is unconditional?

    If we see ourselves as the rich man in torment how could we be anything but sorry for our circumstances and willing to repent if it would only allow us to go home?

    Why or what is it about the few short years we live here on this fallen broken hellish world that is our only opportunity to choose to accept Jesus’ sacrifice if we are expected to live an eternal existence?

    Do we make the choice here and now out of fear or out of love?

    Does it matter?

    Lots to think about, having already made the choice do I have to think about these things or is it out of concern for the lost that I concern myself with such thoughts…

    30 degrees and clear.


  22. jeff1 says:

    I take the side of the Governing Authorities and I must confess there are times when I doubt those authorities to be acting as God intended but even those in authority will bring judgement on themselves for failure to behave has God intended.

    It is my belief that those who are give such authority do their utmost to bring about justice and not seek vengeance but those who do have vengeance in their hearts will bring judgement on themselves. While I may sometimes see the rebels point of view I cannot agree with their stance on terrorizing ordinary people to make that point of view or to get the attention of Government.

    In Northern Ireland it did get those into Government who once supported terrorism but that Government is failing today to deliver peace and stability.

    Such peace and stability comes from God focused people and I long for the day when those either in or out of authority have their heart focused on what is right in God’s eyes and not in their own.

  23. jeff1 says:

    Steve your 7.12 post.

    Do we make the choice here and now out of fear or out of love?

    Does it matter?

    Yes and Yes, to us it matters but I am not sure how much it matters to God.

    God understandss us better than we understand ourselves for He is our creator!

    The reason I say Yes to your first question is that when I accept God out of fear of punishment I put a barrier between God and myself. For me it was listening to false teaching that brought about that fear.

    The gospel is simple but religions are not and I was brought up with both. I had the simple truth but I complicated it with religion and wandered from the faith.

    It is God who is faithful to me/us for He knew many would wander from the truth but the truth is still the truth whether I still have it or not!

    That is the the most wonderful news there is about God is that He dosen’t change. God gave us freedom to make choices and there are times I wish He did not for I do not always make good ones.

    It is God who changes me if I let Him but fear of others has been my greatest stumbling block. Normal life for me and many in my Country was bombs and bullets. It took my son to point out to me what I did not realize that I was afraid of admitting my identify because I had let the terrorists succeed in frightening me.

    He said I was allowing them to make me a victim and He was right for it is what years of living with violence and hatred had made me a victim.

    It Governing Authorities fail to deliver God’s justice then their are victims. In the end I am both a victim and a perpetrator.

    A victim of a world that no longer understands God’s ways and a perpetrator in that I too have failed to understand God’s ways!

    The only power I want to see on earth is God’s power for I have witnessed too often man’s to know that God’s power and love transcends it for it is of the supernatural realm and above my understanding.

  24. joycemb says:

    All we have and need as Christians is the Bible to show us how to live in this sin-sick world. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

    16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

  25. poohpity says:

    It seems the priest realized that Jesus’ parables presented the Kingdom of God in an understandable way and revealed the heart of the Father. It also seems that even though his heart had been hardened when he understood what Jesus was saying in them it softened his hardened heart to accept the inexplicable love of that Father to those who were so undeserving. That perfect love cast out the fear of God and presented Him with open arms no matter what anyone has done.

    What seems to have made it so desirable was because the priest or for me or for anyone else for that matter was in the self examination. Look at that self awareness from a man who did such atrocities in the slave trade who wrote the song “Amazing Grace”. If someone feels that they have not done such bad things in their lives will they ever understand the fullness of the Father’s love?(Luke 18:9-14) I wonder if one will ever realize that even the thoughts of not doing anything that bad in their lives is listening to the prince of darkness which says, “you really do not need the Savior because you are not that horrible” will ever be able to fully understand? Is one aware of the pride involved in that?

  26. poohpity says:

    Does one need to go out and do something horrible so that they can be forgiven much so they can love much? No. Just remembering that God even knows the things we think about or the people we think about should send us to our knee in gratitude. I guess when we compare our lives to others some are worse and some are better but there is no comparison to God’s standards and NO one can meet those standards. The more honest one is about themselves the harder one clings to God’s amazing grace and love.

  27. joycemb says:

    47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”

  28. rokdude5 says:

    Hello everyone..
    Due to the weakness of my flesh, I too, am fraught with guilt time and time again. How can God, Abba Father, keep on putting up with knucklehead like me?

    One night I had a dream of a monster 100ft wave coming straight at me. I woke up perplexed since I wasnt planning to go any seafaring trip. Months later, I dont know why, I realized God was showing me how large is His Grace that covers my sins. Praise God!

  29. jeff1 says:

    The Church’s one foundation
    Is Jesus Christ her Lord,
    She is His new creation
    By water and the Word.
    From heaven He came and sought her
    To be His holy bride;
    With His own blood He bought her
    And for her life He died.

    She is from every nation,
    Yet one o’er all the earth;
    Her charter of salvation,
    One Lord, one faith, one birth;
    One holy Name she blesses,
    Partakes one Holy food,
    And to one hope she presses,
    With every grace endued.

    The Church shall never perish!
    Her dear Lord to defend,
    To guide, sustain, and cherish,
    Is with her to the end:
    Though there be those who hate her,
    And false sons in her pale,
    Against both foe or traitor
    She ever shall prevail.

    Though with a scornful wonder
    Men see her sore oppressed,
    By schisms rent asunder;
    By heresies distressed:
    Yet Saints their watch are keeping,
    Their cry goes up, “How long?”
    And soon the night of weeping
    Shall be the morn of song!

    ‘Mid toil and tribulation,
    And tumult of her war,
    She waits the consummation
    Of peace for evermore;
    Till, with the vision glorious,
    Her longing eyes are blest,
    And the great Church victorious
    Shall be the Church at rest.

    Yet she on earth hath union
    With God the Three in One,
    And mystic sweet communion
    With those whose rest is won,
    With all her sons and daughters
    Who, by the Master’s hand
    Led through the deathly waters,
    Repose in Eden land.

    O happy ones and holy!
    Lord, give us grace that we
    Like them, the meek and lowly,
    On high may dwell with Thee:
    There, past the border mountains,
    Where in sweet vales the Bride
    With Thee by living fountains
    Forever shall abide!

  30. street says:

    loved much loved little.
    forgiven much forgiven little?
    thinking of isaac bound and tied, under a sentence of death from God, completely helpless. unable to do any thing. then a voice calls out abraham, do not harm the boy. God did not have to tell him twice.

    deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Jesus.
    what a Savior!

  31. poohpity says:

    I have to admit I whoa fully have thought before that sin comes in degrees. Especially if it is a sin I have committed I rationalize with myself well that is not as bad as that other person is doing but the reality is that’s my arrogant thinking. God says ALL sin brings on the penalty of death, so my slander or anger is just as bad as murder; my lustful eye is just as bad as adultery. Jesus explained in the sermon on the mount just how His Word is used to the joints and marrow of my thinking to dig deeper into my heart to show me sin where I would have passed it off in degrees.

