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The Rule of Law

In the beginning, there was 1. Then 10 multiplied into hundreds— and thousands.

Later we learn there is a time for everything—a time to see the importance of laws… and a time to see their worthlessness.

If Jesus is in the process of renewing and refreshing all things, how does he throw light on what we say and think about the rule of law?

To a nation that prided and divided itself in endless legal battles, John wrote, “the law came through Moses but grace and truth”… through one who revealed the heart of his Father, by dying like a criminal— to lovingly expose the hearts of jurists and criminals alike (John 1:16).

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91 Responses to “The Rule of Law”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    During the time of the last subject I discussed with Glenna how impossible it was to read Revelation 21:5,:6,:7 KJV and ignore Revelation 21:8 KJV.

    Here at the end still there remains a separation between right and wrong and the consequences of the wrong choices.

    Is it the heart of God to punish evildoers or to forgive them? Are they sent into eternal torment or are the powers of evil erased from existence as would be in a fire without end? Releasing and freeing all evildoers from the grip of sin allowing them to exist into eternity with God?

    For people like me the choice is easy, but for so many, believing they even have a choice is rejected for a myriad of reasons.

    Logic seems to say to me that if God planned all along to forgive everyone and refresh them into a new being, he could not reveal that or else many would live in rebellion expecting and awaiting forgiveness and thus cheating justice for intentional self- serving choices.

    But then Love says to me what does it matter if God forgives all others, He already has forgiven me.

    To obey the law is to love one another, but the two seem to go together. As one without the other seems to be out of balance.

    A cool 55 this morning.


  2. jeff1 says:

    Parents are a big influence in whether I see the law should be kept or bended or broken.

    When I was younger it seemed straight forward in that it was always right to keep the law.

    It’s my mum’s words that come back to me today in that she would say of my father who was strict on keeping laws i.e. down to paying a parking ticket, your dad thinks everyone is honest like himself when of course hindsight tells me they are not.

    In this country today revelations of dishonesty from people whom I was taught to respect and honour because I was lead to believe that if they where in places of power God appointed them to these places because of their honesty and high principles.

    Having an honest man as a dad shows me that others will use the law for their own ends and so it is that robbers are not always those in prison.

    Life teaches us that God is the better judge and why He is worthy of my trust and worship.

    It is not that I am surprised that people will always disappoint me but rather who disappoints, as what do I expect from a criminal but someone who breaks the law, but what do I expect from a so called righteous man but righteousness.

  3. poohpity says:

    The rule of law it seems no matter what laws those are shows me often how rebellious I truly am. I sit in the seat of a jurist but frankly I also sit in the seat of a criminal because I do break the laws. For me to think that I don’t break any laws shows just how blinded I can be especially sitting in the jurors box which I was not elected to do but I am aware of the crimes of breaking those laws because that is obvious to God and He makes it obvious to me but it is done in such a manner that grace wins out.

  4. poohpity says:

    I was reminded of the two criminals that hung next to Jesus, one put his self in the place of a jurist but the other new he was being crucified because of the wrong he did and new that Jesus did not do anything wrong. Which one went to be with Jesus in paradise?

    That was also the case in one of Jesus’ parables addressing the Pharisees as being jurists all the time and commended themselves of self righteousness but applauded the admitted crimes of the tax collector who would not even lift his eyes to the Lord but beat his chest in sorrow over those crimes. However Jesus died for both.

  5. street says:

    the law is souless, print on a page, yet we are told the law is spiritual and i am a man of flesh. under the sentence of death till it dies or is born again. made new, redeemed from sin, the transgression of the law. the law was good, but it showed i was not, leading me to a wretch end that could not be avoided but could be ignored by deception, but God in His infinite mercy gave me hope in Christ. the one’s who overcome by the blood of the lamb. so thankful, Christ risen to inter-seed for the saints forever!

  6. street says:

    thinking the law is souless when handled improperly. thinking the Word/law made flesh in Christ Jesus. the lamb who takes away the sin of the world and upholding the law. amazing! what we say and think about the rule of law? Matthew 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    thinking of worshipers Jesus spoke of in John 4 23

  7. Beloved says:


  8. street says:

    19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

    20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

  9. foreverblessed says:

    Hallo everybody!
    God be with you all!
    Ex 14:14

    ( If this comment appears the site is working again)

  10. cbrown says:

    Good morning everyone.The “Our Daily Bread” this morning touches this same topic. For Job to actually know God and see Him Face to face changed the way he viewed God.It also changed his concern for his friends.If you Know Jesus you Know God.Love to all.

  11. Hugger4U says:

    I can’t see any comments since the last topic. I can’t tell if it’s the site or my computer exactly so I’m going to post to see if I can see it. Sorry if this is not according to the ‘rules’. I guess rules are sometimes not the best thing when we need to find answers for some problems. Let’s go to the source of all rules…

    Love Been Thinking About.

  12. street says:

    If Jesus is in the process of renewing and refreshing all things, how does he throw light on what we say and think about the rule of law?

    thinking the rule of law is like thinking with out knowledge of God. dead thoughts apart from God. with out Christ, thoughts are dead empty and meaningless pure vanity. i have heard great voices from the talent shows and enjoyed there temporal moments of enjoyment. theses voices are a great testament to something more than the every day struggles we are confronted with. the imprint of the image of much more that is present not only in the singer but even the one in the shadows playing instrument can not be overlooked or underestimated. thinking of david and his great love for Gods Word and how it supported him upheld him strengthen him refreshed him. as wonderful as the temporal joys of creation, the eternal joy of God, on the ash heap surpass them all. oh Lord my God, be my joy when my hour comes.

