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Old News vs Good News

The resurgent nationalism that is testing international relationships and putting the brakes on globalism is a form of naturalism. It is normal and natural for us to have a protective family-like interest and love for our homeland.

But what kind of nationalism and naturalism serve the common good? And to what extent do they affect our dual citizenship and loyalty to Christ?

Miriam Webster defines nationalism as: a feeling that people have of being loyal to and proud of their country often with the belief that it is better and more important than other countries.

The same dictionary defines naturalism as:  action, inclination, or thought based only on natural desires and instincts.

Webster defines a kingdom as:  a country whose ruler is a king or queen or the spiritual world of which God is king.

As king of the Jews, and ultimately of a new world order Jesus said to a people long focused on their own Jewish nationalism, “If it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you” (Luke 11:20). On another occasion, when religious leaders asked him, “When will the Kingdom of God come?,” Jesus replied, “The Kingdom of God can’t be detected by visible signs. You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is! ’ or ‘It’s over there! ’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you” (Luke 17:20-21).

And yet, “Because the people of Israel were thinking that their long awaited restoration as a nation was about to happen, Jesus told them a story to correct the impression that the Kingdom of God would begin right away” (Luke 19:11).

This is part of that already/not yet that we keep bumping into. Followers of Christ are already under a different kind of leader, a new kind of authority, a new kind of law, love and warfare, a different kind of hope.

In his letter to people living in the shadow of the Empire, Paul wrote, “For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit?” (Rom 14:17).

To followers of Christ in Colosse, Paul wrote that God “has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son, who purchased our freedom and forgave our sins (Col 1:13-14). Paul wrote that just before repeating and declaring that Christ is the visible image of the invisible God (v15).

That’s just some of the background that needs to be considered in light of our understanding of a nationalism that amounts to—a feeling we have of being loyal to and proud of our own homeland often with the belief that our country is better and more important than other countries.

How far can we go, as citizens of Christ’s kingdom— on action, inclination, or thought based on our own natural desires and instincts?

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104 Responses to “Nationalism”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Since BTA is a worldwide blog site, one would hope that any or all nationalities of people be involved in the conversations here. I for one do enjoy hearing from other nationalities and the various views that may come up.

    The picture that Mart offered concerns an Israeli news story from what appears to be 2009.

    A nation is a common group of peoples often a family of peoples. Nations are spoken of all throughout the Bible and even after the Great Tribulation and during the 1000 year reign of Christ there will still be nations.

    God instituted nations when He divided the people after the great flood and instructed them to spread across the world.

    Though currently under attack from a “liberal” anti-christ mentality here in the USA our nation was founded on Christian values and Christian faith. A Christian nation.

    Here we as Christians feel as though our national values are threatened because of our Christianity. It is our faith as well as the control of our nation that is under attack. How then are we to respond to such a threat?

    Certainly prayer is the beginning point, but what else can we do?

    The Bible gives example after example of Israel being punished for her idolatry, are we then to think we will escape similar punishment?

    Are we all to become “Amish” then and hold no allegiance to any country only peacefully live among them? If you look closely there are no “Amish” settlements in any Islamic countries.

    God has plans for the nations of the world that bow to Jesus as Lord, and plans for those that don’t.

    As Mart mentioned we have a dual citizenship, but that does not mean we don’t support both in spirit and in deed.

    59 degrees and clear this morning in West Virginia.


  2. remarutho says:

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    We are at a dramatic season in the world concerning nationalism. The Arab Spring that caused hearts to beat faster five years ago has produced several failed states — Syria being one of the most ruined. Tomorrow, Britain will vote a referendum whether or not to be part of the European Union.

    We in the US will celebrate our Independence Day in a couple of weeks — in a year that may be a turning point in the form of our national unity. I pray our unity will hold by the constitutional democracy put into place 240 years ago.

    The ancient one-nation, one-language world was broken by God on the plain of Shinar (see Genesis 11). It was by a sovereign act of God changing language that the people were scattered over the whole earth.

    The natural mind remains in the fallen state. The repentant mind and heart turns toward God renouncing the world and its ways, establishing the soul’s citizenship in Christ’s kingdom, whatever language or nation it is part of.

    “…when religious leaders asked him, “When will the Kingdom of God come?,” Jesus replied, “The Kingdom of God can’t be detected by visible signs. You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is! ’ or ‘It’s over there! ’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you” (Luke 17:20-21).

    We live in the age of God’s grace in Christ. Whoever turns to God in true conviction of His power and grace, repents of his/her sin and begins to live for Him is a citizen of that divine kingdom. Paul told the churches of Galatia:

    “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

    When a worldly nation acts by its own will — in opposition to the will of God — sooner or later, be subjected to God’s authority, it seems to me. Consider how many nations have ceased to be over the centuries…

    Christ is our Head, King and Priest.


    50F and sunny here

  3. remarutho says:

    Hoped to say “will be subjected to God’s authority.”

    God is at work in all human hearts — calling, transforming and sending out His agents continuously. Hallelujah! Maru

  4. phpatato says:

    Good morning everyone

    As a Canadian…..

    I have mentioned before that I am an army brat. My father fought in World War II in campaigns in Holland, London and of course Normandy (to name a few) as well as the Korean Conflict and retired after serving his country for 26 years. Growing up (until my teen years) on military bases, I could not escape the deep-seeded feelings of pride and respect that he had instilled in the lives of his children for that Canadian Red Ensign, which later became a red Maple Leaf…..eh!

    I have never “owned” that feeling that my country was better than any other country. My view was that we are all in this together and like the body of Christ, we each bring a different strength to help make this world go round. In my eyes, viewing it that way did Not lessen my pride or respect for Canada, it strengthened it.

    It grieves me to say that with each passing day, with each passing law, with each passing incident, my view of Canada, the US and the world is becoming tarnished and tainted. I am becoming disillusioned. I see a world that I can barely recognise and I ask myself how could it deteriorate so much in just a short 62 years that I’ve been living in it.

    These days, I find myself like an alien in my own country, my own city. Although I don’t want anything bad to happen to it, I realise that it is best – for me – to detached myself from it all….a letting go of my worldly citizenship in a sense. It is like I am becoming cold and indifferent because I know there is nothing, right now, to stop the beast that is devouring all things “right”. It’s like am living in the “wrong” world; as though I am swimming upstream against a really strong current; “Beam me up Scotty” has taken on new meaning.

    No, I would never do harm to my Canada. It is just that I consider my other citizenship to be way more worthy and of much higher value. It is the one that really matters. And as, not if, Canada slides further into that dark and senseless abyss, I will have no problem letting go of having dual citizenship to having just one. When push comes to shove, I know which one I pray I will be loyal to and with the help of the Holy Spirit, I will be counted as a soldier of the Cross!!

    God help me!


  5. narrowpathseeker says:

    WOW!! For me THINKING can get very complicated!! Sometimes I feel EXACTLY like Pat(even had the SAME thought about feeling like swimming against the strong current was the only option left to be going the right way!!) Other times I feel exactly like Steve except that I have become not only anti Liberal but anti Conservative as well in the political realm. I see the Liberals being on the anything goes end of the spectrum and the Conservatives being on the morally pretentious end of the spectrum….both ends interested only in getting votes from those they appeal to in order to gain power to fulfill self serving agendas. THEN sometimes I wonder if in the time when I was so proud of being an American citizen, if our country was truly the great nation I thought it was or if I was just totally ignorant to what was going on behind the scenes OR am I still just as ignorant and just on a different course…. I THINK that THINKING can be somewhat painful for me…

  6. jeff1 says:

    I need to trust God on what He will do as regards to nations because only God can orchestrate events so that people will take notice of Him.

    I was born into a divided country and before war broke out here I seen myself as British/Irish.

    The war here was both political and religious so as a Protestant I took the side of the British and stopped seeing myself as Irish.

