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Forgive?

Does anyone deserve to be let off the hook of a wrong done? After ruining the lives of others, what right does someone have to ask for mercy?

If God really does forgive such people—will we ever be able to forgive him? Or if God hasn’t done anything wrong— what are we missing?

Maybe Jesus knew something we don’t yet understand when he said from his cross, “Father forgive them, they don’t know what they are doing.” Maybe he also knew what only our Father knows— about a forgiveness (lovingly conditional and unconditional) that uses time and eternity—to right the wrongs of the ages— and make all things new again.

Note– My original wording of this post ended with reference to “a love that uses time and eternity—to right the wrongs of the ages…” A short time later, I changed the wording to refer to “a forgiveness (lovingly conditional and unconditional) that uses time and eternity…” I made the change to acknowledge that, as Jesus says in Luke 17:1-4, there is a kind of forgiveness that lovingly requires/and responds to a change of heart.


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251 Responses to “Forgive?”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Mart let me ask you a few questions. Are we to always automatically forgive or are we only to always forgive when ask of forgiveness?

    Does God automatically forgive us our sins or does He want us to ask Him for forgiveness?

    If we confess our sins, we acknowledge that we have sinned. If we do not confess our sins or don’t recognize our actions as sin are we automatically forgiven?

    Should we allow someone to continue to stick their finger in our eye because we are to forgive them regardless, or should we ask them to stop as well?

    And if they still don’t stop, do we just forgive them and continue to have their finger in our eye?

    It seems clear to me that if someone asks forgiveness we give it.

    Certainly Jesus knew and knows something we don’t, then and now.

    What is the purpose of learning what the Bible teaches if we don’t practice it?

    If we don’t practice being Christ like in our actions, are we Christ like just because we say we are?

    There has to be some responsibility provided from us, not just expecting forgiveness for never trying to do the right thing.

    When Jesus ask the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do, was He referring to His executioners only or for every sin ever committed across time eternal?

    Why doesn’t God forgive Satan or the 1/3 of the fallen angels that followed him in the rebellion in heaven?

    What about all those judged and thrown into the lake of fire at the second resurrection?

    Where is their forgiveness?

    What right does someone have to ask for mercy? It seems to me that they first have to be sorry show remorse and a change of heart. Mercy is then easy to give.

    But if someone shows no remorse is not sorry and has no change of heart, mercy is not so easy to give.

    Will we ever be able to forgive God?
    Anyone who lives amidst the trials of life has at some point been disappointed with God, even angry. Left with unanswered question and a miserable existence, all that is left is trusting that somewhere in eternity God has a better life in store for them or at least death will end it.

    For such people church talk and quick answers do no good. Only our love in action for them matters.

    Interesting to see what may come into this conversation, hope that it has more than 3 people’s input.

    Steve

  2. Mart DeHaan says:

    Good morning, Steve, I owe you an apology. I found your list of important questions— after I had already altered my original post by adding– the thought of a forgiveness shaped by necessary considerations of conditional and unconditional love. When I found you had already responded to the original wording I thought about changing my post back to the original— which I think would help to explain at least some of your response. Instead I decided to respond to you here and will add a note at the end of the post.

  3. SFDBWV says:

    It’s fine Mart. I’ve been having a rough time of late myself and I fear some of it rubs off in my comments.

    I will try and address your altered post later as my time at the computer is up for a while.

    I am so glad to see you post, please do us a favor and continue to add to the thread it will help a lot.

    Steve

  4. jeff1 says:

    Forgive is so easy for those who have not been offended to say but for those who have it is not so easy to do.

    It depends on the offence and the depth of the pain it causes and I have seen people in so much pain either physical or mental that they don’t feel anymore.

    Their pain is overwhelming them and they are numb to what life should be and guess what they want to be number still because its so much easier to survive in a world like this when I feel nothing.

    The offender can no longer hurt me when I feel nothing and so when they re offend as abusers do I can take it and become acclimatised so that it becomes water of a duck.

    My endurance means that the offender is no longer able to hurt me and then I realise I have overcome my fear of them then they no longer seem like the monster I first thought they were and I wonder why I ever gave them that power over me because they have suddenly become very small in my world and not worth giving any more thought to.

    God has always been with me and give me the strength to endure because He takes care of me in His way and the world doesn’t even know it.

    You may ask me how I know my Lord is real (my Lord is real)
    You may doubt the things I say and doubt the way I feel (the way I feel)
    But I know He’s real today he’ll always be (he’ll always be)
    I can feel his hand in mine and that’s enough for me

    I will never walk alone he holds my hand (he holds my hand)
    He will guide each step I take
    And if I fall I know he’ll understand
    Till the day he tells my why he loves me so (he loves me so)
    I can feel his hand in mine
    That’s all I need to know

    I will never walk alone he holds my hand (he holds my hand)
    He will guide each step I take
    And if I fall I know he’ll understand
    Till the day he tells me why he loves me so (he loves me so)
    I can feel his hand in mine
    That’s all I need to know

    I can feel his hand in mine
    That’s all I need to know

  5. poohpity says:

    Mart, you said, “there is a “kind” of forgiveness that lovingly requires/and responds to a change of heart.” which seems to mean those who admit to the wrongdoing. BUT it seems there are other “kinds” like Jesus said from the Cross which was heard by the Roman Soldier below which that forgiveness lead to a changed heart not the other way around.

    It would seem that a good baseline for forgiveness is because Christ forgave me so I would do well to extend that mercy to others just like it was given to me. Forgiveness in the bible has many kinds; those who admit to wrongs, to those who never admit to their wrongs, to those who keep repeating the same behaviors over and over, to those who may never know they hurt me and to those who have hurt me on purpose. God’s condition on forgiveness seems to be because of His love for us and knowing that forgiveness changes the hearts of many people and has for centuries.(Matt 18:33;Romans 5:8; Eph 4:32; Col 3:13)

    Does it help when we realize the nature of our wrongs? You bet it does then we will not be so quick to hold others to a standard that we ourselves fail to live up to.

  6. poohpity says:

    I was thinking about what it feels like to hold on to; bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of other evil behavior?(Eph 4:31 NLT) It effects the way I think, how I interact with others, it effects my mood and how I look at life in general. Actually I would say we are held captive to whomever or whatever we blame those things on, we are a slave to them. There is such freedom found in turning those things over to God and trusting Him to deal with it however we have to understand that He shows mercy and grace even to the harshest or hardened heart and that seems to what changes people, the forgiveness He offers.

    “Amazing Grace (My Chains Are Gone)”

    Amazing grace
    How sweet the sound
    That saved a wretch like me
    I once was lost, but now I’m found
    Was blind, but now I see

    ‘Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
    And grace my fears relieved
    How precious did that grace appear
    The hour I first believed

    My chains are gone
    I’ve been set free
    My God, my Savior has ransomed me
    And like a flood His mercy reigns
    Unending love, amazing grace

    The Lord has promised good to me
    His word my hope secures
    He will my shield and portion be
    As long as life endures

    [2x]
    My chains are gone
    I’ve been set free
    My God, my Savior has ransomed me
    And like a flood His mercy reigns
    Unending love, amazing grace

    The earth shall soon dissolve like snow
    The sun forbear to shine
    But God, Who called me here below,
    Will be forever mine.
    Will be forever mine.
    You are forever mine.

  7. SFDBWV says:

    Admittedly I don’t know what the 7 kittens may have to represent in this subject. However I did find myself examining them to see if one had that look of having just ate the canary.

    Maybe the one laying down.

    Steve

  8. Beloved says:

    Uses time and eternity to make all things right again

    Time is difficult, because it involves waiting more often than not. Patience is key I think. God gave me the grace at the age of 9 to begin what became a lifetime of prayers for my dad. He repented and received Christ just a few weeks before he died at the age of 72. I know what God can do for the vilest heart. Ours is simply to forgive and let God do what He does, lovingly and with patience although He’s not bound by time as we know it. Mart said God lovingly condemns. I hadn’t thought of it that way before, that there has to be a condemning of sin in order to be set free of it. Thinking of the Holiness of God it seems to me that Jesus is proof of Gods Holiness I think. Before Jesus on the cross God killed many and plundered their lives because of disobedience. Forgiveness is hard to wrap our heads around, still. The Pharisee in all of us dies a hard death. But because we are prisoners of time its wise and never too late to forgive, or begin the process. Asking good questions like Steve did is a good start. Come let us reason together, saith the LORD. Though your sins are as scarlet they shall be whiter than snow.

    My question is, do we want to forgive? Do we trust God to do justly, with mercy? Do we want Him to forgive?

  9. Beloved says:

    Seven sweet innocent kittens, vulnerable to most predators, yet we are safe in the Fathers hands.

  10. Beloved says:

    Paul’s Salvation Was for You

    But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life. (1 Timothy 1:16)

    Paul’s conversion was for your sake.

    I want you to take this very personally. God had you in view when he chose Paul and saved him by sovereign grace.

    If you believe on Jesus for eternal life — or if you may yet believe on him for eternal life — Paul’s conversion is for your sake. It is to make Christ’s incredible patience vivid for you.

    Paul’s pre-conversion life was a long, long trial to Jesus. “Why do you persecute me?” Jesus asked. “Your life of unbelief and rebellion is a persecution of me!” Paul had been set apart for God since before he was born. So all his life was one long abuse of God, and one long rejection and mockery of Jesus who loved him.

    That is why Paul says his conversion is a brilliant demonstration of Jesus’ patience. And that is what he offers you today.

    It was for our sake that Jesus did it the way he did it. To “display his perfect patience” to us. Lest we lose heart. Lest we think he could not really save us. Lest we think he is prone to anger. Lest we think we have gone too far away. Lest we think our dearest one cannot be converted— suddenly, unexpectedly, by the sovereign, overflowing grace of Jesus!
    John Piper

  11. Dinakar says:

    I seem to respond to this more from a viewpoint of denying self and loving others.
    surely if there is an absent self then forgiveness is automatic.

    If I catch myself feeling hurt then I know there is a Self (Ego) which I have to repent and get right with God.

  12. jeff1 says:

    You’ve just drawn my attention to the kittens Steve and how cute they are and I think the one standing as its paw on the paw of the one sitting. I don’t get the connection either.

    Difficult questions, Beloved, time to me is a healer even if the offender doesn’t see their wrong or stop offending I am further along in my walk and can see clearer as to why things happen as they do and that clearer understanding gives way to wanting to forgive or at least leaving it with God and trusting Him with it.

    Some times the offender rubs salt into the wound causing me more pain but each time I run to God’s arms and the more I run to Him and see my need of Him the less I think about the offender and the more I realise that God is there to soothe my pain and the offence or the offender looses their grip on me and I find I am trusting Jesus and there is a peace that even I don’t understand but I know God will make it right somehow.

    I think some wounds go to deep to heal in this world as suicide is on the increase here which tells me that often it has gone unnoticed how fragile some are and if it weren’t for God’s grace and mercy where would the lost be.

    Yes, I trust God with justice and mercy but that does not mean I can forgive as I am as human as the offender and struggle with doubt and understanding as to why bad things happen when I have been trying to lead a life pleasing to God and confessing my sins in the hope that they are forgiven.

    Do we want Him to forgive? Not always because it is not humanly possible for us to understand God’s forgiveness but I don’t think it is about me understanding as God does not owe me an explanation and since I do trust Him then He has the final word on forgiveness and it is for me to accept He knows best because in doing so then it is proving to Him that I do trust His judgements above my own.

    It is so very easy to play God instead of listening to Him and it was my dad taught me that and I was alarmed at just how easy it is to blind myself as it took me a long time to see I was doing just that.

  13. Beloved says:

    I’ll be thinking about that Dinakar.

  14. cbrown says:

    Jesus, offered himself as a sacrifice for lost sinners that did not understand. He knew the Spirit he would send them would help them understand. So He loved us unconditionally as His plan unfolded. Even more, He has commissioned us His disciples to tell a lost and dying world about His perfect Love. A good example of His Love would be Jim Elliot and his companions who carried the Gospel to the Auca tribe in the jungles of South America. They were savagely murdered but Elizabeth Elliot, his wife carried on his mission to share of Christ’s mercy.She did lead them to Christ.A rhetorical question would be that she loved them when she went into the jungle but when did she forgive them and why?

  15. narrowpathseeker says:

    I would also like to know the answers to Steve’s questions on April 26, 2018 at 5:53 am..

    I am truly impressed and admire people that actually forgive someone that has done unbelievable evil to them or someone they love… BUT a pretense of being a loving and forgiving Christian while continuously poking somebody in the eye (Love Steve’s analogy) so the pokee will lash out at the poker so the poker can further point out how unChristlike it is not to forgive one poking them in the eye is NOT the deed of one that “KNOWS NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING”.. That is PREMEDITATED evil.

    I pray and struggle to forgive as well as to love such people. Over the years I have been given the ability to forgive many, but there are many more that He has not enabled me to forgive nor love… I am no theologian, but I know that PRETENDING I love or have forgiven my enemies is not only not going to fly but will have severe consequences…as satan is the father of lies….so I am guessing TRUTH would be a priority over most else wrong doing..again..I’m not a theologian, so I could be wrong… I WANT to be forgiving and loving and pleasing to God….I fail way too often….thus my daily plea… LORD have mercy on me….on us all.

  16. bubbles says:

    Does God forgive before He is asked for forgiveness? If He did, then what is the point in is asking for it then? If we are asked to forgive, we are to do so. Holding out on forgivenss is different than holding a grudge. If people tell is to fortive before we are asked to by the offender, aren’t we being asked to do something God Himself does not do?

    I ask not to be a sarcastic or to buck authority. I ask for informational purposes. I am at peace.

  17. street says:

    love the post mart and the re-write. you must have grown up in a seminary or a well connected family.

  18. street says:

    thinking of the questions coming fast and furious. i think the de”lemon” is, have we done enough to to merit forgiveness? a works Gospel? did i jump trough the right hoops. has my hope been properly placed. is the cross enough? Galatians is very clear on this.
    is my unforgiveness a blind spot or worse a stumbling block?

    Does anyone deserve to be let off the hook of a wrong done? i don’t think so. therefor a cross and a Messiah.

    Maybe Jesus knew something we don’t yet understand when he said from his cross, “Father forgive them, they don’t know what they are doing.” we did not know how to love. being self centered precludes love. thinking about Love/God. it is eternal. not temporary. it changes not and we change too much. if we were to love, God would have to be inside of us. i wonder what the difference is between being a witness and loving people?
    After ruining the lives of others, what right does someone have to ask for mercy?

    13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.
    Mark 16:16
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Romans 10:13
    For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Matthew 24:12-14

    12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    If God really does forgive such people—will we ever be able to forgive him? Or if God hasn’t done anything wrong— what are we missing? the ledger has been balances by payment in full. do we need to forgive God or praise Him???? what are we missing? maybe a cross? the news looks really good from here.

    the letter of law and love of Spirit and Truth continue.

  19. SFDBWV says:

    I am pleased that so many have responded to the subject, wondering where Maru is.

    Whereas salvation is a gift from God without being able to be earned by any of us. Where does forgiveness come into the relationship with salvation?

    Is our salvation dependent on our ability or inability to completely forgive?

    I am one of those people who believe once saved always saved. I don’t believe my salvation is ever dependent on my abilities at all, only on the sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth upon the cross.

    So where does that leave me with regards to forgiveness.

    I know in my life I have forgiven a lot of things, but some of those things has just become less important to me and don’t matter anymore. In a way the trespasses against me have been forgotten.

    In the concept that we cannot earn our way to heaven, or a works theology, where does the concept that we are held to task for un-forgiveness?

    In the Lord’s Prayer we repeat the words “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”.

    Is then the forgiveness of our own trespasses from God dependent on our own abilities to forgive, or are they dependent to Jesus’ sacrifice and prayer from the cross?

    I come to believe that there is an explanation or difference between forgiveness and seeking retribution or revenge.

    In seeking revenge we are trying to get even. If we suffer an offence absorb it and walk away we are not allowing the offence to control us. We may try and understand the offender, we may forgive the offender but chances are unless the offender comes to us and asks forgiveness from us we are most likely not going to be able to forget the offence and not completely forgive in a mutual sense of healing between both the offended and offender.

    Forgiveness is a healing between people, but it can’t always be a one way event.

    Once again, Jesus ask God to forgive them because they don’t know what they are doing…What about those who *do* know what they are doing and never ask forgiveness for it?

    Light rain and 43 degrees, a bumper crop of Robins this spring.

    Steve

  20. jeff1 says:

    During the Northern Ireland troubles there was one man who publicly announced that he forgive the offenders after his daughter was killed in a remembrance day bomb.

    The response to this was that others who had lost loved ones did not believe him, or they couldn’t understand how he could care so little for his daughter.

    People see things differently which is why the world is the way it is. I have not been in this man’s shoes and I cannot tell you whether I could forgive as he did and I believe I need to be honest with God about that.

    Most of us will never have to make that choice but having lived in a country where violence and hatred was rife I know very few people who had loved ones murdered who could see it the way this man did and yes he professed it was his Christian duty to do so.

    I cannot answer whether he believed it was his Christian duty but at heart he felt differently and that is between him and God.

    All I can tell you is that I personally would be among those who would find such a premeditated act of violence hard to forgive as those who carried it out justify themselves by history in doing so and therefor claim it is an act of war and they are not accountable as the British’s occupation of Northern Ireland justifies them.

    What you have to ask yourself is how does planting a bomb on a day that families come together at a cenotaph to commemorate the memories of their loved ones either killed or wounded in either the world wars or any future wars since ever be justified.

    Is that an act of war or an act of evil and who judges such an act?

    It is the families of the victims my heart goes out to as 11 people died and 68 wounded in that bomb. No one was ever brought to justice for the bomb but the IRA claimed responsibility.

    We cannot simplyfy such deeds and make judgements on them as we have no right to do so and if we don’t know that then we are playing God instead of following Him.

    There is forgiveness that is beyond our understanding and so often we have no idea what we are talking about and why God is the ultimate judge as He is the only perfect judge of mankind.

  21. Beloved says:

    Jesus said we are to forgive 70×7 a day. We can refute what He said or deal with the consequences of our disobedience. Mart, I knew there was meaning to the picture. Subtle but honest.

    A good time to ask ourselves, Who do I follow?

  22. Beloved says:

    Remembering where Peter attacked the soldier taking Jesus into custody and what did Jesus do? He immediately healed the wound Peter caused. Forgiveness is a healing act. Following Jesus is the better way, the way to life.