    So when I cry for justice to be served on someone else aren’t I actually saying let me take the splinter out of their eye not realizing that I have a plank in my own? Only through Jesus am I able to love my and His enemies, only through His grace and mercy am I able to understand the pardon given me by the Father.

    I think about this battle we fight everyday it is not against flesh and blood but the ruler of darkness and evil that can only be fought on my knees in prayer and won by the Lord. We can have courage knowing that Jesus has overcome the things of this world and we can trust Him because He can soften the hardest of hearts.

  32. tracey5tgbtg says:

    Rokdude, I like the image of a 100 ft monster wave as God’s grace. How does that feel to imagine the grace of our Father God as overpowering. “If his grace is an ocean, we’re all sinking…” David Crowder

  33. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks for the explanation Tracey, I was wandering about his comment, what he meant.
    God wants to be a Father to everybody,
    -He does not want anybody to perish-

    Lately we had a sermon about loving your enemies:
    “When I look into the face of my enemy I see my brother”
    and we have been discussing this in church now for few weeks.
    In the first place, because the enemy is not an enemy after all, just unknown and a stanger,
    In the second place, he might come to repentance because of your love shown to him.

    I do not know how to love my enemy, but I trust God that His will lead me through His Spirit, teach me how to do it, and I also believe He will start small and slow, step by step.

    The God at eventide of Nov 16 is very appropriate in how to learn to love the unlovables.
    And it starts with not judging.

  34. street says:

    mart said,”Maybe thoughts like that cause me to keep putting the book down… and wondering at what point such characterizations of the grace and love of God… are too good to be true.”

    thinking of when we put sin down the final time and it no longer has any influence on us. God has chosen to save and give life to His children and we find our present circumstances, the methods of choice, for both parties working out His Divine will. nothing is too hard for God.

  35. street says:

    forever said,”I do not know how to love my enemy,”

    my problem is not knowing how to love anything.
    sure i had things i really liked as a non christian but i could not say it was love. i think the hard part is getting empty and then God has to choose to fill. there in lies faith hope and love that it is done according to His will.

  36. SFDBWV says:

    I love honesty it clears the water as well as the air.

    Who among us can honestly say they love such people who murder defenseless unarmed people with no more thought of the lives they take than someone spraying a garden for insects?

    You might say a lot of things concerning these black hearted cowards, such as you may understand them even pity them, but *love* them!

    God in the story of the “Prodigal Son” is willing to forgive His son, but it is that same God who allows for the death of 1/3 of all living things upon the earth during the 3 ½ year period of tribulation.

    Utterly amazing it is written that the very people God pours out His vials of vengeance upon know it is God who they *war* against yet will not repent and continue to curse His name even unto death.

    Confusing perhaps is the gray line between the spiritual and the flesh, I say gray line because we may see victory over some enemies of life only after we leave this life.

    In fact most all warnings that come from Scripture are about our eternal condition not our fleshly one here and now.

    The entire concept of the “last rites” is a person returning to God before they die. Or if you prefer, a death bed conversion.

    Many of the Jews who rejected Jesus were expecting a conquering King, not a sacrificial Lamb. The picture I read from Scripture is that first came the sacrificial Lamb followed by the conquering King.

    The question is how does the Scripture say the enemies of the King are conquered? Through bloodshed and by the sword or by the changing of the heart and surrender of resistance?

    The only true way I could love an enemy is for him to become a friend not a threat.


  37. tedmgossard says:

    I experience exactly the same thing, Mart. I have a copy of this book, love certain aspects of it along with the witness of Brendan Manning. But I don’t think I’ve ever read the entire book pretty much due to the same thing, I think.

    It seems like people who come to a rock bottom, crashing end of whatever trek they’re on, are more open to this kind of take. I keep going back to the Bible, and I say, “Yes, but….”

    That being said, I think our view of God, and of God as Father certainly needs both the help of scripture and the Holy Spirit’s help. And we need to keep plugging away by faith, regardless.

    I’m not much into some new book even based on scripture or theology (maybe a pop theology at times?) giving me new light so that I can walk in the old way better. I’m a bit of a skeptic on that. But teachers based on the written word, that’s another story.

    I need help in this way myself, by the way. To know God more deeply as the Father Jesus teaches us to know and trust.

  38. jeff1 says:

    I think the question is who is the enemy of the King? I trust I am on God’s side but I know enough now that what I believe is not necessarily the truth. When you wander from the truth because you have listened to false teaching then discerning the truth can become a burden!

    Once you muddy the waters of truth then this world becomes a minefield of what is not true.

    Do those in authority even look to God today for guidance or do they seek it from Scientists and other authorities.

    What I see today is a world where man does not understand God but the question is ‘Is that a surprise to God and the answer is’surely not’ Christ died for a lost world and this world is surely lost if every I seen one!

  39. joycemb says:

    Hello Ted, nice to hear from you. I had to delete one fb account and lost you.

    The other day my friend and I were discussing where is the NT church in this world? We’ve both been in a few different churches and haven’t seen one that lives up to what the apostle Paul taught (though the church within the church does go on silently worshipping and praying). I think it’s the same way with love. God’s love, agape, is so hard to attain, and as street says can only be found by giving up more and more of our SELVES. That’s the battle for me. Brennan discovered this also which is why we all can relate with him. The flesh is a worthy warrior but only the Spirit of God can defeat it. ‘God is Enough’ by Hannah W Smith talks about this. She reminded me this morning that the best thing to do in conflict with another is to lay down our weapons of warfare and let God do our battling for us. Very hard to do, but isn’t God smarter and stronger than all of our weapons, whatever they be? Yes, I believe so. So, this morning in my current battle I’m letting go and letting God take over. Patience is key for me. Patient trusting.

    As for the current world war going on, (especially when it’s an evil, manmade ideology with hopes for eternal bliss through violence), only God can conquer and will eventually as the Bible says. God is not willing that any should perish. Wish I had His kind of patience, yet in all things God works for the good of those who love Him. Hang on with our best love (Jesus) as best we can and ride the storm I guess.

    God bless us all as well as our enemies, and may the whole world find the freedom in Christ they are looking for. Amen

  40. poohpity says:

    Steve you said, ““As for me and my house we will serve the Lord” That being the Lord Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah, the Son of God and one true representative of the Father.” So if Jesus taught we are to love our enemies by praying and doing good to them then would it not follow that is serving the Lord? But then you said, “You might say a lot of things concerning these black hearted cowards, such as you may understand them even pity them, but *love* them!” So do we only do good and pray for those who can return that love isn’t that what even people who are not the Lord’s do?

    Isn’t anger and hatred what caused them to behave as they do? Aren’t we called to follow a different way? Frankly I do not often see any difference in those that say they are Christians and those who have never met Christ or acknowledge there is a God. As Joyce pointed out earlier; “Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”

    It is not anything we can do on our own (love our enemies) but we don’t have to, God gives us that ability when we rely on Him. Like RJ was saying experiencing that monster 100ft wave of God’s grace we may look at life and others in a whole different way especially when we understand that wave has washed over each one of us knowing that ALL have sinned and fallen short of God’s standards. Again it may go back to thinking about sin in degrees.