  13. street says:

    Later we learn there is a time for everything—a time to see the importance of laws… and a time to see their worthlessness.

    thinking of conception in sin and living apart from God, free from righteousness holiness justice and totally alone and hurt. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

  14. bubbles says:

    Thankful to live under grace and not the law.

  15. street says:

    The Rule of Law
    prided and divided
    love and sacrifice
    making all things new

  16. street says:

    16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.5

    2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.

  17. street says:

    The Rule of Law

    you are what you eat.

  18. poohpity says:

    Just wondering if we are able to comment yet?

  19. Mart DeHaan says:

    Am so sorry about the comments not clearing. A setting got changed in the WordPress management page and I didn’t see it. Was thinking that my post laid an egg :-)… Am still checking to see if there are more comments to clear and change setting etc.

  20. Beloved says:

    I love the sovereignty of God!

  21. street says:

    thinking this short period of separation and testing is normal for the exercising growth and development of the children by the Sovereign hand of the Father. learning to stay close and trust in all things. people places and thinks come and go, His word/law remains till it has accomplished all it was sent to do, for Jesus said, I will never leave you nor forsake you. He is Holy Holy Holy!

  22. street says:

    steve i read your comment about the confusion of the condemned and the saved. both are true and hard to wrap our minds around. thinking about the verse in Job that speaks of boundaries established by God not man. they must be respected and revered! thinking of arrons two sons. God even respects the boundaries He has given us! thinking of these boundaries leads me to believe that when we come to one it is time to call to Him because He can come to us and we can receive Him according to His will. Leviticus 10‘By those who come near Me I will be treated as holy,
    And before all the people I will be honored.’”

    thinking of david coming to the temple and eating the show bread such grand mercy and grace apart from the law. peace from the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ be with you. thinking of the priest who payed with their life to help david in time of need. all Glory to God and His Children. they reflect His Glory best.

  23. SFDBWV says:

    There is another “Rule of law” called “Murphy’s law” which states “if something can go wrong it will”.

    Thanks for getting things fixed Mart.


  24. Mart DeHaan says:

    I’m still having a problem figuring out how to automatically approve comments. Something has changed in the blog software. I’m trying to research it on my own, but so far the answers I’m getting aren’t working. Will keep trying. Thanks for your patience.

  25. phpatato says:

    Mart…that would be a goose egg, right? I really started to think it was my computer until Steve emailed me questioning whether it might be his. Then I started wondering if it might be both of ours. haha

    So glad you got it fixed too!

    Bubbles…I agree 100%. I am so very very glad and thankful that I live under grace and not the law. I have many times thought about how I would turn out if I was born in the Old Testament times. I end my thoughts with I probably wouldn’t do well at all because God in His wisdom knew and His will was for me to be born as a baby boomer in this age of soft mattresses, flush toilets and automatic everything. Times were very tough and crude back then for anyone not born privileged. A person must have had a great deal of intestinal fortitude to cope, live and survive. Was the risk high for me to sink and not swim? Only God knows.


  26. SFDBWV says:

    Mart I have learned having a computer has opened up the world to us, but also opened up a whole new world of frustration. My heart goes out to you in dealing with this.

    It is also a good lesson in seeing how dry having thoughts or opinions are without feedback and shared communication actually is.

    If all we get to see is what we think only, maybe we might learn to be more receptive to another’s thoughts.

    Good luck and God’s speed on your quest Mart to fix the problem. I will be patient.

    66 degrees muggy and wet, can’t see the sky, either too cloudy or just enough fog to block it.


  27. poohpity says:

    Without rules or laws there would be chaos or no civilized society could stand without them look what happened before the flood of Noah’s time. You can not even play a game without rules to go by, to be fair to each player.

    As with what happened with the religious leaders after the 613 laws of Moses were enacted they thought themselves wiser than God so they went from those to making more laws, not to live by themselves, but to oppress and burden others with their harsh demands but the saddest part is they no more understood the meaning of God’s laws in the grander scheme of things being how to love God and each other.

  28. street says:

    The world has gone crazy in lawlessness, but we’re to be different. —R.C. Sproul

    living by grace in love makes all the difference in the world. thinking of the One Who overcame the world. He first loved us.

  29. street says:

    Without rules or laws there would be chaos or no civilized society could stand without them look what happened before the flood of Noah’s time. You can not even play a game without rules to go by, to be fair to each player.

    rules or God? we see what a world looks like without God by faith, yet we can not say we’ve seen a world with God unless its by faith. even now, with out Him upholding it and staining it with His Glory and patients we would perish. to say it was made by nothing is shear madness the lawless is here,but so is God and the lawless will pass away. as for fair He told us we will always have the poor. He became poor to redeem that which had no future to give an inheritance with a future. our reward is with Him not the law. grace in Christ Jesus.

  30. street says:

    18 He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

    19 “Did not Moses give you the Law, and yet none of you carries out the Law? Why do you seek to kill Me?” 20 The crowd answered, “You have a demon! Who seeks to kill You?”

    a world without God?

  31. poohpity says:

    God created nature with rules and order just as God asked Job to answer Him.

    ““Who is this that belittles my advice
    with words that do not show any knowledge about it?
    Brace yourself like a man!
    I will ask you, and you will teach me.

    “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
    Tell me if you have such insight.
    Who determined its dimensions?
    Certainly, you know!”

    God created with rules and order by intelligent design so that all things could function as God saw fit but it is mankind who does not listen and chooses to do things on his own rather than following God’s guidelines.