  23. SFDBWV says:

    So then Joyce you believe it a responsibility to forgive an offender 70×7 times solely based upon the fact that Jesus said that was the proper thing to do. I would agree, as long as the offender asks forgiveness.

    However is this a commandment from Jesus or instruction, and are we punished for not being able to accomplish the “ordinance”?

    Honesty is very secretive thing. The truth of forgiveness is hidden in your heart where only God and you have privilege to know the truth.

    Viv’s story is an honest one and I believe God rewards honesty with peace in one’s heart.

    Lies have a way of eating at one’s soul and its effect comes out in many different forms. All bad.

    I don’t think everyone always believes another when they say they forgive. Using a phrase from Shakespeare some people, “protest too much.”

    Trying too hard to sound as if they are trying to convince another when in truth they are trying to convince themselves.

    Discernment, evidence of the Holy Spirits indwelling, can see the truth even when hidden from view.

    Steve

  24. Beloved says:

    Does it matter what others think? Following Jesus way, the way to an easier life brings peace. Take my yoke upon you and follow me for my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Unburdening from carrying the unease of vendetta and strife caused by unforgiveness is His way.

    I’m even wondering now if forgiveness opens God’s ear a bit. Hmm have to think about that. A posture of humility before God.

  25. Beloved says:

    Viv I agree with you that forgiving a premeditated act of violence is hard to do. Fortunately we have Jesus example as He said Father forgive them they don’t know what they are doing as He suffered on the cross.

    Jesus’ very life and death and resurrection are examples to us of God’s will for us all.

    Jesus, I know you want me to forgive but it’s just not in me right now. Please help me.

  26. Beloved says:

    Jesus loves me this I know,
    For the Bible tells me so.
    Little ones to Him belong,
    They are weak but He is strong.

  27. Beloved says:

    Thinking about 70×7 again. Jesus was speaking to Peter who thought by saying 7 times he was being more righteous than the pharisees who’s normal was 3 times. 70 times 7, Jesus was talking about the abundant grace to be given that all would receive.

    Ephesians 4:32 New International Version (NIV)
    32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

  28. poohpity says:

    Kittens are curious! To be curious as to why we forgive can pretty much be summed up in we forgive because we have been forgiven(Matt 18:33; Eph 4:32). It is not about other people but because we have been forgiven and to honor and respect God and what was done for us, we forgive others.

    If we ever think we are without sin in some form or another then we call God a liar.(1 John 1:10) Sadly many people think there are degrees to sin but we are taught James 2:10 so maybe if you do not murder but tell lies or bare false witness against someone the whole law has been broken then a person needs forgiveness. Jesus even went further and deeper in Matt 5:21-22 NLT equating anger held in our hearts is the same as murder.(1 John 3:15 NLT)

    It would seem only the self-righteous or self professed godly person thinks for a moment that they are without the need to be forgiven daily. What if that daily forgiveness stopped because I was unable to forgive someone else? Forgiveness does not mean that the offense or act was OK and not wrong, it gives the consequences to God because God knows that when we hold unforgiveness in our hearts it kills the person holding it in. It does not do anything to the other person, it hardens the heart and mind of the person unwilling to forgive. But God never expected for us to forgive on our own BUT with His help to work through the PROCESS of forgiving.

    Aren’t you even curious of what life would be like not holding on to anger, bitterness, rage, grudges, malice and slander in other words unforgiveness? Wouldn’t you like to let go of those things? Jesus can help. Replacing depression with joy, peace and freedom from that person/s who we have allowed to be hitched to our backs.

  29. Beloved says:

    Humanism- cult of the self.
    Buddhism- denial rejection of self.
    Christianity- renewal of self in the likeness of Jesus.

  30. street says:

    about a forgiveness (lovingly conditional and unconditional) that uses time and eternity—to right the wrongs of the ages— and make all things new again.

    Revelation 21:5

    5 He who was seated on the throne said, “”I” am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

    it seems to me when we try to make things new peace leaves the room.

    “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    wondering about conditional and unconditional

  31. Beloved says:

    Peace or a sword, either or both? Our choice maybe?

  32. poohpity says:

    This I read this morning from John Piper that Beloved has spoken about. “Gospel Flying– Gospel forgiving”

    Before you were born (wing #1):

    God has loved you with a special, personal, saving love from all eternity.
    His Son gave his life for you to take the place of your judgment.
    God was satisfied by the substitute and sacrifice of the Son. The debt was paid.

    Then after you were born (wing #2):

    God brought you to faith and put you in a saving relationship with Christ.
    God adopted you into his family as a child of his own.
    And God forgave all your sins and there is no condemnation.

    These are the wings John Bunyan had in mind:

    Run, John, run, the law commands
    But gives us neither feet nor hands,
    Far better news the gospel brings:
    It bids us fly and gives us wings.

    It bids us forgive—and give us gospel wings. If you believe in your heart that God has done all of this for you and in you, you will fly. You will forgive.

    Charles Spurgeon tells how his heart was set on wing by the pardon of God:

    My life was full of sorrow and wretchedness, believing that I was lost. But, oh, the blessed gospel of the God of grace came to me, and with it a sovereign word, “Deliver him!” And I who was but a minute before as wretched as a soul could be, could have danced for the very merriment of heart. And as the snow fell on my road home from the little house of prayer, I thought every snowflake talked with me and told of the pardon I had found, for I was white as the driven snow through the grace of God.

    But years later he added this:

    To be forgiven is such sweetness that honey is tasteless in comparison with it. But yet there is one thing sweeter still, and that is to forgive. As it is more blessed to give than to receive, so to forgive rises a stage higher in experience than to be forgiven.

    It rises higher because it is gospel-flying. Spread your wings with me in these days at Bethlehem and let’s fly together.

  33. jeff1 says:

    Why should I burden myself with sins of people I don’t know when I struggle enough with my own sin?

    Some days I feel forgiven and other days I question if I am or not because I cannot put to rest my own lack of being able to forgive.

    I am not angry but I am confused as to why I am now as evil as my enemies because I cannot forgive them for killing my friends and neighbours.

    God is now angry with me because I can’t bring myself to forgive and I don’t understand how that can be as I am sad for people who are sad and that doesn’t seem wrong to me to feel the pain of those I love.

    I don’t hate my enemies but I am tired of feeling guilty for not being able to love them as it seems to me that if God loves them then it doesn’t matter whether I can love them or not as they need His forgiveness much greater than they do mine.

    People who have suffered from hatred and violence do not hold on to anger or bitterness because they are more sad at the losses they have had and have taken a long time to come to terms with them and are trying to forget the atrocities rather than remember them or who caused them.

  34. poohpity says:

    God is not angry with you because you choose not to forgive, He is patient and full of kindness towards His children until they learn to forgive as Christ fills your heart. God heals the brokenhearted that have suffered hatred, violence, and tragedy He heals their heart and gives them the ability to forgive. But He does not seem to want their heart’s to get worse and suffer more by not forgiving.

  35. jeff1 says:

    I find that it is those who have had the worst happen them that hold no bitterness or anger because many of them are trusting God and those here whose anger causes the strife pass that anger on to others because they put patriotism before God and that never turns out well.

    Those I know who lost loved ones in the troubles say they need to forget and leave it in God’s hands because they don’t feel strong enough to do otherwise.

    Time is a healer and they move on with their lives as they know they have to but it is difficult to shut out the memories of 30 years of bombs and bullets and as we have a peace process here that seems to be going nowhere since the parties cannot agree to govern the country many are left despondent at the prospects for the future and that is not good for a younger generation coming up as they don’t see a future for them that looks any better than what their parents had.

    War and the aftermath takes its toll on us all and we have a kind of a peace and we are enjoying that peace and those of us who trust God are thankful for it and have learned to take one day at a time rather than looking to far ahead because as I see it none of us know what the future holds and today is what we have to rejoice in.

  36. saled says:

    I love these words from Mart’s post:” . . .a forgiveness. . . that uses time and eternity -to right the wrongs of the ages- and make all things new again.”

    What right do any of us have to ask for mercy?

    In my state right now there is a man hunt on for a young fellow who shot and killed a police officer. How can such a sin be forgiven? Who could imagine what mercy would look like in this case?

    In situations like this, I take what I think of as the son Test. What if this young fellow that they are searching for was my son?

    And then there is the Son. I think Paul wrote words to this effect: “he who knew no sin became sin that we might be forgiven.” The Son of God became sin? He took on himself sins such as that of the young man they are searching for here? And on the cross, as Mart reminds us, he asked for forgiveness of his killers because they knew not what they do.

    I think this is the case so often today. People are not fully aware, for one reason or another. And they are in a mess almost before they have time to think about it.

  37. narrowpathseeker says:

    Saled, I really don’t know how you meant, “What right do any of us have to ask for mercy?”, but I do know that as repulsed as I get over “deceitful and unremorseful” people, that I very frequently do the son test as you call it or any other loved one to stand in for one in trouble. My heart often breaks for both the victims and the perpetrators of some tragic event. When a person is truly remorseful….I am soon filled with great compassion for them and ask for mercy for all concerned.

    Unfortunately, when I watch TV shows on cold cases, forensic files and such and the person is cold and unremorseful, I have no compassion what so ever…just disgust and anger and for that I ask for mercy for myself.

  38. narrowpathseeker says:

    One of the two thieves that was crucified with Jesus acknowledged his sins and seemed to be remorseful…the other just wanted out of the situation. Jesus told the former that he would be with him that day in paradise…did He say ANYTHING to the latter?

  39. Beloved says:

    Proverbs 3:5-6 New International Version (NIV)
    5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
    and lean not on your own understanding;
    6 in all your ways submit to him,
    and he will make your paths straight.

    I’ve been meditating on this for a while now, today asking God to reveal the ways I’m not submitting to Him. Right afterwards I asked why is it so hard to forgive? And why is it so important? Wondering if Eve felt compassion or anger toward Cain and did she forgive him for killing Abel. Any dilemma such as you saled and narrow talked about can be gutwrenchingly difficult. Then the word glory comes to mind. It’s all about glorifying God in our flesh. Whew, that’s easy, huh? Not so much. Submitting, might be easier as a first step toward forgiving. Uh oh, or yes, yes! Straight path or a rocky twisty one its my freedom to choose. Choose wisely oh my soul.

  40. Beloved says:

    Pearl are you looking for a loophole for mercy, lol. Oh it’s good, it’s so good. God is merciful to all, good bad ugly sad mad. Saled your reference to time and God making all things right was a very good reminder, thanks.

  41. poohpity says:

    The guy on the Cross next to Jesus said he knew they deserved to die for what they did but not Jesus. Then did not ask Jesus to forgive him but showed he believed in who Jesus is by asking to be remembered when He came into His kingdom. He received God’s grace without even asking for it. Getting forgiven when we do not deserve it that is called grace.

    Luke 23:41 We are punished justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our actions. But this man has done nothing wrong.” 42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” 43And Jesus said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”…

    Just because He believed in who Jesus is and recognizing that none of us deserve God’s grace at anytime that makes it easier to forgive people because we are offering them what they do not deserve and that is the call of anyone who is following Christ or being an example of Him. Forgiveness is what makes us different than those of the world around us.

  42. Beloved says:

    Pearl I’m sorry I’m just teasing you.

  43. SFDBWV says:

    It may be coincidental or not that presently in the news is the story of Bill Cosby and the “outing” of the sins of his past.

    Non-consensual sex is rape.

    Equally in the news is the story of arresting a former Police officer who is considered a serial murderer connected to murders he had committed decades ago.

    Both murder and rape used to be capital crimes and carried the death penalty in states where the death penalty was in place.

    Any woman who has ever been forced to have sex against their will knows the humiliation and trauma that it carries for a lifetime.

    The murder of a person is considered the worst thing one could do to another. Everything that the victim was and could ever be was stolen from them. Those who loved them are forever changed.

    Bill Cosby is 80 and the ex-police officer I believe 72, they both face prison for the remainder of their lives.

    What do any of you think should be the outcome of these two high profile cases?

    Mercy or justice?

    33 degrees a mixture of stars and clouds.

    Steve

  44. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, before it became quite obvious to me that Bill Cosby was guilty, I had great respect and admiration for him. When I first heard of the accusations I was almost certain they were false…and if they weren’t I still had that desire for mercy for him…BUT, when he denied, lied, and cried himself the victim and showed no remorse whatsoever, my compassion was zapped dry… so right or wrong….the TRUTH for me is that I think there should be JUSTICE… It was the same for OJ Simpson….I felt great compassion for him until he denied, lied, and cried himself victim… This cold case serial killer was unknown to me before the arrest so I have no emotion there except for the victims unless he should show great remorse which is pretty doubtful at this point in time.

    Joyce, it is ok… I was not offended by your comments in regard to my pleas for Mercy… the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee has a very strong hold on me.. Every morning I acknowledge all my transgressions and ask for His help in rising above them as well as for MERCY…then I continue the same throughout the day when I am once again engaging in my ugly thoughts and words.

  45. bubbles says:

    When I read Daniel’s prayer confessing the sins of his nation, it reminds me of the US. Our country has sinned greatly in the eyes of God. Things that were once seen as wrong are now embraced, and things that are right are now seen as wrong and hate. We are where good is bad and bad is good. How can we as a nation ask for mercy? What right do we have?

    And, what right do I have, as a person to ask for it? When we think of being in the presence of a Holy God who cannot stand sin, what right do we really have?

    I am thankful that God remembers we are dust, and He loves us and sees us through the blood of Jesus.

    Dressed in His righteousness alone, faultless to stand before the throne.

    For the Lord is good, and his mercy endures forever. I will always be humbled by His mercy for me. Mercy and love go hand in hand with God, right? Currently I am more cognizant of his mercy than anything and am thankful for it.

  46. SFDBWV says:

    1 Corinthians 6:2 KJV and 1 Corinthians 6:3 KJV

    “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?”

    “Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to this life?

    We are taught, trained, schooled, anointed and indwelt so that we can know how to judge.

    So that we can know when to dispatch justice and when to be merciful and how to blend the two together.

    Off subject for a moment I owe both you Bubbles and Pearl and Pat an email. Matt has had a very rough time these past couple weeks with his obsession and it absorbs all of the day. Be patient with me I promise to get in touch very soon.

    Steve

  47. Beloved says:

    Forgiving?
    Whatever he has allowed in your life, being in a stand-off with him will only make your pain greater.
    Is it really worth all that you are losing now and all that you will lose in the future to stay offended by Jesus?
    Collin Smith

  48. Beloved says:

    Col 3:23 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality.

    Interesting, justice will be done. But only God can apply justice and mercy at the same time i think. But i have to pray about it more.

  49. Beloved says:

    Steve I’m thinking its our lives as Christ followers, changed by Him into His likeness, that judges unbelievers, not words and actions hence the admonition ‘Judge not lest ye be judged.’

  50. poohpity says:

    Oh my gosh Steve I know that others will not realize that those verses were mentioned to justify judging others but that is for a different time and probably means after we are in heaven and are totally full of truth. If one reads it in context it is speaking of settling lawsuits between believers rather than going to a worldly court and having problems solved by those who may not know the Lord and His ways and His will.

    Paul says which is so fitting about forgiveness and the spiritual implications; Dear brothers and sisters, when I was with you I couldn’t talk to you as I would to spiritual people. I had to talk as though you belonged to this world or as though you were infants in Christ. 2 I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren’t ready for anything stronger. And you still aren’t ready, 3 for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world?”

  51. Beloved says:

    Steve praying for a better week to come.

  52. poohpity says:

    If people do not understand what the Cross is all about and the gift of grace which involves forgiveness and how all sin and fall short of the glory of God how can they understand any deeper spiritual truths? The foundation or Gospel first has to be known before we can go any further.

  53. Beloved says:

    Obsessions
    There are two types, organic and demonic. In matts case its clearly organic due to brain injury. Praying God will quiet His mind. In poohs case, however, her obsession with Steve is clearly the latter and prayer for the breaking of strongholds is requested.

  54. poohpity says:

    The book of Corinthians was written to the church there because they turned a blind eye to a son having sexual relations with his father’s wife with no consequences or being held accountable in front of the church and them making the choice to do nothing about it. So Paul addressed that in his letter to them.

  55. poohpity says:

    Beloved, I am able to separate teaching from the person. It is not an attack on the person only the teaching and you of all people should know what I am talking about since you seem to be familiar with scripture.

  56. Beloved says:

    Judging things pertaining to this world…Yes Steve, I see what you mean as to judging sinful behavior believer to believer in order that the witness we have as Christians does not bring shame to Jesus Name. The Church is a witness to the world of Gods presence, therefore it must be purified, Holy as He is Holy.

    We are told not to judge unbelievers in the same passage in I Cor.

  57. Beloved says:

    1 Corinthians 5:9-13
    9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[a] whom you are to judge? 13 God judges[b] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

  58. Beloved says:

    Pooh it’s not about your scripture reference it’s your obvious and persistent obsession with someone who wants nothing to do with you.

  59. Beloved says:

    Keeping the church pure was serious business to Paul.
    1 Corinthians 4:14-21 English Standard Version (ESV)
    14 I do not write these things to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you have countless[a] guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me. 17 That is why I sent[b] you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ,[c] as I teach them everywhere in every church. 18 Some are arrogant, as though I were not coming to you. 19 But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power. 20 For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. 21 What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?

  60. jeff1 says:

    There has to be trust before there can be forgiveness and that means a willingness on the offender’s part to show the offended that they mean what they say otherwise the offended doesn’t know it it is just lip service as we know that many will talk the talk but its a very different story when it comes to walking the walk.

    Not everyone can be trusted to do what is right and unfortunately that is often just as true of believers as it is of non and why it is often difficult to see a difference.

  61. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve, I am so sorry you are having a rough week. Special prayers for you, Matthew and Glenna. Knowing that your plate overflows with difficult tasks and heartaches. In addition to all that at your age, you still find time to do for your community, your neighbors, and us here at BTA. I have no idea what possesses anyone that claims to know God and yet attempts to chop up such a good man, almost daily.

  62. bubbles says:

    Steve, I prayed for you, Matt, and Glenna when I read your post earlier today. Take care.

