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Redemption

To be released— like a slave bought to be set free.

Something? Someone? Everything? Everyone?

However all-encompassing, narrow, or personal our thoughts, the Scriptures speak of redemption in earthshakingly, cosmic, and personal terms.

Who or what doesn’t need to be released from bondage in the grand scheme of redemption that has been set in motion by Jesus’s willingness to groan and die as a consequence of our ridiculously bizarre understanding of ourselves, our God, and our experiences.

What lie, betrayal, terribly mistaken idea, opinion, or belief doesn’t need to be redeemed from the insanity of the rebellion that is in the process of ruining everyone and everything?

Imagine the surprise of discovering that, in coming to our rescue, our God is in the process of redeeming (a) our confused understanding of him, (b) our misinterpretations of the Scriptures, (c) our unloving thoughts of those we fear, and (d) the hopelessness that inevitably seeps and creeps into every dark corner of our thoughts and lives.

In trying to imagine the wonder of our redemption, is it possible to exaggerate the importance of what has already happened— and the scope of the rescue that will eventually unfold before our own eyes—in Christ? (Romans 8:18-25)


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196 Responses to “Redemption”

  1. jeff1 says:

    Redeemed

    Redeemed, how I love to proclaim it!
    Redeemed by the blood of the Lamb;
    redeemed through His infinite mercy,
    His child, and forever I am.

    Redeemed, redeemed,
    Redeemed by the blood of the Lamb
    redeemed, redeemed,
    His child, and forever I am.

    Redeemed, and so happy in Jesus,
    no language, my rapture can tell;
    I know that the light of His presence
    with me doth continually dwell.

    Redeemed, redeemed,
    redeemed by the blood of the Lamb;
    redeemed, redeemed,
    His child, and forever I am.

    I think of my blessed Redeemer,
    I think of Him all the day long;
    I sing, for I cannot be silent;
    His love is the theme of my song.

    Redeemed, redeemed,
    redeemed by the blood of the Lamb;
    redeemed, redeemed,
    His child, and forever I am.

  2. tedmgossard says:

    Great question, Mart. I couldn’t agree more. Little are we aware of the scope of our redemption in Christ either what we might call microscopically, or telescopically. And the older I get, it seems the more I realize that given all the brokenness of life before me, and yes, a part of me. Thanks so much for this.

  3. poohpity says:

    While we are held within this flesh there seems to be only a glimpse of redemption. We groan as we are subjected in this body to the curse and can only experience our full redemption on the day we hope for when God’s true children will be given new bodies and along with those our full redemption into His glorious Kingdom. But while we remain here we are given the Holy Spirit for a foretaste of that Divine Glory.

  4. SFDBWV says:

    The very nature of our philosophy, our understanding of Scripture as well as everything and yes our faith, seems to both solidify and alter over time.

    As Ted has stated the older he gets…

    They have “Classic” Billy Graham sermons on nearly every day on our Christian TV network and as you watch or listen, though his message stays the same his delivery changed as he got older.

    His message has never changed because he stuck to offering Christ for every problem you face, he preached the “Cross” as an event that changed the world. Your world and mine, everyone’s. But his passion or sense of urgency cooled.

    Math and logic go hand and hand. It is that part of our “brain” that controls both and so they exist in our mind together. Faith though is found in our emotions and elsewhere in our brains and so logic doesn’t always play in the balance of our view of our faith.

    However putting it all together in our complete understanding of everything, our “philosophy” if you will brings us to a conclusion or a common core that makes sense to us puts things in balance and gives us peace.

    The surrender that we cannot control events eases our frustrations of trying to do so, the acceptance that God does control events gives us peace and assurance that in the end of all things everything will work out perfectly as God is Himself perfect.

    Believing that should give us rest and peace.

    I pray that today you all can rest in peace because you believe in Jesus as God and the message He brought to the world. A world He created.

    Steve

  5. joycemb says:

    I woke up with this hymn on my mind and have been singing it ever since:

    “I sing because I’m happy,
    I sing because I’m free,
    Oh His eye is on the sparrow-
    And I know He watches me”.
    (A favorite sung by Bev Shea at Billy Graham crusades for many years).

    Then Zephaniah 3:17 was brought to my attention and I thought of you, bubbles, and prayed you will find your peace today in your beloved saviors arms, a shelter from the storm.

  6. joycemb says:

    We are all in the process, yes, of learning and discovering the depth of the knowledge of grace given to us. Our final redemption will be a great and glorious surprise I’m guessing:-)

  7. bubbles says:

    Thank you for these thought, Mart. I learned something new from you again. Redemption of looking forward; won’t it be wonderful? All things will be understood then. I wonder if that experience will be similar to a student whose understanding is made clear, the light bulb coming on, when what they have been taught many times “clicks” in their mind? What a relief that will be!

  8. foreverblessed says:

    Citing Mart
    “our God is in the process of redeeming:
    our confused understanding of him,
    our misinterpretations of the Scriptures,
    our unloving thoughts of those we fear,
    and the hopelessness that inevitably seeps and creeps into every dark corner of our thoughts and lives.”

    The christians used to pray:
    Kyrie eleison

    Lord have mercy over us

    The lost state of our soul is much deeper then I can imagine, and the work of repararation is longer and deeper than I would have thougt.

    A few years ago Mart had a topic about a Psalm:
    Deep calls to deep
    Psalm 42:7

    Meaning that the depth of our being lost is deeper, but no matter how deep it is Christ goes deeper still.

    Lord prevent me from saying things that are presumptious, things I talk about who You are, and I do not have a clue of what I am really saying.
    Lord have mercy over me.

  9. joycemb says:

    Mart said “Imagine the surprise…”

    Hurting people hurt people. Takes a ton of grace to cover hurt sometimes, it seems.

  10. joycemb says:

    Cover=redeem

  11. remarutho says:

    Good Evening BTA Friends —

    So grateful for the prayers! Cannot say thank-you enough.
    Coming up against resistance, prayer is the best response —
    really the only response.

    Redemption is possible in Christ’s kingdom — always a wonder
    and a surprise.

    Blessings on each one,
    Maru

  12. poohpity says:

    This is the imagination of a redeemed person in a song;

    I can only imagine what it will be like
    When I walk, by your side
    I can only imagine what my eyes will see
    When you face is before me
    I can only imagine
    I can only imagine

    Surrounded by You glory
    What will my heart feel
    Will I dance for you Jesus
    Or in awe of You be still
    Will I stand in your presence
    Or to my knees will I fall
    Will I sing hallelujah
    Will I be able to speak at all
    I can only imagine
    I can only imagine

    I can only imagine when that day comes
    When I find myself standing in the Son
    I can only imagine when all I would do is forever
    Forever worship You
    I can only imagine
    I can only imagine

    Surrounded by Your glory
    What will my heart feel
    Will I dance for You, Jesus
    Or in awe of you be still
    Will I stand in your presence
    Or to my knees will I fall
    Will I sing hallelujah
    Will I be able to speak at all
    I can only imagine
    I can only imagine hey ya ah

    Surrounded by Your glory
    What will my heart feel
    Will I dance for You, Jesus
    Or in awe of you be still
    Will I stand in Your presence
    Or to my knees will I fall
    Will I sing hallelujah
    Will I be able to speak at all

    I can only imagine
    I can only imagine hey ya ah
    I can only imagine yeah yeah
    I can only imagine
    I can only imagine ey ey ey
    I can only imagine
    I can only imagine when all I will do
    Is forever, forever worship You
    I can only imagine

  13. joycemb says:

    Song of the Redeemed

    This is a song of the redeemed
    A song that every heart can sing
    Words of dedication ring
    To the King of Glory
    This is a cry of every tongue
    People of God we join as One
    Lifting our eyes we gladly run
    To the King of Glory

    God, You are all we’re looking for
    Yes, You are all we’re looking for

    This is a song of love to You
    A song of devotion ringing true
    You’ve won our hearts
    It’s all that we can give to You
    Rising again we’ll bless Your name
    Now we’ll never be the same
    You’ve won our hearts
    It’s all that we can give to You
    To You

    Hallelujah, Hallelujah

    Lyrics by Matt Mcoy

  14. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Maru, for asking about your brother! I am praying for him too.
    I had an inlaw, who had left the faith, and became an alcoholic. He also got different sort of strange illnesses. Like spots in his brain, someting like alzheimer, an auto-immune illnes. That gave him seizures. He was also a man who had his own life central, everything evolved about his own life, the life of others were of less importance to him. A bit narcisitic. Hard to be with. But also his body deteriorated. So he got to be a mess. I kept praying for him. Asking God to be mercifull to him. As God could get to the heart of John Newton, a very godless man, who wrote “Amazing Grace”, You can also get to the heart of this man.
    He was hospitalized in the end, no institute would have him anymore, as he would keep getting at alcohol.
    In the hospital he could not get to alcohol, and he became sober, he became also thankful, he saw the trouble people made to visit him and thanked for that. He even got mild!
    So I saw a change of heart, but had not seen him believing in Jesus.
    Then he died, I was called to come to the hospital, there was a lot of traffic on the road, so we took a byway, and were driving along the countryside, there was a great rainbow, very wide, but the cloud was hanging low, the rainbow seemed like a ladder going straight into the cloud, the clouds were drifting apart, there appeared a whole in it, and the rainbow became higher and smaller, the coulds became very red, extremely red. And then the clouds closed and the rainbow disappeared.
    I was flabbergasted!! Never had I seen such a thing, and the big thing was, it was all just above the hospital where the man had just died!
    I was looking at it, and in my heart I got the assurance that God said: He will be OK, do not worry.
    It was not in words, it was a knowing.

    So, yes, indeed, I do believe that God is more mercifull then we can imagine.
    I do not know how to interpret:
    John 3:18
    Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already.

    As I read it now, I see, that there is no time line given here, as of: at the moment of death that is the crucial time, God can do things after that, as He was doing with my in-law!

    But that is me, I do believe that God does not want anyone to perish, that maybe we will be busy in heaven forever, not only worshipping God all the time, but also helping people who come out of hell, and help them recover, stand by them. I do not know, but that is what I HOPE will be so, as it is said:
    LOVE ALWAYS HOPES
    these are verses out of the bible, 1 Cor 13:7

  15. poohpity says:

    It seems we may be talking about things we may not understand. If one came to believe at one time in their life their eternal destiny was secure at that point.(Romans 8:38 NLT) One can treat one who has walked away from faith in an unlovable manner and I suppose that will only prove the point Mart was making that we just do not understand or misinterpret God but thankfully God does not treat others as we do or think of them as we do but I am wondering if that is often what causes people to walk away from “professing Christianity” because it is all talk without the actions of Christ-likeness.

    John Newton had people in his life that showed him love and had hope in our God for changing his heart. The heart of the redeemed for the lost as Jesus did, not the high standards of religiosity of looking down on the suffering. My mom had that heart for me while I was under the influence of substances, I saw her love and God heard her prayers and did His work in my life. God after all is the only One who can change hearts and lives.

  16. Regina says:

    Good Morning, All!
    I pray that all is well in your lives! WELCOME back, Mart! :-) Feels kinda weird saying that because this is your blog… I was hoping (and getting ready to mention this on the previous blog) that you were OK! So, I’m happy that all is well with you, and I’m excited to see another blog topic (even though I’m still trying to read the others).

    I don’t have time to comment on this blog right now because I’m getting ready to do some chores. I do want to mention, however, before I head off to work, that today’s ODB devotional is really good! I was especially blessed by this paragraph and prayer:

    “Even when we’re physically limited, a smile, a word of encouragement, a prayer, or a display of faith during our trial can be used to minister to the diverse and interdependent body of Christ. When we serve the Lord, no job or act of love is too menial to matter.”

    Prayer…
    Dear Jesus, thank You for valuing us and using us to build up others. ~Amen.

    Love to all,
    Regina

  17. jeff1 says:

    You cannot help people who do not want to be helped and I have seen families loose hope with their loved ones because they have spent their lifetime hoping and praying for a change that never comes and so it is very much in God’s hands when all is said and done.

    Trusting God and not in our own understanding is always the better choice.

  18. remarutho says:

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    Agreeing with Vivien and Forever. Prayers going up for all here. God is always working to redeem what has been lost. Keep thinking of the Shepherd rejoicing over the one lost sheep He found. So He does.

    Even though these things are only through God’s glory and grace, we may still pray — and thank God that He sends His Holy Spirit without fail. As today’s ODB devotion says, “Nothing Is Useless.” May the Lord use our prayers to accomplish His will.

    It may be there is a minister of grace — seen or unseen — assigned to speak about or show my brother a glimpse of God’s love — His glory — His faithfulness. It is out of my hands, but not out of reach of Christ’s kingdom.

    Joy all day,
    Maru

    11C/52F here in the valley with clouds.

  19. jeff1 says:

    I should not limit God to my limited view of Him and you are correct Maru to leave it in God’s hands which are safe hands to be in.

    I can remember being with my mum when she was dying and she had lived an anxious life but I can remember the calm and peace she was at as she looked up into the sky and I knew God had touched her in a way I never could because I seen it in her eyes as well.

    The miraculous work of God that only He understands.

