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Who for Who?

Does God exist for us, or do we exist for God?

Isaiah spoke of the God who acts for his own Name and glory (Isaiah 48:9-11).

Yet, the Apostle Paul asked, “If God is for us, who can be against us? (Romans 8:31). He follows with, “He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?” (v32).

We’ve reminded one another in this space that the Scriptures come to fullness (refreshingly new) meaning in the Son— who said he came to reveal the heart of his Father.

Seems to me (in a small space between 2 ears) that if God exists for himself in the way we do (in the moments we regret) then, by reason of his infinite power and authority, he can make anyone he wants, use them for his purposes, and throw them away— or worse, to show that he answers to no one but himself.

But if it is for God’s own glory and Name that he redeemed a liar like Jacob, refusing to share his stage with idols, nations, and heads of state (Daniel 4:28-30)— while allowing himself to be misunderstood, ignored, rejected, insulted, and far worse. If he does all that to show … then….


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210 Responses to “Who for Who?”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning Mart, I would have had my comment on “Legalists Anonymous” completed and posted prior to your new thoughts except for a computer glitch that ate up my morning time. I am sure everyone is familiar with the annoyances that computers can produce.

    Oh well with a third cup of coffee and having fed the critters and sent in the weather report I am ready to give “Who for Who?” a go.

    Many years ago a friend of mine was furious when her daughter, who was attending Fairmont State Collage, sent her a copy of the college newspaper.

    A professor and editor of the paper had projected the idea that we are God. That our universe is all about us and that everything we do is self-motivated. I am of course paraphrasing as it has been quite a while since I last read the article.

    I wrote an answer for my friend and it became the subject of a cartoon showing the poor editor in hell with demons poking him with pitchforks.

    I don’t know if he has learned anything since then but I certainly have.

    If the only thing I experienced about God came only from my intellectual reading and acceptance of the Bible, I might have to agree of the possibility in believing that we exist for God, only.

    However my experience with God comes from an association with Him in all three forms of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    In an observation of life around me, of my life and the lives of others.

    Are there still questions? Certainly, and they will remain until that hour when Jesus will reveal all. Until that time I am to trust.

    Sometimes it is not easy to look past the difficulties and struggles of here and now and believe there is a God who loves us and watches over us, but that is what both he wants and we need.

    In a short answer to your question I believe that God exists for us and we exist for Him in a mutual need and fulfillment of love in its purest form.

    Yet in the end it is He who created us, not we who created Him.

    Though you wouldn’t believe it for all of the views of who God is from all of humankind including we Christians.

    Steve

  2. poohpity says:

    I think that at times we can believe God is here for us, to do everything we ask sort of like a Divine Santa Claus or the other was we are like captive slaves to God for Him to use us like His tool for His purposes. I think the connotation of both can be with a rather selfish mind set.

    But the way I look at it God created this beautiful world for us because it brings Him pleasure to see us enjoy it, the same with us doing things for God because it brings us pleasure and enjoyment, so essentially no one is actually “Using” anyone but seeking to show love to each other by the way we act, the gratitude we show in admiring creation and everything that is available for us to search out to keep our minds busy.

    Can you imagine the difference there would be in the world if our first parents were grateful for who God made them to be and the relationship that He wanted with them and enjoyed what they had rather than trying to be like the One who created them?

  3. poohpity says:

    Matthew 7:9-12 NLT As it is with parents and children. The parent wants to do what is in the best interest of the child and the parent finds joy in their children, the same with the children they find joy in just being with their parent and they usually ask for things that they can not get themselves.

  4. street says:

    Who for Who?

    thinking about a joke from the 60’s…

    capitalism vs communism…..

    capitalism is man exploiting man….

    communism is the reverse.

    have to admit mart i will have to think about this post before responding directly. thanks ahead of time.

  5. foreverblessed says:

    This is quite hard for me to get.
    Mart should not van explain himself, because that would prevent me from thinking this over.

    One thought came up, when reading:
    ” then, by reason of his infinite power and authority, he can make anyone he wants, use them for his purposes, and throw them away— or worse, to show that he answers to no one but himself.”

    This is what Lucifer must have thought, the start of what made him into the adversary.

    Does God do everything for Himself?
    Jesus gave Himself up so as to save us.
    In that fact God does everything for us.

  6. jeff1 says:

    A simple faith tells me that God is on my side but I am not always on His. I do not always see His reasons and doubt enters my mind but God finds a way to my heart and I find a peace that surpasses understanding.

    ‘As the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are
    higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the the sower and bread for the eater, so is My Word that goes out from My mouth: it will not return to Me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.’ (Isaiah 55:9-11, NIV)

    To God be the glory, great things He has done;
    So loved He the world that He gave us His Son,
    Who yielded His life an atonement for sin,
    And opened the life gate that all may go in.

    Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
    Let the earth hear His voice!
    Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
    Let the people rejoice!
    O come to the Father, through Jesus the Son,
    And gave Him the glory, great things He has done.

    O perfect redemption, the purchase of blood,
    To every believer the promise of God;
    The vilest offender who truly believes,
    That moment from Jesus a pardon receives.

    Refrain:
    Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
    Let the earth hear His voice!
    Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
    Let the people rejoice!
    O come to the Father, through Jesus the Son,
    And give Him the glory, great things He has done.

    Great things He has taught us, great things He has done,
    And great our rejoicing through Jesus the Son;
    But purer, and higher, and greater will be
    Our wonder, our transport, when Jesus we see.

    Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
    Let the earth hear His voice!
    Praise the Lord, praise the Lord
    Let the people rejoice!
    O come to the Father, through Jesus the Son,
    And gave Him the glory, great things He has done…

  7. Beloved says:

    I am going to try to stay on topic to avoid confusion.

    As far is Who for Who? What comes to mind in my own small space between my ears is Imago Deo, we were created in God’s own image, then we blew it by listening to His adversary, then God sent His Son to bail us out so to speak, then as now He calls us to turn from our sin to bring glory to Himself. Sounds like a Love affair of the ages. So, Who for who or who for Who I guess it comes down to I AM. And I am not! But I am loved, oh how I am loved :-).

  8. foreverblessed says:

    Sounds like a love affair!!!

    I picture Jesus as a Bridegroom, He longs to be with His wife.
    But He could live as a “bachelor” He needs no-one to live. God is complete self supporting.
    But oh, how He looks forward to His wedding.

    And after having said this: God already lives in those who are His.
    The close union:
    A love affair!

    Yes, thanks Beloved, for setting me on track, so to speak.

  9. jeff1 says:

    Do I see God’s love as chastisement as that is where I have to be honest with myself in seeing that God intends it for good.

    It is not about what I do for God but what He does for me.

    I see it as a parents love for a child and God loving me enough to want to correct me from my wayward ways.

    The need is all mine as I am weary from running from God for one reason or another.

    I don’t understand myself so how can I possibly understand God in all His complexity.

    It isn’t about understanding but that I feel connected to God and know I can trust Him above all other.

    If there is an upside to mental illness it is that I cannot trust on my own understanding and so whom else do I trust but God or those I believe to be closest to Him.

  10. SFDBWV says:

    For thousands of years mankind has wrestled with the notion of God.

    The first question being is there a God, the second being why am I here?

    As has been written there are many books written on the subject and it is all exhausting. Each individual person has to come to a conclusion on their own.

    What contributes to that conclusion is a multitude of events and information that ultimately or hopefully finally gives the individual “peace”.

    It appears that most people believe in “something” above their knowledge and understanding of existence.

    We who have come to believe what the Bible has to say can quote Scripture and say that God has written eternity on the hearts of mankind.

    That means in our DNA the idea of eternity and something more to life is a part of our mental composition.

    So we look for answers above our 5 senses. And we listen to people who seem to have some idea of what is going on.

    In our history there have been unshakeable, undeniable events that have the supernatural signature of there being a God and His interaction with mankind.

    The creation of the Hebrew people and the ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.

    The very fact that there exists a Jewish people gives credibility to the story of how they became a people/nation. In spite of non-believers attempts to discredit the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, there exists a “Church” established by first hand witnesses.

    There exists a collection of books that tells both the story of the Hebrew and of Jesus.

    The story connects to us believers because we have supernatural help. We already naturally believe in something spiritual, but the story of the Bible and especially of Messiah is authenticated within our hearts because within our hearts we have the Holy Spirit who confirms, recognizes and bears witness of Himself.

    We even learn from these ancient writings that we believe because we were chosen to believe from before creation.

    To try and explain what existed in God before creation is impossible. As the only information He has given us is what we have written and what our experiences and post creation enables us to.

    What I know is that there is a Creator God and that my purpose is to give glory to God and uplift His Son Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah and Lord.

    I do this in how I live and do so by surrendering self for others. By making His will more important than any desire I might have.

    In doing so I imitate God. This is His will, for Him to be the example and I to follow.

    If I were to create God I would want a God to be more like me. This is what pagan religion did.

    But God created me so that I could be more like Him and gave us the example of Jesus so that we could know what His example looks like.

    So yes God exists for us, because we need him to, but we exist for God because he wants it that way. It is His will to create and exist with us in pure love and fellowship.

    It is His will.

    Steve

  11. jeff1 says:

    I think the difficulty is in doing it well, or not, as whether I like it or not this world does distract me from God’s ways.

    Jesus has to be enough when I am tired, depressed and no answers to be found.

    Thinking many believers do create God to be like them which is why many are judgemental because that is how they see God as someone who cracks the whip.

    Its a fine line to playing God and why I feel I need to focus on being a servant rather than a friend because the latter is a slippery slope into feeling I have the right to judge others.

    God has to save me from myself in as much as He has to save me from the wickedness of the world as I can be my own worst enemy and it is not until I know my own weaknesses that I accept God does what He has to do because I do not do what I should.

    With all my weaknesses I know that God is not as much in need of me as I am of Him but He does not send me away empty because it is not who He is.

  12. poohpity says:

    God does not need us, we need God! “Piper: “God has no need for us to meet. No, he glorifies himself in meeting our needs.” If we believe that God created everything we would ever need in this world then we know it is from His hand we receive. He created everything we need for food and if that is not available then He will rain down Manna from heaven to feed us. He created the raw material we use for clothes and shelter, the materials we use for art and He created even the basic instruments we use for music and a song for our hearts, He gave us each certain gifts to minister to each other.(Acts 17:25-26 NLT)

    If people do not give God the thanks He alone deserves then even the rocks will cry out to bring Him glory and gratitude.

  13. poohpity says:

    If the rocks do not cry out in adoration then the angels or His creation itself that are in His presence will. (Romans 1:20-21 NLT)

  14. poohpity says:

    It then becomes a privilege or a desire from the grateful heart to serve Him and others. NOT because we have to but because we want to.

  15. poohpity says:

    “There’s a scientist and God. And the scientist challenges God to a contest of who can make the better human being. God tells him that he’s on, at which time the scientist, in great delight, bends over to pick up some dust to make his human being. Then God says, ‘No, no … you go and find your own dust.’”

  16. poohpity says:

    Even our own relationship with God and our faith in Him is born from Him.

    Romans 5: Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us. 2 Because of our faith, Christ has brought us into this place of undeserved privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to sharing God’s glory.

    3 We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they help us develop endurance. 4 And endurance develops strength of character, and character strengthens our confident hope of salvation. 5 And this hope will not lead to disappointment. For we know how dearly God loves us, because he has given us the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with his love.”

  17. street says:

    Does God exist for us, or do we exist for God?

    if God exist for us, then it is idolatry.

    it gets real interesting when we exist for God.

  18. street says:

    Isaiah spoke of the God who acts for his own Name and glory

    thinking about the electric company and the service they provide. i thank them monthly. if i sent my thank you to the gas company they would not be amused in the least.

    God will not let another to take credit for what He has done. He can pay off your debt, thank you, would be the least you could due/do. thinking about His power being perfected in our weakness. totally amazing God, the whole earth is filled with His Glory.

  19. street says:

    made new in Christ. so easy to become stale and lifeless, the smallest ember he will not snuff out and a bent reed He will not break off.

    Yet, the Apostle Paul asked, “If God is for us, who can be against us?

    Matthew 18:13
    If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray.

    let us rejoice too!

    i have to admit when the Shepard is out of sight it gets pretty scary. should i have been afraid? or serve the way He taught me. even if he slay me. i will trust Him.

  20. street says:

    Seems to me (in a small space between 2 ears) that if God exists for himself in the way we do (in the moments we regret) then, by reason of his infinite power and authority, he can make anyone he wants, use them for his purposes, and throw them away— or worse, to show that he answers to no one but himself.

    oh mart you very bad bad. comparing God to man?!?!
    i understand your illustration falls short. comparing the Holy with the profane. the Unchanging with the changing, Light with darkness. the Living with the dead. made alive in Christ.

    this brings me to the idea of the difference of “use” and “profit”. God created man for a purpose. the project He started was hijacked by sin. not a surprise to God. part of the plan. would have been neat to see it played out the other way, but that is not where we find ourselves and foolish speculation on my part. we did see something we could not have seen apart from the fall. the intensity and depth of His Love for us and His goal to be Holy and Blameless. Righteousness and Justice we are told are the Foundation of His Rule/Thrown.

    yes, He could discard us because we are moral agents. we are responsible for what we did willfully and what we did in ignorance or what we failed to do. paul beats us over the head about how bankrupt we are and it is true. God is going to redeem man to complete the work He began. we are told He chose before the foundation of the earth and we are told that any who come from the invitation would not be rejected. Jesus is Light. i can not see hope or purpose in living in darkness any longer, yet i find myself living in a wilderness. i remember Him saying
    John 16:33
    These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

    hold on to the Gospel of peace.

    Ephesians 6:15
    and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

    it is hard to give Good News when your spirit is in “up in arms” or upset.

  21. bubbles says:

    God existed forever in the past before He created us. . . in the space of eternity, everything that has happened with earth being created and the history of the world is just a speck in eternity.

    He came and walked with Adam and Eve in the garden in the cool of the day.

  22. street says:

    If he does all that to show … then….

    If he does all that to show the difference…. the Holy with the profane. the Unchanging with the changing, Light with darkness. the Living with the dead.

    alive by the grace and mercy of God in Christ Jesus.

    Seems to me (in a small space between 2 ears) that if God exists for himself in the way we do (in the moments we regret) then, by reason of his infinite power and authority, he can make anyone he wants, use them for his purposes, and throw them away— or worse, to show that he answers to no one but himself.

    seems to me He has Redeemed the time, the space, and the things that really matter. a heart a mind and a soul.

    i like this verse 1 Thessalonians 5:23
    Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    sometimes i think the body of no importance, not in this verse. our body is the connection to a wilderness experience when our hearts are in Heaven. where they are protected from moth rust and thieves.

    thinking of Isaiah, ” Who will go?” thinking of Jesus serving at the last supper in the upper room. thinking of the 23 Psalm preparing a table before me in the present of my enemies. will i serve broken bread and poured out wine? bread from heaven and living water? no law against love joy peace patients kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness self control. light in darkness
    taste Great less filling, i have had enough of pride.

    Jesus said He would send a Helper to take His place. we have not been abandoned , ever! .

  23. Beloved says:

    Meanwhile, while we wait. .. some really good stuff is happening in heaven. I add these verses onto Marts last sentence, “If he does all that to show … then….” 7:24-27
    24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

    26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

  24. Beloved says:

    I think we do tend to make God according to our human fallen ways of thinking, more often than not. Even the very best of human behaviour comes no where close to Perfection. Basically, what I’m thinking is God IS incredibly patient with us, knowing we do the best we can with the guidance of scripture, the Holy Spirit and a little help from our friends (more important than we know actually). Legalism we learned is like a never-ending sludge draining into a bottomless pit. Dark dark dark. What in the world was satan doing in the Garden in the first place??? Seems we need YHWH very much. Does He need us? Well, He sure went to a LOT of trouble for us. John said “God is love”. Love is selfless. Love is so powerful it has to be given away. Fancy that, that we are the recipients of Gods love. So who needs who? Its mutual within the love loop, winners only, light light light!

