Text Size: Zoom In

Legalists Anonymous

While spending time in Paul’s letter to the Galatians I’ve begun to wonder whether getting intoxicated together at the open bar of the law is actually more dangerous than alcohol.

Early on, Paul describes how violent he used to be— while living by a system of Law he thought he was keeping (Gal 1:13-14).

Now he’s writing a letter to followers of Christ with concern they are becoming like he used to be (Gal 1:6-7); (Gal 3:1-4); (Gal 4:12).

Seems to me that if Paul’s letter to the Galatians is any indication—the danger has always been to selectively hide behind rules of law, while condemning one another in ways that rob us of the sanity, freedom, honesty, and concern for one another that recovering jurists and amateur prosecutors now find in the Spirit of Jesus (Gal 5:13-15); (Gal 5:22-23).

Or am I missing something?

P.S. The picture is of a Spanish winery


Vote on whether you think this post is something you'll be thinking about:
Vote This Post DownVote This Post Up (+4 rating, 4 votes)
Loading...
305 Comments »

305 Responses to “Legalists Anonymous”

  1. poohpity says:

    lol It would be nice if there was a Legalists Anonymous. I sure would have to join.

    Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over legalism—that our lives had become unmanageable.

    Step 2: Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

    Step 3: Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God.

    Step 4: Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

    Step 5: Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

    Step 6: Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

    Step 7: Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

    Step 8: Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

    Step 9: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

    Step 10: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

    Step 11: Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

    Step 12: Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to the legalistic, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

    If I concentrate on sin all the time and how others sin then I may have an addiction to legalism.

  2. poohpity says:

    If I judge the spirituality of another then I may have an addiction to legalism.

    If I think there are rules to follow to pray(communicate with God) then I may have an addiction to legalism.

  3. poohpity says:

    If my life is not lead by the Spirit as in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness and self control but lead by the flesh in a check list of unattainable moral standards then I may have an addiction to legalism.

  4. cbrown says:

    Debra,like your posts above however I think number 11 above is inconsistent with your point.

  5. cbrown says:

    Sorry number “12”my mistake.

  6. Beloved says:

    Consumed is right, Mart. Forgiveness frees us from the weight of other’s misdeeds. Jesus yoke of love is truly easy in comparison. We are told to lay aside every weight that hinders us. Legalism was the weight Jesus removed from Pauls shoulders, and mine! (Though my eyes sometimes want to take a look back.)

  7. Beloved says:

    Chris! So good to hear from you! Hope you haven’t been affected by the cyclone.

    I’m also praying that Pearl is able to be in her home, it doesnt sound good in her area.

  8. cbrown says:

    Joyce, tonight I am having my Bible study at prison for men who have been judged by the state courts. Praise God for His mercy or we would all be in a worse situation. We use the “Our Daily Bread” for our study and today’s 9/20 is a blessing from God. Love to all!

  9. poohpity says:

    Chris, isn’t #12 sharing about the grace of God and not following the law or expecting others to do it as well? So what I said is exactly on point not only with 12 but with the very 1st step of admitting to living a legalistic life which if one does not know they are doing it, then the “If” comes in to help us come to that of admitting that one “may have a problem” with legalism.

    My name is Deborah not Debra. :-)

  10. poohpity says:

    When one goes out on a 12 step to meet someone where they are their problem normally is trying to figure out whether they are an addict. So there are a number of questions that are presented and if they answer yes to more than 2 we normally do not say “you are an addict” but we do say, “there may be” a problem there to look further into. But just like God’s word if one is not familiar with it or the 12 step programs they will not know that is how it works. The 12 steps are in step with the bible, pun intended, lol. It is only what one is addicted to that differs but the behaviors are the same.

  11. Beloved says:

    3 Are you so foolish? dHaving begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by1 the flesh?

    The flesh must die.

  12. poohpity says:

    Yes Joyce the flesh is thinking it is possible to be justified, sanctified, redeemed and saved by following the law.

  13. jeff1 says:

    KEEP IN STEP WITH THE SPIRIT
    16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy,4 drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

    25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

  14. jeff1 says:

    SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN CHRIST
    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

    11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,5 to the praise of his glory.

  15. jeff1 says:

    BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
    2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.2 4 But3 God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them

  16. foreverblessed says:

    Wow, these Bible verses are soooo rich, so full of the real life in faith in Christ!
    I was thinking, it would be good to learn that by heart!
    And I pray the Holy Spirit will make this real in our inner being.
    Thank you very much Jeff! And good morning!

  17. jeff1 says:

    Thinking of when I was a Sunday school child and I learned the 10 commandments and Catechism of my heart.

    I decided these were way to lofty for me knowing the weakness of my flesh and I was right of course but then I was running from God at the time and not to Him.

    Seem to have spent most of me life doing that for one reason or another but thank God He has better ways than I could ever imagine.

    Thank you, Forever, I pray too that the Holy Spirit will make this real in me so that I can be the person God wants me to be and not an imitator doing a very poor job of it.

    I just need to know I am on God’s side because I already know He is on mine.

  18. SFDBWV says:

    In a departure from my usual shooting from the hip, I took the time to do a little research on this subject before saying anything.

    I was amazed to learn that the Galatians to whom Paul addressed were descendants of Celts who had invaded western and central Asia Minor in the third century BC and converts from paganism.

    The problem being that after Paul had initially established the Galatian church that most likely Jewish/Christians had influenced the Galatian’s to embrace circumcision and adherence to the Mosaic Law along with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    So here in this venue we are to look at how are we to today with our own “Christianity” embracing the Gospel and living out being “Christian.

    We just had a look at “overthinking” things especially Scripture and many times we have had to remember not to get hung up on only one verse of Scripture and base our beliefs on that one thing.

    Is it actually possible to never look back to the Mosaic Law, especially the story in how it was given and why and be “Christian”?

    Are any of us here or do we know of any people who are so removed from the “ Mosaic God given law” that we only see the world around us as a “new law” as ascribed by Jesus?

    Is following the Commandment from Jesus to love everyone as we would ourselves actually the Gospel, or is the Gospel accepting Jesus as Lord and receiving forgiveness, salvation and a return to fellowship with our Creator God?

    In the process of believing we are taught that there was a man who died was buried and rose from the dead three days later, that in His death all of our sins against God are paid for.

    If that was enough then fine, but then we have to learn who this man was and how all of this came about and why? In order to establish in our minds His credibility.

    This step brings us into reading all of the OT, accepting it to be “inspired” writing and even given the higher authority of being called “The Word of God”.

    Life isn’t simple and neither is seeing our adherence to being Christian.

    In other letters Paul admonishes bad behavior among the church and instructs to remove such people from among its fellowship so as not to corrupt the other believers. Is He not following Jesus’ instructions?

    Are we in sin for being able to see sin in others?

    Is recognizing bad behavior or sin a throwback to “legalism”?

    Or is it a God given “Lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path”? Psalms 119:105 KJV

    57 with light fog.

    Steve

  19. poohpity says:

    The OT was the old covenant between God and His people sort of like a guardian until Jesus came and then we are given a new covenant made by the blood of Jesus.

    Gal 3:24-29 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

    So for those who accepted Christ in the NT and until the time when Jesus returns we live in the time of grace. The OT was the time of the law and pointed us to the coming of the Messiah. Luke 24:27

  20. poohpity says:

    The law(OT) served it’s purpose until Jesus came.

    Romans 8: So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

    5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. 6 So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. 7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. 8 That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

  21. poohpity says:

    Yes Paul in 1&2 Cor directed the church to put out a man who was having sex with his father’s wife which the whole church knew about but did nothing and let it continue. BUT was that man or woman actually following the Lord? In Paul’s second letter to that church talked about after a time so they could realize the nature of what they were doing reconciled them back into the church and that was grace.

  22. poohpity says:

    In the letters to the Corinthians that is where Paul teaches about confronting sin within the body of believers to lead to repentance and restoration. No actions were taken because someone did not like or had disagreements with others.

  23. poohpity says:

    You know scripture says that one can believe in Jesus and be baptized but yet not have received the Holy Spirit? Acts 8:15-17 NLT

  24. street says:

    getting intoxicated together at the open bar of the law is actually more dangerous than alcohol.

    true, alcohol can only destroy your body, the open bar can destroy your heart soul and mind.

    thinking about the sin crouching at the door. seems an open mind/door can be a real problem.

  25. street says:

    the danger has always been to selectively hide behind rules of law, while condemning one another in ways that rob us of the sanity, freedom, honesty, and concern for one another that recovering jurists and amateur prosecutors now find in the Spirit of Jesus

    thinking we judge good and evil on how it makes our world easier or harder to our kingdom. yet we will not know how it will turn out till it is played out. joseph told his bothers you meant it for evil , but God meant it for good, even the two dreams he gave him so long ago. in all of this we are told to rejoice! definitely counter intuitive. thinking of Mathew 5

    John 16:20
    Very truly I tell you, you will weep and mourn while the world rejoices. You will grieve, but your grief will turn to joy.

    Finally, brothers and sisters, rejoice! Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.

    redeem the time, redeem the space, redeem the things that really matter. God bless us in our striving for full restoration.

  26. Beloved says:

    Thanks for the reminder of Joseph.

  27. Beloved says:

    Time, restoration takes time.

  28. Beloved says:

    Not our time, but Gods timing.

  29. SFDBWV says:

    Zechariah 14:16-19 KJV, commandments and punishment after Christ is on the throne in Jerusalem.

    Revelation 22:14-15 KJV, commandments and punishments at the end of all things.

    Is it really possible to separate the “law” from being Christian totally?

    Steve

  30. Beloved says:

    Steve I dont think so. Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, only He kept it perfectly. I have come to understand that as we are a Holy people unto God we are to ‘act’ holy in our lives. The Law shows us what holiness looks like in the ten which covers everything. To say, well, God in Christ made me righteous so grace will cover whatever I feel like doing is anathema to the great price Jesus paid for our redemption. Therein lies the rub, I think. Paul agonized over his wrongdoing and rightly so, as should we all. Well Steve, thats my 2 cents worth. (For those overseas its 2 pennies which is the least valuable of coins.)

  31. Beloved says:

    I just thought of the thief on the cross. Today you shall be with me in paradise, Jesus said. The thief was dying also so no time for him to live out his walk, so to speak. How fortunate for him, feeling true freedom for the first time with no opportunity to backslide, fail, sin etc. Yet the joys of living life as a Child of God and sister of the Savior is outstanding! What hopes, what possibilities, what a future we have to look forward to!

  32. poohpity says:

    Hebrews 10: 11 Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. 12 But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand. 13 There he waits until his enemies are humbled and made a footstool under his feet. 14 For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy.

    15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says,

    16
    “This is the new covenant I will make
    with my people on that day, says the Lord:
    I will put my laws in their hearts,
    and I will write them on their minds.”

    17 Then he says,

    “I will never again remember
    their sins and lawless deeds.”

    18 And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices.

    One has to discern what are the laws or commands that the Lord has put on our hearts and in our minds! Could it be to believe in the One God sent and to love others? 1 John 3:23

  33. Beloved says:

    Steve Jesus said this Himself. Pretty direct and to the point. Matthew 5:17-20 CEV

  34. Beloved says:

    Thinking obedience is not a literal sacrifice, like the burnt offerings in the temple, although it feels like it sometimes. The law written in our hearts is us knowing what is good and pleasing to God. To do good to our enemies and friends, to treat others as God has treated us.

  35. Beloved says:

    Romans 10:1-5 New International Version (NIV)
    10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

    5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”[a]

    He is speaking of the Pharisees laws of righteousness, not the Mosaic law. (4)

  36. Beloved says:

    Hebrews 9:10
    10 but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.

    There was a long time when I thought the 10 were rendered obsolete by Jesus. I knew they were good but I also thought the God of the old testament was harsh and unloving. Jesus was much easier to love. Finally I’ve learned to love that old testament God and understand Him better, thanks to the grace of God alone. Jesus loved His Father so much! He’s been a good teacher and I feel so blessed. Blessed reformer!

    Dear street, I am not drunk with wine but with the Holy Spirit!

  37. street says:

    Is it really possible to separate the “law” from being Christian totally?

    Steve

    yes steve! love is the fulfillment of the law. we see blessing and adversity here on earth and God loves us all the time and changes not. all adversity is not punishment from sin. i can not teach you to love or have compassion on another unless i am abiding in Christ/Word and Holy Spirit. Jesus learned suffering through obedience. if we follow, expect the same thing. we were told this would happen. just make sure you’re going to court for obeying God. many go to court obeying the law of God and even losing their lives. we in the west have had an easy ride and we struggle and complain? sorry i have been reading Wurmbrand.

  38. street says:

    steve the Zechariah 14:16-19 KJV was pretty neat. the difference is between those who worshiped God and those that did not. cain and able come to mind. those who got on the ark and those who did not. steve could you ever see yourself not trusting or worshiping God? i’m not talking sinless perfection here and now? we still confess our sins to Our High Priest and His still intercedes for the Saints. we are told to seek His Face with all our hearts. some seek His hand, which is synonymous with blessing. we are in His hands already, the place of blessing. still seek His Face, Christ. even paul understood it is a completed work, but not here. seeking in Bible reading meditation prayer worship with the fellowship of believers, the struggle for unity, one of heart and mind with each other. only God can pull this off. learning to walk think speak and love all at the same time?

  39. street says:

    Time, restoration takes time.

    they overcame by the Blood of the Lamb. nothing added to it. rejoice rejoice and again i say rejoice. you know the Lord and He has given a deposit. your redemption is sure in Christ. keep your lamp full and keep extra oil.

  40. street says:

    8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit, “God is Love”, of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

    given a new Spirit in Christ.

    5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

    Jesus’s love is on every page.

    4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

    He commanded us to love one another as He has loved us.

    kinda puts an end to the law since there is no law against Godly Love. Jesus was faithful to the end and raised from the dead. Jesus will not lose any the Father has given Him nor will He cast out any that come to Him. few find the narrow gate.

  41. foreverblessed says:

    Street, I agree with you:
    Christ is the end of the Law!

    Moses said:
    Deut 18:18
    When the Prophet comes you must listen to Him.

    Paul said:
    I am under the law of Christ

    So to me now it is quite plain:
    Instead of studying in the Torah what all the rules are, I ought to study what Jesus was teaching!
    That should be the commands that I obey,
    ““I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him”
    Streets quote from 1 John 2:4 just above.

    So “His commands” are to be taken as the Higher way!

    But….
    We could still have the problem of legalism

    Legalism in following the commands of Jesus.

  42. SFDBWV says:

    I really did not intend to write this morning, but Street’s honest heart felt dialog to me has compelled me to.

    It may be that we are talking apples and oranges here Street, as sometimes our intended comments somehow get lost in reception. If that is so I am certain it is because of me. My apologies.

    My life, all of it, is a testimony to my believing God and trusting Him.

    God speaks to me from many sources, from Genesis to Revelation, through other people, by experiencing His hands upon my circumstances, by the people He puts in my path, in dreams and visions and through His Holy Spirit.

    At a point in my journey His message to me was and is to “stand fast”. Such a message can certainly be over thought and misunderstood except for the fact that He directs my understanding of it and leads me along it, step by step. Sometimes to the bewilderment of others and the amazement of even myself.

    Last evening Glenna and I watched a segment of Hal Lindsey’s TV program and his commentary was “spot on” as he spoke of Christianity being under attack and he pointed out where and by whom.

    Christian values are under attack, our moral base is under attack. Our very understanding of what a Christian believes is under attack.

    Yes, Jesus said that the world first hated Him and it would hate us as well. We who endure to the end will stand fast on the Rock of our salvation and safe in the Ark. Time is indeed running out and time is accelerating toward the rapture.

    My whole understanding of being Christian is blended together with knowing right from wrong, with honoring Jesus’ sacrifice by striving to imitate the Father and live a holy life all the while knowing I can’t but still trying to. Trusting my failures to Jesus’ sacrifice and the Fathers forgiveness.

    However I am not blind to the ugliness of sin. When I say the world is dark and sinister it is dark and sinister through the actions of people. The world of nature is actually quite beautiful and the handiwork of God is seen by me everywhere.

    Sin is seen in people. Sin is the violation of the “law” of God.

    I cannot exist as a Christian without knowing the difference between right and wrong and by choosing right over wrong. Because God commands it, because Jesus lived it and also commands it, and because choosing Jesus is also a commandment with eternal consequences for either obedience or disobedience.

    However once again it is only by the indwelling of God/Christ/Holy Spirit that I am able to do any of the things I mention…Even standing fast on my faith and awaiting Him.

    I don’t think there is a disagreement between us Street, just a difference in how we say the same things.

    Steve

  43. poohpity says:

    Jesus gave us a perfect reflection of what legalism looks like in Luke 18:

    9 Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else: 10 “Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not like other people—cheaters, sinners, adulterers. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! 12 I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’ (acts done in the flesh)

    13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ 14 I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

  44. foreverblessed says:

    Legalism, isn’t that also the focus of distinguishing right from wrong?

    God gave the choice, long ago:
    The Tree of good and evil
    The Tree of Life

    And in Jesus it is clear, the Life is through faith in Jesus.

    So there is the Faith thing again!

  45. poohpity says:

    We are saved by grace, through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). The keeping of the Law cannot save anyone (Romans 3:20; Titus 3:5). In fact, those who claim righteousness on the basis of their keeping of the Law only think they’re keeping the Law; this was one of Jesus’ main points in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:20–48; see also Luke 18:18–23).