    We can pray for those who have been the recipient’s of those atrocities but can we not also pray for those who have done those horrible things so that they may know the Lord? Are we going to do this easily or perfectly? I don’t think so but we can take an inch in that direction rather than adding to it and making matters worse by giving back hatred for hatred.

  41. jeff1 says:

    You have to do what you believe in your heart is right!
    I have tried to keep the law of the land since I was a child and if I failed to I accepted that there would be consequences.

    If God has established authorities on earth then it is for me to submit to them or else I am disobeying Him. Those whom God has given power to have to uphold the law and by doing that they must apply punishment when people fail to uphold it.

    When terrorists do what they do they are denying God’s sovereignty and those in charge have to act justly to bring them to justice. In the end God judges all those in authority who abuse that authority for He knows their motives. I/We have to assume their justice is just and not vengeance but only they know that. I am not greater than my master.

  42. poohpity says:

    I have accepted that it is my frailties, sins and faults as this priest did that put Jesus on the Cross. It is because of what Jesus did that brought me to the place of being one with the Father as He is. I guess it would be hard to accept what this author says when one can not accept who I am and will I ever be able to understand the full extent of His grace without that self reflection?

  43. joycemb says:

    An intellectual conception of God may be found in a bad vicious character. The knowledge and vision of God is dependent entirely on a pure heart. Character determines the revelation of God to the individual. The pure in heart see God. Biblical Ethics, 125 R

  44. joycemb says:

    Oswald Chambers

  45. phpatato says:

    Pooh you said “We can pray for those who have been the recipient’s of those atrocities but can we not also pray for those who have done those horrible things so that they may know the Lord?”

    What if those who do those horrible things are actually satan’s demons who are roaming this earth, recruiting and hoping to recruit gullible, blind “given over to a depraved mind” people who are already full of hate, are wanting to lash out and are eager to join up where they are given an opportunity to act it out? Are we to pray for satan and his army?

    Romans 1:28-31 – Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29)Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30)They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31)They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32)They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. NLT

    I am, more and more, looking at this religious cult who do such unspeakable, over the top, inhuman atrocities to believe that I am staring at satan himself. Demons in human form. I believe that which is going on now in Syria/Iraq and in places around this world, is in fact satan readying and recruiting his army for that which is to come as mentioned in the Bible’s end of times prophecy. It is all falling into place, in my eyes. And I agree with Steve…..You might say a lot of things concerning these black hearted cowards, such as you may understand them even pity them, but *love* them!…..the only thing I would change in his quote is – instead of the exclamation mark I would put a question mark and then answer with this

    No. I do not pity them and God forgive me, I do not love them. I find it hard to love them because I question as to whether they are in fact, demons. But, should they be just a bunch of severely misguided, gullible, full of hate people, I pray that God not only helps them but helps me deal with them in all they did and will do; by helping me to love them.

    I also pray that He helps me to be courageous, and strong so that I am able to withstand the wiles of the devil; to discern what is and what isn’t; that I don’t get swallowed up with how satan’s world wants everybody to see this. I do not want to be found going with the flow of popular opinion if that is satan’s wily deception. God help me! We are living in dangerous times. Is it not time for the Christian to realize “that” war has begun and to ready themselves for that giant wave of evil that will be coming at them, so that when it washes over them, they are found to still be standing because they were anchored securely to the solid Foundation who is Jesus Christ or am I simply crazy holding onto a far too paranoid outlook on things.


  46. poohpity says:

    Couldn’t we pray that Satan will not win their hearts and minds all the while making sure the devil and the powers of this world also does not influence ours a long the way with hate, division, strife, talking behind peoples backs(back stabbers), pride in thinking we are any better than they are?

  47. jeff1 says:

    Satan has their hearts or else there would have been no Paris. You can pray that God changes their hearts but I lived too long with terrorism to know that unless men want their hearts to be changed it does not happen. In the end their demands where met so that a kind of peace could be established. The reality of such a peace is that those who agreed to the demands have to keep giving to appease the rebels or the threat of terrorist attacks is always there. It is a fragile peace which is better than what we had but I would not say it is an ideal one.

    I do not think it is about thinking we are any better but do we want to be on God’s side or Satan’s side. I can not get my head around how you could say you trust God and then go out and commit mass murder.

    I at the very least like to believe I try to please God even if it is a pathetic attempt at least there is a will to please Him!

  48. poohpity says:

    How can I pray in the hopes that God will change their hearts because He changed mine through the prayer of others and I had no idea that could happen. There have also been some from ISIL from a recent report I listened to that exactly that has happened from the example they have seen from those that were tortured yet they forgave their torturers and other stories where Jesus appearing and said why are you killing my people. We have an awesome God who is capable of doing mighty things in peoples lives. I am on God’s side and believe in Him and His mighty power or else I would never pray for anyone that is not being on Satan’s side. I always thought that was trusting and believing in God but if one does not believe or trust God then do not pray and never experience being a part of what He has asked us to do and see the results which is part of how our faith grows.

  49. phpatato says:

    Pooh in regards to your 3:27pm comment

    We can pray all we want but God’s Word WILL stand. The end of times Bible prophecy WILL happen. Satan WILL win hearts (he already has) and the devil and his demons WILL influence man along the way (ISIS – al Qaeda terrorists prove they have) and the powers of this world may have already been influenced. If one reads up on Bible prophecy to see that in order for things to fall into place for the anti-christ’s rule over the world during the tribulation period, one would realize that at some point, the world powers are going to bow to be “included” in that one world government, and all religions will merge to be included (inclusion) in that one world religion. Now we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn’t happening or gonna happen or we can ready ourselves by taking our blinders off, filling our lamps with oil and praying for discernment. I mean PRAYING FOR DISCERNMENT!

    These are dangerous, scary times. And it will get worse because it is supposed to get worse. Scripture tells us so. More and more modern day theologians, who have made a study of end of times prophecy, are saying, if we aren’t yet living in the “end of time” then we are most certainly on the doorstep with the door wide open. I believe the Holy Spirit will guard our hearts and minds and He will guide our steps into truth. I am the type, who wants to be prepared for what may come at me, and to me it’s a freight train and when it comes, I don’t want to be among those who say “I never saw that coming”.

    So as bad as this sounds, and God forgive me, I will be viewing ISIS et al as satan’s recruits, just because I can’t possibly think that any person not possessed are able to carry out those horrific acts to the degree that they have. They are demon possessed in my view and I will hold that view until someone is able to explain it differently to me with the Bible as their sword.

  50. poohpity says:

    “On Friday night you stole away the life of an exceptional being, the love of my life, the mother of my son, but you will not have my hatred. I do not know who you are and I don’t want to know, you are dead souls.
    If the God for whom you kill so blindly made us in His image, each bullet in my wife’s body would have been a wound in His heart.
    We are only two, my son and I, but we are more powerful than all the world’s armies… every day of his life this little boy will insult you with his happiness and freedom.
    Therefore I will not give you the gift of hating you. You have obviously sought it but responding to hatred with anger would be to give in to the same ignorance that that has made you what you are. You want me to be afraid, to cast a mistrustful eye on my fellow citizens, to sacrifice my freedom for security. Lost. Same player, same game.
    Of course I’m devasted with grief, I will give you that tiny victory, but this will be a short-term grief. I know that she will join us every day and that we will find each other again in a paradise of free souls which you will never have access to.