    I will use one prime example, this blog. The guidelines were not followed and it resulted in the loss of participants. ODB had the same guidelines but they had moderators who closely followed the conversation and deleted comments that did not follow those guidelines and it is thriving. It takes rules that are applicable for everyone so it would be a success. God gives us rules and guidelines to follow so that we can live together in peace, harmony and community without them chaos reins.

  32. poohpity says:

    If there were no laws then how would one come to the realization that they are in fact sinners?

    Jesus said, ““Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’ For I have come to call NOT those who THINK they are righteous, but those WHO KNOW they are sinners.”

  33. bubbles says:

    Relieved everyone is all right and things are still here. Computer glitches are something else! I’m currently unable to access something at work that is a must. I’ve asked for help repeatedly and am not getting the assistance.

  34. Beloved says:

    But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    How refreshing!

  35. street says:

    ….but the saddest part is they no more understood the meaning of God’s laws in the grander scheme of things….

    thinking of the pharisees, the holy ones or set apart ones, and the sadducees, the righteous ones, had no need for a Savior or a Messiah. the law did not bring them to God because it did not bring themselves to a true understanding of themselves. like the beggar in the temple beating on his chest or peter in the the boat when they met. paul speaks of the law as a tutor till the son is matured. if the law can not save it can not make one wise or mature either. that wisdom and growth is from the True Vine. i understand Jesus said all the Father gives me i will not lose any. He also said anyone who comes to Him He will in no wise cast out. Jesus also said if you believe what the law and the prophets say about Me you will be saved. all the law and the prophets are about Him and for Him. they penned it, diligently looking into what they were told, but it was not for them but for a future generation they were working for. thank God for their faithfulness! may we be found faithful in Christ.

  36. street says:

    steve was blogging earlier about how Jesus is a stumbling stone to jews and greeks alike. yes it is difficult to digest the enormity of disbelief and it’s end. may we be like isaiah, “send me!”

  37. poohpity says:

    Actually it does not say that “the law as a tutor till the son is matured.” Paul says in Gal 3, “21 Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises? Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. 22 But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.

    23 Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard(tutor) by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.

    24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian(tutor) until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. 25 And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.” also Gal 2:16 NLT

  38. poohpity says:

    So it seems that the law actually exposes our hearts and Jesus even took that a step further to loving expose even our thoughts before they become actions in the Beatitudes. The reason it was so loving was because if we do not understand the level of our need then we can not ever embrace grace fully.

  39. poohpity says:

    For instance Matt 5:28 but also even taking hate and anger to the level of murder

  40. Beloved says:


  41. Beloved says:

    Well, knowing this will be moderated in Gods’ good time I just want to say Mart you make your daddy proud! You have created a space for cowards, insolent and raving lunatics alike, knowing and trusting that God is big enough and more loving than we can even imagine! Away with the rules and make way for Gods providence! While iron sharpens iron and angels dare to tread.

  42. street says:

    The Rule of Law
    thinking of the miracles of Christ Who set aside our understanding of law enforcement and completely destroyed our base understanding of the law and God. thinking of john sending messengers and asking, “Are You the [b]Expected One, or do we look for someone else?” 20 When the men came to Him, they said, “John the Baptist has sent us to You, to ask, ‘Are You the [c]Expected One, or do we look for someone else?’” 21 At that [d]very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He gave sight to many who were blind.22 And He answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them. 23 Blessed is he [q]who does not take offense at Me.”

    later on it was said of john,

    40 And He, Jesus, went away again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was first baptizing, and He was staying there. 41 Many came to Him and were saying, “While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true.” 42 Many believed in Him there.

  43. street says:

    The Rule of Law
    in regard to sowing and reaping.
    you reap what you sow,
    later than you sow,
    more than you sow.

    the Lord of the harvest has the only good seed and it never too late to begin. remembering those who came at the end of the day to work, let us rejoice with them so that our joy may be full in the Lord of the harvest.

  44. Beloved says:

    The letter of the law is not only a stumbling block but a hindrance to those who are not filled with the spirit of Christ.

  45. Beloved says:

    2 Peter 3:9 New International Version (NIV)
    9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

  46. poohpity says:

    It seems what Jesus was speaking about those who come at the end of the day and get paid the same would be someone like the thief who was hung next to Jesus that went to paradise that day. His pay was salvation.

  47. Beloved says:

    There is a very thought provoking article in CT regarding law. “How to Avoid the Folly of the Pharisees,
    The real mistake made by Jesus’ classic adversaries might surprise you.

  48. street says:

    don’t think salvation was ever earned as a wage. if it was we would be fired. sure there was a price to be payed, but it was payed 2000 years ago. paul spoke often about the futility and deception of position wealth education and the goal of knowing Christ. the Bible is clear that only a remnant would be saved. the blind crippled sinners lepers and the dead. zacchaeus was insanely rich and wicked and a total outcast of israel. yet Jesus called him by name and he received Him into his house. we saw a radical transformation of this man. his joy was unmistakable and genuine. thinking of the one return vs the 99 who where not in great peril. Jesus will lose none of His flock, not one.

  49. street says:

    little unsure of who you are following? Jesus is one cry/prayer away.

  50. SFDBWV says:

    I am very concerned about Foreverblessed and Vivian’s ability to post, I hope to see them soon.

    I am awaiting the site to be settled before saying much more.

    Marine Corps boot camp gave me an early lesson in learning to be patient…Not allowed to scratch at sand fleas crawling on our faces, just standing at attention in complete obedience to orders.