    I do not believe the way to win people’s hearts and minds is to use violence but it was the choice made by the IRA and as far as I see it alienated myself and many more like me from every wanting a United Ireland.

    This country is an example of what not to do because neither side honored God the way we should have and I live with that guilt because if it had been down to men like my father we would have honored God because my father was a righteous man but they where in the minority at that time.

    In this world the righteous are invisible but not in the next because God is in control whether men can see it or not because it is themselves they blind.

    I can trust God because He is trustworthy but I do not trust in my own understanding or anyone else’s because experience has taught me that neither others or myself get it right.

    What ever, will be, will be, the future is not ours to see but to continue trusting in the one who does know until we are taken home or He returns for us because I believe there is mystery to God that is there for our protection and that is why God does not reveal all to us until the appointed time.

  7. street says:

    It is normal and natural for us to have a protective family-like interest ….as i read this i think of self interest. thinking people believe or they start plotting, self interest.

    what kind of nationalism and naturalism serve the common good?
    none, they serve self.

    defines nationalism as: a feeling….beliefs based on feelings??? truth is much better foundation.

    Webster defines a kingdom as:…. the spiritual world of which God is king. could you say that the tangible world is also a spiritual world?

    How far can we go, as citizens of Christ’s kingdom— on action, inclination, or thought based on our own natural desires and instincts? no where, yet as citizens we will go in love joy and peace. the part that is unsettling is here and now, but i don’t think it should be.

    Followers of Christ are already under a different kind of leader, a new kind of authority, a new kind of law, love and warfare, a different kind of hope.
    the warfare caught my attention in that there is a spiritual warfare within and with out, Jesus said, “I have overcome the world.”…….even death.

  8. SFDBWV says:

    One of the superintendents of one of the coal mines I worked in considered himself to be an atheist, but on more than one occasion he was quoted as saying he liked the Christian men who worked for him best because they were honest, hardworking and gave him the least problems from his workforce.

    The scenario reminded me of Paul’s instruction to believers to be good citizens of whatever nation they inhabited.

    Good citizens contribute to the general population on all levels.
    Good citizens are givers, not takers.

    Looking at the micro responsibility of being a good citizen you see a good neighbor, a law abider and solid asset to their communities.

    None of those attributes are in conflict with being a good Christian.

    It is only when a government policy or law comes into conflict with being Christian do any problems arise. I might add that is why there is a United States of America.

    The old Soviet Union tried to erase Christianity from its “ideal” rule under the guidance of an atheist Karl Marx ideology. It failed, they failed.

    All and any “nation” that rejects Jesus Christ is doomed to failure, it is only a matter of time.

    The idea, the faith, the acceptance of Jesus into the hearts of people cannot be forced out of them by government. That will always remain no matter what flag flies over their capitol.

    Being Christian puts us in a common family that has no borders only a universal commonality of faith.

    Where we live is where God has planted us and where we live we owe a responsibility to be an example to all others in being a good neighbor and good citizen. That may include someday wearing a uniform in order to protect your extended family, giving blood when disaster occurs or supporting the efforts of your neighbors to protect yours and their way of life.

    There is nothing wrong with a nationalist view if there is nothing wrong with the view of your nation.

    A different slant on the subject when I come in next time.

    62 degrees thunder and rain.


  9. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Today, as we think together here, the British are voting whether to leave the EU or remain. It is a worldly tussle between strong nationalism and a more global neighborliness.

    We will know more soon. Commentators traveling around England have reported that those who are older, conservative, less educated, and rural tend to want their nation to leave the EU. Those who are younger, liberal, more educated and urban tend to want their nation to remain in the EU.

    The parable you cite in Luke 19, Mart, follows the story of Zaccheus. Though a Jew, he has been serving the Roman occupiers and skimming the profits. Jesus does not seem to judge him for collaborating with the nation’s enemy — rather, Jesus rejoices that he has put aside his greed and rejoined the people of God (sons of Abraham the man of faith).

    The parable in the second part of the chapter tells of the servants who reject the ruler, yet work to increase what he has entrusted to them. Though we wait for the fulfillment of the kingdom of God, we are not idle and passive, burying our gift in the ground.

    The Lord instructed the prophet,”Work for the city to which you have been exiled.” (Jeremiah 29:7) The nation in which you find yourself matters much less than your devotion to the Lord and His kingdom. We’re always agents of Christ’s kingdom, wherever we are, it seems to me.

    Joy Always,

    12C and cloudy with light drizzle. Rain forecast for the valley

  10. jeff1 says:

    I can be an agent of Christ’s kingdom in one area of life and fail in another where it was more important that I did behave like Christ.

    My father taught me that lesson that I have different strengths and weaknesses and may not always honor God when called to do so.

    That is why I must die to self because I cannot reach perfection without the supernatural work of God in me.

    I am only part of a bigger story which sees in the Kingdom of God on earth.

    Thou on my head in early youth didst smile;
    and, though rebellious and perverse meanwhile,
    thou hast not left me, oft as I left thee,
    on to the close , O Lord, abide with me.

  11. poohpity says:

    It would seem that as citizens of the Kingdom of God depending on our natural desires or instincts would show that our citizenship still lies in the world, because when God fills us with His desires and instincts it turns worldly thinking upside down, inside out and topsy-turvy. But our lives and actions do show who we are really devoted or loyal to.

    Are we Christians in name only? Like saying the USA is a Christian nation is like Hosea’s wife Gomer who was adulterous and unfaithful. The USA has Christians living here as well as many other religions just as they live all around the world in many countries and in many lands. People can say they are anything but it is not what they say but what they do and what they do is a reflection of where their loyalty lies.

    Many people who are not followers of Christ do good in their communities and may be the go to person that every one depends on but being a reflection of Christ and our loyalty to Him is how one handles disagreements, problem people, problem situations, those that most consider less than, wanting recognition, doing good for others to see, having peace when the world is in turmoil and basically trusting in God and following Him above all else.

    Who has your heart the country you live in and can see or the Kingdom and Person’s you can not see but know they are here, there and every where? Who really does have your daily devotion and your time throughout the day? Who is on your mind when you first wake up or the last thing when you go to bed at night? How much time do you spend with the whomever has your loyalty?

  12. jeff1 says:

    God is in our “Being” and it is by His miraculous work and nothing what so ever to do with me or my works or loyalty.

    It is by the miraculous work of the indwelling spirit that I have always been His because God chooses whom serves Him and not the other way around.

  13. street says:

    But what kind of nationalism and naturalism serve the common good? And to what extent do they affect our dual citizenship and loyalty to Christ?

    thinking of pecking order here or order of importance.
    we understand seeking first. some how i understand there is no division in Christ. yet we find division everywhere??? peace and harmony is elusive.

    they shall not enter My rest comes to mind.

  14. jeff1 says:

    I speak from my own experience that when I was doing too much thinking and questioning God I was not trusting Him but on my own understanding and fell flat on my face.

    Look at the circumstances of some of Jesus’s disciples yet they prayed and understood their testing would be for a future time when they would have to act for Jesus.

    Christ has chosen us for no easy task so do not be surprised if He ruffles our feathers to bring us out of our complacency and ready to be His followers in every sense of the word.

    Dividing was God’s plan and so is reuniting for my eyes have seen the Glory of the coming of the Lord.

    Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:
    He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
    He has loosed the fateful lightning
    of his terrible swift sword;
    His truth is marching on

    Glory, glory, hallelujah!
    Glory, glory, hallelujah!
    Glory, glory, hallelujah!
    His truth is marching on.

    I have seen Him in the watch-fires
    Of a hundred circling camps,
    they have builded Him an altar
    in the evening dews and damps:
    I can read His righteous sentence
    by the dim and flaring lamps:
    His day is marching on.

