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Unhitched and Irresistible

I’ve spent quite a bit of time lately with recent YouTube videos and writings of Andy Stanley on a subject that has compelled him to take some risks.

Andy’s current video series, “The Bible for Grown-ups—last things first”, offers his reasons for writing “Irresistible” in an effort to explain the life-changing difference between the Old and New Testaments.

While affirming our many reasons to treasure the Law, Writings, and Prophets, Andy is getting pushback for suggesting that we need to “unhitch” ourselves from the expired covenant of Sinai.

My sense is that many are misunderstanding and misquoting Andy in his attempt to clarify the wonder of life in Christ— and counter winds of information that are having such an impact on our young people. It’s evident that he’s deeply concerned about the influence of a group of professors and authors who are leveraging a global Internet to call attention to the violence of the God and people of the Old Testament.

My take is that Andy has a message that needs to be carefully considered.

I’m fairly certain that when he says that for the last 7 or 8 years he’s been quoting David, Moses, Matthew, and Paul rather than what “the Bible says”, and— and that when he makes the claim that our faith doesn’t rest in the Bible, but in the resurrection of Jesus, he isn’t just trying to be controversial. I believe him when he talks about how much toxic information has been promoted in the name of the Bible— and that we wouldn’t have a 2-Testament-Book if Jesus had remained in the grave. Neither would we have a way of life grounded—not in the rule of law—but in the liberating Spirit of his love for us.

I’ve hesitated to weigh in too quickly on the waves of disagreement that have made “The Bible for Grown-ups” and “Irresistible” a matter of rumor and alarm. But I’m convinced that Andy has hold of something that could help explain why so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them.


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274 Responses to “Unhitched and Irresistible”

  1. poohpity says:

    It took a couple of hours to listen to what Andy was saying but it sure was worth the time. Coming from his background I can see and agree totally with what he said for our future generations and their relationship with the Lord. I often wonder how anyone can read any part of the bible without the basics of the resurrection and what that actually meant and did as the basics of our faith journey and the establishment of the church. It went along with the teaching this week from “Discover the Word”.

  2. street says:

    Andy is getting pushback for suggesting that we need to “unhitch” ourselves from the expired covenant of Sinai.

    don’t know andy or read any of his writings. the unhitch sounds intriguing from the stand point of headship in that with or without the law we are doomed. it takes unhitching from self, sin, pride, darkness, dead/death. much of this i think comes from a bent twisted broken disconnected self. deception, ignorance, lies, permeating a false joy. a false joy or dead joy. the scriptures constantly speak of a joy in God that will last, persevere even in the darkest times.
    it seems something new is needed from outside ourselves that we are incapable of instigating or completing. the idea we are pulling or working the wagon in a direction is foolish when we consider we are to be followers. the idea of co-conspirators doesn’t even fit even though we are active participants. thinking God and man on road, One a Creator the other a creature. two made one, like Christ is way outside the box. the Holy Spirit given to the saints, each one, and being made One. God is all and in all. it’s interesting people don’t even believe in God and they can always come up with a reason why and can not understand the things they do. like asking a little one why did you do that? I don’t know? which brings me back to headship and joy.

  3. street says:

    It’s evident that he’s deeply concerned about the influence of a group of professors and authors who are leveraging a global Internet to call attention to the violence of the God and people of the Old Testament.

    the Old Testament is frightening with it’s stories and recorded events, but without a base story line you will get lost. i have gotten lost several times in the book of Job. taking an assessment of what you are reading and why will go alone way in discovering what you want to find. looking for the Author/Director of human history might be something to look for. looking at the sign post, His Word and Promises, will secure, protect, enlighten you. easy and light yoke comes to mind. a trust in His Word a Hope in His rescue a belief in His everlasting Love.

    the violence of the Old has been put to rest. have any of these scholars peaked under the hood of Revelation? then again i don’t think they have a good base story line from which to build. might i suggest Jesus and His redemptive work? their beef is not evil sin violence or the law it is with God. the prosecution and the defense rest at the cross. then a judgment is rendered.

    the enlightenment of the 1500’s changed the world for good for a little while. the enlightenment prior to the 20 century was a disaster in the toll of human suffering. it will be interesting to see what artificial light they come up with to walk by next. same ole team since Genesis 3.

  4. street says:

    and that when he makes the claim that our faith doesn’t rest in the Bible, but in the resurrection of Jesus,

    there is a big difference in words on a page, law, and following the risen Savior. the Righteous shall live by faith.

  5. Beloved says:

    Unhitching.