    The purpose of the Law was, basically, to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24). Once we are saved, God desires to glorify Himself through our good works (Matthew 5:16; Ephesians 2:10). Therefore, good works follow salvation; they do not precede it.

    Conflict between “grace” and the “Law” can arise when someone 1) misunderstands the purpose of the Law; 2) redefines grace as something other than “God’s benevolence on the undeserving” (see Romans 11:6); 3) tries to earn his own salvation or “supplement” Christ’s sacrifice; 4) follows the error of the Pharisees in tacking manmade rituals and traditions onto his doctrine; or 5) fails to focus on the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27).

    When the Holy Spirit guides our search of Scripture, we can “study to show ourselves approved unto God” (2 Timothy 2:15) and discover the beauty of a grace that produces good works.

  46. poohpity says:

    Pastor Cole explained the teaching of Jesus on legalism as “Pride is at the heart of legalism; humility is at the heart of true Christianity.” We see that each time Jesus confronted the religious leaders as did Paul in Galatians.

  47. street says:

    intoxicated together at the open bar of the law is actually more dangerous than alcohol.

    the danger has always been to selectively hide behind rules of law,

    sin can not be hidden from His eyes.

    a sin that causes hunger thirst mourning and sorrow or intoxication. is our joy/hope in the midst of sorrow and presents of God or in sin and intoxication?

    loving God strengthens our soul with true life. a life that is given from God Himself. I Am the true vine you are the branches. comes to mind. a new sap, a sap of growth and fruitfulness. even when they are old they will be green and full of sap. beware, the Gardener prunes the branches with love in order to make them more fruitful. to conform them to the image of His Son. a Son Who endured the cross for the joy set before Him. the Father patiently waits for the harvest, lets us not sleep during the time of the harvest. comittined to and for graceful goods?

  48. Beloved says:

    Romans 12:1-2 rc says holiness is non-conformity to the world.

    Jesus gave us access to this New World through His blood. Life is in the blood. Jesus gave His life through His obedience to our Father, not conformity to the laws of man.

  49. street says:

    11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

    14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

  50. street says:

    I don’t think there is a disagreement between us Street, just a difference in how we say the same things.

    a difference in how to express and speak the truth in love ? i think not. true light is not missed by the soul that walks with God or seen in the world of darkness. it’s how we respond that makes all the difference. paul confronted error even sin on an individual and church level. his life and ministry as an Apostle brings that out. it could not have been successful unless He was a true Apostle. making us pay closer attention to the WORD than to each other. paying closer attention to the Holy Spirit Christ has given us. yes the law is good to flush out the wolves in the church and rightfully so. we are to walk by the Spirit. truly alive from the dead. dying daily in order to live for Christ in the Spirit He gave us. no longer for ourselves. each soul growing where God has placed them bearing fruit for His Glory. graceful goods. love joy peace patients kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness self control.

  51. SFDBWV says:

    Very well Street, please tell me in your own words where it is you believe we do not agree.

    Steve

  52. Beloved says:

    I was reading Martin Luthers commentary on Galatians and I found this interesting in how he, Paul, ends his rebuke very lovingly, 4:12.Be as I am; for I am as you are.

    In beseeching the Galatians to be as he is, Paul expresses the hope that they might hold the same affection for him that he holds for them. “Perhaps I have been a little hard with you. Forgive it. Do not judge my heart according to my words.”

    We request the same consideration for ourselves. Our way of writing is incisive and straightforward. But there is no bitterness in our heart. We seek the honor of Christ and the welfare of men. We do not hate the Pope as to wish him ill. We do not desire the death of our false
    brethren. We desire that they may turn from their evil ways to Christ and be saved with us. A teacher chastises the pupil to reform him. The rod hurts, but correction is necessary. A father punishes his son because he loves his son. If he did not love the lad he would not punish him but let him have his own way in everything until he comes to harm. Paul beseeches the Galatians to look upon his correction as a sign that he really cared for them. “Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous;nevertheless, afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.” (Heb. 12:11.)

    Although Paul seeks to soften the effect of his reproachful words, he does not take them back. When a physician administers a bitter potion to a patient, he does it to cure the patient. The fact that the medicine is bitter is no fault of the physician. The malady calls for a bitter
    medicine. Paul wants the Galatians to judge his words according to the situation
    that made them necessary.

  53. jeff1 says:

    Thinking of tough love Beloved.

  54. Beloved says:

    Yes, tough love with humility by grace. I really loved reading Luther’s comments.

  55. Beloved says:

    Interesting that Mart concludes with that verse, I think, unless I’m overthinking again. But Paul is a good example to me in handling diverse opinions.

  56. street says:

    steve do you not remember marts previous post about agreeing to disagree? coming to grips with what we agree on is more important than what we disagree on. was reading wurmbrand about how denomination barriers were removed by persecution and suffering. are we going to argue over our pleasure or share in suffering? the false notion of keeping the law and feeling good about ourselves instead of of Christ who ask us to carry a cross daily. i don’t not recall disagreeing with you. i would have to revisit the previous posts.

  57. street says:

    My whole understanding of being Christian is blended together with knowing right from wrong, with honoring Jesus’ sacrifice by striving to imitate the Father and live a holy life all the while knowing I can’t but still trying to. Trusting my failures to Jesus’ sacrifice and the Fathers forgiveness.

    i blogged on this earlier about eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. paul confronted peter in his return to the law and separating himself from his gentile compatriots. mart brings up this point in how law was powerless to bring us together and actually divides us. if so how are we to live? there is another tree, the Tree of Life.how did abraham deal with this? he believed God! we sometimes forget God spent time visiting abraham at his home, even when He came down to deal with the two cities. i think that visit totally freaked abrham out at the shear destruction the following day. anyway the next question is what does unity look like among the brethren? all the different gifts abilities maturity levels and so on and so on? it seems to me that a clue would be the office of a priest. what does a priest do what is his purpose. the idea of a Kingdom of priest comes to mind. i think of the time coming when the greatest to the least will all know the Lord. paul shames us about people not knowing the Lord and i think of the difficulty of young and old and all the maturity levels. given this add to it denominations poor teaching poor living of those who claim to be guides to the blind. a few have mentioned this problem and hopefully got past it and forgiven them. this brings me full circle to seeking the face of Christ and building upon the rock you had dug down to by obeying His Word. i see Christ as a foundation and a capstone. buried in baptism, raised in Christ. conformed to His image.

    lets cut to the chase….they overcame by the blood of the Lamb.

  58. street says:

    Very well Street, please tell me in your own words where it is you believe we do not agree.

    you don’t want to hear my words/thoughts they are trash/rubbish. i think what you really want is an audience with God. Job wanted the same thing. before this transpired he asked for a witness, a mediator, and a redeemer. a witness that could verify the truth
    a mediator so he would not be crushed or run over, a fair hearing.
    a redeemer, this is by far the most fascinating request of all! a redeemer that would bring his world back from the chaos, to a time of peace with God! he recognized this peace as a righteous man who lived on the earth and was not presently his current experience brought about by the idea of retribution theology espoused by his friends. long story short job understood that God had a plan and was Sovereign. his trust in Him was bolster by God’s presents and requested his complain be withdrawn, repentance, and go back to the trash heap / sack cloth and ashes. he was not done. had to pray for his three friends.

    we find all these things in Christ and we are to follow by the Spirit He has given us. His voice/ Word ringing in our ears hear and mind. ever thankful and joyful of His great love for us. loving the ones He loved and died for. hang in there my friend i know you are struggling and it is peace time too. praying

  59. jeff1 says:

    Hear the cries of the shackled from the onset of time,
    For the chains of defeat theres no key.
    See the tears of the broken, the cries of the slaves:
    Is there no one worthy to set us free?

    The the crying is stilled as the chorus rings out,
    The shackled released from their chains.
    And thousands of voices are swelling the song:
    Worthy the Lamb that was slain.

    Worthy, worthy,
    Worthy the Lamb that was slain.
    Worthy the Lamb that was slain.

    Then all the archangels, the saints of all time,
    Holding their crowns in their hands,
    Fall down before Him joining the song:
    Worthy, worthy the Lamb!

    Worthy, worthy,
    Worthy the Lamb that was slain.
    Worthy the Lamb that was slain.

    Praise Him, praise Him,
    Praise the Lamb that was slain.
    Praise the Lamb that was slain.

  60. street says:

    Oswald Chambers is really good today

  61. street says:

    Word ringing in our ears hear and mind

    should be Word ringing in our ears heart and mind

  62. SFDBWV says:

    Ok Street thank you for your response, I won’t push nor pick as that is, I suppose, your best at answering my question. That is all I can ask.

    God’s blessings on your journey.

    Steve

  63. jeff1 says:

    From Sunday morning reflections.

    Royal Telephone

    Central’s never “busy,” always on the line;
    You may hear from heaven almost anytime;
    ‘Tis a Royal service, free for one and all;
    When you get in trouble, give this Royal line a call.

    Refrain:
    Telephone to glory, oh, what joy divine!
    I can feel the current moving on the line,
    Built by God the Father for His loved and own,
    We may talk to Jesus through this Royal telephone.

    There will be no charges, telephone is free,
    It was built for service, just for you and me;
    There will be no waiting on this Royal line,
    Telephone to glory answers just in time.

    Fail to get the answer, Satan’s crossed your wire,
    By some strong delusion, or some base desire;
    Take away obstructions, God is on the throne,
    And you’ll get your answer through this Royal telephone.

    If your line is “grounded,” and connection true
    Has been lost with Jesus, tell you what to do:
    Prayer and faith and promise mend broken the wire,
    Till your soul is burning with the Pentecostal fire.

    Carnal combinations cannot get control
    Of this line to glory, anchored in the soul;
    Storm and trial cannot disconnect the line,
    Held in constant keeping by the Father’s hand divine.

    UNTIL THEN

    My heart can sing when I pause to remember
    A heartache here is but a stepping stone
    Along the trail that’s winding always upward
    This troubled world is not my final home

    But until then my heart will go on singing
    Until then with joy I’ll carry on
    Until the day my eyes behold that city
    Until the day God calls me home

    The things of earth will dim and lose their value
    If you recall they’re only borrowed for awhile
    And the things of earth that cause my heart to tremble
    When remembered there will only bring a smile

    But until then my heart will go on singing
    Until then with joy I’ll carry on
    Until the day my eyes behold that city
    Until the day God calls me home
    Until the day God calls me home

    WHO SAYS

    You can see it in the morning sun
    As it’s falling when the day is done
    In the blue sky or in the rain
    He just shows up, shows up in so many ways

    There right in front of you
    Look up in your rear view
    Everywhere you turn, His fingerprints are visible
    He’s right there in the middle
    With more than just a little
    Light beyond a shadow of a doubt
    So who says you can’t see love
    Who say you can’t see God

    Does the story of His love make you cry
    Does it make you stop and wonder why
    He would ever take your place
    You know, you know that’s just His amazing grace

    There right in front of you
    Look up in your rear view
    Everywhere you turn, His fingerprints are visible
    He’s right there in the middle
    With more than just a little
    Light beyond a shadow of a doubt
    So who says you can’t see love
    Who say you can’t see God

    Open the eyes of my heart, I want to see you

    There right in front of you
    Look up in your rear view
    Everywhere you turn, His fingerprints are visible
    He’s right there in the middle
    With more than just a little
    Light beyond a shadow of a doubt
    So who says you can’t see love
    Who say you can’t see God

  64. poohpity says:

    you might be legalistic if;

    You look down on others rather than looking up to Jesus.

    You think you have to do anything to earn the gifts from God like; salvation, redemption, justification, sanctification or the Fruit of the Spirit.

    You do things so that other people will think well of you rather than doing them from your heart.

    You don’t do things because of what other people may think of you but do them in secret.

    You think the big sins like murder and adultery are not as bad as anger, gossip, slander, lies, false accusations. You believe there are degrees of sin and do not include our thoughts.

    You think it is possible to follow the 10 and push aside all the other 603 which includes the sacrifices you must do to cover you when you break just one of them.

    You think God needs you rather than it is you that needs God.

    You think God’s love depends on your actions and behaviors and rejects you because of your actions and behaviors.

    You think that spending time with just Christians does anything other than preventing you from sharing the Gospel.

    You think that God wants or expects anything from you beyond a relationship with Him.

    You think that you are not legalistic in some form or another. I have a seat with my name on it in “Legalists Anonymous”.

    When we do anything like read the bible, pray, sing worship songs, go to church because we HAVE to and not because that is our hearts desire….you may be legalistic.

  65. poohpity says:

    If one does not read the book of Galatians you may never know the difference between legalism and grace. The difference in living under bondage to the law(OT covenant) and the freedom offered to us through Jesus Christ and His grace(NT covenant).

  66. poohpity says:

    Allow God through the Holy Spirit to teach you rather than struggling with your own understanding.

  67. street says:

    i remember a teacher recommending reading Galatians every day from beginning to end, about a 20 min read, for 30 days. he said you would understand the book much better with the repetition and having the Words in your mind over this 30 day period of time. the repetitive exposure takes you a little deeper than a casual reading. like looking into a panoramic view and enjoying it. the when you are done and want to move on or go somewhere else you stay longer. in the hope that it goes with you. we know law can be written on paper, but can it go with you? what will it do for you? we have heard there is a Spirit to the law, i think this is what people strive for. hunger thirst mourn. satisfied and comforted by rest. Emanuel life here on earth has ups and downs regardless of who you are. we are told that God would not let them enter His rest because of unbelief. getting past the up and downs is difficult, grace here and lots of it, rest in Christ Jesus, LORD.

  68. Beloved says:

    Romans 5:3-4
    New Living Translation

    We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they help us develop endurance. And endurance develops strength of character, and character strengthens our confident hope of salvation.

  69. Beloved says:

    I remember something Maru said a few years ago. She said she thought no one here has suffered to the point of sweating blood. I think of that when going through trials here and at home. Our King – brother- Jesus is the most perfect Leader here and at home. Perfect in humility, service, and love. Fix your eyes on Jesus, not legalism or legalists or even the words written here. They are all passing away as we are, like the grass that shoots up then dries up and dies. But the Word of the LORD remains forever.

  70. foreverblessed says:

    Reading Galatians everyday?
    Wow!
    Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

    This was posted before on this topic.
    Yet it is a question I can ask many evangelical or penticostal people, they start in the Spirit, but then as they study more of the Bible, they come up with the question, what to do with the Mosaic law, and they come with the Sabbath command, and the festivals of Leviticus 23.
    My question to them is, what do you think that you can learn from that, more than what you already have in Christ?
    The Spiritual Life, the Life you can only have being in connection with Jesus, connected to the Vine?
    The bread of life?
    The Way the truth and the Life?
    The Good Shepherd?
    The Light in our darkness?

    Oh, thanks be to Jesus, who brings us back to God, into a close relationship with Him.
    That whatever the Spirit wants to whisper in my ears, especially for me, I would hear that, and the Spirit would also give me the power to do it, the moment I decide to do it.
    Not before, but at the same time.

    What law on paper could perform that? Not even the 10 commandments, how good they are, nonetheless.

  71. poohpity says:

    street the only way one can understand that book is with the help of the Holy Spirit no matter how many times one reads it. The is a good example of depending on the flesh, repetitive reading, rather than on the Spirit. John 14:26 NLT

  72. poohpity says:

    Good word forever

  73. foreverblessed says:

    Wanting to know what the rules on paper are, for being a christian, see it as this:
    It keeps God at a distance.

    You can decide for yourself every moment of your life.

    It gives certainty outside of God, even if the rules are from the Bible, even if they are the 10. However good they are.

    But God wants a close connection with us!
    Moment by moment very dear to Him!
    I whisper what is in my mind, He whispers what is on His mind, His mind is sooo much higher than mine, but He slowly forms me, molds me ( as I respond to His new commands for me), cleanses me ( as I look up in faith to the Cross, as the Israelites looked up to the snake, and we’re healed)
    ( Praying, studying your Bible going out helping your fellow man, but looking up in faith, moment by moment, is sooo valuable!
    Where in the 10 does it say so. Sorry for being so stern on the 10, but Jesus came that we might have life, and life to the full!
    And when I was young the preacher said: when we follow the 10, our lives will be full!
    And that is what I did.
    Till my heart ran dry, and crying out to God, where is the full life?
    The answer is:
    Jesus!!!

  74. foreverblessed says:

    A Christian follows a Person:
    Jesus Christ!

    Wherever He goes, the Christian follows.
    Wherever He stays, the Christian stays

  75. foreverblessed says:

    Street, I really do appreciate what you wrote, yesterday, between 6 and 8 pm, and today..What will the law do for you, will he walk with you?
    Lol
    Some preacher said once, the law is like a lazy husband who tells his wife what she should do, but he himself does not move a finger, sitting on the coach.

    I thought that a good comparison, me bring a house wife.

    But the thought appeared to me, last week, having had conversations with different Christians, about what the essence of a Christian is, I was telling about a Catholic priest, who was part of a commission, after the 1963 changes of the Catholic Church, what the essence is:
    Every christian in faith connected to Jesus, by the Spirit having the real Life flowing through them, the Life from Jesus, by the Holy Spirit, guiding them, instructing them, cleansing them, in short, a love relation between Christian and Christ!