    He has sounded forth the trumpet
    that shall never call retreat:
    He is sifting out the hearts of men
    before His judgement seat:
    O be swift my soul to answer Him:
    be jubilant, my feet!
    Our God is marching on.

    In the beauty of the lilies
    Christ was born across the sea.
    with a glory in His bosom
    that transfigures you and me:
    as He died to make men holy.
    let us die to make men free.
    while God is marching on.

    He is coming like the Glory
    of the morning on the wave.
    He is wisdom to the mighty.
    He is honor to the brave:
    so the world shall be His footstool.
    and the soul of wrong His slave.
    Our God is marching on.

  15. poohpity says:

    But the Lord does not seem to work in a heart that does not want to let Him in. So it does have to do with us in one way we have to make that choice to let Him in and put Him first. He never forces His will or presence on anyone or else it would not be love.

  16. joycemb says:

    Street I’m thinking along the same lines, “depart from me I never knew you”. Chilling.

    I’m wondering if God really does use our natural inclinations. Does He really need our self-importance to “get the job done” so to speak. Are we to be proud of any part we play in this world or the next? Hmmm…Just thinking

  17. poohpity says:

    We have to make a choice for His Kingdom over the nations we live in.

  18. joycemb says:

    When we planned my sons funeral I asked 2 pastors to do it. One was from the church I then attended (more on the conservative side) and the other from a former church that knew my children as they grew up. When I asked which pastor would speak first my former pastor said there was a pecking order involved, even though I preferred him to speak more knowing it would be a more spiritual message. I’ve always thought of that, how protocol still prevails even amongst Christians. I suppose it has to do with keeping order in church, not literal but peaceful.

    Still struggling here with the tension of being in the world but not “of” the world.

  19. street says:

    I’m wondering if God really does use our natural inclinations.

    i don’t think God is hindered by sin, darkness, or anything else for that matter. i do understand He made the devil and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    one of the things you must keep in mind when reading the book of Job, and not get lost, is that job is righteous. when dealing with God and trying to understand what is going on, you must remember God is Good and free to use what He has made to accomplish His will.

    if we are made in His image, i think we should be good too. thinking that only happens in Christ.

  20. street says:

    one of the things i think about from time to time but not very long, because it is not relevant to reality is, could man understand the depth and love of God apart from the fall?

    the other thing that is apparent about suffering and affliction is that God, totally innocent, suffers pain and affliction too.
    thinking God suffered prior to the cross and that the cross put and end to suffering. sin even effects a Holy and Loving God. His Righteousness is Eternal.

  21. street says:

    God is waiting for two things to happen. one for the elect to come to maturity, 2 the wicked to come to maturity. there is no dual citizenship. i remind you the angles separate the sheep and the goats not man. even the sheep know they are unworthy servants. struggle/agonize to enter the narrow gate.

  22. street says:

    “Until the day when God shall deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is summed up in these words ‘Wait and Hope’” (Alexander Dumas).

    we are called to love too

  23. joycemb says:

    My apologies for being off the topic here.

    Street you raised the point that God no longer suffers since the cross. Yesterday in B. Study some mentioned how sad God must feel about sin, (child sacrifice specifically). I was thinking, I don’t think He feels sadness about anything since the cross makes it possible for even those who do such things to come to redemption. Thanks for verifying my thoughts.

  24. poohpity says:

    Pastor Jeremiah Steepek transformed himself into a homeless person and went to the 10,000 member church that he was to be introduced as the head pastor at that morning. He walked around his soon to be church for 30 minutes while it was filling with people for service….only 3 people out of the 7-10,000 people said hello to him. He asked people for change to buy food….NO ONE in the church gave him change. He went into the sanctuary to sit down in the front of the church and was asked by the ushers if he would please sit n the back. He greeted people to be greeted back with stares and dirty looks, with people looking down on him and judging him.

    As he sat in the back of the church, he listened to the church announcements and such. When all that was done, the elders went up and were excited to introduce the new pastor of the church to the congregation……..”We would like to introduce to you Pastor Jeremiah Steepek”….The congregation looked around clapping with joy and anticipation…..The homeless man sitting in the back stood up…..and started walking down the aisle…..the clapping stopped with ALL eyes on him….he walked up the altar and took the microphone from the elders (who were in on this) and paused for a moment….then he recited

    “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
    “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    After he recited this, he looked towards the congregation and told them all what he had experienced that morning…many began to cry and many heads were bowed in shame…. he then said….Today I see a gathering of people……not a church of Jesus Christ. The world has enough people, but not enough disciples…when will YOU decide to become disciples? He then dismissed service until next week…….Being a Christian is more than something you claim. I’ts something you live by and share with others.

    -Definitely food for thought.

  25. jeff1 says:

    The breaking news in our country this morning is that the UK has voted to leave the UK.

    In Northern Ireland and Scotland the vote was to remain.

    It has come as a shock to the nation as the polls where expecting the vote to remain.

  26. jeff1 says:

    Sorry, it is early and I am not thinking straight the UK has voted to leave Europe.

  27. SFDBWV says:

    Wow, Viv like you I am surprised to awaken to the news of the UK leaving the EU. As the last tally I seen before bed time last evening had it just the opposite with staying in the same percentage points as did this morning’s results to leave.

    No real majority there when it is that divided so evenly.

    A little unsettling and I am sure a lot disturbing to you and your neighbors.

    Prayers for you, your country and for your countrymen.


  28. SFDBWV says:

    When national events such as this democratic vote in the UK occur with all of the uncertainty and concern for economic stability it may have globally. It somehow dwarfs our attempts to just talk about our opinions or thoughts on some things, yet the subject is about nationality.

    Last evening as we watched the news it occurred to me that on a different yet similar level the departure from the EU for the UK was like when the CSA decided to leave the USA. The difference being the “Union” forced the states that elected to leave to stay. In essence the Union took away the sovereign powers of the states to have absolute control of its governing abilities.

    The song that Viv gave us yesterday was a war chant for the Union during the Civil War here in the USA.

    All the years that have passed since that awful conflict have not settled the issue in the minds of millions here and I would suppose the same resentment will remain there in the UK for some time to come.

    Strangely the inception of the EU was for many a sign of the “end times” as the “union” in that concept represented the “one world order” that would force its anti-christ policies on its populations and economically on the whole world.

    I suppose it is like all things we live where we live yet keep looking for that greener grass over yonder away from wherever we are, when things look bad; only to discover once we got there where we were wasn’t so bad after all.

    A cool 63 this morning under cloudy skies. The flooding that occurred here in West Virginia was south of us, we escaped any trouble here at all.


  29. SFDBWV says:

    Several months ago I opted to take one of those DNA tests that “Ancestor.com” had offered. I was curious to see what the results of my “ethnicity” would produce.

    I was surprised at some of the results and not at others.

    My linage covers quite a span of ancestors including Europe West, Ireland, Italy/Greece, Scandinavia, Great Britain, Iberian Peninsula, Europe East, and Finland/Northwest Russia, European Jewish, Southern Asia, Western Asia, and Caucasus.

    All of that DNA information tells me who I am physically, but not my “nationality”. My nationality, it seems, after all is where I live.

    My heart may be desirous to be with the Lord and in Spirit it is, yet until He takes me up with Him I remain here where I am and with that goes the responsibility to care for my family and my neighbors as God provides.


  30. foreverblessed says:

    Britain first, was the theme, Sounds very nationalistic.
    Funny thing is when you cooperate with other nations you are stronger.
    Many people just didn’t know the impact of their no.
    Simply thinking, less asylumseekers, so I vote for out.

    The idea of democracy is to vote for people to Be in the Government. Leading a country is a skill. Making decisions is a skill.
    Wow, these people had no clue what they were doing, and then a huge decisions is made on the ground of that fact.

    Nationalism can be such a nasty thing.
    How to end my comment in a positive way? God has been around some time, billion and billion of years, He has been many other stupid behavior, and yet still loved humanity, and forever will!