  63. Beloved says:

    In Christ Alone

    In Christ alone my hope is found
    He is my light, my strength, my song
    This cornerstone, this solid ground,
    Firm through the fiercest drought and storm.
    What heights of love, what depths of peace,
    When fears are stilled, when strivings cease!
    My comforter, my all in all
    Here in the love of Christ I stand.
    In Christ alone, Who took on flesh,
    Fullness of God in helpless babe!
    This gift of love and righteousness,
    Scorned by the ones He came to save.
    ‘Til on that cross as Jesus died,
    The wrath of God was satisfied
    For ev’ry sin on Him was laid
    Here in the death of Christ I live.
    There in the ground His body lay,
    Light of the world by darkness slain
    Then bursting forth in glorious day,
    Up from the grave He rose again!
    And as He stands in victory,
    Sin’s curse has lost its grip on me
    For I am His and He is mine
    Bought with the precious blood of Christ.
    No guilt in life, no fear in death
    This is the pow’r of Christ in me
    From life’s first cry to final breath,
    Jesus commands my destiny.
    No pow’r of hell, no scheme of man,
    Can ever pluck me from His hand
    ‘Til He returns or calls me home
    Here in the pow’r of Christ I’ll stand.

  64. street says:

    thinking about forgiveness. it is free and unmerited. Jesus died to pay a debt that some will never receive the benefit of that payment. so for them Jesus died for nothing and did it freely. for the elect an eternal debt of love and thanksgiving. this grace and mercy is off the chart of human understanding save for what damage sin has accomplished in our personal experience and understanding. the one who is forgiven more loves more.

  65. street says:

    thinking of love. in order to love some one you would need to know them very well. from a sinners perspective they would need the Spirit of God too.

  66. SFDBWV says:

    I thought on a site designed to help make us think, that my little litmus test about Cosby and the serial killer would at least make some of us think about the difference between mercy and justice, forgiveness and un-forgiveness.

    I agree fully with Pearl concerning Cosby. At first I thought perhaps he was singled out because of his money, but then if the accusations against him were legitimate he owed these women a heartfelt and profound apology at least and restitution in some form or another.

    I don’t know anything more than what the news reports, but I do know what any lawyer would tell Cosby; “don’t say anything.”

    An admission of guilt is the beginning of forgiveness. And healing.

    As for the serial killer; there are a lot of variables that go into the mind of a serial killer. They are either pure evil or very sick mentally even if they appear not to be.

    In other cases from different killers I have read that in the end before their execution some do apologize to the families of their victims while others say nothing, making the pain worse.

    The whole exercise makes we wonder what the difference is between the forgiveness between God and man and man and man.

    If we murder another man it is a violation of a God given law, yet we are no longer under the law if we accept Jesus as Lord. God forgives because of Jesus.

    If we ask God for forgiveness,right?

    However murder is still a crime against another human being and while the murdered can’t either forgive or not, society must take up the task of providing mercy or exacting justice.

    If we do so solely from a Christian point of view, what then is our point of view to be?

    Mercy or justice?

    Thank you Pearl and Bubbles and Joyce. Pearl just so any understand, the role model for my life is Jesus of Nazareth and while I can never be Him I can try and be like Him in all that I do.

    31 degrees under a mix of clouds and a bright moon peeking through between the clouds. I thought this morning I could hear Lon Chaney and Bela Lugosi as I went out to feed the critters.

    Steve

  67. jeff1 says:

    I went to a charity event yesterday for Cancer Focus and it was held at the Barons court Estate which is home to a British nobleman, peer and politician.

    It was held inside the Castle and it was a joy to look around at the beauty of the pictures, plants, flowers and design and decor of the Castle.

    The Duke himself was present but the absence of the Duchess soon had tongues wagging.

    She is very unwell and has just been to away for up-to-date treatment for cancer and it was general knowledge that her diagnose is not good.

    I looked at the Duke who is now in his eighties and he looked pale but being very much the gentleman and shaking hands with people and welcoming them and asking did we get our refreshments as we were seated at tables awaiting tea, jam with raspberry & fresh cream scones, and the delights that many of the local women’s institute had baked for the occasion.

    I thought of how difficult it must be for him to wear a mask today when his dear wife is so ill.

    My friend commented to me how when it comes down to it it doesn’t matter who we are illness can hit us at any time in our life and it is the same for us all from the poorest to the richest, the youngest to the eldest, we are flesh and subject to what this world brings.

    When I think of how fragile we are then I see God’s forgiveness and mercy pouring down on us and reassuring us that this is not our home but a temporary dwelling place.

    I can only speak for myself and I have always believed in God but that doesn’t mean I haven’t made many bad calls but I cannot undo the past and so why I live very much in the present as it is where I find peace with God knowing that God isn’t counting my bad choices but allowing me to rest in his mercy.

    I don’t know what tomorrow holds but I know who holds tomorrow because there is very little within my control when I stop to think about it and that makes me very thankful that I trust God because the more I see of this world the more I realise my need of Him.

    I don’t see it is a matter of me forgiving peoples wrongs as I don’t believe I have that right as God wants me to trust Him in not just forgiving my wrongs but in forgiving the wrongs of others I know nothing about and He is the rightful judge and if I don’t see that then I am not following God but instead I am playing Him and making judgement calls that are not mine to make.

    Why does God want me to focus on Christ? He wants me to focus on Christ as when I do that I no longer look at the sins of others but realise just how lacking I am myself.

    When I see how lacking I am myself I am thankful at how God is pouring His forgiveness and mercy down on me and that humbles me so that I can see that the needs of others are greater than my own.

    I met a man at the airport
    Going home cause his brother had died
    I tried to soften his sorrow
    He smiled at me and replied

    We’re all passin through
    Do unto others as you’d have done to you
    Do what you can
    You’re fellow man is travel-in too
    We’re all passin through

    I keep his words in my memory
    They keep my heart from consent
    It’s a lesson for livin
    I’ll pass on to all that I meet

    We’re all passin through
    Do unto others as you’d have done to you
    Do what you can
    Your fellow man is travel-in too
    We’re all passin through

    No one know how long their journey may be
    It’s not how far but how well you’ve travelled
    That God will see

    The old man smiled and departed
    Our brief encounter ended
    He left the seeds of a memory
    And words I’ll never forget

    We’re all passin through
    Do unto others as you’d have done to you
    Do what you can
    You’re fellow man is travel-in too
    We’re all passin through

    We’re all passin through
    We’re all passin through

  68. bubbles says:

    jeff, thank you for sharing your yesterday with us here. You are blessed to live in a lovely place. I am sorry to read about this woman with the diagnosis. It’s a horrible thing.

  69. SFDBWV says:

    Viv that is just a marvelous comment, thank you for sharing. You are a beautiful human being and my good fortune to know you.

    Steve

  70. poohpity says:

    Where did forgiveness originate from?

    Have you ever lied to someone and not gone to them and confessed your lie but told more lies to cover it up?

    Have you ever wanted what someone else has?

    Have you ever put someone or something before or above God?

    Have you ever idolized a person or a thing?

    Have you ever yelled or lied to your parents or say you hated them?

    Have you ever been angry with someone and they know nothing about it?

    Have you ever taken something from work like pens, gas or some other equipment the company has paid for but you didn’t?

    Have you ever spread rumors or malicious gossip behind someone’s back based on your perception not actual facts or even based on facts?

    Have you ever cheated on your income taxes in your own favor?

    Have you ever looked at someone of the opposite sex or that is not your spouse with lust?

    Have you ever shown favoritism of one person over another?

    Have you shown prejudices against skin color or nationality or sexual orientation or religion or poorness?

    Those are all God’s laws but some people only concentrate on; have you ever murdered or raped someone or committed adultery.

    James 2:8 Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.

    10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. 11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

    12 So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free. 13 There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you.

    Forgive? I guess that depends on if one wants to be forgiven.

  71. poohpity says:

    Even thinking for a moment that my sins are not as bad as what someone else has done does not know God very well at all nor the extent of what His grace is all about.

  72. poohpity says:

    As Mart asked, “Does anyone deserve to be let off the hook of a wrong done? After ruining the lives of others, what right does someone have to ask for mercy?” No one deserves to be let off the hook and no one has the right to ask for mercy. But that did not stop God from sending Jesus to suffer for us. His body being ripped open until it was unrecognizable as human flesh and then the curse of being nailed to a tree. He did not deserve that yet did it anyway so that we could have a relationship with God being redeemed and to be called His children.

    If one can not recognize the sin within their own lives and would rather point the finger at others and look at them as the world does by calling one wrong worse than another then they will never understand grace, mercy or forgiveness.

  73. poohpity says:

    If one does not understand that grace, mercy or forgiveness they will never be able to give it to others.

  74. jeff1 says:

    Yes, Bubbles I am blessed to be able to see such beauty as it reminds me of what God has in store for us in His Kingdom to come which is His will for us when all the things that are not of His Kingdom pass away.

    When we are no longer subject to any kind of suffering and know God cares more than we can humanly understand because He is so beyond our comprehension and that is what we eventually come to understand just how majestic God is and how great our need of Him.

    Steve, it is I who am blessed to know you and others who have been through so much in your lives and have shown me how you have trusted Jesus because I have struggled greatly in my faith and you do not realise how much you personally are an example and you remind me so much of my dad who had to look after my mum, brother and I when we were unwell and you do the same for your family and especially Mathew who is so in need of your care.

    A caregiver gives so much of themselves that it is a sacrifice of their own life as I have known a few and seen the sacrifices they made for their loved ones.

    God sees everything about us the good and the bad but He loves us because it is who He is and not who we are and those who care for others show the fruits of His Spirit better than anyone because they care for the vulnerable who is unable to take care of themselves and that puts them very close to God in my eyes anyway.

  75. Beloved says:

    Who taught the sun where to stand in the morning?
    Who told the ocean you can only come this far?
    Who showed the moon where to hide ’til evening?
    Whose words alone can catch a falling star?
    Well I know my Redeemer lives
    I know my Redeemer lives
    All of creation testify
    This life within me cries
    I know my Redeemer lives
    The very same God that spins things in orbit
    He runs to the weary, the worn and the weak
    And the same gentle hands that hold me when I’m broken
    They conquered death to bring me victory
    Now I know my Redeemer lives
    I know my Redeemer lives
    Let all creation testify
    Let this life within me cry
    I know my Redeemer, He lives
    To take away my shame
    And He lives forever, I’ll proclaim
    That the payment for my sin
    Was the precious life He gave
    But now He’s alive and
    There’s an empty grave
    Now I know my Redeemer lives
    I know my Redeemer lives
    Let all creation testify
    Let this life within me cry
    I know my Redeemer, He lives
    Nicole C Mullins

  76. poohpity says:

    Isn’t it just the norm to care for those one loves but to show that same care to those who we deem as enemies or for those who spit in our face that is a sign of the Fruit of the Spirit.

    Jesus said, ““If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. 36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.”

  77. Beloved says:

    If one does not understand that grace, mercy or forgiveness they will never be able to give it to others.

    It is only by the grace of God we are able to understand anything good at all.

  78. poohpity says:

    It is by His spirit of good living in us that we are able to extend good to others not anything of ourselves since most are bent on returning evil for evil not the teaching or example of Jesus to do good(forgiving and mercy) to those who do evil to us. Doing that wins hearts for Christ.

  79. poohpity says:

    The good Jesus did for me when I deserved so much worse is what won my heart for Christ. I would imagine that is exactly what won many of His followers to Him in the first place.

  80. poohpity says:

    From everything that is written in scripture the main theme seems that God gave us what we did not deserve from the OT through the NT. There was not one person who did not falter, fail in some form or another all throughout scripture but for those who sought after God He showed them mercy, forgiveness and grace. The only one’s that was not true for were those who did not feel or think they needed grace, mercy or forgiveness because they thought their lives were righteous all in and of themselves. As narrow referred to earlier the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector;

    Luke 18:9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

  81. Beloved says:

    Street brings up a good point. The more you know someone the more you love them. But God’s love is all encompassing because He knows us completely, and it takes the Spirit of God in us to love others, warts and all.

    Maybe I’m such a pushover because I’ve been forgiven of so much more than most I know. Never thought of my life in that way, thanks street. Ive been told by pastors my life focus was dealing with all the sin in my life. Little wonder I’m depressed! Love is the better way. His love shed abroad in our hearts.

  82. foreverblessed says:

    What right have we toch ask for mercy?
    Mart asks.
    I have been thinking about this.
    And I have been busy, no time to comment.
    But that gave me time to think about it.
    Mart asks some more questions, how can someone get away, having hurt someone else (badly).

    Today I sat in church, and
    Romans 3:22
    Romans 3:26

    What right have I?

    I stand on the Word of God.
    Through faith in Jesus Christ
    Son of God
    Come in the flesh
    Born of the Virgin Mary.

    Who stood in my place, and said: I’ll take up all her sins.
    And I take all the consequences of her sin.
    She is mine, and I, Jesus, will make right eveything that she has wronged. I will restore everybody whom she has hurt (badly).

    Because she believes in Me, I am the Lord of her heart, and I am THE ONE who restores.

    I AM the One, who makes everything new!!!

  83. Beloved says:

    Thank you to Mart and ALL posters here. I learn much from you all. You are a wonderful addition to my life.

  84. street says:

    thinking of the selflessness of love. we all love things we should not. if we should not can we call it love? the freedom of love is more difficult to understand than anything. when we ask for things from some one we know that loves us. how will they respond? if they knew us and loved us they would respond in what we needed not with what we wanted. if our need and want were the same, then i think it would be truly interesting. even in this the waiting and trusting is difficult. we are called to live by the faith that has been given to us. it’s difficult, but God is good and He can be trusted in all things. Jesus said it is finished and He never lied. learning to rest in the finished work of Christ. learning to love trust soar and walk through vally

  85. street says:

    poohpity says:
    April 29, 2018 at 8:19 am

    Where did forgiveness originate from?

    it originates from a cross, sin did not receive a pass.

  86. street says:

    steve thinking of the woman in Texas a few years ago on death row. she came to national attention in her appeal to life in prison instead of death. from some accounts she became a follower of Christ in prison. the Christian community appealed for a commuted sentence. she understood that she could suffer as murder and receive the maximum punishment and she knew she was not suppose to suffer for doing wrong but for doing right. commuted sentence was not granted. she accepted the sentence. it was a very tough day, but not without hope.

  87. Beloved says:

    “there is a kind of forgiveness that lovingly requires/and responds to a change of heart.” Change my heart, oh LORD.

  88. billystan454 says:

    All sin requires confession. But Jesus also taught us two seemingly different concepts on the ideal of human to human forgiveness. First if we have wronged another we are to seek forgiveness for the wrong. Second if we are wronged, we are not to just sit and wallow in the hurt. We are to approach our brother or sister let them know they’ve wronged and how they’ve wronged us. It is then up to them to either seek forgiveness, or try explaining it away.
    I’ll give an example: Sometimes my mouth gets ahead of my thoughts and I say something that, to me, seems perfectly innocent, but to the person I’m saying it is offensive. If the brother or sister I’ve just offended says nothing-how will I know I’ve offended them.
    I wholeheartedly believe that to offend another human is to also offend God. Because we are all created in His image. But to claim that I possess even a minute fraction of Jesus’ ability to forgive is completely naïve. To err is human.
    We should always do our very best to be Christ-like, but honestly, we never will be because we are fully human.

  89. jeff1 says:

    This song from Sunday morning reflections reminding me of how He doesn’t forsake me/us.

    Lord I am so tired and weak, I don’t think I can stand.
    The trials of life, they take there toll, I wonder who I am.
    Impatience always follows me, and Lord I’m just a man.
    But with your arms around me the world won’t stand a chance.

    Jesus let me walk with you, let me hold your hand.
    Help me to make it Lord, to your promised land.
    I know I’m not perfect Lord, and I’ll never be,
    Jesus let me hold you hand, let me walk with you.

    Sometimes the battles Lord, they get the best of me.
    I start to cry and tremble as fear takes hold of me.
    But then I hear that still voice whispering to me.
    Let me have your burden son and I will set you free.

    Jesus let me walk with you, let me hold your hand.
    Help me to make it Lord to your promised land.
    I know I’m not perfect and I’ll never be.
    Jesus let me hold your hand, let me walk with you,

    Jesus let me hold your hand,
    Jesus let me hold your hand,
    Jesus let me hold your hand,
    Let me walk with you.

  90. street says:

    thinking of job’s encounter with God. not one time did God ever accuse job of any sin or wrong doing. never none 0. but we do see a confession. the story is incredible when you think of Romans. just like the woman caught in adultery. He did tell her to sin no more. thinking of those who came to Jesus, did we read of a list of sin they confessed? some He pardoned without them even asking. there is a lot more going on here below the surface. seems God can see things we are missing. thinking election not works. when i was born into this world i had no say in the matter on any account. if the new birth is the same, i have no say. i did have a say in what i did because of Who’s image i am made after. only because i am a moral agent. right and wrong. but even then i am dead because of adam’s sin. born again, to make alive in God. an act of God, believed on in man. not worked on. work out your salvation in fear and trembling …..thinking staying away from sin. the sin of my own flesh not others sin even though that too could cause stumbling blocks. denying yourself taking up your cross daily and following. the following, thinking rest here, is the goal, being in His presents daily live. the former doesn’t work. a rest of living activity. activities of faith. works of God

  91. jeff1 says:

    Strive to do what is right in His sight and accept that I won’t do it perfectly but don’t stop trying as God sees that I desire to do better.

    The voices that condemn are not His small voice but the worlds and often my own because I allow past wrongs to come back to haunt me and they can disturb my peace but keep giving the burden to Him as in time it will fade and peace will come and I will know that it is God at work in me and not of my own strength because without Him I can do nothing.

    Without Him, I could do nothing
    Without Him, I’d surely fail
    Without Him, I would be drifting
    Like a ship, without a sail

    Without Him, I would be dying
    Without Him, I’d be enslaved
    Without Him, life would be worthless
    But with Jesus, thank God I’m saved

    Oh Jesus, oh Jesus
    Do you know Him today?
    Please don’t turn Him away

    Oh Jesus, my Jesus
    Without Him, how lost I would be
    Without Him, how lost I would be

  92. poohpity says:

    For me, I know that God wants His best for me and knows that if I lived without His forgiveness or forgiving others would lead me to have a cold, hard heart and that is not what is best for me. God knows that all humans mess up thus the old saying, “To err is human, to forgive is divine.” I am not only acting like the example given by God to forgive(first given in the garden) but the human part of me knows that everybody messes up too. Do I deserve God’s forgiveness, No but that did not stop Him from gifting me with that wonderful undeserved gift called grace.

  93. poohpity says:

    I forgive because God in Christ forgave me, no matter what anyone else does or says that is the bottom line for me.

  94. poohpity says:

    Eph 1: 3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ. 4 Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. 5 God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure. 6 So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son. 7 He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins. 8 He has showered his kindness on us, along with all wisdom and understanding.

  95. SFDBWV says:

    I think most of us would agree that there are two kinds of “trespasses”, one against God and the other against each other.