    I’m not sure what he means as I haven’t read his books or watched him on YouTube- forgive me, but I know his dad Charles through His sermons and some things I read on the news and commend him for trying to keep the faith pure, Christ centric. When I think of unhitched I’m wondering if there is so much push back from some he must be ruffling some theological feathers somewhere. Well, let the feathers fall where they may. God is still on the throne and the Wind will send those feathers flying, eventually. It’s the little ones we need to pray for and feed with Truth, always.

  6. SFDBWV says:

    Seeing how this new subject Mart has shared with us was put up as late as it was I haven’t had time to share my thoughts as yet. As the morning has been moving into afternoon Matt got his exercises done and I have been trying to get what I hope is the last mowing of our grass as the temperatures are supposed to be in the low 20’s tonight.

    As I write this Matt and I will so a few minutes go to the kitchen and together cook his dinner. It is a regular thing we do on Wednesday. Then finish mowing after he is finished eating.

    I will have to surrender the computer to Matt latter this evening, so I want to get started on what I think is a good subject, not just another book report.

    I get two daily devotionals one is “Our Daily Bread” the other is “Days of Praise”.

    Without the quotations and lessons provided from the Old Testament there would be a great deal of pages missing from both.

    When I brought Matthew home from the hospital and during that last year of his mother’s life the Holy Spirit led me to many passages of Scripture, I have kept them together in a little notebook and sometimes I have to go back and remind myself of What God was saying to me then.

    The words of Isaiah and Peter equally gave me strength and hope, the words from the OT as much as the NT seemed and still seems without interruption all came together and come together for the purpose of comfort, encouragement and strength.

    How lacking the Christian life would be without the Psalms.

    I read today about a book that the daughter of Stephen Hawking put together of her father’s last thoughts concerning God. It was his conclusion that from a lifetime of being an astrophysicist that there is no God.

    God we learn from our exposure to the OT reintroduced Himself to the world of mankind, so that the questions about Him from the misdirected efforts of religions could finally be laid to rest.

    Satan wanted Moses’ body. What do you suppose would have happened if Moses had died and then returned from the grave indwelt with Satan?

    Would just the fact that Moses returned from the grave began an entire new religion? Based solely on the fact that he rose from the dead?

    The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is in total concert with all prophesy found in the OT to herald in the Messiah, the savior of all mankind.

    Simply the story begins with Genesis 1:1 and continues to Revelation 22:21.

    It is a story of God, of Christ and of rebellious man.

    I say again and also as a reply to Mr. Hawkins and perhaps to Mr. Stanley as well, Faith (in God) is not an intellectual exercise.

    Well I made it, Matt will be up to brush his teeth in a few minutes and he then will have the computer for the remainder of the day.

    Blessing to all here.

    Steve

  7. foreverblessed says:

    The book is called Irresisteble.
    I read an article on Christianity Today, October 16 part 1 and October 17 part 2, after having searched for a while.
    What I get from this is that Andy says, he has no new message, the church does not need a reformation, he only wants to bring the message differently to the unbelievers.
    That the christian life is based on the death and resurrection of our Lord and Master Jesus Christ.
    That the bible is a written account, and not the basis of our faith, it desribes the bases of our faith:
    (death and resurrection of Jesus)

    Never heard of him, but that he has a mega church in the ourskirts of Atlanta. 38.000 assembled in different campusses they call it, every Sunday.

    But Mart is talking about the violence.
    So I have to watch Youtube.

  8. foreverblessed says:

    In the former topic I did say something about the love relation God is looking for,
    That Psalm 2:12a
    “Kiss his Son”

    But I have to admit, that I have trouble with vers 12b, the rest of that verse. So I ask God, why do You add this second part,
    Lest He be angry?

    People can interpret that in a wrong way, so we love God, otherwise He will be angry?

    Or how should I see that.
    I heard a sermon once of a pastor, he said, he loves his children very very much. They were waking in the mountainside once, and his youngest son came to close to the edge of a cliff. He said: He got really angry at him. And commanded him never to do that again!

    That is how the anger of God should be explainded, as a parent who sees his child doing a stupid thing. The anger only lastst for a moment, till the person comes to his senses, and changes his ways.
    And the person is saved from his way of getting lost.
    And returns to God, his Savior, His Healer, His Restorer.

    Psalm 2:12
    Kiss his son, or he will be angry
    – – -and your way will lead to your destruction,
    for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
    – – -Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

  9. street says:

    thinking how Gods Word is divisive. light and darkness never mix. separated in Genesis.

    16 Rejoice always, 17 pray continually, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

    19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

    23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

    is Gods Word bringing you closer? is God’s Word troubling you?