  25. Beloved says:

    (i know why satan was in the garden, I’m just being human lol)

  26. foreverblessed says:

    That God is infinitely higher than we are, that is so true.
    God existed from ever and ever.
    It is just a strange idea, but when I read Genesis 1
    where it is said: It is not good that man would be alone.
    I always think, that God, who existed from eternity, just got a bit alone. And that He started all this, because He wanted company.

    He is busy getting a bride ready for His Son.
    It is, as Beloved said:
    One great Love party.

    “Let Him kiss me with the kisses of His mouth”
    Song of Songs 1:2

    (And my utmopst of today is very good, it makes something more plain to me: The sin, the fallen state is my right to myself,
    “but that the disposition of sin, viz., my claim to my right to myself, entered into the human race by one man, and that another Man took on Him the sin of the human race and put it away (Hebrews 9:26) — an infinitely profounder revelation.”)

  27. SFDBWV says:

    Glenna’s married granddaughter with young children of her own, along with some friends, have started their own blog for people to express their “forbidden” questions concerning Christianity.

    Glenna ask me to look in on it because she was both proud of Ashlynn’s ability to write, but worried about her “doubts”.

    It became obvious that these people wanted a place where they could vent their frustrations and questions without the presence or interference of people who counter their “doubts” with *faith*.

    They have heard all of the “church” answers and apologetics of Christian theologian’s, but still have nagging doubts.

    As I looked the few comments over it became clear that these people didn’t want answers, they just needed to “vent”.

    I told Ashlynn so and though I had already commented that a believer can’t intellectualize faith, I told her I would leave them alone to their “complaints” and have no more to say.

    As a believer myself I have to cover my unanswered questions and unanswered prayers with faith.

    Sometimes the personal troubles we suffer are overwhelming and as serious as they get.

    When we cry out to God and ask “why” with no reply we are left to either try to answer “why” from our own intellect or just, with much effort, leave it be and trust God.

    If God exited only for us, all we ever would need do is ask and receive, but that just isn’t always how it is.

    Sometimes He uses us for the benefit of another and in those situations it is we who exist for Him.

    Is it a matter of weakness to believe in something that gives us hope, or is it the ultimate example of courage to have hope in the bleakest of circumstances against all common sense by trusting ourselves to a seeming unseen, seeming silent, God?

    I choose God because He wants me to and maybe He needs me to. I only hope if it is He needs me, I am up to the task at hand.

    I think maybe the, who for who is actually that we need each other, as one without the other is mute and incomplete.

    This subject seems to have made us think a little deeper. Thanks Mart.

    Steve

  28. poohpity says:

    Yes bubbles, God existed before time as we know it began. He always was. But I have never understood Him to be alone at any time. The first peek into that is when He told Moses to write down; Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

    Then again in Gen 11:7 Come, let US go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.”

    People have doubted the existence of God since not soon after creation. Why would God want a relationship with us? Why do we want a relationship with our children?

    How can we give witness to someone else of our beliefs if we have trouble believing and have major doubts ourselves about God and His goodness or do not know very much about God to answer hard questions and we have to have the ability to say, “I just don’t know either” but I have faith.

  29. Beloved says:

    Forever I used to think that God needed me, but as I’ve studied more and more about the Holiness of God I am learning He is completely self-sufficient and not lacking in any thing, need, advice or companionship. Like when I first learned that God didn’t come from anywhere but has always existed! That alone boggles my mind! There are some mysteries about God we are not equipped to know or understand. We’ve seen how the ancients and us today are trying to wrap our heads around things like love, justice and mercy, all of which are His attributes. I personally feel smaller and smaller trying even to comprehend Him. But I remember He is good! And He IS love, those healing balms give me peace. How does He do that? Must be how He created us ( Imago Deo) by giving us the capacity to know goodness and love and of course, evil. Oh He’s sooo good!

  30. Beloved says:

    Further thoughts about evil. We only knew evil because of satan interfering with the one rule given to us in the very beginning- eat everything but not from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Did God know how gullible, how selfish, how easily deceived we are? Of course– He made us– but He made us a little lower than the angels, why? Because we are made from the dust and return to dust? Seems like the created needs the Creator.

    Oh I’m getting dizzy thinking about this, time for another cup of coffee.

  31. Beloved says:

    Agree Steve faith is vital to our relationship with God, faith that Jesus blood has paid for our sin debt! Don’t stop telling Gods Truth in the midst of whats known as a crooked and perverse world.

  32. Beloved says:

    Patience…
    Remembering how patient God is with us and how unalarmed He is by our questions, like a good Dad.

  33. Beloved says:

    Agreeing with what you said, pooh. “I just dont know” is a good response. Searching out the heart of God is a personal individual journey I think. In the searching is how we find God.

  34. street says:

    some random thoughts from reading todays post.
    He Who knew no sin, knew the penalty for sin. freely receiving the penalty for those He loved according to His Fathers will, according to the Scriptures of the law and the prophets.

    Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

    He made man out of dust and gave him His own breath. when man listen to satan and believed him, man died and was separated from God by sin. God cursed the ground and said satan would eat dust all his days. his days are coming to an end. i find it interesting satan is fighting over the body of moses later on. i guess it was not dust yet.

    i find it interesting that satan is looking for a body, yet will not find one that will last. just as man was not fit, God created a body, Jesus, to do His will. thinking of demons coming on a herd of pigs and refusing to live with them, let alone satan. in the end satan will reject and kill his children and his bride. this will be the only time God and satan will be on the same page so to speak, yet forever separated. babylon has fallen.

    the elect/remnant will be saved and give God Great Glory. all because of Jesus. they overcame by the blood of the Lamb of God.

    Isaiah 40:3
    A voice of one calling: “In the wilderness prepare the way for the Lord; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

    1 Corinthians 15:32
    If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained?

    9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

    strength is in Christ, Spirit and Truth, not the flesh.

  35. Beloved says:

    Steve I was speaking to myself as well. I forget that God asks much less of me than I expect of myself. But when He does want me to say/do something its very easy so best to wait and listen for Dads guidance. Anyway, I apologize for trying to intervene in your life. Sorry please forgive me. You’ve got a full load already.

  36. SFDBWV says:

    Joyce don’t worry, the lord and I have a long history of my learning when He wants me to speak and when He wants me to be silent.

    I have learned to recognize an open door from a briary prick.

    And more importantly to recognize His urges and unction’s.

    Your feelings are safe with me, we are fine.

    Steve

  37. Beloved says:

    Warning off topic, read at will:

    Senator Collins speech just now was great! Level heads are needed in government.

  38. SFDBWV says:

    In an attempt to discern the nature of God we really need only look at the little we have written concerning the example of Jesus.

    John says if all Jesus did were written the world could not contain the books.

    It might help if we had some more of those books.

    That is if it is important to us the know everything.

    Then again if I consider the fact that since Jesus’ coming the billions of lives that have been effected by His influence, maybe the books John refers to are the un-numbered billions of lives that Jesus has changed, saved, altered and made the ultimate difference in.

    If perhaps we take some time to look at the better nature of the lives we see people live, we can see that nature of God we fail to see so clearly provided.

    As in we “can’t see the forest for the trees” old adage.

    It is a cause for scratching our head in wonder when we read that God regretted having made man. Yet there it is written that He regretted having made man because of the evil that is continually in man’s heart.

    Rather than just throwing mankind away though God used Noah and his family to repopulate the world and a way to bring mankind back into a relationship with Him.

    It would seem that God made man for a different purpose than Adam and Eve’s sin altered.

    That being said for us to try and determine “who for who” is missing the ingredient of original intent and purpose.

    If I take away the fall of man and look only at what occurred with the story of creation, what I see is that God created something “good” that pleased Him and gave Adam a perfect existence in harmony and peace.

    But…

    God seen that something was missing for Adam.

    From the beginning God’s concern was for His creation, not for His *glory*, but toward His creation.

    In my mind He has not changed, His heart is still toward His creation and there is nothing He would not do for it, even if it meant being stripped of His glory to save it.

    Steve

  39. poohpity says:

    Why would we need more than what we already we have, speaking about the bible? No matter how much we are given, God is so beyond anything we can even think or imagine and half the time we do not use what we do have to grow to know Him better. Shoot even in most fleshy relationships how much time do people put into getting to know someone else because we most often push our own thoughts on others and if they think for themselves we find it a personal insult, getting angry with them. Romans 8:30-31 NLT

    If we think about God the way we think about ourselves which is selfishly then our perspective is very tarnished and as Mart said we consider people throwaways and not worth much but God seems to consider us worthwhile and of value to want to spend eternity with each and every one of us. John 3:16-17

  40. poohpity says:

    How many of us actually know the number of hairs that are on the head of someone we love but God does? Luke 12:7; Matt 6:26

  41. street says:

    as i think about who for who, the saying from the musketeer’s has come to mind more than once, “all for One and One for all.”

  42. foreverblessed says:

    God for us!

    Yesterday there was on ODB something that really touched me.
    Whatever goes wrong Jesus can make right!
    Jesus restored Jesus regenerates, He makes new what was spoiled.

    The stain on the wall, I envision red wine on white plaster, the wall was ruined. Then:
    “A man seated nearby said, “Don’t worry.” Rising, he took a painting implement from his pocket and began to sketch around the ugly stain. Slowly there emerged the head of a magnificent stag. The man was Sir E. H. Landseer, Scotland’s foremost animal artist.”

    A great artist!
    Jesus is the greatest Artist! The Creator.

    The Gospel is such a positive news! He is the One Who makes the Bride bright and beautiful!

    And I need to put my thoughts on what Jesus does, with all the negativity around.
    Whatever has gone wrong can be made right!
    The Light that shines in darkness

  43. jeff1 says:

    God will make a way
    Where there seems to be no way
    He works in ways we cannot see
    He will make a way for me

    He will be my guide
    Hold me closely to His side
    With love and strength for each new day
    He will make a way, He will make a way

    Oh, God will make a way
    Where there seems to be no way
    He works in ways we cannot see
    He will make a way for me

    He will be my guide
    Hold me closely to His side
    With love and strength for each new day
    He will make a way, He will make a way

    By a roadway in the wilderness, He’ll lead me
    And rivers in the desert will I see
    Heaven and Earth will fade but His Word will still remain
    He will do something new today

    Oh, God will make a way
    Where there seems to be no way
    He works in ways we cannot see
    He will make a way for me

    He will be my guide
    Hold me closely to His side
    With love and strength for each new day
    He will make a way, He will make a way

    Oh, God will make a way
    Where there seems to be no way
    He works in ways we cannot see
    He will make a way for me

    He will be my guide
    Hold me closely to His side
    With love and strength for each new day
    He will make a way, He will make a way

    With love and strength for each new day
    He will make a way, He will make a wa

  44. street says:

    10
    Create in me a pure heart, O God,
    and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
    11
    Do not cast me from your presence
    or take your Holy Spirit from me.
    12
    Restore to me the joy of your salvation
    and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.

    sustained in wise self controlled selfless love, because you first loved us. i think i skipped the peace patience kindness goodness gentleness. love encompassing all fruits of the Spirit. love working it’s self out in faith and hope in the darkness in Spirit and Truth.

  45. jeff1 says:

    When my heart is overwhelmed
    And my eyes are blind to You
    And the pain of life is just too heavy to bear

    And then the mountains seems so high
    And my faith’s too weak to climb
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    When my life is hit with fear
    And I fight to hide the tears
    And I wrestle in my heart to know what to do

    Lord, I’m welling up inside
    But I know You hear my cry
    Jesus, lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    You are the rock and there is no other
    A tower of strength, You are my shelter
    Lord, You are my hope eternal
    You are the rock that is higher than I

    You are the rock and there is no other, oh
    A tower of strength, You are my shelter
    Lord, You are my hope eternal
    You are the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh

  46. poohpity says:

    Viv, both those songs certainly reflect that it is God who is here for us. He is our source of all that is strong, good, loving, merciful and gracious. We would not have known such things without Him in the first place as we have seen from history. Sometimes people take those things for granted and therefore do not recognize the source any longer.

    Jesus said that God would not leave us as orphans after the resurrection just as He has not left mankind since the very beginning.

    John 14: “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”

  47. poohpity says:

    Love, where did it come from and how do we even know what it is? God alone is the source, the definition and the fulfillment.

    Who for who?
    Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

    1 John 4: Dear friends, let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God. 8But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
    9God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. 10This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins.
    11Dear friends, since God loved us that much, we surely ought to love each other. 12No one has ever seen God. But if we love each other, God lives in us, and his love is brought to full expression in us.

  48. jeff1 says:

    From our Holy Communion Service a hymn that reiterates God’s faithfulness.

    Here, O my Lord, I see Thee face to face;
    here would we touch and handle things unseen;
    hear grasp with firmer hand eternal grace
    and all my weariness upon Thee lean.

    Here would I feed upon the bread of God
    here drink with Thee the royal wine of heav’n;
    here would we lay aside each earthly load,
    hear taste afresh the calm of sin forgiv’n.

    This is the hour of banquet and of song;
    this is the heavenly table spread for me;
    hear let me feast, and feasting, still prolong
    the brief, bright hour of fellowship with Thee.

    Too soon we rise, the symbols disappear;
    the feast,, though not the love is past and done;
    gone are the bread and wine, but Though art here,
    nearer than ever, still my Shield and Sun.

    Feast after feast thus comes, and passes by;
    yet passing, points to the glad feast above;
    giving sweet foretaste of the festal joy,
    the Lamb’s great bridal feast of bliss and l

  49. jeff1 says:

    love.

  50. Beloved says:

    Love (III)
    BY GEORGE HERBERT
    Love bade me welcome. Yet my soul drew back
    Guilty of dust and sin.
    But quick-eyed Love, observing me grow slack
    From my first entrance in,
    Drew nearer to me, sweetly questioning,
    If I lacked any thing.

    A guest, I answered, worthy to be here:
    Love said, You shall be he.
    I the unkind, ungrateful? Ah my dear,
    I cannot look on thee.
    Love took my hand, and smiling did reply,
    Who made the eyes but I?

    Truth Lord, but I have marred them: let my shame
    Go where it doth deserve.
    And know you not, says Love, who bore the blame?
    My dear, then I will serve.
    You must sit down, says Love, and taste my meat:
    So I did sit and eat.

  51. street says:

    a Love so untameable and so Good

  52. foreverblessed says:

    When I opened my computer, there still was the Utmost of October 5,
    the disposition of sin: My claim to my right to myself
    ” but that the disposition of sin, viz., my claim to my right to myself, entered into the human race by one man, and that another Man took on Him the sin of the human race and put it away (Hebrews 9:26) — ”

    Sorry for being out of topic, but the realization still has to sink in,
    The right to myselff, even if I follow godly rules, but still I am my own God.

    quoting Chambers again:
    “The disposition of sin is not immorality and wrong-doing, but the disposition of self-realization — I am my own god. This disposition may work out in decorous morality or in indecorous immorality, but it has the one basis, my claim to my right to myself. When Our Lord faced men with all the forces of evil in them, and men who were clean living and moral and up right, He did not pay any attention to the moral degradation of the one or to the moral attainment of the other; He looked at something we do not see, viz., the disposition.”

    That makes me think of the two brothers, the lost one, and the oldest one, who remained at home, and did all his duties, but still had not the joy, the godly joy being with his Father.

    Jesus came to rescue us from that disposition.
    He came to rescue a Bride from the mud, and make her clean and holy.

    A Love relation.
    Have a blessed day!

  53. jeff1 says:

    Oh Love, that wilt not let me go,
    I rest my weary soul in Thee;
    I give Thee back the life I owe,
    That in Thine ocean depths its flow
    May richer, fuller be.