    Or are the two combined?

    Would you consider the trespasses against God as only pertaining to God? As in Exodus 20:3-8 “You shall not have other gods besides me”, “You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky or in the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth.” “You shall not bow down before them or worship them.” “You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain.” “Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.”

    And the trespasses against others as only pertaining to people as in Exodus 12:12-17

    Or do you consider any trespass against another person as being a trespass also against God?

    Once again, once we accept Jesus as Lord and confess our sins God if faithful to forgive all.

    However does such an act as gaining forgiveness from God conclude the matter of forgiveness without also seeking forgiveness from a person we have trespassed against?

    Any Christian who is ask to forgive is bound by their faith to give forgiveness to any that ask.

    However if forgiveness is not ask forgiveness can still occur; but is the Christian bound by their faith to do so in compliance to an ordinance or does it take more in order for forgiveness and peace to come to the offended? Without it being an ordinance?

    It seems to me that a large amount of facts and information has to be digested and pondered and yes even the healing salve of time occur before unrequested forgiveness can actually occur.

    Really occur, not just saying so in order to try and convince yourself or another that you actually have forgiven someone else for unrequested forgiveness of a trespass.

    Time is short but my thoughts go deep.

    Steve

  96. poohpity says:

    Does the forgiveness of sin depend on whether we confess or admit to them or was that a plan that was set into place from the foundation of the world and the confession being the recognition and agreement with God that we need forgiveness for our awareness which God was already aware of before we were even born He knew us?

  97. SFDBWV says:

    It seems also to me that once God became flesh in the person of Jesus of Nazareth that all of the trespasses explained in the famous 10 are then directed against Him as well.

    In fact Jesus said if you do any wrong against the very least of people you also do it against Him.

    So no trespass done by any of us becomes a “sin” against God as well as a sin against people.

    God’s forgiveness came in the sacrifice of Himself upon the cross. He forgives me, not because of me, but because of that sacrifice Jesus did in my place.

    So now how do I forgive someone who has “wronged” me?

    I wonder if it isn’t the same. Because Jesus took that persons sin with him against me to the cross.

    If I am required to accept Jesus as Lord as a condition of receiving salvation. Am I then bound to forgive someone who doesn’t ask it from me?

    Is forgiveness the same as the offence no longer a matter of importance to me? That the offence no longer eats at me or controls my thoughts?

    If it just doesn’t matter anymore and has no importance to me is that the same as forgiving?

    It is written as for as the east is from the west that is how far God has removed our transgressions from Him. (Psalms 103:12 KJV)

    Does that mean forgiven and forgotten or just blotted out from memory as it no longer matters, or both?

    Matt is having a better day, thank you all who pray for him.

    Steve

  98. Beloved says:

    I think that when we demand an apology we are demanding justice. Do we have that right? Or are we judging another to satisfy our own selfish desires? Seems as God is the only just judge, only He can judge with mercy and Grace. We are told to do these things, Micah 6:8 but our fickle hearts change at the drop of a hat. Any apology can be discarded by one offended but as Jesus said in Luke17 7 times we must forgive, whether we like it or not. Waiting for or even demanding an apology propels us into legalistic bondage. Let the peace of Christ dwell in you richly. He is our peace.

  99. street says:

    forgiveness the full measure of love.

    put the measuring rod away.

    the rod kills.

    take up the cross and follow Jesus.

    love covers a multitude of sin.

    learning to love.

    love, the dying of self.

    Jesus, the selfless man Who is alive even though He gave up His life to redeem.

    a man is no fool to give up what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose. jim elliot

    thinking true love is never lost. baaaah

    true love is eternal.

    Hebrews 11

  100. Beloved says:

    Luke 21:33
    New International Version
    Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

    A very Godly man that wounded me greatly just died at the age of 69. A shock to many. How do I feel? He never apologized even after confronting him face to face and by letter. I feel relieved he’s gone so I can close that chapter of my life finally, yet sad for his family. I know I will see him in heaven again and am rejoicing that as all sins are forgiven so shall both he and I walk in a different way of being. Wounds and scars will be gone, no more nightmares etc. Mixed feelings as I am fully human as was mentioned. But we have a blessed hope no sin can take away!

  101. SFDBWV says:

    That is an interesting point you put forward Joyce. Are you saying that, God, in demanding we ask Him for forgiveness of our sins is requiring it just so He can satisfy His own selfish desires?

    Some of my comment may have gotten lost. So let me say this if you have wronged another person do you feel obligated to apologize? Or not?

    Would you feel that if you have offended another person that they should not expect an apology from you, or that if they do they are somehow arrogant and selfish?

    Just want to make sure the air is clear.

    Steve

  102. Beloved says:

    When I offend others inadvertently I remember the weaker brother lesson of Pauls and apologize for offending. If out of the blackness of my heart the offense comes I apologize. To err is human.. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Nowhere does God tell us to demand anything, even an apology. Kingdom rules are different. Walk by faith or by sight. Hard to do in the body but something important to work toward as we are daily a step closer to Zion!
    Hope that’s a little bit clearer than mud Steve.

  103. Beloved says:

    From personal experience just now… When someone wounds you it’s real and causes a change inside that you alone are left to bear. Jesus showed me His hand once, I’ll never forget it. He suffered and was wounded just as we all are by one another. That’s why He understands us in our pain so well. He felt it. But His suffering was to bring us all to glory with Him. Isn’t that the best and most important thing!! Apologizing to one another is healing and gives us courage to continue on our walk in the world. But whether we apologize or are not given an apology we have a High Priest who’s own blood fulfilled the law of God. Hallelujah

  104. SFDBWV says:

    From Jesus’ own written words; Matthew 5:21-26 KJV

    Especially Matthew 5:23 KJV and Matthew 5:24 KJV

    Asking forgiveness of our offences is more than just being polite, trying to make things right with another is required.

    What then if your “brother” won’t allow it?

    The rule of the Mosaic Law says to go and get 2 or more witnesses try and rectify the problem again and if it still can’t be fixed then you are free of your obligation.

    Need I get the Scripture verse to back up what I have just said?

    Steve

  105. foreverblessed says:

    Need I get the scripture reference?
    It’s not the Mosaic Law, it is Jesus Himself who said that.
    Matthew 18:15-17

  106. foreverblessed says:

    And how do you treat a pagan or a tax collector?
    Romans 12:20

    Steve, I very much appreciate all your thoughts on forgiving!
    ( And every one’s, Dinakar, thanks!)
    But in all Steve’s thoughts you can see the theme of forgiving evolving!

    Not much time to write, but I say amen to:
    1-Forgiving the other is best for your own health!
    2- Forgiving the other is leaving everything in God’s hands.
    Romans 12:19

  107. poohpity says:

    “love does not DEMAND it’s own way”

    When a brother/sister has something against you and you have made every attempt to reconcile on your part, the hand has been extended but being still rejected because your attempt was not deemed good enough you have done your part but if someone does not even go to church or before an alter to offer their gifts of worship what are you actually stopping?

    There is big difference when a brother/sister SINS against you take two or three people who have also witnessed that sin(Matt 18:15-17) and the Mosaic law when one moves a boundary line(Deut 19:14-17) and to take 2 or 3 witnesses with you. In both instances it also says to be aware of false accusations because they happen and as we see in our country it can lead others to believe the same thing as in brain washing or propaganda which has caused division in our country but not based on facts.

    The big words there are “has SINNED” against you, not disagreed with you or thinks differently but “sinned against you” and telling lies about someone is a sin.

  108. Beloved says:

    Steve and Forever i too follow what Jesus said, my point was He never said to demand an apology. If their heart is so hardened at that point theres nothing more to say to them until they receive grace to see their trespass. It does no good to even keep reminding them if they are blinded by whatever. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us. Not as we demand but as God requires.

  109. Beloved says:

    I think Jesus fulfilled the Law.

  110. foreverblessed says:

    God bless you Pooh, with lots of Love, and Peace, and Rest!!!

    Leave room for the wrath of God:
    Romans 12:19
    Last week someone asked me, is God punishing us for tresspassing? Like Moses: you will not cross over
    And Annanias and Sapphira, Acts 5:1-11
    Then I came accross a study: the vengeance of God.
    It is on thecharacterofgod website.

    And I find it awesome!!!
    -Gods plan is : restoring people!

    -God looks for a change of heart. God can look into a heart, we can’t. If God sees someone has come to their senses, like the prodigal son, no need to talk further. He puts His arms around him: Welcome back!

    But in a church setting, there is teaching, learning situations: confronting in a loving way.
    Teach: You dont treat each other like that. You say sorry, or you say: like dinakar said: it was not my intention to hurt you, I am sorry.

    But a pagan, you dont teach, you just ” heap coles on his head”.

  111. Beloved says:

    I think that ‘fulfilled ‘ means Jesus death as the sinless sacrifice means we dont walk around with the tablets on our shoulders but we carry the Spirit of God within and through us, individually and corporately.The Spirit that gives freedom, not bondage to do this and do that. The Bible contains the marvelous history of Gods work throughout history. And is good for teaching and reproof as Paul told Timothy, his trainee. It takes the whole of scripture to understand Gods thoughts/ways. Im still learning but will never know it all. That dark glass you know.

  112. poohpity says:

    forever I do not expect you to understand what those scriptures mean about addressing a brother or sister caught in sin not something that offends us but a SIN. One would have to know what is a sin? Pricking someone’s pride is not a sin.

    Arrogance and pride, “demand” as Beloved was sharing and is not love or forgiveness because it is self serving.

  113. foreverblessed says:

    Beloved, Jesus gave that commando: Matt 18:16
    If a brother sins again you, go and show him his fault.
    IF he listens to you…..
    ( A sin: someone tells a lie about you)

    What do you think this means:
    If he listens to you?
    Does that not imply, that he says sorry?
    Matthew 18:15
    If he listens to you, you have won your Brotherhood!
    Wow, that’s the thing! Restoration!

    But if he does not listen, that is when he does not say sorry!
    In fact, he will actually rehearse his sin, ( like telling the same lie about you all over again, and this time with even more detail)

    Then there is the next step, you take someone else with you.
    And you tell him his sin against you. In other words: You confront him again.
    Matthew 18:16

    This is what Jesus tells us to do!
    It is not out of the law of Moses.

    It is the New Covenant thing!

    If he still does not listen….
    To me this means you do not demand a sorry, but in the reaction you see: the person does not see his fault. He does not even say:
    I am so sorry to have hurt you. That was not my intention at Alliander.

    Then the next step, you go to the church, and tell it to the church, Matthew 18:17
    You repeat: This person tells lies about me.
    ( That is what I call, church discipline, or on a blog: a Moderator)

    Christ does not say we demand a sorry, we just repeat 3 Times: this is what you have done against me.
    And then Jesus says: if he does not listen, treat him as a pagan.
    Which to me means, leave him alone.
    Love him as you would love an enemy.
    Always love, but he is no longer part of the christian fellowship.

    Jesus is saying: within the Brotherhood of the church, you confront, in a meek and low attitude Romans 12:3

    As Jude writes: keep yourselves in Gods love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ
    Jude 20-23

    I see this, that you forgive the personen, meaning, leaving it in Gods hands to touch a heart. You have done what you had to do, with no succes. He is now a pagan to you. An outsider.

    So forgiving does not mean in this case, go on as before.
    No, he is now an outsider to you.

    But you hope he will change some time. You stand outside like the father of the prodigal son.
    With great godly hope in your heart.

    1 Cor 13:7 Love always hopes

  114. Beloved says:

    How did Jesus treat pagans? Weren’t we all pagans at one time?

  115. Beloved says:

    Didnt Jesus show us how to treat pagans through His encounters with sinners?

  116. Beloved says:

    As street said there is one moderator on this blog, Christ Jesus. Tuning our hearts, minds and ears to Him.
    Thinking about hurt feelings, a lot of hullabaloo over earthly passions it seems to me. A good opportunity to deny self for Christs sake.

  117. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed, thank you for straightening me out on my train of thought. I knew the gist of what I wanted to say just no time to fully recall or go get Scripture.

    Thank you very much it is indeed the very words of Jesus, who is the fulfilment of the law. Not the Mosaic Law as I first thought.

    I am very pleased also that you understand the thrust of my message.

    Steve

  118. Beloved says:

    Steve you asked if i would expect an apology from someone that sinned against me. Absolutely! But I can tell you from personal experience it doesnt always happen, even amongst believers. Ive been physically assaulted by 2 different pastors. The first was when I was a new believer so didnt know it was wrong in the church. The pastor assaulted me once and said it mattered if whether my husband used his fist but not his open hand on me. His heart was hard. The second pastor assaulted me because i wasnt friendly to him and when I tried to explain depression he couldnt hear me. A hard heart. Confronting authority isnt so easy when your already downtrodden, but i did manage to do it both times. No energy left to go to the elders. These were serious then and now. May God be merciful to them because I cant right now. I avoid pastors in the flesh. We all need Gods mercy as pearl says. Yes.

  119. foreverblessed says:

    You are very welcome Steve, I have to thank you for your train of thoughts. They help me, to have this ” forgiveness”

    We always have to love, always have to forgive.
    We aske God to fill our hearts with Love and Foto
    We have to be poor of spirit to know, we do not have that love.
    Especially when the offender shows no remorse. NO, even blames you for being so unforgivable.

    I was thinking about the brother of Matt 18:15-17.

    Think about him: three times someone comes and shows him his fault.
    He doesn’t see he has done anything wrong. And not one time, no three times he has to hear the accusations.

    So he says: leave me alone. You are harrassing me.
    I feel I am being stalked.
    What are you, a Christian, dont you know about forgiveness?
    What right have you to tell me what I have done wrong.
    First take out the beam out of your own eye and then get the splinter out of mine eye
    Dont you know that Jesus forgives, and forgets? And you come here now the third time.
    Cant you let it go?

    Beloved: Then what do you think Jesus meant to say:
    Treat him as you would a taxcollector and a pagan?

  120. street says:

    thinking about john the baptist. a righteous man who prepared the way for the Messiah. telling the nation they needed to repent and be ready for their Messiah. in this preparation, he preach a baptism of repentance, a change of mind. The Messiah did show up very quickly in an unexpected way.

    this brings me to these verse….6 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits.

  121. street says:

    38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses. 40 Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets may not come upon you:

    41
    ‘Behold, you scoffers, and marvel, and perish;
    For I am accomplishing a work in your days,
    A work which you will never believe, though someone should describe it to you.’”

  122. Beloved says:

    Forever I’m not sure what you are asking me. I though I explained it. I’m too tired now to think any more about the blog. Thanks

  123. SFDBWV says:

    Joyce while I have never been physically abused by anyone I have endured plenty of slander by professing Christians as well as good honest citizens who have had to pay a fine or didn’t like obeying the law.

    Being bad mouthed behind my back is something I got used to many years ago.

    But I don’t allow any of those negative things define me.

    During our annual flood control inspection just last week while talking with a man from Africa I was explaining the concept of that old adage “No good deed goes unpunished”. He looked a little puzzled and ask in his heavy African accent if that meant it was wrong to do something good?

    Almost simultaneously I and another inspector said together, “No always do the right thing and let the chips fall where they lay.”

    I personally never expect an apology from people who do me wrong. In fact I am more astonished when and if ever they do.

    I just go on being me and not let the offenses of others change my course of action or of life.

    I have found that God is my defender and those who may offend are always shown for what they are by their own actions.

    I have always been blessed to have the Holy Spirit speak up for me and He does that through others so that I don’t have to.

    Of course I speak of small infractions such as slander.

    When my first wife died I could easily have sued the Hospital for her death as she was over dosed with pain medication and died from pneumonia as a result, but did not.

    I easily could have sued the hospital for mistreatment of Matthew during his time in the hospital, but did not.

    My suing would not have changed anything and I had more important things to do at that time and spending time in court was not in Matthew’s nor my best interest.

    So forgive and forget is the way to peace over the matters.

    Where do I learn how to forgive and forget? From Jesus my teacher, my example, my Lord.

    Have a nice evening.

    Steve

  124. poohpity says:

    Sadly there seems to be a mass of confusion about that Matt passage does not say go to someone and tell them their faults, it says if they sin against you(Matt 18:15 then tell them their fault which means the fault being that sin. We are not to tell others their faults we are to share our own faults with them. When someone sins it ruins their relationship with God first off then, more often than not, they stop reading their bible, stop going to church, stop praying and then stop going around the person they sinned against which restoration in relationships is the purpose that is true.(James 5:15-16)

    The bigger problem in relationships seems that people take it as a personal attack or personal insult and really get offended when someone does not see eye to eye with then or disagrees or has a different thought pattern or gets a correction, that is actually an ego/pride problem not necessarily a sin problem. Those people want everyone to think like they do if not they get angry and hate that may lead to sin.

  125. phpatato says:

    It seems to me that in this day and age the word forgiveness has taken on a connotation of “psychological freedom” instead of freedom from sin.

    1 John 1:9 (KJV) – If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Acts 20:20-21 (NIV) – You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. 21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

    Confess – admit or state that one has committed a crime or is at fault in some way.
    Repent – feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one’s wrongdoing or sin

    As evidenced by these verses, it is true then that the forgiveness God extends to us is conditional upon our confession of sin and repentance. Sin remains unforgiven unless it is acted upon with confession and repentance.

    When we confess our wrong-doings before God, we are consciously aware that we have sinned and are showing a willingness to be held accountable for them. Confessing is an action word; it requires an action. Repenting requires a change of mind and a change in behaviour. It will show as a genuine desire to forsake the sin committed. Repenting is an action word as well. There is no free ride in God’s army. The Bible is full of action words and confessing and repenting are two that God requires.

    God’s requirement of confessing and repenting does not mean God is unwilling or unready to forgive. Through Christ’s death on Calvary, He has already gone to unimaginable lengths to provide to us the means by which He can forgive us. God freely offers us forgiveness but it by no means is free. It came at a great cost to Him.

    Because He has forgiven us after we confess and repent of our wrong-doings and sins, we in turn are therefore obligated to forgive those who have done us harm or wronged or offended us. And if that person continues to do us wrong, and comes repenting again and again, we in turn must forgive again and again. As Joyce has already indicated Biblically – 70 times 7 a day.

    What does forgiveness look like? An excellent definition of forgiveness is found in the book Unpacking Forgiveness by Chris Brauns:

    God’s forgiveness: A commitment by the one true God to pardon graciously those who repent and believe so that they are reconciled to him, although this commitment does not eliminate all consequences.