    James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.

    the things i have found that trouble me. sin of coarse #1 then there are the others ignorance apathy doubt. then there is the failure to love. the church at laodicea was called on this one. you could call it our prime directive. the greatest command. new hearts and new life required. wherever your heart is there your treasure will be. dear children guard your hearts from idols. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

    seems to me if you want to store stuff in heaven you have to go there to drop stuff off. remembering isaiah peeking into heaven. i hear the vale is gone. thinking further. now that the vale is gone we see Christ sitting, where before, the Invisible God.

  10. jeff1 says:

    The Bible is for the encouragement, knowledge and comfort of believers and many over the years have found the stories and characters to provide just that.

    That is what I believe it is intended for and why it takes a heart for God to see that. I must be seeking God to understand what the Bible is saying.

    Faith in itself is a gift as how non believers can exist in this world not believing in a better world to come is beyond my comprehension.

    God rewards faithfulness as I have seen Him work in my own life when I needed Him most.

    I believe that all God asks of us is for us to trust Him and do our best and He will do the rest but men in their wisdom have changed God to their way rather than allowing God to change them to His.

    Staying focused on ‘Christ’ keeps us from changing God, because, it is, in Jesus, we see God as He wants us to see Him, otherwise He would not have told us to look to His Son.

    There will always be controversies over God and the Bible but we should not let it distract us from what pleases God which is to put our trust in ‘Jesus Christ’ our Saviour and Redeemer.

  11. bubbles says:

    Unhitch ourselves from the covenant at Siani? What does this mean? Is he trying to say that people believe obeying the ten commandments takes them to Heaven? We know it does not.

  12. street says:

    Andy is getting pushback for suggesting that we need to “unhitch” ourselves from the expired covenant of Sinai.

    thinking a New Covenant did not nullify the Covenant God made with israel abraham david or adam. as i think of them they are still in effect. the One Christ started is the best and we are waiting for it to be completed too. waiting seems to be important. Jesus said it was finished, interesting.

  13. street says:

    It’s evident that he’s deeply concerned about the influence of a group of professors and authors who are leveraging a global Internet to call attention to the violence of the God and people of the Old Testament.

    thinking how fear can cripple paralyze defeat neutralize a person. thinking how the cross and the Gospel energizes by love and truth has spread through the world. fear should not be our motivation but truth working it’s self out in love by a Spirit that is foreign to the world.

    not by power, not by might, but by My Spirit says the LORD.

  14. poohpity says:

    street did you even attempt to listen or watch the youtube video’s? but yet you are going on and on about something you know nothing about, how is that? That is also what Andy says about the bible and those who do not read it coming from the most important thing that happened in history, the Resurrection.

  15. street says:

    I’m fairly certain that when he says that for the last 7 or 8 years he’s been quoting David, Moses, Matthew, and Paul rather than what “the Bible says, and— and that when he makes the claim that our faith doesn’t rest in the Bible, but in the resurrection of Jesus, he isn’t just trying to be controversial.

    could part of this be rewritten……letter of the law verses the Spirit of the Law? law without the Spirit is dead. thinking worshipers in Spirit and Truth/Law. Spirit is eternal and that comes from God through His Son, Word/law made flesh. a person is dead because of sin with or without the law. in Christ they live because Christ is alive. all the covenants were made by God and the terms upheld by God, not sinful man who’s only requirement was to believe God, for His Glory and our joy. sin takes so much joy away and destroys the heart and mind of man. no wonder paul speaks about joy in Christ and about rejoicing. they overcame by the blood of the Lamb. we have yet to see the Lion of Judah. thinking we saw Him in the Old Testament too.

  16. poohpity says:

    He says the bible would not even be as we know it today without the resurrection. He explains how the bible came about in it’s present from today from the different experiences each person had with God back them. Before commenting on what he did not say why not hear what he did say before you talk about something you know nothing about, isn’t that how rumors, assuming and jumping to conclusions come from to start with?

  17. street says:

    But I’m convinced that Andy has hold of something that could help explain why so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them.

    2 Thessalonians 2
    because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the “Spirit and faith in the truth”. 14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

  18. street says:

    thinking about how people coming to faith through Bible reading and no Christian or church background. what traditions would they come up with and how would they practice them?

  19. poohpity says:

    The reason it no longer has a hold on people is because they no longer read it. Andy told of how important just one piece of a letter from Paul or Luke or anyone else who spent time with Jesus was so important to them. They loved hearing the eye witness reports of those who were with Jesus and how the first century church started before they even had the bible as we know it.