    Oh Light, that followest all my way,
    I yield my flickering torch to Thee;
    My heart restores its borrowed ray,
    Then in Thy sunshine’s blaze its day
    May brighter, fairer be.

    O Joy, that seekest me through pain,
    I cannot close my heart to Thee;
    I trace the rainbow through the rain,
    And feel the promise is not vain
    That morn shall tearless be.

    O Cross, that liftest up my head,
    I dare not ask to fly from Thee;
    I lay in dust’s life glory dead,
    And from the ground their blossoms red
    Life that shall endless be.

  54. poohpity says:

    The picture up above is from the parable of “The Prodigal Son”. It would seem that the son who remained by his father’s side probably did not believe that the there was enough love to go around and thought that his love was earned by the things he did rather than what was in the heart of the Father.

    My children do not have to do anything to earn my love it is just there. However I do come to tears when I see them make decisions that will bring harm to them or to others but my love never falters. So are they here for me or am I here for them. I would say I am here for them but they are a blessing to me nonetheless to not only show them love but to get it in return but if they do not give it in return I still love them.

    Did I give birth to them to get love? No but some people do think that way little do they know before hand about their rebellion and sometimes even hate, there is usually nothing they can do to show love unless they have been taught to love. Love is a learned action because what we feel is love comes and goes, in and out and in the end it is to seek what is in the best interest of the one loved.

  55. poohpity says:

    Oh Viv, in today’s Our Daily Bread it talks about God singing to us. I thought you may like to read it or you can click on the button and have them read it to you.

  56. Beloved says:

    Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. However, we tend to project our fickle feelings onto God.

    This from Jesus Calling today. I thought it a good reminder. Blessed day all! With Gods love, Joyce

  57. jeff1 says:

    Pooh, that God sings to us is difficult for me to grasp and so good to know, thank you I enjoyed reading it.

  58. poohpity says:

    That was something new I learned today and it is difficult for me to grasp too.

  59. jeff1 says:

    Yes, always seem to be learning with God but seems to be a slow learner when it comes to understanding and so always struggling to comprehend. Songs are so easy for me to grasp compared to trying to read books which are lengthy and require concentration and understanding that I so lack. It amazes me how God finds a way to communicate even through song and it also overwhelms me as to Him going to such lengths.

  60. street says:

    thinking about joy happiness pleasure sorrows bitterness and the lament. thinking about how God holds us together in the darkness, sustaining the work of His Hands with His presents. if it had not been for Christ we would have become like………

  61. jeff1 says:

    1 Love divine, all loves excelling,
    joy of heav’n, to earth come down,
    fix in us Thy humble dwelling;
    all Thy faithful mercies crown.
    Jesus, Thou art all compassion;
    pure, unbounded love Thou art;
    visit us with Thy salvation;
    enter ev’ry trembling heart.

    2 Breathe, O breathe Thy loving Spirit
    into ev’ry troubled breast!
    Let us all in Thee inherit;
    let us find the promised rest.
    Take away the love of sinning;
    Alpha and Omega be;
    end of faith, as its beginning,
    set our hearts at liberty.

    3 Come, Almighty, to deliver;
    let us all Thy life receive;
    suddenly return and never,
    nevermore Thy temples leave.
    Thee we would be always blessing,
    serve Thee as Thy hosts above,
    pray and praise Thee without ceasing,
    glory in Thy perfect love.

    4 Finish then Thy new creation;
    pure and spotless let us be.
    Let us see Thy great salvation
    perfectly restored in Thee.
    Changed from glory into glory,
    till in heav’n we take our place,
    till we cast our crowns before Thee,
    lost in wonder, love, and praise.

  62. Beloved says:

    thinking about how God holds us together in the darkness, sustaining the work of His Hands with His presents.

    Thankyou, love this thought. Reminds me of how He also keeps the universe running smoothly. His responses to Job come to mind, and His promise to keep us safe until He returns. Thank you Jesus, Dad, Holy Spirit.

  63. Beloved says:

    2 Timothy NLV For this reason, I am suffering. But I am not ashamed. I know the One in Whom I have put my trust. I am sure He is able to keep safe that which I have trusted to Him until the day He comes again.

  64. street says:

    Psalm 147:10
    He takes no pleasure in the strength of a horse
    or in human might.
    11
    No, the Lord’s delight is in those who fear him,
    those who put their hope in his unfailing love.

  65. street says:

    God gave the full measure of His Love in His Son, grace and mercy to conform us to the Image of His Son. He became one of us so we could become like Him. no shame in being human, but how corrupt we had become. no Greater Hope than what Christ has done for us!

    1 Peter 4:11
    Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

  66. street says:

    Jude 1:25
    to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

    thinking about being Mastered in Spirit and Truth from oswald chambers writings. a love that Masters the heart the soul the mind and the flesh.

    most satisfied when God is most Glorified. piper

    9 As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

  67. jeff1 says:

    In my wrestling and in my doubts
    In my failures You won’t walk out
    Your great love will lead me through
    You are the peace in my troubled sea, oh oh
    You are the peace in my troubled sea

    In the silence, You won’t let go
    In the questions, Your truth will hold
    Your great love will lead me through
    You are the peace in my troubled sea, oh oh
    You are the peace in my troubled sea

    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse
    Shining in the darkness, I will follow You
    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (oh oh)
    I will trust the promise,
    You will carry me safe to shore ((Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore

    I won’t fear what tomorrow brings
    With each morning I’ll rise and sing
    My God’s love will lead me through
    You are the peace in my troubled sea, oh oh
    You are the peace in my troubled sea, oh oh

    You are my light
    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Shining in the darkness, I will follow You (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    I will trust the promise,
    You will carry me safe to shore (Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore

    Fire before us, You’re the brightest
    You will lead us through the storms

    Fire before us, You’re the brightest
    You will lead us through the storms

    Fire before us, You’re the brightest
    You will lead us through the storms

    Fire before us, You’re the brightest
    You will lead us through the storms

    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Shining in the darkness, I will follow You (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)Oh-oh-oh-oh-ohMy Lighthouse, my lighthouse (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    I will trust the promise,
    You will carry me safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore

  68. jeff1 says:

    In my wrestling and in my doubts
    In my failures You won’t walk out
    Your great love will lead me through
    You are the peace in my troubled sea, oh oh
    You are the peace in my troubled sea

    In the silence, You won’t let go
    In the questions, Your truth will hold
    Your great love will lead me through
    You are the peace in my troubled sea, oh oh
    You are the peace in my troubled sea

    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse
    Shining in the darkness, I will follow You
    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (oh oh)
    I will trust the promise,
    You will carry me safe to shore ((Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore

    I won’t fear what tomorrow brings
    With each morning I’ll rise and sing
    My God’s love will lead me through
    You are the peace in my troubled sea, oh oh
    You are the peace in my troubled sea, oh oh

    You are my light
    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Shining in the darkness, I will follow You (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    I will trust the promise,
    You will carry me safe to shore (Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore

    Fire before us, You’re the brightest
    You will lead us through the storms

    Fire before us, You’re the brightest
    You will lead us through the storms

    Fire before us, You’re the brightest
    You will lead us through the storms

    Fire before us, You’re the brightest
    You will lead us through the storms

    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Shining in the darkness, I will follow You (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    My Lighthouse, my lighthouse (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    I will trust the promise,
    You will carry me safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore (Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh)
    Safe to shore

  69. foreverblessed says:

    Thanks Jeff, for that song. The song you posted yesterday morning, I sent to a friend who would have a heavy operation in the hospital, in years, God is with us. That she would read it in the evening when she was able to read. But her smartphone was stolen while she was being operated.
    I am just now on the hospital, she is doing fine. Learning to trust, even when things go wrong. Many many things are going wrong, too late, unnecessary things happening to her, wrong decisions by the medical people. Cancer is the big problem, bug many side issues that have been overlooked in her body. You could easily ask God, where were You?
    Like the sisters of Lazarus, Jesus came too late. He did, Lazarus had died!
    And then this song:
    My Lighthouse
    God leads us through the storm, He does not prevent the storm from happening.
    To still trust, even when seemingly nothing happens, no intervention.
    “Wait upon the Lord
    And your strength is growing”
    Psalm 27:14
    ( My own words)

  70. poohpity says:

    In that Isaiah passage God said, “My glory I will not give to another.”. Then again in Psalm 46: 10 He says, “”Be still, and know that I am God! I will be honored by every nation. I will be honored throughout the world.” If a person really realizes who God is, what He is capable of doing yet still wants to take credit for the things only God can do actually is trying to take glory for themselves. Then it would come to reason they, in all actuality, do not know God at all. Which as was said above in the questions that God asked Job, “where were you when I laid the foundations of the world?”.

    How many actually try to play god to their children, community and household? That oh so small immediate circle around them when they do not realize they are only but a small particle of sand in the grand scheme of things around them.

    Who am I, that the Lord of all the earth
    Would care to know my name,
    Would care to feel my hurt?
    Who am I, that the Bright and Morning Star
    Would choose to light the way
    For my ever wandering heart?

    Not because of who I am
    But because of what You’ve done.
    Not because of what I’ve done
    But because of who You are.

    CHORUS:

    I am a flower quickly fading,
    Here today and gone tomorrow.
    A wave tossed in the ocean.
    A vapor in the wind.
    Still You hear me when I’m calling.
    Lord, You catch me when I’m falling.
    And You’ve told me who I am.

    I am Yours, I am Yours.

    Who am I, that the eyes that see my sin
    Would look on me with love and watch me rise again?
    Who am I, that the voice that calmed the sea
    Would call out through the rain
    And calm the storm in me?

    Not because of who I am
    But because of what You’ve done.
    Not because of what I’ve done
    But because of who You are.

    CHORUS:

    I am a flower quickly fading,
    Here today and gone tomorrow.
    A wave tossed in the ocean.
    A vapor in the wind.
    Still You hear me when I’m calling.
    Lord, You catch me when I’m falling.
    And You’ve told me who I am.

    I am Yours, I am Yours.

    Not because of who I am
    But because of what You’ve done.
    Not because of what I’ve done
    But because of who You are.

    CHORUS:

    I am a flower quickly fading,
    Here today and gone tomorrow.
    A wave tossed in the ocean.
    A vapor in the wind.
    Still You hear me when I’m calling.
    Lord, You catch me when I’m falling.
    And You’ve told me who I am.

    I am Yours, I am Yours, I am Yours.

    Whom shall I fear?

    Whom shall I fear?

    ‘Cause I am Yours, I am Yours.

  71. poohpity says:

    Romans 8: 22 For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us. 24 We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don’t need to hope for it. 25 But if we look forward to something we don’t yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.)

    26 And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. 27 And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God’s own will. 28 And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. 29 For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.

    The question, “Who for Who?” then becomes very simple to answer. God is for us!

  72. poohpity says:

    People who boast about how important they are in their communities (2 Cor 10:12 NLT) often do things like 2 Cor 12:20 NLT. Let those who boast, boast in what the Lord has done in their lives. The change in theirs heart and in their thinking which will effect their actions then the glory and praise goes to where it belongs to the Lord who refreshes and renews.

  73. street says:

    Our inability to know what to ask for when we pray is part of a bigger story. According to Paul’s letter to the Romans, there’s a lot more we can’t do for ourselves. We also can’t avoid the consequences of our own choices, change our own hearts, make ourselves right with God, or even live up to our own expectations (Romans 4:5; 6:23; 7:18–21). Yet Paul doesn’t leave us helpless and hopeless. He begins and ends chapter 8 showing us how to rise on wings of wonder. Could anything lift us higher than to know that we also can’t do anything that would cause the God who is for us to stop helping and loving us? (vv. 11, 31–39). Mart DeHaan Who for who?

  74. Beloved says:

    Street, I praise God, you have no idea how much I needed to read your post @10:57. After the last two womens Bible studies I’m in on Job with the emphasis on the sins of elihu I find myself begging for mercy! Reading your post puts everything back into Perspective. Its important to balance sin with grace. Not all teachers do this well. I’m a crushed mess but remembered God does not break us, but restores and heals. Thanks. Actually its a good reminder that we cannot save each other, like your post, only God can. And those filled with the Holy Spirit are often clueless about what God is doing. Who needs who? We all need more of the Spirit of God because dust has no substance within itself. Grateful tears here.

  75. street says:

    beloved that was a cut and paste from ODB from mart dehaan at the bottom of today’s devotional. it felt kinda strange posting mart on his own blog. i have to admit it sums up some of the things he tries to get us to understand or even forget on a regular basis. God says He will not forget us. to get past failure, sin and death, and into a place of loving God with out heart soul and mind with a Holy Spirit. i understand we have been given one. a Spirit that maintains and keep God’s intent and purpose of each individual soul/person. to conform them to the image of His Son complete. brothers sons children of God. made alive in Christ.

  76. jeff1 says:

    Lead us, heavenly Father, lead us
    o’er the world’s tempestuous sea;
    guard us, guide us, keep us, feed us,
    for we have no help but Thee;
    yet possessing every blessing,
    if our God our Father be.

    Saviour, breathe forgiveness o’er us;
    all our weakness thou dost know;
    Thou didst tread this earth before us;
    Thou didst feel its keenest woe;
    yet unfearing, persevering,
    to Thy passion Thou didst go.

    Spirit of our God descending,
    fill our hearts with heavenly joy;
    love with every passion blending
    pleasure that can never cloy;
    Thus provided, pardoned, guided,
    nothing can our peace destroy.

  77. Beloved says:

    Street I don’t always read ODB but God gave me what I needed to hear at just the right time. He’s so good.

  78. foreverblessed says:

    Beloved, your comment was the 77th!

    For all who feel inadequate:
    ( from God at eventide, October 10)

    Peter’s Example

    My child, I will never fail you.

    My Promise is not dependent upon your perfection, only upon your accepting My Will and striving ever to walk in it.

    But, for your happiness, I give you Divine Assurance that though you may fail in achievement, if not in desire, I cannot plead human frailty, so My Promises must be fulfilled.

    When I chose Peter I saw in him not only one who after failure and denial, would become a Power for Me in My Strength; I chose him that others, frail and weak, might take courage as they remembered My Love and forgiveness, and his subsequent spiritual progress.


    It says: if not in desire!

    Our desire goes out to the Lord!
    That is His connection with us.
    In the New Convenant, it is the promise of God that He will do His part, if we have faith in Jesus!

  79. jeff1 says:

    I am not concerned for my own faith because I have seen God work enough times to trust His ways.

    I believe I have always needed God more than He needed me though I also believe God uses my weaknesses for His purpose but that could be wishful thinking on my part.

    I do find it challenging to live with family who do not share my faith and I seem to be loosing the battle in convincing them that God is on their’s.

    As far as they are concerned I am living in the dark ages believing in God while they live in the real world which though most of them would admit is not ideal it is as far as they see what you make of it.

    From what I see those who do not believe in God believe they have to be tough themselves to survive in a world without Him.

    That’s not a world I want to live but I have to agree with non believers that it is the world we live in.