    We are only two, my son and I, but we are more powerful than all the world’s armies. In any case, I have no more time to waste on you, I need to get back to Melvil who is waking up from his afternoon nap. He’s just 17 months old; he’ll eat his snack like every day, and then we’re going to play like we do every day; and every day of his life this little boy will insult you with his happiness and freedom. Because you don’t have his hatred either.

    – Antoine Leiris From the heart of one who follows the Lord and lost his wife in Paris. See he knows!!

  51. SFDBWV says:

    As is always the case pooh it is you that don’t get it. You that don’t see and you that just wants to promote discord among we here in what is left of this gathering.

    Read again and see where Antoine says he *loves* his wife’s killers.

    If you want to pretend you do go ahead, I for one don’t care what you think or say and only have said this for Pat’s sake.


  52. poohpity says:

    To me what the dad said was light shining in the darkness. You are probably right that I do not get it and how that had anything to do with what Pat said I do not get either. The dad made a choice over hatred and anger and to teach his son that those terrorists will not have that kind of power of them because it makes them no different than the terrorists. So you are right I do not get it but I would far rather not get it than to promote hatred and anger. :-)

    Just because he did not come out and say he loved his enemies 5 days after they killed his wife, his love for his son and God did come out. It is shown in his actions not his words but I would rather see than listen to someone say all kinds of things but never really live out their words.

  53. poohpity says:

    Steve FYI, Just to let you know I had not read what Pat had wrote when I had found this man’s testimony on the internet which I then came and copied and pasted here. So you are protecting Pat from something that was not even there.

  54. poohpity says:

    Pat, in response to what you wrote. I believe that we have been in the end times since Jesus left in a cloud and gave us our marching orders. To do good and share the Gospel of grace. We also were left with things to watch out for. God’s word does seem like a weapon to use against others it is a weapon that God uses within us to root out that which displeases Him. So that we can see and acknowledge the work in ourselves that still needs to be done so that we will not be puffed up.

    It seems to be filled with anger and hatred our lamps are empty and is only the profession of faith without any visible signs to show it. So when Jesus comes again we are caught, like the saying goes, with our pants down. What would he see if we are in prayer trusting Him with these battles and not falling into the temptation to return evil for evil, that would seem to be more like our lamps being filled with His anointed oil. Being spiritually decayed not daily keeping our own slates clean(wicks trimmed) and filled with God by remaining in a vital union with Him(filled with oil) but empty living after the flesh which breeds discontentment, lusts, rage, jealously, quarrels etc.

  55. joycemb says:

    Good afternoon all,
    Reading the posts today so far brings to mind Bonhoeffers definition of ‘cheap grace’.

    “Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession…Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.”

    I think I talked about this a couple years ago when I first started reading this blog.

    It needs to be mentioned again lest we be taken in by false teaching/teachers among us.

    Thank you Mart for your Godly blog which is under attack because it IS a Godly blog.

    May the Spirit of God lead us into all truth and righteousness. Amen

  56. joycemb says:

    Reconciling with God promises loving forgiveness as the story of the prodigal promises.

    Reconciling with man includes confession, and the humility to seek forgiveness – why maybe the older brother had a hard time forgiving and accepting the younger. However, the point of the story is God’s forgiveness, not mans. The NT explains the process of dealing with the sins of another; which involves confrontation, confession, and hopefully repentance. A process first involving one, then two, then finally involving the whole fellowship.

    Man is not God, and God is not man.

    We have a vertical relationship with God, and horizontal relationships with mankind.

    It is a conundrum we all must deal with.

  57. poohpity says:

    It could be with the story of the prodigal that behavior was not as important to the Father as his relationship with each of his children knowing the Father’s heart as he loved each one. One may think it more logical that the Father loved the older one because he did everything right while the younger seemed to do every wrong but loved them both the same. So even though the younger was far anyway physically, the older seemed far away as in not really knowing the heart of the Father.

  58. joycemb says:

    As I said I don’t think it’s about the relationship between the father and older brother but the point being as the older son was already in the fathers care the younger son returned because he wanted the safety and security the father provided. Sibling rivalry is not brought up as speculation is just that-speculation- and only takes away from the true message Jesus wanted to convey.

  59. narrowpathseeker says:

    First of all I agree with all that believe ISIS is Satan’s army. We may have to forgive and pray for our enemies, but we don’t have to associate with them and certainly don’t have to communicate with those serving darkness and deceit. I just keep praying and spend more time with the Lord these days…I only came back here to see what was going on via a message from a friend and have one last straight forward comment to make and then I will shake the dust of Pooh from my feet. Pooh after years and years and more years of your continual and deliberate rebel rousing I see you as a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a person who sometimes honors the Lord with your lips ONLY and the rest of the time you are hell bent on devouring the sheep here. Unbelievably, the shepherd here not only protects the wolf, but pats it on the head every now and then and that is very messed up. ..Do you have any idea how ridiculous it is to PRETEND to build a shelter from the storm like a mime? GET REAL POOH…time is running out. THE END

  60. joycemb says:

    What the older son understood about the father is left also to speculation; to condemn or criticize comes from a ones own heart. It is parable, not true story. It’s good to take the good that Jesus meant from it as a blessing for all. Prodigals and older brothers alike.

  61. poohpity says:

    narrow, is your hatred and anger any different than that of ISIS or any other terrorist?

  62. cbrown says:

    Good morning all! The “Lord’s prayer” to the Father is direct and to the point. Each day I have to be reminded of the instruction given by the Son of God of how to pray to God the Father.

  63. joycemb says:

    Good morning Chris! Yes, so thankful that each day we have the opportunity to in a sense renew our vows to the Father and refresh our daily living planner using the words of our Lord’s Prayer. Amen!

  64. SFDBWV says:

    Pearl you are a pearl. A good wife a good mother, hard worker and sufferer for your faith. It is pleasing to know that your good efforts and steadfast life has given you such a good reward now.

    Thank you for your involvement here and as a personal friend.

    Yesterday I was a bit remiss in that I should have said that I only answered pooh for Foreverblessed and Viv as well as Pat as all three had been honest about their feelings.

    As much as I admire truth I deplore dishonesty even more.

    Honesty is something that pooh has yet to discover and sadly has not the ability to even comprehend the concept.

    If any of the rest of us hope to be able to enjoy the subject matter Mart introduces with a spirit of Christian fellowship the distractions of endless bitterness and envious intrusions from pooh has to be ignored or this place of discussion will end and she and her spirit of strife will have succeeded in stealing our joy and quenching the Holy Spirit’s movement here.

    Personally I will continue to try and ignore her insults and attacks for the benefit of everyone else here. It is my hope that for those of you who can’t ignore the constant strife she infuses into the conversation that you still continue to participate in a healthy and enjoyable discussion of Mart’s subject matter anyway.

    I am sorry for my part in this matter and ask your forgiveness and understanding in why I have once again had to say something at all.