    Shackled by a heavy burden
    Need the Lord again and shame
    Then the hand of Jesus touched me
    And now I am no longer the same

    For He touched me, He touched me
    (He touched me) and what wonderful joy that foods my soul(and what a wonderful joy)
    Something happened and now I know
    He touched me and made me whole

    Oh since I met this blessed Saviour
    And since He cleansed and made me whole
    Oh I never cease, never cease to praise Him
    I’ll shout it while eternity rolls

    Oh He touched me, oh He touched me
    And oh what joy that floods my soul
    Something happened and now I know
    He touched me and made me whole

  20. poohpity says:

    Definition of redeem;
    1
    a : to buy back : repurchaseb : to get or win back

    2
    : to free from what distresses or harms: such asa : to free from captivity by payment of ransom : to extricate from or help to overcome something detrimentalc : to release from blame or debt : cleard : to free from the consequences of sin

    3
    : to change for the better : reform

    4
    : repair, restore

    Our relationship with God was once broken by rebellion, not that God walked away from us but that we walked away and tried to hide from Him. Something had to happen to restore that relationship so that we could approach God not in fear but in adoration. Although we can live in that freedom now it will never be fully understood until we see Him in that place that is kept from the consequences of rebellion and sin.

    The here and now (1 Peter 1:18-23 NLT)
    So you must live in reverent fear of him during your time here as “temporary residents.” 18 For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And it was not paid with mere gold or silver, which lose their value. 19 It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. 20 God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but now in these last days he has been revealed for your sake.

    21 Through Christ you have come to trust in God. And you have placed your faith and hope in God because he raised Christ from the dead and gave him great glory.

    22 You were cleansed from your sins when you obeyed the truth, so now you must show sincere love to each other as brothers and sisters.[d] Love each other deeply with all your heart.[e]

    23 For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end.

    The redemption for eternity (1 Peter 1:3-5 NLT)

    3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, 4 and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay. 5 And through your faith, God is protecting you by his power until you receive this salvation, which is ready to be revealed on the last day for all to see.

  21. SFDBWV says:

    Here in this venue of discussion we who choose to participate do so in order to perhaps air our thoughts, share our experiences with others and hopefully encourage some along the way.

    In a place meant to make us “think” all too often it does. I have began comments several times only to not have the time to finish or keep my train of thought going and so just delete and move on.

    In the earliest of my preadolescent discussions with others the concept that here on earth we its inhabitants are actually already in hell. That life here is hell.

    Hell in the idea that we are apart from God and suffering at many levels, mentally and physically.

    Then here comes the story of the Bible. A true and accurate explanation of the fact that this hell on earth began with the sin of our ancestors Adam and Eve and the brokenness of creation continues to this very day and hour.

    However there within the story is the promise of a “Redeemer” someone who would pay for our freedom from this hell we live in.

    Though it was the fault of Adam and Eve that earth became a living hell, it was God who transformed it from a paradise to a place of torment and so to God that this “payment” had to be made in order to restore creation to its original place and purpose.

    Held within the mystery of the Triune being of God, God became flesh and as the second part of the trilogy, the Son, was sacrificed for the sins of all mankind.

    Redeemed.

    Why then is the earth still a hellish place? My guess is because the story isn’t finished as there are “things” that have to take place in order for the story to finish out.

    We believers are now freed from an eternal punishment, even if we still have to endure the pain and suffering of living here on broken hellish earth. Our hope is no longer about living here and now, but about living after death from this place or being snatched away from it at the appropriate time.

    While we are here we are given a simple “rule” to love each other even as Jesus loves us. That sounds simple enough, but along with it comes a long list of explanations and codicils surrounding it.

    We cannot redeem anyone we can only share what we know and treat people in the way Jesus has ask us to while we await rescue from this awful place.

    For many the question remains, is everyone redeemed? Or are only those who accept Jesus as Lord redeemed?

    I will be back sometime later in this subject to address that, God willing.

    Steve

  22. joycemb says:

    Steve my understanding is that Christ redeemed us all. But we have to accept it to be with Him for eternity. We have a choice just as Adam and Eve made theirs a long time ago. Salvation is ever fluid, but only God is static. Even though some would like it if He conformed to their line of thinking which is all too common in a relativistic culture such as ours. We can however look forward to the new creation as we are new creations in Christ. What s hope we have! :-)

  23. street says:

    Who or what doesn’t need to be released from bondage in the grand scheme of redemption that has been set in motion by Jesus’s willingness to groan and die as a consequence of our ridiculously bizarre understanding of ourselves, our God, and our experiences.

    the dead need released from bondage, not the rich.
    Jesus said, ” all things are possible for God.”
    Matthew 19:23-27

  24. foreverblessed says:

    Yes Joyce, that is what I believe too:
    Christ died once and for ALL.
    So that is clear.
    But people have to believe in Jesus, and to accept Him as Lord over their heart.
    ALL who accept Jesus are redeemed.
    And otherwise they are not yet redeemed.

    And still going lost…
    When I write this it sounds like I know it all, but my hope is that it is like that.

    And that in eons and eons we will help those who cry for mercy!
    I hope that is so!

  25. street says:

    What lie, betrayal, terribly mistaken idea, opinion, or belief doesn’t need to be redeemed from the insanity of the rebellion that is in the process of ruining everyone and everything?

    redemption…….thinking everything has a history, a beginning.there is nothing in the tangible or intangible cosmos that doesn’t have history. that history has a beginning going back to Genesis. and God said,” it was Very Goood! ok i added some extra o’s. you get my point. anyway along a “different way”, rebelion, man, tripped, an understatement, the word used is fall. and i believe, complete, but God …………Jesus!

    redemption complete here now!!! mans conduct behavior completely irrelevant to what God has done in Christ Jesus. takes your breath way and gives new life. eternal life.

  26. street says:

    But people have to believe in Jesus, and to accept Him as Lord over their heart.
    ALL who accept Jesus are redeemed.
    And otherwise they are not yet redeemed.

    John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

    even paul speaks of a circumcision of the heart, and that not by the hands of man, but of God.

    yes i was dead to God too. did not care for Him or godliness.
    but He moved in and i agreed to to His Presents Will Word and Truth. His Spirit. the make over and overhaul of previous history has begun. i have to admit, not as fast as i would like, but oh so grateful and painful too! during the make over love joy and peace in Christ Jesus. if lacking love joy peace during make over, well it’s going to be a little more difficult, but not for God.

  27. street says:

    To be released— like a slave bought to be set free.

    Something? Someone? Everything? Everyone?

    released from something?

    released for someone?

    released for everything?

    released for everyone?

    John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

    Acts 4:10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health.

    Romans 1:18 [ Unbelief and Its Consequences ] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

    2 Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

    Ephesians 3:9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;

    Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

    Colossians 1:6 which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;

    Colossians 2:2 that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself,

    1 John 1:5 [ God Is Light ] This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.

    1 John 3:20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

  28. joycemb says:

    Forever blessed I’m wondering, what if we are wrong? I’m wondering if Mart has been leading us to possibly a different conclusion regarding salvation by way of a more all-encompassing model of grace. I am caught on his statement about misinterpreting scripture. Seems to be important in how we determine our standing in Gods economy. Just thinking…

  29. street says:

    is it possible to exaggerate the importance of what has already happened

    made in the image of God!

    the scope of the rescue that will eventually unfold before our own eyes

    conformed to the image of of Christ, in Christ, and through Christ.

    restored/redeemed stay alert/stay focused/stay humble these three remain faith hope and love.
    what a Savior!

  30. poohpity says:

    Imagining that what we are experiencing here, life in the flesh, is hell really misunderstands what hell actually is from what the bible says which I trust for truth. Hell is fire and torment as explained in Luke 16 for just one example that Jesus used with the poor beggar named Lazarus.

    “The pursuit of happiness is a matter of choice…it is a positive attitude we choose to express. It is not a gift delivered to our door each morning, nor does it come through the window. And it is certain that our circumstances are not the things that make us joyful. If we wait for them to get just right, we will never laugh again.” “Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.” “Deep, contended joy comes from a place of complete security and confidence [in God] – even in the midst of trial.”
    ― Charles R. Swindoll

    One day we can walk out our door and feel a great expression of joy just by looking at God’s creation, then the next day we can walk out that same door and feel we got the short end of the stick. That is not hell it is attitude. We have redemption to change the way we look at life, free from guilt and shame, to consider all that God has done and is still doing to offer us a new life, a new way of looking at things.

  31. jeff1 says:

    How we look at things does not change the reality of the world we live in and that is there is evil all around us and that our environment effects our minds and our hearts.

    When you live in a country where conflict poisons the society then I can look at the world through rose coloured spectacles if that’s what makes me joyful in Christ but I am not living in the real world.

    Christ lived in the real world, suffered in it, because He trusted His father in heaven and as followers we are to do likewise.

    Christ accepted He had to be sacrificed to save the world and since so many today have the truth of religions but not the truth of the gospel then the message is the same.

    We are witnesses to Christ in a world where religions are dominating the world stage.

    The victory is ours through Christ but the battles are very much ours as His followers who else is there to fight them!

    There is a green hill far away,
    Without a city wall,
    Where the dear Lord was crucified,
    Who died to save us all.

    We many not know, we cannot tell,
    What pains He had to bear,
    But we believe it was for us
    He hung and suffered there.

    There was no other good enough
    To pay the price of sin.
    He only could unlock the gate
    Of heav’n and let us in.

    Oh, dearly, dearly, has he loved!
    And we must love Him too,
    And TRUST IN HIS REDEEMING BLOOD,
    And TRY HIS WORKS TO DO.

  32. SFDBWV says:

    I have held on to what Foreverblessed said several subjects back in that here on BTA we were given from Mart a place where we could say I wonder, maybe if, let me express my thoughts…Without someone correcting or more to the point aligning our thoughts to their own, whether actually correct or not.

    It makes the experience of being here unpleasant and explains why there are only so few that say anything at all. When we are subjected to correction not by an authority, but rather by an opposition to our efforts.

    Every good thing in this world gets corrupted by something bad sooner or later and we all lose because of it something.

    Alas as has been said, “every wolf must suffer his fleas.”

    Hell is the absence of God. In the story of the rich man and the beggar there are two places a soul goes to after death. A place of torment and paradise. Point being this was before the redemption on the cross. During those 3 days Jesus was “dead” He entered “hell” and brought the message of the Gospel to all those souls who had died up to that point.

    The idea that we here on earth may coexist with both paradise and hell is easy when considered both paradise and hell are real but spiritual places separated by a boundary God has placed upon them all.

    The lake of fire does not come into the story until the end of all things as hell itself is thrown into this lake along with death and every dark and evil thing.

    The question being seeing that death and hell are not living entities what does this mean, they are thrown into a lake of fire?

    Perhaps it is because they are done away with forever.

    Recently one of my daily devotionals gave the Scripture verse message titled “God Hardened Hearts” Joshua 11:20 KJV it made me think if God hardened their hearts why didn’t He soften them and bring peace instead of war? Life instead of death? Prosperity instead of loss?

    The explanation given in the devotional was that God had given the Canaanites 400 years to come to God, but they just got worse, so He used the Israelites to destroy them.

    And so back to that time outside of time when Jesus brought the message of the Gospel to the dead. Do you suppose any of these Canaanite men women and children chose torment over paradise and stayed there in a place of torment or chose rather to accept Jesus’ terms of surrender and leave torment for paradise?

    If Jesus’ sacrifice redeemed all of mankind up to that point, why would it stop there and not be continued on until the end of all things when rebellion along with hell, and death are done away with forever.

    Is it the desire for “justice” that lay deep in our hearts that does not want what we consider undeserving people to be redeemed?

    Think just for the moment this concept. If salvation is a free gift of God and we do nothing to deserve it. The act an act of God alone, then why does our act of accepting it or not override God’s act of will?

    “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”

    Who is left out of Jesus’ request to the Father?

    If it is sin that nailed Him to the cross, whose or what sin is not included in this simple request from Jesus to the Father?

    I think in this concept of redemption we need to open our hearts rather that our minds to begin to understand the scope of what Jesus’ sacrifice means.

    64 degrees in the mountains this morning.

    Steve

  33. street says:

    Redemption vs law

    “If you find that Christianity exhausts you, draining you of your energy, then you are practicing religion rather than enjoying a relationship with Jesus Christ. Your walk with the Lord will not make you weary; it will invigorate you, restore your strength, and energize your life” (Matt. 11:28–29). ODB

  34. street says:

    thinking the transfer of power/life is through the yoke of Christ. the cross. we must take it up daily or the burden becomes unbearable. sin may seem light and easy at first but we know this is not the case from experience. forgiveness is a Great Gift. Grace is even Greater!

    still learning to delight in Your ways.

  35. joycemb says:

    Resting, trusting, reclining even! He is our peace and our place of rest/refuge. In Him I have complete confidence because I’ve walked the dark side of the world before. It can no longer touch me. Scare me at times, yes, but I await a better place where all my fears and anxieties will be gone. Resting….

  36. street says:

    Hell is the absence of God.Hell is the absence of God.

    death is the absence of God.

    hell is the place of eternal punishment by a Holy God on the unrighteous. hell is a place of unrelenting punishment. sometime we think it is here but that is not the case when everything here is temporal, save the soul of man, made in the image of God. redemption is a wonderful thing, for the Redeemer is a Wonderful God Who saves unrighteous people. this comment is for maru limited Atonement. i chafed against this idea till i understood what it meant.

    keep looking to Him Who is looking out for you, the Great Shepherd of our souls.

  37. poohpity says:

    It seems only unpleasant when we think we know it all and are unwilling to listen to opposing views or other observations or experiences with an open mind and a student’s heart.

    Steve and Viv, I feel sad knowing that Steve as you said you think life here is like hell or how you feel about it also Viv. Because I know it does not have to be that way when we look beyond our circumstances. Forgive me for trying to give an alternative way of thinking about things that comes straight from the pages of scripture. I know a lot of people do not want to be troubled by what the Lord says but it does help in changing our minds and attitudes about many things. It presents a whole new way by transforming the way we think and see things. I thought it would be encouraging but as I have learned on here it can be and most often is taken as a personal insult rather than another option.