  31. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed, I see you too are disappointed in the outcome of the UK vote.

    I smiled when you said you wanted to end your comment on a positive note, I try to do the same thing though sometimes it is difficult to do.

    Reading the BBC News this morning I see where this decision has Scotland ready to leave the UK for its own independence and inclusion in the EU. The Republic of Ireland seen divorcing itself further from the UK as well.

    I am reminded often when I see democracy in action of the action of the Hebrew people while Moses was not present to stop it. They “elected” to build a golden calf. The results being dreadful for those who elected to side with the wrong choice.

    Here in the USA those with “influence” all too often use the votes of ignorant people to force an agenda over on a majority of people who only see the results after it is too late. A majority of people who choose not to vote and are guiltier than those who are used of others in order to get their agenda in place.

    Nationalism is the battle cry of the “Trump” campaign; “America First” and why such an ignorant blowhard has gotten as far as he has. Our problem is then that our next choice is “Jezebel” a power hungry liar with no conscience whatsoever.

    I do hope that God has mercy on us all and calls His Church up today to be with Him forever.

    We here in my house are ready to board the Ark.


  32. phpatato says:


    In my comment, when I said I felt it wise to detach myself from what I see happening in the wide world around me….

    “My heart may be desirous to be with the Lord and in Spirit it is, yet until He takes me up with Him I remain here where I am and with that goes the responsibility to care for my family and my neighbors as God provides.”……

    You have clarified in what you’ve said as to what I should have added and am trying to do. It can be very upsetting for me to see just how right wrong is becoming. I grieve at how dark this world is becoming. I find myself actually tearing up when I see the news and look at just how lost everyone seems to be…always wandering to find something better and never finding it. Lost people, angry people, so utterly blinded and deaf, scoffing and filled with contempt for anybody who doesn’t see things they way they do. For me, it is best that I concentrate on my little world – my family, neighbours and friends – to do what I can, to the best of my ability, to make their world a little nicer. As you say, it is my responsibility to try and do that. I can’t change the world but I can try to keep my candle shining in the little corner of the world that I live in.

    My Bible reading last night before turning off the light was Psalm 37:1-9.

    Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

    I must Trust in the Lord and continue to do good, Delight in the Lord, Commit my way unto the Lord, Rest in the Lord, and BE patient. Our Lord sees and knows how fast this old world is falling apart and He is in control of it all! I’ll try harder not to get angry at what is happening in Canada and around the world.

    For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.

    I have often given thought as to why I was born at this point of time in history and not say 100 years ago. It occurred to me that perhaps the good Lord knew that I wouldn’t be suited to the pioneer way of life. That perhaps I wasn’t resilient enough to do the hard work required to survive in such a hostile environment. He chose special people and gave them a fill of intestinal fortitude to live in those hard times. And then I realised that He chose me to live now, in what many are saying “the end of time”. There are days when I think that I am too weak to keep that candle shining; too weak to swim upstream against the raging current of popular thought. But it is then, in my weakness, that He whispers to me that He chose me to live now, and He will supply to me the intestinal fortitude to survive in this very hostile environment. And someday I will look back and see that there were many many times that there was only one set of footprints in the sand.

  33. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Once again, I am praying constitutional democracy will hold the nation (Britain) together. Looks like Scotland and N. Ireland may remain in the EU. Tough times ahead, I believe. Just heard the Dow Jones dropped 400 points at opening today.

    When I heard the news this morning, I thought of the days in the first years of the 20th c. when the US put up tariff walls and tried to protect what was “ours.” Sadly, it was war that blasted us out of our isolation. Praying the hand of the Lord will hold back a massive world conflict!

    Looking, like you Forever, to find a positive comment. Remembering Daniel, who was vindicated by his faithfulness and wisdom, even in the court of a ruthless conqueror. The Lord will never leave us nor forsake us.


    9C and partly cloudy here (or partly sunny, take your pick :o))

  34. poohpity says:

    I for one support Trump because I am so tired of the political class who’s only focus is in Washington DC that they no longer care what the people of the USA want. Job growth is stagnant, the middle class is being pushed down, so many people are out of work, businesses are being closed down by regulations and the cost of nationalized insurance rather than free market, nothing is being done to take care of our security domestic or foreign, laws are no longer being upheld, the three branches of our government no longer are preforming their individual functions but are interfering with each other, no one is listening to our military leaders nor their recommendations, cyber security is being infiltrated, our national debt is out of control and we need change.

    The UK even when they went into the EU kept their own currency. Most of the countries in the EU are going broke not able to even take care their citizens. The people voted. That alone to me is wonderful. It is time for change, things are not doing well all around the world but I attribute most to that to God not being acknowledged every where.

  35. joycemb says:

    Forever AMEN!

  36. jeff1 says:

    In rural areas the regulations set down by Europe on fishing and farming are crippling these ways of life which are so important to our communities.

    You need to be living in these communities to see how Europe is too far removed from helping them and so I agree that the UK did right to leave the EU.

    It works well for the richer people here in the UK but not for the ordinary folk hence the vote to leave.

  37. poohpity says:

    Viv, it is the same thing happening here. :-)

    Ephesians 2:11-4:16 NLT

  38. phpatato says:

    Jeff – It is much the same way here in Canada. Tariffs, quotas on the farming and fishing communities…well if Newfoundland didn’t strike oil, they’d still be a have not province. Fishing was such a huge part of their way of life.

    I don’t have the financial or political mind, background or knowledge to see the good or the bad of the UK’s decision. I can only say that as a Canadian with Canada being a Commonwealth country, I wish our “mother” country well and I hope it all works out good for them.

  39. phpatato says:


    I saw the NOAA map where a lot of rain has fallen on West Virginia. So glad to hear that your area missed all that flooding. Part of the comment under the map read ” most of this precipitation fell in just a few hours. 7+ inches of rain in the West Virginia hills is never a good thing.” I know now why you made mention of being ready to board the Ark.

    Glad you’re safe!


  40. foreverblessed says:

    O dear, since the UK has entered EU it has done better then before. The idea of the EU was to work together instead of making war. That the nations that lived so close together would not say, our country first!
    That they would trade together, not make war!
    Many regulations have done good, the acid rain problems have decreased, because of these measures taken. Welfare has gone better since EU started, but in the UK they have never worked with the social chapter, they opted out then. So who’s wrong is it?
    Some times the elite go for measures that are good for themselves, and then have a good story that it is good for everybody. And people believe it.

    We have a social country, and it works quite well, and we are not communistic.

    Anyway, I met some British people here in the Shop, and they are not happy. They said, it is all so silly, and we are very cross (angry that is)
    Reminds me of the Cross! God let Adam make a stupid decisions, He did not stop Him. In fact God was willing to suffer for the consequences in Jesus Christ!
    Yes, that’s our God!

  41. jeff1 says:

    Phpatato, I don’t believe that us ordinary folk do understand the political or financial aspect but see that in the practical sense it is not working.

    The politicians did not help as they where too busy scoring points over each other and scaremongering rather than sensible dialogue as to how it would affect our way of living.

    For me it was a case of if it is not broken it doesn’t need fixed but the state of our country today tells me something is badly wrong.

  42. phpatato says:


    It is the same here. Politicians are the same the world over. I am in full agreement of … if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it, and looking at Canada today, it is my opinion that the current crop of politicians – the Liberal Party federally and ESPECIALLY provincially- are doing badly and it all needs to be fixed for things are terribly wrong.


  43. poohpity says:

    The EU was putting into effect a global economy and a global currency run by a global unit. France, Germany, Italy, etc. have not been at war for years before the EU started. If you look at the economy of all those in the EU they are in a state of debt and going further into debt. They have no jobs and are raising the taxes on the people to support their excessive spending. Margret Thacher said, “”The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money”?