  65. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends —

    Whether or not we relate personally to Brennan Manning’s self-revelation, his journey is real and I have taken it to heart. You quoted Fr. Brennan in part, Mart:

    “Again and again radical grace has gripped me in the depths of my being, brought me to accept ownership of my infidelities, and led me back to the fifth step of the AA program: ‘Acknowledge to God, another human being, and myself the exact nature of my wrongdoing.’”

    Brother Brennan’s witness shows us the path of salvation — confession — justification — forgiveness, cleansing and entering the embrace of our Heavenly Father. Radical grace flows to any and all who believe in Jesus and His self-sacrifice for each of us.

    Perhaps Brennan Manning’s humility and confession are “too much” for some who stop by to see the topic and the responses. One learning from “The Ragamuffin Gospel” is that sin brings consequences. Plus, there is always hope in Christ.

    The “attack” that has not made the current news is the constant onslaught on our spirit, mind and body by the evil one. That old enemy and his agents of temptation flee when we confess, repent and pray for the Lord’s forgiveness.

    I have drawn fire for my comments in this thread. So, please accept my apologies to all who have been distressed by my comments about King Hezekiah, King Sennacherib and the attitude of the tiny nation of Finland during the Nazi attacks upon them (Our Daily Bread entry for Sat. Nov. 14th). My intention was to offer something positive. That seems to have been left behind days ago. Sorry Friends!


  66. poohpity says:

    You are upset with me because Jesus instructed us to love our enemies by praying for them and doing good to them?

  67. poohpity says:

    Maru, I thought your comments were very positive and enlightening as they most often are. :-)

  68. poohpity says:

    oops my comment at 11:21am was addressed to Steve and his followers.

  69. cbrown says:

    Maru, I went back and read your previous comments. Thank you

  70. joycemb says:

    Pooh it’s not about what Jesus said, we all know what He said. It’s about those not unlike you who use the scriptures as darts to throw at others and expect everyone else to live them–but you.

    As for being a ‘follower’ of Steve, well, in the sense that his Christian walk portrays everything Jesus said we should do and be, yes, I have high respect and regard for him. His actions and lifestyle prove it.

    Maru I was not offended by your post. As Christians we are ‘out there’ and bound to offend some, that’s part of the price we pay as believers. Especially on a Christian blog as I said before, the enemy finds it worthy to attack, which is a blessing, really. As it proves we are on the right track. The Godly track.

  71. remarutho says:

    Dear BTA Friends —

    At the season of Thanks (in the USA) — and the soon start of the Advent Season celebrating the arrival of Jesus Christ into the world — let me wish each one here the blessing of peace of mind in these woeful times of the human race.

    Am imagining how thankful the Prodigal Son was as his Father enfolded him into such an extravagant welcome!

    Thanks to the Father for Jesus — family — friends — patient teachers who bring me along — my free country — what good health I have been given so far — covering from the weather — food to eat — shelter. One minute of praise and thanksgiving can wash away the stinging indifference and rejection of the world.

    Most of us here have only words imprinted on an lcd screen by which to know and understand each another. Behind each little box-full of words is a heart and mind — feelings, experiences, struggles. Happy Thanksgiving! Great Joy at Advent-Christmas!


  72. joycemb says:

    Thank you Maru for that.

    The problem as I see it on this blog is that some of us have established friendships outside the blog and have gotten to know others personally through phone, fb, and texts. I have some personal friends here, and have had to ‘unfriend’ people on the blog that were difficult to be in relationship with.
    Those I am in personal relationships with now are kind, friendly, truthful, honest, and easy to get along with as they show Christlikeness in their behavior and in their personal lives.

    This issue would be confusing for those who have maintained their anonymity. I’m grateful for the personal friends I’ve found here as they certainly outweigh the difficult ones.

    My apologies to all others here who aren’t aware of what’s going on under the blog, so to speak. Being a public blog however it’s life as we live right now.
    No different than having a difficult neighbor next door to try and live with I guess. I’ve taken my concerns to Mart yet he’s chosen not to enter into the fray. So, on it goes I guess.

  73. phpatato says:

    Good afternoon all

    I want to say too, that I apologize for my comments if they offended. My intent was to honestly put out how I feel and why I am feeling as I do. Where else is it safest to go than to fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

    Pooh, just to clarify in our back and forth comments….

    I am feeling very scared and I am very angry at the senseless snuffing out of innocent human lives because of the dark evil that seems to be gaining a foothold on the world. I can be angry at the evil being done. That is being human. I can be scared at the evil being done. That is being human. However, I never once said the word hate. You are the one that brought that word to the table. You are the one that made the assumption that because I am fearful and angry I must be hateful too. I am not hateful…but then truthfully I haven’t really examined my heart to see if in fact I should add hate to how I’m feeling. I do know though, right now, I am sickened and angry at the atrocities done and I am very scared, knowing that in a blink of an eye, these zealots can strike on home soil where it will affect me personally. But, that is all part of God’s plan if it happens and I will, should it happen, seek His comfort and yes probably will ask WHY.

    Yes, I did say that I do not pity them. Pity defined is this: a strong feeling of sadness or sympathy for someone or something.
    I do not have a strong feeling of sympathy for those terrorists. I have a strong feeling of sympathy for their victims.

    I also said I do not love them. Because the definition of love takes in several meanings, I will use some of its synonyms for the definition: devotion, affection, favour, fondness, allegiance, respect, esteem, appreciation
    I do not feel these words for those terrorists. I do admit to feeling some of the near antonym definitions though, such as: dislike, disfavour, disgust, enmity – a deep unfriendly feeling
    But hate, I never really considered it being full out hate.

    There is another word that describes how I am feeling…Cautious. Thanks Joyce. I am intensely cautious. And as it was pointed out to me, being cautious does not make me unChristlike. Being scared does not make me unChristlike. Being angry, skeptical, not trusting and yes, judgmentally jumping to conclusions about these ISIS terrorists is unChristlike and I will admit to being all of those but God help me to change how I feel because I really really do believe they are demons of the devil in the flesh. They are not human beings. Do I have a right then, if they in fact are demon spirits in body form, to feel the way I do? Only God knows and through His Spirit, He will work with me on that.

    And you know what….at least I am truthful and I am not scared to say how I feel – to show how terrible a Christian I must be and I am taking ownership of having those feelings. Admitting I have a problem is the first step to recovery. Asking for forgiveness and help in how to deal with it all is the second.

    At least I don’t dress myself in fluff to make me appear like I’m all fuzzy and warm. And at least I am not burying my head in the sand.

  74. joycemb says:

    Pat yes it is a very scary time we live in on our side of the globe also. Sometimes the best way to love another is to stay away. The Bible does say that we are to be at peace with others as much as we are able to. I can pray for the enemy, that Jesus would make Himself known to them as is happening right now to radicals in the Middle East, yet for me to be at peace with them means staying away from them for my own safety. I’m not a Daniel or a David for that matter. If I am in danger I hide and pray. Like David did also. David showed his love for God by not attacking Saul when he had the chance, yet let him know he’d been there. He trusted God to save him and deal with Saul. Those called on to approach and confront the enemy need our prayers and blessing. Like David with Goliath. I’m not a David but I can do as I am able.