    I’m A Citizen Of Two Worlds

    Jesus promised He was going to prepare us a mansion.
    We’ll move in it when the earth shall set us free,
    Living on the earth but everyday we’re closer to heaven.
    For we know that where He is we too shall be

    Chorus
    I’m a citizen of two worlds and it’s hard to choose between them.
    I live here, but my home you cannot see.
    I’m a citizen of heaven where I’m gonna have a mansion.
    My real home right now is calling me
    Verse 2
    Sometimes now it seems I don’t feel at home where I’m living
    Sometimes I just want to pack and move away
    Just like Paul I’m in a straight between going and staying
    I’ll keep working for my Lord ’til moving day
    Chorus
    I’m a citizen of two worlds and it’s hard to choose between them
    I live here, but my home you cannot see
    I’m a citizen of heaven where I’m going to have a mansion
    My real home right now is calling me
    Chorus
    I’m a citizen of two worlds and it’s hard to choose between them
    I live here, but my home you cannot see
    I’m a citizen of heaven where I’m going to have a mansion
    My real home right now is calling me
    Tag
    My real home right now is calling me

  80. foreverblessed says:

    My real hom eright now is calling me.
    Jeff, I just saw the comment again, you posted about CS Lewis, about Purgatory,
    Or maybe, as I should see it what he meant to say:
    Being purged.
    The believer who sees the beauty, the holiness of heaven, and then sees hisown dirty clothes, and mud, and stains, and he asks: Purge me first.
    That is such a good comment!
    I see life now, as God saving us, and after He has saved us from the dark evil kingdom, He cleanses us.
    We cannot go into heaven without being made holy, having new clothes, white and bright linen.

    So I say, don’t take me yet! Finish Your job

    Beloved, and many others have written, this topic is about a love relation!

    The Bride being made ready for the Bridegroom, that is Jesus

    Ephesians 5:26b
    …as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

    CS Lewis:
    “The right view returns magnificently in Newman’s DREAM.
    There, if I remember it rightly, the saved soul, at the very foot of the throne, begs to be taken away and cleansed.
    It cannot bear for a moment longer ‘With it’s darkness to affront the light’. Religion has claimed Purgatory.”

    In the bible, anyone who had seen God, would fall down flat, and beg for mercy.

    (When we are in the full Light of God’s glory, everything that is hidden and not covered by the blood of Jesus, will be made visible, is to be seen by everybody. I have heard that those who die, and are in the Light, get scared and flee into dark places, so as not to be seen.
    The ones that are frightened by their own sin, instead of believing that giving them to Jesus, that He has carried the price for them, and they are thrown into the sea, and gone, they flee far away, into the darkness.)

    But this man, Newman, in his dream, sees his dirt,m and he begs for being cleansed, and that is a beautiful reaction. The state of a humble person.

    In life we will be disciplined, we are not only saved, we are also purified, made whole, as the verse of the day of Biblegateway says to us:

    Listen to advice and accept discipline, and at the end you will be counted among the wise. Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails.
    Proverbs 19:20-21

    (Jeff, it is good to read that God has a purpose for those who you pray. His purpose will prevail. As He has saved Saul, who became Paul, He can save anyone, at least that is my opinion, I take these words of Paul as literal 1 Timothy 1:15-17)

  81. poohpity says:

    It is very common even for Christians to fall prey to the flesh to deny that is to deny reality I think that is why Paul wrote what he did in Romans 7:15, 18, 23; Gal 5:17 But there is a BUT the answer to that struggle is Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross that gave us the choice to take a step back because He has given us the power to do good rather than paying so much attention to the war with the flesh and the Spirit. So our eyes can be no longer on us but to change that focus to the Lord and think about Him, sing about Him and read about Him.(Romans 8:5)

  82. poohpity says:

    It would seem the simple purpose of God for us is to be in a relationship with Him, so that He can be our God and we can be His people. It is amazing to think that God wants a relationship with me/us. WOW!?!!???

  83. poohpity says:

    That alone should fill anyone with a joy beyond comprehension.

  84. foreverblessed says:

    Just read the Utmost for today:
    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.
    1 John 1:17
    b or every 1 John 1:7

    We ARE cleansed.
    So in view of what I wrote above, about purgatory… am doing some more thinking about it.
    But one thing is plain to me: faith holds me to Christ.

    Chambers writes:
    “We do not grow into a spiritual relationship step by step— we either have a relationship or we do not. God does not continue to cleanse us more and more from sin— “But if we walk in the light,” we are cleansed “from all sin” (1 John 1:7). It is a matter of obedience, and once we obey, the relationship is instantly perfected. But if we turn away from obedience for even one second, darkness and death are immediately at work again.”

    I was going to stop here, but that is at a negative point, so some more copy and paste

    “All of God’s revealed truths are sealed until they are opened to us through obedience. You will never open them through philosophy or thinking. But once you obey, a flash of light comes immediately. Let God’s truth work into you by immersing yourself in it, not by worrying into it. “

  85. street says:

    Matthew 27:43
    He trusts in God; let God rescue Him now, if He delights in Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”

    Psalm 22:8
    “Commit yourself to the Lord; let Him deliver him; Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him.”

    Psalm 37:4
    Delight yourself in the Lord; And He will give you the desires of your heart.

  86. Beloved says:

    21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation[g] under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister. colossians1

    I was just thinking of whether we accept Christ on our deathbed, ie, the thief on the cross, or we live 100 years walking with Him on earth that we will never be good enough to merit heaven (clean pure righteous), but, Christ became our righteouness, cleanness, purity when He gave Himself for us on that cruel cross. So let us rest with joy in the working out of our faith while here, knowing that our obedience brings glory and honor to God, no matter how unclean we look to others, knowing it is God who works in us to will and to do His good pleasure, (His timetable, not mine not others, which I am thankful to be learning).
    Focusing on asceticism can become idolatry. Focusing on Jesus is good, He was the only perfect human being, ever. God/man

    Who for who? I’m convinced its a love affair based on faith, hope and love. Mutual yet only because it came from God, who loved us so much He sent His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him will be saved. John 3:16

  87. poohpity says:

    forever, what do you think Chambers meant by obedience that instantly perfects our relationship with God? Obedience to what?

  88. Beloved says:

    From Morning and Evening

    “Faultless before the presence of his glory.”
    Jude 24

    Revolve in your mind that wondrous word, “faultless!” We are far off from it now; but as our Lord never stops short of perfection in his work of love, we shall reach it one day. The Saviour who will keep his people to the end, will also present them at last to himself, as “a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, but holy and without blemish.” All the jewels in the Saviour’s crown are of the first water and without a single flaw. All the maids of honour who attend the Lamb’s wife are pure virgins without spot or stain. But how will Jesus make us faultless? He will wash us from our sins in his own blood until we are white and fair as God’s purest angel; and we shall be clothed in his righteousness, that righteousness which makes the saint who wears it positively faultless; yea, perfect in the sight of God. We shall be unblameable and unreproveable even in his eyes. His law will not only have no charge against us, but it will be magnified in us. Moreover, the work of the Holy Spirit within us will be altogether complete. He will make us so perfectly holy, that we shall have no lingering tendency to sin. Judgment, memory, will–every power and passion shall be emancipated from the thraldom of evil. We shall be holy even as God is holy, and in his presence we shall dwell forever. Saints will not be out of place in heaven, their beauty will be as great as that of the place prepared for them. Oh the rapture of that hour when the everlasting doors shall be lifted up, and we, being made meet for the inheritance, shall dwell with the saints in light. Sin gone, Satan shut out, temptation past forever, and ourselves “faultless” before God, this will be heaven indeed! Let us be joyful now as we rehearse the song of eternal praise so soon to roll forth in full chorus from all the blood-washed host; let us copy David’s exultings before the ark as a prelude to our ecstasies before the throne.

  89. Beloved says:

    Praying for all in the path of hurricane Michael. May the LORD keep you safe.

  90. foreverblessed says:

    This is what Jesus could say to you ( command in Jesus’ wording):
    “Love Me until just to think of Me means Joy and rapture. Gladness at the thought of One very near and dear.”

    Or this, when fears attack you:
    “Are doubts and fears in your Hearts? Then think of Me, speak to Me. Instead of those fears and doubts there will flow into your hearts and beings such sweet Joy as is beyond any joy of earth.”

    Or when worries fill your heart:
    “Look at the birds of the air…”
    Matthew 6:25-34

    I am alsof praying for Florida and other states, how is Gary doing?
    In our country there is ingathering for Sulawesi, Indonesia. 5000 missing people! I pray God bless them, comfort them!

  91. foreverblessed says:

    Citations from God at eventide, October 8.
    Steve, I pray aan good day for you and yours, Gods blessing.

    God could command, the word sounds so harsh, maybe better: urges us whatever the Spirit has in Gods mind for us.

    Romans 12:1

  92. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed, thank you for your blessings and prayers. I don’t have much more to say concerning the subject and the thread of conversation seems to be between 2 or three people so I just stay as an observer unless led to comment.

    When I first came upon BTA I made a list of all the people that participated so I could communicate with them on a more personal level.

    Like our friend Gary many have gone silent, I know of only two whose deaths were shared with us, so though missed, the fate of rest remain unknown to us.

    I suppose we can still pray for them as well.

    Thank you again for your love and concern for us, may all of your prayers be realized sooner rather than later.

    Steve

  93. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you so very much Steve, I know for sure that in the life hereafter we will see what all our prayers have done, or rather how God has worked on our prayer.
    You can say for surity that God does not need us at all, however He has chosen to work through humans, Jesus has attached Himself as Head to the Body, and He is waiting for our prayers, He is even searching our hearts and minds, where to see what and where for intercession, Romans 8:27
    This is a profound mystery, God who needs nobody for His own life, needs us for the forming of His Bride.

    When I talked about commands of God, I am assuming I am writing to the ones who have obeyed the very first “command” (I put this in human terms, as Paul speaks in Romans 6:19 for in fact the love of God compels us, where does it say that in the bible)

    I am assuming we listened to:
    Believe in the One He has sent John 6:29
    Come to Me, all you who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest Matthew 11:28

    And the verse of today of Biblegateway is
    Psalm 62:1
    Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him.

    Wow, that is great, it is already so, my soul has found rest in God! And my salvation has come from Him, the One He has sent.

  94. jeff1 says:

    Forever’s post Oct 10 2018 at 5.34 am

    (Jeff, it is good to read that God has a purpose for those who you pray. His purpose will prevail. As He has saved Saul, who became Paul, He can save anyone, at least that is my opinion, I take these words of Paul as literal 1 Timothy 1:15-17Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)

    I too believe Forever that God finds a way as He has with myself and others because it is the greatest mystery of God that He is encompassing.

    God has chosen us (and for me the mind boggles) and for whatever His reason may the Lord make me truly thankful.

    God is for us more than I can understand but I believe that is because of the distractions in the world that in my weakness I falter as doubt sets in and in my case (mental illness) the mind is a playground for Satan.

    When I Get To The End Of The…

    The sands have been washed in the footprints Of the stranger on Galilee’s shore,
    And the voice that subdued the rough billows,
    Will be heard in Judea no more.
    But the path of that lone Galilean,
    With joy I will follow today;
    And the toils of the road will seem nothing,
    When I get to the end of the way.
    There are so many hills to climb upward,
    I often am longing for rest,
    But He who appoints me my pathway
    Knows just what is needful and best.
    I know in His word He hath promised
    That my strength, “it shall be as my day”;
    And the toils of the road will seem nothing,
    When I get to the end of the way.
    He loves me too well to forsake me,
    Or give me a trial too much;
    All His people have been dearly purchased,
    And Satan can never claim such.
    By and by I shall see Him and praise Him,
    In the city of unending day;
    And the toils of the road will seem nothing,
    When I get to the end of the way.
    When the last, feeble step has been taken,
    And the gates of that city appear,
    And the beautiful songs of the angels
    Float out on my listening ear;
    When all that now seems so mysterious
    Will be bright and as clear as the day,
    Then the toils of the road will seem nothing
    When I get to the end of the way.

  95. poohpity says:

    I know God does not need me however I believe that He wants me and I want Him because I do need Him. God can make anything happen with just a word spoken but to be part of His team is a privilege and a desire from deep within my heart.

    Has anyone ever watched those shows about Royal Families and all the traditions they must follow to protect the family name and yet to them that burden seems to be overwhelming because they are not able to function by being obedient to all the rules, formality, function it sort of takes away their individuality to be like living in a prison. Are they a living a life of show and pretense rather than reality? If they do something that does not fit in with tradition the family can pay off media not to report it, or fix the situation some other way. It is part of their job to be involved with humanitarian efforts and charities. When they are that famous their every move is inspected and evaluated by observers.

    Think of this our God is mightier and more powerful than any other Royalty yet He does not force His will on us, nor does He force His love on us. It is our choice to accept being in His Royal family but not to be put on a pedestal but to humbly serve and get our hands dirty by reaching out to people that others may never reach out to. So obedience in my opinion is not what changes or perfects our relationship with God it is His spirit living within us that does that, without our help. It is more like being available and willing to be submissive to His leading, the same good He had in mind for us is what comes out of us to others.

    We were saved for many reason one of which is to do good deeds. (Eph 2:10; Titus 2:14 NLT)

  96. poohpity says:

    John 13: 14 And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other’s feet. 15 I have given you an example to follow. Do as I have done to you. 16 I tell you the truth, slaves are not greater than their master. Nor is the messenger more important than the one who sends the message. 17 Now that you know these things, God will bless you for doing them.

  97. poohpity says:

    Jesus said that at the time they would not understand what He was doing but someday they would. John 13:7 Through out the NT our salvation is worked out in the mercy and grace we show others and that salvation results in being filled with the Holy Spirit and it is from that that leads us to do good works.

  98. poohpity says:

    Not how obedient we are but how close we are to the Lord.

  99. poohpity says:

    Romans 4: 13 Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. 14 If God’s promise is only for those who obey the law, then faith is not necessary and the promise is pointless. 15 For the law always brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!) 16 So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe. 17 That is what the Scriptures mean when God told him, “I have made you the father of many nations.” This happened because Abraham believed in the God who brings the dead back to life and who creates new things out of nothing.

  100. poohpity says:

    We bring glory to God by our faith in Him.

  101. jeff1 says:

    Three things will last forever–faith, hope and love–and the greatest of these is love.

    So many gifts
    Pour down unnoticed,
    Wonders unseen,
    Whispers unheard,
    All from the heart of our Father
    unchanging.
    Trust Him and see
    All that can be
    Here in His perfect love.

    Father and Lord,
    Love never sleeping,
    Love ever wise,
    Patient and strong,
    Love here and now, ever dying and rising,
    Father above,
    Fullness of love,
    Father, I rest in You.

    Held by Your love,
    I face the darkness,
    Turning from fear,
    Walking by faith.
    Here in this life every joy is a promise:
    All now begun
    Soon will be done,
    Heaven complete in You.

  102. Beloved says:

    (Psalms 147:11 NKJV) The LORD takes pleasure in those who fear Him, In those who hope in His mercy.

    (Psalms 149:4 NKJV) For the LORD takes pleasure in His people; He will beautify the humble with salvation.

  103. foreverblessed says:

    My Utmost, October 10, How will I know?

    ” If you obey God in the first thing He shows you, then He instantly opens up the next truth to you. You could read volumes on the work of the Holy Spirit, when five minutes of total, uncompromising obedience would make things as clear as sunlight. Don’t say, “I suppose I will understand these things someday!” You can understand them now. And it is not study that brings understanding to you, but obedience. Even the smallest bit of obedience opens heaven, and the deepest truths of God immediately become yours. Yet God will never reveal more truth about Himself to you, until you have obeyed what you know already. Beware of becoming one of the “wise and prudent.” “If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know…” (John 7:17).”

    John 7:16-18
    Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. 17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. 18 Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

  104. Beloved says:

    Forever, Spurgeon also agrees and connects faith with obedience.

    You and I must be willing to do what God tells us, as God tells us, when God tells us, because God tells us, but only strong faith will be equal to such complete obedience. C.H. Spurgeon

  105. Beloved says:

    Thinking further I remember we “walk by faith not by sight”. Who needs who? We are all born blind but Christ opens our eyes. Else we are like those blind guides Jesus talked about.

  106. bubbles says:

    Steve, hope your place is safe from high waters; it’s rained hard here all day. Thankful God sent rain to keep the woods wet for fall, though. Always think of those who live near creeks and rivers during hard rains.

  107. Beloved says:

    Who for who?

    If the Law showed us we could not obey then Jesus had to show us how to obey through His life and many teachings. We could not do it without Him! Faith without works is dead, said James. But the gift of God is life everlasting. Who for who?