    Blessings to all


  51. SFDBWV says:

    In going back to the beginning of the topic the subject of grace verses law has been discussed here several times without any resolution except that grace “trumps” law in God’s desires.

    So for me to figure out why there at the end in Revelation 22:11-15 KJV once again it is stated that there are a difference in people and that God will reward each according to their works, that those who do God’s commandments are allowed into the city and have a right to the tree of life.

    However outside are those who are in disobedience and love the lie.

    Though in Revelation 21:5 KJV God makes all things new, in Revelation 21:8 those in rebellion are in the lake of fire.

    If it is God’s will that none should perish, what do I make of the statement that “But the fearful and the unbelieving…shall have their part in the lake of fire…the second death.”?

    Fearful, afraid of what?

    Isn’t it said that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom? So why then are the fearful in danger of the lake of fire?

    More to consider here.

    Foggy and 62 degrees


  52. poohpity says:

    street, Jesus was using the PARABLE of the hired man to show that no matter when someone believes in Him, in the first of their life or the very last minute everyone gets the same reward(Matt 20:1-16). You do not have to be concerned about who it is I follow or if I understand His teaching, I am OK in both areas but thanks for the concern.

  53. poohpity says:

    Steve, I think you will find the answers to your questions in Romans 2:5-8.

  54. jeff1 says:

    Thinking about the rule of law and how different countries have different laws.

    I went to Ireland for a weekend break and thoroughly enjoyed it and I adhered to their laws and I don’t relate that to me being a believer but because my parents reared me to respect others cultures and laws.

    For those who may wonder why I living in Northern Ireland would refer to Ireland as a different country it is because I see it as such in that I was born British as Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

    I have been keeping laws all my life and believe I am a better person for having guidelines that respect others and not just my own ideals.

    As I journey through this life I see that laws do not harm me and teach me that life is not all about me and that people and cultures and laws are different. I learn to live in a world where I do not have to agree with peoples differences but it is the right behaviour that when I visit another’s country I respect them and I don’t relate that to my beliefs but me wanting to be a law abiding citizen because I believe laws are for the good of all.

    When I was asked the other day on the phone how would I identify myself the girl said to me if I would describe myself as white and Scottish how would you describe yourself and I declined to answer the question.

    At one time I would have said white and British but history tells me I am Ulster Scots but for me it no longer seems important as when in Ireland I met Americans, Australians, French, and English. I enjoyed meeting and greeting them as I saw ordinary people like myself enjoying a break from the grind of this world being themselves away from the bureaucracy of it.

    Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
    Let me hide myself in Thee;
    Let the water and the blood,
    From Thy riven side which flowed,
    Be of sin the double cure,
    Save me from its guilt and power.

    Not the labour of my hands
    Can fulfill Thy law’s demands;
    Could my zeal no respite know,
    Could my tears forever flow,
    All could never sin erase,
    Thou must save, and save by grace.

    Nothing in my hands I bring,
    Simply to Thy cross I cling;
    Naked, come to Thee for dress,
    Helpless, look to Thee for grace:
    Foul, I to Thy fountain fly,
    Wash me, Saviour, or I die.

    While I draw this fleeting breath,
    When mine eyes shall close in death,
    When I soar to worlds unknown,
    Seek Thee on Thy judgement throne,
    Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
    Let me hide myself in Thee.

  55. street says:

    His pleasure is not in the strength of the horse,
    nor his delight in the legs of the warrior;
    the Lord delights in those who fear him,
    who put their hope in his unfailing love.

  56. Beloved says:

    If Jesus is in the process of renewing and refreshing all things, how does he throw light on what we say and think about the rule of law?

    To have the light of Christ we must belong to Him through rebirth. Why did Jesus say his yoke was easy and burden light? Because the law, being made of fleshly moralistic decrees was hard to keep. But with the Spirit of Christ the royal law is easy, ie love God, love each other (christans) and your neighbor-enemies etc. So my next thought is how then do we do fellowship with outsiders? We don’t, the fellowshipping of believers is easy even though disciplinary measures must be used to maintain the peace Christ paid a heavy price for. But the goal is always Christ glorified in and through us. No, there is no fear in love, but only a healthy fear of God above all things. So, as I asked God this morning, how do I love those who are determined to create chaos discord and bad feelings? Not as a brother or sister but as an enemy. Shine the light and God will do the rest. Oh yes His yoke is easy , unlike the law, and His burden is light because its all about grace mercy and truth. Where I often fall short in love God gives me what I need, when I need it. His yoke is easy, I must not forget that as I look out from my Resting place to meet the day. Blessings all!

  57. Beloved says:

    John 13:34-35

  58. Beloved says:

    Fleas on the face!!! Oh Steve what a picture of steadfastness a Christian has in the face of ongoing adversity, thanks I love it!

  59. poohpity says:

    If we do not have relationships with non-believers how will they ever get to hear the Gospel(1 Cor 5:10 NLT)? We are not however supposed to have relationships with those who claim to be Christians but “I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people.” (1 Cor 5:11 NLT)

    These next verses tell us what to look for in those who follow the commandments of Jesus, first one has to know what the commands of Jesus are and that is found in what Jesus taught in John 13:34, 15:12,17; 1 John 3:23. Then John went on to teach 1 John 1:6, 2:4, 4:20 so it will be obvious when we look in the mirror whether we are practicing what we preach or it is just words trying to impress someone else because we know that God can not be fooled like people are.