    When I was younger I did have to confront some and testify in court for myself and for others. But it was a peaceful/safe environment with lots of protection even though I was scared to death! Radicals are not interested in peaceful dialogue, it’s then that fighting must be done with proper weapons. The enemy would have said to Jesus, aren’t you supposed to love your enemies, even me? Jesus would have said I believe ‘love God first and then others, but with the wisdom of a serpent and the gentleness of a dove’.

    Jesus knows just how cunning he is, and we can be wise also.

  75. street says:

    been thinking….

    working out your salvation with fear and trembling..

    thinking if the babylonians and assyrians had acted in accord with God’s will they would still be a great nation. sure they hammered the people of israel. yet went beyond what good right and just bring judgment on themselves. non are righteous no not one each as gone astray. fear and trembling is of the idea that we can become the enemies of God. the same ones we claim to be godless and evil. boy do we need a Savior!

  76. street says:

    i think of the guy who went out of his way to protect jerimaih when he was thrown into useless cistern. he knew he could die for helping him because people were so angry at jerimiah. he cared more for jerimiah than his own life and he was not an israeli. God preserve his life and jerimiah’s. thinking those who try to save their life will lose it and those who lose their life will be saved.

  77. jeff1 says:

    As someone who posts here not knowing anyone personally I want to say something to you Pooh which is my observation and is meant to be honest rather than judgemental.

    As I have said from the beginning I have not studied the bible and my knowledge of it is from stories I was taught at Sunday School and church sermons.

    I do understand enough from people who do know it well and what I have read from the discovery programmes on this web that we are in the book of revelation.

    I understand from this that the world will get much darker in the end times and I see that happening in the world today as there have been wars and disasters of all sorts in this world.

    I do not understand someone who claims to read the bible and claims to know God’s word and yet does not see the forces of evil at work as the bible predicted.

    As I understand from what I know about God’s word is that we will be perplexed and down hearted about what is going on in the world but we also can be assured that God is still in control and has overcome the evil we see before us.

    This to be is what faith is about not understanding all that is happening but trusting in God’s word. Your insistence that everyone has evil in their heart I can understand from my own experience of hating my enemies but the difference in me and my enemies is that I let God into my heart and listened to Him when He told me it was wrong to feel the way I did. I accepted that I was darkening my heart and had feelings that where bordering on wanting them to suffer as much as they had made others suffer. I Pooh, am letting God soften my heart and turning my mind away from retribution. The difficulty for me is that I know God did not soften my heart overnight it has been a struggle for me with dark thoughts of relatives and friends who where blown to kingdom come from bombs or shot down in front of their children.

    The difference I see in myself and the terrorists is that I have the truth of the Gospel for I am with God’s help going to struggle with my own demons rather than demand vengeance on those who perpetrate demonic acts.

    Those who perpetrate demonic acts do not have the truth but have been falsely taught and while I personally do not hold a person responsible for listening to false teaching for I have stood in that man’s/woman’s shoes it is not for me to judge the heart of the perpetrators.

    I have noticed from your comments Pooh that you always assume a person’s motives are ungodly and in doing so you do that person an injustice for while none of us here claim we are righteousness as God is righteous we do endeavor to do what is right from what we have been taught or know of the Gospel.

    As someone who has no knowledge of anyone on this blog other than reading all their posts I have noted Pooh that you are apt to see the worst side of people while I was brought up to see the best side of people. My father taught me to look for the good in people and you will find it but human nature being what it is if you look for the worst then you will find that too.

    As I have said earlier this is purely my observation and not meant to offend for we all are brothers and sisters in Christ irrespective of our differences and looking at this world today it is our faithfulness in the God who loves us all despite our weaknesses that is so very important above all else.

  78. poohpity says:

    Viv, you have noticed about the exact opposite of what I was saying. I asked if our hatred and anger is any different it is still anger and hatred, I also never said that there will not be evil in the world but we are asked to confront it with prayer and trusting God instead rather than falling in to it ourselves. It seems listening to what others have said about me rather than reading what I wrote may have caused this confusion.

  79. poohpity says:

    I asked questions. I did not call anyone ungodly or any other names or accuse them of anything, that was their writing not mine.

  80. joycemb says:

    Street said “fear and trembling is of the idea that we can become the enemies of God. the same ones we claim to be godless and evil. ”

    I was thinking about how we can worship The Lord with gladness, thankfulness and singing if we are fearful and trembling. The fearfulness and trembling could also come from the recognition that we don’t deserve His blessing, which is why we need a savior! Yes! And we do. Jesus Christ Messiah who paid the penalty for our sins and gives us joyful audience with the Creator of the whole world. Amen

  81. jeff1 says:

    I believe that it is not the hatred and anger is different it is my reaction to it! I with God’s help battle my demons in my mind while others live it out creating more victims in the process. I have peace of mind because I take my anger to God and leave it with Him while they take it out on victims whom they do not even know.

    I think its what most law abiding people do leave it with God and those in authorities who know best.

    I am not listening to what others write but what I see you write and I have to say you have a very negative view of your fellow believers which can be unhealthy.

    I have spent my life searching for the truth of the Gospel and have stumbled many times in the process. The good news is that God has taught me something new each time I have got up again! It was being around people like your fellow believers on this blog that renewed my faith when I often felt like giving up on it.

    As someone who has battled with doubts, more than I ever imagined, being brought up in the faith, I have to be honest with you, I take heart from all the posts on here and because it is the others posts that I take heart from I see them as lifting my spirits while I have listened to too many in the past who have quenched my spirit.

    I believe I have a responsibility to other believers who falter sometimes, to be patient and give them encouragement in times of distress and doubt. They have done likewise for me when I had difficulties. No man is an island, we need each other and have a duty to build each other up and not tear each other down.

    That is the Gospel of Christ as I was taught it and may God be with us all as we endeavor to adhere to that Gospel

  82. poohpity says:

    Viv, you say you have spent your life searching for the truth of the Gospel but say you will not read the bible and it is right there in black and white. I can not change the opinion you have formed about me and everyone has their right to their own opinion but if you will just give it a try by going back and reading what I have wrote without comments from anybody that opinion may change. I have never given my opinion about anyone on this blog nor shared what I think about them nor accused. I have however asked for clarification about statements that seem to be incongruent. Trust me I am patient with my brothers and sister because I do not return ugliness for their ugliness, accusations, name calling or snipes because I know that it does no good for anyone and I understand that they may be going through things that I am not aware of that causes them to act out.

  83. jeff1 says:

    If you read completely what I said you will see that I said while I was searching I stumbled many times but it was during those times that God taught me something new. I know I have a heart for God because if His spirit was not within me I would not have the desire to stop hating my enemies. I also am beginning to recognize false teaching and see now that God has always loved me. I do not have to read the bible to get the truth of the gospel for it is a truth that never changes. Man throughout the ages has interpreted the bible to suit their religion but God remains faithful to those whom He knows are His. That is what God wants His people to know that they need have no fear of what goes on in this world for He has always had their back.

  84. SFDBWV says:

    Chris gave reference to “The Lord’s Prayer” appropriately giving honor to whom the prayer is addressed “Our Father”.