    In three instances, they looked at me and said:
    There are many Christians who just want to keep it strictly as a sensible way of living. A set of rules you follow.

    This answer of yours is much too spiritual, too mysterious.

    Then I thought: They want to keep God at a distance, He should not come too close to their heart. Not that they are lost…
    but please Lord, have mercy on them, touch their hearts!!!
    !!! In the name of God thf Father, Jesus the Son, and the Hu Spirit!

  76. Beloved says:

    Jesus followed the 10 Commandments and taught them. But He taught and lived the Spirit of the law, which the Pharisees could not understand until after the resurrection.

  77. Beloved says:

    Matthew 16:26-28 New International Version (NIV)
    26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

  78. Beloved says:

    Thinking God gave gifts for each to use on believers and unbelievers alike! Using our gifts will be rewarded. Yet we will lay our rewards/ crowns down at His feet on the great Day. Oh how great if our denominational differences could be laid aside and all agree as mart says and street reminds us (thank you) on what is important, Christ crucified, buried and risen. He lives! Surely the ongoing work of Christ in each of our lives is much more interesting and especially to unbelievers, who need to see and hear that Jesus died for them, and that Gods goodness is contained in a bloody sacrifice on a cross. Poured out for everyone to take away sin once for all if they only believe and follow, Jew greek man woman child slave free rich poor agnostic athiest buddhist Moslem and especially, the least of us.

    Ha ha a bit of sermonizing here but I’m having vertigo today so can’t drive to church. Driving in my chair I suppose. Lol

  79. street says:

    street the only way one can understand that book is with the help of the Holy Spirit no matter how many times one reads it.

    very true. yet i know they can see Christ in flesh and blood, even in 2018.

  80. street says:

    For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.

    13
    Behold, My servant will prosper,
    He will be high and lifted up and greatly exalted.
    14
    Just as many were astonished at you, My people,
    So His appearance was marred more than any man
    And His form more than the sons of men.
    15
    Thus He will sprinkle many nations,
    Kings will shut their mouths on account of Him;
    For what had not been told them they will see,
    And what they had not heard they will understand.

    John 13:16
    Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.

  81. foreverblessed says:

    ” For what had not been told them they will see,
    And what they had not heard they will understand.”

    That sounds like a miracle, a mysterious thing to happen to a human:
    Seeing Jesus.

    On this Rock My church is build, and the gates of hades will not overcome it
    Matthew 16:18

    In this thing of good and evil, it is more a matter that we see:

    Who is that Good one.

    That is a Revelation.
    The miracle that happens in a human heart
    “Let light shine out of darkness”
    2 Cor 4:6, John 1:5, Gen 1:3

    And the realization that we were all along captive to the evil one.
    The song Jeff gave this morning,
    Who will free the ones that are imprisoned?
    ( my words)
    Who will???

    Worthy is the Lamb that was slain
    Worthy, worthy, worthy

  82. Beloved says:

    I did not author this but its what I believe. Legalists Anonymous? No, Captives of Christ Victorious!

    Question: “What is the law of Christ?”

    Answer: Galatians 6:2 states, “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ” (emphasis added). What exactly is the law of Christ, and how is it fulfilled by carrying each other’s burdens? While the law of Christ is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:21, the Bible nowhere specifically defines what precisely is the law of Christ. However, most Bible teachers understand the law of Christ to be what Christ stated were the greatest commandments in Mark 12:28–31, “‘Which commandment is the most important of all?’ Jesus answered, ‘The most important is, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” The second is this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” There is no other commandment greater than these.’”

    The law of Christ, then, is to love God with all of our being and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. In Mark 12:32–33, the scribe who asked Jesus the question responds with, “To love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” In this, Jesus and the scribe agreed that those two commands are the core of the entire Old Testament Law. All of the Old Testament Law can be placed in the categories of “loving God” or “loving your neighbor.

  83. Beloved says:

    John 3:36
    36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

  84. Beloved says:

    Pauls words to his protege Timothy:
    2 Timothy 2:15 New Living Translation (NLT)
    An Approved Worker
    15 Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth.

  85. street says:

    13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

  86. street says:

    Allow God through the Holy Spirit to teach you rather than struggling with your own understanding.

    To have a master and teacher is not the same thing as being mastered and taught. Having a master and teacher means that there is someone who knows me better than I know myself, who is closer than a friend, and who understands the remotest depths of my heart and is able to satisfy them fully. It means having someone who has made me secure in the knowledge that he has met and solved all the doubts, uncertainties, and problems in my mind. To have a master and teacher is this and nothing less— “…for One is your Teacher, the Christ…” (Matthew 23:8). oswald chambers

  87. street says:

    The only word that truly describes the experience of being mastered is love, and we know little about love as God reveals it in His Word. The way we use the word obey is proof of this. In the Bible, obedience is based on a relationship between equals; for example, that of a son with his father. Our Lord was not simply God’s servant— He was His Son. “…though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience…” (Hebrews 5:8). If we are consciously aware that we are being mastered, that idea itself is proof that we have no master. If that is our attitude toward Jesus, we are far away from having the relationship He wants with us. He wants us in a relationship where He is so easily our Master and Teacher that we have no conscious awareness of it— a relationship where all we know is that we are His to obey.

    Wisdom From Oswald Chambers

  88. Beloved says:

    When led by the Holy Spirit, as all true believers are, its so easy. Which way the wind blows no one knows but the Father, and He will use us to reach His intended target. Unwittingly, like a babe in arms, but awareness soon comes and we can give God all the glory.

  89. jeff1 says:

    Precious Lord, take my hand
    Lead me on, let me stand
    I’m tired, I’m weak, I’m alone
    Through the storm, through the night
    Lead me on to the light
    Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home

    When my way grows drear precious linger near
    When my light is almost gone
    Hear my cry, hear my call
    Hold my hand lest I fall
    Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home

    When the darkness appears and the night draws near
    And the day is past and gone
    At the river I stand
    Guide me feet, hold my hand
    Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home

    Precious Lord, take my hand
    Lead me on, let me stand
    I’m tired, I’m weak, I’m alone
    Through the storm, through the night
    Lead me on to the light
    Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home
    (Lead me home)

  90. Beloved says:

    Deuteronomy 4:31 NLT
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon you or destroy you or forget the solemn covenant he made with your ancestors.

  91. street says:

    1 Corinthians 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
    12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

    2 Peter 2:18-20
    18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.

  92. poohpity says:

    Does anyone really understand grace at all or what is considered legalism?

  93. street says:

    legalism is death.

    21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

  94. Beloved says:

    Grace is what God gives to those who place their faith in Jesus Christ alone.

  95. Beloved says:

    Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

  96. foreverblessed says:

    A new commandment I give you:
    Love one another as I have loved you

    The old one was:
    Love others as you love yourself

    John 13:34
    Love God with all your heart and mind and soul,
    stands unchanged

  97. foreverblessed says:

    Grace is also trust!
    We trust Jesus so totally, that we need not worry about our own welfare:
    We have Jesus as Lord and Master, and we know that we know that whatever happens to us He is in control.

    I have to say, I have not yet reached that full.trust, I still worry, struggle.

    But I am convinced that the Holy Spirit bwill training me to become like that.

    Loving others as Jesus has loved me, that goes far beyond loving others as I love myself.
    When I have found Jesus as my Lord and Master and Teacher
    ( that is a good one of Oswald Chambers, Sep 22, hard to get: ” if I feel I am being mastered by Jesus, then I am not yet there” ouch)

    If I know that God loves me, so deep a love, that He gave His only begotten Son… then All is well with my soul.
    I do not have to see to it that I do not love others more than myself….
    The New has come:
    I can love others as Jesus has loved me.

    So I can search how much Jesus has loved me, and in what way He has loved me.

  98. poohpity says:

    Grace is trust?

    How many of you look down on a fellow Christian let’s say if they smoke? Yet people quote C.S. Lewis or Spurgeon and they both smoked.

    How about if someone has a drink of wine? How about if someone dances or goes to movies or does not dress like you think they should?

    Grace is something we experience. It is accepting the fact that our sins have been forgiven, paid for and thus we act in a certain way because of that belief. So we treat others the way we want to be treated, we want forgiveness, we want mercy, we want to be shown love. We do not want to be gossiped about or slandered or lied about because we know that words kill deep within our souls even more so than actions.

    One can quote all the bible verses you want or people who teach about legalism vs grace but if you have not experienced God’s grace all that is is words. What happened on that day when you realized you had been forgiven for all that you have done or will ever do because God thinks enough of you to want you to spend eternity with Him, not only eternity but each and everyday you are alive. He wants you to know Him as He knows you.

    So when Paul says; ” For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don’t use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love. For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another.” That was said by one who experienced and understood grace then lived it.

  99. jeff1 says:

    When I doubt in whom do I take refuge?
    When I falter in whom do I take refuge?
    When I fail in whom do I take refuge?
    When I wander in whom do I take refuge?

    Whose love do I cling to when all around me seems lost.

    I cannot love myself as Jesus loves me as it is in my unworthiness that I see my need of His love.

    Legalism show me just how lost I am.

    Without Him I could do nothing
    Without Him I’d surely fail
    Without Him I would be drifting
    Like a ship without a sail

    without Him I would be dying
    Without Him I’d be enslaved
    Without Him life would be worthless
    But with Jesus thank God I’m saved

    Oh Jesus, oh Jesus
    Do you know Him today
    Please don’t turn Him away
    Oh Jesus, my Jesus
    Without Him how lost I would be
    Without Him how lost I would be

  100. poohpity says:

    So for the people who think, “I have not done anything that bad or because I was brought up in a Christian home so I am morally good” does not believe in what God says or will never come to realize or experience the amazing grace they have been shown. They will be just like the Pharisee that said, “‘I thank you, God, that I am not like other people—cheaters, sinners, adulterers. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’” He bases his goodness on what he does, comparing himself with others, then looks down on them but fails to see the pride that wells up inside while the one who recognizes who they are by God’s standards, they understand grace.

  101. poohpity says:

    Legalism can not show us how lost we are because to the legalist they are not lost nor do they need a Savior and often think they have it all together morally, no room for improvement.

  102. poohpity says:

    It is not about worthiness because God feels that all human beings are worthwhile or He would not have left heaven to bring salvation to the world. It is about deserving what Jesus did and no we do not deserve that, that is why it is called grace.

  103. jeff1 says:

    I have to recognise my unworthiness in order to see my need of grace or I am legalistic.

    I am His or I am lost there is no half measure with God.

  104. poohpity says:

    I do not think we are to think of our unworthiness that is a form of pride which is thinking to highly or to lowly of ourselves. BUT To think of it as deserving or undeserving is to recognize our need. It is the difference in apples and oranges. God thinks we are worthy or worthwhile or He would not have pursued us at all.

  105. jeff1 says:

    I trust God because He has brought me to my knees in showing me my own unworthiness as I failed miserably to keep His laws.

    If I can trust God to do right by me then I can trust God to do right by others.

    God saves me from myself and in doing so gives me a heart of gratefulness for His mercy and grace.

    It is in knowing that I stop treating others differently and see that we are all God’s children some just more blinded than others.

  106. Beloved says:

    I do not think we are to think of our unworthiness that is a form of pride which is thinking to highly or to lowly of ourselves.

    Could you give me scripture that supports this? Thanks

  107. jeff1 says:

    If I had never seen my unworthiness I would not have seen my need of a Saviour and I would have been both blinded and lost.

    It is not about what you or I think in terms of words we use but about how God works.

    It was when I seen my unworthiness that I received God’s mercy and that brought me closer to Him.

    I am never nearer to God than when I am on my knees because that is what keeps me humble for the flesh is weak.

  108. street says:

    Or am I missing something?

    the Spirit of Christ

    missed opportunities are one thing and God is greater than our failures.

    missing the narrow gate is entirely a different matter.

    flesh and blood we are told can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but

    And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

    So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

    Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

    Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

    12 With his own blood—not the blood of goats and calves—he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

    13 Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer could cleanse people’s bodies from ceremonial impurity. 14 Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our consciences from sinful deeds so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins.

    11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

    buried in baptism, death, raised in new life, by the Spirit of Christ. free to worship, free to love in Spirit and truth

    3 For our exhortation does not come from error or impurity or by way of deceit; 4 but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who examines our hearts. 5 For we never came with flattering speech, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed—God is witness—

    14 Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,

  109. street says:

    “Before Jesus became our Lord, Savior, and greatest Treasure, we were in greater danger against a greater enemy with even more at stake. Pressing in behind us were a horde of demons, tempting, accusing, deceiving. Before us, the sea of our sin and all its consequences — an eternity of torment apart from God. We had no weapons with which to fight, and we had no idea how to swim. We were lodged between deaths.” desiring God

    made alive in Christ.

    25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” 27 She *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.”

    Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

    consuming fire comes to mind here. you will pass through the fire but it will not hurt you. is your heart in heaven with Christ? Ephasians 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart [x]may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the [y]saints, 19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might 20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

    13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off [j]have been brought near [k]by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the [l]barrier of the dividing wall, 15 [m]by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might [n]make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, [o]by it having put to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the [p]saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy [q]temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

  110. street says:

    my pride sin body of flesh my spirit of sin crucified with Christ at calvary. made alive in Christ in His resurrection. Pentecost a new Spirit new life in Christ.

    paul met Jesus on the road. he was raised up. he could say i know nothing but Christ crucified and i am crucified with Christ i no long live, but Christ lives in me. the old master died and he had been joined to Another. God is most glorified when we are most satisfied with Him. mastered by love not self. took paul awhile to get to know his new Master. i remind you He’s infinite and eternal. just like His love. do not put God to the test.

    6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so [a]prove to be My disciples.

  111. street says:

    thinking about the winery picture. seeing the barn and barrels and all the work that went into them and the vineyard, patient work. all for a glass of wine? for one glass? maybe for many? for life, for true life. poured out, no other way. he who tries to save his life will lose it, he who loses his life shall find it.
    Hebrews 2:11
    For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

  112. poohpity says:

    Our worth to God is in every page of scripture. Why would God bother with us at all unless we were important to Him? Remembering there is not one without sin while we are in this flesh.

    Eph 2:4-7 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

  113. Beloved says:

    Yes i see, we are MADE worthy because of Christ Jesus. He always loved us, but our filthiness (sin) made us abhorrent to His holiness. Oh Jesus thank you, (I thank Him daily) for making me clean through Your blood. And not only me but all of us here!

  114. jeff1 says:

    The great news of the Gospel that God’s love does not change and that it is encompassing and not limited and selective.

    The nearer I get to God the greater my love for all.

    It is so high
    (So high you can’t get over it)
    So wide
    (So wide you can’t get around it)
    So low
    (So low you can’t get under it)
    Great God Almighty
    (You must come in at the door)

    (Chorus:)
    Oh it is high
    (So high you can’t get over it)
    It is wide
    (So wide you can’t get around it)
    So low
    (So low you can’t get under it)
    You might at well..
    (You must come in at the door)

    (Verse 1)
    Well I went down in the valley
    You know I didn’t go there to stay
    My soul got happy in the valley
    You know I stayed right there all day

    (Chorus)
    Oh it is high
    (So high you can’t get over it)
    It is wide
    (So wide you can’t get around it)
    So low
    (You can’t get under it)
    You might as well..
    You must come in at the door

    Verse 2
    Well I ain’t been to heaven
    But I’m told
    The streets the streets are pearls
    You know the mighty mighty gates are gold

    (Chorus)
    Well it is high
    (So high you can’t get over it)
    It is wide
    (So wide you cant get around it)
    So low
    (So low you can’t get under it)
    You might as well come in at the door

  115. Beloved says:

    We are created in His own image, no wonder He loves us so!

  116. poohpity says:

    No, not made worthy because of Christ but we were already worthy and valuable to God and that is why He sent Jesus. Look at creation! God did not create this world for Himself, He created it for us who have flesh and blood even knowing we would hide from Him and be rebellious. In the new Jerusalem who will have different bodies that are able to bare eternity and will not decay.

    People who feel they have to earn love, do not seem to understand how God can love us without us doing anything but believe that He does and accept it. The song Jesus loves me does not say if I do so and so but because the bible tells me so.

  117. poohpity says:

    He just loves us because of WHO HE IS, period.

  118. Beloved says:

    I think pride says I deserved to be saved.

  119. street says:

    4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

    just like esau and isaac before they did anything one was chosen. one loved and one hated. His love is a marvelous thing. God is Sovereign over all we can only boast in Christ. you can boast in self….can your right hand save you? no other name by which a souls must be saved. the struggle is over Sovereignty. Jesus came that we would be saved and have peace. the death and resurrection of Christ put an end to sin, so that we may live in with and for Christ. the whole earth is filled with His Glory! some things pass away and some things never pass away. certainly the boast of man will pass away in the presents of God. to some the praise and worship of God forever doesn’t seem right. i remember two angles who never tired of this and their voices shook the foundation of the threshold of Temple of God. our foundation must be Christ, unshakable. within the vale
    wherever your treasure is so is your heart.

  120. Beloved says:

    On this we can all be on the same page…

    Titus 3
    Saved in Order to Do Good
    3 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.

    3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

    9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

  121. poohpity says:

    street, do you mean Esau and Jacob? Isaac was their dad.

  122. street says:

    24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

  123. Beloved says:

    Legalists Anonymous

    Rules In a nutshell:

    Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

    James, half brother of our Savior.