  38. poohpity says:

    Romans 8:38-39 NLT

  39. poohpity says:

    This morning 5 people were shot because they were republicans, two of them were Congressmen. So life here in the USA can be also be troubling.

  40. jeff1 says:

    Pooh, I do not feel sad that God has saved me from myself as much as He has saved me from the world because that means there is hope for everyone and that is something to rejoice about.

    That the evil around me makes me sad, yes, because that means many still do not care about others and the hurt they inflict on others and after 30 years of violence the one thing I have learned is that vengeance is the Lord’s and not mine to deal with because when man a vengeances it ends up in tears.

  41. poohpity says:

    Darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God.

  42. poohpity says:

    The wonder of our redemption I often think about if one really understands all that that really means for the here and now much less for what is to come? The gratitude for what we do have rather than the longing for what we do not have. We have the steadfast love of God that endures forever first and foremost but we have things that if we do not take for granted things like running water, a roof over our heads, clothes, shoes, food, oh my the list could go on but we also can rather look at the things we do not have and that we want. We see that compared to many around the world we are rich beyond measure.

    Redemption helps us to focus on what God has done and if we do not think we are deserving it is a truly amazing thing. Beyond our childish attitude of what we think we are entitled to. Our redemption and restoration to a relationship with God is really something that many may take for granted but I don’t. I think it is something beyond anything I could have ever imagined could be possible.

  43. street says:

    Redemption

    saved from darkness, deception, evil, and death.

    given light truth goodness and life.

    brought to you in Christ through the blood of the lamb.

    it is work to believe in the One Who was sent.

    believing and obeying is easier than unbelief and disobedience.

    He, God, restores my soul and renews my strength with life!

  44. jeff1 says:

    Yes, evil is the absence of God and why men feel they have to fight against it to be on God’s side.

    Those who only have their own interests at heart use violence and hatred to terrorise people into doing what they want.

    The world is seeing such evil now and these are challenging times for many to live in.

    I think Pooh you do too much assuming on behalf of others.(Our redemption and restoration to a relationship with God is really something that many may take for granted but I don’t.)

    I used to assume myself until someone broke the word down for me and showed me the foolishness of my assuming.

    ASS/U/ME.

  45. street says:

    sometimes we forget what we have been saved from and saved to. our adversary is very good at deception. he is also a lier and accuser. our Redeemer is Champion, Provider, Protector, and True God.

    Revelation 22
    20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”

    Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

    21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

  46. joycemb says:

    Walking in another’s shoes is truly humbling.

  47. street says:

    evil is a privation of good.
    take an apple.
    take a rotten apple.
    the rotten part can not exist by it’s self.
    it is a privation of good.

    our Redeemer restores and renews that which is lacking, which is everything!

  48. joycemb says:

    Good street, looking at the Redeemer keeps our eyes off of the rottenness within ourselves–and others! Expectations of renewal within ourselves and others is a grace. Jesus have mercy us.

  49. street says:

    1 Thessalonians 5:1
    [ The Day of the Lord ] Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you,

    Hebrews 4:16
    Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

    Hebrews 5:12
    In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

    this applies to me too. we need to be in the habit of going to the One Who can help. thinking love joy and peace should be the norm of our redemption. as spurgeon says do away with all things that interfere with this. don’t miss the fact as Christ suffered we will too, yet His joy was before Him. where is our joy? could it be redemption?

  50. street says:

    was reading Isaiah 5 earlier and was reminded of it as i looked at the picture.

    thinking of the joy of success in the hunt only later to turn to lament. joy comes in the morning!

  51. poohpity says:

    Viv, sad you assume that was my thoughts. Are there not many who do not believe in God and who are living under what Jesus did but do not know about Him? That is not an assumption but a fact. If what I write does not apply to you then do not assume it does or that it was meant for you personally unless I write it to you specifically. Now that is assuming.

  52. poohpity says:

    Talk about an ass.

  53. mtman says:

    I think I agree with what Steve said: “here on BTA we were given from Mart a place where we could say I wonder, maybe if, let me express my thoughts…Without someone correcting or more to the point aligning our thoughts to their own, whether actually correct or not.

    It makes the experience of being here unpleasant and explains why there are only so few that say anything at all. When we are subjected to correction not by an authority, but rather by an opposition to our efforts”.

    Since I have returned to this site I have noted a few things. One, if you post your thoughts someone/s will extract what they want from them and/or totally take them out of context. Some won’t comment at all.

    In the final analysis I find that some will quote from something else, quote a hymn, or something that someone else has written. Some like to preach, and the topic goes off in another direction or just gets talked about infinitely and the subject disappears.

    We have a lot of deer around our home and often they will lay down close to the house and just look around and chew their cud. They chew it until all the flavor is gone and chewing is just an exercise to relax them for an hour or two. They could get up and get new grass but they just lay there chewing that cud in a sort of trance. That sort of reminds me of this site except the flavor is gone in the first or second comment but it just keeps being chewed up.

    Perhaps what Steve is saying (he can amplify if I’m wrong) is when a person posts a comment maybe they don’t post it to have it chewed up until there is nothing left and the original meaning is lost. Maybe they post it to widen the discussion or present a different viewpoint. In that respect I am in full agreement with Steve’s comments.

    Maybe the stimulation of honest discussion is absent and the dogma of the topic is simply repeated in various ways with each person saying the same thing but trying to present it differently. I am not learning much from this site nor do I feel stimulated which is why I comment infrequently.

  54. joycemb says:

    Well, sounds like some of us still have a lot to learn:-). That’s why I love this blog, as I personally have allowed God to teach me more about Himself and myself-a stark contrast still. There’s plenty of space to think and breathe here, really. Like someone said once or twice here God is in the white space of the written word. In the silence and reflecting. Be at peace my friend of the mountains. Graces to all voyagers here.

  55. joycemb says:

    Viv please excuse our little sister she does have a short fuse :-)

  56. jeff1 says:

    Pooh your post 10.08 am

    Whose thoughts did you write then because you do not say in the post that they are not your thoughts?

    Also if you read my post accurately you would see that I did not believe it applied to me because I said that you made assumptions of others.

    I think assumptions about others is misleading because they are just that guessing what others thoughts are so I think it is best to ask another their thoughts rather than to presume what they believe which so often leads to misunderstanding.

  57. bubbles says:

    The comments from the congresspeople impressed and touched me this morning. One congressman said the news does not focus on the fact that all of those at the capitol sincerely like each other. They will work out in the same fitness area and they leave their politics alone. He went on to say they were all there to make our country better. Today was when people looked at each other as plain people and did not have sides. Some things seem important, but why does it take something bad to fix perspectives. So much of what we think is important really is minor in the larger scheme. I wrote this before today’s comments were read. I was thinking about this in the car in traffice listening to NPR. Please know this was not written to upset or hurt anyone here. I love all of you.

  58. jeff1 says:

    Where I come from Joyce we call a spade a spade and are known for our dark sense of humour so I guess it is easy to misunderstand coming from different countries and cultures.

    I do not take offense for in this neck of the woods we are well known for our ability to laugh at ourselves as well as others.

    I love a good sense of humour even if the joke is on me.

    Thank you though for your thoughts which are very welcome!

  59. poohpity says:

    Forgive me for causing a ruckus again. I guess I just need to go to another site that likes to discuss the topics presented, that wants to grow deeper in their relationship and knowledge of God, the bible and is able to think beyond the basics. Folks that like to talk about ideas rather than themselves and likes to dig a little deeper into the meanings of Christian ease terminology and how it applies to everyday life.

    bubbles, this was my take away from today. What do people think will happen after the continual hate filled rhetoric against the Republican party and our President? People listen and see the movie stars, the riots in the streets not protests, what happens on college campuses limiting freedom of speech, biased media, even in the congressional sessions in DC how they talk to members of the current cabinet and administration then think it will have no consequences from those listening in the public. Hate begets hate, anger begets anger, prejudice begets prejudice, slander begets slander and now a man hates the Republicans so much he is willing to just shoot them because they are Republicans. Will it change the rage and hate that the Democrats have for Republicans because they think differently probably not because it is how the flesh works.

  60. jeff1 says:

    You are so good at putting blame on others Pooh that I do believe you are oblivious to the fact that you do put the blame on others and that is just how the flesh works alright so you may not be as mature as you think you are and that is just my take on your last comments.

  61. bubbles says:

    I wasn’t referring to the hate in our nation. I was stating that sometimes what is argued over here turns into strife, and is what we really want? I am a conservative and a dear friend from 33 years ago is as liberal as she can be. We are total opposites. I diagree with her stand on many things, so we do not talk about things we do not agree upon. We talk about other things. I love her and respect her even though I disagree. She is a veteran and I respect and am thankful for her service. I was maid of honor in ner wedding, and it was an honor to serve her. I would NEVER hurt her.

  62. poohpity says:

    Viv, I have never thought of myself as mature or better than anyone else because I am a student who likes to learn and there is no one on here that offers anything new to learn except how to hate, disrespect, misunderstand, misinterpret, mislead and stay stuck in the same ol, same ol everyday ways of the world which I already know enough about which is why I want to learn new things and open up to new revelations about God and that is certainly not here except for maybe 2 people who seem to want to learn as well, the rest seem satisfied with their status quo.

    bubbles, I was not saying anything about what you said I was saying what I learned from what has been happening in our country and MY take away which is only expressing what I see. I am neither (R) or (D) I am first a child of God then an American. It is quite unusual for someone serving in the military to be liberal. How can we grow if we only talk about things we agree on? If it is a solid intimate friendship usually they talk about everything and respect each other in the process of both disagreeing or agreeing.

  63. street says:

    sitting around chewing cud and passing gas. 6 or 7 billion people on the planet who can think and have an opinion. i have to say i turned off my tv a long time ago. most talk is just noise and unprofitable at that. when a person speaks what is on their mind, you who walk in the light, could you bless them with true light? could you give to them out of God’s infinite treasure of grace and truth with a full measure of love pressed down and over flowing?

    thinking of the redeemed apostles having heated disagreements some good some bad. do you think we would be more unified and holier than them?

    thinking why i listen to other people, one reason and one alone. sometimes God speaks through them. even an godless man. have you forgot what the high priest said about Jesus when they were plotting His death. can i remind you of the story of an ass? God still speaks and we miss a lot because we are tuned into a different station or not spending time with Him.

    iron sharpen iron. don’t expect light to reflect off a dull edge.

  64. joycemb says:

    Amen street.

  65. foreverblessed says:

    Amen Street

    Indeed Steve, I came here because Mart gave a place where we could give our thinking and meditation upon the Kingdom of God, just saying: I think…, or : could it be that….

    Pooh, is it really true you are open to discussion?

    This comment is meant only for Pooh, so please skip it if you are not Pooh.

    When I wrote about Genesis 1, that in Augustine’s view that it should not be taken as literal, so that christians would say: the sun was made on the 4th day, and so the moon too. That is should not be used as a means of explaining how the earth was formed.

    I did not feel that you were open to discussion, you felt that your interpretation of Genesis was rock solid, and not te be discussed.

    Your reaction was: “Then I would find out that I have been lied to. How could I believe anything else that is written in the bible”

    At that moment I felt a shock, I started praying to God: God, here is Pooh, when she comes in heaven and finds out that the earth is not literally made as written in Genesis, she will freak out, she will get very angry at you for having been lied to. She might even say: How do I know that Jesus died for me, and that I have been redeemed by His blood, if Genesis 1 is not literal. How can I believe You, God, any longer?

    Afte that came the topic on caring too much, meaning: I should not worry, I should lay this question before the Throne of God, and trust Him that He will work it out.

    BUt if you say, you are open to discussion, here my question to you Pooh is: Do you believe that Jesus is your Savior, the One that Redeemed you, even if you would find out that the earth was not literally made in 6 days?

    Is there any place in your thinking that you could say: my interpretation of Genesis 1 too much in a box, a literal box?

    So now I go on with askinga few more questions.

    Could it be that Genesis 1 is to be taken as an allegory, a poetic means that God used to describe somthing that was way too complicagted to explain, He wanted most of all to tell how the work of God is done in a human heart:

    For God, who said: Let Light shine out of darkness,

    made His Light to shine in our hearts, to us us the Light of the Glory of God in the face of Christ!
    2 Cor 4:6

    My take was; Could it be that Genesis 1 is still very very true, and the real Truth about Christ redeeming us, if the earth was not made in literal 6 days, and the sun and moon not on day 4?

    That the message of Genesis 1 is the message of how Christ will redeem each and every one that turns to Him, and that it describes how that work is done in a person inner life, starting with the Light being put on, on day 1.

    I am busy with a longtime bible study as to what other days means in God’s work in our heart.

    When I started to do that, there came a topic from mart about the beatitudes of matthew 5.

    I take them as beautitudes: We become a beauty when we follow the teaching of Jesus: blesses when we are poor in spirit. Blessed when we bless our enemies, blessed when we are being persecuted becaise of righteousness.

    As the earth became a beauty in the solar system, the earth that was without form and void, literally meaning chaos.

    From chaos into a beauty, that is what God could do with the earth, so if He can do that with the earth, He can certainly do that with us, even the hardened of hearts. In my humble opinion that could the great spiritual message of Genesis 1.

    God bless you much and much Pooh!
    And I myself really hope that you are open to this discussion, without saying to me that I am really very very wrong on this point.

  66. jeff1 says:

    Your last post tells me that you make assumptions about people even though you have a limited knowledge of them and that makes you human as we all do.

    As for what God is doing in another person’s life I have struggles enough understanding my own walk to know that there are many bends on the road.

    What really surprises me is that you have stayed on this blog since the majority only teaches you to hate, disrespect, misunderstand, mislead as if I felt that way I would have been gone long ago.