    Being in the EU is not protecting any one of the countries from terror. Look what happen in France and Brussels.

  44. jeff1 says:

    Very true Pooh, terrorists have been around for a long time and I have not seen the EU do much about them.

    It always ends up with America and Britain jumping to the defense of those being terrorized.

    Then they are branded war mongers for doing so, some of us just can’t won in this world, cannot seem to do right for doing wrong.

    Our clergyman has a sense of humor and it was bucketing from the heavens when he and I were getting out of the car and he said to me “Do you think God wanted us to remain in EU” and I wondered how can we know where God stands on matters that are so above our own understanding.

    Thank goodness this world is not my home I’m just a passing through!

  45. jeff1 says:

    I am reading a book on the Queen and want to share this poem quoted by her father, King George V1, on his Christmas Day broadcast in 1939, the year that this country went to war for the second time in a quarter of a century.

    I said to the man who stood at the Gate of the Year

    “Give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown”

    And he replied, “Go out into the darkness, and put your hand into the hand of God.

    That shall be to you better than light,and safer than a known way.”

  46. street says:

    i find it interesting that people think they can still negotiate a better deal on anything? thinking of abraham negotiating for sodom. we are not to seek deals with other nations even though i am a gentile. Jesus said it was the rich who drag you off to court and wage war with you. who steels from the poor? granted God disciplined israel for disobedience and kept His promise. seems to me we should be promise keepers and not plotters.

  47. foreverblessed says:

    Pooh you have not a clue what you are talking about Europe, do some more research, or other wise don’t talk about EU.

  48. foreverblessed says:

    But you are a loved child of God,

  49. poohpity says:

    forever, what did I say that leads you to tell me to shut up because I was speaking in ignorance. Tell me what leads you to think I do not have a clue specifically and where I was wrong? Everything I said about the EU was from research and so you are also saying that Viv does not know what she is talking about either.

    From my research of the bible I know I am a loved child of God. So saying that after telling me shut up is like stabbing me then saying here let me put a gauze pad on the bleeding. Very disingenuous.

  50. cbrown says:

    Pooh,first Forever did not tell you to “shut up”.She,said do not talk about something you do not know about. The EU has some of the strongest and some of the weakest economies
    The weak ones haveo been getting the press. Also,there goal is not be the global economy but to compete in the global economy. Have a good evening.

  51. poohpity says:

    Well Chris. The definition of shut up is: cause to stop talking in other words do not talk but her delusion is that I do not have a clue. Second I would not have presumed to say anything unless I have studied it. Supporting a global economy within the 28 well now the 27 countries in the EU. It is a case of supporting the wealthiest while neglecting the middle class and lower class. Immigration problems, economy problems, currency problems and political problems much to the neglect of the populous, the common everyday people and what they want.

    You have a good evening too. Maybe both of you need to do a little more research for yourselves before you accuse me of being clueless.

  52. poohpity says:

    I am not an expert on the EU nor did I suggest I was. I only shared what I do know about it. It is the same in the USA most know nothing about our Constitution or the Bill of Rights nor how our government works. I have trouble with my legs and back which prevents me from getting around so well but there is nothing wrong with my brain and besides my love of studying the things of God, I study politics, nature, cultures, and human behavior. So before I say anything it is important for me to make sure I lead no one astray in the things I say.

  53. joycemb says:

    Talking about religion and politics can be, well, deadly. Even amongst friends :-)

  54. poohpity says:

    My friends and I talk about religion, the bible, politics, ideas, happenings, feelings, failures, government, movies, books just about anything in a civil and respectful manner. We even hold each other accountable, encourage each other to be more and point out the good things we notice about each other. At the base of it all is honesty, grace, loyalty and love. We think before we speak and consider each others feelings before we spew anything out of our mouths. The times when we do say or do something that hurts someone we apologize and admit when we are wrong. We have in common a relationship with Christ first and foremost which helps in our relationship with each other. It takes work and humility to keep friends. I do not call people my friends flippantly that takes time to develop and grow. I know a lot of people but have only a few people I call friends.

  55. SFDBWV says:

    Prayers go up for my friends and neighbors to my south as the death toll rises to 20 this morning in the flooding in southern West Virginia.

    I am reminded about the flood of November, 1985 here in West Virginia where we lost 24 people in my county alone as 14 inches of rain fell in a 12 hour period. Mostly overnight and in the case here in Grant County most were old people who could not believe that the small creek down below their ancestral homes placed them in any danger.

    With such an occurrence, whatever you want to call it, nationalism or just plain compassion, people come together to aid and to comfort those impacted.

    Once again not in conflict with being Christian.


  56. SFDBWV says:

    Focusing on Mart’s last comment “How far can we go, as citizens of Christ’s Kingdom-on action, inclination, or thought based on our own natural desires and instincts?”

    There is actually a great deal of discussion subject matter in that question alone.

    Instinct is an unconscious reaction to any situation. How it developed into our DNA is huge in the science of determining just how such information is coded into our DNA to start with.

    If we were even moderately qualified to intelligently discuss the subject it would produce more hypothetical conclusion than scientific truth.

    The key though to Mart’s question is being a citizen of Christ’s Kingdom and whether being a citizen of heaven changes our natural desires and our instincts.

    The question then arises whether being a citizen of whatever country would also alter such base traits in our beings.

    In my intellect the concept of “being born again” seems to imply that we are born with a new and different nature once we accept the Lord and surrender to Christ our old nature.

    Is it our old nature we surrender or the ugly things of this world that we recognize as ugly and evil and are they the same things?

    It is said that “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13 KJV) Also “If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)

    If these are our conscience actions leading up to our being born again, then they are actions from our old nature.

    How far can we go? I think very far as I think being a citizen of Christ’s Kingdom improves our being a citizen of this world in whatever nation we live and among whatever family of mankind we share.

    Wet and foggy this morning as we had a little micro burst of our own yesterday that produced 0.90 inches of rain in 20 minutes.


  57. phpatato says:


    I saw pictures and video on the flooding. Such devastation! I am so glad your little corner has been spared! My thoughts and prayers are with everyone who is affected by the floods as well as rescue crews, support workers and relief aiders.

    I’m glad you are safe!


  58. joycemb says:

    Steve yes as followers of Christ we do what we can to help others in need! I’m sure you are doing plenty as always!

    The question of nationization is surely pertinent to what is happening in Europe and while we in the US can certainly claim the same feelings we really can’t know unless we live in or perhaps work in government just what is going on in other countries. Sadly part of the arrogance of US nationalism is thinking that not only are we superior but along with that its our right, if you will, to criticize and put down other nations. Our viewpoints are limited by what we read online and hear on always slanted news clips.

    I once had a prof who was from Canada and he pointed out to us Americans that we had no idea what the culture was really like there. As I began to slowly learn about it I had to confess I knew very little to be able to even to begin to understand the culture. So I’ve stopped judging other nations long ago. We are sent-out by Christ to love, not tell others they must change in order to be loved. Christ will judge the nations as He always has.

  59. remarutho says:

    Good Morning All —

    Heard a radio report this morning of elder-care givers in south West Virginia who waded through water up to their waists to move the 92 residents of their facility. Some begged neighbors for hospitality in their houses. Some simply took as many folks into their own homes as they could, to remove them from danger.

    The reporter made no comment about these care-givers’ national affiliation. Interesting. The human heart reveals its convictions more in action than in words, it seems to me.

    Jesus tells us:

    “Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.”

    James tells us:

    “Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.”

    Mart, you ask:

    “How far can we go, as citizens of Christ’s kingdom — on action, inclination, or thought based on our own natural desires and instincts?”

    These care-givers are living out their answer, in my opinion. They denied their “own natural desires and instincts,” didn’t they? Could they have done this in China, Venezuela or Switzerland?

    Joy all day,

    16C here. Forecast to reach 27C today!