  124. Beloved says:

    poohpity says:
    September 24, 2018 at 6:48 am
    Grace is trust?

    How many of you look down on a fellow Christian let’s say if they smoke? Yet people quote C.S. Lewis or Spurgeon and they both smoked.

    During their era most everyone smoked, but since the 60’s we now know that its very dangerous to health. I dont judge someone who smokes because i myself smoked for 10 years but quit when I became a Christian. My converted conscience and the help of a good doctor convinced me, but it was very very hard for me. Addiction is real and takes a while to change the brain. Time, sometimes it just takes time. yet there is grace enough for anything to change.

  125. poohpity says:

    My point in mentioning it was because it did not effect their relationship with God unlike alcohol does. Eph 5:18 NLT or 1 Cor 5:11 NLT There are many warnings in both testaments about the effects of over drinking because people do not behavior the same way when they are sober as they do when drinking, right?

  126. poohpity says:

    Smoking is more of a social issue then it is about causing a change in the person’s mental abilities and behaviors which alcohol does.

  127. poohpity says:

    Legalism also causes problems in our relationship with God and others as does pride which is synonymous with legalism.

  128. Beloved says:

    Right. My point was that smoking is a health issue and since our bodies are temples we do our best to keep these dying corpses well, however like street mentioned we strive for holiness but will never be perfectly holy as Paul talked about in Romans 7.

  129. poohpity says:

    Actually legalism pushes people away from even knowing God or pointing people to God because people are more focused at what they are doing than on what God has done for us.

  130. Beloved says:

    That was the problem the Pharisees had.

  131. jeff1 says:

    Where I’m Headed That Counts

    I could take the time and tell you lots of places I’ve been
    I could even talk about the days I wasted in sin
    Jesus put that all behind me washed me clean as a fount where I’ve been is not important it’s where I’m headed that counts.

    Well where I’ve been is not important it’s where I’m headed that counts I’ve left footprints in the valley now I’m back on the mount heaven waits me over yonder I’m not turning around where I’ve been is not important it’s where I’m heading that counts.

    Satan would trouble me with things I had done tell me Jesus couldn’t love me I’m not even His son but when I think of how
    He saved me I’m so glad that I could shout where I’ve been is not important its where I’m heading that counts.

    Well where I’ve been is not important it’s where I’m headed that counts I’ve left footprints in the valley now I’m back on the mount heaven waits me over yonder I’m not turning around where I’ve been is not important its where I’m heading that counts.

    Oh I’m going to a city where there is no fear nor pain and we shall live forever and Christ my Saviour reigns heaven waits me over yonder I’m not turning around where I’ve been is not important its where I’m heading that counts.

    Well where I’ve been is not important its where I’m heading that counts. I’ve left footprints in the valley now I’m back on the mount heaven waits me over yonder I’m not turning around where I’ve been is not important its where I’m heading that counts. Where I’ve been is not important its where I’m heading that counts.

  132. Beloved says:

    I like the song Viv!

  133. street says:

    we strive for holiness …..the moment we discover God.

    God said be Holy for I Am Holy.

    therefor a Savior, Christ the LORD.

    thinking of jacob at bethel and then his return to the promise land, walking with a limp.

  134. foreverblessed says:

    Dear beloved, yes I agree fully on the verses you gave on Sept 24, 1.50 pm!
    And the verses Street gave are one big hallulujah for Jesus!

    ( I am so glad that there are laws now on smoking in our country, when I was younger, the air in public places was full of thick smoke, polluting the air we all had to breath in. So it was very much a social issue. I read an article that 500 years ago when the Spaniards brought tabacco from America, when it became a new thing in Europe, that physicians were warning for the danger, for the lungs, for the smoke that was not healthy for young children to breath in.)

    Everything will be made new, the first thing Jesus makes new is our heart:
    We are a new person in Christ.
    That new person grows when we look up to Jesus, when we obey what He says,
    And the old person, we have to kill it, Oswald Chambers says: we ourselves will have to stop the thoughts of the old man, the Spirit will not do that for us

  135. foreverblessed says:

    Anyway, I can only witness what happened in my own life.
    I had a Christian upbringing in a fundamentalistic church:
    You obey God by keeping the 10 commandments, and more regulations of the Torah, Lev 23, even the food laws.
    Full life was gained by keeping the 10, Bible studies were made on how well the 10 were, how they touched every aspect of life. And how happy the world would be, when we all would obey them.
    And once a year, on Nissan 14, we would keep the Passover, with washing of the feet, remembering that Jesus had died for our sins. But if you were careful in obeying you would not have to hurt Jesus more in die-ing for you (to die, die-ing or ..)
    I remember that I read in my Bible:
    But grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and forever.
    2 Peter 3:18

    And I remember asking God: what does this mean? For this has a deeper meaning than I could grasp.

    God is so good!
    He had listened to my question, and He kept it in His heart till the time was there to enlighten me.

    For being in a church is also a social thing, for me it was, my whole life was involved in it, all my family was in it, my friends, many activities.

    God ones that every one who follows rules will get tired in the end, burn-out. Run dry.
    And so it was!
    My heart ran dry!

    Keeping the commandments do not fill my heart to the full.
    I cried out to God and said: I have misunderstood Your Word, I have misinterpreted the Bible, I want Jesus, save me from this miserable life.

    And there God answered me.
    I heard a real voice, a Voice calling me, that everything would be allright, that He was going with me.

    Jesus is my Lord and Teacher.
    He will guide me from one step to another.
    And I have the feeling that what He is doing is more like the Beatitudes
    Matthew 5:1-12
    And the first step, poor in spirit, was when I said: I don’t know what the Bible teaches, but You God, You know
    Matt 5:4 blessed are those who mourn
    And I was comforted for many many years, I just stayed on that verse so to speak.

    The teaching of Oswald Chambers brought me here, ten years ago.

    Stern teaching, but I understood,
    Phil 3:1-16
    He had lost all, but he had gained Christ!

  136. foreverblessed says:

    God ones- should be: God knows
    God knows that people get exhausted when they focus on keeping the commandments.

    It is the story of the two sons:
    God waits till the younger son gets tired of his wild life, doing what he himself desires.
    And God waits for the older son, till he really wants the intimacy of being one with the Father.
    It is all about a close relationship with our Maker, our Father in heaven.
    Jesus reconnects us with God, the ministry of reconciliation.

  137. SFDBWV says:

    Not certain why Mart picked a Spanish winery picture, but it reminded me of the Spanish Inquisition where people were tortured to death in the most cruelest fashion in the name of “Christianity” in order to convert and purge non-believers, especially the Jew.

    “Those who bless you I will bless, those who curse you I will cure”

    It is a historical fact that after the treatment of the Jew in Spain during the Inquisition it, as a world power, soon faded from the world scene.

    “Jesus the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.”

    What happens in the Book of Revelation? First the “Church” is judged then the world at large, every living thing pays the price for disobedience and rebellion against God, from the beginning.

    1/3 of all flesh dies, 1/3 of the oceans, of trees of all life dies. Killed by the wrath of God. Poured out at the hands of “The Lamb of God”.

    The dead from Adam unto the last are raised up either to eternal paradise or eternal punishment.

    All because of what else except disobedience to the directives from God, and rejection of His Son as Messiah.

    Is God then, an “anonymous legalist”?

    58 and rain.

  138. SFDBWV says:

    Revelation 22:19 KJV “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophesy God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

    Of course in my above comment I meant to write “curse” instead of “cure”, but a very interesting typo at the least.

    Steve

  139. poohpity says:

    There was only One who was able to live in complete obedience to the law that was Jesus who was God in the flesh. Simply that was the evidence to who He actually was because no human being was able to which pointed us to Jesus, our salvation.

    If one knows the definition of words like “holy” which means “set apart”. We can use Christian ease without really understanding the words we speak that may make us look religious but do not show that we have a real relationship with God which has been the point from the beginning.

    It seems the purpose of the church was to grow in our knowledge of the Lord, have accountability, worship and remember by the elements what Christ did, then go out into the world and carry His message and serve (do good).

    I do not know about you Steve but I will not be judged at the end of the world for rebellion or disobedience because Jesus will stand up for me but I will be rewarded for the good things I have done.

    For those who live by the law they will be judged by the law for those who live by grace and do good they will receive eternal life and rewards.

  140. poohpity says:

    My punishment for rebellion and disobedience was already paid for by the blood of the Lamb.

  141. jeff1 says:

    Beloved, I like the song too. The one thing I learned from the evil in my country was that it was steeped in the past and so to where the minds of those of us who lived it.

    I don’t believe it is healthy nor that God intended it because if we don’t learn from the mistakes of the past then we are doomed to repeat them.

    When we miss God’s intention then we blame God but it is never God is to blame.

    God is still misunderstood today and when I think back to His crucifixion the disciples misunderstood that He was psyching Himself up for it.

    While He tells them directly what must happen to Him they are busy themselves asking annoying questions and sending out messages to the wrong cities. When they try to ‘look good’ in front of each other, vying for rank and attention (and after MANY such attempts) Jesus silences them all with the line in question.

    Am I listening to God or not as failure to do so results in doubt and waywardness and I have been down this road before and it has lead me right back to Jesus!

    It seems to me that God has very much got my back!

    I think it is us who expect God to be an “anonymous legalist” but that is because we are very much like His disciples in overthinking about our own predicament rather than listening to God.

  142. poohpity says:

    “Seems to me that if Paul’s letter to the Galatians is any indication—the danger has always been to selectively hide behind rules of law, while condemning one another in ways that rob us of the sanity, freedom, honesty, and concern for one another that recovering jurists and amateur prosecutors now find in the Spirit of Jesus (Gal 5:22-23).”

  143. poohpity says:

    Jurists = Judges

    Amateur prosecutors = a person who institutes legal proceedings against someone

  144. poohpity says:

    James 2: Yes indeed, it is good when you obey the royal law as found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 9 But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law. 10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws. 11 For the same God who said, “You must not commit adultery,” also said, “You must not murder.” So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law. 12 So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free. 13 There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you. 14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? 17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless. 18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” 19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?

  145. poohpity says:

    Legalism = James 3: 13 If you are wise and understand God’s ways, prove it by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you are bitterly jealous and there is selfish ambition in your heart, don’t cover up the truth with boasting and lying. 15 For jealousy and selfishness are not God’s kind of wisdom. Such things are earthly, unspiritual, and demonic. 16 For wherever there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there you will find disorder and evil of every kind. 17 But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and the fruit of good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere. 18 And those who are peacemakers will plant seeds of peace and reap a harvest of righteousness.

  146. street says:

    legalism vs The Eternal
    thinking about the Apostles coming back from their first stint working with each other in the vineyard and how they were happy that even the demons obeyed them. Jesus reminded them their happiness should not be in themselves in the temporal circumstance of the present, but rejoice that their names are written in Heaven, the eternal. a place where ones joy can not be taken from them. Jesus reminded them that days were coming that they would long for one of the days that Jesus walked the earth. difficult days will come, but we are not to lose the pearl of greatest price.
    7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. 8 We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed.

    we are His and not our own, the temperal vs the Eternal
    this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.
    24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

    through Jesus Christ our Lord

  147. street says:

    It seems the purpose of the church was to grow in our knowledge of the Lord, have accountability, worship and remember by the elements what Christ did, then go out into the world and carry His message and serve (do good).

    thinking the Church, Body of Christ, made of many members is being built into a Temple where God lives and rest in unchanging restful state. this is where Revelation reveals the temple is done away with because God resides with Man, the Glory of God. a living Temple for the Living God.

  148. Beloved says:

    We cannot earn Gods blessing, He loves us because we are His children.

    1 John 2:1
    My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

  149. street says:

    trying to find the verse that said people who lived apart from the law died apart from the law and the people who lived under the law died under the law. for those who are in Christ shall never die. do you believe this? from the conversation with lazrus sister before he raised him up.
    Living by Faith Hope and Love.

    James says Faith has results
    Hope says, who Hopes for what they already have?
    Love says, who loves what they can not see?

    we are told that Moses saw it from afar and rejoiced to see that day. thinking of the day moses found himself standing in the promise land in the presents of Jesus with elisha peter james and john. seems to me he made it! waiting in fruitful service? by faith.

  150. Beloved says:

    The holiness of God defeats our pride. RC Sproul

    Street Romans 7:9 ?

  151. street says:

    Light drives out darkness and Light shines out of darkness. the darkness comprehends it not. flee from darkness ignorance dead works sin common sense. Jesus says, “come to Me and I will give you rest……”

  152. foreverblessed says:

    Romans 2:12
    All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

  153. street says:

    BINGO!

  154. Beloved says:

    Reading further Paul comes to this conclusion which explains a “need”??? for Legalists Anonymous?? Good stuff in that chapter.
    28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by the Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise[c] from God, not from people.

  155. street says:

    Thank you, i thought it was in Romans. i do a lot of searches on BibleGateWay and i go crazy when i can not find a verse and i know its there somewhere, but the words i use or misspell don’t help me find it. i have found other verses that have been a tremendous blessing in the process of meditation and research of the wonders of the Word.
    i read through Romans 2…..28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

  156. street says:

    i keep coming to these “Therefore’s” and wonder what did i forget or miss this time? therefore a time to review.

  157. poohpity says:

    Learning what the bible teaches takes many years and as long as you have a couple of words right or the concept when you search the verse will come up but if you are not that familiar with the bible doing a google search may be a better place to search.

  158. poohpity says:

    With all the bible verses shared is anyone even close to understanding what legalism is? The most important part; if you do realize what it is, do you struggle with it?(step one) If so then one can go to step 2.

  159. Beloved says:

    i have found other verses that have been a tremendous blessing in the process of meditation and research of the wonders of the Word.

    My all time favorite verses are these: Matthew 11:28-30 New International Version (NIV)
    28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

    After meditating on those verses for the past hour I saw this on FB: The trees are about to show us how lovely it is to let things go. (unknown)

    I will never again look at trees the same, fall has always been my favorite anyway. Winter should be great!

  160. jeff1 says:

    This song was written by Paul McCartney after he had a dream about his mother who had died of cancer when he was fourteen.

    He said he was very blessed to have had the dream and when asked in an interview about the dream he said that his mother had told him “it will be all right, just let it be.”

    Thinking of how trusting God often comes down to this.

    Love the song and the idea that it was inspired by his mum.

    Let It Be

    When I find myself in times of trouble
    Mother Mary comes to me
    Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
    And in my hours of darkness she is standing right in front of me
    Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
    Let it be, let it be, let it be,
    Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

    And when the broken hearted people
    Living in the world agree
    There will be an answer, let it be.
    For though they may be parted there is still a chance that they will see
    There will be an answer, let it be.
    Let it be, let it be, let it be,
    There will be an answer, let it be.

    And when the night is cloudy
    There is still a light that shines on me
    Shine until tomorrow, let it be.
    I wake up to the sound of music
    Mother Mary comes to me
    Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
    Let it be, let it be, let it be,
    There will be an answer, let it be.

  161. poohpity says:

    Beloved that reminded me of 2 Cor 5:17. Striving to change when it is the Lord’s work in us that results in our newness or change. I can’t but God can. God seems to take that which we cling to in the flesh and makes all things in our hearts new.

    Gal 5: Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Compared to the things the Spirit produces in our lives

    Gal 5: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

  162. poohpity says:

    Viv, that song would be great if Mother Mary could do any of those things but she can’t, she was only human and made mistakes just like the rest of us. She doubted, questioned, got angry, etc. just like every other human being. Jesus died for her too!

  163. poohpity says:

    Luke 2: 48 His parents didn’t know what to think. “Son,” his mother said to him, “why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been frantic, searching for you everywhere.”

    49 “But why did you need to search?” he asked. “Didn’t you know that I must be in my Father’s house?”

  164. Beloved says:

    Viv that is a lovely, soulful song of remembrance.

  165. Beloved says:

    “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.

    Jesus too longs for us and our well being.

  166. poohpity says:

    In the first churches they had problems with legalism too.

    Acts 15: But then some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and insisted, “The Gentile converts must be circumcised and required to follow the law of Moses.” 6 So the apostles and elders met together to resolve this issue. 7 At the meeting, after a long discussion, Peter stood and addressed them as follows: “Brothers, you all know that God chose me from among you some time ago to preach to the Gentiles so that they could hear the Good News and believe. 8 God knows people’s hearts, and he confirmed that he accepts Gentiles by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he cleansed their hearts through faith. 10 So why are you now challenging God by burdening the Gentile believers with a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors were able to bear? 11 We believe that we are all saved the same way, by the undeserved grace of the Lord Jesus.”

  167. SFDBWV says:

    “…selectively hide behind rules of law, while condemning one another…”

    There are two specific current news stories here in the USA which for me bring to the surface a great deal of emotion as well as a challenge to being “pure” Christian.

    Christianity at large is looked at by “outsiders” as being hypocritical in everything. People who think they have the “pure Christian doctrine” are seen as hypocritical by other Christians, and most Christians aren’t sure what they are supposed to “feel” as a result.

    When I look at the throng of women who are happy to see Bill Cosby’s life ruined and go to jail I wonder where is their pity, their forgiveness, their, if any are, Christianity?

    When I am forced to watch the destruction of a man for political purposes, and women who believe him guilty only by accusation gather in mobs of political demonstrations.

    I am sickened by it all and wonder where has reason, common sense, and Christian love gone?