  60. Beloved says:

    Regarding the fellowship of believers:
    Psalm 55:14
    We who had sweet fellowship together Walked in the house of God in the throng.

    Acts 2:42
    They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

    1 John 1:7
    but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

  61. SFDBWV says:

    I have known many an alcoholic and upon this new world we live in, now people addicted to drugs. Nearly all of the people I knew to be alcoholics perished from their “addiction”.

    Many were nice people, generous to a fault. Literally willing to give you the shirt off their back if you ask for it. I knew a couple who sold the furniture out from under their families in order to finance their habit, yet were some of the kindest gentle people I have known.

    The difference between alcoholics and drug users though is stark and startling. As one would sell their families belongings to go on another toot the other would kill you in order to get high one more time.

    You and I might consider these people to be sick and in need of healing.

    Jesus came to “heal” the sick, it is said.

    Alcoholics, drug addicts, and even people who are sex offenders are sick.

    The “law” of the OT lays out a long list of violations and their punishments, the NT has also one “law”. Accept Jesus as Lord or perish in your sins and face eternal punishment.

    There at the end of all things when Jesus makes all things “new” or if you prefer “refreshed”, does it still come down to our obeying a law or does it come down to the idea that God sacrificed His only Son so that “none” should perish?

    Is it that all alcoholics, sex offenders, drug addicts, murderers, liars, abominations and the such are forgiven and refreshed because of Jesus’ sacrifice or are they all still to face the fires of hell because of their brokenness?

    What is the heart of God and what the letter of God’s Word say?

    If we as Christian’s say, “well I got mine, I’m safe” yet the idea that any other will end up existing in a hellish torment forever, say about our heart?

    I hope that when that hour comes when all are “refreshed” that “all” are refreshed.

    But the Word say’s some will be inside and some will be outside.

    My old departed friend Ellen Anthony constantly worried about her children and grandchildren’s eternal condition, even though I would try and console her, still she worried.

    I have come to better understand her concern, as my eternal condition is in the Lord, but I could never be “happy” knowing any that I love may see eternal damnation.

    I am encouraged that it is written that “every” knee shall bow before the Lord, every to me is all…


  62. jeff1 says:

    Laws teach us obedience as otherwise everyone would want to do things their way and that would bring chaos.

    The trouble in the world is caused by people breaking or bending the laws to suit their purpose rather than seeing that they are there for the good of all.

    As a child if I did wrong I was punished for it so that I learned the difference in right and wrong and so that as an adult I would abide by rules which considered others and I wouldn’t grow up just thinking of my own needs.

    I share this earth with people of very different beliefs, cultures and values and the reality of that is living at peace with them by obeying the laws laid down to guide us to do that.

    When visiting Ireland recently we struck up a conversation with an Irishman who told us how he loved the pipes and we joked with him could he play the sash which is part of the orange tradition and our culture here in the north.

    He laughed and told us that he had dealings with the orange order as his work took him to the north and the one thing he would say about them was they were very honest men and likewise so were his dealings with the English.

    Words without actions mean nothing in this world as many are victims of it.

    The pope is due to visit Ireland and the victims of abuse have spoken critically of how the Roman Catholic church ignored that priests were abusing and sent them to America where they further abused.

    They see it as coming too late for the victims and what makes it worse is that it happened in a sacred environment where the children believed they were safe.

    My mother always said lies don’t stay buried and they will rise up and her words are coming true today as more revelations of abuse are uncovered.

    I am blessed today to have had laws to guide me as I know they set me boundaries so that when I struggled I reminded myself that they were God’s commands and there for my protection and well being.

    Our laws are not perfect but when people take the law into their own hands then we have mob rule and I have seen mob rule on the streets and it is frightening to see. During the troubles two British soldiers got separated from their regiment and a mob took them stripped, tortured and murdered them.

    God’s commands keeps us from becoming self centred so that we live differently in this world and consider others less fortunate than ourselves.

  63. poohpity says:

    Yes I agree that mob rule has hurt many innocent people because people feed off of each other whether something is true or not. Solomon said that people can believe they are right until one hears from the others side. (Proverbs 18:17) So hearing both sides before one forms a judgement seems to be the wise thing to do then let God be the final judge of the heart. (Proverbs 12:15, 16:2, 21:2) Sadly many feel that they are judge, jury and executioner that is why I so love what Jesus said about Himself when He has every right to sit on that seat of judgement BUT John 3:17, 8:15, 12:47

  64. poohpity says:

    It seems there will be a time for judgement but if we trust ourselves into the mighty hands of God then we will trust that His ways are just and right at the end. At the end because everyone will have had enough time to either accept God or reject Him. Who would want to be around anyone they reject, so those who do so about God probably do not ever care whether they are with Him for eternity or outside that eternal Kingdom. The choice is theirs because if it were up to God, He does not want that any should perish but people have made their choice to reject Him and He does not force Himself on anyone.

  65. jeff1 says:

    Pooh’s post: Sadly many feel that they are judge, jury and executioner.

    Isn’t that why we have a legal system where there is an appointed lawyer, judge and jury who examines the evidence before judgement is passed so that no one person has control over the outcome.

    I still believe that the legal system despite its loopholes is effective in delivering justice and that those involved endeavour to improve it and that give me a much better hope than allowing vigilantes to take the law into their own hands.

  66. Beloved says:

    Matthew 22:36-40
    36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    Thinking of the 10 and how these commands of Law are summarized by Jesus here. Love God love your neighbor. Jesus did that perfectly. Interesting that the creator of the Law also died to fulfill it, knowing we could not. The new Adam meant new Life for all! Glory to God! There is so much yet to learn about Him.