  60. remarutho says:

    BTW, I believe these care-givers could and would do the same thing in any nation — even on any planet…Maru

  61. bubbles says:

    Yes, that nursing home was flooded; that little town is Richwood. It is devastated. The eastern part of WV is a mess and many have lost everything. As of last night 20 are dead. People here began organizing supplies and taking them to these counties early yesterday morning. Many roads have been washed away. West Virginia may be a poor state but we are rich with people who love the land and help and love each other.

  62. poohpity says:

    Thank you for sharing those beautiful stories of people reaching out and touching others in love.

  63. bubbles says:

    In an interview, Fred Rogers quoted his mother. He said she told him when there was a disaster, look for helpers. That is indeed what is occuring here.

  64. Loomis says:

    We are in deed tabernacling (is that a word) dwelling in tents in this world. Government has to protect it’s own people. Each country has a right to its own border. No country can be unresponsive to an invasion that threatens its way of life. This is happening today as millions are moving around mainly from the Islamic world unwilling to assimilate but on target to establish the peace of Allah. There’re large sections in England where this is already happened. If countries do not establish borders then in 50 years it will not matter. Europe and US will either be under siege or under the control the the peace of Allah. We are failing here to see the real cultural war that goes way beyond a few you jihadists on soft targets. Our faith sharing and living is illegal in the Crescent curtain. We have seen the beheadings and the discrimination. This storm is coming.

  65. remarutho says:

    Good Afternoon All —

    “In only the first 12 years of the 21st century, 69 movements to Christ of at least 1,000 baptized Muslim-background believers or 100 new worshiping fellowships have appeared.

    “These 21st century movements are not isolated to one or two corners of the world. They are taking place throughout the House of Islam: in sub-Saharan Africa, in the Persian world, in the Arab world, in Turkistan, in South Asia and in Southeast Asia.

    “Something is happening — something historic, something unprecedented.” –from “A Wind in the House of Islam” by David Garrison

    BTA, please pray for God to draw Muslims around the world to faith in Jesus Christ. National boundaries have lost their meaning in the heavenly battle for souls.

    Fear no enemy! “For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.”


  66. street says:

    loomis been thinking about spain when it was a christian power and fell and islam invaded. after about 400 years it drove them out. even so, they manage to stay out ww2. i wonder about this country? germany england and the usa seem to be struggling along with many other nations. i can not see truth not prevailing even if it gets real dark. almost home.

  67. jeff1 says:

    Just thinking I have never doubted the bible but men’s interpretation of it.

    God’s plan is going according to His plan should any man boast!

  68. joycemb says:

    May your faith be strong as a mountain wall,
    And subtle as the early morning mists.
    May you believe that God’s power conquers all,
    And his love through trouble and pain persists.
    May your faith soar like a multi-colored bird,
    And shine brighter than the blinding desert sun.
    Because you know your prayers are ever heard
    And Jesus waits when the final day is done.
    And may God bless you,
    The Father who rules the starry skies,
    The Son who rose from the dead,
    And the Spirit who comes in hope.

    Fr. Andrew M. Greeley

  69. SFDBWV says:

    It is in no small measure that we speak of “Nationalism” as Canada Day (July 1) and the Fourth of July approach.

    I offer two pieces of literature for the subject and your interest.

    First the last paragraph of Daniel Webster’s oration concerning the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
    “Sir, before God, I believe the hour has come. My judgment approves this measure, and my whole heart is in it. All that I have, and all that I am, and all that I hope in this life, I am now ready here to stake upon it; and I leave off as I began, that live or die, survive or perish, I am for the Declaration. It is my living sentiment, and by the blessing of God, it shall be my dying sentiment,-Independence now, and independence forever.”

    Secondly a poem by Sir Walter Scott, from “The Lady of the last Minstrel”
    “Breathes there the man with soul so dead
    Who never to himself hath said,
    This is my own, my native land!
    Whose heart hath ne’er within him burned,
    As home his footsteps he hath turned
    From wandering on a foreign strand?
    If such there breathe, go mark him well;
    For him no minstrel raptures swell;
    High though his titles, proud his name,
    Bondless his wealth as wish can claim,
    Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
    The wretch, concerned all in self,
    Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
    And, doubly dying, shall go down
    To the vile dust from whence he sprung,
    Unwept, unhonored, and unsung.”

    54 and foggy in the mountains of West Virginia.


  70. remarutho says:

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    The life we make is in our own land, unless we have been uprooted and made to wander. Consider those who have seen a devastation of their homes and loss of their livelihood so complete that they have bundled up a few belongings and run for safety.

    In West Virginia, folks have lost the home they planned to retire in — with all the memories and treasures of a lifetime. Last I heard, the death count is at 24 persons.

    The Lord offers His own the consolations of His faithful ones in the blessed Holy Spirit —

    John Wesley wrote in his journal in 1739:

    “I look upon all the world as my parish; thus far I mean, that in whatever part of it I am, I judge it meet, right, and my bounden duty to declare unto all that are willing to hear, the glad tidings of salvation.” June 11, 1739


    14C and clear here in the valley. Forecast to be 33C.

  71. poohpity says:

    29C now with a forecast of 44C here in other words hot with hopes of it getting hotter, :-)

    God created this whole world and all it’s people. Shows no favoritism towards any of them and loves them all. It seems with the hopes that His home will be filled to over flowing with many and many more to come. The key to His front door is given to anyone who asks in whatever language they speak.

  72. jeff1 says:

    O, Church Arise (Keith & Kristyn Getty)

    O church arise and put your armour on
    hear the call of Christ our captain
    for now the weak can say that they are strong
    in the strength that God has given
    with shield of faith and belt of truth
    we’ll stand against the devil’s lies
    an army bold whose battle-cry is love
    reaching out to those in darkness

    our call to war to love the captive soul
    but to rage against the captor
    and with the sword that makes the wounded whole
    we will fight with faith and valour
    when faced with trials on every side
    we know the outcome is secure
    and Christ will have the prize for which He died
    and inheritance of nations

    come see the cross where love and mercy meet
    as the son of God is stricken
    then see His foes crushed beneath His feet
    for the conqueror has risen
    and as the stone is rolled away
    and Chris emerges from the grave
    this victory march continues till the day
    every eye and heart shall see Him

    so spirit come put strength in every stride
    give grace for every hurdle
    that we may run with faith to win the prize
    of a servant good and faithful
    as saints of old still line the way
    retelling triumphs of His grace
    we hear their calls and hunger for the day
    when with Chris we stand in glory

  73. jeff1 says:

    Sorry, when with Christ we stand in glory

  74. jeff1 says:

    In my more mature moments I understand that God is God and Savior of the universe.

    It is in my immature ones that I can behave like a spoilt child demanding God does things my way and it is then that I know His presence and His rebuke and I am overwhelmed to be His child when deep down in my heart I know I am not worthy.

    It is then that I agree with God that:

    “I am a sinner saved by grace”

    Thine be the glory, risen, conquering Son;
    endless is the victory, thou o’er death hast won;
    angels in bright raiment rolled the stone away,
    kept the folded grave clothes where thy body lay.

    Thine be the glory, risen, conquering Son,
    Endless is the vict’ry, thou o’er death has won.

    Lo! Jesus meets us; risen from the tomb;
    Lovingly He greets us, scatters fear and gloom;
    let the church with gladness, hymns of triumph sing;
    for her Lord now liveth, death has lost its sting.

    Thine be the glory, risen conquering Son,
    Endless is the vict’ry, thou o’er death has won.

    No more we doubt thee, glorious Prince of Life;
    life is naught without thee; aide us in our strife;
    make us more than conquerors, through thy deathless love:
    bring us safe through Jordan to thy home above.

    Thine by the glory, risen conquering Son,
    Endless is the vict’ry, thou o’er death has won.

  75. joycemb says:


    I just read that it’s going to take 2 years for GB to adjust to changes after leaving the EU. I’m wondering how that will affect you and your country, now and later?