  108. Beloved says:

    Seems to me (in a small space between 2 ears)…

    This paragraph makes me think of election. We know through scripture God chooses to bless(Israel), destroy, (Israel) and repair ( Israel). His repair was to include the Gentiles also so that all of mankind could be saved!Amazing! Seems He doesn’t do things as we would. (Unless we have God’s Spirit within to teach us and the desire to be obedient to the Truth). RC I think, or Piper, says election is not a “better than” but a wonderful calling to be one of Gods own people. Legalism would say it shows just how really bad some people are, because even God has rejected them! But have they, the rejected ones, (thinking of Judas, Annanias and Sophira) by refusing to repent of their evil works forced Gods hand to destroy them? Or, is Gods Holiness protection for His flock and Himself?
    Oh my, working myself into a tizzy. Jump in anyone.

  109. poohpity says:

    Did God destroy Judas, Ananias or Sapphira or did their own behavior have anything to do with it? Judas killed himself and the other two fell over dead because they got caught lying to the Holy Spirit that they did not even have to tell a lie because it was after all their own money to do with what they wanted. Has anyone ever lied to someone then get caught that very minute in that lie, almost like having a heart attack, the shock induced reaction.

    Knowing the Good News or the Gospel puts an end to any confusion or being in a tizzy. Listening to people who are legalistic but do not live under Grace know the difference which is certainly not Oswald Chambers which if you listen to his arguments about obedience they certainly are not about God’s grace. “He has “fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4), because he has set obedience first and grace second, thereby demeaning the Gospel. And the Gospel, the New Covenant itself, is far more radical in the Grace of “it is finished” than to put “obedience” as some kind of Golden Key to open the truths of God.”

  110. Beloved says:

    Pooh I remember years ago when I first started on the blog I mentioned Chambers and you said then you didn’t agree with him. Wonder why Mart and ODB would promote him if he was a heretic? Just something to think about. Is it at all possible you are misunderstanding? Not to pick a fight with you, just a question.

  111. Beloved says:

    15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.

    4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    And from that first disobedience came the fall of man.

  112. Beloved says:

    Romans 5:19
    For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

    Obedience was very important, then, and now! Jesus obedience opened the door for the grace and mercy of God to be poured out on all.(If we choose it). Our obedience to God, as Adam and Eve should have done but listened instead to the Liar, shows our love for God, (through the sacrifice of His Son). In this He is glorified. He who says Jesus did not come in the flesh is a liar. (John)

  113. foreverblessed says:

    Luke 9:23

    Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

  114. foreverblessed says:

    For being forgiven there are conditions:
    But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
    Matthew 6:15

    Do we set aside the grace of God by stating that condition.
    Are we legalistic when we say that God cannot forgive us when we do not forgive others?

    Do we start with grace and then get legalistic by obeying the teaching of Jesus?
    Are we getting legalistic when we obey what Jesus teaches us, one step at a time?

  115. foreverblessed says:

    Really, when we have been saved through the Grace of Jesus Christ, there is a walk in the Spirit.
    God can give His physical blessings to anybody alike,
    But His Spiritual blessings He can only give to those who follow Him, who do what He says.
    There are conditions to spiritual blessings

    Everybody who wants to follow Jesus has to …..
    well
    the first thing: has to deny himself.
    Is denying oneself a legalistic view? Or is it a teaching of Jesus?
    IF…… you want to follow Me, you have to deny yourself.

    Grace is unconditional, the one who looks is saved, looks to the cross.
    but following Jesus has conditions.

    And following Jesus, the Spirit unfolds the path, one by one.
    WHen we first start the walk, He shows us others things then when we are further on.

    I liken it to the sermon on the mount,
    it starts with the poor in spirit,
    the start is when we see that we give up the right to ourselves, that we give the right to Jesus, He is our Lord, that is a meek attitude, Matthew 5:2

    Then blessed are those who mourn Matthew 5:3
    for they will be comforted, the Holy Spirit comes as a Comforter! How much He comforts us in our start with Jesus.
    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    ringteousness, is right living, the right living is living in Jesus Christ, in one-ness with Him, and through Him flowing His Spirit.
    and so on goes the ladder on which we climb, guided by Jesus.

    There comes a step where we come to the insight
    Blessed are you when people insult you,persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil about you because of Me.
    Rejoice and be glad

    There will be a time when the Spirit says while we are in adverse situations with people: Rejoice!
    That is really something that we have to decide to follow, we can say to God, I want to rejoice, help me my un-rejoiceful state!
    But it means an IF….
    If we follow…

    We could also be so distressed that the Spirit has to comfort us, so we go back to the stage of being comforted. Matthew 5:4.
    I see it as a ladder, instead of going on to step 8 on the ladder, Matthew 5:10, we go back to step 2, Matthew 5:4

    But the time will come again, when the Spirit brings us to the place where we are persecuted:
    When are we going to rejoice?
    That is a conditon we have to come clean with.
    Then God will shows us more up the path of the road in following Jesus.

    So yes, we start with Grace, and with Grace we follow, but there is obedience to the treaching of Jesus, one step at a time, and very very slowly. More thruths will be revealed as we go on following Jesus!
    So we start with Grace and go on with Grace.
    But as we do not obey a certain truth set before us, the next truth will not come, untill we have accepted the step before it.

    In my own personal life I see this has happened!
    Blessing those who are a hinder to me is a truth that I obeyed very very late in my state of being a christian.
    Once I obeyed that, a total new Light was spread on my walk in Jesus. This truth I obeyed, and a new stage in my walk started.

    Is obeying that truth a legalistic view?
    No, by not obeying that urge of the Spirit I would hinder the work of the Spirit, but I would not be lost. The Holy Spirit will have a harder work to train me.
    How much have I hindered the Spirit by not obeying?

    Obedience gives way to another step on the ladder.
    So YES, more truths are revealed when we obey.
    No doubt about that, and we do not at all nullify the Grace
    We start out in Grace, we walk in grace with the steps showed by the Spirit.

  116. jeff1 says:

    When I was very ill my dad took me to see his Cannon to put my mind at ease. He explained to me of Jacobs ladder to heaven and how there is much ascending and descending and that I should be assured and trust God that heaven is real.

    I perhaps have always needed to know that heaven was real more than I needed to know anything else.

    I have never seemed to doubt that God would get me there and perhaps that is because I had an earthly dad who knew God better than any other human being I have ever known.

    I never did understand how but I believe now that he was led by the Spirit and so was led by God’s truths and not his own.

    His obedience connected him to God’s ways and why he was totally against what was going on in both religious divides at the time in our country.

    I only have God’s truths by being led by the Spirit otherwise I am following man’s ways.

    You are correct, Forever, Grace is a gift but revelations from God require obedience to the Spirit and I believe my dad was proof of such obedience.

    Who for Who, when prompted by the Spirit I either choose to follow or to flight depending on my own weaknesses.

    My dad was in the habit of following and so unnoticed to him he had God’s truths which was reflected in his life as I see now that he believed he was here to do God’s will above all other.

  117. Beloved says:

    Forever thanks, you are very good at explaining grace, much better than I. Street mentions the narrow way from time to time which I discovered long ago. We can only follow through obedience, otherwise who would follow who,really. We receive grace to follow, to obey and to confess sin. It’s all about Him, every step of the way. Yet He always waits for me when I stumble and helps me up! That’s grace too! Oh He’s so good! I love following Him, not always liking the way He goes but that’s the old nature, just like Adam and Eve. Love is patient..profound! Mart is very patient with us. The ministry here of equipping the saints is a real blessing to me, as I get so easily distracted by what’s going on with everyone else in the room ( ptsd) with triggers everywhere but God found me a place to sit quietly in my own room and learn on line about what it takes to follow Jesus. I’m so grateful.

    Viv your honesty and reliance on Jesus are so comforting as a fellow struggled with emotional issues. Thanks for being here!

    Blessings to all in Christ Jesus!

  118. Beloved says:

    struggler

  119. poohpity says:

    Well ladies let’s look at this even though we spent 200+ comments on the last topic about this. I asked earlier “obedient to what?”. But no one answered. Are we to be obedient to the law? Was it possible for anyone except Jesus to be fully obedient to the law? That would be a big fat, NO!

    Let’s just look at what Jesus had commanded, “Love others as I have loved you” John 13:34; John 15:12,17; Romans 12:10, 13:8,10; Gal 5:14; Eph 5:2; 1 Thess 4:9; 1 Peter 1:22; 1 John 3:11,23; 1 John 4:21; 2 John 1:5. So how are we doing with obedience to that command alone? I know for sure I have failed at that one right off the bat, so is my obedience on the line you bet it is but there was a covering for that, the GRACE of God by the blood of His obedient Son.

    OK let’s look at this one and see how your obedience is doing on it. “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” Matt 28:19; Mark 16:15; Acts 1:8, 2:38. So how are you doing on this one?

    Eph 2: 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.… The works that is speaking of is obedience.

    Is it obedience that the Spirit who works within us when we listen to His guidance or is it the obedience of the Spirit back again to “Who for Who?” Phil 2:13

    How is any of that possible but only by God’s grace and belief. “We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.” Romans 3:22 NLT 24Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. Where is the obedience?

    Yes it is similar to how any grows but knowledge or understanding about God comes from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit not from obedience because it is impossible to be fully obedient and if you do one little itty bitty thing wrong you are disobedient. So do you want to live by obedience or by GRACE?

  120. poohpity says:

    Obedience puffs up(pride) but humility is found in grace.

  121. poohpity says:

    Remember the parable of Jesus in Luke 18:9-14 NLT;

    9 Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness(obedience) and scorned everyone else: 10 “Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not like other people—cheaters, sinners, adulterers. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! 12 I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’

    13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ 14 I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

  122. poohpity says:

    And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him. Hebrews 11:6 NLT

    It does not say it is impossible to please God without obedience.

  123. poohpity says:

    Here is a good example of legalism again a person who is a priest from the OT law was not to touch a dead body or one who is unclean so Jesus gave this parable in Luke 10:25-37 NLT

    25 One day an expert in religious law stood up to test Jesus by asking him this question: “Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?”

    26 Jesus replied, “What does the law of Moses say? How do you read it?”

    27 The man answered, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.’ And, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    28 “Right!” Jesus told him. “Do this and you will live!”

    29 The man wanted to justify his actions, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

    30 Jesus replied with a story: “A Jewish man was traveling from Jerusalem down to Jericho, and he was attacked by bandits. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him up, and left him half dead beside the road.

    31 “By chance a priest came along. But when he saw the man lying there, he crossed to the other side of the road and passed him by. 32 A Temple assistant walked over and looked at him lying there, but he also passed by on the other side.

    33 “Then a despised Samaritan came along, and when he saw the man, he felt compassion for him. 34 Going over to him, the Samaritan soothed his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. Then he put the man on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. 35 The next day he handed the innkeeper two silver coins, telling him, ‘Take care of this man. If his bill runs higher than this, I’ll pay you the next time I’m here.’

    36 “Now which of these three would you say was a neighbor to the man who was attacked by bandits?” Jesus asked.

    37 The man replied, “The one who showed him mercy.”

    Then Jesus said, “Yes, now go and do the same.”

  124. foreverblessed says:

    God bless you very very much Pooh,

    I guess that we deep down say the same thing. If we only dare to look deeper what the others says.
    I did answer to the question,” what do we obey”, but if you do say nobody answers, then I gues it is useless talking to somebody who does not really read.
    I see this as talking alongside each other, a translation from a saying in Dutch, “langs elkaar heen praten.”
    So I back down from this conversation.

    Oswald Chambers is full and foremost and first for the grace, if you do not see that, then I guess this is too another reason why it is useless to discuss.

    Sorry Pooh, I stop here, and I pray that God bless you and keep on blessing you.

    And stayon the track of grace, and obey whenever the Holy Spirit gives you a “command”. ( Urges you in a very polite way: …..)

  125. poohpity says:

    Gee forever I must have missed when you answered “Obedience to what?” please let me know when you answered that I will be sure go back a read again. Please put the date and time so I will be sure not to miss it again, ok? It is not useless if someone actually does answer that but I sure must have missed it.

    Just like really reading what Oswald Chambers says about obedience as first and foremost above grace. There are subtleties of legalism maybe read an article about him by Terry Rayburn, “The Subtleties of Legalism – A Case Study From Oswald Chambers” he might be able to explain it better than I ever could because if it comes from me that comes along with much prejudices from you all.

  126. poohpity says:

    There have been several occasion on here when people have talked passed each other by saying the same thing but in different ways and I have completely recognized those times but this is not one of them.

    Thank you for your prayers because God has blessed me very much everyday and I am sure it is due to your prayers for me. Conversations about anything are never wasted on me because I so enjoy and am open learning. Everyday is a new learning experience for me especially when it comes to God because there is so much to learn until the day I see Him face to face I will be in that process.

  127. Beloved says:

    Pooh I read this article. I’m not Assemblies of God, which is one of the newer denominations. Terry makes some interesting observations but is limited in his understanding as we all are at times. I believe he misconstrued Chambers teachings, they are very deep and often take years to grasp. I’m only just beginning to understand the deep Truths proclaimed through his gift for discipleship after reading for over 20 years. We learn by fellowship with God. It takes time and perserverance.

    Since this is off topic I’ll say no more.

  128. foreverblessed says:

    October 11, 2.02 am amd 4.56 am

    And really, I do not need that study on OC, I can read him for myself, and anybody who says he is a legalist, does not understand what he is writing.

    Everything you wrote about grace and obedience is nothing different than what I have written, or Beloved, or any other over here, it is the same content. You just say the same things, the things we do what Jesus has told us. So indeed, you obey Him too!
    An argument for the sake of: Seek the difference.
    I back down!

    So sorry Pooh, please seek for the unity.

  129. Beloved says:

    “if it comes from me that comes along with much prejudices from you all. ”

    That was not necessary, pooh. Or needful or helpful or glorifying to God.

  130. Beloved says:

    Pooh the only prejudices we all have is against Antinomianism, which you teach here.

  131. jeff1 says:

    It has helped me enormously to be here Beloved and though I may be limited in my understanding I am greatly encouraged in my struggles.

    Pooh, you say that obedience puffs up but I can tell you that my dad was not inclined that way.

    I spent years believing that those of the Roman Catholic faith were in some way inferior to my faith because of the division in religion here and I was much more puffed up by believing that than my dad because he knew better than to buy into that kind of thinking.

    I am learning not to believe all I was taught by others and strangely enough those I learned of were way more knowledgeable about God than my dad ever was or I should say they believed they were.

    My dad had a heart for God and proved to me that his trust in God brought its own rewards.

    God does not expect us to do it perfectly but it pleases Him that we desire to.

  132. poohpity says:

    See lol, if you can not give the date and time answering my curiosity about “obedience to what?” then as usual you probably did not but instead mounted the usual recourse of attack of what a horrible person I am for asking a question, when it was only a simple question. Still can not answer it I see.

    Just because people have well known names does not mean they live by grace. I really enjoy Charles Stanley but he is legalistic with one breathe then full of grace with the next. A lot of religious type people are legalistic and preach that rather than, along with the rest of us, asking God to help us get the concept of grace.

    I am not arguing for the sake of arguing when someone repeats over and over about obedience I just simply wanted to know “obedience to what?” I can have an adult conversation with someone if I agree or disagree it is not giving into being argumentative it is called communication but obviously you all do not know how to do that very well.

  133. poohpity says:

    Oh by the way this statement is not true, “Everything you wrote about grace and obedience is nothing different than what I have written, or Beloved, or any other over here, it is the same content.”, because it is not the same content at all. I believe in the teaching of Jesus as is also taught by Paul, Peter, John, Matthew, Mark and Luke. Read what they write and then compare it to what I write and you will find it is the same Good News they teach because that is where I learned it from directly not from Pastors or Priests or other books but right out of God’s word.