    I have learned a lot from my son who is an unbeliever but as Street says God still speaks through them.

    He has pointed out to me on many an occasions how I blame others i.e. my parents in particular for my shortcomings and they say what goes around comes around and now he is very good at pointing the finger at me for his shortcomings.

    We all have ulterior motives for pointing the finger and that’s why I find it best to listen to God’s convicting me because no matter how painful it is He has the right motives for doing it.

    God loves us enough to make us face the truth about ourselves and He will do that by any means i.e. my unbelieving son has been so many times the source of God’s message.

    If I have learned anything in this life it is that God is not choosey about who He uses to get His message across and I should not be choosey at listening to others whatever their status in this world because if God has chosen them to work through then He knows them a lot better than I do.

    My Jesus knows when I am lonely
    He knows each pain, He sees each care
    He understands each lonely heartache
    He understands because He cares

    My Jesus knows just what I need
    Oh yes! He knows just what I need
    He satisfies and every need supplies
    Yes, He knows just what I need

    My Jesus knows just what I need
    Oh yes! He knows just what I need
    He satisfies and every need supplies
    Yes, He knows just what I need

  67. jeff1 says:

    Sorry, I forgot to say Pooh my last post is for you.

  68. SFDBWV says:

    “What lie, betrayal, terribly mistaken idea, opinion, or belief doesn’t need to be redeemed from the insanity of the rebellion that is in the process of ruining everyone and everything?
    Imagine the surprise of discovering that, in coming to our rescue, our God is in the process of redeeming (a) our confused understanding of him, (b) our misinterpretations of the Scriptures, (c) our unloving thoughts of those we fear, and (d) the hopelessness that inevitably seeps and creeps into every dark corner of our thoughts and lives.”
    Mart DeHaan

    This honest observation from Mart about our skewed view of God, His plans, Scripture, each other and how it ruins everything is certainly evident here in our thread of conversation.

    It is just sad how every subject turns into an ugly uncomfortable confrontation. And it is not the subject that is in question, rather how one person can ruin everything for everyone else.

    Pooh has an enormous problem in that she thinks she must correct everyone’s ideas or thoughts. Correct them as she sees them.

    She thinks that this is how adult people communicate, never realizing that this is how immature people behave, not mature people and certainly not mature Christians.

    She seems to have lived in a life where people communicate by yelling and arguing in order to get their point made or have their turn at the floor.

    Sadly she has not learned that this only turns people away, ruins relationships and eventually can kill love.

    As has been said, nothing seems to work in attempting to open her eyes to the fact that this kind of behavior ruins the experience of being here for everyone except her. In the hope and intent that she will change. But nothing nor no one has succeeded in helping her see the error of her ways.

    So what do we do? Far too many have just left in disgust or only pop in once in a while when the air is cleaner and the stench of strife is not present.

    As for me, I do enjoy Mart’s subject matter and especially enjoy the friends and fellowship I have gained here. I have not let strife run me off, I have confronted it exposed it and now choose to ignore it,

    Every morning I pray for God to keep evil and the dark one far from my family, here and now I also pray for God to keep evil and that dark spirit far from BTA so that we can have an enjoyable time in fellowship together.

    I hope you all join me in such a request and that we can all breathe the fresh air of fellowship amidst freedom as a result of Jesus’ act of redemption.

    I am sorry to have had to say these things and hope that it may only bring healing and not more strife. Please bear with me as I would rather discuss redemption as Mart has presented it.

    1.59 inches of rain last evening in 45 minutes, 59 degrees and wet this morning under clear skies.

    Steve

  69. mtman says:

    A little scratch on the surface and the venom pours out. It appears to be a beat up on Pooh day which was not why I posted the comment I did.

    Street: you wrote – “thinking of the redeemed apostles having heated disagreements some good some bad. do you think we would be more unified and holier than them”? I think after over 2000 years we could learn something from the apostles by now and ‘could’ do better.

    My point about the cud being chewed by the ruminants here is that it seems sometimes the comments are chewed so long, that for myself at least, they lose their flavor. All that is left is a flavorless gob of nothing to take to heart of think about.

    As to listening to other people there is not a thing wrong with that but their comments if from God should be stated clearly enough to see that they are from God. Not lost or hidden in endless mutterings.

    Then there is the prospect of how they are presented. In an acceptable way and with clarity or talking down to us mortals from on high. Are they from personal experience of the person or a set of orders to follow? Are they clearly from the Holy Spirit or someone’s personal interpretation of something?

    It seems to me that the reading in ODB today fits this situation perfectly and the analysis was done by Mart. It seems folks are pointing out character flaws of Pooh and are not looking at their own contribution. If what I commented was offensive to you then maybe you are the one that needs to do some soul searching.

    In toto I have much to learn yet and my objection is I’m not learning it from this site. I see the possibility of a site like this but instead it seems to fall short of its potential. Should I go to another site or try to improve this site? I speak the truth from my heart and if it is offensive then perhaps the offended needs to be asking if they are the problem of solution.

  70. foreverblessed says:

    Steve, just to add to your comment:
    Love always hopes…
    So I pray that we will cultivate this love in us, that we always hope….
    God who formed the mountains, imagine how hard they are, and yet God formed them, and elevated them high into the air, there they are praising God.
    Just so God can form any heart!
    Please, always hope!

    And as someone encouraged us a long time ago:
    If you miss hope, ask for it
    “If anyone of you lacks wisdom (or in this case: Hope) he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault” James 1:5

    James 1:17-18
    Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

    And the next verse is very interesting in connection to this topic, that the Redemption of God is way bigger then we can imagine, that our own Redemption is the forerunner of many many more after us.

    “He chose to give birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all He created”

    (To me that last verse is a very good verse to combine the Calvinists and the Armenianists: God chooses us, but not that we be the only one, but that we be the firstfruits, others, that are not yet chosen, will follow later.)

  71. foreverblessed says:

    He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all He created. NIV
    James 1:18(KJV)

  72. jeff1 says:

    mtman 6.33 am post

    I certainly am not on a vendetta to beat up ‘Pooh’ as you put it but was trying to clarify my thoughts because it seemed to me that Pooh 3was making assumptions about how sad it was that I see the world as I do while I do not see it as sad but realistic.

    While we all put our hope and faith in Christ we are all very different with different ways of looking at life and experiences but I am not the only one who finds ‘Pooh’s choice of words disturbing and I will challenge her if I find it so because I feel it is right that I should not agree with her for the sake of agreeing when I do not.

    As for character flaws if I had a £1 for everytime someone has pointed out mine then I would be a very wealthy woman.

    Expect and accept criticism and people won’t disappoint you and you’ll get to know your faults better.

    God has loved you all your life regardless of your faults and I can only think of two people who have in my lifetime and that was my parents.

    Life on this earth is tough regardless of beliefs because we all have more faults than we care to admit which to my way of thinking makes me just as much part of the problem as the solution.

  73. mtman says:

    Indeed Jeff1. I find many of Pooh’s comments to be abrasive too. I have found that addressing them does no good. When I see them I just ignore them and let it slide.
    Your closing comment is excellent: “Life on this earth is tough regardless of beliefs because we all have more faults than we care to admit which to my way of thinking makes me just as much part of the problem as the solution”.

    I would like to add to it as follows: “Life is not only tough but passes very fast. So fast in fact that fretting over the little stuff is a colossal waste of time”.

  74. joycemb says:

    I had an interesting dream the other night that makes me think of this blog. I dreamed I was sent to work in a kitchen that had not had a dish or piece of silverware washed in a month and with 2 full kitchens actually, one within the other. I dutifully started the cleanup which barely made a dent after a couple hours. Another worker came in and asked how I like working where others had obviously not been doing their job for a while. I turned and said to her: I learned to pick my battles, and this is not one of them to fight over.

    What a gift God has given us! Peace!

  75. jeff1 says:

    It’s wonderful what God can teach us through others and I would go as far as saying if it where not for others examples I would be blind to my strengths and blind to my weaknesses and what ever I know and whatever I don’t know about God He wants us to care for each other as much as He cares for us and you are so right mtman we waste so much time quarrelling and fretting over the little stuff and when I do it myself or see others doing it, it makes me sad because I believe it makes God sad that we cannot put our differences behind us and put Him in front of us and look at His example alone to follow and if we focused on Him we would soon forget our differences and be walking with Him instead of wandering like lost sheep.

  76. poohpity says:

    Thank y’all for the feedback! Would you like me to give my feedback about each of you? I do not really have to because whatever faults you have found in me are the very faults you yourselves have. So go back and take a look at what you said about me and you will find a reflection of yourselves.

  77. joycemb says:

    How does that bring about change pooh?

  78. joycemb says:

    Why so bitter?

  79. joycemb says:

    Steve, why so bitter?

  80. poohpity says:

    Joyce, I do not expect to change anyone. Only God can do that and will do that for those who are in a relationship with Him.

    forever, I believed in Jesus Christ first and foremost before I even read the bible which was the very reason I even desired to read the bible because He put that desire to learn about Him in me. So I believe the account of creation as God explained to Moses to write down. I also believe that God has the power, the ability and authority if it says He created in a day then that is what He did. I may not understand how it is possible in my limited understanding but I know that God is God and nothing is beyond His abilities. I do not listen to nay sayer’s that try and discredit what it says by putting in their own understanding or try and bring science into it because scientists are only human beings trying to find answers for things that have no answers. So to me it is not about discussing it is about believing and taking in faith that what it says is true.

  81. poohpity says:

    Joyce, are you bitter?

  82. poohpity says:

    Praise the Lord!
    Praise the Lord from the heavens;
    praise him in the heights!
    2
    Praise him, all his angels;
    praise him, all his hosts!

    3
    Praise him, sun and moon,
    praise him, all you shining stars!
    4
    Praise him, you highest heavens,
    and you waters above the heavens!

    5
    Let them praise the name of the Lord!
    For he commanded and they were created.
    6
    And he established them forever and ever;
    he gave a decree, and it shall not pass away.[e]

    7
    Praise the Lord from the earth,
    you great sea creatures and all deeps,
    8
    fire and hail, snow and mist,
    stormy wind fulfilling his word!

    9
    Mountains and all hills,
    fruit trees and all cedars!
    10
    Beasts and all livestock,
    creeping things and flying birds!

    11
    Kings of the earth and all peoples,
    princes and all rulers of the earth!
    12
    Young men and maidens together,
    old men and children!

    13
    Let them praise the name of the Lord,
    for his name alone is exalted;
    his majesty is above earth and heaven.
    14
    He has raised up a horn for his people,
    praise for all his saints,
    for the people of Israel who are near to him.
    Praise the Lord!

  83. joycemb says:

    Not at all bitter pooh, but deflecting does not allow the fertile soil of change to work.

  84. jeff1 says:

    I would not limit God to my thinking Pooh, for God may very well reveal Himself through Science as many Scientists desire knowledge for good and not for harm.

    God looks at the motives remember and it is wrong to stereotype.

    Trusting God in our own walk is right but God is so much bigger than us.

  85. mtman says:

    Pooh: How would you like to be the recipient of this comment?
    “Thank y’all for the feedback! Would you like me to give my feedback about each of you? I do not really have to because whatever faults you have found in me are the very faults you yourselves have. So go back and take a look at what you said about me and you will find a reflection of yourselves”.

    No one is questioning your love for the Lord but some of your comments to others on this site do not reflect that love. They come across defensive and abrasive as in the above post.

    Seems to me you would have much to contribute to the discussion of topics if you would not be so ‘in your face’ with your comments.

    Instead, the defensive and abrasive comments only distract others, including myself, and the potential of the site suffers. It seems to me that your taking on or redirecting everyone else and their opinion (whether right or wrong – we have the right to be wrong) is relieving God of a large responsibility.

    If you perceive someone is wrong – let them be wrong. In short lighten up and work to be more civil. Get over the one day creation in Genesis. It is not so important that you alienate someone else over it.

    I don’t know that the others would say this to you – instead they strike back at some of your insulting comments; but you really need to lighten up in my opinion. That is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth.

  86. poohpity says:

    OK and all I am saying is that all of you have so many faults and failures of your own that mine should not be of that much importance until each of you are without them yourselves which we know is impossible. Looking at mine just takes your eyes off of God and your own. I embrace God’s grace because I know who I am and what I do which is why I understand about redemption, the greatest act that it is. But by looking at my faults and failures not your own it is hard to embrace redemption that has been gifted and undeserved to you.

  87. street says:

    it’s good to look into the mirror of the law from time to time. James reminds us that we tend to forget what we look like. yep we are still sinners, dang! thinking of the Lords prayer, give us our daily bread “and” forgive our trespasses….daily needs, yes every day we need bread and everyday we need forgiveness. where sin increased so did grace. this is our redemption. magnificent and glorious, totally beyond western and eastern thinking. all because of what God has done in Christ Jesus. God is not done with us and i can not comprehend God not completing the work. we are told the work is finished, and the Gardener goes about tending the Vine.

  88. joycemb says:

    Thinking that I can’t change but only God can change me is a cop out. When someone points out a way in me that is offensive- which I take seriously whether it comes from a believer or a non-believer- it is a gift, I do not fight back with words. Like I said pooh, you have a short fuse and you do fight back with words. How did Jesus respond when he was criticized and worse? He is our teacher and friend.

    I know whereof I speak as I get criticized here where I live, criticized for being a know-it-all, along with perceptions that I think I am better than others (which couldn’t be farther from the truth) But I don’t fight back I think “what are you teaching me Jesus”. Ouch, it’s painful but it’s so good for me. I’m learning to not share my pearls with those who don’t have the spiritual ears much less the education I have, and to just sit and listen more, like Jesus does, mostly.