    I am reminded of the promise Jesus gave us when He said if we being *human* know what to ask for imagine what it is God, being our Heavenly Father, is able to give us over and above whatever it is we may think we need.

    Jesus even went so far as to make comparisons as saying what kind of father would give a stone for bread or a serpent for a fish. Matthew 7: 1-11

    So it is that Jesus tells us that our Heavenly Father knows how to perfectly give us what it is we not only need, but out give us for whatever we ask for.

    Indeed Mart is this “too good to be true?” I hope not, in fact all of my hopes relies on God being a better giver than I am an asker.

    24 degrees and clear this morning…Guessing Mart has snow today.


  85. remarutho says:

    Good Morning Mart & Friends —

    Rereading the conversation here around the topic “Father?” I find I am looking only for the hope of God’s grace. Steve, you wrote:

    “So it is that Jesus tells us that our Heavenly Father knows how to perfectly give us what it is we not only need, but out give us for whatever we ask for.”

    I ask for the hope of the good news that entered the material plane with the birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension and now forever reign of our Lord Jesus.

    In conscience, I am compelled to ask myself (as St. Peter does), “Have you ‘sanctified Christ as Lord in your heart, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence…'”

    Little else seems worthwhile in this world today!

    32F — clear and frosty here.


  86. poohpity says:

    Viv, I have always read completely whatever you have written and have even spent time getting to understand you as I do others as well without jumping to conclusions but really listening to what is said. Putting together all the pieces of the puzzles shared to see the wonderful picture of each person’s uniqueness and understanding along the way how big God’s love is and how totally amazing His grace is, which seems more often than not “to good to be true”.

  87. oneg2dblu says:

    Good day all… following up Steve’as lead in on asking, I see two verses that sum much up for any of those who suffer themselves and others, thinking they can not change anything about themselves.
    They are found in James 4 which opens with two questions,
    First, “What causes fights and quarrels among you?
    Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?

    Talk about Introspection?

    Then, comes the solution.

    “You do not have because you do not ask God.
    When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.”


    It sounds like all our dis-pleasures come from our inability to ask God for the solution through using the right motive.

    Our battle is to find the right motive first, then, ask God to provide the answer to our quarrels, finding He has already given us the way.

    Did we not all ask God to come into our very being, to have a relationship with Him through Christ as our Savior, Mediator, and Mentor, to change us from the inside?

    If not, Why not?

    And better yet, If we have asked, then, why do we not receive that which we have asked for?

    Just Thinking….

  88. joycemb says:

    Thankyou all for your prayers. I’m still holding my friends couch down-3 weeks now-so going to stay with another friend for a few days then will be able to move in Dec. 1-Lord willing. Winter finally arrived here in the northland of the US so not so much fun to sit outside for very long anymore but very beautiful with the black outline of the trees against a pink/blue sky.

    I’m so appreciative of your prayers and continue to pray for all here,
    Blessings, Joyce

  89. jeff1 says:

    As Pooh says we are unique individuals and as such the desires of our hearts are very different. I desire for God to take away the hate I know I have for my enemies so that I can be at peace with Him.

    I find my hate stronger than I can contend with so I have left it with God to soften my heart as only He can. Have I got the right motives, no, I do not want to be like them but do I care for them, the truth about that is that I can only see their victims and to me they are faceless renegades who have brought judgement on themselves.

    Does that make me a follower of Christ? No it makes me in need of Christ’s forgiveness and mercy as much as the perpetrators are! I may not see them as I see their victims but I do not want them to suffer like their victims!

    The one thing I know about my enemies is that they are suffering too for false teaching as taken them on a course of action that they no longer have control over. Satan has control over them as He has over me.

    What can I asked God for Gary that He has not already given me assurance that Christ not only died for my sins but for the sins of those whom Satan ensnares in his web of deceit in a world that no longer understands nor desires to know God’s ways.

  90. jeff1 says:

    Regardless of who or what I have become in this world I know in my heart that God’s spirit reaches out to me in mysterious ways and that if not in this world then in the next I will understand them completely. In the meantime I have this:

    Blessed, assurance, Jesus is mine!
    Oh, what a foretaste of glory divine!
    Heir of salvation, purchase of God,
    Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

    This is my story, this is my song,
    Praising my Savior all the day long;
    This is my story, this is my song,
    Praising my Savior all the day long.

    Perfect submission, perfect delight,
    Visions of rapture now burst on my sight;
    Angels, descending, bring from above
    Echoes of mercy, whispers of love.

    Perfect submission, all is at rest,
    I in my Savior am happy and blest,
    Watching and waiting, looking above
    Filled with His goodness, lost in His love.

  91. SFDBWV says:

    Glad to see you back Gary, missed you on a couple good subjects.

    Light snow this morning and 30 degrees.


  92. poohpity says:

    “Our clumsy human attempts at forgiveness often create more problems than they solve. In condescending fashion we crush and humiliate the sinner with our unbearable largesse.” Had to look up what “largesse” means. To me it is saying giving forgiveness, mercy or grace to someone we feel is inferior to us that is what makes it condescending. Not realizing the condition of my own heart, God did not give me mercy and grace in a condescending manner but out of love. He had every right to think of Himself more highly than me but laid that down to die a criminals death for someone like me.

    So it sure isn’t beneath me to extend that to others. It does not show at all that I understand that kind of mercy unless I show it. It sure doesn’t mean I understand grace or His forgiveness unless I give it away too. Just as the “Lord’s Prayer” says, “forgive me my trespasses as I forgive those who trespass against me”.

    Do I want to be forgiven? Then I must be willing to forgive. Do I want mercy and grace? Then I must be willing to show mercy and grace. God has given grace to us generously. Is the grace I show others stingy or generous? Knowing that it was to good to be true for me do I think that others must deserve mine and if and when I do, is it in a largesse fashion?

  93. oneg2dblu says:

    Steve… thanks, I never missed a topic or a word.
    Our teaching last night was in
    Luke 11, where the Disciples who followed Christ every day knew how much daily prater meant to the Lord and his relationship with the Father.
    It was a full on, direct, constant, and purposeful process.
    It was part of His being, being who He was, a Son in need if a Loving Father’s help, and asking for it constantly.

    So it is with us being sons and daughters of the Living God, (through our relationship with Christ,) we too need to be full on in our participation through our prayer life as well.

    The Disciples so wanted this same results they witnessed, the relationship and the walk, that they even asked the Lord how to pray.

    The Lord delivered for them and us, a perfect blueprint in that prayer, one with a solid structure, a purpose, and results.

    For it was the Son, Jesus who asked, and the Father, who heard his son’s motives were pure, and being a Good Good God, and a Good, Good, Father, that always delivered.

    The motive was the right one, it is really that simple, yet profound.

    We get what we ask for, only if our motives are inline with His Will.
    Praise God!

  94. oneg2dblu says:

    Having said all that, and with minimum typo’s, :0
    we must also accept that when we pray with knowing our motives are inline with His Will, and we don’t get the answer we want, God has another purpose beyond our understanding, and in our best interest as well, but, we do not get to see the full picture here, while we live in these earthly tents, we can only find our peace in knowing we have our prayers heard, our right relationship,
    and we can always, Boldly Approach His Throne of Grace.
    Be Blessed!