    Praying your deep faith in God will carry you through whatever happens.

    Love, Joyce

  76. street says:

    nationalism …Jesus died to make man free. why get back into bondage of contracts treaties debt? the market never disappeared shortsightedness is a form of control too. make man free.

  77. foreverblessed says:

    Sorry Pooh, I should have written:
    You are a wonderful and dearly loved child of God, and I like it when when you write about the grace of God through Christ. But what you write about the EU makes me wonder, where do you get your information from? To give such a grave view of the EU.
    Thank Chris for your backup, and the more nuance you give.
    I thought that Mart here on this blog was for the Nuance. Viewing from many sides. But what Pooh wrote, is all the bad news, and only the bad, and then make a story what EU is like.
    Thanks Chris for your comment, that was a good nuance.

    Thanks Jeff1 for all your songs and words. Thanks Joyce for your concern.
    Maybe we will have a good holiday in England, because the pound will be much cheaper to us.
    For me, not much will change, I think. But I feel sorry for the British. It will have a huge impact for them.
    They want a union with Europe, and have only the nice things to go for them, and not the more difficult parts. I do no think the people who voted knew what they were doing. Not the impact of what they have decided.
    You could watch the CNN and listen to the interview with Matthew Paris.

    It does so remind me of what Adam and Eve did, they did not know the consequences. The serpent only gave the positive view, “You will be master of your own life now” he left out the negative parts:
    “Now you are on your own, without God, you have to do it yourself. You will not be backed up anymore.”

    But as I said before, God accepted their choice.
    And was willing to cover all the bad consequences, wipe them out in the Cross, all though Jesus would have to die to the Cross, to our sins, to our shortcomings. What a mindset God has.
    Am I willing to suffer for the consequences of a bad choice of my fellow man?

  78. poohpity says:

    forever, maybe you need to go back and read what I wrote again. I did not have a grave view of the EU that is an assumption on your part. I will always be excited for people to have their voices heard when they vote. It may look difficult now because change is always hard to accept at first. It was hard for the people to accept the EU when it started also. I got my info off the computer about the EU, what it is and what they wanted it to be and whether it is working. Just like any other joining of countries there will always be successes and problems as there are in any relationship.

    I listen to more than one source of media and that is not biased toward the liberal agenda but gives all sides. Then I usually check it out on the internet for the facts because most media is biased one way or the other.

    Did God tell Adam and Eve “now you are on your own, without God, you have to it yourself”? From what I have read God never left them alone without His help. After God covered them when they found out the difference in right and wrong, He did not want them to eat from the tree of life so that they would live eternally in their fallen state.

  79. joycemb says:

    I hope you have a good holiday in England! There seems to always be some good that comes out of bad situations. Keep up the faith!

  80. poohpity says:

    Even in our country many people believe and trust what the media shares about things and never question or check out the facts. In fact not many even know how our government works but the legal aliens that come to live here do because they have to study it before they can become citizens but the regular everyday citizen really has no idea or clue. That is true in most countries as well. People just live in their nation and take for granted how things work, why they work or even if they work so they do not know if there needs to be change if it does not effect their little communities or neighborhoods. They vote by party not for the person, they do not read the bills presented in Congress or even contact their representatives to ask them to vote according to the majority in their districts. Most citizens are not involved in what goes on in our country until it effects their everyday life one day then they complain and grumble but are not involved in the process.

    That also applies to citizens of the Kingdom of God, they do not learn about God or His character or know very much about Him but from what they are told from media and other people, rarely do they check out for themselves.

  81. poohpity says:

    Joyce, forever does not live in England. I believe she lives in the Netherlands.

  82. poohpity says:

    I would so enjoy hearing from Bob and hear what he has to say about all this. I am also thankful for Viv sharing what she thinks about this since she lives in Ireland which is part of the UK.

  83. poohpity says:

    loomis, it is good to hear from you too!! It has been a while since you added to the conversation. I agree that so much of this has to do with the massive influx of immigrants.

  84. joycemb says:

    Pooh forever said she is going on HOLIDAY to England. Reread her post.

  85. joycemb says:

    Pooh I do agree with forever that you write about bad news critical of others- Christians and citizens as shown in your post of 8:37. That cynicism is in opposition to the writing you do about grace, and this blog about the difference between nationalism and the KOG. The point being cynicism has no place in spiritual matters of which we all need to focus on more.

    That said, her point was very valid.

  86. poohpity says:

    Yes I did not read that, so forgive me for pointing out she was not from England. I was wrong.

    As for the rest of what you said sounds more like a description of you than it does me. I am sure God would have you look at your own faults, failures and shortcoming that He would have you to look at mine, as if you care about spiritual matters.

  87. joycemb says:

    Wow, just wow. really? wow. Please reread your 8;37 post, or didn’t you write that? It’s hard to refute black and white comments, but if you wish to, well, it’s your choice I guess.

  88. joycemb says:

    Pooh, are you ok?

  89. foreverblessed says:

    Well, God is with her, so all is well!
    And God is with us.
    Pooh, I find your comment on June 24 8.57 am
    “Most of the countries in the EU are going broke not able to even take care their citizens.” besides the reality.
    And you whole comment of that same day, 11.19 am, every sentence I could give another version, to make a nuance.
    And then your comment that you are well read, and not biased, and you saying you support Trump, it all makes me to say this one thing:
    I will ask God to bless you and to make His face shine on you. Numb 6:24-27
    This not only for yourselves, but for the happiness of my own soul, because I am positive that our Father in heaven is very well capable of leading us all. And I am very glad that He just does that.
    But I will add a warning: when you distrust the politicians, do not vote for an outsider who slants and shouts, and insults, who has his own businesses, and finds rules of a nation a hindrance for his own projects. Do you rely on him to do good for the poor?

  90. foreverblessed says:

    12 years ago, we had a new person participating in the elections, and he was an outsider, and was very rude, insulting the politicians, the insiders, and he was just shouting a lot of things, and he would do everything different. It was such a disaster. But the main worry that I had, was that he was so popular, that he was highest in the polls. He would become prime minister when elections would take place!
    I was so worried. And then, at a church housemeeting, we were praising and worshipping God together, and then I got the strong impression in my mind: You relax, I have everything in my hands. You go play in the garden,in the sandbox, like a little child, knowing that his parents runs the household.
    And that was it, and that is what I did.
    Now, that election did come, but before that time, that politician was killed by a mad man. And the party he had arranged in haste, with all incompetent people, was elected in the government, and it was all one big fight amongst each other. Within 2 years we had another election. And it took 10 years for normal relations within the parties to be established. Now we have this man with blond hair who is shouting a lot, he has formed a party where only he is the one menber, who has a say in what is happening, all his partners have no say. Very populistic. And I do not try to worry about it, as God has told me not to worry. He has everything in His Hands.

  91. foreverblessed says:

    I also thank Maru, for asking to pray for the muslim people. I really do appreciate that, you asking that!
    When I saw all the refugees from Syriah coming into Europe, I saw it as a sign that God was sending them to us, something like:Here they are, I want you to show the christian way of living.
    And when Angela Merkel was saying last summer, “we schaffen dass” I found it words from God. I was so overjoyed! But then the anti feelings developed: away with all those foreigners, and especially muslim foreigners! We do not want them. And people not willing to pay for them. We had many many more refugees when the Yougoslavian war was on. And we all took them up. And they are now part of our country.
    My son is part of a project in Nijmegen, where local people ask refugees to dine at their homes, once in a while. He met a young couple, and meeting them makes them less dangerous. Talk with foreigners, get to meet them, get to know each other!

  92. jeff1 says:

    Pooh, Forever and Joyce, I can tell you from my own observations that families disagree on whether to leave or stay in Europe and neither those who voted to remain are any more sure of whether they did right than those who voted to leave.