    Education aside we are all followers of Christ hear which is the most important thing, and it does get messy at times. We will always have a lot to learn, every one of us.

  89. joycemb says:

    Pooh you are very important!

  90. joycemb says:

    Pooh I feel Christs love for you right now, and want what He wants for you to have.

  91. street says:

    In trying to imagine the wonder of our redemption, is it possible to exaggerate the importance of what has already happened….

    even if we could exaggerate what has happen, could darkness understand it? when/how/ the world is confronted with grace and truth it is confronted with things outside of their experience and understanding. Jesus grew in favor with the people when He grew up, but when He began carrying out His Fathers will, after His commissioning. He began and armed assault of a different kind. He was in satan’s backyard freeing people from slavery when there was no hope left. sometimes we forget we are followers and not owners. even though we are told of an inheritance. thinking the Holy Spirit is the Greatest Gift we have received to date. He comes with instructions too!

  92. jeff1 says:

    I used to feel I had to force my beliefs on others until I realized that it has to be a personal choice and not something you can coerce on anyone.

    I enjoy sharing with other believers and I find that non believers are respectful of my beliefs and some even say they wish they had faith in God but they just do not believe and I respect their honesty with me.

    I trust God with those I love who do not believe because I believe in a merciful God who will redeem us to Himself and make all things new in His time.

    I find refuge in Christ when I feel I am wandering from God and find peace in the knowledge that Christ died for sinners and that there is hope for us all because of this truth and feel I am blessed to believe when so many to day do not.

    I believe while I am on this earth there will always be room for improvement and as such I do not believe I am better or worse than another but equally in need of God’s indwelling Spirit to guide and comfort me at all times and especially in times of distress when I find my faith in God is the greatest gift I possess.

  93. street says:

    the surprise of discovering that, in coming to our rescue, our God is in the process of redeeming….. the hopelessness that inevitably seeps and creeps into every dark corner of our thoughts and lives.

    this one is a big one for me. as i grow older and see the loses mounting i can not deny them any more. renewed each day with hope and strength. even if He slay me i will trust in Him for He is God and His love is everlasting. i am so glad at the prospect of living without sin, death, and corruption, with a Great Savior.

  94. jeff1 says:

    As I grow older I find my faith in God has become more precious to me and definitely more personal.

    I am also more aware that it is I who is in need of God much more than God is in need of me and with that in mind I am becoming more humble and more thankful than I was in my younger years.

    The part that I love most is that I am becoming less judgemental of others and more aware of my own faults and it is in realizing that God loves me regardless that makes life worth living and death nothing to fear as I know God will be with me all the way.

  95. foreverblessed says:

    It is a wonderful day today, sun shining, birds singing.
    I wish we could sing together, and pray together, for people that need God!

    Pooh, so I take it that I upset you when I bring in science into genesis 1.

    So that is a bottom line for you, you can just say so.

    I am very sorry for having disturbed you, (and anyone else here). May God bless you and give you peace, as He also gives peace to me!

    I am going to listen to the birds singing, bringing praise to God.

  96. SFDBWV says:

    “What lie, betrayal, terribly mistaken idea, opinion, or belief doesn’t need to be redeemed from the insanity of the rebellion that is in the process of ruining everyone and everything?
    Imagine the surprise of discovering that, in coming to our rescue, our God is in the process of redeeming (a) our confused understanding of him, (b) our misinterpretations of the Scriptures, (c) our unloving thoughts of those we fear, and (d) the hopelessness that inevitably seeps and creeps into every dark corner of our thoughts and lives.”
    Mart DeHaan

    Some of us were indoctrinated in Christianity at such an early age we never remember when we first heard God’s Word or first attended Sunday school and most likely was baptized soon after birth.

    Being Christian was ingrained into our upbringing in such a way that we have never known anything but believing all we were taught as children.

    What a huge responsibility it is on a parent to ensure that their children are raised with Christ instituted into their hearts.

    For such folks as me and perhaps others there was never a real “Road to Damascus” event that opened our eyes and transformed us from one nature to another so abruptly. In truth for such people the story is more like the story of the lost son who squandered his inheritance and had to go through the humbling experience of realizing home was not so bad after all.

    The faith being he did have the inner sense to know what was in the end best for him.

    It is said in Scripture if you raise your children up in the Lord no matter where they may go in life that knowledge will never depart from them.

    I believe that to be true.

    I also believe it for most of us takes a lifetime of observing and experiencing life to produce the changes in our hearts and views to bring us to a more mellowed state of mind as we get older.

    In slow motion the Holy Spirit changes us as He matures us in alignment with His will and desires for us. He always know just when it is the right time for us to learn from Him and so patiently aids us in our growth to that point when we are ready to accept that which He is teaching us.

    If we in a hurry try to step ahead of God, we fail and when we fail it is in our confusion that we “question” God. When the truth is we just are not ready yet to understand the “truth”.

    We may find ourselves fighting with all our might for a misguided misunderstood idea only to learn all of that energy and angst was for naught.

    Yes I think there is a lot of things we know and more that we don’t know. But only when ready to accept the things we don’t know will God reveal them to us.

    It will take a lifetime, but take courage we will all make it and all will be revealed to us in His good time.

    In the meantime all we can really do is be good to each other and allow each of us to learn at our own individual rate, to be patient with us and be happy for us when we come to that point of knowing something you have known for years.

    Wet still in the mountains as more rain yesterday and last night, fog and drizzle this morning at 62 degrees.

    Steve

  97. jeff1 says:

    Forever, God can turn Science for good is the way I see it because that’s what He does when we mess up He cleans up whether that me in my personal life or in the world He does not discriminate.

    The difference in God and man to my way of thinking is that God trusts men more than they trust Him and it seems to me that God is not even bothered that they take the glory because He is more concerned with the outcome than the means to the end.

    The truth is men have little understanding of God for all their efforts to understand Him because the Creator is greater than His creation when all is said and done you either know this or you do not and I am not sure whether it matters to God either way because He holds the key to heaven and that makes Him the formidable force in my book.

    I love this prayer but I know nothing of fishing so this is for all the fishermen out there.

    Grant that I may live to fish.
    until my dying day.
    And when it ocmes to my last cast.
    I then most humbly pray.
    When in the Lord’s safe landing net.
    I’m peacefully asleep.
    That in His mercy I be judged.
    As big enough to keep.

  98. poohpity says:

    Which came first God or a scientist? Science is a profession of people trying to figure out how things began, how they work, cause and effect but most of which is based on presumptions and theories(guessing). Forever so it does not bother me in the least that you listen to them over God, that is a mountain you have to climb.

    Next being raised in a Christian home has never made one a Christian until that day of accountability comes when a person realizes they are a sinner in need of God’s grace. A child raised in a home where both parents are teachers does not make the child a teacher that child has to first have the desire to become a teacher then go through all the steps in learning to be a teacher if they so choose. I could not go to heaven based on the faith of my parents, nor does reading the bible make one a Christian or even attending church because there are many who have attended church all their life and read the bible, done bibles studies but still are not Christ followers.

    I am redeemed because I had to realize that there is something I needed to be redeemed from. It is God’s work in my life that showed me my need and the solution for that need. Nothing I could do myself except admit I needed something and turn from my ways to God then and only then does God begin a process in my life of redemption, getting me ready and preparing me for my full redemption on that day when I see Him face to face.

    Joyce if we were able to change ourselves then why don’t we? One may be able to stop a behavior for a short time but when confronted with similar circumstance the old behavior comes out again, so we need the power of something bigger than ourselves to accomplish that. Sometimes it happens all at once and sometimes it is a process that takes time.

    In that process it seems we learn of all the areas that need work in our own lives which keeps people humble enough to not look any further than the brokenness within. It seems rather silly for a broken vessel to try and fix another broken vessel but the wonder of pointing other broken vessels like ourselves to the very One who can redeem that broken vessel and make it whole again and useful.

  99. street says:

    Acts 8:9–25

  100. joycemb says:

    Pooh in response to you read Jeremiah 18, 19

  101. joycemb says:

    Chapters 18 & 19

  102. mtman says:

    Let’s broaden our understanding of science vs God. God gave man an inquiring mind and as man studies the natural order of things he makes discoveries. With each new discovery or scientific finding it all leads back to God in how he ordered the universe. therefore it seems to me that science and God go together. Science works to show Gods infinite and perfect work in the world.

    There can be seriously wrong scientific findings also. That man evolved from ape’s and the big bang theory are two that come to mind. However, the more man (scientists) discover the more it all points to God. It is not wrong to trust in science because it points to God and ultimately leads to trust in our savior.

    Point 2: “It seems rather silly for a broken vessel to try and fix another broken vessel”. That does not hold water for me. (no pun intended). It takes a drunk to help a drunk. Those who have never had a problem with addiction have no idea what it is like and those who know what it is like know how to help those who want to recover. In short you need to know what to fix from experience to help others going through the same problem. Not to say that random healing doesn’t happen, which is why Alcoholics Anonymous is successful.

    God does the healing but He does it though those who understand the need and can use that experience to help others.

    I say if you want to believe in science go for it. It will ultimately lead to God as there are numerous points to scientific discovery that can lead to no other conclusion. Many different paths lead to the same village.

  103. poohpity says:

    Yes Jeremiah had repeatedly asked the people to turn back to God and go without contention or fighting back into the captivity of Babylon and they would be spared destruction but they made the choice to fight back and many lives were lost. Those that went to Babylon peacefully prospered and made a life there with God’s direction and protection while they were in captivity for 70 years. People did not listen to the warnings of most every prophet that was sent to them, they got tortured, spoken ill of, beaten, chased, treated horribly just like they did to Jesus. That is common for people that follow God, I think that is why the bible says to count the cost before you choose that way of life because it is not easy. If the world hated Jesus they will hate us as well. John 15:18-20 NLT

  104. poohpity says:

    Good points mtman!

    The reason that a recovering alcoholic can help another maybe still practicing alcoholic is empathy(understanding the journey) but the program in the second step says to turn everything over to God who is the One to change us but always the first step to to admit we have a problem.

  105. joycemb says:

    God is asking for change, not talking points.

  106. poohpity says:

    It seems God is asking us for change alright but to change in whom we believe, God not ourselves also the path we are on and to look to Him instead of following our own way. God asks us to trust Him and to come to Him as we are. Micah 6:8 NLT

  107. jeff1 says:

    I have known a lot of alcoholics (the curse of the Irish) both family and friends and those who succeeded where those with the will to want to.

    As many I know did not have the will because they where self destructive and that is very sad to see because some of them I knew to be the nicest of people who could not see that they where worthy of God’s love but I believe God sees their pain and suffering and understands their struggle and will remember them when all others forget.

    O the deep, deep love of Jesus, vast unmeasured, boundless, free
    Rolling as a mighty ocean, in its fullness over me
    Underneath me, all around me, is Thy current of Thy love
    Leading onward, leading homeward to Thy glorious rest above

    O the deep, deep love of Jesus, spread His praise from shore to shore
    How He loveth, ever loveth, changeth never, evermore
    How He watches o’er His loved ones, died to call them all His own
    How for them He intercedeth, watcheth o’er them from the throne.

    O the deep, deep love of Jesus, ’tis a heav’n of heav’ns to me
    And it lifts me up to glory, for it lifts me up to Thee, yeah
    (Incomprehensible)

    And it lifts me up to glory

  108. joycemb says:

    Yes we first must change our mind about Who we believe. The point of Jeremiahs prophecies were that the people had turned to other gods and though they were warned to turn back they refused to change and were destroyed. Jeremiah 19:15. James 5:19

    I’m sharing on a different level here. I see where you are coming from though. No problem.

    God loves you very much pooh.

  109. joycemb says:

    Thank you viv that’s a favorite hymn of mine.

    Repent: change direction by change of heart.

  110. street says:

    thinking about thinking,
    My ways are not your ways,
    My thoughts are not your thoughts.

    sure i think about things and other people and my thoughts are rubbish and a bore to me. same beaten path same outcome.

    i think the purpose of this blog is to probe the Word of God and His thoughts not the thoughts of others or even my own. these thoughts are way off topic, and even more so when considering redemption. thanks mart for providing opportunity.

  111. bubbles says:

    Yes! I enjoy Mart’s posts because they cause me to think about things in different ways. I always look forward to see what jis thoughts are.

  112. jeff1 says:

    Isn’t that why God wants us to interact so that we learn and grow with each other.

    Sadly, I have seen it in my own country, many want to learn from others but they do not want others to learn from them because jealousy gets in the way. We need to remember that united we stand, divided we fall, and when it comes to blame there is no one to point the finger at only ourselves.

    Religions today are an example of not being united for the good of Christ because they are more concerned about who is right than revealing who God is.

    God knows human nature very well and the incomprehensible fact is that God’s love, thoughts and behaviour are way out of my league and for that I am truly thankful and so should every human being on this earth but for many ignorance is bliss and often that applies to myself just as much as it does to another because often what I don’t know can do me no harm and the less I know about human depravity gets me through life on this earth with some hope that there is a human spark of decency in many people or God would not have sent His Precious Son to die for us.

  113. SFDBWV says:

    Proverbs 26:11 KJV “As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.”

    I was thinking this morning of how “career criminals” have a saying, “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.”

    Sadly some even calculate how much actual prison time one might spend for murder and see it as doable.

    In those first moments when a person is set free of whatever “jail” has had them chained, what an exhilarating feeling it is to actually feel free, but then…

    How long does it take before the same old habits soon trap you into being once again under its control.

    And for our discussion I am just not talking of only drugs or alcohol, but anything that you may be addicted to, including sin.

    In this concept of our freedom from the guilt of sin being the sacrifice of God Himself in the Person of Jesus of Nazareth when we return to our sin after we have received the Lord we have shown no regard for the effort it took to gain our freedom, nor respect for the cost.