  134. poohpity says:

    For those who are familiar with it would know that.

  135. foreverblessed says:

    Pooh, you are just obedient to what Jesus commands us.
    You believe in Him
    You come to Him …
    You show mercy ad you have been shown mercy
    You forgive as you have been forgiven
    ….
    So obedience is not an issue, a thing of difference.

    And as has been written here before, it is a love relation we have.
    Out of love and motivated by love, the love God showed us in the first place.
    John 3:16

  136. jeff1 says:

    It is God who decides whether obedience is an issue or not and not us.

    I can believe in Jesus and come to Him and still struggle with doing what is right in His sight.

    An example being, when my enemies are still plotting against me I cannot help being angry or having hateful thoughts towards them though I am still entrusting them to God.

    The consequences for me is that I feel guilty for having the thoughts and being angry but I cannot lie to God about feeling this way.

    It is’t that I wish my enemies ill but rather that I suffer at their hands.

    It is a good thing to tell myself the truth and wanting to forgive is not the same as forgiving and so for me there are some calls only God can make!

    Jesus too suffered at the hands of His enemies and so perhaps I should not be surprised when I am called to do likewise.

    How long, O LORD ? Will you forget me forever?
    How long will you hide your face from me?
    How long must I wrestle with my thoughts
    and every day have sorrow in my heart?
    How long will my enemy triumph over me?
    Look on me and answer, O LORD my God.
    Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death;
    my enemy will say, “I have overcome him,”
    and my foes will rejoice when I fall.
    But I trust in your unfailing love;
    my heart rejoices in your salvation.
    I will sing to the LORD,
    for he has been good to me.

  137. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning Viv and of course all, Viv it is my opinion that God loves honesty and so do I.

    Let any honest person try and behave as a Christian and they will admit that it is not easy and sometimes quite difficult to admit their honest feelings.

    Those who automatically say they forgive may think that is all it takes, to “say” it, but there is much more involved. Sometimes forgiving yourself being the most difficult of all.

    Jesus said He gave us a new commandment, what is a commandment but “an authoritive command or order; mandate; precept; as in “The Ten Commandments”.

    Jesus also said for us when insulted to not insult back. “Turn the other cheek”.

    Such an action does not remove the sting of the insult, but allows the healing of it to begin.

    Given enough time without the strife of tit for tat the insult soon is less and less important and forgiveness, real forgiveness can come.

    Not everyone is as embroiled in such a situation as your (Viv) homeland. Where insult is magnified to cold blooded murder, where full and honest forgiveness may be impossible for some.

    Jesus’ commandment just like the “ten” come with an escape clause in the sacrifice of Jesus of Nazareth.

    Whereas the “Lord’s Prayer” asks God the Father to forgive us our sins as we forgive others, we are still covered by the blood of the Lamb and so our inability to forgive is “passed over” because of the blood of Christ.

    God is God and we are not, I am very happy that is the way it is. He will make a way where we cannot.

    38 degrees and raining.

    Steve

  138. foreverblessed says:

    Jeff, the very fact that you say, not saying but even more prsying:
    I want to forgive!
    Please help me my unforiveness.

    It is the matter of the will!
    God does not force us, but wants our consent:
    Yes Lord, I will want You will, I have faith in You that You will make me able in the same power of the Risen Christ.

  139. foreverblessed says:

    Please help me my unforgiveness!

    It is a matter of discipline, instead of thinking, I thought wrong thoughts, getting down about it:
    in the Name of Christ say the opposite: Jesus is forgiveness, Jesus gives grace.
    It is an active thing.
    This is something that we must not give up on.
    He that overcomes.

    There is a lady in my area who prays to God: don’t let these thoughts come into my mind.
    And these thoughts still do come in:
    God tells us to cast down all imaginations that are against God. So as soon as they come in, proclaim the Name of Jesus.
    And keep doing that. In a matter of time they will be gone.

  140. foreverblessed says:

    John 7:17

    If any man will do his will,…. Meaning, not one that perfectly fulfils the law, which is the good, and perfect, and acceptable will of God; for there is no man that does this, or can do it; nor is it so said here, “if any man do his will”, but “if any man will do” it; that is, is desirous of doing it; who has it wrought in him both to will and do, of the good pleasure of God, by his grace and Spirit; with whom to will is present, though, he has not power to perform, and so is a spiritual man; and who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, which is one branch of the will of God; and who depends upon the Spirit and grace of God, and acts from a principle of love to God, and in the exercise of faith on Christ.

    Gill’s exposition of the Bible
    This is all about Grace.

  141. jeff1 says:

    Steve, honesty is hard to find these days as we see from the media and in our own homes were we are being warned continually that their are fraudsters who are trying to get our bank details and so we must double and treble check they are who they say they are so we don’t become a victim.

    It seems to me we used to be able to tell who were the gangsters by their foul mouths and them publicly threatening law enforcers i.e. thinking of your very famous Al Capone but we live in very different times and though in many ways they seem to be better, there are many ways where they seem also to be worse, so I to am happy that God is God for it is often very hard to see the wood for the trees.

    There Is No God But God

    There is no God, but God,
    I know this is true
    God made everything,
    He made me, He made you
    There’d be no birds,
    No planes to sail in the blue
    Without his wondrous eyes
    To see them through

    They say God made land
    And He gave it all to man
    Yes I know He’s mighty good and true
    There is no God, but God
    And He knows everything to do
    So just you call on Him
    And He will share His love with you

    There is no God, but God
    I know this is true
    For God made everything,
    He made me, He made you

    There’d be no birds,
    No planes to sail in the blue
    Without his wondrous eyes
    To see them through

    They say God made land
    And He gave it all to man
    This I know is mighty, good and true
    There is no God, but God

    And He knows everything to do
    So just you call on Him
    And He will share His love with you

  142. jeff1 says:

    Yes, Forever, I desire to forgive but as Steve says forgiveness here doesn’t come easy because their have been many cases of cold blooded murder and because those who carried it out use history to justify and defend it victims are powerless as they have no closure for their loved ones.

    The country cannot move on because the past haunts us and some of our younger generation are leaving and finding their way in the world because they see our politicians have failed as leaders to run the country effectively.

    They (the politicians) have not been honest in their dealings and so neither side trusts each other leaving the country in limbo.

    I agree with Steve, honesty matters, because when we deceive each other then we loose trust and without trust there is no hope for going forward.

    The only hope I have is that I believe there is a younger generation here who are more open and honest and will do a better job than our generation did.

  143. Beloved says:

    But if it is for God’s own glory and Name that he redeemed a liar like Jacob, refusing to share his stage with idols, nations, and heads of state (Daniel 4:28-30)— while allowing himself to be misunderstood, ignored, rejected, insulted, and far worse. If he does all that to show … then….

    to show us how to forgive and to do good to others, even our enemies to make them look good-looking even better than ourselves?

    then…shouldn’t we readily accept abuse, rejection, insult and even worse as His followers and proclaimers of the Word, Jesus?

  144. Beloved says:

    When I said, looking even better than ourselves, I was thinking of the scripture that says to esteem others as better than ourselves.

  145. Beloved says:

    Philippians 2:3 NKJV
    3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.

  146. Beloved says:

    Judges 14:14
    And he said to them, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. And they could not in three days expound the riddle.

    Mart, from the first time I read this posting Samsons riddle came to mind so today I finally looked it up and low and behold learned something wonderful I didn’t know before, that the riddle is about Christ! Awesome! Just as your post is about Christ!:-)

  147. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning Joyce. Mind you it is just my opinion, but I don’t think any of us should ever accept abuse. Perhaps take it on the chin once, but not accept it.

    Abuse for me has a limit.

    For me it is more of ignoring insult, as goes sometimes when an insult comes, I need only consider the source.

    Rejection is harder to take as usually it comes after we have placed our feelings out there and they got stomped on.

    Whereas I can’t ignore the pain, I can forgive.

    Please understand again it is just my opinion I speak, but none of us can do what Jesus did and I don’t think He expects us to.

    I truly believe that we are to imitate Him, but we can never accomplish His burden, His purpose, His cross.

    Just like the law that no one could ever fully obey except Him, His persona cannot be imitated fully by anyone either and so sinner and saint alike still needs Jesus and His sacrifice.

    Also just because I believe that doesn’t give me the excuse to knowingly transgress on my neighbor, or sin against God, but I am to live a holy life always thankful for His understanding and grace just never taking it for granted.

    Like I stated earlier, being Christian isn’t easy, that is if we are honest with ourselves.

    Praying for you to have a super excellent day.

    Steve

  148. jeff1 says:

    If I am persecuted for the sake of the Gospel then I should but to allow it for any other reason is to allow evil to prosper and I believe against the will of God.

  149. jeff1 says:

    When I say persecuted I am thinking here of how non believers will make fun and say things which aren’t necessary meant to be personal or hurtful but to a believer’s ear they are.

    Also thinking of those in countries where freedom to preach the Gospel is prohibited and so those doing so will suffer abuse, rejection or worse. I don’t think you would take it on to go there unless you had thought it through.

  150. poohpity says:

    Wow awesome conversation!!

    I know I have never been able to live up to God’s standards but Jesus DID and I am covered in His righteousness and that is what God looks at. His grace covers me. So knowing that I am covered by the blood of the Lamb I know God never expected me to be anything other than what I am, a sinner saved by His grace.(John 7:38)

    If I pretend on the outside to make others think I do everything right and just then it is not them I fool but myself, certainly not God because that was the very reason He sent Jesus.(Matt 23:1-4)

    So now that that is cleared up rather than looking at my sinful state I am free to do good things for my neighbor rather than always looking at the areas I fail so miserably nor do I need to concentrate on the many areas others fail either. I have been freed from that to give my time and my heart, the use of my arms and the gifts God has given me to reach out and touch others inside the body of Christ and those outside of the body of Christ to bring Glory to God.(Eph 2:10, 15)

  151. poohpity says:

    That is not to say when I do something wrong I admit it to God and then say how thankful I am for His forgiveness. That shows I agree with God. Keeping a short list keeps our hearts clean to go about His business of doing good deeds. When my heart is full of deceit and unconfessed sin it turns my heart to stone.

    1 John 1: 8 If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. 9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar and showing that his word has no place in our hearts.

  152. poohpity says:

    If I am looking at what others do wrong all the time then my heart goes unchecked and my focus is on them not the Lord or where my responsibility lies with myself to God.

  153. jeff1 says:

    I don’t know too many people who try to make others think they do everything right whether believers or not but I have found plenty who fooled me but that was ignorance on my part but as you say Pooh no one fools God and for that we can all be truly thankful.

    God knows our weaknesses and accepts us with them but I don’t think that should stop me trying to improve on them as I believe it pleases God that I make the effort and He is not expecting perfection but I believe He welcomes improvement.

    It shows I am not taking Him for granted and that I am striving to be the person He would like me to be.

    I couldn’t agree more than with what you said in your 9.55 am post, Steve.

    Well said.

  154. Beloved says:

    Steve no offense taken. Thank you for sharing, it’s a long hard road, isn’t it.

  155. poohpity says:

    Yes Viv, one area that shows the Fruit of the Spirit is self control so that is God’s power to stop doing what is wrong and do what is right instead. But what really pleases God the most is our faith in Him.(Hebrews 11:6 NLT) I have to remember before the law was even given it was by faith that people drew close to God not by obedience but by faith.

  156. jeff1 says:

    I think God understands very well what we are up against in this world and so despite our failings He is patient and long-suffering in waiting.

    Also I believe that our obedience is important for our growth as without it we miss seeing God’s intention and that can be detrimental to our faith which is why I believe God wants our obedience for our good and not for His.

  157. Beloved says:

    I can’t remember where it’s at but in the OT God says he he hates sin because it hurts us. On the Billy Graham web site I found this:
    God loves you, and the greatest discovery you or anyone else can ever make is that you are deeply loved by God.

    Does this mean God doesn’t hate sin? Does this mean He simply ignores it, or even laughs at it and pretends it doesn’t matter? No, not at all. But the key is to understand why He hates sin. He hates sin for many reasons—but the greatest reason is because of what it does to us. Sin is a deceiver and a destroyer, and God hates it for that reason. Just as you hate it when your child gets hurt, so in a far greater way God hates it when we hurt ourselves by our sin.

  158. Beloved says:

    who for Who?
    Isaiah 48:9–11
    9“For my name’s sake I defer my anger;

    for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you,

    that I may not cut you off.

    10Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver;

    I have tried you in the furnace of affliction.

    11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it,

    for how should my name be profaned?

    My glory I will not give to another.

  159. Beloved says:

    10Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver;
    I have tried you in the furnace of affliction.

    This is hard to accept and even easier to forget! When others have sinned against me, Christians even, causing great pain and debilitating trauma at times forgiving took a long time but I did it! But I asked God, why do I still get into a sad mood when I think of how they changed my life – (as I had planned it to go anyway). Then I remembered, “I have tried you in the furnace of affliction”. Why affliction?

    11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it,
    for how should my name be profaned?
    My glory I will not give to another.

    I’m humbled seeing how arrogantly I was motivated to live my life as I felt it should go. Me first others second God only when I needed Him. Gods hand is not short, He not only sees what’s going on but planned my life according to His rules, He loves me THAT much! Wow. Perhaps the next time I run into an ‘enemy?’ I can say thank you, Lord, for using this one to temper my pride and bless them.

    My glory I will not give to another.

  160. street says:

    Yet, the Apostle Paul asked, “If God is for us, who can be against us? (Romans 8:31). He follows with, “He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?” (v32).

    If God/Christ is for us…….

    graciously give us all things

    as pertaining to mortal life here and now. conforming one to the image of His Son. which includes joys and sorrows. the interesting thing is Jesus never saw defeat even at the cross. instead of petition, adoration thanksgiving and worship in prayer and life. thinking these came before petition in the Lord’s Prayer.

    Jesus last prayer on the cross.

    45 because the sun was obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two. 46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last. 47 Now when the centurion saw what had happened, he began praising God, saying, “Certainly this man was innocent.”

    three days later…..never to die again.

    1 Corinthians 15:31
    I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
    Philippians 3:12-14
    12 I don’t mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me. 13 No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it,[a] but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us.

  161. poohpity says:

    .in the wait, whatever you lose, don’t lose heart — you never lose what lasts forever, your salvation. You’ve got to believe it: whatever is being lost momentarily, more is being gained eternally.

    In the wait, if you shift the way you see — and see that in the wait God is making you into the person you’ve been waiting to become.

    If you’re waiting on God — do what waiters do: serve.

    Break free of your comfort zone and do something, touch someone, give something, help someone, pray for someone, serve someone, #betheGIFT for someone. You can’t be a world changer until you *serve.* In serving, you are served a feast of what you’re longing for. Because the One who loves you steadfastly, stood fast at the cross for you, so now stand fast for Him.

    “Each of you should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God’s grace in its various forms… Be generous with the different things God gave you, passing them around so all get in on it: if words, let it be God’s words; if help, let it be God’s hearty help.” 1 Peter 4:10 NIV, MSG.

  162. Beloved says:

    I thought this interesting, its from Martin Luther’s commentary on Galatians.
    “Christians are divided into two times. If you see nothing but the sinful nature, you will always remain in the time of the law. But these times must be limited or no one would be saved. The law is not perpetual; its end is Jesus Christ. He is eternal (Romans 6:9), and therefore the time of grace is also eternal. Let us learn to distinguish between these two times not only in words, but also in our inner feeling, though this is hard to do. Although these two things are quite different, they are combined in one heart. Nothing is more closely joined than fear and trust, the law and the Gospel, sin and grace; they are so united that one is swallowed up by the other.”

  163. jeff1 says:

    From Sunday morning reflections.