  67. Beloved says:

    Thinking of the glorious freedom of the children of God, not freedom from everyday laws, traffic-taxes etc, but freedom from the law of sin and death. Hallelujah!

  68. Beloved says:

    Steve I was wondering if you saw Trump on Tuesday, sounds like some good things may be happening for your state!

  69. street says:

    this thought crossed my mind the last couple of days.

    John 1:46
    “Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” Nathanael asked. “Come and see,” said Philip.

  70. foreverblessed says:

    Hello everybody!
    The site working again.
    When all the comments appeared after a week, having waited somewhere,
    That really touched my heart!
    So will it be with all our prayers, that seemingly get lost…

    One day we will see, what and how God has done with them.

    While there was no communication on this site, I was praying for you all, and then a great peace came over me:
    God is looking after you all!

    But now the weather is cooler, and there are lots of chores waiting for me, that I could not do when it was so hot.

    No time to read all the comments.
    But I saw Steve asked for me! Thank you very much for your concern! That did good to my heart.

    But I love you all.

    May God bless you all.

  71. street says:

    so right forever. we are all out in the fields growing as our Sovereign Father chooses. bearing fruit for His Glory and our joy. sharing our thoughts, hopes, and longings of being one at home. not possible right now for so many have moved on ahead of us and certainly will not be left behind. let the true Light Spirit and Truth be your dwelling place and guide in the wilderness. to Him be Glory now and forever.

  72. poohpity says:

    Viv, even in our legal system ONE person does not fill all three roles. Judge, Jury and executioner usually consists of multiple people who have multiple functions and views, as you said? But God seems to fill all three roles since He is truth and grace. But like I said sadly human beings often try to be god to others filling all three roles rather than being who God asked us to be, His children and follow Him as He is.

    We are given freedom to no longer follow our sinful desires that ruled our lives because the Lord has shown us a new way by breaking those chains, no longer a slave to the flesh but an abundant life by living in and by the Spirit.

  73. SFDBWV says:

    Joyce, no Charleston is about 3 to 5 hours away from me depending on how fast I wanted to drive and of course I can’t attend functions outside of town anymore because of my responsibilities to Matt.

    If you ever get to study the states in the Appalachian range what you find is that the economies have always been of an exploited nature with nothing of a stable long range or long term economy.

    Which is one reason so many of us are wary and cautious of outsiders promising better times are coming.

    Foreverblessed I am glad to see you are back on line, and am looking forward to your thoughts on Mart’s new subject.

    Street I am very impressed, that was a superb comment you made August 22 at 3:01 pm, yes to God be the glory.


  74. Beloved says:

    Forever so good to hear from you again. Yes what street said was superb, we’re all workers in our own sphere yet the Homeland is not that far away and our common destination. Thank you for your prayers as well as the rest who care and pray. I think of John on Patmos sometimes and am encouraged when I feel alone or lost. What a gift we’ve been given to find believing friends around the world!

    Steve I was thinking of his plan to revive the coal industry. If I’m understanding correctly.

  75. foreverblessed says:

    That comment of Street, that we are all workers in our own sphere!

    Are we under the Law, or are we under Grace
    We have discussed that thouroughly in the past.
    I know that I have written once:
    I am not under Law, but under Grace,

    And that was not very well received by a man, who was canoeing a lot.
    As if I was lawless.

    But Paul says:
    I am not under no law I am under the Law of Christ.

    Am I under the law of Christ, in the same way as I was under the Old Testament law, when I was in a fundamental church?

    My whole heart has changed, because that Jesus dwells in me.
    I have said: Jesus, You are the King of my heart.
    A deep personal relation,
    And in that personal relation, Jesus is teaching me the way that is for me.
    And that is personal.
    That might not be your way.

    And that is one of the reasons that Jesus says:
    Love each other

    Meaning: Leave each other alone,
    the one keeps a day holy, and he does it for the Lord,
    the other one does not keep any day holy, and he also does that for the Lord.

    leave each other alone, in all those things that are not essential in our walk with Christ.

    It is essential that we have faith in Jesus,

    Many have commented already:
    The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ
    Gal 3:24

    And I have been “priviliged” to have been under that law. And I found out, just as Paul had done, that no matter how many days you keep holy, or what kind of food you eat, that it will not fill your empty heart.

    You get exhausted, and you cry out: Lord, please help me, I am so warn out, Please where is your Rest, the promise of the peace that is eternal.

    It can only be filled with Jesus Himself:
    The bread of life
    The spiritual water…

    And am I receiving that bread of life,
    by keeping a day holy,by keeping the commandments or by believing that Jesus is my Lord, and my Savior
    Gal 3:25
    Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the Law

    Or do I receive that bread of life, that Water, that Light that lightens my heart
    by being attached to that Vine as a branch.

  76. foreverblessed says:

    When my mother went to Jerusalem, she had a guided tour at the mount of Olives.
    The guide was a jewish man, not a christian, but he was quite well educated what the christians teach.
    He said, Jesus sermon on the Beatitudes is now your new Law.

    I wa thinking: That is peculiar, that non christian man, knows better than many a christian, what our marching orders are.

    Because many a christian is more busy seeing to it that they keep the 10 commandments, than that tehy consider what the Words of Jesus are.