    Paul spent a lot of effort speaking of it. Though most of us believe we cannot lose our original salvation, we also can agree when we return to our folly we show no regard for being redeemed in the first place and intellectually count on that same redemption to keep us guilt free no matter how many times we “return to our”…bad decisions.

    The question remains is it for all and is it forever…no matter what?

    More rain yesterday and fog last night. 57 degrees this morning under cloudy skies.

    Steve

  114. joycemb says:

    I just read a very good article on ligoner.org “How Should Christians Deal With Besetting Sins” by R C Sproul

  115. joycemb says:

    .ligonier.org/blog/how-should-christians-handle-besetting-sins/

  116. street says:

    i find it interesting that our thought always turn to ourselves. i can not even imagine what it was like for Jesus to have no though of Himself, but of His Fathers will. yes we were saved by the blood of of Christ while we were still sinners, and yes we still live in sinful flesh, but God, Redeemer, has assured us it is Finished. this redemption is far greater than we currently perceive or understand. mart mention many areas of this a,b,c,&d.
    could it be we fail to see our true condition prior to redemption and post redemption? Saved by Grace,not of ourselves, it is a gift “of” God.

  117. street says:

    was john’s baptism “of” man or “of” God?

  118. joycemb says:

    I think that the more I appreciate redemption the more I understand about the gravity of my sin. Redemption should bring us to our knees in gratitude and love for our awesome Creator, then there would be less time to worry about another’s sinfulness. When I see and criticize another I am actually reflecting what’s in me, according to Oswald Chambers. So I must be prepared to repent of my own proclivity to do the same sin. Scripture says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. ALL.

  119. street says:

    I have never met a person I could despair of, or lose all hope for, after discerning what lies in me apart from the grace of God. Oswald Chambers

  120. joycemb says:

    Street I did not see your posts before I just posted. Could it be sin that turns our thoughts to ourselves? Thinking of Job laments yet in the end God turned his vision toward Him. We need to remind ourselves of this I think when we are stuck in our muddy selves. I do and it works!

  121. poohpity says:

    Jesus said, “The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.” So each day do I believe in Him? If I believe in Him then I understand that will also mean trusting Him with my life through His redemption. Many seem to say they believe but live their lives as if God does not exist, they do not talk to Him, get to know Him, offer no praise only complaints, grumble about others and circumstances, lack forgiveness or grace.

    Do I believe in Jesus? Do I believe what He taught or even know what He taught? Do I trust His Spirit to guide and change me? Or am I on the other hand self reliant, self righteous, demanding my own way, never thankful?

    With redemption brings a relationship with God almighty, that was something God wanted since the very beginning of creation. So what Jesus did on the Cross bring what it was meant to bring, a relationship between the Father and His children? A sinner in need of a Savior or one that thinks he has no sin and does all the right things and lives a godly life. Luke 18:9-14 NLT

  122. street says:

    Jesus’s willingness to groan and die as a consequence of our ridiculously bizarre understanding of ourselves, our God, and our experiences.

    didn’t Jesus die to save us from an evil rebellion against that which is good? the acts of this rebellion labeled sin? the good deeds of the wicked are cruelty.

    knowing good and evil? only God is good.
    i wonder about knowing God. satan was around God but did not know Him. pride is blindingly fatal. does the cross give you life? maybe the One Who raised Him up gives you life because of what the One did on the cross….without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

    after forgiveness it really gets interesting.

  123. street says:

    thinking about the relationship that God establishes with his children in Christ Jesus. very secure. His love endures for ever!

    5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.

    8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

  124. street says:

    been thinking about Genesis….the word wild caught my eye. it was used before the fall in regard to animals. i don’t think it is to be understood as wild is understood from seeing animals in the “wild” today.

    wild, living in a state of nature; not tamed or domesticated

    growing or produced without cultivation or the care of humans, as plants, flowers, fruit, or honey

    it looks like God is cultivating maturing something over time. yes, thing went south, but then, He is God!

    the Vine, grafted in. cared for and learning. there is no other.

  125. jeff1 says:

    I don’t believe anyone wanting to please God would deliberately sin but the truth is I can have ungodly thoughts which I struggle with and should that be just because someone done be an ill and I am finding it hard to forgive them, then I am still sinning.

    That God has forgiven my sins is finished but that does not mean I will never sin in my life again. When I confess it to God, regardless of whether I can overcome it or not is not the point, the point is God forgives when He knows that in my heart I do not want to have these thoughts or feelings and that is what sets me free my desire not to sin rather than desiring to hold on to the thoughts and feelings.

    I condemn myself when I lie to God about my thoughts and feelings because the truth is not in me.

    Be truthful to God who sees my depravity and still loves me.

  126. poohpity says:

    Joyce and street, it seems that both of you read My Utmost For His Highest for today? That was really a lesson I am still in the process of learning thanks for pointing it out.

  127. joycemb says:

    Me too.

  128. jeff1 says:

    This was on Sunday reflections this morning and is music for the soul.

    Guide me, O Thou great Redeemer,
    Pilgrim through this barren land;
    I am weak, but Thou art mighty;
    Hold me with Thy powerful hand:
    Bread of heaven, bread of heaven
    Feed me till I want no more.
    Feed me till I want no more.

    Open Thou the crystal fountain
    Whence the healing stream shall flow;
    Let the fiery, cloudy pillar
    Lead me all my journey through:
    Strong deliverer, strong deliverer
    Be Thou still my strength and shield.
    Be Thou still my strength and shield.

    When I tread the verge of Jordan,
    Bid my anxious fears subside;
    Death of death, and hell’s destruction,
    Land me safely on Canaan’s side:
    Songs of praises, songs of praises
    I will ever give to Thee.
    I will ever give to Thee.

  129. poohpity says:

    Thank you God for being our Perfect Father and teaching us in the way we should go that leads to you and how to get along with each other. Your principles have been written in our hearts, on our minds and lifted our souls. Thank you! Happy Father’s Day!

  130. joycemb says:

    Oh yes! He’s a GOOD Father to us all!

  131. joycemb says:

    Happy Fathers Day to Mart and the men on the blog!

  132. jeff1 says:

    What Makes a Dad
    God took the strength of a mountain,
    The majesty of a tree,
    The warmth of a summer sun,
    The calm of a quiet sea,
    The generous soul of nature,
    The comforting arm of night,
    The wisdom of the ages,
    The power of the eagle’s flight,
    The joy of a morning in spring,
    The faith of a mustard seed,
    The patience of eternity,
    The depth of a family need,
    Then God combined these qualities,
    When there was nothing more to add,
    He knew His masterpiece was complete,
    And so, He called it…Dad

    Author Unknown

  133. foreverblessed says:

    God is such a good good Father to me!
    Last Friday I really felt judged by Pooh, me listening more to scientists then to God???
    I immediately went to my Father, and you know what? He put His arms around me, and said: You are mine! I did not say that to you!

    Thank God! I should listen more to God then to fellow Christians.

  134. foreverblessed says:

    But I should add: I love you all!
    And I have forgiven you Pooh.

    And thanks for the soothing songs Jeff! I kept reading and reading them.
    And Street, about thinking, there is not a moment that I am not thinking, I pray that my thoughts may be more and more God’s thoughts.

  135. jeff1 says:

    I do to Forever because I love songs and poetry that direct my thoughts to God and away from my own thoughts so I understand when you said you went to God and He put His arms around you because God can communicate in many ways with us and when we remember this then our ears should always be open to Him and our eyes willing to see all the beauty in the world which takes our minds of the ugliness that men can do when their eyes and ears are not on God.

    I am so glad that they are a blessing to you too as we look to God for the comfort and peace that often this world does not offer us.

  136. poohpity says:

    forever, you are forgiving me for something I did not do again. If you will go back and read the conversation you will find no judgement on my part at all. I simply said you believe who you want to believe and if that is judgement to you maybe it would be wise to reconsider what judgement really is. Maybe it is a difference in the language barrier or the heart and perception of the person reading into what was actually written which my hunch is the later.

  137. foreverblessed says:

    June 16, 9.03 am
    ” It does not bother me the least that you listen to them over God”.

  138. jeff1 says:

    and “that is a mountain you have to climb”.

    I agree this comment sounded judgemental to me too but of course it may be a language barrier and perhaps it is best to accept it as such because it is God’s understanding that matters Forever and I believe your heart is pure from my interpretation of your comments so I do not find there is a language barrier between you and I.

  139. street says:

    joycemb asked,”Street I did not see your posts before I just posted. Could it be sin that turns our thoughts to ourselves? ”

    pride is the basis of all sin. the idea that there is life apart from God. i use to think envy was the stealthy and most dangerous sin. now i understand it is pride behind the envy or for that matter any other deception the that blinds or separates from God, whether judgment, anger, coveting……….1 John 2:16

    thinking death is the most humbling and humiliating thing we will face. we are called to deny ourselves and follow Christ. not deny our sin, but to kill it’s power, therefor a Savior. in Christ we have what we need. rest.

  140. street says:

    joycemb said,”Job laments yet in the end God turned his vision toward Him.”

    thinking job was a righteous man! there was no one like him in all the earth. job’s righteousness came from God through faith. the righteous shall live by faith. he had faith given him before the trial. job was following the truth where ever in took him. he understood he was innocent, not deserving of the magnitude of suffering he found himself in. his three friend debated with him and job realized in the debate that others suffer too. job asked for three things in a pending litigation with God. i think Jesus is the person where these three things come together for job. it is amazing that he saw this so long ago. in his prayer he found himself in the presents of God, when God began to speak to him.

    i do understand the Holy Spirit is available to the children of God at all times.

    redemption….truly amazing any of us are saved.

  141. poohpity says:

    forever, you said, “Pooh, so I take it that I upset you when I bring in science into genesis 1.” So that seems as if someone was judging and assuming that I was upset over what you think or feel and what you think is not my business nor would it upset me in the least.

    My reply was, “Forever so it does not bother me in the least that you listen to them over God, that is a mountain you have to climb.”

    So I forgive you for assuming, judging and putting words, feelings and thoughts that are yours and attributing them to me. Rather than asking a person what they think or feel controlling people often transfer their own thoughts and feelings on others.

  142. poohpity says:

    Saying “controlling people” now that is a judgement. Now you can forgive me and it will mean something.

  143. foreverblessed says:

    So if you were not upset, why did you react so heavily to my comments on the 6 days creation?
    It is getting too complicated for me.
    But you rehearse your statement that I listen more to scientist then to God???

    And Street, thank you about Job, and Joyce about our thinking.
    Thanks Jeff, thanks!
    God bless you all!

  144. jeff1 says:

    If there is one thing I have learned in life is that it is God who teaches me best and I spent a big part of my life blind to that fact and it was my dear earthly dad who me aware of my blindness.

    I do not always know where God has been working until after the event and I may have went through the trial feeling God had let me down when the truth is God always knows best and He is always with me and never lets me down but I let myself down and others down on many occasions.

    How deep the Father’s love for us
    How vast beyond all measure
    That He should give His only Son
    And make a wretch His treasure
    How great the pain of searing loss
    The Father turns His face away
    As wounds which mar the Chosen One
    Bring many sons to glory
    Behold the man upon the Cross
    My sin upon His shoulder
    Ashamed I hear my mocking voice
    Call out among the scoffers
    It was my sin that held Him there
    Until it was accomplished
    His dying death had brought me life
    I know that it is finished
    I will not boast in anything
    No gift, no power, no wisdom
    But I will boast in Jesus Christ
    His death and resurrection
    Why should I gain from His reward
    I cannot give an answer
    But this I know with all my heart
    His wounds have paid my ransom
    Why should I gain from His reward
    I cannot give an answer
    But this I know with all my heart
    His wounds have paid my ransom

  145. jeff1 says:

    I feel joy in my heart this morning and this song which I heard on Sunday reflections sung by a very popular Irish singer Daniel O’Donnell is very much in my head.

    Footsteps walking with me
    Footsteps I cannot see
    But every move I make
    And every step I take
    I know they’re there with me
    They walk with me all the way
    Beside me day by day
    Through good and bad
    Through happy and sad
    These footsteps won’t go away

    I’ll never walk in life alone
    There’ll always be someone there
    I know He won’t let me down
    He’s with my everywhere
    The special things in life I’ve done
    Have been through Him and His love
    I’ve been blessed in so many ways

    Thanks to the Lord above

    Footsteps walking with me
    Footsteps I cannot see
    But every move I make
    And every step I take
    I know they’re there with me
    They walk with me all the way
    Beside me day by day
    Through good and bad
    Through happy and sad
    Those footsteps won’t go away

    I think that my life’s been planned
    By the one who’s guiding me
    When I’m led by the hand
    Of someone I can’t see
    I’m not always sure where to go
    That’s when I follow His lead
    I know that the pathway that He shows
    Will help me to succeed

    Footsteps walking with me (footsteps walking)
    Footsteps I cannot see (I cannot see)
    But every move I make
    And every step I take
    I know they’re there with me
    They walk with me all the way
    Beside me day by day (day by day)
    Through good and bad
    Through happy and sad
    Those footsteps won’t go away
    Through good and bad
    Through happy and sad
    By my side they will stay

  146. poohpity says:

    forever, sorry it is so upsetting to you that I believe what the bible says but that will never change. I know you have issues with the scriptures but it is my guide and the truth I cling too and if that is wrong then I am OK with being wrong.

  147. poohpity says:

    forever, if I am so obsessed by it why isn’t it me who continues to bring it up rather than it being you who does, repeatedly.

  148. jeff1 says:

    Forever, I spent so much of my life trying to please others and failed. I learned what my earthly dad always knew you cannot please others and what I learned from my dad is that he always tried to please God and found that in pleasing God He pleased those with a heart for God.