    Right here amongst us people’s views are condemned by others, while hiding behind some law by their own interpretation of Scripture.

    Their interpretation becoming their own “law”.

    We have discussed for years the difference between law and grace, and grace is always the winner. However there are consequences for breaking the law, both literally and eternally.

    If you don’t believe there is punishment of sins (law) then no one anywhere will be sent to hell and all of the Scripture verses that refer to it are just simply misunderstood.

    Still overthinking and worse adding to.

    Steve

  168. street says:

    been listening to the voices of the different talent shows on the net. some have been quite shocking and revolting. even so by repetition they grow on you. one song is best when it ended. they will all become quiet before God. one time job was asked to speak before God and he said,
    3 Then Job answered the Lord and said,
    4
    “Behold, I am insignificant; what can I reply to You?
    I lay my hand on my mouth.
    5
    “Once I have spoken, and I will not answer;
    Even twice, and I will add nothing more.”

    Ecclesiastes 7:5
    It is better to listen to the rebuke of a wise man Than for one to listen to the song of fools.

    job did finally did speak when God asked him.
    42 Then Job answered the Lord and said,

    2
    “I know that You can do all things,
    And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
    3
    ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’
    Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand,
    Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.”
    4
    ‘Hear, now, and I will speak;
    I will ask You, and You instruct me.’
    5
    “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear;
    But now my eye sees You;
    6
    Therefore I retract,
    And I repent in dust and ashes.”

  169. street says:

    Work willingly at whatever you do, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people (Colossians 3:23). the righteous shall live by faith.

    Romans 2 how not to live.

  170. jeff1 says:

    Pooh’s post Sept 26th 7.42 am

    This song is a remembrance song written by Paul McCartney after he had a dream inspired by his mother.

    The message in his mother’s dream which was “it will be all right, just let it be” was a comfort to him at a difficult time in his life.

    That he used Mother Mary in the song is not relevant but a metaphor for his mother.

    I used the song because I happen to think the wording is so spot on in that “it will be all right, just let it be” is trusting God rather than overthinking and coming to the wrong conclusions when things go wrong.

    Thank you Beloved for understanding my intention.

  171. SFDBWV says:

    Viv how frustrating it is for me not to be able to protect you from ignorant behavior. Just let me say that the song “Let it Be” is a marvelous song and enjoyed for decades by millions, including me.

    There are plenty of “Nazis” in this world.

    Pay them no attention and they have no stage whereby to spew their venom.

    Steve

  172. jeff1 says:

    Yes, there will be an answer, as God has the answer whether I see it or not.

    It is in the moments that I see the hand of God that strengthens my faith when I don’t.

    I do not always see God work in my life and why hope in Christ is often sustaining my faith.

    I am not faithful in my own strength but in God’s strength as He doesn’t forsake me and that is the mystery of God that I cannot leave His presence.

    Romans 8:38
    No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

  173. Beloved says:

    I found the sermon “Abusing The Goodness of God (Romans 2:1-5)” on YouTube extremely helpful.
    I thought of Jesus teaching to the Pharisees that even our THOUGHTS of evil are as sinful as our deeds. That certainly trumps the written laws.

  174. Beloved says:

    Ha ha Romans 2 begins with “therefore” street. like you said, what did I miss, or forget??? I love reading scripture over and over because there is so much I DO tend to forget stuff. Like when I finished 4 years of bible college I thought well, now I know less than ever about the bible. Oh but its so fun to rediscover as well as discover the richness and goodness of our faith in our Great God!

  175. poohpity says:

    Viv, thank you for sharing the story behind “Let It Be” and the reference to “Mother Mary” not being about the virgin Mary but left to however the listener wants to apply it. I have admitted since this topic started that I do have legalistic tendencies, never denied that.

    Just like I question what is meant by “Pure Christianity” never heard of such a thing ever so I looked it up and found an explanation based on James 1:27 ” “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” Not by living a cloistered life like monks do but by the actions that a Christian takes to help those less fortunate. “For him, a pure Christian is one who, while seeking to live as close to the Lord as possible, is also out there wherever you find the hurting and broken, the poor and needy, the orphan and the widow. A pure and faultless Christian is one who is involved where there is tragedy, poverty and need.”

  176. street says:

    we are told in 1 Chronicles 15:16
    David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their fellow Levites as musicians to make a joyful sound with musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals.

    Psalm 100 Shout for joy to the Lord, all the earth. Worship the Lord with gladness; come before him with joyful songs. Know that the Lord is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture. …

    Psalm 144:9
    I will sing a new song to you, my God; on the ten-stringed lyre I will make music to you,

    i may not have a ten-sting or even seen one, but i do have a voice a heart soul and mind. how much more valuable then a ten-sting? did grace come to end?

    God’s mercy is new every mourning, thinking a new song would be better then the one the day before.

    Ephesians 5:19
    speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;

    when the debate is over and we are still then we can worship the Lord properly, in Spirit and Truth, in a wilderness.

  177. Beloved says:

    John 17:15-20 New International Version (NIV)
    15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by[a] the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

  178. jeff1 says:

    I appreciate your caring Steve as it is so much in you to do and share your frustration but I am learning that not everyone who believes they follow Jesus behave as if they do and so focusing on Jesus is the best antidote to someone who repeatedly offends.

    Thank you for all your encouragement and concern which to me is what pleases God building each other up because I have had enough of those who choose judgemental verses of scripture to their own ends as I have lived in a country where it was practised all to often and have come to recognise it for what it is self righteousness rather than Godly righteousness.

    You are one of the good guys Steve, as was my dad and the world is a better place for having caring people in it.

    That is what is important in a world like this one and I feel safer for knowing there are people like you still around so God bless you all today and always.

  179. poohpity says:

    Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black on judging, lol.

  180. jeff1 says:

    Thinking of the truths in these quotes from C.S. Lewis.

    There is someone I love even though I don’t approve of what he does.
    There is someone I accept though some of his thoughts and actions revolt me.
    There is someone I forgive though he hurts the people I love the most.
    That person is …..me

    The fact that our heart yearns for something Earth can’t supply is proof that Heaven must be our home.

    If Christianity were something we were making up, of course we would make it easier. But it is not.

    God gives His gifts where he finds the vessel empty enough to receive them.

    Hardship often prepares an ordinary person for an extraordinary destiny.

    Christ says, ‘Give me all. I don’t want so much of your time and so much of your money and so much of your work: I want you…Hand over the whole natural self, all the desires which you think innocent as well as the ones you think wicked-the whole outfit. I will give you a new self instead. In fact, I will give you myself:my own will shall become yours.

    God knows our situation;He will not judge us as if we had no difficulties to overcome. What matters is the sincerity and perseverance of our will to overcome them.

    There are two kinds of love: we love wise and kind and beautiful people because we need them, but we love (or try to love) stupid and disagreeable people because they need us.
    This second kind is the more divine because that is how God loves us: not because we are lovable but because He is love, not because He needs to receive but He delights to give.

  181. poohpity says:

    Viv, do you believe what you just copied from C.S. Lewis? He certainly has a heart bent on knowing and understanding God, filled with the Spirit. He knows that if he shares scripture and the person reading it feels a conviction, that is coming from God if they are a believer not the person who shared it.

  182. jeff1 says:

    Very much so, I think He knows God very well.

    Quotations are not scripture are they! These are likely his thoughts on his beliefs on God and I would share these beliefs.

    He was a highly intelligent and insightful man and he sees God in ways I can not which is why I am drawn to his writings.

  183. street says:

    2 Corinthians 3:…..3 This “letter” is written not with pen and ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. It is carved not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts.

    4 We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ. 5 It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own. Our qualification comes from God. 6 He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.

    thinking of Matthew 5 and the craving/conforming of a human heart. rehab/redemption and the fruit of the Spirit. a work of God not man.

  184. street says:

    With all the bible verses shared is anyone even close to understanding what legalism is?

    thinking how close are we to God?
    how safe are we?
    do i hear His voice?
    do i recognize his voice?
    did i do what He asked me to do?
    when was the last time i heard Him?
    thinking of abraham and the years that passed between visits. we are told He shows up when we least expect Him. moses was an interesting person anytime he needed help he when to the tent of meeting, unless he was following the cloud. thinking about john the baptist here and the least in the Kingdom.
    Jeremiah 31:33
    “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord. “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
    thank God for Pentecost just as the body is dead without the spirit so is Word without the Spirit. crucified with Christ, made alive in Christ, given a new Spirit. born again. conformed to the image of Christ. rejoice! hidden in clay jars?

    thinking you can teach a man law, but you can not change his spots. only God can do that. trust Him and love Him. we know Who we are following. do we know what to expect from whom we follow? i wonder if conflict is from missed expectations from people. yet we are told “I will put my instructions deep within them,” if i remember right God made judas and pharaoh. not outside God’s control. may we be found faithful. an audience of ONE

  185. street says:

    26 And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. 27 And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers[l] in harmony with God’s own will. 28 And we know that God causes everything to work together[m] for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. 29 For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn[n] among many brothers and sisters. 30 And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.

  186. street says:

    Legalists Anonymous

    the struggle to be Holy.

  187. foreverblessed says:

    What do we know about….
    Salvation, Christ’love, Kingdom of God, legalism

    Instead of knowing good from evil (the tree of good and evil) I have to find out:

    WHO is the GOOD one,

    Who is the Chosen, the One who saves the World.

    And in trust follow Him, He knows the way, the truth and the life, In fact He IS the Life.

    Being a christian is going to the water, and burning my own boat, and walking on water, having my eyes fixed on Jesus. ( Maarten Luther paraphrased by me)

    The morality of good and wrong is inside us, and that is not only for christians, as Romans 2:13-16 explains. It is good to have that good and evil morality. Nonetheless, but then we are still the least of the Kingdom, God wants unity with us, that we are all One in His Kingdom, meaning to save as many as is possible, in His way, not in my own way. Letting go of my own way, and letting God work in me. It is when I am not conscious of the influence God has through me on others that I am most effective, but when I am conscious, it is all about me.

    Following Jesus is abandoning all, not knowing where we are going, but only knowing the One we follow. All Oswalds teachings is about this. Not holding to our own lives, but being sure we are in His will, doing His will, our will being transformed into His will, so mine and His are One.

    And Jesus’ teachings are very stern, and so are Oswalds’, not a good feeling thing, but hard to follow. AS the one of today is stern. My Utmost Sept 27

    And about what rules to follow, what he writes is something I had figured out long ago: It is impossible to follow the teachings of Jesus, naturally speaking.
    My Utmost Sept 25

    I have been stressing the fact that Jesus’ command is a new one:
    NOT loving each others as we love ourselves, but loving others as He has loved us.
    When Paul was preaching against legalism, he cites the OT laws: as love others as yourself, he was teaching christians who were still so untrained in their New Life in Christ.

    Christ had been saying, if you follow Me, you forsake all, “even the slightest concern about your own life” as Oswald puts it, “You follow Jesus, and you trust Him that He takes care about your life, You are concentrating on the things He lays on your heart,”
    Paul was willing to be beaten up, put in prison, and he never did complain about it.

    Utmost February 2
    Our Lord never requires the same conditons for discipleship that He requires for salvation. We are condemned to salvation by the Cross, But discipleship has an option with it- IF anyone…. Luke 14:26-35

    But IF we follow Him, then He makes us broken bread an poured out wine.

    And having said this in my church housegroup I was greatly opposed:
    Saying that God wants us to love our neighbors as ourselves, that we should not love ourselves less than our neighbor.

    And in that way they nullify the teaching of Christ

    And so I do wholeheartedly agree with Mart, that legalism is hiding bhind laws,

    in this case, we prefer the OT golden rule of the Law: Love your neighbor as yourself.

    But again, this is heavy teaching, only for those who KNOW that they KNOW that they are dearly loved by Jesus, that their worth is IN Jesus, who do not care what others say about them, and if they are hurt, they take it to Jesus, and He deals with it on the Cross. All our old self being purged out of us, and the Newness of Life from Him filling us, to the full.

    And again: Maybe Jesus has two types of childeren,
    the ones who Call: Lord save me, and they are saved,
    and that’s it. Saved by the skin of their teeth
    and the ones who forsake all, and have a big fruit: Many people saved through the Spirit working through them, human vessels, broken as they may be, but Jesus working in them, and through them He is the Power,He is the Strength.

  188. foreverblessed says:

    The Old
    Love God with all your heart, and with all your strength, and with all your soul
    Love others as you love yourself

    The New
    God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son
    Love others as the Son has loved you

    This is me writing.

    ANyway, when I looked up the bible to find what Jesus said: How do you read the law?
    I found this:

    Whoever finds his life will lose it,
    and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it

    Matthew 10:39

    My sake, for the sake of the Son of God, who came to earth, to be part of the flesh, so as to redeem us from the kingdom of darkness, That One, the Chosen One the Godly One!

    And when I was looking up Col 1:13 in the biblegateway
    I found this:

    But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

    Matthew 6:33

    When we abandon all for Jesus, we gain all.
    A life in His Spirit.

  189. foreverblessed says:

    We can all agree on this
    (Ha ha, I took your line, Beloved, you are Beloved by the One who has chosen you from the beginning)

    Col 1:9-14
    For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives, 10 so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, 11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, 12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

  190. poohpity says:

    Viv, just because C.S, Lewis did not quote scripture verbatim does not mean that what he said did not come from scripture as anyone how has read them knows. How else would he have known those things, just grasp them out of the air?

  191. poohpity says:

    who has read them knows, not how, lol

    But yet people seem to believe those that teach things that are from from what scripture teaches as authoritative and true.

  192. poohpity says:

    far from what scripture teaches not, from from. Anyone who the Lord has touched their heart wants to grow in their knowledge of Him and that is accomplished from His Word, just like any one of us on this blog grows to know each other by the words they write.

  193. poohpity says:

    street, I guess the answer would then be NO! It is so much easier just to be honest and real. But many people would rather cover it over by more words or answering a question with a question than to be open and honest to deflect away from the reality.

  194. poohpity says:

    C.S. Lewis “faithfully got into the Bible each day, and it is clear from all he wrote that the Bible got into him….From the Scriptures, all that is essential to faith and practice is drawn.” If one wants to know what the bible meant to him then they might want to read about him, C.S. Lewis that is.

  195. poohpity says:

    C.S. Lewis concentrated on the NT which would seem to be the very reason his writings veered towards grace rather than legalism.

  196. poohpity says:

    We were given the book of Galatians to boldly proclaim the Good News, Gospel by revealing the difference in obedience to the law and a life of faith. Chapter 2 just about says it all, have you even read it?

  197. street says:

    dear mart as think of the differences of the old and the new i am beginning to understand why the constant law and grace theme. they are related.

    we began with law, to which brings fear.
    law brings discovery as to what we had become.
    law had it’s purpose and none of it will be lost till it
    accomplishes all it had been sent/intended to do.

    grace and mercy came under the law, fulfilling the law.
    grace brought a discovery of God! as to what we could be come. grace has it’s purpose too. to reveal God and make His presents and love possible in a human soul. to redeem man and complete the work God had begun.

    God became one of us because we wanted to be like Him and died. He died so we could understand we were already like Him, not ashamed to call them brothers. fearfully and wonderfully made, conformed to the image of Christ. we long for a completed work, but not lose sight that the harvest is on and He wants us here. to live in faith, hope, love.

    paul labored,agonized, till Christ was formed in those who heard his Gospel. live like a farmer. the seed is good. looking for good ground. thinking of John saying dear children keep yourselves from idols. man made efforts.

  198. jeff1 says:

    I have not read it but I learned from my dad that it was a life of faith that pleased God because by keeping his faith simple he didn’t complicate mine.

    He couldn’t have quoted you chapter or verses from the Bible but he did know whom to listen to when it came to following man made laws or following God given ones.

    My dad was not a self righteousness man yet he was surrounded by them and so what he taught me was that he did not have to be right because he knew that God was right.

    My dad did not seek fame nor fortune nor did he have expectations of others but firmly believed he was here to God’s will because his response to anything was either ‘if it pleases God or God willing.’

    My dad always had it in him to know that he was here for God’s purpose and not his own. He had a very stable Christian family upbringing.

    It’s that simple teaching that has gotten me this far and that is good enough for me, Pooh, as it was good enough for him.

    I didn’t always listen to my dad and consequently I have scars of the mind but he taught me the most important truth of the Gospel and that is that it is God who gets it right and not us.

  199. Beloved says:

    Street i was just going to write as I’ve been reading some of Maartin Luther’s writing on Galations as Forever brought up, that dear Maartin struggled greatly with law and grace in his personal life, as most all do. Its not so cut and dry for damaged human beings to be able to live in grace, its something we strive for though. (Interesting to me personally as the child of a psychopath he says the one without conscience is the one who struggles the least, however struggle greatly with laws.) The laws are good, they keep us all going in the right direction on the road way, laws of nature, gravity, reaping and sowing were all made by God as its His world, after all. He gives good things to ALL, no matter how good bad deserving etc.

    Frankly I’m tired of the topic since about the 3rd day, lol. And especially the no-win wrangling over grace/law by some posters. Blessings to all, And praying for the Kavanaugh hearings today.

  200. Beloved says:

    Legalists anonymous

    Life between heaven and earth.

  201. Beloved says:

    Sorry, I dont mean to offend anyone here, I’m understandingly upset listening to the hearings. Grace to all.