    Holy Highway

    There’s a road called the holy highway that once was a desert land
    Very soon you’ll hear the sound of a holy marching band
    Everlasting joy upon them, there’s a remnant strong and true
    We bring the song back to Zion; we bring the praise back to you

    We exalt You, God Almighty, You are worthy to be praised
    Let all nations bow before You, Holy Ancient of all days
    you

    We exalt You, God Almighty, You are worthy to be praised
    Let all nations bow before You, Holy Ancient of all days

    There’s a road called the holy highway, where the people dance and shout
    For the enemy is running with confusion all about
    Raise our banners in the victory; raise them high His word is true
    We bring our song back to Zion, we bring the praise back to you

    We exalt You, God Almighty, You are worthy to be praised
    Let all nations bow before You, Holy Ancient of all days

    Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty
    Holy, holy holy is the Lord
    Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah
    Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah

    There’s a road called the holy highway that once was a desert land
    Very soon you’ll hear the sound of a holy marching band and true
    Everlasting joy upon them, there’s a remnant strong and true
    We bring the song back to Zion; we bring the praise back to you
    We bring the praise back to you

    The Heart Of Worship

    When the music fades
    All is stripped away
    And I simply come
    Longing just to bring
    Something that’s of worth
    That will bless Your heart
    I’ll bring You more than a song
    For a song in itself
    Is not what You have required
    You search much deeper within
    Through the way things appear
    You’re looking into my heart

    I’m coming back to the heart of worship
    And it’s all about You
    It’s all about You, Jesus
    I’m sorry, Lord, for the thing I’ve made it
    When it’s all about You

    It’s all about You, Jesus

    King of endless worth
    No one could express
    How much You deserve
    Though I’m weak and poor
    All I have is Yours
    Every single breath
    I’ll bring You more than a song
    For a song in itself
    Is not what You have required
    You search much deeper within

    Through the way things appear
    You’re looking into my heart

    I’m coming back to the heart of worship
    And it’s all about You
    It’s all about You, Jesus

    I’m sorry, Lord, for the thing I’ve made it
    And it’s all about You
    It’s all about You, Jesus
    I’m coming back to the heart of worship
    And it’s all about You
    It’s all about You, Jesus
    I’m sorry, Lord, for the thing I’ve made it
    And it’s all about You
    It’s all about You, Jesus

  164. poohpity says:

    wow Beloved, just love that from Luther he for sure knew that obedience to the law was only accomplished through Jesus Christ and He ended that old covenant in His blood in exchange for the new covenant of grace. The old has gone and new has come, hallelujah! People feared being punished for breaking the law BUT Jesus bore that pain in His body on the Cross to give us freedom. That was what the reformation with Luther was all about but still till this day as it was in the times of the new testament, people went back under the law again of which Paul warned of us several times. Freedom is hard to understand for those who think it is all about them and their obedience which is what Viv’s comment leads to. Great morning devotions.

  165. Beloved says:

    Luther is the father of our understanding of grace, I shudder to think where we would be at without God intervening though it was through much adversity that Luther’s obedience opened the eyes of many. Our own obedience comes also at great price, the horrific death of our merciful, graceful God who died for us as the greatest sacrifice of all time. Obedience not to the letter of the law but obedience to the One who fulfilled the laws demands. Jesus Christ, Son of God.

  166. Beloved says:

    24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

    Our obedience to follow Christ at the cost of life, limb, family, friends, home, goods is our choice. But we cannot follow Him without a conscious choice to obey Him. His many many teachings on what it takes to obey and follow caused many to turn away then, as now. I often think of the narrow way as narrow as the frame of His body. Follow Me, He said. The grace of God is poured out on all, as we live in the time of grace, but the choice to follow Christ is always ours. Not a head assent but a whole heart devotion to be obedient to the Way, as early Christians called it.

  167. Beloved says:

    But if it is for God’s own glory and Name…

    The bigger picture shows us who’s the boss so to speak with Jesus not only providing THE way to the Father but showing us what it takes to enter into an eternal life with Him.

  168. Beloved says:

    1 John 2:3-6 New International Version (NIV)
    Love and Hatred for Fellow Believers
    3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

  169. jeff1 says:

    Love Lifted Me

    I was sinking deep in sin,
    Far from the peaceful shore,
    Very deeply stained within,
    Sinking to rise no more.
    But the Master of the sea

    Heard my despairing cry,
    From the waters lifted me.
    Now safe am I.

    Love lifted me! Love lifted me!
    When nothing else could help,
    Love lifted me.
    Love lifted me! Love lifted me!
    When nothing else could help
    Love lifted me.

    Souls in danger look above
    Jesus completely saves
    He will lift you by his love
    Out of the angry waves

    But the master of the sea
    Billows His will obey
    He your saviour wants to be
    Be saved today

    Love lifted me! Love lifted me!
    When nothing else could help,
    Love lifted me.
    Love lifted me! Love lifted me!
    When nothing else could help
    Love lifted me

  170. foreverblessed says:

    That is a song of love, Jeff!
    It is a love relationship, that has been said much before here.

    This song we have sung in our church years ago, I just found it again:
    It talks of Jesus singing over us.

    You’re My beloved your’re My bride
    to sing over you is My delight
    Come away with Me my love
    Under My mercy come and wait
    till we are standing face to face
    I see no stain on you my child

    Chorus
    Yo’r beau—–tiful to Me
    so beau—-tiful to Me

    I sing over you my song of peace
    cast all your care down at My feet
    come and find your rest in Me

    Bridge
    I breathe My life inside of you
    i’ll bear you up on eagle’s wings
    and hide you in the shadow of My strength
    I’ll take you to my quiet waters
    I’ll restore your soul
    Come rest in me and be made whole

    You’re My beloved you’re My bride
    To sing over you is My delight

    (Kari Jobe My Beloved)

  171. jeff1 says:

    Forever, while I love the song I have to say that I was raised in a church where I believe I am a child of God rather than the Bride Of Christ because I see the Bride Of Christ as Jesus’s Church on earth predestined by God.

    I was taught to see Christ as my refuge when I fail to keep God’s commands and since I am still failing to keep God’s commands perfectly then I still see Christ as my refuge.

    In God’s mercy I can rest in Christ until God’s judgement day when I know to that I will not receive what I deserve because I am His child and forgiven for my failures on this earth which are many but Jesus having bore my sins means I am Saved as God has promised and not by my works or being good but my the hand of God.

    Christ is our Redeemer which in that we can all agree but there many questions that are left unanswered. What the UK Church looks like in 2018 I have extracted from our Parish News.

    This is an extract from our church magazine and so reflects the state of churches and religions in the UK today and I believe tells us that the end is very much in God’s hands.

    Extract from Parish News:

    The church is both declining and growing! There are 270 different denominations in the UK, 95 of which exist in Scotland. For simplicity these are put into 10 groups, the three largest of which are the Anglicans, Roman Catholics and
    Presbyterians. Between them, these three Churches account for one fifth 20% of all the denominations. But sadly, all three of these Churches, are declining in the UK.

    Two smaller groups, the Baptists and the Methodists are also declining. Together, they represent 4% of the denominations and 7% of the members.

    This leaves five groups: the Independent Churches (such as FIEC and the Brethren), New Churches (such as Vineyard and New-frontiers), Orthodox, Pentecostals and the smaller Denominations (such as the Salvation Army, Quakers, Seventh-Day Adventists, all the many immigrant churches, and so on).Each of these five groups is growing in memberships terms. They account for 76% of the UK’s denominations but only 33% of church members. Unfortunately, the, decline by the larger denominations is too great to be offset by the growth.
    The faster growing denominations fall into roughly three equal groups:
    1)Immigrant churches (especially Poles, Romanians, and Filipinos and Koreans in England and Chinese in Scotland). Most of the Poles are Roman Catholic; many of the Romanians are Orthodox, but the others are mostly Evangelical.
    2)The Pentecostal churches. The largest of these is the Redeemed Christian Church of God (RCCG) (planting 800 churches in the UK in the last 20 years). The RCCG uses a mantra straight out of Nigerian bush country, “Plant a church within 10 minutes walking distance” (of where people live), which is equivalent to about a half mile circle.
    3)Other growing denominations include Hill song, Churches of Christ, the FIEC. Vineyard, and Messy Church. These churches are planted where there is a need or an opportunity.

    I don’t wonder why non believers are confused today when they read this as I as a believer am just as confused as to what we (human race) as done for the Gospel!

  172. poohpity says:

    The very first churches were in people’s homes. Tight nit communities so they could encourage each other through difficulties, stand together in prayer, hold each other accountable, sing psalms and learn, they seem to be more relational but now they seem so big hardly anyone knows anyone else.

    People seem split in denominations because of differing tradition and religious rules or beliefs. I think that was the work of the enemy, to divide. Not many churches now teach the bible but different topics as they relate to topics of the day which often is not about God’s teaching but trying to fit the world into things about God not about listening and learning from the Holy Spirit, relational together with/in God.

  173. poohpity says:

    To me a church should be more like a vocational school where people are taught how to do their specific jobs which is to spread the Gospel, make disciples, share the teaching of Jesus Christ and how to reach out to do good in our communities. Learn inside the church how to go out into the world and be the hands, arms and feet of our Lord to a dying world. To bring joy, peace and love.

  174. jeff1 says:

    Then we have moved a way from the truth of the Gospel as it was taught to my generation. The Cannon that my dad took me too constructed his sermons from the Bible but he was what I call old school and the churches today are very different as you say.

    It seems the world has lost it’s way, to me, but that doesn’t change that God is in control just that I find this world more difficult to live in.

  175. poohpity says:

    Yes even in churches they seem to have lost the focus as well more about the people than it is about God. People want to sit atop that pedestal where only God belongs but that is no different than it has always been there are just more people today than there were centuries ago.

  176. street says:

    Wake up, wake up, O Zion!
    Clothe yourself with strength.
    Put on your beautiful clothes, O holy city of Jerusalem,
    for unclean and godless people will enter your gates no longer.
    2
    Rise from the dust, O Jerusalem.
    Sit in a place of honor.
    Remove the chains of slavery from your neck,
    O captive daughter of Zion.
    3
    For this is what the Lord says:
    “When I sold you into exile,
    I received no payment.
    Now I can redeem you
    without having to pay for you.”

    4 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: “Long ago my people chose to live in Egypt. Now they are oppressed by Assyria. 5 What is this?” asks the Lord. “Why are my people enslaved again? Those who rule them shout in exultation.[a] My name is blasphemed all day long.[b] 6 But I will reveal my name to my people, and they will come to know its power. Then at last they will recognize that I am the one who speaks to them.”

    7
    How beautiful on the mountains
    are the feet of the messenger who brings good news,
    the good news of peace and salvation,
    the news that the God of Israel[c] reigns!
    8
    The watchmen shout and sing with joy,
    for before their very eyes
    they see the Lord returning to Jerusalem.[d]
    9
    Let the ruins of Jerusalem break into joyful song,
    for the Lord has comforted his people.
    He has redeemed Jerusalem.
    10
    The Lord has demonstrated his holy power
    before the eyes of all the nations.
    All the ends of the earth will see
    the victory of our God.

    11
    Get out! Get out and leave your captivity,
    where everything you touch is unclean.
    Get out of there and purify yourselves,
    you who carry home the sacred objects of the Lord.
    12
    You will not leave in a hurry,
    running for your lives.
    For the Lord will go ahead of you;
    yes, the God of Israel will protect you from behind.
    13
    See, my servant will prosper;
    he will be highly exalted.
    14
    But many were amazed when they saw him.[e]
    His face was so disfigured he seemed hardly human,
    and from his appearance, one would scarcely know he was a man.
    15
    And he will startle[f] many nations.
    Kings will stand speechless in his presence.
    For they will see what they had not been told;
    they will understand what they had not heard about.[g]

  177. jeff1 says:

    Perhaps that is how churches now see it that God exists for them and it is I who has the wrong perception.

    Is it not so that when worshippers get together they do so in God’s presence irrespective of their different reasons for being there.

    God does exist for us to worship and whatever our different reasons each must feel the need to come and perhaps that is enough to please God because it shows faith in Him and in a lost world like this one I would imagine that pleases God very much.

    Whatever our divisions, Christ is still for us and that is where our focus must be in a world like this one.

  178. street says:

    Philippians 4

    thinking about the “seven” churches in Revelation.

  179. jeff1 says:

    poohpity says:
    October 15, 2018 at 8:37 am

    People seem split in denominations because of differing tradition and religious rules or beliefs. I think that was the work of the enemy, to divide. Not many churches now teach the bible but different topics as they relate to topics of the day which often is not about God’s teaching but trying to fit the world into things about God not about listening and learning from the Holy Spirit, relational together with/in God.

    It may not have been the work of the enemy because it could be God’s way to divide and conquer!

  180. street says:

    But if it is for God’s own glory and Name that he redeemed a liar like Jacob, refusing to share his stage with idols, nations, and heads of state (Daniel 4:28-30)— while allowing himself to be misunderstood, ignored, rejected, insulted, and far worse. If he does all that to show … then….

    peace.

    thinking redemption is a work of God from beginning to end. Glorious! where then do good works fit in? a work of God, not man? thinking of the story 54 When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” 55 But He turned and rebuked them, [[ah]and said, “You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; 56 for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”] And they went on to another village. comparing my spirit with james and john would not be much different, but with Jesus the difference is night and day. we have been given a new Spirit, the old one dies daily and not without a struggle. the light and easy yoke frees you the other blinds binds and kills.

    Israel one who struggles. learning the ropes.
    Jesus brought peace.

  181. poohpity says:

    I do not know about others but when I really like someone or really care about them I work, seek and search to find out all I can about them, that is the meaning of intimacy to really get to know them personally. Several times we are taught in scripture that God knows everything about us down to the slightest detail. God has also said many times in scripture I want you, my people, to get to know me and you will be rewarded for seeking, searching and getting to me(God). God seems so very pleased when we want to develop a close, intimate relationship with Him. Are we for God as He is for us?

  182. poohpity says:

    Jeremiah 24:7, 29:13

  183. jeff1 says:

    “Open The Eyes Of My Heart”

    Open the eyes of my heart, Lord
    Open the eyes of my heart
    I want to see You
    I want to see You

    Open the eyes of my heart, Lord
    Open the eyes of my heart
    I want to see You
    I want to see You

    [Chorus:]
    To see you high and lifted up
    Shining in the light of Your glory
    Pour out Your power and love
    As we sing holy, holy, holy

    [Chorus]

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

    Open the eyes of my heart, Lord
    Open the eyes of my heart
    I want to see You
    I want to see You

    [Chorus]

    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    Holy, holy, holy
    I want to see You

  184. foreverblessed says:

    Jeff, feeling like a child of God is something we know is true.
    We are a child of God, if we are led by the Holy Spirit.
    But the relation goes much more intimate,
    Song of songs is telling of it.

    I have been studying this book now for several weeks, and it is hard to understand.
    I asked God, what do you mean:
    Let Him kiss me with the kisses of His mouth…

    In Psalm 2:12
    It says: Kiss the Son.

    We believe in the Don,very have faith in Him.
    He kisses us,
    we kiss Him.

    As a young person, you can be so madly in love, as newly weds it could be overwhelming!
    That love is a small reflection of the intimate love God has for us.

    For He made men, man and woman, in His image!

    the love between a man and

  185. foreverblessed says:

    and a woman

    Song of Songs is full of it.
    An allegory.
    How does God kiss me?

    A good thing to meditate upon,
    With the kiss of Mercy
    The kiss of forgiveness
    Of healing,
    Of restoration of our soul,
    Of strengthening
    of peace.
    Of patience

    Just a starter…

    Is there a part we have to do?
    Jesus says that we should come to Him.
    Matt 11:28

    In our church people are first and foremost told to come to Jesus, and have the discipline to stay there.