    General human forgiveness: A commitment by the offended to pardon graciously the repentant from moral liability and to be reconciled to that person, although not all consequences are necessarily eliminated.

    What about the person who continuously does wrong against you and fails to apologize? How do I live 1 Corinthians 13:5 with this person?

    For me, after the first 3 or 4 times of being wronged and seeing that sorry means nothing, or in fact never comes, I become wiser. I realize the person just “doesn’t get it”. I therefore liken them to this:

    …..In a Charlie Brown cartoon, Lucy gets a big kick out of pulling the football away at the moment Charlie Brown goes to kick it. He ends up falling on his back. This goes on for several frames. Finally Lucy breaks down in tears and confesses, “Charlie Brown I have been so terrible to you over the years, picking up the football like I have. I have played so many cruel tricks on you, but I’ve seen the error of my ways! I’ve seen the hurt look in your eyes when I’ve deceived you. I’ve been wrong, so wrong. Won’t you give a poor penitent girl another chance?”

    Characteristically Charlie Brown is touched by her apparent sincerity and moved by her display of sorrow. “Of course,” said Charlie, “I’ll give you another chance.”

    So Charlie steps back. Lucy holds the ball. And Charlie runs ready to kick with all his might. Once again at the last possible moment, Lucy picks up the ball and Charlie Brown falls flat on his back.

    In the final frame the Peanuts creator, Charles Schulz, has Lucy saying, “Recognizing your faults and actually changing your ways are two different things, Charlie Brown!”

    Everybody in the world knows that Lucy is going to move the football away at the last second except one person — Charlie Brown. He forgives Lucy every time, continues to believe in her, and continues to place himself in a position to be hurt…..

    Love doesn’t minimize the seriousness of sin (It’s not saying, “Oh, no big deal. It really didn’t hurt. Forget it.” On the contrary, sin hurts. When we are wounded by the wrong doing of others, it is disingenuous to say, “no problem.”)

    Love isn’t resuming a relationship without changes (Forgiveness is a salve to begin healing, but it doesn’t remove the scars.)

    Love isn’t forgetting what happened (You may repress something, but you don’t literally forget it. Love doesn’t demand wiping the memory bank clean, but we can choose to let it go, not dwell on it, and not use the record of wrong to get even. We can “Let go. And let God.”)

    Charlie Brown doesn’t have to allow Lucy to hold the football next year. That’s not keeping a record of wrongs, that’s recognizing someone you can’t trust.

    So for me, a person who continuously does or says things that are just plain wrong and fails to say sorry – is someone I can’t trust. Period. To extend forgiveness to a sincere offender, YES!! every.single.time.

    Oh I almost forgot….Forgiveness should not be confused with forbearance.

    Disclaimer…I have read several articles on Forgiveness and have posted partial segments in some of the articles. What I posted, I believe. It is with sincere gratitude that I give credit to Got Questions and The PreachersWord websites.

  126. poohpity says:

    If one puts conditions on their forgiveness then have they really experienced the forgiveness, grace or mercy of Christ which is totally undeserved, unearned and unmerited?

  127. narrowpathseeker says:

    Foreverblessed, your Wisdom is showing…..you are forever Blessed!!! Your post on April 30, 2018 at 5:33 pm pretty much justifies “for me (imo)” why staying clear and/or protecting the other sheep from the wolf in sheep’s clothing (who has been confronted hundreds of times if not more) IS the RIGHT thing to do. I haven’t had time to get online here today until now(planting and landscaping) but this morning during my time with the Lord…my mind kept wandering to the situation here and this analogy came to me.

    Imagine an old farmer packing good food, water to drink, a bucket with soap and water for cleansing, while working in the fields… He is working the dung pile into the ground for his crops…..he periodically reaches in the pile with his bare hands to get a handful of dung to throw at birds, grasshoppers and even human passerby’s that he doesn’t like…then without washing his hands he reaches into the food supply and grabs something to eat.. NOW as people pass by he offers to feed them….preaches the importance of washing their hands before they eat and proceeds to grab the food with his own unwashed hands to share with them….they decline…….it is good food but it is defiled …no one wants to hear his preaching that he doesn’t practice himself and no one wants the food he has defiled . So he starts throwing dung at them…people get angry and stay clear of this old man…does that make them mean?…unChristlike?….unforgiving?!!! or does it just make them Wise?

  128. narrowpathseeker says:

    Pat!! WOW….that was a perfect example!!! Wisdom is just pouring down on BTA today….I didn’t see your post until after I posted at 7:45… I had already seen so much Wisdom flowing and looked again and saw even more!! God Bless you…I have been Blessed coming here today…Glad I took the time to check in. Steve’s comments are most often saturated with Wisdom..it seems to have spread heavily to those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

  129. poohpity says:

    Pat, I do not know who taught that or where you copied it from but there are several instances in the scripture of both conditional/unconditional forgiveness but bottom line:

    Eph 4 says; New Life in Christ
    …31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, outcry and slander, along with every form of malice. 32Be kind and tender-hearted to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ God forgave you. OR

    Col 3:12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.

    Colossians 3:13
    Bear with each other and forgive any complaint you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

    Then there is always the Golden rule that Jesus taught; “Do to others as you would have them do to you” you want forgiveness then forgive. Forgiveness shows the divine nature of God living within us but unless one has experienced that kind of forgiveness for themselves they do not know how to give it to others.

  130. street says:

    thinking of the joy of understanding wisdom set in a perfect setting as solomon describes in Proverbs. thinking of the fear joy and delight that are in Christ Jesus. solomon understood the fear of God and to depart from evil. to delight in the wisdom of Christ requires a new Spirit. i do not wish to throw water on any small ember or flame of joy, but to edify it in the face of Jesus. to exalt the supremacy of Christ. wisdom has a name, Jesus and many others. a joy to be shared.

  131. SFDBWV says:

    Jesus said for us to not cast pearls before pigs. It is a very blunt comment, but gets right to the point. It is a waste of something precious to present it to something that can’t appreciate it.

    The advice covers a great deal of attempts to open the ears of people who won’t listen.

    Wisdom is wasted on fools.

    This exercise once again shows how people will ignore Scripture in order to solidify their own stubborn hearts as well as misuse Scripture to defend their skewed view of everything, especially Christianity.

    At the very outset of this exercise I ask several questions, in seeking answers to these questions Truth and wisdom will reveal themselves. But if you don’t like hearing the Truth then just stay stunted right where you are and be satisfied with your own narrow view; but don’t then insist upon making your own narrow view the only true view.

    Personally I was very pleased to see Pat’s comment. She put a lot of effort in it and it speaks well of her and of truth.

    Equally it is always a pleasure to see Pearl comment.

    29 degrees and clear with that giant full moon setting in the western timber behind the house.

    The Humming Birds have started to stop in to their feeders these past few days.

    Steve

  132. poohpity says:

    Pat, forgive me for jumping to the conclusion that you did not name where some of that was copied from because I did not read to the bottom so I was wrong to accuse of plagiarism without having all the facts.

  133. poohpity says:

    If God had a plan in place before the beginning of time as scripture teaches which we did not even know what sin was until the law was given then His forgiveness, grace and mercy was already in place and it took belief in Jesus to obtain forgiveness, mercy and grace. God knew in advance that we would need it, nothing we could do would sway that plan but we could however either accept it or reject it but that forgiveness was in place. Free will.

    2 Tim 1:9 NLT; Titus 1:3; So did God need us to confess our sin or just for us to admit that we do sin that we would know the need to ask for forgiveness?

  134. poohpity says:

    “Again, God established, prior to the beginning of time, a way for us to be forgiven of our sins. Before we even existed, God the Father and the Word who became Jesus Christ (John 1:1-3, John 1:14) were in Their awesome love willing to pay the ultimate price—to have Jesus, beloved Son of the Father, sacrificed in suffering and death as a substitute for our sins.” Mario Seiglie

  135. poohpity says:

    Steve so who exactly are you referring to when you said “cast pearls before pigs”? Those who understand worldly concepts and forgive as the world forgives or those who understand spiritual matters and forgive as the Lord does?

  136. poohpity says:

    That was Titus 1:2 not 3

  137. poohpity says:

    “Come” spend time with Jesus and see if what one thinks about forgiveness changes! Discovery of who Jesus is and what He has done will transform one’s heart and mind to change then our focus will no longer be on others but be between you and God.

  138. poohpity says:

    If we are to motivate each other to acts of love and good works then persuading others to hold grudges because someone did not come to them to ask for forgiveness or they did not admit to the wrongs they have done be motivating more towards the way of the world which often people will carry anger, resentment in their hearts towards someone until they say they are sorry be the exact opposite of acts of love or good works?? Hebrews 10:24

  139. jeff1 says:

    There is a time and a place for forgiveness and I need to recognise when it is right to forgive.

    It isn’t an easy option to forgive if the offence is a capital offence and those who carried it out unknown and unlikely to be brought to justice so that the offended has to learn to live with the consequences not understanding why their loved one had to die as they did.

    Those I know who suffered like this leave forgiveness in God’s hands and get on with their lives as best they know how.

    In my own life I hated a school teacher who made my life a misery and then in my fifties she approached me as she recognised me from my school days and smiling and friendly I was taken on aware by her attitude to me.

    I responded in saying yes I remembered her but I did not strike up a conversation as I would have preferred if she hadn’t recognised me and was glad when she moved on.

    Having been hurt as a child the scars remained and knowing who was at fault in my humanness I did not want to have to have anything to do with the person who caused it.

    When I spoke to my friend whom this teacher had also bullied and said that I had thought about confronting her my friend advised that she would not remember as it was too long ago and think of all pupils she would have had since.

    We met her on numerous occasions since that liaison and my friend was able to converse with her (the bullying had not effected her as it did I) and after a while I began to see her in a different light and I knew in my heart that the hatred was diminishing and I felt so much better in myself which proved that forgiveness was better for me than it was for her because she was oblivious to having offended me.

    I don’t think you can force forgiveness it has to come naturally because of the hurt and pain caused which requires a healing process and since we are all different that can take a lifetime for some while others find it easier.

    Now in my latter years I find it is much better to engage my brain before I engage my tongue and listen to that still small voice guiding me to do the right thing.

    As for God’s forgiveness that takes on a whole new meaning which in my humanness I fail to understand as it is God who is all knowing and not I.

    As a believer then I worship Him with reverence and awe and I am trusting that my sins are forgiven and hopeful for others who for whatever reason do not know God’s mercy.

    In time my enlightenment to my teacher brought forgiveness and peace for me so why shouldn’t others at some stage in their lives find likewise.

    I say I am faithful to God but it seems to me that it is God who is faithful in waiting for me to change and see my need of Him and in my friends case the bullying had no effect and so she responded immediately to the offender while I was hurt and carried that hurt and needed the time and the understanding to heal which my friend didn’t proving how different we are and how different our needs.

    Isn’t that what God sees how different we are and how different our needs?

    God meets our needs and not our wants because He knows what is best for us.

    God gives us what we need at the time we need it because He is our faithful friend and it brings us closer to Him and if I fail to see that then I miss God’s intention.

    In truth God can be angry with me and so He should be as it is righteous anger and brings me to my senses but I must have the wisdom to see it as such otherwise I will blame God when it is my own blindness.

    Blindness is the greatest hindrance in my walk with God as I have pre -conceived beliefs that are not aligned with God’s truth’s and so the closer I am to God the more alien I am to the world.

    I am weak, but Thou art strong;
    Jesus, keep me from all wrong;
    I’ll be satisfied as long
    As I walk, let me walk close to Thee.

    Just a closer walk with Thee,
    Grant it, Jesus, is my plea,
    Daily walking close to Thee,
    Let it be, dear Lord, let it be.

    Through this world of toil and snares,
    If I falter, Lord, who cares?
    Who with me my burden shares?
    None but Thee, dear Lord, none but Thee.

    When my feeble life is o’er,
    Time for me will be no more;
    Guide me gently, safely o’er
    to Thy Kingdom shore, to Thy shore

  140. narrowpathseeker says:

    Steve…AMEN!! I haven’t time to spend here this morning but I am glad I stopped by and read your comment this morning. More Wisdom to start my day.

  141. poohpity says:

    Wow Viv what a good example.

  142. Beloved says:

    Proverbs 27:6 New Living Translation (NLT)
    6 Wounds from a sincere friend
    are better than many kisses from an enemy.

    This verse came to mind while pondering Proverbs 3:5-7NIV again and how submitting everything that comes along to God could benefit in the long run. As we learn in Job there is a great mystery about God we can’t understand. I think that when we forgive and try to forget we open ourselves to that great mystery we call God. It seems to be very important to Him. God wounded Job because they were friends, and He knew Job would come out better for it. Job forgave his “friends” and even prayed for them. Lots to think about and bless God for.

  143. Beloved says:

    ODB Feb 11, 2008 has an article about this.

  144. poohpity says:

    Beloved, isn’t that what Job’s friends accused God of doing, “wounding Job”? Isn’t that the reason God said that Job’s friends did not know God at all and asked Job to pray for them and offer a sacrifice on their behalf? God did not do those things to Job wasn’t it the Devil with intent of making him curse and deny God?

  145. poohpity says:

    Which Job never did deny or curse God because of the troubles, trials and suffering he went through?? But many people that are not following Christ do, blame God for all the bad things but never are grateful for the good that God has done and ask questions like;

    Are we to always automatically forgive or are we only to always forgive when ask of forgiveness?

    Does God automatically forgive us our sins or does He want us to ask Him for forgiveness?

    If we do not confess our sins or don’t recognize our actions as sin are we automatically forgiven?

    The answers to those if one understands what was done at the Cross without us asking for forgiveness but Jesus did it any, didn’t He?

  146. poohpity says:

    Luke 1:speaking of John the Baptist You will tell his people how to find salvation
    through forgiveness of their sins.
    78
    Because of God’s tender mercy,
    the morning light from heaven is about to break upon us,
    79
    to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
    and to guide us to the path of peace.”

  147. jeff1 says:

    Steve, I know what you are saying in your 5.20 am post is true as I have seen people do it all to often and it is useless to talk to them because I tried with my friend and she admitted that she was satisfied she had the truth as it was what she wanted to believe.

    God reveals His truths to those who have ears to hear and hearts to accept and when He does I begin to see God righting the wrongs of the world as I see new mercies every morning and realise God has not forsaken me or the world and I am truly amazed.

    Open the eyes of my heart, Lord
    Open the eyes of my heart
    I want to see You
    I want to see You

    Open the eyes of my heart, Lord
    Open the eyes of my heart,
    I want to see yo
    I want to see you

    To see You high and lifted up
    Shinin’ in the light of Your glory
    Pour out Your power and love
    As we sing holy, holy, holy

    Open the eyes of my heart, Lord
    Open the eyes of my heart
    I want to see You
    I want to see You

    Open the eyes of my heart, Lord
    Open the eyes of my heart
    I want to see You
    I want to see You

    To see You high and lifted up
    Shinin’ in the light of Your glory
    Pour out Your power and love
    As we sing holy, holy, holy

    To see You high and lifted up
    Shinin’ in the light of Your glory
    Pour out Your power and love
    As we sing holy, holy, holy

    To see You high and lifted up
    Shinin’ in the light of Your glory
    Pour out You power and love
    As we sing holy, holy, holy

    Holy, holy, holy
    We cry holy, holy, holy
    You are holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    You are holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

  148. SFDBWV says:

    I am thinking this morning about Mart’s first two paragraphs; Does anyone deserve to be left off the hook and how do we feel about God in His doing so.

    Just like sin has consequences, forgiveness also has its effect.

    A different way to approach this question may be does anyone who feels no remorse for their trespass against another deserve forgiveness for it? And if given how do we who seek justice feel about it?

    Forgiveness is a healing measure, but also a protective act as well.

    Anyone who has ever had someone wrong them in anyway knows how that eats at them. Controls their thinking and is ever present in their thoughts.

    How do I rid myself of such a monkey on my back? Forgive and forget, live and let live, kay sera sera.

    Easy enough.

    But what if the person who offends you is your next door neighbor and you are forced to see them every day and every day endure their offences?

    Do you build a wall around your feelings and become hardened to the continued offence?

    That isn’t forgiveness that is “long suffering” a fruit of the Spirit.

    Do you pray about the matter and “hope” things improve? Certainly as faith is the evidence of things hoped for. Faith also a fruit of the Spirit

    Do you confront your neighbor and try and reach some common understanding and improvement of the matter? Yes as that is the way Christ wants us to behave. Gentleness and temperance also a fruit of the Spirit

    If the offence continues what is the next step? Meekness?

    When all else fails the only thing left is to trust the matter to God and enter into His rest. As He is able to do what you/I cannot.

    How then do I feel about God forgiving those who seem unforgiveable?

    Relieved.

    Steve

  149. jeff1 says:

    When I think of how He came so far from glory
    Came to dwell among the lowly such as I
    To suffer shame and such disgrace
    On Mount Calvary take my place
    Then I ask myself this question
    Who am I?

    Who am I that the King would bleed and die for
    Who am I that He would pray not my will, Thy Lord
    The answer I may never know
    Why He ever loved me so
    But to that old rugged cross He’d go
    For who am I?

    When I’m reminded of His words
    I’ll leave Him never
    If you’ll be true I’ll give to you life forever
    Oh I wonder what I could have done
    To deserve God’s only Son
    To fight my battles until there won
    For who am I?

    Who am I that the King would bleed and die for
    Who am I that He would pray not my will, Thy Lord
    The answer I may never know
    Why He ever loved me so
    But to that old rugged cross He’d go
    For who am I?
    But to that old rugged cross He’d go for, who am I?

  150. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Jeff, for your story of how you came about to forgive your teacher!

    And thanks Steve, your comment this morning was flowing with the grace of God.
    Forgiving is healing for ourselves.

    Leave the wrath to God. Romans 12:19

    What is the wrath of God?

  151. foreverblessed says:

    When Goede pardons, is the person left on these hook?
    Mart asks.

    I have to think about the poem Beloved gave last week.
    The man in a dream, who saw how people had suffered by the way he had treated them.
    Then HE, ‘E, zeker:
    ” Well?”

    Andere he answered: Well, I go to ‘ell. ( Hell)

    Jesus says: NO, hell is for those we do not see.
    But you see.
    You, follow ME

  152. poohpity says:

    One time when I prayed to God for justice for another He gently reminded me if I want justice for them then I would have to have justice for me too. I do not want justice for me, I want God’s mercy. If I ever consider for a moment that I will never be without sin then I have denied reality and called God a liar. I do not want justice for my sin I want forgiveness and grace. The consequences are hard enough but justice would mean separation from God, no salvation or eternal rest. I do not want that for anyone so crying for justice would mean we are all doomed to life without God. So “who am I?” to ask for justice, I would be a person in denial about who I really am! A sinner saved by grace!