    And it is so obvious:
    Deut 18:15 Deut 18:18
    Moses wrote, while giving the Law, that when the Messiah would come:


    (Sorry for the caps, but this verse out of the OT, was overlooked by me, searching in the OT for the way how to live, looking to all those regulations, but I missed the personal touch, of a walk with Jesus, in faith, not knowing where I would go, but trusting Jesus that He knows, that means, I am no longer in control of my life.
    As when you have the 10 commandments as your guide, you still are in control yourself, asking the HS to help you keep these rules)

  77. foreverblessed says:

    God wants a relation with each one of us personally, He wants us the hear His voice for what I personally can do in His Work for the Kingdom,
    Steve said: Jesus came to
    heal the sick,
    to release the prisoners
    He gives sight to the blind
    He lifts up those who are bowed down
    Psalm 146:5-10

    Jesus wants us to exceed that type of righteousness, He wants to be in contact to each and every one of us personally, and He wants us to hear what He says to me, in my personal life.

    That when I have been renewed in Spirit, and have killed my old man, I am a servant of Christ, and He sends me where He needs me, in my sphere:

    Healing the broken hearted

    Lifting up the spirits of those who are cast down.

    Or what ever else Jesus has planned for me, to be part of rescuing the lost souls.

    I remember Chris having written, years ago:

    When we keep the law of the OT, we are still unprofitable to God.

    Unprofitable servants, — I cannot find the schripture refence to that–

    He cannot use us for the sake of those who are lost, when we do not hear His personal Voice to us.Not that we are lost, but of no use for the work of the Kingdom of God, fishing of men.

    Dear fellow servants of Christ, I pray that you will be able to hear His still small voice, just for you.
    Maybe just to sit down at His feet, resting, breathing in the Breath of Life, that is from Jesus, till you are made whole through and through,

    and that may take years and years

    1 Thess 5:23-24
    May God Himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
    May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    The One who calls you is faithful and He will do it

  78. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed I thought that this may be a subject you were prepared to address and I see it is.

    How very astute to ascribe the Beatitudes as being the new law. As just as the old law of Moses is impossible to fully obey so are the Beatitudes.

    We can only strive to obtain them as only Jesus is able to accomplish total obedience to them.

    This Book, this Bible and all of its stories is a portrait of Jesus, and though far above us, willing to die for us so that we can be renewed, refreshed and born again into His new and coming kingdom void of all the ills that spoiled this one.

    Blessings to all today.

    48 degrees (Fahrenheit) under clear skies. Good to see the stars again.


  79. poohpity says:

    Good words forever! Jesus is like our lawyer who pleads our case then when the guilty verdict is handed down, He is also our substitute in receiving the punishment although we still serve the consequences of our actions which is really a help when we make choices the next time.

    Since Jesus followed all the laws and He lives within us, we also end up following the laws. The laws seemed to be in place so that we know what the actions of loving God and others looks like so we do not cause harm to our relationship with God and with others. Those laws are now written in our minds and hearts through the Holy Spirit. (Hebrews 10:16 NLT)

    Hebrews 10: The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.

    3 But instead, those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year. 4 For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God,

    “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings.
    But you have given me a body to offer.
    You were not pleased with burnt offerings
    or other offerings for sin.
    Then I said, ‘Look, I have come to do your will, O God—
    as is written about me in the Scriptures.’”

    8 First, Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” (though they are required by the law of Moses). 9 Then he said, “Look, I have come to do your will.” He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect. 10 For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.

    11 Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. 12 But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand. 13 There he waits until his enemies are humbled and made a footstool under his feet. 14 For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy.

    15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says,

    “This is the new covenant I will make
    with my people on that day, says the Lord:
    I will put my laws in their hearts,
    and I will write them on their minds.”

    17 Then he says,

    “I will never again remember
    their sins and lawless deeds.”

    18 And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices.

  80. jeff1 says:

    Confusion comes from doubt, waywardness and wrong beliefs but contentment comes from knowing I changed God but God hasn’t changed.

    I was blessed to have a dad who didn’t change God because he knew God much better than I ever did and his example has been an eye opener for me.

    Time can be a healer, though for someone whose mind has been disturbed memories especially the difficult ones are not easy to forget.

    My experiences tell me that hurt people will hurt other people and that forgiving someone in words is very different to doing so in actions.

    “Though your sins be as scarlet,
    They shall be as white as snow;
    Though your sins be as scarlet,
    They shall be as white as snow;
    Though they be red like crimson,
    They shall be as wool!”
    “Though your sins be as scarlet,
    Though your sins be as scarlet,
    They shall be as white as snow,
    They shall be as white as snow.”

    Hear the voice that entreats you,
    Oh, return ye unto God!
    Hear the voice that entreats you,
    Oh, return ye unto God!
    He is of great compassion,
    And of wondrous love;
    Hear the voice that entreats you,
    Hear the voice that entreats you,
    Oh! return ye unto God!
    Oh! return ye unto God!

    He’ll forgive your transgressions,
    And remember them no more;
    He’ll forgive your transgressions,
    And remember them no more;
    “Look unto Me, ye people,”
    Saith the Lord your God!
    He’ll forgive your transgressions,
    He’ll forgive your transgressions,
    And remember them no more,
    And remember them no more.

  81. poohpity says:

    I can without a doubt testify to the chain breaker!!!