    As a matter of fact my father never studied his bible but read chapters to strengthen him in times of weakness as I would do myself.

    My father was more Christ focused than Scripture focused to my way of thinking and it made him a much better Christian in my eyes.

  149. joycemb says:

    Street in reference to june18 6:21 Daily Seedbed today talks about “Good news” and how by looking at John 1:1 as the beginning of “Good news” instead of the last 3 chapters our view of redemption is enlarged. I think Job did grasp this so many years ago. Thinking Job was a much smarter man than most!
    Thanks Mart for opening up such an important conversation.

  150. street says:

    Matthew 4:4
    Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

    This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
    after that time, declares the Lord.
    I will put my laws in their minds
    and write them on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    11
    No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest.
    12
    For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”[a]

    foot note…..the true Israel is Jesus.
    Jesus promises to Jacob are still good.
    the New Covenant is better than the Old One.

  151. poohpity says:

    “Jesus did not say to make converts to your way of thinking, but He said to look after His sheep, to see that they get nourished in the knowledge of Him.” Where do we get that knowledge from? Where do we look to find out about redemption? Where do the words in worship songs, devotions, and teaching come from?

  152. joycemb says:

    “My father was more Christ focused than Scripture focused to my way of thinking and it made him a much better Christian in my eyes.”

    I think it’s all part of the journey Viv although I can’t recall anything in scripture saying one Christian is better than the other because of whatever. I do think we all struggle with staying focused on Christ especially when He asks us to do something our flesh finds hard, or offensive even. Which is why I need to recommit myself daily-hourly sometimes. Scripture shows me what God thinks because there’s no way my small brain could handle it all if Christ were to reveal it to me Himself personally. Those who have gotten to see Him personally are changed. But it is a heart change. Slow change I find. I must be as patient with those slow to change as God is with me.

  153. jeff1 says:

    I just want to clarify, Joyce, he was better at understanding God, and therefore made righteous choices that I did not and since I came from a culture where more focused on Scripture than Jesus, so, I seen the difference, that my dad understood God’s will better because he focused on Christ’s actions rather than scripture and the results were that my father knew God’s will where others did not.

    Truthfully I believe it was a gift from God as I find it is rare rather than the norm and I would say my dad was not even aware of it because it came so natural to him.

  154. joycemb says:

    Loving God and loving others pretty much sums up Jesus message though.

  155. joycemb says:

    Natural-nature. Human nature can only be changed by God. Sounds like your dads nature was changed by an encounter with the living God!

  156. jeff1 says:

    Yes, Joyce, Jesus’s message is about loving others and that is why my dad knew that we were moving away from God’s way because with bombs and bullets an everyday occurrence people were becoming wayward and hatred was entering peoples hearts followed by blame games and judgments that my dad knew was ungodly.

    Did my dad have an encounter with the living God, my dad always had a heart for God and that was enough for him to see that we were on a downward slope.

    It is easy to love others when they are not harming you but it is a very different thing when they are and that is when you find who is close to God and who is not.

    I can think I am close to God and I can tell myself I am close to God but it is not until I am tested that I discover how wayward I can be.

    My dad passed the test but I did not and I find that there are more like me than there is my dad because when people are being hurt by others it seems they do want to hurt back.

    Does that mean my dad had an encounter with the living God or does he just have a better heart than mine!

  157. poohpity says:

    Where do we learn Christ’s actions if not from scripture? It is the Holy Spirit who teaches us through the scripture we just do not pull it from the sky. The true test of being a Christ follower is loving those who do not deserve love just like Jesus did for us. Romans 5:7-8 NLT “Now, most people would not be willing to die for an upright person, though someone might perhaps be willing to die for a person who is especially good. 8 But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners(His enemies).”

  158. bubbles says:

    Please pray for me especially tomorrow and then again on Wednesday if you think if it. Thank all of you very much.

  159. jeff1 says:

    Pooh says: The true test of being a Christ follower is loving those who do not deserve love just like Jesus did for us.

    Then perhaps that is why there are fewer and fewer Christ followers in the world today because while we are not short of the knowledge we are definitely short of the love.

  160. poohpity says:

    bubbles I put a comment up to let you know I will continue in praying for you.

    I also attached a link to a new discovery series that Mart wrote about following Jesus but it may not get posted because it is waiting moderation. But you can see it on facebook and then click on the link.

  161. bubbles says:

    Thank you.

  162. poohpity says:

    Did Christ expect us to be full of love for others apart from Him? Since He is all knowing I do not think so because He says apart from me you can nothing.(John 15:5)

  163. poohpity says:

    It was a 118 in the shade at the airport today so that means at least 123 in the sun. Can you say HOT? I guess I will go out and cook my supper on the side walk, lol, because it is to hot to cook in the house.

  164. street says:

    when it gets so hot even a fan is counterproductive you know it’s way to hot.

  165. bubbles says:

    Wow! Please be careful in that heat! Oh my goodness.

  166. SFDBWV says:

    Matt enjoyed very much talking with you last evening Bubbles, you are indeed a good friend.

    We hope you have a safe trip today and successful surgery tomorrow. We will be praying for you on all fronts.

    52 degrees and dropping this morning under clear skies.

    Steve

  167. jeff1 says:

    Pooh says:

    Did Christ expect us to be full of love for others apart from Him?

    I don’t believe so either and that is why I feel so empty today because I do not feel loved by God so I cannot give others what I do not have to give.

    Love divine, all loves excelling,
    Joy of heaven to earth come down;
    Fix in us thy humble dwelling;
    All thy faithful mercies crown!
    Jesus, Thou art all compassion,
    Pure unbounded love Thou art;
    Visit us with Thy salvation;
    Enter every trembling heart.

    Breathe, O breathe Thy loving Spirit,
    Into every troubled breast!
    Let us all in Thee inherit;
    Let us find that promised rest.
    Take away our bent to sinning;
    Alpha and Omega be;
    End of faith, as its Beginning,
    Set our hearts at liberty.

    Come, Almighty to deliver,
    Let us all Thy life receive;
    Suddenly return and never,
    Never more Thy temples leave.
    Thee we would be always blessing,
    Serve Thee as Thy hosts above,
    Pray and praise Thee without ceasing,
    Glory in Thy perfect love.

    Finish, then, Thy new creation;
    Pure and spotless let us be.
    Let us see Thy great salvation
    Perfectly restored in Thee;
    Changed from glory into glory,
    ‘Til in heaven we take our place,
    ‘Til we cast our crowns before Thee,
    Lost in wonder, love, and praise.

  168. bubbles says:

    Thank you

  169. SFDBWV says:

    This morning I was reminded, as I fed the critters, of the “volunteer” sunflower plants and other unknown plants that grow up around the feeders.

    Only when the deer don’t come in are they allowed to grow to maturity and grace my back yard with their bright and beautiful flowers.

    Such plants have been redeemed from becoming just food to coming full circle in their lives to maturity and producing seed of their own.

    Though written about by some very talented writers, I still have to wonder how different “nature” was before the fall of man and how different it will be once the full effect of its being redeemed along with mankind in that future life we all strain for.

    Because though we have all been redeemed, nature remains the same; a beautiful but deadly and dangerous place. And we still stumbling and failing as mankind and certainly deadly and dangerous to both ourselves and nature as well.

    I was reminded this morning that the world is a better place today than what it was before the coming of Jesus. That Christians improved the world in every area of its influence.

    One only need to look, everywhere Christianity rules there is prosperity, growth and peaceful living, but where ever Christianity does not rule, poverty, desolation and chaos remain in control.

    Oh well as I said earlier the temp was dropping it is now 51 degrees as the sun is just beginning to rise above the rim of the mountains under a clear sky.

    Be blessed wherever you are today.

    Steve

  170. poohpity says:

    I cling to the fact that God’s love surrounds and covers us every minute of everyday whether I feel it or not. His love is not dependent on us in anyway, it is because of who He is. We can not make Him love us any more or any less at least that is what I have learned from the bible and I believe what it says.

    That love rules in the hearts of His children wherever they may be and since He is a God of personal relationships it is to each individual person who are parts of nations. Our country is no better than any other because people make choices, just look around at the hate that is within this country as it is in many other places even within the very Christian communities that “say” they believe in Christ. Saying it is one thing, following Christ is another.

  171. poohpity says:

    I should have said rather than following Christ is another, it should be abiding in Christ is another.

  172. jeff1 says:

    I am not disagreeing with what you say Pooh about God loving us any more or any less but if I do not feel loved it is because of this world. I have seen enough of hatred, enough of suffering, be it mine or someone else’s, be in in my country or someone else’s I am just tired of it all and am ready to leave this earth because we cannot change the world or the evil it in regardless of who we are so as I see it I am a product of my time and I seen too much hatred and violence in mine to forget the evil in men’s hearts and minds and I have left it all in God’s hands trusting that He loves me no less for being too weak to care any longer about what happens in the world.

    That may seem like a cop out to you but I was fifteen when violence started and in my mid forties when it stopped and now in this country there are all the recriminations of who is to blame and politicians trying to score point rather than looking to the good of the country and I feel for the younger generation who have to come along and clean up the mess our generation left them because that is what happens when we do not do what is right when it is right and I learned that from my dad who was well ahead of his time and could see the folly of our ways.

    God rest him he will not look down and say I told you so because it would not have been in his character to do so.

    I accept my part in failing and trust that God loves me even though it is hard to forgive myself when I look at the consequences of getting it wrong.

    God gives us free choices and allows us to suffer the consequences of making the wrong ones so you could say I learned the hard way that you reap what you sow and that those unlike the character of my dad will be saying she got what she deserved.

    You can see why it is so easy for me to trust God because when you fail yourself and others fail you then what reason would I have not to trust Him.

  173. saled says:

    When I have thought of redemption, I have thought only of people, animals, plants, the earth. I guess mostly the material world, with our spirits-souls also. I love this idea that God is also in the process of redeeming those things Mart stated in his next to last paragraph: our confused understanding of God, our misinterpretation of scripture, our unloving thoughts of those we fear, and our hopelessness.

    This helps me understand that the religion I grew up in needs redeeming. My concept of God also needs redeeming. How often I have limited Him to loving only those I deem worthy! This explains a lot to me. So we are still in the process, still under the effect of Time. Like pooh just said above, I cling to the fact that God’s love surrounds and covers us every minute of every day, whether I feel it or not. Hope is so important.

  174. jeff1 says:

    Hope makes way for love.

    What colour is the wind, Daddy
    Is it yellow, red or blue
    When he’s playing with my hair, Daddy
    Does he do the same to you
    When he’s dying does his colour fade
    Is a gentle breeze a lighter shade
    Just like his friend the sea
    The wind feels blue to me

    When the blackbirds start to sing, Daddy
    Do the flowers hear him, too
    When he’s pouring out his heart, Daddy
    Tell me, what do roses do
    Do the cast their scent upon the air
    And is fragrance just a rose in prayer
    Giving thanks to God above
    For the blackbird’s song of love

    Blow, wind, blow
    Wild and free
    My Daddy says
    You’re a lot like me

    I know each colour
    Its shape and size
    I’ve seen them all
    With my Daddy’s eyes

    I know that grass is green, Daddy
    I’ve touched it with my toes
    And snow is purest white, Daddy
    I’ve felt it with my nose
    But my favourite colour has to be
    The colour of your love for me
    And Daddy I’ve been told
    That love is always gold

    Blow, wind, blow
    Wild and free
    My Daddy says
    You’re a lot like me
    What colour is the wind

  175. saled says:

    Jeff1, what is this song? It’s beautiful and this is the first time that I have read (heard) it. And thank you for the fisherman’s prayer from June 16th. I had never seen that before. It reminded me of the little prayer I was taught as a child:

    Now I lay me down to sleep
    I pray the Lord my soul to keep.

    If I should die before I wake,
    I pray the Lord my soul to take.

    May we all be keepers.

  176. mtman says:

    Jeff1: Mart wrote: “Who or what doesn’t need to be released from bondage in the grand scheme of redemption that has been set in motion by Jesus’s willingness to groan and die as a consequence of our ridiculously bizarre understanding of ourselves, our God, and our experiences”.

    For me it is easy to be drawn into the grand scheme of negativity that we are fed by the various forms of media. We are fed it day in and day out and I have found that if I look beyond what they feed us there is a lot of good out there but you have to go find it.

    Just today I read that 6 inmates on work detail came to the aid of a guard who collapsed and saved his life. He collapsed and stopped breathing and they gave him CPR and used his cell phone to call 911 for help. They could have stood there and watched him die or taken off for their freedom. They didn’t hesitate and jumped to action and saved his life.

    Or a few weeks ago when a local charity that serves the homeless brought a group from Fordham Univ. in NYC to cut and haul firewood from our land to be given to those who can’t afford it or get it themselves. It gets 20 below in the winter and people can freeze to death without that firewood project. What a delightful group of young college students and how inspiring they were to this old mtman.

    We are fed so much negativity that we don’t see the good that is being done. Fomenting fear and hate is good for ratings and that is what the media envelops us with. There is much good that goes un-noticed.

    I don’t know if you remember the struggle for civil rights or not but there was a lot of hate, prejudice, and violence and in 1964 it resulted in equal rights for all men. Times change and struggles change. The people who yelled nasty things at myself and others and spit on us military men now are thanking us for our service during the Viet Nam war.

    God is still at work saving people and I see a lot of saving and good going on but if you listen to the media you don’t and won’t see it. I say hang in there and do your part in bring happiness and joy to the world and look for the good as it is there but you have to go to find it.