  202. street says:

    the struggle
    thinking of the greatest command.
    the greatest love.
    seems God’s work is finished at the cross.
    paul spoke, till Christ is formed in us.
    a love of the same nature as Christ’s.
    a new life by a new Spirit, not of the flesh/law
    Jesus did many things that flew in the face of mans law, but never deviated from God’s law. we can never say this for ourselves. receiving a righteousness from Christ by faith. this faith/righteousness is something that is put on. the transformation begins in earnest on the inside by God. for one purpose to keep the first and greatest command. James speaks of loving God whom you can not see and loving man whom you can see. a love that comes from God. i understand pagans can love, but it’s not like God’s love. a love that grows over time and multiplies. a love that deepens that has no breath height or width. not God, but like Him. thinking of Christ whom the fullness of God dwelt in bodily form. be holy for I AM Holy, for a purpose. Glorify God and enjoy Him. to truly live. abundantly.

  203. street says:

    thin air vs unapproachable Light.
    thinking of Christian books devotional testimonies and all the other things that people respond to the Bible Scripture verses and spirits. learning to read between the lines, sound failure?, and sift through the market place. i understand our feet will get dirty doing this, but one who has had a bath need only have their feet washed.

    i do enjoy devotionals and the thoughts and experiences of other Christians. the caution is between fear and love not forgetting Who first loved us. yes my feet get dirty every day too. Jesus is Faithful, i must follow. working out your Salvation with fear and trebling comes to mind. is anything to hard for God? Grace and Peace to you in Christ Jesus.

  204. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you very much Street, for all your writings!

    ANd indeed, it is faith, that matters!

    Faith in Jesus

    He is the One that will work out in us, what we ourselves cannot do.
    We are helpless, even with the law, whatever law it is.
    But it is the Life that we receive from Christ that changes us, that strenghtens us.

    But it is the burning of our own boat that is so difficult, as it was for m e, following a set of rules is so clear. It is so uncertain following a Person.

    Unless… we get to know Him better and better. It is a study of getting to know Jesus better.
    As I go through this subject, it is getting clearer and clearer to me.

    Sorry Beloved, for being overbearing to you you.
    With your experience it must be very very hard to follow these hearings. Is it sure you want to do that?

    May God be merciful on them all. Also on Cosby, I really do pray for him, and for all the women.
    God can make us new, I once heard a sermon of a woman who had been abused, and she said: Jesus made her NEW, all the dirt was gone, clean and shining, full of glory.
    God is so powerful, so loving,so cleansing, and all because of the Cross. Not just a man, but The Son of God, by Whom all things were made.

    Your Name is Beautiful

    Let me gaze upon Your Beauty

  205. Beloved says:

    Love you guys.

    Psalm 145 New International Version (NIV)
    Psalm 145[a]
    A psalm of praise. Of David.
    1 I will exalt you, my God the King;
    I will praise your name for ever and ever.
    2 Every day I will praise you
    and extol your name for ever and ever.

    3 Great is the Lord and most worthy of praise;
    his greatness no one can fathom.
    4 One generation commends your works to another;
    they tell of your mighty acts.
    5 They speak of the glorious splendor of your majesty—
    and I will meditate on your wonderful works.[b]
    6 They tell of the power of your awesome works—
    and I will proclaim your great deeds.
    7 They celebrate your abundant goodness
    and joyfully sing of your righteousness.

    8 The Lord is gracious and compassionate,
    slow to anger and rich in love.

    9 The Lord is good to all;
    he has compassion on all he has made.
    10 All your works praise you, Lord;
    your faithful people extol you.
    11 They tell of the glory of your kingdom
    and speak of your might,
    12 so that all people may know of your mighty acts
    and the glorious splendor of your kingdom.
    13 Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
    and your dominion endures through all generations.

    The Lord is trustworthy in all he promises
    and faithful in all he does.[c]
    14 The Lord upholds all who fall
    and lifts up all who are bowed down.
    15 The eyes of all look to you,
    and you give them their food at the proper time.
    16 You open your hand
    and satisfy the desires of every living thing.

    17 The Lord is righteous in all his ways
    and faithful in all he does.
    18 The Lord is near to all who call on him,
    to all who call on him in truth.
    19 He fulfills the desires of those who fear him;
    he hears their cry and saves them.
    20 The Lord watches over all who love him,
    but all the wicked he will destroy.

    21 My mouth will speak in praise of the Lord.
    Let every creature praise his holy name
    for ever and ever.

  206. jeff1 says:

    Lead Me To The Rock

    When my heart is overwhelmed
    And my eyes are blind to You
    And the pain of life is just to heavy to bear

    And then the mountains seem so high
    And my faith too weak to climb
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    When my life is hit with fear
    And I fight to hide the tears
    And I wrestle in my heart to know what to do

    Lord, I’m welling up inside
    But I know You hear my cry
    Jesus, lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    You are the rock and there is no other
    A tower of strength, You are my shelter
    Lord, You are my hope eternal
    You are the rock that is higher than I

    You are the rock and there is no other
    A tower of strength, You are my shelter
    Lord, You are my hope eternal
    You are the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh

  207. street says:

    2 Corinthians 3:4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

  208. foreverblessed says:

    That’s it, Street!

    Beloved, thank you die posting Psalm 145,
    I read it this morning and I am dumbfounded!
    It is good for me to meditate on that Psalm today!
    Praising Jesus, my Rock!
    The Rock of all creation,
    whether they know it or not,
    He is the I AM

  209. poohpity says:

    Mart was thinking that getting intoxicated by the law as being worse than alcohol and after watching those ruled by the flesh during the job interview of our new judge, I can understand that statement to a tee.

    One side has it down to promote hate, discord, lies and division but have failed in so many ways to sow love, peace, unity and to treat others as you want to be treated. They and we need the help of the Spirit to produce that which only the Spirit can produce.

  210. remarutho says:

    Good Morning BTA Friends —

    Looking back to 2011 when I first posted to this site, I am aware that I was looking for — and still needing — the conversation of Jesus-followers who believe in the authority of the Scripture — the divinity of Jesus Christ — the sovereignty of God.

    Could not tune into the hearing yesterday in Washington DC full time because I had things to do — but also when I listened to the questions and the answers my heart broke.

    At issue morally is the question whether a woman’s testimony of being sexually abused can be believed — in the eleventh hour — in the matter of a very important decision to put in place a justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. Not his status with the law of the land, but his moral and ethical integrity are at issue.

    This will be decided in part today, concerning seeking more information in the matter of the moral question.

    The law permits the matter to be settled by an up-or-down vote from the Judicial Committee and the Congress. The goal of installing a very conservative justice on the court is within reach of the current administration.

    I predict the law will be applied, without further consideration of the moral issues at hand. My heart is heavy this morning. How I pray I am wrong.

    Our Daily Bread devotion for today, Sept 28th, 2018 is entitled “Asking God First.” The Scripture passage is:

    Psalm 37:3-7, 23-24 (NASB)
    3 Trust in the Lord and do good;
    Dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness.
    4 Delight yourself in the Lord;
    And He will give you the desires of your heart.
    5 Commit your way to the Lord,
    Trust also in Him, and He will do it.
    6 He will bring forth your righteousness as the light
    And your judgment as the noonday.
    7 Rest in the Lord and wait patiently for Him;
    Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way,
    Because of the man who carries out wicked schemes.
    23 The steps of a man are established by the Lord,
    And He delights in his way.
    24 When he falls, he will not be hurled headlong,
    Because the Lord is the One who holds his hand.

    The suggested question to ponder is “Do your decisions please God?”

    11C/51F here today, with sunshine and forecast for warm temperatures

    Joy all day,
    Maru

  211. SFDBWV says:

    Hello Maru, good to see you are still here. I watched most of the “testimony” yesterday and what I seen were two individuals caught up in the ugliest of American partisan politics.

    Their lives forever ruined by people whose only concern were to get what they wanted through them.

    I was so angry at times, my stomach in a knot and I actually trembling, that every once in a while I had to quit watching.

    For as long as I have been voting, morality has been my litmus test for who I would vote for. I am a Republican because the Democratic Party became the voice for immorality at every level since the party convention in 1968 when the far left liberal extremists took control.

    Every election year the question of abortion comes up and every year people who are against the murder of unborn children are ridiculed and crucified by the Democrats.

    If any one of those Senators who were on that panel yesterday or any of the 100 who occupy the Senate had to endure the microscopic investigation or defend against false accusations by anyone who can get the attention of the press or the opposition, before they could become a Senator, not a single one of them would be seen as qualified.

    What Feinstein did was further divide the American people by using the very hot button issue of sexual abuse at a time when the issue is front page everywhere in America. For political purposes.

    What an insane inane world we live in now where an accusation is a sentence of guilt.

    Was Ted Kennedy guilty of sexual abuse and immoral behavior? Was Bill Clinton, how about John Kennedy? I guess all of that is past history and only irrelevant because they were Democrats.

    These hypocrites expect an appointee to be a copy of Jesus Christ, when most of them don’t even believe in Him or His teaching.

    The Democrats went too far in this matter.

    I pray that sanity and dignity return to the process.

    Steve

  212. poohpity says:

    The only thing I can be sure of as fact in this Supreme Court nomination was the minute Judge Kavanaugh’s name was mentioned, before any hearings at all, was the statement from the minority leader, Sen Schumer said before the Senate on the floor, that they would do everything in their power to stop this man from sitting on the bench of the Supreme Court. Now that was the most honest thing I have heard since then from their side.

  213. Beloved says:

    Dear Legalists,
    2 Peter 3:15-18 has a good word for you, and especially
    18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen

    GROW IN GRACE! Not law not judgement not even justice but grace! Good word Peter. Thanks.

  214. Beloved says:

    Do your decisions please God?

    If they are based on grace, they do. If not, keep on growing knowing Gods grace upholds us until we become more like Him.

  215. Beloved says:

    Dear Legalists,
    2 Peter 3:15-18 has a good word for you– should read, FOR US ALL!

  216. cbrown says:

    Good afternoon all. We had a good discussion at prison last night on the difference between facts and emotions.The conclusion we reached together was that if we Gal 5:16 “Walk in the Spirit, we shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.” Love in Christ.

  217. poohpity says:

    lol only a legalist would apply scripture to the life of some else and not know that scripture is more of mirror than it is a window to look at others. 2 Peter does not seem so much for legalists as it does to beware of false teachers.

    This is more about legalism; all of Galatians but chapter 4 says; So now that you know God (or should I say, now that God knows you), why do you want to go back again and become slaves once more to the weak and useless spiritual principles of this world? 10You are trying to earn favor with God by observing certain days or months or seasons or years. 11I fear for you. Perhaps all my hard work with you was for nothing. 12Dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to live as I do in freedom from these things, for I have become like you Gentiles—free from those laws.

    Ga; 5: 1So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.

    2Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3I’ll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses. 4For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

  218. Beloved says:

    Thanks chris!
    “Grow in grace” (2 Peter 3:18) applies to all situations this world can throw at us, even legalistic word wranglers, lol!

  219. Beloved says:

    And to those who read them. Ugh. Grace applied. :-)

  220. Beloved says:

    Walk in the Spirit.

    A long time ago when I was a new believer I decided to ask Jesus to ride with me as I drove to work. 5 minutes later I found myself in the ditch, sliding off of a snow/ice covered curve. I was shocked that Jesus would let this happen! ( new believer, remember) So, I was kind of scared about what my husband would say, and started for home. Suddenly I heard God say “walk in the Spirit”. You know what I said to God? I said, Its too cold to walk, I’m running! Oh how little I knew back then, but I have learned when He says something its best to do it! And, to trust His ways are far far better than anything I or another voice in the world could come up with.

    Today, I took a real fear to God and it was like a soft warm rain shower of the same 5 words, falling down and soaking in me over and over, “I will be with you”. The event I’m fearful about isn’t until Monday but I am so ready for it, thanks to the wonderful Spirit of God, so present and accessible.
    Cast your cares on Him, for He cares for you.

  221. jeff1 says:

    Amazing grace
    How sweet the sound
    That saved a wretch like me
    I once was lost
    But now I’m found
    Was blind, but now I see

    ‘Twas grace that taught
    My heart to fear
    And grace my Fears relieved
    How precious did
    That grace appear
    The hour I first believed

    Through many dangers
    Toils and snares
    We have already come
    ‘Twas grace hath brought
    Us safe thus far
    And grace will lead us home

    When we’ve been there
    Ten thousand years
    Bright shining as the sun
    We’ll have no less days to sing God’s praise
    Than when we first begun

    Amazing grace
    How sweet the sound
    That saved a wretch like me
    I once was lost
    But now I’m found
    Was blind, but now I see

  222. Beloved says:

    ‘Twas grace that taught
    My heart to fear
    And grace my Fears relieved

    Grace taught my heart to fear?
    Grace my fears relieved?

    Wondering, is this talking about the law? Through grace, the law taught me to be afraid, but grace relieved those fears? Am i having a senior moment? Or? Street???

  223. poohpity says:

    A fear that understands the power of God and then relieved because of understanding that rather than crushing us like ants has shown us love, forgiveness and mercy when we do not DESERVE it = GRACE.

    If one lives by the law then they will fear the repercussions of God for breaking those laws, they fear punishment that was why Adam and Eve hid. BUT those who God knows and believe in what Jesus did no longer fear punishment but embrace and cling to His grace and happily share that same grace with others because they have experienced His salvation. They fear not doing so because that would mean they fully do not understand God’s grace after all and know if they do not show mercy, forgiveness and grace to others then it will not be shown to them. Matt 6:14, 7:2; Mark 4:24; Luke 6:38

  224. poohpity says:

    In the book of Acts we see in several places what happened to those who embraced God’s grace compared to those who followed the law. Those who followed the law formed mobs against those who lived by grace to destroy them. They persecuted them by starting riots, beatings and imprisonment all because they believed in Jesus and His grace.

  225. Beloved says:

    John 3:20-21
    New Living Translation

    All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”

    Doing what is right, doing what God wants, so others can see! God is glorified in our obedience to His moral/ spiritual laws…love God above all others/ things. Love your neighbor, do good to them, always and at all times in all circumstances. And also enemies, ouch. Putting away all wrath, anger etc, put on Christ!

  226. Beloved says:

    Chris still praying with you on your friday night studies.

    Street must be taking a break. May God bless you and refresh you!

  227. SFDBWV says:

    Hearing of the bad news of the earthquake and tsunami in Indonesia I am concerned about our friend “Lovely”, praying she is alright and of course for all affected by the disaster.

    Steve

  228. Beloved says:

    Steve have you heard from pearl? Is she in her home?

  229. SFDBWV says:

    I have not, but Pat talks to her on Facebook, I believe if there were any problems Pat would let me know. Glenna has family in the area of Pearl and they were spared any of the bad flooding. So hoping for the best for Pearl.

    Steve

  230. Beloved says:

    Thanks, I forget about FB except for family mostly.

  231. cbrown says:

    Thank you Beloved for your prayers for the Bible study we have on Thursday nights.It is a blessing to hear the men in the Bible study pray for their families, other inmates,the guards, me and then themselves. We then sing “Victory in Jesus” and have the study which consists of reviewing the “Our Daily Bread” for the previous week.

    Steve, I will join you in praying for those in Indonesia.

    “Finally, in the times we are in now Ephesians 6:10-18
    provides me Light.
    Ephesians 6:10-18 King James Version (KJV)
    10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

    11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

    15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

    16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

    17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

    18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”

  232. Beloved says:

    Lol Chris Ive thought your study was on Friday for some reason but pray when its over so Thursday or Friday God hears, Hes so good ALL THE TIME! Our victory over all things is in Jesus, no matter our circumstances. Thanks for the song!

  233. foreverblessed says:

    It is so good to hear from the prison ministry, Chris?
    I must confess, that when I don’t hear much, I forgetto pray about it, pray for theinmates, and their families, and youas tutor.

    Thank you Beloved for your testimony, about God guiding to you.

    This is s topic about legalism, to me that is following a set of laws, while Christ came so that He would transform our hearts, and make us soft.
    I should follow a Person, Jesus, and I should get to know Him better.
    When I read about Jesus, then I see his far I am from being like Him. But as I said, it is
    Trust
    Trust that Jesus is capable in transforming me, I can trust Him.
    As long as I have faith in Him,

    I remember Corrie ten Boom, writing about a time that she was going to a prison, she felt very incapable. And told God so.
    God answered: It is very good you know that you are incapable, because I am the Only One Who is capable. ( Or maybe different wording)

  234. foreverblessed says:

    A Person, Who saves us, Who heals us, Who sanctifies us. No law can do such a thing. But Jesus can!
    I would like to share something from God calling of today:

    September 29 – I Touch Your Arm

    Thy touch has still its ancient Power

    Yes! when you are quiet before Me I lay My Hand upon each head, and Divine Spirit flows through that healing, powerful Touch into your very beings. Wait in silence before Me to feel that.

    When you look to Me for guidance My Hand is laid upon your arm, a gentle Touch to point the way. When in mental, physical, or spiritual weakness you cry to Me for healing, My Touch brings Strength and Healing, the renewal of your youth, the power to climb and strive.

    When you faint by the way, and stumbling footsteps show human strength is waning, My Touch of the Strong and Helping Hand supports you on your Way.

    Yes! My Children, My touch has still its ancient Power and that Power is promised to you. So go forward into the future bravely and unafraid.