    I, was a leave voter but many of my friends where remain voters.

    My reasons are that 41 years ago my mother said we should not join Europe. One of the MP’s of that time was from Northern Ireland and he campaigned against joining and the people and the Government at that time wanted to crucify him for it and branded him racist.

    I do not believe my mother was racist but she had a better head for matters like that than I ever did and she said that geographically it would not work.

    Even the politicians in our countries are out of sync with the people; and Brussels, to my way of thinking is far from the man on the street.

    I believe it is interesting that in Wales those areas that voted leave where working class areas that are very dependent on EU money to sustain their employment so they did not vote leave for selfish reasons but how they see the regulations from Brussels affecting our everyday lives.

    Just look at how God orchestrates His will in the bible and He choose some of the most unlikely characters and certainly anything but obedient Christians.

    Do I trust God to work in hearts of men like Donald Trump or do I believe God can only works in hearts of Christians?

    From what I see in the bible God orchestrates His will through many characters and not all favorable from human perspective so let us remain trusting in the God who knows best because on matters as complex as Europe only He does know best.

    Pooh, you are correct most ordinary people I talked to admitted to not knowing which was best but most voted leave due to the restrictions being put on farmers and fishing which is a big part of our way of life here and the restrictions are detrimental to that way of life.

    Also the health service cannot cope with the numbers of people in their surgeries and as a result you could wait up to 3 weeks for an appointment with the doctor and you have a limited time he sees you for.

    I was talking to a man whose mother and father-in-law live in Spain and he said the hospital there where 1st class while ours here are in tatters yet Spain is a European country so why the difference?

    There is also laws that affect how criminals have so much rights that the perpetrators are thumbing their noses at the authorities because they know the laws are on their side.

    I am leaving this in God’s hands because I can only see from my perspective here in Northern Ireland while He has the bigger picture.

    Thanks be to God who makes all things well.

  93. street says:

    12 Then Job replied:

    “Doubtless you are the only people who matter,
    and wisdom will die with you!
    But I have a mind as well as you;
    I am not inferior to you.
    Who does not know all these things?

    “I have become a laughingstock to my friends,
    though I called on God and he answered—
    a mere laughingstock, though righteous and blameless!
    Those who are at ease have contempt for misfortune
    as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.
    The tents of marauders are undisturbed,
    and those who provoke God are secure—
    those God has in his hand.[b]

    “But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
    or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
    or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
    or let the fish in the sea inform you.
    Which of all these does not know
    that the hand of the Lord has done this?
    In his hand is the life of every creature
    and the breath of all mankind.
    Does not the ear test words
    as the tongue tastes food?
    Is not wisdom found among the aged?
    Does not long life bring understanding?

    “To God belong wisdom and power;
    counsel and understanding are his.
    What he tears down cannot be rebuilt;
    those he imprisons cannot be released.
    If he holds back the waters, there is drought;
    if he lets them loose, they devastate the land.
    To him belong strength and insight;
    both deceived and deceiver are his.
    He leads rulers away stripped
    and makes fools of judges.
    He takes off the shackles put on by kings
    and ties a loincloth[c] around their waist.
    He leads priests away stripped
    and overthrows officials long established.
    He silences the lips of trusted advisers
    and takes away the discernment of elders.
    He pours contempt on nobles
    and disarms the mighty.
    He reveals the deep things of darkness
    and brings utter darkness into the light.
    He makes nations great, and destroys them;
    he enlarges nations, and disperses them.
    He deprives the leaders of the earth of their reason;
    he makes them wander in a trackless waste.
    They grope in darkness with no light;
    he makes them stagger like drunkards.

  94. poohpity says:

    FYI for forever, I never said I was well read, I said I read and search to gather information before I say anything. There is a vast difference. I also said that most media is biased so I listen to all sides of issues before I form a conclusion. That sounds nothing like what you accused me of, now does it?

  95. joycemb says:

    Pooh, you are priceless :-). The Lord bless you and keep you, the Lord make his face to shine on you, the Lord give you his peace.

  96. poohpity says:

    Joyce, You giving me a blessing from the Lord is like a curse because God knows your heart and what comes out of your mouth and what is in your heart are two totally different things. It all seems so fake.

  97. joycemb says:

    Oh Pooh, you don’t know me at all. Trusting is hard for me also, but one thing I do trust is the power of God to change lives. Doesn’t matter what people say, as Forever said we are all in Gods hands and His Work in us will be completed, if we allow Him control; or even if we don’t as Job discovered He wins!!! Just be sure your foundation is secure. Are you following and obeying Him, or your carnal desires? The road is narrow, remember. The way of the cross is filled with trials and temptations but in the end it will be worth it all. Again, blessing you with all the power of God, that His purposes may be accomplished in and through you,

  98. joycemb says:


  99. poohpity says:

    “but no one can tame the tongue. It is restless and evil, full of deadly poison. 9 Sometimes it praises our Lord and Father, and sometimes it curses those who have been made in the image of God. 10 And so blessing and cursing come pouring out of the same mouth. Surely, my brothers and sisters, this is not right! 11 Does a spring of water bubble out with both fresh water and bitter water? 12 Does a fig tree produce olives, or a grapevine produce figs? No, and you can’t draw fresh water from a salty spring.

    13 If you are wise and understand God’s ways, prove it by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you are bitterly jealous and there is selfish ambition in your heart, don’t cover up the truth with boasting and lying. 15 For jealousy and selfishness are not God’s kind of wisdom. Such things are earthly, unspiritual, and demonic. 16 For wherever there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there you will find disorder and evil of every kind.

    17 But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and the fruit of good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere. 18 And those who are peacemakers will plant seeds of peace and reap a harvest of righteousness.

    Joyce you would do well to heed you own advice and just leave me to God. There is enough that needs to be done in you, why bother with me?

  100. joycemb says:

    “But no one can tame the tongue” James is right but God can!!! Submit to Him and follow His ways. As I said, the Way is narrow and not many find it. But I’m cheering For you dearly beloved child of God.

  101. jeff1 says:

    I think that is what is wrong in this world “no one can tame the tongue” and I am afraid to say that while I submit to God in one area I do not in another and every time I fail there is regret on my part for failure.

    The person God saved me from is myself for I would spend eternity in hell if it where not for Christ.

    I know people who can submit to God and it comes naturally to them with no effort on their part and yet I struggle so it is I who comes between God and me and I have no one to blame but myself.

    The weakness is in me and not in God but still He forgives me but the real difficulty comes in forgiving myself because it is not easy when history keeps repeating itself.

  102. street says:

    dear jeff you hit a raw nerve in me with taming the tongue. been thinking about this for quite some time and have not resolved it. thinking of isaiah being a man of unclean lips. we both know they come from an unclean heart. so what gives with my affection for four letter words? i understand it has anger or disapproval behind it. even in my thinking while driving a car i laugh at my thoughts of anticipating or observing other drivers and my colorful expo say of the unfolding events like a commentator. i guess i am easily amused. others not so much. i am just glad He loves me anyways.

    i understand i rarely use these words around children , but why when by myself? the real me? how do i look ? my own heart condemns me. looking for faithfulness gentleness self control.

  103. joycemb says:

    Ha ha street yep that seems to be where the proverbial rubber meets the road isn’t it. Knowing that God is in us even when no one is around. Maybe you just do it for personal entertainment? Or is it mistrust. I used to do a play by play commentary in my head also of other drivers. I don’t have much of a vocabulary but was always more fearful of others so felt I had to keep alert for what everyone was doing or maybe going to do wrong. Being alert is good but not to where it feels like a battlefield, which was my mindset at one time.

  104. street says:

    joycemb thinking about your comment of driving on a battlefield. thinking you could also drive in competition or in alert confidence and compassion. it’s funny how we get to select what mood we want to be in. even though difficult at times.

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