  177. jeff1 says:

    I happen to have the misfortune to have mental illness run in my family so even if I did not have bad memories from the troubles I would have had to fight my own personal demons. I no longer watch the news or read the newspapers and now focus on my family, my charity work and my church work.

    That is helping me to make new memories but the past has a way of coming back to haunt us and with leaders unwilling to agree on how to Govern the country it is difficult to see a way forward.

    It is also difficult to avoid hearing the bad in the world as it is what everyone talks about.

    I don’t doubt that there is much good in the world and I see it myself but I cannot ignore the evil because I have lived with it for too long and though many here seem to lead a normal life you do not have to go to deep to see the scars they bear.

    You have to have lived through 30 years of hatred and violence to know that it just doesn’t kill the people who die.

    It is not unusual to hear of terrorists now pardoned doing professional jobs while their victims are still having nightmares from the attacks they suffered.

    It is our faith that keeps many people going for they have given up in getting justice and trust only in God for a better world to come.

  178. jeff1 says:

    When I think about my last comment it makes me realize that though those who carried out the evil did not intend it they effectively drove their enemies into God’s arms because today many of us realize that it is God alone who saves us from this world and its ways.

    Who says God can not bring good out of bad intentions or that evil cannot keep us from the love of Go

    Father I can’t explain this kind of love, this kind of grace
    I know, I still break your heart and yet you run to welcome me
    (Chorus:)
    This is my song of praise to you
    For who you are and all that you do
    From the moment my life began, you have been faithful
    Father, I love the way you hold me close and say my name
    I know, when my life is through my heart will find it’s home in you
    (Chorus:)
    “And I’m still amazed when I think about he day I returned.
    Blinded by my own addictions and grief, I began my journey
    Expecting rejection, but secretly, secretly, hoping for mercy
    And while I was still away of rehearsing my lines, you saw me
    And you ran to me….You ran to me! And I began to speak and I said
    “Father… I’ve been unfaithful and I am no longer worthy to be called Your son/daughter…” “Welcome home son, I’ve been waiting for you!
    I am faithful! And I always will be your faithful father”
    This is my song of praise to you
    For who you are and all that you do
    From the moment the world began
    You have been faithful
    (Chorus)
    This is my song of praise to you
    For who you are and all that you do
    From the moment my life began, you have been faithful
    Father, I love the way you hold me close and say my name
    I know, when my life is through my heart will find its home in you
    You have been faithful, forever faithful…Father

  179. foreverblessed says:

    Our misinterpretation of the bible, that is the point that is hitting me this week on this blog.

    I could say, leave it alone, God is my Master to Him I stand or fall.
    But I am being accused here for not believing God on a certain bible passage, because someone here believes it in a certain way, and if I do not believe it in the same way, then I am in the wrong.

    Isn’t that the thing where we are to be redeemed from?
    Released form judging each other?

  180. foreverblessed says:

    And Jeff, I love reading these songs, I read them over and over. That’s the advantage of singing, the words come in deeper it seems. So I should look up what the song is like, and sing it instead.

  181. foreverblessed says:

    As I had posted my comment, this sadness I have, I now will share with all of you!
    May God redeem us from our sadness.

    And God is bigger in His redemption then I can imagine, so this will be resolved, and turned to the good!

    The Bible is about mankind being redeemed by the Son of God: Jesus!

    And so we can sing and praise Him together!

  182. Regina says:

    Good Morning, All! :-)
    I pray all is well in your lives. I’ve been reading the comments on this blog post over the last couple of days, and I had to stop and comment because of the thought-provoking and awe-inspiring devotional that I just read. It definitely speaks to the topic of conversation here…*redemption*. I will share a portion of the devotional (it really inspired me to fight harder, spiritually, and become more desperate in my desire to be an intercessor on behalf of my brothers/sisters in Christ):

    “The Ministry of the Inner Life” (Oswald Chambers)

    You are…a royal priesthood… —1 Peter 2:9

    By what right have we become “a royal priesthood”? It is by the right of the atonement by the Cross of Christ that this has been accomplished. Are we prepared to purposely disregard ourselves and to launch out into the priestly work of prayer? The continual inner-searching we do in an effort to see if we are what we ought to be generates a self-centered, sickly type of Christianity, not the vigorous and simple life of a child of God. Until we get into this right and proper relationship with God, it is simply a case of our “hanging on by the skin of our teeth,” although we say, “What a wonderful victory I have!” Yet there is nothing at all in that which indicates the miracle of redemption. Launch out in reckless, unrestrained belief that the redemption is complete. Then don’t worry anymore about yourself, but begin to do as Jesus Christ has said, in essence, “Pray for the friend who comes to you at midnight, pray for the saints of God, and pray for all men.” Pray with the realization that you are perfect only in Christ Jesus, not on the basis of this argument: “Oh, Lord, I have done my best; please hear me now.”

    Hope that passage ministers to you all as much as it ministered to me!

    79 degrees and mostly sunny in my neck of the woods…

    Love to all,
    Regina

  183. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you Regina, thank you very much, that ministered to my soul!

  184. jeff1 says:

    Forever, I never studied my bible for that very reason that everyone takes what they want from it and makes it their truth except those like Mart who are intelligent enough to see the bigger picture.

    I have seen different denominations here argue about the bible until I walked away understanding why non believers would say those Christians can’t agree themselves so why would we listen to what they have to say, why indeed.

    We do as much damage to God’s character as non believers when we do not put Him first and the bible second.

    Allow God into your heart, I have heard men say they felt closer to God fishing than they did in a Church and I can well believe it because God will reveal Himself to those who seek Him and whether that be in a Church, in Nature, in Music, in Grand Buildings, it does not matter much to me but to know He is there is what matters.

    God wants a relationship, a personal one, and yes, if you are reading your bible because that makes you feel closer to God then I’m all for it but do not condemn another who chooses to worship God in other ways because that is about their relationship and not yours and if they feel a connection to God fishing then so be it,be joyful for them, as you are for yourself when you are reading your bible.

    We spend too much time looking at others and what they should or should not be doing when what God wants is for us to focus on Him and know that I am right with Him and He will be making Himself right with others too if we would trust Him and let Him get on with it.

    We must know when to butt out of God’s business as well as knowing when to interact or we do more damage than good.

  185. jeff1 says:

    Saled I have only just seen your 2.42 pm post on Jun 20th

    The song is called ‘What Colour Is The Wind’ by Charlie Landsborough and he has many more beautiful songs like ‘My Forever Friend’.

    He has a very gently voice that seems to keep the same tone and would melt your heart.

    Other lovely songs of his are:

    Heaven Knows
    The Wind Beneath My Wings
    Love You Every Second
    Lord, I Hope This Day Is Good
    Shine Your Light

    to name but a few, and they will do your heart good.

  186. poohpity says:

    I know for myself I do not feel closer to God because I read the bible, it is because of the closeness to God that I even wanted to read the bible and even though I would point others to find out all they can about the God the say they worship rather than to the things I say but rather to what God says. Many seem to have that backwards. I sure do not point people to read God’s word because it is of any benefit for me but for any person who wants to learn about the person they say they love and one is right in saying God puts that on a person’s heart. Don’t let anyone deter you especially those who do not read it which is the reason why they deter others from doing it. What better way to focus on God than to read His inspired words.

    I am a sinner who asked Jesus to dinner(into my life) because I needed redemption, not because I thought of myself better than anyone else but because I am a broken person in need of repair. Knowing that I am in need far be it from me to point out the brokenness of another.

    “Later, Levi invited Jesus and his disciples to his home as dinner guests, along with many tax collectors and other disreputable sinners. (There were many people of this kind among Jesus’ followers.) 16 But when the teachers of religious law who were Pharisees[a] saw him eating with tax collectors and other sinners, they asked his disciples, “Why does he eat with such scum?”

    17 When Jesus heard this, he told them, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.” Mark 2:15-17 NLT

    The very one’s that needed redemption but one would never know that unless they read it from the bible or listened to one who has. For those who really enjoy Mart’s topics where do you think he got them from if not from the bible? So it can be compared to being fed(listening to others) our feeding yourself(reading it for yourself)which also includes discussing it with others, sort of like a shared joy.

    No one especially not me is forcing anyone to do anything that is really not in my power to do so, it is a personal choice. God has provided it is up to us to receive it or to count it as worthless and not worth the time. Tell God but do not put people down who love to read the bible just because one doesn’t and make excuses for the reason. It is not a forced thing just as nothing with God is forced, it is a desire that comes from the heart.

  187. joycemb says:

    Viv I agree that it doesn’t really matter what venue we use to worship God as He is in all things. The hardest thing for me is the giving up of “things” etc to follow Christ. Redemption is Gods part, choosing to follow and letting go of all the good things and putting Him first is my part. It’s not easy always-and there is often times a season of grieving that goes with the letting go. But joy always comes eventually!

  188. Regina says:

    Good Morning, All
    bubbles, As I was reading the comments in this blog, I noticed a prayer request from you… So, I prayed for you (again) this morning, and I want to share some Bible verses with you that I pray will comfort your heart…

    Matthew 10:29-30, NLT
    29) What is the price of two sparrows—one copper coin? But not a single sparrow can fall to the ground without your Father knowing it. 30) And the very hairs on your head are all numbered.

    Remember, bubbles… even when you can’t feel God’s presence, and it seems like He’s so far away… ((know)) that He never leaves your side. He loves you more than you could ever comprehend with your natural mind.

    Philippians 4:6-8, NLT

    6) Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. 7) Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus. 8) And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise.

    Remember… God doesn’t want you to worry about anything…

    Isaiah 53:5b, NLT

    5b)He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed.

    Remember… you’ve already received your healing… believe that it’s already done, and act like it.

    Love to all,
    Regina

  189. Regina says:

    forever… I’m so glad the passage I shared from the “Utmost for His…” devo was a blessing to you! It was truly a blessing to me too!

    Regina

  190. jeff1 says:

    Joyce, Thank you for understanding what I am saying, it certainly is not my intention to put anyone off reading the bible but I believe I feel close to God regardless that I don’t and I choose to listen to preachers and teachers that I trust to know God’s word.

    I listened to wrong teachers in the past and I have learned from that.

    I agree Joyce worshipping God is much easier than following but then God understands our weaknesses and uses us accordingly.

    I don’t beat myself up anymore about what I cannot do and get on with my strengths in the knowledge that God loves that I try more than that I succeed.

    Regina, I know in my heart you are right but the voices in my head tell me something else.

    I’m only human, I’m just a woman.
    Help me believe in what I could be
    And all that I am.
    Show me the stairway, I have to climb.
    Lord for my sake, teach me to take
    One day at a time.

    Chorus:
    One day at a time sweet Jesus
    That’s all I’m asking from you.
    Just give me the strength
    To do everyday what I have to do.
    Yesterday’s gone sweet Jesus
    And tomorrow may never be mine.
    Lord help me today, show me the way
    One day at a time.

    Do you remember, when you walked among men?
    Well Jesus you know if you’re looking below
    It’s worse now than then.
    Cheating and stealing, violence and crime
    So for my sake, teach me to take
    One day at a time.

    Chorus:
    One day at a time sweet Jesus
    That’s all I’m asking from you.
    Just give me the strength
    To do everyday what I have to do.
    Yesterday’s gone sweet Jesus
    And tomorrow may never be mine.
    Lord help me today, show me the way
    One day at a time.

  191. joycemb says:

    Viv the name it, claim it, and have a nice day philosophy doesn’t work so well for me either. It only leaves me feeling more guilt. I find a heart to heart with Jesus leaves me feeling refreshed and able to go on knowing He is with me in it.

  192. jeff1 says:

    Yes, Joyce, a heart to heart means that I can give to God that which I feel is too heavy for me to carry and I know He understands because He knows what I am made of and loves me anyway.

  193. foreverblessed says:

    Ohh, yes, Bubbles, I am praying for you too!
    Thanks for reminding Regina!

  194. street says:

    In trying to imagine the wonder of our redemption, is it possible to exaggerate the importance of what has already happened-

    can one exaggerate the power of God? job discovered that God is righteous and completely blameless in the suffering of the innocent. nor is He weak in restoring that which was lost or corrupted. job was not restored till he prayed for his three friends.

  195. cbrown says:

    Good evening all! Bubbles I am praying for you also.Since the subject is redemption and our confused concept of God’s mercy,I would like to share an experience I had last thursday night. I was sharing with the inmates in my Bible study from the “Daily Bread devotional June 12, “Nothing is Useless”. I asked them to give me an example of something they had done that was a blessing to someone else. They looked at me and finally one man said “don’t you know we are criminals?”we then went over again the difference in how God looks at them as professing Christians and how the world looks at them. I then shared that they were a blessing to me for being there.I knew that they under went a strip down search,then were shackled and put in locked holding areas for 45 minutes until they were collected for the study.Several then shared other ways they have been a blessing and witness to family and other inmates. Please pray for one of the inmates who is being released at the end of August.He shared that he is looking to God to provide for him. He is 38 and has been in prison for 17 years.He has no family.

  196. street says:

    poo said,” poohpity says:
    June 19, 2017 at 11:49 am

    “Jesus did not say to make converts to your way of thinking, but He said to look after His sheep, to see that they get nourished in the knowledge of Him.”

    i remember Jesus telling His disciples to give the crowd something to eat! a very large crowd, they did the right thing they brought what they had to Him.

    earlier He told them if they follow Him, He would make them fishers of men, they did the right thing, they followed.

    later, Jesus asked peter if he loved Him? he said Jesus knew all things and that he loved Him. Jesus reminded him to feed the Lords sheep.

    later, before Jesus left, the finale time, before He sent His Spirit, He told them to make disciples.

    i am also reminded to pray for more workers for the harvest.

    fishing with bread from heaven?

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