  95. oneg2dblu says:

    Here’s my problem for those who currently believe that, “All Our Sins are Already Forgiven,” as some teach today with their, “Past, Present, Future,” thinking.

    How can I also pray that prayer, asking for something that conflicts with that teaching?

    Do we all now need to be “twice forgiven,” our daily sins, and our future sins, or those we commit tomorrow?

    Or, is there a more modern, Lord’s Prayer for those who already believe otherwise, that all their sins are already forgiven them, Past, Present and Future?

    Just Asking…

    To me, it just does not work.

    It does not work for what I currently believe, and for what Christ has actually given us in that model “daily prayer,” for all His Disciples.

  96. poohpity says:

    Jesus died for your sins approximately 2000 years ago. Had you even sinned yet? Were you thought of yet by your family? There is only one death and resurrection for all people of all times. It is not twice forgiven it was taken care of once for all at one time. The Lord’s prayer is a model to teach us how to pray. Jesus guided us in that prayer to ask God “Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.”(Luke 11:4) but as scripture is used to translate scripture one finds the meaning clearer in Matt 6:14-15; “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15″But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.”

  97. poohpity says:

    1 Peter 3:18; Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.

    Hebrews 9:26; Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

    Hebrews 10:10
    And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

  98. poohpity says:

    Those who went the their grave in the past before Jesus came, looking forward to His salvation were raised to life when Jesus cried from the Cross that is was finished. Matt 27:51-52 At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, 52and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead.

  99. poohpity says:

    The past, present(at the time Jesus walked the earth) and those of us in the future who came to believe. That also fits for us the sins before we knew Jesus we are forgiven, the ones we do today and the ones we will do in the future. Those sins have been paid for by Jesus on the cross one time and for all time until we met Him face to face and lose this fleshly shell. It is Finished! It is a done deal such amazing grace how sweet the sounds that saved a wretch like me and any who accepted His sacrifice and believe in Him. That is the hope of a follower of Christ and we know our Salvation is held in heaven away from corruption until that day when we have stayed true to our faith to receive our reward.

    1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.…

    For those of us who can be confident in what we are promised that we can not lose something that was never ours to begin with it is a gift from God. He protects it for us when we leave this world.

  100. street says:

    “the conviction of personal sinfulness becomes the occasion of encounter with the merciful love of the redeeming God.”

    be thinking about this one for awhile.

  101. foreverblessed says:

    A few days ago Jeff gave an old hymn: Blessed Assurance.
    As a little child I sang this song in church, but it disappeared, often the song would come back:
    This is my story, this is my song,
    la la la la la, all the day long.

    And I was wondering: what were we doing all day long?
    Now I know:
    Praising my Saviour!

    It is a beautiful song, as is the melody, so hopeful and positive!
    Thanks Jeff
    And welcome back Gary.

  102. foreverblessed says:

    Hebrews 10:22
    “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.”

    The song is taken from this verse.

  103. SFDBWV says:

    November 23, 2015
    Enough for Me
    “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past.” (Romans 3:24-25)

    Jesus has done all that is necessary to bring us into right standing with a holy God, if we but believe and accept His free gift of salvation. Jesus saves! It is enough! “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace” (Ephesians 1:7). The second verse of the hymn “My Faith Has Found a Resting Place” further explains this.

    Enough for me that Jesus saves, This ends my fear and doubt;
    A sinful soul I come to Him, He’ll never cast me out.
    I need no other argument, I need no other plea,
    It is enough that Jesus died, And that He died for me.

    Jesus, who loved us, said, “Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37). There is no fear here, for “there is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear” (1 John 4:18). Nor should there be any doubt in Him or His intentions, “in whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him” (Ephesians 3:12). Furthermore, “being confident . . . that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).

    The chorus of the hymn likewise presents a thrilling truth. It paints a picture of a courtroom and the interrogation of a defendant. When asked why one should be forgiven, granted eternal life and entrance into heaven, the argument or legal defense can be given that Jesus has died, and that is enough. No other legal defense or answer need be given. The plea has already been entered, and the court’s findings are guaranteed, “justified freely by his grace.” JDM

    I thought I might share this you all this morning as it says plenty about our subject of a forgiving father. It is from my daily devotional “Days of Praise” from “Institute of Creation Research”.

    15 degrees and clear this morning.


  104. jeff1 says:

    Thank you foreverblessed I too remember it from childhood but I did not know it was taken from the verse in Hebrews 10:22.

    Street says ‘the conviction of personal sinfulness becomes the occasion of encounter with the merciful love of the redeeming God’

    It was that conviction that left me speechless before God because I realized I had been critical of others and blind to my own sins.

    It was also when I realized that it is God who is faithful to me and not the other way around.

    I can make all the right noises and do all the right things but it is only when I see the deceitfulness of my own heart that I truly understand who God is and why He got it right when he allowed His son to suffer and die for mankind.

    God knows human nature better than we know ourselves otherwise He would have not had to send His son to suffer and die for our Salvation!

    The Gospel is a simple or as difficult as an individual sees it but the truth of the Gospel remains true from beginning to end and for that I am grateful for God’s love is both everlasting and unconditional and where else will I find love like that certainly not in this world!

  105. jeff1 says:

    I should say eternally grateful and I should also remain joyful for regardless of how dark this world seems God is faithful!

  106. oneg2dblu says:

    Pooh… thanks for sharing all those wonderful faith building verses, which do certainly support the forgiveness of sin.

    To All…

    The word, the bible, being the fullness of the truth, gives us even the conditional verses…

    15″But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.”

    In them, (those conditional words,) we should see that there is an ongoing purpose for our daily contribution as well.

    That is what makes an ongoing relationship, a Relationship.

    With “Our Daily” contribution certainly failing us, comes the need for us all to pray all the more, for His Daily Forgiveness.

    To me, the Bible is not “only” about God’s Love for us, God’s Will for us, Gods Purpose for us, but about us needing to also be daily doing Our Part, as being conditional.

    We must daily turn from our wicked ways, We must Repent.

    We must return to the Father, and ask for God’s Forgiveness.

    We must also keep the conditions, as actually being Conditional!

    That, was my point!

    Be Blessed!

  107. poohpity says:

    You are right Gary, there is a condition to our salvation and everything else that has to do with God. BELIEVE! That was Jesus’ command, “BELIEVE”.

  108. jeff1 says:

    Yes it is faith that pleases God, faith shows we trust in God to do what is right instead of acting on our human understanding and with all our good intentions getting it wrong.

  109. oneg2dblu says:

    Yes, Believe, or BELIEVE, if you will.

    That is but one word among so many others given to us by the Lord.

    I like the word believe, because it is an ongoing word, a verb, which requires a constancy.

    It is not a past place, like having once believed, but, a current process, a living in an active, spontaneous, voluntary, sense of presence.

    A knowing, that you know, you know.

    For the absence of this knowing would be, unbelief.

    I trust, “we all know,” that Disobedience and Unbelief, are two conditions that are said to be, “The Greatest Tragedy of Mankind.”

Leave a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.