  153. foreverblessed says:

    Does anyone deserve to be let off the hook?

    I guess that person is tied to the hook of Christ.

    The hook, being the fisher’s tool to catch a fish. As I onderstand it.

    ” I made you Fishers of man”

    God transforms an enemy of Christ into a friend of Christ.
    Like Saul, who became Paul. Jesus did not punish him for all the crimes Saul had done, Jesus said: You follow Me.
    Paul was on the hook of Christ.

    We were slavese to sin, now we are “slaves” of Christ, slaves, being a very negative word. But we give our lives to Jesus, we say He is our Lord and Master. Slaves Romans 6:16

  154. poohpity says:

    The bottom line is the thinking in the world’s standards that doing wrong or sin comes in degrees while to God any wrong is the same no matter if it is lying or anger or murder or looking at someone with lust to God it is all the same no degrees in His kingdom that is what trips most people up to thinking they are better or worse than others. To God ALL sin and fall short of His glory except Jesus who knew no sin which made Him the perfect sacrifice.

  155. poohpity says:

    That is the baby food or milk of the Gospel and if one does not get that part down how can they understand anything deeper, the meat of the kingdom of God? How can they understand forgiveness, grace or mercy if one does not admit “who am I” to call for justice for someone else and not have God give justice to me as well?

  156. poohpity says:

    A few years ago I shared what happened in my doctor’s office while waiting to be seen by the doctor. The receptionist and I were disguising God and the man next to me said that his wife was a Christ follower but not him. He then asked me could God forgive someone like Hitler? My reply was Yes. He then went into this tirade if God could forgive someone like him, he did not want anything to do with a God like that. My reply was that is what I love about God because of His great forgiveness because of what I have done. The guy then asked, “have you killed as many people as Hitler?” I said no but what I have done is no better than that of Hitler to which he could not understand but a seed was planted that day.

  157. poohpity says:

    You ought to read the biography of the man who wrote “Amazing Grace” similar to Paul’s experience but the only one’s that Jesus ever called out were those who were confident in their own righteousness and looked down on others. Repeatedly Jesus addressed them and said they would not make it to salvation because they never examined their own hearts and laid heavy burdens of the moral law on others but did not follow them themselves. He called them Hypocrites!

    The good things they did was for other people to see and they did not practice what they preached. They loved to be treated with honor, respect and get the attention of other people but their hearts were far from God. Matt 23 and Luke 11:37-54 and Luke 18:9-14

  158. poohpity says:

    Would the Lord forgive them, yes, but they did not feel like they were in need of forgiveness, grace or mercy. That seems to be how those raised in a Christian home feel that they are good and never do anything that bad to be forgiven for, I really do not know how they ever receive salvation or admit their need for a Savior?

  159. Beloved says:

    Romans 8:28-30 English Standard Version (ESV)
    28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

  160. Beloved says:

    Galatians 3:28

  161. jeff1 says:

    Pooh 8.52 am post

    Do you see their hearts Pooh? Do you know if God is working in them?

    When I hated my teacher I believed I was justified because as a child she would throw my work from her table to my desk in front of the classroom and shout and humiliate me and that had a very negative effect on me and I suffered from lack of belief in myself until I was working and seeing that I was capable of doing a job and I wasn’t as useless as she said I was.

    It took 50 years before I would meet my teacher and because of my friend’s liaison’s with her I would have the opportunity to see her in a different light soften my heart towards her so that I no longer felt the way I did and that gave me the relief from my anger.

    It takes time and patience and it seems God is not short of either so I think I should not make assumption’s about others when truthfully unless I am very close to them i.e family or friends then I have no idea what God is doing in their lives and I expect they are doing what I am doing in that where they are not coping with their burden they trust God with it and have relief in knowing He understands.

    God is greater than all our burdens and that is why we can have hope when all around us are despairing showing that we are secure in His word to us.

    None of us know what tomorrow holds and so I have learned to rejoice in today because the past is gone and so the present is all I have as our eternity is in heaven where we shall have new indestructible bodies where sin shall have no domain over us and while in the flesh it is hard to comprehend having such a body but the older I get the tireder I get and time is getting shorter so I am ready for the change and perhaps that is what God wants from us to be ready to surrender all so that He can restore us to our former glory and be with Him in eternity.

    There is coming a day,
    When no heartaches shall come,
    No more clouds in the sky,
    No more tears to dim the eye,
    All is peace for evermore,
    On that happy golden shore,
    What a day, glorious day that will be.

    What a day that will be,
    When my Jesus I shall see,
    And I look upon His face,
    The One who saved me by His
    grace;
    When He takes me by the hand,
    And leads me through the Promised Land,
    What a day, glorious day that will be.

    There’ll be no sorrow there,
    No more burdens to bear,
    No more sickness, no pain,
    No more parting over there;
    And forever I will be,
    With the One who died for me,
    What a day, glorious day that will be.

    What a day that will be,
    When my Jesus I shall see,
    And I look upon His face,
    The One who saved me by His
    grace;
    And He takes me by the hand,
    And leads me through the Promised Land,
    What a day, glorious day that will be.

  162. street says:

    mendicants
    thinking a performance based gospel or works related gospel that is not another gospel. sure we can boast before mankind, but not before God. God’s love is not based on our performance. we were dead wretches, but made alive by Gods choice. given a new Spirit in Christ Jesus. forgiven a debt that is staggering. given a Righteousness, a Righteousness that lets us a stand in the presents of God. Jesus our hope of Righteousness. we were not off the hook. Jesus took the hook for us so we could be free and restored. to be trapped by His love? could you call it a trap or a snare? sure pain suffering and affliction are part and parcel of Christ. paul consider it not worthy to consider them in light of Christ. the pain is greatest when we take our eyes off Jesus. thinking of self will verses love that comes from God. how easily we stumble. lead me the cross that is higher than I.

  163. poohpity says:

    Viv, did you twist something I said again to make it sound as if I was judging someone when I wasn’t? Saying that something “seems” is an observation not a fact.

  164. jeff1 says:

    Pooh, so you just like to jump to conclusions about other Christian’s that are not even substantiated!

  165. Beloved says:

    Ive been thinking about as Mart said, a forgiveness that makes all things new again.

    This brings to mind marriages rescued, sibling rivalry resolved, neighbors at peace and wars ended. Theres always the messy work of mutual humbling to ask for and give forgiveness. Messy but needed. I think these examples from everyday life are but a taste of the final reconciliation when Jesus comes for His own.

    When we all, get to heaven what a day of rejoicing that will be! When we all, see Jesus we’ll sing and shout the victory!

  166. Beloved says:

    One Day
    Song by Matt Redman

    One day You’ll make everything new, Jesus
    One day You will bind every wound
    The former things shall all pass away
    No more tears
    One day You’ll make sense of it all, Jesus
    One day every question resolved
    Every anxious thought left behind
    No more fear
    When we all get to heaven
    What a day of rejoicing that will be
    When we all see Jesus
    We’ll sing and shout the victory
    One day we will see face to face, Jesus
    Is there a greater vision of grace
    And in a moment, we shall be changed
    On that day
    And one day we’ll be free, free indeed, Jesus
    One day all this struggle will cease
    And we will see Your glory revealed
    On that day

  167. foreverblessed says:

    Pat, I wanted to thank you for the analogy of the old man in the field.
    We could cite beautiful bible verses, but if we do not keep them ourselves, the giving is stained.
    Stained!

    Last week a christian friend told me that the Holy Spirit, had made clear to her that she had
    ” Pinned down” -vastzetten- in Dutch, by a remark she had made about her: she can never make right with her husband what had gone wrong. As the husband had died.
    She thaught she had told the truth, but the Spirit rebuked her:
    You pinn her down.

    My friend was deeply impressed by this, she said to me:

    God wants us to be holy!

    No stained hands
    No stained thoughts!

    ( Thoughts like: this and this person will never change.
    Then we pinn down a person in not-changing.
    While when we ask God: touch this heart, You did it with Saul, who became Paul, so You can do it with anybody)

    What I believe God wants us to say: Even though he is like this and this right now, I pray that he will see the err of his ways, and see the great Love of God that will wash his inside and make him clean.
    The wrath of God:
    He turns an enemy around into a friend.
    The evil in the person is annihilated.

  168. foreverblessed says:

    Beloved, I wanted to say something to you:
    The passage of Matthew 18:15-17 confronting fellow christians, this is used in the leading of the Holy Spirit. He urges you to act like this, and gives the strength with it.

    But… when a person is badly abused by a fellow Christian, sexual abuse, aggressive abuse, I doubt if the Holy Spirit will say: go to him alone and show him his fault. As you would put yourself again in a vulnarable position.

    I guess the Holy Spirit will say to you:
    Come to Me, you who are heavily damaged, and I will give you rest. Matt 11:28
    And you stay close to Jesus, and the healing will flow from the Cross, and nurish us, wash us, cleanses us.
    The Work of the Cross is wonderful, and a great miracle.
    Oh how I hope, people of all the earth will finally see that Jesus is there all the while, waiting when He is invited in their hearts.
    The heart must be prepared, a changed heart

    Luke 24:46-49
    The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead the third day,
    and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in His name to all nations.

    So anybody who says that Jesus does not demand a sorry, is right:
    Jesus waits till the sorry is said, sorry: meaning repentance.

    And till that time He stand offside, He withdraws.

    God loves everybody, Agape love, but the person who repents and follows Him, He loves also with a love of a friend, a brother, phileo love.
    A dear close friend.

    ( I wanted to say sorry for all the typos yesterday, now I write in the email and copy and paste it here. I just learned that yesterday, all on the smartphone. I left my computer at my mother’s place, and so type on this small thing.
    May you all have a blessed day today. Here the sun shines, the birds sing, and the leaves of the trees are young and fresh

    And the flowers grow,
    And above all the peace of God dwells in our hearts.
    Just a little but like heaven)

  169. jeff1 says:

    Thinking of how often I am my own worst enemy!

    Sometimes the most difficult person to love is myself!

    Jesus loves by sometimes using the rod because it is what I need as God doesn’t spoil his child from the lack of it and at other times it is a hug or a friend/friends support to reassure me that He doesn’t stay angry for ever while His love is everlasting.

    To know God is to love God for that is what He pours down on me and when I take the blinkers of then I see that God has always been my best friend.

    Everybody needs a little help sometime
    No one stands alone
    Makes no difference if you’re just a child like me
    Or a King upon a throne
    For there are no exceptions
    We all stand in the line
    Everybody needs a friend
    Let me tell you of mine

    Chorus:
    He’s my forever friend
    My leave-me never friend
    From darkest night to rainbow’s end
    He’s my forever friend

    Even when I turn away He cares for me
    His love no one can shake
    Even as I walk away He’s by my side
    With every breath I take
    And sometimes I forget Him
    My halo fails to shine
    Sometimes I’m not His friend
    But He is always mine

    Chorus:
    He’s my forever friend
    My leave-me-never friend
    From darkest night to rainbow’s end
    He’s my forever friend

    If you still don’t know the one I’m talking of
    I think its time you knew
    Long ago and far away upon a cross
    My friend died for you
    So if you’d like to meet Him
    And don’t know what to do
    Ask my friend into your heart
    And He’ll be your friend too

    Chorus:
    He’s my forever friend
    My leave-me-never friend
    From darkest night to rainbow’s end
    He’s my forever friend

    He’s my forever friend

  170. jeff1 says:

    I can never be satisfied until I am re-united with God as that is how God created us to be forever with Him and nothing of this world or the pain and suffering in it can come between us as it is temporary and not of His eternal realm.

    Jesus doesn’t lie to us we are not of this world and why it becomes alien to us as it is only our temporary abode and we should see ourselves as caretakers in it.

    The division in the world is created by us and not by God because we want to take ownership and all nations are guilty of wanting this as it is a human trait and not of God.

    Here in my country what is the war about but who owns Northern Ireland the British or the Irish and the answer is no one has the rights to it as it isn’t God’s intention for us because He knows what that kind of patriotism causes wars and God is a God of peace and why we don’t understand Him because we think nothing like Him and the sooner we realise that then the sooner we see that we are all guilty of trespass and that God is the only rightful judge and then we agree with God that none of us deserve His Salvation and we can get on with living together as equals because in God’s eyes we are flesh and blood and depending completely on Him for our existence and perhaps all God wants to see is us living together without prejudice to prove that we are putting Him first in our lives and not just giving Him lip service.

  171. poohpity says:

    Viv, between you and forever in the last few comments isn’t that substantiation enough. Wanting other’s to see the err of their ways or pointing out other people’s err and neglecting your own. I do wonder how things work which is what I said, if you read the whole sentence again not just the part you want to pick on, which is not jumping to conclusions.

  172. poohpity says:

    Jesus forgive before anyone even recognized they were sinners. Romans 5:8

  173. poohpity says:

    It is not about asking for something that was already done and thought about from the foundation of the world because God knew that “For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.” So like I said I wonder how someone who does not consider themselves to be sinners but live a good life compared to others ever accept Christ or recognize their need for Him. They are so consumed with how others live that they fail to look in the mirror. When people see and admit to their own brokenness usually they will not point out the brokenness in others, when they realize they have been forgiven they do not withhold it from others.

  174. poohpity says:

    Jesus calls us into a relationship with Him, to get rid of the things that bind us to the old way of life into a new way of life. One in which we understand who He is and what he did on the Cross for a new life in Him. If our focus is on sin in ourselves or others on the flesh then it is not on Christ. Take the grave clothes off and be clothed in the righteousness of Christ and your new identity in Him. Stop looking around and look up.

    It would seem those who came in contact with Christ, if one reads the NT, came to Him because of who He is and it was believing in Him that made them right with God. They did not ask for forgiveness, they believed in Him.

    Romans 3: 22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

    23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he makes sinners right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.”

    I does not say because they asked for forgiveness or said they were sorry.

  175. jeff1 says:

    I am stating a fact Pooh and not jumping to a conclusion that the war here was about patriotism and we are not to put anything before God but live at peace with each other and that didn’t happen here and I was part of that and so I am not neglecting to see my guilt but have to live with it.

    My dad was the one who put God before patriotism and I can see that now but I didn’t see it then because I didn’t want to and so I have to live with myself so if I am pointing the finger at others I am also pointing it at myself.

    Ignorance was bliss for me back then but there is retribution because we have suffered for our waywardness as many here know the pain of loosing loved ones or see their wounded relatives.

    God doesn’t stay angry for ever and that’s what I believe while His love is forever and knowing that is what gives me hope for the future as the past is gone and I believe God has forgiven me/us and so living/loving myself is the hardest thing to do today but with God’s help I may find a way as time is a healer for me anyway.

  176. poohpity says:

    There are times for war aren’t there? But to be upset with a people group as a whole and not even knowing them personally but hate not willing to forgive based on an ideology what does that say?

  177. poohpity says:

    Do you feel what they have done is worse than the things you have done?

  178. Beloved says:

    Matthew 16:24-27 whether we get an apology or not.

  179. Beloved says:

    There’s a lot in here about humility and forgiveness Job 42:7-17

  180. jeff1 says:

    I think wars are man driven and God cleans up the mess but that is just my thinking and what do I know.

    Anything I did was in my head so who suffered only myself and so you could say my madness is of my own doing.

    I don’t hate them anymore as time as made a difference to how I see them as the truth is that I lived in fear of them because of my closeness to the military and they no longer have that hold on me because I am trusting God and not letting them rob me of my joy anymore.

    They were in my head then as I was having to check my car in the morning before I went to work so it was difficult to get them out of it but not anymore as God takes first place now.

    It has taken me a life time to get my priorities right and though I know very little about anything it was my dad who taught me that God is good and that’s really all that matters because I can’t stop people being people so staying focused on Him gives me the peace I need to live my life free of fear of others.

  181. Beloved says:

    Is 59:19 So shall they fear The name of the Lord from the west, And His glory from the rising of the sun; When the enemy comes in like a flood, The Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him. NKJV

    Viv God has purpose in our wars, sufferings etc. To get our focus on Him, as you say and know well. Keep up the encouragement to us all as you grow in His most holy grace. Blessings to all posters today.

  182. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Beloved
    And what a great passage you give, I read some more:
    Isaiah 59
    v19 So they shall fear the name of the Lord from the west,

    and his glory from the rising of the sun;

    for he will come like a rushing stream,

    which the wind of the Lord drives.

    20 “And a Redeemer will come to Zion,

    to those in Jacob who turn from transgression,” declares the Lord.

    21 “And as for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord: “My Spirit that is upon you, aand my words that I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your offspring, or out of the mouth of your children’s offspring,” says the Lord, “from this time forth and forevermore.”

  183. street says:

    the opposite of forgiveness

    47 Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees convened a council, and were saying, “What are we doing? For this man is performing many signs. 48 If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”

    Mark 12:7
    But those vine-growers said to one another, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours!’

  184. Beloved says:

    To forgive is a Grace of God

    John 15:5 New International Version (NIV)
    5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

  185. foreverblessed says:

    So true, Beloved.
    In fact, we can do nothing without HIM,
    nothing that is of eternal value.

    I started back on top, what Mart wrote.
    He gave Luke 17:1-4
    And saying:
    ” there is a kind of forgiveness that lovingly requires/and responds to a change of heart.”

    So, respond to …
    a change of heart….

    But before such a change is seen, Jesus says:
    Rebuke him

    Elliot ( see below) writes: rebuke not condemn.
    And Jesus is warning us: Beware
    As of saying, watch your heart not to condemn
    But… rebuke in a gentle spirit.
    Aiming at restoration!

    Elliott’s commentary
    “(3) Take heed to yourselves.—The position of the words is remarkable, and they have nothing corresponding to them in the parallel passage in Matthew 18:21, where see Note. It is as though our Lord saw in the disciples the tendency to sit in judgment on the sins of others, on such sins especially as He had just condemned, and checked it by the words “take heed to yourselves.” They were in danger of faults hardly less fatal to the spiritual life than selfish luxury, and one of those faults was the temper of hard and unforgiving judgment. When they saw a conspicuous instance of worldliness or other evil, they did as we so often do—they condemned, but did not “rebuke.” In practice, as He taught them by example as by precept, open friendly reproof, aiming at restoration, is the truest path to the forgiveness with which, in the careless estimate of most men, it seems to be incompatible. “

  186. foreverblessed says:

    I also went back to what Pat wrote, April 30, 7.25 pm
    The study on forgiveness.
    Repent
    Confess

    And 70×7 forgive on one day, if someone comes to you and says sorry.
    That has never happened to me, 70×7 a day!!!
    I would take 3 times a day, and after that I would doubt if there was really a change of heart.
    Jesus says: beware: watch your own heart!