    And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment;
    and as many as touched were made perfectly whole. Matthew 14:36

  235. jeff1 says:

    No matter what they tell us
    No matter what they do
    No matter what they teach us
    What we believe is true

    No matter what they call us
    However they attack
    No matter where they take us
    We’ll find our own way back

    I can’t deny what I believe
    I can’t be what I’m not
    I know this loves forever
    I know, no matter what

    If only tears where laughter
    If only night was day
    If only prayers where answered
    Then we would hear God say

    No matter what they tell you
    No matter what they do
    No matter what they teach you
    What you believe is true

    And I will keep you safe and strong
    And shelter from the storm
    No matter where its barren
    A dream is being born

    No matter who they follow
    No matter where they lead
    No matter how they judge us
    I’ll be everyone you need

    No matter if the sun don’t shine
    Or if the skies are blue
    No matter what the end is
    My life began with you

    I can’t deny what I believe
    I can’t be what I’m not
    I know this love’s forever
    That’s all that matters now
    No matter what

    No matter what (no, no matter, no)

    No, no matter
    That’s all that matters to me
    No, no matter
    That’s all that matters to me
    No, no matter
    That’s all that matters to me
    No, no matter
    That’s all that matters to me
    No, no matter
    That’s all that matters to me
    No, no matter
    That’s all that matters to me

  236. poohpity says:

    If more than anything God wants to be in a relationship with me then my part is to be a willing participant. What does a willing participant do? As with any other relationship I want to get to know the person by spending time with them, listen to them, talk with them and just be near. In many relationships the more time you spend with them the more one begins to reflect or act like they do, that is why some relationships are not that good for me and some are very good for me depending on who it is.

    This battle between the legalism and grace has been around since the early church as seen in Acts 15: The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke)following the law) on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

    Sadly many of the Jewish believers were trying to place the same burden on the Gentiles that they themselves could not follow in obedience to the law to make them right with God but yet God made a way to be in a relationship with Him by believing in Jesus and accepting the grace that was freely given to them. They could not earn it, they did not deserve it but the only things they could do was receive it by the gift that it is.

  237. poohpity says:

    Testify by NEEDTOBREATHE
    Give me your heart give me your song
    Sing it with all your might
    Come to the fountain and
    You can be satisfied
    There is a peace, there is a love
    You can get lost inside
    Come to the fountain and
    Let me hear you testify

    Into the wild
    Canyons of youth
    Oh, there’s a world to fall into
    Weightless we’ll dance
    Like kids on the moon
    Oh, I will give myself to you
    As soon as you start to let go

    Give me your heart give me your song
    Sing it with all your might
    Come to the fountain and
    You can be satisfied
    There is a peace, there is a love
    You can get lost inside
    Come to the fountain and
    Let me hear you testify

    Wave after wave
    As deep calls to deep
    Oh, I’ll reveal my mystery
    As soon as you start to let go

    Give me your heart give me your song
    Sing it with all your might
    Come to the fountain and
    You can be satisfied
    There is a peace, there is a love
    You can get lost inside
    Come to the fountain and
    Let me hear you testify

    Mist on the mountain
    Rising from the ground
    There’s no denying beauty makes a sound
    We can’t escape it
    There’s no way to doubt
    Mist on the mountain rising all around

    Give me your heart give me your song
    Sing it with all your might
    Come to the fountain and
    You can be satisfied
    There is a peace, there is a love
    You can get lost inside
    Come to the fountain and
    Let me hear you testify

    There is a peace, there is a love
    You can get lost inside
    Come to the fountain and
    Let me hear you testify

    You can get lost inside
    You can get lost inside
    Let me hear you testify
    You can get lost, you can get lost inside
    Let me hear you testify
    You can get lost, you can get lost inside
    Let me hear you testify

  238. jeff1 says:

    The battle between legalism and grace exists for the sake of the Gospel as God has His reasons for everything.

    God is still very much in control and it is in that truth that we can remain faithful and not focus on the negativity around us which causes many to fall away.

    Focusing on the failure of believers in the past is not the way forward while learning from them gives us new hope for the future.

    Lets not get bogged down in the battle but look forward to the victory we have in Christ Jesus.

  239. poohpity says:

    How can we learn from them if we do not know about their failures? That makes no sense. There are reasons why God saw fit to put their stories in the bible for us through all ages not only to learn from but also so we can see that all things are common to man. 1 Cor 10:13 NLT

    If we are not aware of the battle then we will be open to deception and false teaching. It is good not to get bogged down by the battle if we trust God but we need to be aware that it exists so we can recognize how in Christ Jesus we have overcome. I have not found one person who is better off by putting their head in the sand and not admitting something exists.

  240. jeff1 says:

    We only have to live in this world to be aware of the battles!

    You cannot erase false teaching in a secular world nor does God expect us to so we just need to be aware it exists.

    If you focus on this world then you will get bogged down on failure rather than looking to Jesus in whom we are already conquerors.

  241. Beloved says:

    Well said Viv. I reminded myself on the way to church ( once I told satan to shut up) that we are more than conquerors through Christ! The services are becoming more spiritual as the pastor is actually asking the HS to have His way in the congregation, and explained salvation, inviting people to come forward for prayer. God is up to something good here. No Christian cliches were used just pure gospel. It was beautiful. Praise God for His patience as He waits for His chosen ones to gather in to His fold.

  242. jeff1 says:

    Yes, Beloved, we get enough negativity from the secular world without having to listen to other believers saying they trust God but not behaving like they do.

    The victory is ours in Jesus and we need to keep that uttermost in our mind otherwise we are open to false teaching or wandering from the truth of the Gospel.

    We are God’s witnesses after all.

  243. Beloved says:

    Viv I have a constant battle with thoughts of what I call ‘worst case scenarios’, meaning, anything negative happening in the world gets blown up causing me undue stress. Jesus is the only One who can calm my fears, as well He should be as I belong to Him. Isn’t it wonderful to be His beloved! We are so fortunate to be His.

    Philip P. Bliss, 1874

    Scripture: John 6:63,68; Philippians 2:15-16

    Words of Life

    Sing them over again to me,
    Wonderful words of life,
    Let me more of their beauty see,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Words of life and beauty
    Teach me faith and duty.
    Refrain:
    Beautiful words, wonderful words,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Beautiful words, wonderful words,
    Wonderful words of life.
    Christ, the blessed One, gives to all
    Wonderful words of life;
    Sinner, list to the loving call,
    Wonderful words of life;
    All so freely given,
    Wooing us to heaven.
    Sweetly echo the Gospel call,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Offer pardon and peace to all,
    Wonderful words of life;
    Jesus, only Savior,
    Sanctify us forever.

  244. poohpity says:

    Is it any of our business how another believer’s relationship is with God? Nooo! That is between them and God. God is big enough to take care of His relationship with His children. We each have to look within ourselves about our relationship God, finger pointing again most often is the pot calling the kettle black and sitting on the very throne that only God has the right to fill that space because only He knows the heart and motives of every single human being. Of course pride of the flesh one may think they can fill His throne but when a person admits their own heart condition humility becomes part of their life and like Job saying Job 40:4-5 NLT.

    How Can It Be

    I am guilty
    Ashamed of what I’ve done, what I’ve become
    These hands are dirty
    I dare not lift them up to the Holy one

    You plead my cause
    You right my wrongs
    You break my chains
    You overcome
    You gave Your life
    To give me mine
    You say that I am free
    How can it be
    How can it be

    I’ve been hiding
    Afraid I’ve let you down, inside I doubt
    That You still love me
    But in Your eyes there’s only grace now

    You plead my cause
    You right my wrongs
    You break my chains
    You overcome
    You gave Your life
    To give me mine
    You say that I am free
    How can it be
    How can it be

    Though I fall, You can make me new
    From this death I will rise with You
    Oh the grace reaching out for me
    How can it be
    How can it be

    You plead my cause
    You right my wrongs
    You break my chains
    You overcome
    You gave Your life
    To give me mine
    You say that I am free

    You plead my cause
    You right my wrongs
    You break my chains
    You overcome
    You gave Your life
    To give me mine
    You say that I am free
    How can it be
    How can it be

  245. poohpity says:

    Casting Crowns

    Who am I, that the lord of all the earth
    Would care to know my name
    Would care to feel my hurt?
    Who am I, that the bright and morning star
    Would choose to light the way
    For my ever wandering heart?

    Not because of who I am
    But because of what you’ve done
    Not because of what I’ve done
    But because of who you are

    I am a flower quickly fading
    Here today and gone tomorrow
    A wave tossed in the ocean
    A vapor in the wind
    Still you hear me when I’m calling
    Lord, you catch me when I’m falling
    And you’ve told me who I am
    I am yours

    Who am I, that the eyes that see my sin
    Would look on me with love
    And watch me rise again?
    Who am I, that the voice that calmed the sea
    Would call out through the rain
    And calm the storm in me?

    Not because of who I am
    But because of what you’ve done
    Not because of what I’ve done
    But because of who you are

    I am a flower quickly fading
    Here today and gone tomorrow
    A wave tossed in the ocean
    A vapor in the wind
    Still you hear me when I’m calling
    Lord, you catch me when I’m falling
    And you’ve told me who I am
    I am yours

    Not because of who I am
    But because of what you’ve done
    Not because of what I’ve done
    But because of who you are

    I am a flower quickly fading
    Here today and gone tomorrow
    A wave tossed in the ocean
    A vapor in the wind
    Still you hear me when I’m calling
    Lord, you catch me when I’m falling
    And you’ve told me who I am
    I am yours

    I am yours
    I am yours
    Whom shall I fear, whom shall I fear?
    ‘Cause I am yours
    I am yours

  246. poohpity says:

    Humility can guarantee a close relationship with God.

  247. foreverblessed says:

    Legalism, is reading the Bible, to see what God wants me to do.
    That is how I read the Bible when I grew up in church.
    Grace, is studying the Bible to see where I can find Jesus.

    I heard a preacher, this summer, saying that Jesus is the Living Word of God. And the Bible is testimony to Jesus.

    For example,

    Ezekiel 1:10 four creatures, with four faces.
    It was as a Bible study of Watchman Nee, that explained to me, why there are four Gospels. Because each Gospel wants to look at one side of Jesus:
    Matthew– Jesus as King, the Glorious King –the face of a lion
    Mark — Jesus as a servant, the Lowly Servant — the face of a calf
    Luke — Jesus as a man or priest before God, the Perfect Man — the face of a man
    John, Jesus as Deity, the perfect God– the face of an eagle.

    There are three on earth, the oil calf ( or ox) and man
    And one in the air, from heaven so to speak, the eagle. Portaging Jesus as God.

    Rev 4:6-7 the four living creatures.

    In studying Bible teachers like Watchman Nee, I have learned this. But I accept this as from the Holy Spirit. Everybody can see for themselves if that is so.

  248. foreverblessed says:

    Oil= lion ( sorry auto-correct)
    There are three on earth:
    Lion, calf and man
    Jesus portrayed as man
    And one in the sky ( heaven)
    Jesus portrayed as heavenly, God

  249. jeff1 says:

    Pooh’s post 30th September 9.47 pm

    Is it any of our business how another believer’s relationship is with God?

    Yet, that is one of the biggest challenges Christians today face as religions have become judgemental of each other.

    When my Protestant friend said to me “those Catholics never leave mass because they have so much to confess,” I said back to her and what do you suppose they are saying about us.

    When have I not judged a person by their behaviour because unless they have confided in me personally it is human nature to take someone at face value.

    When I see believers at church on Sunday talking the talk and on Monday they are cursing and hating their neighbour what am I suppose to think!

    That this is God working in them, what a load of gobbledegook you talk Pooh.

    I am struggling with my own demons because guess who was killing and hating me since I was 15 but my enemies.

    Whom do we pray for at church each Sunday but our enemies so I am trying very hard not to do unto them what they did unto us.

    That’s the best I can do in a war situation is to hope God will change the hearts of our enemies otherwise we fight the good fight with all our might.
    Fight The Good Fight

    Fight the good fight with all thy might;
    Christ is thy Strength, and Christ thy Right;
    Lay hold on life, and it shall be
    Thy joy and crown eternally.

    Run the straight race through God’s good grace,
    Lift up thine eyes, and seek His face;
    Life with its way before us lies,
    Christ is the Path, and Christ the Prize.

    Cast care aside, upon thy Guide,
    Lean, and His mercy will provide;
    Lean, and the trusting soul shall prove
    Christ is its Life, and Christ its Love.

    Faint not nor fear, His arms are near,
    He changeth not, and thou art dear.
    Only believe, and thou shalt see
    That Christ is all in all to thee.

  250. poohpity says:

    Viv, lol, I would not doubt for a minute that you think what I say is gobbledegook, it probably is to you but thank you for your feedback anyway. The flesh understands the flesh and things of the Spirit often seems to confound the flesh. 1 Cor 2:13-14 NLT

  251. poohpity says:

    If I were to talk about anger, hatred, or gossip about another, or think I can judge their actions or words then many would understand that. But speaking about the unfathomable grace we have been shown in our human condition now that is hard to grasp and come to terms with.

  252. poohpity says:

    Back to the topic Romans 8: So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

    5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit.

  253. poohpity says:

    Jesus said, ““Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. 7 But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! 8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples. This brings great glory to my Father.

    9 “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. 10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. 11 I have told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow! 12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you slaves, because a master doesn’t confide in his slaves. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me. 16 You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

  254. cbrown says:

    Good morning all!Thank you for your posts.Pooh, I read you and Viv’s post again and thought she was affirming what you said but with an additional application Love in Christ.

  255. poohpity says:

    Chris, I guess I understood what she said as anything but affirming, I never looked at gobbledegook as being affirming but rather meaning what I said was foolishness to her. If what we are taught by Jesus in things like Matt 7:3-5 NLT is gobbledegook then I am OK with what I say being nothing but gobbledegook.

  256. poohpity says:

    I guess being a jurists and amateur prosecutors which condemns others not even one in recovery because one can not recover from something they do not admit to was what our topic seems to be referring to.

  257. poohpity says:

    Please reread the topic and then see how what I write falls into that. That is the basis or foundation for the things I write more often than not.

  258. poohpity says:

    The scriptures I share, the songs I share and the other comments have the focus on that.

  259. poohpity says:

    That is the legalistic side of me, I like to talk about the topic at hand.

  260. Beloved says:

    Thanks Chris, yes, the love of Christ is most important I think. Without that beautiful love we would be trapped in our sin (whether we admit them or not) Christs sacrifice reminds me I dont have to defend myself, the Holy Spirit does that in the innermost parts of us. And His humility is our pattern for living. Even better than manmade rules, ie, 12 steps for recovery or other programs. Existentialism has made man a little higher than God. We are all victims of this in one way or another, thanks to moderism; Freud and his cohorts. Only Jesus can cut through the fog of rules, and their particular forms of legalism. Even scripture can be used to demean and promote ones personal agenda. I myself in ignorance or malicious intent or even good intentions have skewed scripture not understanding the love of God. We often come to the Word looking, hoping for love, yet not having a clue as to what Love looks like! The more we learn about Jesus the more we learn about love, and Im still learning every day!
    Spurgeon says the sweetest grass is found in the dirt at Jesus’ feet. Let us sit and soak in all the benefits of His love. Thank you LORD, for leading us through green pastures beside still waters. Be still, and know that I am God.

  261. poohpity says:

    As it is with AA or LA the person is the only one to determine whether they are an alcoholic or are legalistic but one has to know the definition of either and the characteristics of such before they even seek help just like it is for the sinner. No one else can determine that for the person. If one does not realize they are a sinner then most often they will not seek a Savior nor will they grasp the concept of grace. That is the reasoning behind the very first step in any Anonymous program or giving our life to Christ.

  262. jeff1 says:

    Pooh, what I affirmed was that you were correct in saying that a believer cannot judge the heart of another believer.

    I made the point by talking of my friend judging Roman Catholics who attend mass frequently and her thinking that they must have much to confess and my answer being that what did she think they would be saying about us.

    I also pointed out that I do make judgement calls on another believers behaviour because I do not know their heart so if they attend their place of worship one day and the next they behave ungodly then I presume they do not take their faith very seriously.

    I learned that it didn’t matter what church they attended but rather whether their heart was with God or not when it came to their behaviour.

    I was conditioned all my life to believe that rituals and beliefs mattered to God only to find that God is more concerned with my behaviour and His part in changing me from this creature that I have become.

  263. Beloved says:

    I think, that the Bible defines addiction as lust, idolatry, drunkenness, gluttony etc.

  264. Beloved says:

    Example: Legalism is expecting and criticizing others for not following the topic :-), then talking about how I follow the topic. (like saying look what a good blogger I am, usually.)

  265. Beloved says:

    Just teasing you, pooh!

  266. poohpity says:

    First, I have been on here for 10 years + so I do not expect anybody to comment on the topic because usually that does not happen especially with the group we have left, the majority of them never have, in fact more often than not they change the subject. You will have to refresh my memory about criticizing them for not doing something they usually do not do any way?

    The reason I mentioned about me commenting on the topic legalistically is because if people know what I say is about the topic and not them, they may read my comments with a different perspective than taking my comments as personal insults or trying to convict them when I am actually talking about the topic most often. Talking about the topic alone can stop many arguments and that was what this site was about in the first place just like ODB. I have seen how not following the guidelines have made this site incinerate.