    Chain Breaker
    Zach Williams

    If you’ve been walking the same old road for miles and miles
    If you’ve been hearing the same old voice tell the same old lies
    If you’re trying to feel the same old holes inside
    There’s a better life
    There’s a better life

    If you’ve got pain
    He’s a pain taker
    If you feel lost
    He’s a way maker
    If you need freedom or saving
    He’s a prison-shaking Savior
    If you’ve got chains
    He’s a chain breaker

    We’ve all search for the light of day in the dead of night
    We’ve all found ourselves worn out from the same old fight
    We’ve all run to things we know just ain’t right
    And there’s a better life
    There’s a better life

    If you’ve got pain
    He’s a pain taker
    If you feel lost
    He’s a way maker
    If you need freedom or saving
    He’s a prison-shaking Savior
    If you’ve got chains
    He’s a chain breaker

    If you believe it
    If you receive it
    If you can feel it
    Somebody testify

    If you believe it
    If you receive it
    If you can feel it
    Somebody testify, testify

    If you believe it
    If you receive it
    If you can feel it
    Somebody testify

    If you’ve got pain
    He’s a pain taker
    If you feel lost
    He’s a way maker
    If you need freedom or saving
    He’s a prison-shaking Savior
    If you’ve got chains
    He’s a chain breaker

    If you need freedom or saving
    He’s a prison-shaking Savior
    If you’ve got chains
    He’s a chain breaker

  82. Beloved says:

    Prayers please for a severe eye infection and blurriness, thank you!

  83. Beloved says:

    Viv you mentioned memories. I have learned to remind myself that God knows all about them and so I am not alone in my disturbing dreams and memories. Oh what a comforter He is!

  84. street says:

    thinking about the picture mart has chosen for the rule of law. reminds me of the verse where the builder of the house is greater than the house. so true.

  85. jeff1 says:

    Beloved, I am having less of them as I get over to sleep with music and I think of how God will renew my mind so that they no longer disturb my peace and yes it is a great comfort to know that.

    This is a beautiful version that appeared in the 1973 edition of “The Covenant Hymnbook”, of “How Great Thou Art”.

    O mighty God, when I behold the wonder
    Of nature’s beauty, wrought by words of thine,
    And how thou leadest all from realms up yonder,
    Sustaining earthly life with love benign.

    With rapture filled, my soul thy name would laud,
    O mighty God! O mighty God! (repeat)

    When I behold the heavens in their vastness,
    Where golden ships in azure issue forth,
    Where sun and moon keep watch upon the fastness
    Of changing seasons and of time on earth.

    When crushed by guilt of sin before thee kneeling,
    I plead for mercy and for grace and peace,
    I feel thy balm and, all my bruises healing,
    My soul is filled, my heart is set at ease.

    And when at last the mists of time have vanished
    And I in truth my faith confirmed shall see,
    Upon the shores where earthly ills are banished
    I’ll enter Lord, to dwell in peace with thee.

  86. street says:

    with all my heart
    your love

    i woke and you were there
    beside me in the night
    you touched me and calmed my fears
    turned darkness into light
    turned darkness into light

    i woke and saw you there
    beside me as before
    my heart leapt to find you near
    to feel you close once more

    your strength has made me strong
    though life tore us apart
    and now when the night seems long
    your love shines in my heart
    your love shines in my heart

  87. bubbles says:

    Beloved, any time the leader comes to this state, it’s a mess. Overpasses are shut down, roads are closed. This is a economically deprived region but the cost of living is lower than other places. The ground doesn’t move, we don’t have hurricanes, and mountains protect us from tornadoes. Steve and Glenna’s area is stunning with beautiful mountains

  88. Beloved says:

    Street your poem… I was just thinking about Joseph and the many years before he and his grieving father were reunited. But we have that hope here and now, no matter the circumstances, if God alone is our hope and present help. 20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,

  89. street says:

    it a song i like that is sung by a young girl named amira. very famous from netherlands. your love is the name of the song. she has a stunning voice. to me it speaks of the separation between God and man. law and grace.

  90. foreverblessed says:

    Beloved, I am praying for you!

    Street, that song I will look it up, do not know Samira!

    I had written this comment, on the law, before I saw that the topic has moved on.
    But I will post it anyway

    Ha ha, Steve, you thinking that this would be a subject for me! But you know, I was thinking, I have written so much in all those years, that you would get an overload, or rather, I have had it, with the Law.
    It is interesting that now Mart is saying:
    “Later we learn there is a time for everything—a time to see the importance of laws… and a time to see their worthlessness.”

    What I have learned new about this is this thought, a saying to think about:
    God always wanted a personal relation:
    He said to Pharao:
    “Let my people go, that they may worship Me…. in the desert”
    Exodus 4:22-23, 5:1

    Then the people come into the desert, prepare to worship God, but they get afraid:
    They do not want a personal relation with God!
    Exodus 20:18-21
    “Speak to us yourself (Moses), But do not have God speak to us or we will die”
    They were frightened. And they kept God at a distance!

    (Moses could understand that, though, he said to God: You Yourself told them not to touch the mountain, or else they would die)

    So this is what happened:
    To whom He said (to the Israelites) :
    “This is the resting place, let the weary rest”
    (What Jesus repeated in Matt 11:28-30 ” Come to Me…and I will give you Rest”)
    “So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
    Do and do, do and do
    rule on rule,
    a little here, a little there
    so they will go and fall backwards,
    be injured and snared and captured…”
    Isiaiah 28:12-13

    This is what happens when you keep God at a distance from your heart,
    rule on rule, do and do.
    Getting wearied

    God already gives this solution, just after these harsh words in Isaiah 28:1-
    The promise of Jesus the Savior:
    “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone,
    a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation
    the one who trusts will never be dismayed”

    The one who trusts in Jesus, that is!
    And we here on this blog, all do!
    We all trust Jesus as our Lord,
    may it, that we do not do that all the time, we slip, but come back.

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