    It is different when a person does come to you and say: I repent.

    But then Matthew 18:15-17 comes in.

    But everything done while we hold on to Jesus, and if our hearts lose the calmness, we go I to His shade, under His protection, till our hearts are quieter.

  187. foreverblessed says:

    Quieted!
    ( not quieter)
    Till our hearts are quieted!

    The call of Jesus:
    Come to Me
    Matthew 11:28

    We cannot do anything without Him: the repenting, the confessing, the forgiving, the rebuking..

  188. jeff1 says:

    In Christ alone my hope is found
    He is my light, my strength, my song
    This Cornerstone, this solid ground
    Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
    What heights of love, what depths of peace
    When fears are stilled, when strivings cease
    My comforter, my All in All
    Here in the love of Christ I stand

    In Christ alone, who took on flesh
    Fullness of God in helpless babe
    The gift of love and righteousness
    Scorned by the ones He came to save
    ‘Til on that cross as Jesus died
    The wrath of God was satisfied
    For every sin on Him was laid
    Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

    There in the ground His body lay
    Light of the world by darkness slain
    Then bursting forth in glorious Day
    Up from the grave He rose again
    And as He stands in victory
    Sin’s curse has lost it’s grip on me
    For I am His and He is mine
    Bought with the precious blood of Christ

    No guilt in life, no fear in death
    This is the power of Christ in me
    From life’s first cry to final breath
    Jesus commands my destiny
    No power of hell, no scheme of man
    Can ever pluck me from His hand
    Till He returns or all me home
    Here in the power of Christ I’ll stand

    I will stand
    I will stand, all other ground is sinking sand
    All other ground, all other ground
    is sinking sand, is sinking sand
    So I’ll stand

  189. poohpity says:

    I so agree with Elliot when he says; ” It is as though our Lord saw in the disciples the tendency to sit in judgment on the sins of others, on such sins especially as He had just condemned, and checked it by the words “take heed to yourselves.” They were in danger of faults hardly less fatal to the spiritual life than selfish luxury, and one of those faults was the temper of hard and unforgiving judgment.”

    There is a big difference in the shortcomings of a person and them sinning against me. So the direction to pay attention to yourself(take heed to yourself) means to look at the sins in my life first and foremost before I point a finger at someone else and if one doesn’t they are in jeopardy of sitting in hard and unforgiving judgement which is exactly what Jesus taught about in Matt 7:1-5 NLT.

    “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. 2 For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged.

    3 “And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye when you have a log in your own? 4 How can you think of saying to your friend, ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

    We are given the lists of sins against others; not obeying our parents, lying, stealing, wanting what someone else has, looking at someone with lust in our heart, anger that turns to hate, slandering someone by telling things that are not true, etc. those are sins which are very different than looking at the shortcomings or faults in others that has more to do with the person who sees them and their perspective which is where the judgement comes in.

  190. poohpity says:

    Paul describes it this way; Romans 2: You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things. 2 And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. 3 Since you judge others for doing these things, why do you think you can avoid God’s judgment when you do the same things? 4 Don’t you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can’t you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?”

    Those things that Paul was talking about came before in Romans 1: 28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.”

    So the next time one sees a shortcoming or fault in someone else maybe another glance in the mirror to see what God says is sin then to realize how great are His mercies and grace towards the person in the mirror and then maybe start reflecting that to others. Get off the throne and let God be the righteous judge as we all kneel at the foot of the Cross, that is something we can all do together. People only look at the flaws in others so they can feel better about themselves.

  191. poohpity says:

    The worldly or fleshly person tends to rate sin on a scale of 1 to 10 in severity but to God ALL sin is a 10

    James 2: Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law.

    10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. 11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.

    12 So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free. 13 There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you.

  192. poohpity says:

    So the next time one puts conditions on forgiveness is that how you want God or others to treat you? (Luke 6:31; Matt 7:12 NLT) We can find scripture to justify wanting people to repent which means turning to God or for them to confess the wrongs they have done to us but never forget the wrongs we have done to others then maybe one will not be so demanding of others.

  193. poohpity says:

    Isn’t it amazing just like the people who have gone without food are more generous to share than those who have never gone without food. Forgiveness seems to be the same, those who have been forgiven a lot tend to be more free and generous with forgiveness than those who think they have not done that much wrong to be forgiven for?

  194. Beloved says:

    John Piper

    How to Ask Forgiveness

    He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. (1 John 1:9)

    I recall hearing one of my professors in seminary say that one of the best tests of a person’s theology was the effect it has on one’s prayers.

    This struck me as true because of what was happening in my own life. Noël and I had just been married and we were making it our practice to pray together each evening. I noticed that during the biblical courses which were shaping my theology most profoundly, my prayers were changing dramatically.

    Probably the most significant change in those days was that I was learning to make my case before God on the ground of his glory. Beginning with “Hallowed be Thy name,” and ending with “In Jesus’ name” meant that the glory of God’s name was the goal and the ground of everything I prayed.

    And what a strength came into my life when I learned that praying for forgiveness should be based not only on an appeal to God’s mercy, but also on an appeal to his justice in crediting the worth of his Son’s obedience. “God is faithful and just and will forgive your sins” (1 John 1:9).

    In the New Testament, the basis of all forgiveness of sins is revealed more clearly than it was in the Old Testament, but the basis in God’s commitment to his name does not change.

    Paul teaches that the death of Christ demonstrated the righteousness of God in passing over sins and vindicated God’s justice in justifying the ungodly who bank on Jesus and not themselves (Romans 3:25–26).

    In other words, Christ died once for all to clear the name of God in what looks like a gross miscarriage of justice — the acquittal of sinners simply for Jesus’ sake. But Jesus died in such a way that forgiveness “for Jesus’ sake” is the same as forgiveness “for the sake of God’s name.”

  195. Beloved says:

    Thinking about how I love to be blessed Matthew 5:6 was brought to mind 6“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. Who is my righteous but Jesus!

  196. jeff1 says:

    God of love – Forgive! Forgive!
    Teach us how to truly live,
    Ask us not our race or creed,
    Just take us in our hour of need,
    And let us know You love us, too,
    And that we are a part of You . . .
    And someday may man realize
    That all the earth, the seas and skies
    Belong to God who made us all,
    The rich, the poor, the great, the small,
    And in the Father’s Holy Sight
    No man is yellow, black or white,
    And peace on earth cannot be found
    Until we meet on common ground
    And every man becomes a brother
    Who worships God and loves each other.

  197. phpatato says:

    I have been away for a few days and have just nicely had a few minutes to speed read through the comments since I’ve been gone.

    Pooh, in regards to your apology given on May 1, 2018 at 7:15 am….your apology is accepted. I’m sorry for the delay but between me being away and then receiving news on Wed that a close family friend lost his daughter tragically in a car accident, I haven’t been at my computer till now.

  198. poohpity says:

    I noticed Steve has not written in a few days praying all is well.

  199. poohpity says:

    Here is an example of Jesus forgiving sins without someone admitting to sin or saying sorry for them.

    Luke 5: 18 Some men came carrying a paralyzed man on a mat and tried to take him into the house to lay him before Jesus. 19 When they could not find a way to do this because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and lowered him on his mat through the tiles into the middle of the crowd, right in front of Jesus. 20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.” 21 The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” 22 Jesus knew what they were thinking and asked, “Why are you thinking these things in your hearts? 23 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 24 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 25 Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God. 26 Everyone was amazed and gave praise to God. They were filled with awe and said, “We have seen remarkable things today.”

  200. Beloved says:

    Pat my condolences and prayers for you and your friends.

  201. narrowpathseeker says:

    Pat, I am so sorry for the tragic loss of your friend’s daughter. I will include that in prayer. I hope all else is well with you. XXXOOO Pearl

  202. jeff1 says:

    Forgive them, O my Father,
    They know not what they do.
    The Saviour spoke in anguish,
    As sharp iron nails went through.
    No word of anger spoke He
    To them that shed His blood,
    But prayer and tenderest pity
    Large as the love of God.

    For me was that compassion,
    For me that tender care;
    I need His wide forgiveness
    As much as any there.
    It was my pride and hardness
    That hung Him on the tree;
    Those cruel nails, O Saviour,
    Were driven in by me.

    And often I have slighted
    Thy gentle voice that said:
    Forgive me too, Lord Jesus,
    I knew not what I did.
    O depth of sweet compassion!
    O love divine and true!
    Save Thou the souls that slight Thee,
    And know not what they do.

  203. SFDBWV says:

    Pat’s sad news is a reminder of the realities of life here in this world.

    I am always reminded that the very first recorded death is that of someone’s child.

    The only recorded comfort for Eve being that of the naming of Seth. But the truth is no one can ever be replaced and their death brings a sadness that lasts for the remainder of a parent’s life.

    All of the pondering of Biblical questions pale in comparison to the emotions felt when death shows up.

    My most profound heartfelt condolences to Pat’s friend and prayers for all concerned.

    Steve

  204. Beloved says:

    Forgive?

    James 5:16
    New Living Translation

    Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results.

  205. Beloved says:

    1 John 3 New King James Version (NKJV)
    3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God![a] Therefore the world does not know us,[b] because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

  206. Beloved says:

    Wonderful Words of Life
    Phillip P Bliss

    Sing them over again to me,
    Wonderful words of life,
    Let me more of their beauty see,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Words of life and beauty
    Teach me faith and duty.

    Refrain:
    Beautiful words, wonderful words,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Beautiful words, wonderful words,
    Wonderful words of life.

    Christ, the blessed One, gives to all
    Wonderful words of life;
    Sinner, list to the loving call,
    Wonderful words of life;
    All so freely given,
    Wooing us to heaven.
    Sweetly echo the Gospel call,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Offer pardon and peace to all,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Jesus, only Savior,
    Sanctify us forever.

    Beautiful words, wonderful words,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Beautiful words, wonderful words,
    Wonderful words of life.

  207. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you for those beautiful words!

    My condolences Pat!

    Steve talked about Eve ( and Adam ) missing Abel.

    Cain asked God to protect him from revenge! ( or against revenge)
    Genesis 4:9-16
    I had just read that last week studying Luke 17:4
    If he comes back to you 7 times a day, and says, I repent, forgive him.
    Bible commentaries link this verse to another situation:
    Matthew 18:22 Jesus saying how many times we should forgive when a brother sins against us:
    “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times”.

    Meaning to say that we reverse everything the heathen do:
    Instead of avenging seventy-seven times, forgiving seventy- seven times.

    Genesis 4:23-24
    … if Cain is avenged sevenfold times, then Lamech seventy-seven times

    Jesus turns everything upside down, and so we have to learn that from Him.

  208. foreverblessed says:

    Seventy-seven times
    Not seventy times seven
    I read the explanation why that is so, and I don’t understand it.

    Then came to me: like 24/7 24 hours 7 days a week.
    70 times a day 7 days a week.

    We start with 6 days work for ourselves, and the 7th day for God.
    We start 6 days grudging, and 1 day forgiving.
    And God sanctifies us, bit by bit.
    Making us stronger in Christ, giving us strength for the journey:
    5 days grudging, 2 days forgiving
    To 24/7
    Or seventy-seven times

  209. jeff1 says:

    At our Holy Communion Service our Rector spoke of Jesus accepting each one of us irrespective of our faults and how he described that friendship is that when you have a friend you do not necessary like or agree with everything about that person but their friendship is important to you so you accept them for who they are.

    Jesus loves us in the same way in that He accepts us for who we are and not what we are. When I realise this I then want to be a better friend to Jesus and do things to please Him so that our friendship becomes closer and I know that from my own personal relationship with my friends that has to be worked on and there are times when I fail to be a good friend and disappoint others and so there will be times when I disappoint Jesus.

    He also said that it is easier for a sinner to see how much he is forgiven. Paul is an example of that as He was an enemy of God’s from the beginning whereas Peter who was closer to Jesus was more blinded but different as they were it didn’t stop Jesus from loving them and that says more about Jesus than it does them and why we can trust Him today despite our differences.

    Here, O my Lord, I see Thee face to face;
    here would we touch and handle things unseen;
    here grasp with firmer hand eternal grace
    and all my weariness upon Thee lean.

    Here would I feed upon the bread of God,
    here drink with Thee the royal wine of heav’n;
    here would we lay aside each earthly load,
    here taste afresh the calm of sin forgiv’n.

    This is the hour of banquet and of song;
    this is the heav’nly table spread for me;
    here let me feast, and feasting, still prolong
    the brief, bright hour of fellowship with Thee.

    Too soon we rise, the symbols disappear;
    the feast, though not the love, is past and done;
    gone are the bread and wine, but Thou art here,
    nearer than ever, still my Shield and Sun.

    Feast after feast thus comes, and passes by;
    yet passing, points to the glad feast above;
    giving sweet foretaste of the festal joy,
    the Lamb’s great bridal feast of bliss and love.

  210. Beloved says:

    Does anyone deserve to be let off the hook of a wrong done? After ruining the lives of others, what right does someone have to ask for mercy?

    Yesterday God revealed to me that I needed to examine my expectations of others because everyone is prone to sinning. Doesn’t matter their position in the church, letters behind their name or biblical knowledge. I think it’s James who said teachers will be judged more harshly so be sure it’s your calling. Seems to me those in leadership, teachers etc need as much grace as I want for myself. And in the end are just as much a sinner as the custodian is. Really put things in perspective for me. Isn’t it kind of funny how you can know scripture but until the Spirit quickens it in the heart it’s just words on paper. Mercy came through the Spirit, not words in the Torah or teaching of the rabbis, (except when Rabbi Jesus taught).
    Not one of us deserves mercy. It’s free!

  211. Beloved says:

    Why does God allow evil? Joseph said: Genesis 50:20
    20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people[a] should be kept alive, as they are today.

    Sometimes God’s purposes take a lifetime to see.

  212. poohpity says:

    It would seem if one goes a little further in the passage about forgiving seventy-seven times the emphasis seems to be unlimited forgiveness as the parable of unforgiving servant represents. After the king forgave the servant’s great debt he left his presence then decided to hold those who owed him a debt accountable and went to collect it. Then the king found out and brought back the servant before him saying I forgave you the big debt you owed me yet you went to collect the small debt that was owed you;

    “32 Then the king called in the man he had forgiven and said, ‘You evil servant! I forgave you that tremendous debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Shouldn’t you have mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had mercy on you?’ 34 Then the angry king sent the man to prison to be tortured until he had paid his entire debt.

    35 “That’s what my heavenly Father will do to you if you refuse to forgive your brothers and sisters from your heart.”

    So the bottom line would be to not realize all that God has forgiven me for and rather than show them the mercy I have received I want them to pay for their sins against me. Questioning Jesus about how many times we should forgive others shows a complete failure to understand the condition of our own hearts and all that God has forgiven us for; well unless one thinks they have not done anything that bad however pride which keeps us from a lot of things concerning God, thinking more/less of ourselves than we ought, are the type that has not considered all that God actually has forgiven them. When one does not realize that then they are less likely to “forgive as the Lord has forgiven you”.

  213. poohpity says:

    What we receive from God blesses us without measure to give it away.

  214. Beloved says:

    Pooh you are so right!

    I was so blessed looking at Barenscourt online Viv, what a wonderful place to visit. English cottage has always been my decorating style and though it’s not a cottage it reminded me of why I’ve always loved but never able to visit England (my grandmother was English Irish Scotch) or Ireland (my dad’s family). What a rich heritage I have been blessed with! When I was growing up America was referred to as a melting pot due to the various nationalities and creeds. I feel blessed to live here.

    Steve I watched a show on CNN last night about Appalachia. It highlighted the blessings of faith in God as the great sustai ner through difficult living conditions. I though of you and your great faith you share with us here, what a blessing!

  215. Beloved says:

    Also thinking of how I’ve been blessed by streets ministry here. God is faithful, even to old age. Hope you are doing well, street.

  216. street says:

    Does anyone deserve to be let off the hook of a wrong done? After ruining the lives of others, what right does someone have to ask for mercy?

    thinking of God sending satan to the garden so long ago. how our minds have been lead to believe a lie and doubt the goodness of God. we chose a condition of death in order to be like God. deceived. yet God choose death in order to redeem us from horrific future, to make us alive! revealing a love that was not apparent but all around. to this day my greatest sin is doubting the goodness and kindness of God that is in Christ Jesus. i could also add patience faithfulness gentleness and self control to the list. Jesus, LORD of “all”.

    thinking of saul asking, ” who are you LORD?”

  217. foreverblessed says:

    Today I read an extraordinary story in my newspaper.
    A painter, portret painter, who after an car-accident 6 years ago, can’t do very much anymore, has to take lots of rest. He stays on his farm, and started an owl family, church-owl, they are called here, the type that make their homes in church towers.
    He paints them, studies them. He says he studies them at least three hours a day. (What biologist has done that, he asked).
    They stay together as a family their whole life. They are very social, helping the weaker members. He had observed that one bird had been attacked by a buzzard, a bird of prey, and lay screaming on the ground. Her sister came and lovingly pushed her head to her body, till the bird stopped screaming!
    And another bird had gone crazy, because of old year’s Eve fire-crackers, she still lives because the other birds feed her: taking care of the weaker members!

    I thought this an amazing story, and wanted to share it with you.

    ( About old year’s Eve fire-crackers: my younger brother, when he was a boy, had a crow that was tame. The crow would sit on his shoulder, and he cycled through the village on old year’s Eve. Then a fire-cracker went of right next to them, and the crow got a shock from that terrible sudden noise, from which he never recovered. The crow was scary and behaved strange for the rest of his life. Although my brother still took care of him.
    The owl that had gone crazy is lucky to have family members that take care of her.
    On a side note: there are lots of organisations that want to forbid the private fireworks and -crackers. For years now, but no success yet. Also eye-surgeons, because every year 7 to 10 people lose an eye. S

  218. foreverblessed says:

    Good evening Street, it is past 8 now here. I was writing online when you posted.
    Indeed, the lies that we believe. And have believed since the garden. The lies we still have to throw out of our minds, and say to ourselves:
    God is good, all the time
    All the time, God is good

  219. jeff1 says:

    Having read Street’s post on the last post this hymn comes to mind.

    Will your anchor hold in the storms of life,
    When the clouds unfold their wings of strife?
    When the strong tides lift, and the cables strain,
    Will your anchor drift or firm remain?