    No you were not teasing it was your usual passive/aggressive taunts towards me. God bless your little heart! You did a very good job not doing this for a while and I respect that. :-)

  267. Beloved says:

    Oh pooh you are sooo wrong, lol!

  268. Beloved says:

    Thanks for keeping check on my behavior here, by the way.
    Its good to have a score keeper, i guess…lol!

    When you said,

    poohpity says:
    October 1, 2018 at 8:24 am
    Please reread the topic and then see how what I write falls into that. That is the basis or foundation for the things I write more often than not.

    poohpity says:
    October 1, 2018 at 8:26 am
    The scriptures I share, the songs I share and the other comments have the focus on that.

    poohpity says:
    October 1, 2018 at 8:33 am
    That is the legalistic side of me, I like to talk about the topic at hand.

    Sounded funny to me pooh, like the pharisee standing on the street corner pounding his chest saying, look at me, I follow the blog laws! Though you did say, mostly or usually which I acknowledged.

    Then you topped it off with this severe criticism in answer to me:

    First, I have been on here for 10 years + so I do not expect anybody to comment on the topic because usually that does not happen especially with the group we have left, the majority of them never have, in fact more often than not they change the subject.me

    Do you get it, yet? We ALL fail. Thats why i was teasing you. Usually our limited vision gets us in trouble, i know mine does. Take heed when you think you stand, lest you fall. A favorable verse that gets me every time!

  269. Beloved says:

    Dont know where the “me” came from when i quoted you, pooh. Sorry.

  270. poohpity says:

    Following the blog guidelines shows respect for Mart and I do respect him and always have.

    Boasting in how spiritual or godly I am like the Pharisee is a whole other thing. Remember the tax collector/sinner stood in the background beating his chest admitting he was a sinner which if I remember right is what I did when I admitted to my legalism. Never said I wasn’t!

    I guess because I know what is in my heart when I say something and usually it is not meant for evil that is what concerns me when people think it is but of course you can not change someone’s mind when they have been brainwashed into believing something.

    I do not do a lot right and I mess up all the time but I do try to respect others because I care for people deep from my heart. That is how I have been the majority of my life and I was taught respect for others as a child, so it has stuck with me throughout my time so far.

  271. poohpity says:

    So let’s agree to go back to talking about something else besides me, after all I am not that interesting and it is just going to take the natural road it usually does of being ugly, rude and hateful.

  272. Beloved says:

    Good idea. My apologies for upsetting you, I was trying to bring some humor to this painful never-ending topic, lol. Laughing at ourselves can be good. I laugh at myself for screwing up all the time, after I’ve beat myself first. :-)

  273. Beloved says:

    Hey, you are Gods beloved, so yes you are interesting. We all have unique personalities here. Marts been trying to get us to see how similar we all are in Christ.

    So lets ALL try harder to focus on the similarities rather than individual differences :-).

  274. street says:

    26 And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

  275. Beloved says:

    Love that woman, street.

  276. foreverblessed says:

    Such a good report of a woman who believed!

    I started in Galatians 1:1 again,
    … by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead.

    That Jesus was raised from the dead was a big thing in the Gospel!

    The One Who had made heaven and earth, and all creatures, that One had lived among men, had taken all our sins, fallenness,
    ( Each one of us has failed in his own way, Isaiah 53:6)
    And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all

    Gal 3:1 before your very eyes Jesus Christ was portrayed as crucified..

    Did you receive the Spirit, by believing what you heard.

    These verses have been posted here above.
    But it was such a big thing: Christ and Him crucified.

  277. foreverblessed says:

    Christ carried ALL, also the disaster now in Indonesia!
    What a terrible ordeal!
    God, be merciful on them all, carry them, comfort them, help them in reaching the far away areas!

    As You did to us, when we were lost, You are King of Kings, no one who higher than You. In Christ all will be drawn to You.

    Steve how are you, and yours doing? God is with you, I know that you know that you know that!

  278. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning Foreverblessed, thank you for your concern.

    My lack of commenting is only because I have little or nothing to add to what I have already said concerning the topic.

    We have had a very wet summer and as a result the leaves are still green even though fall is upon us.

    I would really like to hear from “Lovely” our friend from Indonesia as the earthquake and tsunami that followed was catastrophic in its wake. Praying she and hers are ok.

    So much sadness in the world, so much heartache, I pray daily for the Peace of Jerusalem and an end to it all.

    I guess I am just tired, but thanks for saying hello.

    Steve

  279. jeff1 says:

    I am tired too Steve, often this world looks like hell itself and I find myself asking though not a Roman Catholic is this purgatory.

    What ever I don’t know doesn’t seem to matter because I know that God knows best.

    Being fond of the writings of C.S. Lewis he has this to say on purgatory.

    I BELIEVE IN PURGATORY

    “Of course I pray for the dead. This action is so spontaneous, so all but inevitable, that only the most compulsive theological case against it could deter me. And I hardly know how the rest of my prayers would survive if those for the dead were forbidden. At our age the majority of those we love best are dead. What sort of intercourse with God could I have if what I love best were unmentionable to Him?

    I believe in Purgatory.

    Mind you, the Reformers had good reasons for throwing doubt on the ‘Romish doctrine concerning Purgatory’ as that Romish doctrine had then become…

    The right view returns magnificently in Newman’s DREAM.
    There, if I remember it rightly, the saved soul, at the very foot of the throne, begs to be taken away and cleansed.
    It cannot bear for a moment longer ‘With it’s darkness to affront the light’. Religion has claimed Purgatory.

    Our souls demand Purgatory, don’t they? Would it not break the heart if God said to us, ‘it is true, my son, that your breath smells and your rags drip with mud and slime, but we are charitable here and no none will upbraid you with these things, nor draw away from you. Enter into the joy’?
    Should we not reply, ‘With submission, sir, and if there is no objection, I’d rather be cleansed first.’ ‘It may hurt, you know’- ‘Even so, sir.’

    I assume that the process of purification will normally involve suffering. Partly from tradition; partly because most real good that has been done me in this life has involved it.
    But I don’t think the suffering is the purpose of the purgation. I can well believe that people neither much worse nor much better than I will suffer less than I or more…
    The treatment given will be the one required, whether it hurts little or much.

    My favourite image on this matter comes from the dentist’s chair. I hope that when the tooth of life is drawn and I am ‘coming around’, ‘ a voice will say, ‘Rinse your mouth out with this.’ This will be Purgatory. The rinsing may take longer than I can now imagine. The taste of this may be more fiery and astringent than my present sensibility could endure. But… it will (not) be disgusting and unhallowed.”

    C. S. Lewis, Letters To Malcolm: Chiefly on Prayer, chapter 20, paragraphs 7-10, pages 108-109

  280. poohpity says:

    It seems the reason that everything looks so bad in the world is because just like people the media only focuses on the bad happening in the world. There are many good things but that does not make the news nor do people look for those things they would rather concentrate on the negative.

    Every day, every hour, every minute someone is doing something nice and good for someone else all around the world but that does not make the headlines, front page or top story.

    Look at all our President has accomplished since he has been in office fulfilling his promises but there are those with louder mouths who want him destroyed because he won. They destroy people and anyone who stands up for him in anyway to where they are not even able to go to a restaurant, shopping, ride in an elevator. The hate that is nurtured and promoted it seems is at it’s highest level and not many at all look at the good he has done.

    The human heart is bent on destruction but take heart because Jesus has overcome the world by their own hate they crucified Him but love raised Him from the dead.

  281. poohpity says:

    Look what the Senate is doing to a good person who minds his own business, does his job with distinction, cares for his family and community, helps women achieve their goals in a world that caters only to men yet he is trashed, accused and spoken of as if he is the worst thing that has happened in the courtroom but the saddest part is his accusers if anyone would do any research into their lives could not hold a candle to the character and integrity that is in this man’s little finger alone.

    There is a lesson here that all could stand to learn about the destruction of false accusations, lies and hate whether in a small scale or a large one.

  282. foreverblessed says:

    I was getting tired too.
    But this morning, when I had a new look on Galatians 1:1,
    it appeared to me in a deeper sense that the Gospel is so much about Christ, being crucified, and above all, Christ being raised:
    That whatever bad happens, everything is solved in the Cross.
    If only we do believe in the Cross
    Christ and Him crucified.
    We are bearers if that message, I am, and I still have to, want to, believe, even if such a tragedy happens.
    Even when things are going so wrong, when the lies of one party are ignored, and the lies of another party are magnified. Even among christians. I have to forgive them, and pray for them!
    God forgive them, they do not know what they are doing.!

  283. poohpity says:

    Hebrews 12: Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. 2 We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith. Because of the joy awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne.”

  284. cbrown says:

    God morning all.Thursday night one of the inmates asked me,rather told me. When I get out of prison I will not be able to go to church because the people will see my tattoos and not accept me.I explained to him that anyone who judges you because of your tattoos has the problem. God looks at your heart.Love in Christ.Pooh is this post on topic?

  285. poohpity says:

    Sarcasm is definitely a loving thing to do. When have you ever cared whether you are on topic or not nor do I care whether you are or not. You answer to God not me and Mart took down the unfollowed guidelines so you can not break the rules if there are none to break. We act then on what is in our hearts and by the guidance of the Holy Spirit at that point.

  286. poohpity says:

    Frankly Chris, since you have been on here your boasting is more about your works in the prison then it is about sharing the works and teaching of Jesus Christ and faith in Him.

  287. jeff1 says:

    If I was happy about nothing else in this world I am delighted that GOD saved me out of HIS LOVE for me and all the LOST SOULS like me because if there is anything LACKING IN THIS WORLD it is LOVE and I mean GOD’S LOVE WHICH TRIUMPHS HUMAN LOVE and possibly why it is so lacking.

    Faith, hope and love and the greatest is LOVE.

    Great is Thy faithfulness,” O God my Father,
    There is no shadow of turning with Thee;
    Thou changest not, Thy compassions, they fail not
    As Thou hast been Thou forever wilt be.
    “Great is Thy faithfulness!” “Great is Thy faithfulness!”
    Morning by morning new mercies I see
    All I have needed Thy hand hath provided
    “Great is Thy faithfulness,” Lord, unto me!

    Summer and winter, and springtime and harvest
    Sun, moon and stars in their courses above
    Join with all nature in manifold witness
    To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love

    Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth
    Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide
    Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow
    Blessings all mine, with ten thousand beside

  288. SFDBWV says:

    This is just one of those times when all I can do is smile in amazement.

    This morning was one of those days I have that feels like hell on earth and then Viv posts about life here being hell, and Chris shared about an inmate who is worried he won’t be accepted at a church.

    The man who I hired last year to be our town maintenance man fills the ex-con look down to the shaved head, the goatee, the tattoos and the language.

    He looks like an ex-con because he is. However he is a changed man with a renewed heart from his converting from career criminal to Christian. And His actions show it.

    The first time he went to the Bayard Church of God when he and his wife went in they sat beside a friend of mine, Judy. Judy didn’t know him, but as soon as he sat down she grabbed up her purse and clutched it tightly to her chest in a protective posture.

    Mike told her he might look like the devil, but he wasn’t and laughed.

    I told Judy who he was and that his appearance was misleading, and that he too was a friend of mine.

    She soon learned to accept and believe and so all is well now.

    I hope Chris’s inmate friend has at least as good an outcome.

    Vivian, I have told this before, but forgive me if you have heard it before; relevant to praying for the dead.

    Soon after my father died I dreamt of him lying in a coffin. As I stood there looking down at him he opened his eyes and sat up a little and spoke to me.

    I blurted out to him that this was great as he died and I had a funeral and everything for him and buried him, yet here you are alive and talking to me.

    He then looked deep into my eyes and said for me to go and visit Henry Davis because he is in prison, to go and pray for Henry Davis. Henry Davis is my mother’s father, my grandfather.

    I was (in the dream) shocked and said I didn’t know he was in prison, I thought he had died when I was about 11. If I had known he was in prison I would have been visiting him all this time.

    And then I woke up.

    I knew that the Catholic Church prays for the dead so that afternoon I called the local Catholic Church and ask to speak with the Priest. When I told the secretary the story she was very upset and concerned. I wanted to know what Scripture verses gave credibility to being able to pray for the dead. She was unable to tell me and the Priest was gone for the day.

    That evening I found the verse I was looking for and though a little vague, it was enough for me. I have been praying for the dead ever since.

    I figure why not, if I am in error, I would rather err on the side of grace and love than on punishment and the “law”.

    Blessing to all today.

    Steve

  289. jeff1 says:

    Thank you Steve for telling your story again as it has set my mind at ease as I too would rather error on the side of grace and love living in a world where it is often so lacking.

  290. street says:

    1 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

    thinking about this verse and seeking God face. seems to me if we do, we are going to need a lot of it.

  291. street says:

    been away all weekend and have not caught up yet, maybe by the end of the week.

  292. street says:

    Purgatory
    if i remember right this comes from the idea you can work your way into heaven. if you could, the cross looks very unnecessary. the book of Galatians address the issue of grace not works. Romans address the issue none are righteous. both speak of righteousness of faith in Christ death on a cross/substitution. Resurrection proved His sinless offering acceptable. never to die again. His Ascension attest to His Deity, sitting at the Right Hand of the Father.

  293. foreverblessed says:

    Welcome back Street!
    That’s a good Bible verse to go I to the night!
    I just checked in before I go to bed.
    Jesus is so pretty, no need to worry about anything.
    In Galatians 1:15
    Christ was revealed in me.
    The story of the inmates to me is the powerful working of Christ!
    Keep up the work Chris!
    We pray for you!

    I am part in the great church of our city. Where we pray o Dr the prayer book, many tourists and non-church goers, but yet believers, write their prayers in that book. Lots and lots of praying for their loved ones who have died.
    In my own mind I feel the urge to pray for the left-behinds, for their comfort, that the Holy Spirit may comfort them. For their souls.
    Praying for the dead is something you can ask God about.
    What I write now is my own personal answer that I received.
    That is the verse in the gospel where Jesus said that the dead are gathered by the angels,
    Matthew 13:39,47-49
    Matthew 24:31
    The dead are the realm for the angels:
    “you pray for the living.”
    And so I do.

    And when we lift up the prayers of the prayer book, I pray a lot for the living.

    What I do believe is that it is the other way round:
    The dead in Christ pray for us!

    But that is my own personal instruction, any other Christian can be instructed differently, and that is possible.
    God has many different ministries
    Eph 4:10-16

    So I pray for the inmates, and I have a thought, that maybe the inmates are much more ready, and desperate, to receive Christ. They have lost their lives anyway, nothing more to loose.
    Their gain is Christ.

    And so is ours!

  294. Beloved says:

    Hebrews says,
    24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

  295. Beloved says:

    Matthew 22:32
    ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.

  296. Beloved says:

    Jesus warned that we must be willing to deny all others to follow Him. Deny, not to stop loving and caring for them but to put Christ above them in our affection and devotion. Narrow is the way that leads to life but broad the road that leads to destructon.

  297. SFDBWV says:

    I had an old friend who based his entire disbelief of life after death on one verse of Scripture; “The dead know nothing.”

    In spite of all the other Scripture that showed otherwise, he remained steadfast on what he believed.

    I know plenty of people like that.

    I truly dislike playing table tennis with Scripture as to me it is disrespectful of the Word and shows a lack of understanding especially a lack of willingness to learn.

    When the Sadducees were trying to trip up Jesus and ask whose wife the woman who had married several brothers, each of whom died, would be in the resurrection; His answer was pointed and direct as to what the trap was all about.

    The Sadducees didn’t believe in life after death and Jesus directed His answer to their lack of understanding, when he said that God *is* not *was* the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, because these men still live.

    Interesting to me is perhaps the story of this woman who married several brothers, all of whom died in the Catholic Bible in the Book of Tobit.

    It is a very entertaining story.

    John Hagee has a very interesting layout that shows what he sees happens to the soul of mankind after death. Which shows a place of torment as well as paradise, both a holding place awaiting the rapture and both resurrections at future times.

    Jesus referenced these places when giving the story of Lazarus and the rich man. And it is written that Jesus went and “preached unto the spirits in “prison”, who were “disobedient” before the flood of Noah.

    I guess if Jesus went and preached to the dead, I should at least pray for them.

    Steve

  298. poohpity says:

    Chris my last reply to you was rather snarky and for that I apologize. Deb

  299. cbrown says:

    Deb, Love always!

  300. jeff1 says:

    I pray for God to forgive me my sins when I stumble though I know He already has and so I have God’s Grace.

    Should I not pray then for other lost souls to be extended His Grace as Salvation is about God’s mercy which He has given freely to me?

  301. Beloved says:

    Good morning friends! On this we can all agree;

    IPeter
    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

  302. Beloved says:

    I Peter 1:22 Amen!

  303. Beloved says:

    I Peter 1:23

  304. foreverblessed says:

    Yes, we can agree on that!

    Last night I heard a sermon of Joyce Meyer on tv.
    It was about the Holy Spirit.
    She was reading Romans 7:4-6
    And at that moment it was sooo clear to me:
    The law had fulfilled it’s purpose in bringing us to Christ. When we are in Him, then the Spirit is our Guide, our Comforter.
    God wants us to be led by the Spirit, moment by moment, hearing the still small voice, in matters great, and in matters very very small.

    I don’t remember which translation she used for Romans 7:6
    It was very clear, more than the KJ, or NIV, the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Leave a Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.