    We are pledged to a Person, Jesus, not to a work.
    If we are one with Jesus He will arrange our work.
    I used to be in another church where we arranged the work of the Gospel, and asked God to help us, I was pledged to a job, and not to The Person, Jesus.

    Seeking the Rest in Jesus is ” the work” we do, I speak in human terms, as Paul said,
    And the works will follow, His works, and has been written here above, we will see they are works of Grace.

    Typos above: Don and mout
    Believing in the Son, not Don
    Mout
    Kisses of His mouth

    I end with the kisses of His mouth

  186. jeff1 says:

    I don’t think I am as far on in my journey as you are Forever as I feel much more like the helpless child than a woman in love.

    Maybe that’s because since a child I have heard or seen nothing but war and then in my personal life I tried to stay in a marriage (22 years) that consumed me and I have suffered mentally ever since.

    Twenty years into a peace agreement our politicians can no longer agree because they are still the bigoted and uncaring people that they always were and what my dad knew all along but I was too blind to see them for what they were back then.

    On the radio this morning I have learned that we are going to be subjected to advertisements on television which will show punishment beatings.

    The mothers of these young men take them to the paramilitaries to be shot in the legs and they do it because they are warned by the paramilitaries they will shoot them dead otherwise.

    As a mother here I have witnessed tit for tat killings that broke my heart and so hearing this news today as smashed it in smithereens.

    Is this a country I want to live in other than I was born here and it is my home now?

    Then I turn to the world news which doesn’t get any better but when you are already scarred by the demons in your own land you don’t much care for what is going on in the rest of the world.

    If Jesus came to bring peace to His people then this is one child who is not feeling that peace.

    Will I feel near to God today only by listening to my gospel music that will deafen out the screams of the young man I heard on the radio this morning.

    This quote from C.S. Lewis a fellow countryman gives me peace today in a world so lacking.

    “If we find ourselves with a desire that nothing in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that we were made for another world.”

  187. poohpity says:

    I have a friend on facebook who shares all the good things happening around the world everyday. There are good things happening everyday all around but if our mindset is on the bad then that is all one will pay attention to. There are neighbors helping neighbors, people doing good works for others when they are sick preparing meals, sitting and listening to someone who is feeling down, giving hugs or smiles out, look at all the volunteer agencies feeding those who have no food, giving people clothes, a person in line at the grocery store paying for groceries of the person next in line, oh my the list goes on.

    On my radio it is always, always tuned to K-LOVE to listen to things of God. I however do stay informed about the actions of our government from reliable sources but the only news that news stations report is the bad things happening in our backyard and around the world that seems to be their job. But it seems the more ugly we feed our minds it eventually effects our hearts and bitterness sets in, so ultimately we have a choice what we let in. When there is a station with bad, there is also a station that is sharing something good but we have a choice which one we listen to or none at all.

    We are also surrounded by the beauty of nature, no matter what there is always something to praise God for, at times that may be just that fact that He is God, He has the whole world in His hands and His love surrounds us and lives in us.

  188. poohpity says:

    Psalm 118:24

    This is the day,
    this is the day that the Lord has made,
    that the Lord has made.
    I will rejoice,
    I will rejoice and be glad in it,
    and be glad in it.
    This is the day that the Lord has made.
    I will rejoice and be glad in it.
    This is the day,
    this is the day that the Lord has made.

  189. jeff1 says:

    Are you saying I am not aware of the good that people do Pooh because I am very aware of it but that does not mean I turn a blind eye to the evil going on around me nor should I and it should break my heart otherwise I might question if I have a heart in the first place.

  190. poohpity says:

    Remember, “Who for Who!” If God is for us then who can be against us. Many can try but we know the end of the story and God Wins.

  191. poohpity says:

    No Viv, that is not what I was saying. It is very difficult when someone always thinks the worst of people rather than considering they might be trying to cheer you up and encourage you. But we do think of others what comes from our own hearts, so where is your heart right now Viv? You do not have to turn a blind eye to the evil around you but consider looking at it less. :-)

    When David was surrounded by enemies trying to kill him, he wrote this song: Psalm 57

    1
    Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy!
    I look to you for protection.
    I will hide beneath the shadow of your wings
    until the danger passes by.
    2
    I cry out to God Most High,
    to God who will fulfill his purpose for me.
    3
    He will send help from heaven to rescue me,
    disgracing those who hound me. Interlude
    My God will send forth his unfailing love and faithfulness.

    4
    I am surrounded by fierce lions
    who greedily devour human prey—
    whose teeth pierce like spears and arrows,
    and whose tongues cut like swords.

    5
    Be exalted, O God, above the highest heavens!
    May your glory shine over all the earth.

    6
    My enemies have set a trap for me.
    I am weary from distress.
    They have dug a deep pit in my path,
    but they themselves have fallen into it. Interlude

    7
    My heart is confident in you, O God;
    my heart is confident.
    No wonder I can sing your praises!
    8
    Wake up, my heart!
    Wake up, O lyre and harp!
    I will wake the dawn with my song.
    9
    I will thank you, Lord, among all the people.
    I will sing your praises among the nations.
    10
    For your unfailing love is as high as the heavens.
    Your faithfulness reaches to the clouds.

    11
    Be exalted, O God, above the highest heavens.
    May your glory shine over all the earth.

  192. jeff1 says:

    Jesus gives us peace not as this world gives us peace and I must distinguish that there is a difference.

  193. poohpity says:

    You might read the devotion from Our Daily Bread for today. It touches on what you have been saying.

  194. poohpity says:

    There are many things in this world that can distract us from the most important thing, a relationship with Jesus, sitting at His feet and learning from Him. Luke 10:38-42 NLT

    It amazes me that sometimes people give up listening and learning from Jesus, filling our precious minds with things from above for the daily garbage that goes on all around us. It is easy to distinguish the difference; one makes you anxious, angry, fearful and the other brings calm, contentment and joy.

  195. jeff1 says:

    Pooh, war is in my head because my dad was in the second world war so my mum talked constantly of what it was like for him and the times they lived in, (in my childhood) and then, I lived through a kind of war here where there was shootings and bombings every day for thirty years and because I worked for the military that had a profound effect on my well being. My son also joined the military and fought in Afghanistan and so peace is an alien word to me.

    In my culture our fathers and sons joined the military to defend the country and so many have died for the peace of this land and yet today we are left with recriminations and the pain of dealing with a past that won’t go away.

    In my personal life I stayed in a marriage for 22 years that consumed me and the recriminations of that linger.

    This world has brought me nothing but pain and so perhaps you may see why I do not feel that kindly towards it.

    I do not have bitterness in my heart because it is sadness that overwhelms me for those who have lost their life in pursuit of peace in a world that is so lacking in it.

    Yes, Jesus gives us a peace not as this world gives.

  196. poohpity says:

    It is really not about what happens all around us but what happens in us when we accept Jesus as Savior. Do not blame what goes on inside us on any outside stimulus. We can weep for the evil we see around us but in our own hearts we can have the peace you mentioned above when it is NOT the influence of the world around but the trust we have in God that gives us our peace, right? That is what you said earlier but do you believe what you yourself said and have you experienced it or is it just words or something to say?

    Jesus died for the pursuit of peace, a peace between mankind and God. A peace that is not easy to describe because it involves trusting in someone other than ourselves.

  197. Beloved says:

    Good morning all.

    Forever I too wondered what ‘Kiss the Son’ meant so read the psalm and a commentary by Spurgeon, here’s a brief overview:
    Even now he reigns in Zion, and our glad lips sound forth the praises of the Prince of Peace. Greater conflicts may here be foretold, but we may be confident that victory will be given to our Lord and King. Glorious triumphs are yet to come; hasten them, we pray thee, O Lord! It is Zion’s glory and joy that her King is in her, guarding her from foes, and filling her with good things. Jesus sits upon the throne of grace, and the throne of power in the midst of his church. In him is Zion’s best safeguard; let her citizens be glad in him.

    I thought this so encouraging and what Viv was saying also today. I like what you said about looking to Jesus first! As the author and finisher of our faith why shouldn’t we :-)!

  198. Beloved says:

    Forever about gifts. God is sooo faithful to complete the good work He started in us! Yesterday in bible study on Job I offered to read a passage to the group. Putting on my best public speaking voice and lots of self confidence I read. But when I looked up the whole room was a chatter and looks of WHAT ARE YOU READING??? as the teacher said I was in the wrong chapter!! Oh how embarrassing, embarrassing because God had crumbled my ivory tower of self confidence, instead of God confidence. I love that He’s still working in me. We are weak, we do make mistakes, but what I do -even for God- if it’s done in the flesh it will fail because Jesus sits on the throne. Thankfully! As Psalm2 says!

  199. Beloved says:

    “In the culture of first-century Israel, a kiss was not always a romantic expression of love; rather, a kiss on the cheek was a common greeting, a sign of deep respect, honor, and brotherly love (see Luke 7:45; Romans 16:16; 1 Corinthians 16:20; 2 Corinthians 13:12; 1 Thessalonians 5:26; 1 Peter 5:14).”

    (Satan used a sign of great respect- kiss- to betray Jesus when he was allowed to enter Judas.)

  200. jeff1 says:

    Yes, I have felt the peace of God many times in my life otherwise I don’t believe my faith would have survived.

    I am not questioning my peace with God but the world’s peace with God because as you say that is what Jesus died for peace between mankind and God.

    How can I feel at peace in a world where men only know warring when I am so exhaustively tired of it.

    I trust God but that doesn’t stop me from being human and feeling that while God is for Us (mankind) I don’t see any great evidence that We (mankind) are for God.

    Yes, it is my weakness that this world disrupts my peace and that is a thorn in my side and a constant struggle for me and I don’t expect you to understand when I truthfully don’t understand it myself.

  201. street says:

    I asked God, what do you mean:
    Let Him kiss me with the kisses of His mouth…

    thinking about the past and the times i performed the kiss, mouth to mouth resuscitation. thinking about God in the garden breathing into adam and giving him life. i could give a breath to some one who needed it, but only God can give life. yes Lord, Kiss us with True Life. John 11:25
    Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

  202. Beloved says:

    Viv the “world” will never be at peace with God unless and until each individual turns to Christ. As Jesus followers we are indeed in the world but not a part of it. That’s hard, but as you well know we walk by faith and not by sight. Ephesians 6:15 “And with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.” We are Jesus ambassadors of peace so to speak. I understand weariness. I most often turn off the news online and tv. I don’t have the strength to deal with all the drama and trauma. When I do watch news its with prayers and supplications. So many don’t know our Prince of Peace.

  203. Beloved says:

    Street were you an EMT?

  204. Beloved says:

    Or did you go to medical school.

  205. poohpity says:

    Some people accept the “Song of Solomon” as a story of a man’s love for his wife. If it is thought of as in the love of God for mankind to many parts of it just do not make much sense at all in it’s imagery of intimacy that only would happen between a man and woman. Have to remember just what took up most of Solomon’s life, it was women. He had 700 wives and 300 hundred concubines, think about that, and I bet that took a lot of his time along with gaining knowledge about animal husbandry, construction, different religions and just writing down the wisdom God gave him. Soon there was no room for God in his life until it seems the end, unlike his dad.

  206. jeff1 says:

    Yes, Beloved, we do walk by faith and not by sight and that is what I have been taught and what I believe and those Christians in my life who kept it simple and did that are the ones that I think of today when I struggle with my own demons.

    It is my weakness to look at the world around me but when I consider what God has done for my forefathers and the faith they showed in trials beyond my comprehension then I know I have put my faith in a God who will not disappoint and that sure is worth rejoicing about whatever my circumstances today.

    With mental illness you learn to take one day at a time and why I find this song very encouraging when I’m having an off day.

    One Day at a Time

    (One day at a time sweet Jesus)
    I’m only human
    I’m just a woman
    Help me believe, what I could be
    And all that I am
    Show me the stairway
    I have to climb
    Lord for my sake
    Teach me to take
    One day at a time

    [Chorus]
    One day at a time sweet Jesus
    That’s all I’m askin’ from You
    Just give me the strength
    To do every day
    What I should do
    Yesterday’s gone sweet Jesus
    Tomorrow may never be mine
    Lord help me today
    Show me the way
    One day at a time

    Do You remember
    When You walked among men
    Jesus You know
    If You’re lookin’ below
    It’s worse now than then
    Cheatin’ and stealin’
    Violence and crime
    So for my sake
    Teach me to take
    One day at a time

    [Chorus]
    One day at a time sweet Jesus
    That’s all I’m askin’ from You
    Just give me the strength
    To do every day
    What I should do
    Yesterday’s gone sweet Jesus
    Tomorrow may never be mine
    Lord help me today
    Show me the way
    One day at a time

  207. Beloved says:

    My understanding is that the Song of Solomon is a picture of Christs love for His bride, the church. Jesus is throughout the scriptures!

  208. foreverblessed says:

    “The Song of Solomon, called in the Vulgate and Septuagint, “The Song of Songs,” from the opening words. This title denotes its superior excellence, according to the Hebrew idiom; so holy of holies, equivalent to “most holy” (Ex 29:37); the heaven of heavens, equivalent to the highest heavens (Deu 10:14).”

    (from Jamieson-Fausset-Brown bible commentary)

    Just as Jesus is the King of Kings, there is no-one higher.

    No higher song than this song.

  209. foreverblessed says:

    I have been busy with a painting, my sister-in-law, who had had breast cancer, she stood before her window in Amsterdam, in one of those very old houses, through the many small windows, you could see the trees in the inner court. The light fell on her face, and body.
    This I wanted to paint, just like Johannes Vermeer.
    Meaning to say that when the Light of Jesus shines on a person, she will be enlivened.
    When painting a beautifull atmosphere appeared, and it was lovely to look at. But the painting was not finshed, so it seemed. But everything I added, that took away of that mysterious atmosphere.
    SO I started a drawing, very minute, and the trees behind the window, I always see that as the choice of the two trees. The drawing is lovely too, but it is more of the common sense.

    Then I made the connection to the Song of Songs.
    There are many layers to the song, it is the love between a man and a woman. The more down to earht business, things that happen on the human plane, all thought that they are a reflection of the God plane, as we are created in the image of God, so the love between man and a woman is too an image of a higher love.
    THe explanation that the Cambridge bible has for the song is very down to earth: A beautiful girl is brought into the chammbers of King Solomon, but she is madly in love with her shepherd boy, and in the end she says: Solomon has his 1000 vineyards, but my vineyard is mine to give, in other words, she chooses for her great love. Song of songs 8:11-12

    But then other commentaries say:
    Song of Songs 8:6-7
    This is the essence of the book, they say. This is speaking of a love so intense, it is not of the human plane

    “Place me like a seal over your heart,
    like a seal on your arm;
    for love is as strong as death,
    its jealousy[a] unyielding as the grave.
    It burns like blazing fire,
    like a mighty flame.
    7
    Many waters cannot quench love;
    rivers cannot sweep it away.
    If one were to give
    all the wealth of one’s house for love,
    it would be utterly scorned.”

    And then youu have the commentary of Jamieson-Fausset-Brown, and when you read that, you come into another sphere, it is mysterious. It is beyond comprehension, and yet very alluring to seek further into it.

    It is God who is looking with a burning love, to seek to reconnect humankind, that have been imprisoned into the kingdom of darkness, He wants to restore the bond of Love that was.

    An intense message of Love, a love that is burning like a blazing fire, many waters cannot quench it away, rivers cannot wash it away.

    What a comforting idea!

  210. poohpity says:

    Imagine to her surprise the shepherd she fell in love with was actually the King of Israel. The are similarities or prophetic messages pointing towards the coming of Jesus as just an everyday person, a carpenter, to find out later that He was actually God in the flesh. There are prophetic messages throughout the OT that pointed to the one day coming of Jesus as He shared with the 2 two disciples on the road to Emmaus. He went through scriptures with them and opened their eyes and hearts to really hear what the OT was saying about Him.

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