    We have anchor that keeps the soul
    Steadfast and sure while the billows roll,
    Fastened to the Rock which cannot move.
    Grounded firm and deep in the Saviour’s love.

    It is safely moored, ’twill the storm withstand,
    For ’tis well secured by the Saviour’s hand;
    And the cables passed from His heart to mine,
    Can defy the blast, through strength divine.

    It will firmly hold in the straits of fear,
    When the breakers have told the reef is near;
    Through the tempest rave and the wild winds blow,
    Not an angry wave shall our bark o’erflow.

    It will surely hold in the floods of death,
    When the waters cold chill our latest breath;
    On the rising tide it can never fail,
    While our hopes abide within the veil.

    We have an anchor that keeps the soul
    Steadfast and sure while the billows roll,
    Fastened to the Rock which cannot move,
    Grounded firm and deep in the Saviour’s love.

  220. jeff1 says:

    Beloved, just reading what you said about Baronscourt Estate and I can remember after I had my breakdown my dad used to drive me out to the surrounding countryside which is also beautiful and take me for walks and talk me through my head problems.

    Memories like this keep me going today when I am feeling up against life as I am at the moment as my son seems to be having similar head problems to my own and being a man is finding it difficult to talk about it.

    Guess what! Beloved, I too love the English cottages and here I watch programmes that depict the English countryside and the beauty and peace that it offers but there is one programme called Midsummer Murders which also tells stories of the hidden life’s of the resident’s which leads to the murders and the solving of them.

    So much similarity in our lives and yet we are all on such different journey’s but our destination is secure in Christ.

    This song depicts those similarities in life and how we can not know another’s pain and why God is God of us all.

    As I went out walking, on a fine summers day.
    Through the hills and the valleys, I soon lost my way.
    ’till I came to an old man, kneeling down by a stream.
    Gazing into the water like he was lost in a dream.
    In his hand was a picture, he clung to for life.
    His eyes filled with tears, as he tried not to cry.
    He looked to the heaven’s and started to pray.
    In the quiet country silence, I could hear the man say.
    Life is a river, I’ll go with the flow.
    And where it will lead me the Lord only knows.
    I’ll miss you sweetheart, your kindness and love.
    But I know one day, we’ll sail away on God’s ocean above.
    He said now young man you’re a stranger to me.
    Could I bother you kindly, for your company.
    Today I am thinking, of a long time ago.
    And I need to tell someone, of a girl I loved so.
    It’s forty-two years today, since Rose took my hand.
    And proudly I lived life, her husband her man.
    ‘Till only last week son, God took her away.
    As I kissed her softly, these words she did say.
    Life is a river, I’ll go with the flow
    And where it will take me, the Lord only knows
    I miss you sweetheart, your kindness and love.
    But I know one day, we’ll sail away on God’s ocean above.
    And with that the old man, sent me on my way
    And sat by the river I’ll kneel for the day
    I look at the river starting out on its life.
    It’s were I feel close to, my beautiful wife.

  221. SFDBWV says:

    Ok I am going to retell a story I heard told about three years ago concerning my friend Beverly and her husband Larry.

    Larry was dying of cancer on hospice and bed ridden. My next door neighbor Karen who is Beverly’s sister had went down to Virginia where Beverly and Larry lived along with Karen’s daughter to support and stay with Beverly during the last few weeks of Larry’s life.

    It was during this time that Larry awoke from what he said was a visit with Jesus. He said he found himself in heaven with Jesus and experienced the beauty and peace that only heaven and being in the presence of God can bring, and wanted never to return to this world and his life here.

    However Jesus said to him he couldn’t stay as he had to return because there was un- forgiveness in his heart and he needed to heal it.

    Upon awaking from his *dream* he knew who it was that he needed to reconcile himself with and ask Beverly to call this fellow he had been friends with long ago that ended badly.

    Larry talked with this man for over an hour on the phone and amazing at it may seem to some came from Florida the very next day to visit with and rekindle the friendship they once enjoyed and forgave each other for the trouble they had shared.

    Only days later Beverly and Karen and Lynn (Karen’s daughter) all laid together with Larry as he died, free of un-forgiveness and at peace with himself and with God.

    Make of this story as you want, but every word of it is true as told to me by Beverly and Karen.

    Forgiveness it seems is a serious matter to Christ and one we need to take very serious as well.

    49 degrees as the fog is finally lifting.

    Steve

  222. Beloved says:

    Going with the flow! I like that, reminds me of the river of God. Just trust Him and go with it. Very encouraging, thanks Viv.

    Steve I hadn’t heard that story, but thinking how important our forgiveness is to others, it’s a lot like knowing God forgives us for far greater sins than any one person could do to us. Forgiveness is very very healing, to me and those I have sinned against. Thinking of Jesus anguish as HE knew he was about to carry the sins of mankind to a cross and know separation from His Father. Father forgive them, why have you forsaken me? It didn’t make sense. Forgiving never makes “sense”.

  223. Beloved says:

    Street when I read your sin list I thought, is that all you’ve got? Mine is much longer and I’m older than you I’m guessing so if I were Catholic I’d be headed to purgatory for sure, or maybe this life IS purgatory? Oh well, I’ll get there ( heaven) eventually. What a day of rejoicing that will be!!

  224. Beloved says:

    Viv I’ll be praying for your son.

  225. jeff1 says:

    I wish he had faith, Beloved, but I know prayer works as it did before when my friend prayed for him so I hope I have enough faith for us both.

  226. foreverblessed says:

    Jeff, I pray for your son too!!!

    Steve, thank you very much for sharing that story.
    Thanks!!!

  227. foreverblessed says:

    About forgiveness…
    Having been thinking about this subject
    And having studied what Jesus has tought us about forgiveness…
    I want to give my set of thoughts so far.
    They are my opinion, and nobody has to think as I do:

    First thing, I always forgive in the heart. I believe Jesus tells me that, He has forgiven me so much. He cannot forgive me, when I do not forgive my ‘neighbor’, fellow man.

    Secondly, anything I do or think, should be in connection to Jesus, He gives me anything I need, and I pass it on to others:
    Love, mercy, forgiveness.
    ( I can do nothing without Him)

    Thirdly Jesus gave us the commission to preach repentance and forgiveness of sins in His Name Luke 24:46-47
    Forgiveness is a big thing.

    Fourthly only God can look in another heart, we cannot. He sees from afar that a person has come to his senses, and has seen the err of his ways, and is deeply sorry. For God that is enough. That is repentance. Now that person can receive forgiveness in the Name of Jesus, through faith.
    But what about the hurt he has done to others? Does he get of the hook, or…. will the Holy Spirit tell him: go and get reconciled to your fellow man?

    Fifthly, there is a difference in how I treat a brother, as to an enemy. Bottom line is: Love is the motive.
    A brother I can confront when he mistreats me
    An enemy I show him my other cheek when he mistreats me.

    A brother, out of love, so he may learn from it. ( If he listens, you have won your brother)
    Confront, or the Bible word is: rebuke. Rebuke is aimed at restoration.

    An enemy is won to the Kingdom, by love. By showing the other cheek.

    I shall give a story of how the enemy is won, a story of a cathlic priest.

  228. foreverblessed says:

    The cathlic priest started to preach against the maffia, somewhat 20 years ago, somewhere in Italy.
    He knew he walked on risky ground, but he followed Jesus in faith.
    He gave his parisheners the courage to withstand the intimidation of the maffia, and hope in God.
    He knew, one day the maffia would send a killer.
    And sure enough, one day he left his house, and on the street he faced a man with a gun, who shot him.

    He died.

    End of story? Just a foolish priest? Should he not have bought a gun, and kill the murderer before he would be killed?

    Here is a testimony of a man who follows Jesus, who has lost his life in this world.

    If we follow Jesus, it is not a free right, we give up the right of our own life, and give it in the hands of Jesus. He is our Master.

    Now comes the beautiful ending of the story:
    The killer sees the face of the priest, at night, in his dreams, a face full of love, of peace, looking at him….
    And he begins to feel need for a change of heart:
    The man repents!!!

    And that because of the loving looks of a priest who faces his killer.
    What a grace he had been given by God.

    The evil in the killer is killed, that is the revenge of God!
    The enemy is turned into a friend!

    To me, that is showing the enemy the other cheek.

  229. foreverblessed says:

    And I have to keep thinking about the man Steve talked about!
    The forgiveness needed before he could die!

    The words of Jesus:
    ” If you remember somebody has something against you, first go and be reconciled to your brother, and then return to the altar”
    Matthew 5:23-24

  230. foreverblessed says:

    One more thought:
    ( Maybe Mart will change the theme tomorrow, and I wanted to share this for over a week now)

    Do people get of the hook…

    On BBC website there is now a series on myths about prison.
    Maybe Chris is still reading, he might be interested.

    /future/columns/criminal-myths

    This week there is an article:
    How prison changes people, mainly about people who are psychiatric, for whom normal prison is a disaster.

    Last week there was an article about the Dutch prison system.

    ” Why the dutch treat their prisoners differently”

    To me that was a revelation, I did not know they worked like that. But they want to make a diferentiation between people who are in their full minds knowing what they are doing and those that have mental issues.
    (Although even non mental criminals are being deceived by the adversary)
    People with mental issues do not get better in prison. They should be guarded save somewhere else. There is a big psychiatric system to support these people, in our country, better then for non- criminal patients. So the best place for them would be there. But if the suspect does not cooperate, and does not want to have a label of mental illness, he will end in the normal prison, and not come out better.

    God is always looking for restoration. There is no end to His Hope.
    But the treatment for each of us is different.
    His love is unconditional. But His treatment to us depends on our condition. That means: conditional.
    But always out of love, aimed at restoring us to Himself, in the Name of Jesus

  231. Beloved says:

    LOL at myself.
    I don’t have time to read the posts but when I opened this site and saw Marts picture alongside Forgive? I immediately thought of Mart saying, I’m not letting you out of this room until you forgive one another!!! Wouldn’t this be a hellish place? As God’s children does He expect less though? Not really that funny after all.

  232. foreverblessed says:

    Happy Ascention Day.
    The Day Jesus Ascended to heaven, 10 days before Pentecost.
    It is a Holiday in our country, everybody is free, and also tomorrow. So a long weekend to enjoy!

    Worship the great I am

    Glory to the Lord Most High
    King of Power and Light
    Angels sing as Heaven bows
    Earth resounds their song
    [x2]

    Worthy worthy, Jesus is worthy
    Praise to the Son of Man
    Glory and Honor crown You forever
    Worship the Great I Am
    Alleluia, Alleluia

    Glory to the Prince of Life
    Sacred Son of God
    Risen to glory, vowed His returning
    Christ shall come again

    Worthy worthy, Jesus is worthy
    Praise to the Son of Man
    Those who adore You bow down before You
    Worship the Great I Am

    Glory to the promised One
    Holy Spirit of God
    Pour out upon us power from heaven
    Fill us with Your love

    Worthy worthy, Jesus is worthy
    Praise to the Son of Man
    Glory and Honor crown You forever
    Worship the Great I Am

    Worthy worthy, Jesus is worthy
    Praise to the Son of Man
    Those who adore You bow down before You
    Worship the Great I Am

    (Lyrics and music Walker Beach)

  233. Beloved says:

    Father in Heaven, Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. In your name, Amen

  234. Beloved says:

    John 17:20-23 English Standard Version (ESV)
    20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

  235. Beloved says:

    Psalm23
    He restores my soul.
    He leads me in paths of righteousness[b]
    for his name’s sake.

    4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,[c]
    I will fear no evil,
    for you are with me;
    your rod and your staff,
    they comfort me.

    5 You prepare a table before me
    in the presence of my enemies;
    you anoint my head with oil;
    my cup overflows.

  236. Beloved says:

    Thinking how difficult it can be to face our enemies and offer/seek forgiveness. Yet for Gods/righteousness sake we are called to do just that. Obedience is as oil pouring down our heads. God is good. All. The. Time.

  237. street says:

    If God really does forgive such people—will we ever be able to forgive him? Or if God hasn’t done anything wrong— what are we missing?

    a relationship with God? thinking of two things, the two sons, and when God said i will remember their sin no more. we suffer from ptsd. thinking of peter encouraging us to bear up under bad circumstance and bad memories. thinking of the generosity of the Father and Son. to mature and become like Him even sharing in difficult times. Blessed are those who morn they will be comforted. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness ….Blessed are the peace makers and the pure in heart.

  238. street says:

    forgiven?
    thinking about the high places in israel that were never removed. God’s patients and mercy over the years. then the rejection and death of his Son.

    was reading about peter and the animals he was suppose to eat and told the LORD no because they were unclean. sounds like a high place tell God no again. yet when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the gentiles another high place bit the dust and God was still in control. God is so patient with us.

  239. street says:

    unforgiven
    looking at the problem from the other side. painful and difficult, indeed. the anger of divorce. the sorrow of an abortion. the bitterness of betrayal. all stemming from the refusal to love. we are told love suffers long. we also know from a human perspective grace and mercy do come to an end. capital punishment or even locked up and the key thrown away. God’s grace and mercy do end for a sinful body, but not for the soul that is in “Christ Jesus”, in “love.” precious is the dead of the saints in the sight of God we are told. love holds them secure because true love holds them. true love is from God the source of all love. He is not ashamed to call them Sons because Jesus Who knew no sin became sin for us that we should not longer live in it. love does suffer long/ children of God. when Jesus says, “away from Me, I never knew you.” could it be they never loved or forgave? Father put an end to darkness. consuming fire comes to mind.

  240. street says:

    Maybe Jesus knew something we don’t yet understand when he said from his cross, “Father forgive them, they don’t know what they are doing.” Maybe he also knew what only our Father knows— about a forgiveness (lovingly conditional and unconditional) that uses time and eternity—to right the wrongs of the ages— and make all things new again.

  241. street says:

    to right the wrongs of the ages
    therefore a cross …..”I will remember their sins no more.”

    to love you with all my heart with all my mind with all my soul and with all my strength. to love you more than self. praying for light. the light is painful when we use it to look at ourselves. called to repentance and forgiveness, called to love in Spirit and Truth.

  242. street says:

    from the movie star wars, “nothing to see here, move along”….turn your eyes upon Jesus…..

  243. street says:

    19
    When anxiety was great within me,
    your consolation brought me joy.

    For the Lord will not reject his people;
    he will never forsake his inheritance.
    15
    Judgment will again be founded on righteousness,
    and all the upright in heart will follow it.

    16
    Who will rise up for me against the wicked?
    Who will take a stand for me against evildoers?
    17
    Unless the Lord had given me help,
    I would soon have dwelt in the silence of death.
    18
    When I said, “My foot is slipping,”
    your unfailing love, Lord, supported me.
    19
    When anxiety was great within me,
    your consolation brought me joy.

  244. poohpity says:

    Jesus endured; false accusations, rejection, ridicule, physical beatings, emotional attacks, hate, being misunderstood, anger, resented, jealousy, name calling and the shame of being hung naked on the Cross YET in His great love for us forgave and asked His Father to forgive because of ignorance in some instances but in other cases seemingly intentional. Of course that was Jesus who was God incarnate.

    Why would He ask us to forgive like He did unless He provided a means or a way for that to be accomplished? His Spirit living inside us knowing it was in our own best interest and our relationship with Him to follow His example of forgiving even when it is not asked for but because that is what He did for us.

  245. street says:

    Why would He ask us to forgive like He did unless He provided a means or a way for that to be accomplished?

    thinking of what He did. the Three of them, One, conspiring of their own free will and love, created redeemed and glorifies mankind. made in the image of God for the purpose of knowing God. adam knew eve. adam knew evil and he died. adam knew God and he lives. it can only be accomplished in God. the righteous shall live by faith. Jesus said it is good that i go away, then I can send the Helper. Romans 5:5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

    thinking of hannah pouring out her heart before God. God filled her heart and and her life far beyond her request.
    So the woman went her way and ate, and her face was no longer sad.

    thinking of mary’s magnificat

  246. Beloved says:

    Jesus says in Luke 17:1-4 there is a kind of forgiveness that lovingly requires/and responds to a change of heart.

    Wondering if I can’t seem to be able to change my heart with all it’s deceptive proclivity toward sin how in the world can I do what Jesus asks of me?

  247. Beloved says:

    To answer my own question, Piper says it has to do with intention. That if we decide we are not going to forgive then we are in danger of judgement, as Jesus says, because we are not saved. But if we are seeking to forgive, understanding through the cross the magnitude of our own sin a sinless Christ suffered and died for, we are saved.

    I can trust Christ in me who changes hearts to help me to will and to do of His good pleasure. :-) hallelujah!

  248. street says:

    just checking to see if the site is up and running. have not been able to post.

  249. street says:

    Forgive?

    good question?

    thinking about the difference between the word forgive and forgiven. forgiven is much more powerful in the past tense. question/doubts do a great injustice to the word forgiven. Jesus asked His Father to forgive them because they did not know what they were doing. in other words clueless. yet i believe Jesus request was granted. as He died, He entrusted this separation from His Father to make it right again. truly finished on God’s ledger.

  250. SFDBWV says:

    Forgive me Mart, but by now those kittens have got to be cats…

    I have been thinking all throughout this subject about our forgiving God and what that means.

    Anyone who has called upon God for deliverance from one thing or another only to receive silence or worse has at some point gotten angry with God.

    Whereas that used to amaze me that anyone would get angry at God or better said waste their energy being angry at the only “person” who could help them or keep them from eternal damnation.

    However as life has given me enough experience to learn that in those moments when we might feel abandoned, disappointed or left to our situations we may get confused, hurt and eventually yes angry.

    If I analyze it, the first thing I am faced with is that nothing we do will force God to do anything contrary to His own will.

    We are taught to accept His will no matter how sometimes that may seem bitter and yes even cruel.

    When I was a child I wondered how could I ever “fear” God. God being pure love and loving me, yet the fear of God is only the beginning of wisdom.

    Longsuffering isn’t easy and sometimes our prayer is so desperate that we may not see all of the blessings that surround us as we do wait for God.

    One thing is for sure, I believe when we have those moments when we may get upset or angry with God, He is quick to understand, weep with us and even quicker to forgive.

    A third thunderstorm is presently causing some wind and rain this morning at 59 degrees…Happy mother’s day to all you mothers out there.

    Steve

  251. poohpity says:

    It would seem that many times we ask God for things then take it upon ourselves and do things our way rather stepping back and allowing Him to work then blame God when things do not go our way. We often want to be the savior and prevent another from the hard things that God needed to prompt the change we had prayed for.

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