  20. Beloved says:

    Sin and the legalists steal the joy of knowing Christ and the great grace of God. Thank God He has overcome all that.

  21. street says:

    i was commenting from marts post, isn’t that what this blog is about? if i said nothing why are we talking about nothing? i thought i was trying to promote Christ. i must have failed. i think mart is promoting a new life in the resurrected Christ not stanley. the interesting implication i am getting is a Spirit filled life apart from the Word/Bible? 2 Thessalonians 2 i highlighted Spirit faith and Truth/Word. don’t think it will work neglecting any of these. which encompasses all of Christ, His Spirit, the object of our faith, and Truth incarnate or written on paper. if i remember the epistles with keep us out of a lot of hot water.

  22. Beloved says:

    Street you always promote Christ. Praying for ears to hear. The deaf scream the loudest.

  23. poohpity says:

    The topic is about the 2 videos from Andy Stanley on “The Bible for Grown-ups—last things first” and one book, “Irresistible” but he also put out a video about that book you can find when you watch the other 2 videos. Then you will understand what the rest of the topic is about and it is about something amazing and nothing to do with what you are talking about. If you would just take the time to watch you would understand that.

    How “Irresistible” are the things that the people wrote who experienced Jesus first hand that lead to having the B-I-B-L-E we know today and how back then how people gathered around with enthusiasm to read what was written compared to today even if it was just a small section. Instead of saying “the bible says” he makes it personal as Andy was saying Paul said or John said or David said but sorry I do not go on what street says because I often do not understand what exactly is being said at all anyway.

  24. Beloved says:

    Try asking him what he means.

  25. Beloved says:

    B I B L E, if any know that old song it’s a favorite among my neighbors when a local pastor/wife come bi- monthly to lead a hymn sing and a monthly communion. Very few read their bibles if they have one but still remember the old songs from Sunday school years ago. I have given some bibles but they are mostly clueless about what it says. So sad, they love the song, but not the Singer, Jesus. Praying daily for them and sometimes with them is a grace out my own inheritance. Probably not what Mart is getting at but I just wanted to share that Jesus, the author of our faith and salvation is alive, in the Book and outside the Book. He’s everywhere!

  26. SFDBWV says:

    In the picture Mart has accompanying his topic we see two horses, though not “yoked” together, they are hitched together and pull their load together.

    In most cultures we all understand that when a man and woman marry they get “hitched”.

    For the horses to be unhitched they will run free and in the matter of matrimony getting unhitched is a divorce.

    One comment Mart brought forward from his reading of “Andy” was that “we need to unhitch ourselves from the “expired” covenant of Sinai.”

    Since when does God’s covenants expire? When do God’s promises expire?

    I have no doubt that “Andy” has pushback from people who believe that Jesus prayed to the Father, that Jesus represented the Father, that Jesus did all that the Father ask of Him.

    In Revelation it is Jesus the Lamb of God who is worthy to open the seals and pour out tribulation on the world. Anyone who reads Revelation has to have a knowledge of the OT.

    Unhitching from everything that transpired to bring about the covenant at Sinai is to ignore all of the prophesy that follows in the relationship between God and man.

    Including the warnings that herald in the end of the age and return of Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

    32 and frosty.

    Steve

  27. poohpity says:

    In between Genesis and Revelation is a letter from Paul to the Romans in which he tires to explain that we are no longer held captive to the law (the old covenant given from Mt Sinai)after the Resurrection Jesus established a new covenant, the old is gone and the new has come. Paul explains in Romans 7 as is in most of Paul’s letters to the new churches. But one has to read those letters to understand that the old is gone and the new has come or they continue to be hitched to that which only produced death not new life in Christ. But again one has to read about that, just as one has to listen to the video’s to know what Mart is talking about.

  28. poohpity says:

    For instance if one reads the letter Paul wrote to the Galatians you will find that Paul confronted Peter as well as other Jewish believers(Gal 2:11-13) about leading the new converts to go back and follow the law even when they knew the law did nothing but show people that it was impossible to follow the law and point out their sin. Under the law was a life of condemnation with a life in the Spirit gave freedom(unhitched)from that which only was a burden no one could carry. The age old struggle of law vs grace and awww so many are still struggling with it today because they can not get themselves out of the way to see that grace comes from God they can do nothing to earn it.

  29. jeff1 says:

    I’ve hesitated to weigh in too quickly on the waves of disagreement that have made “The Bible for Grown-ups” and “Irresistible” a matter of rumour and alarm. But I’m convinced that Andy has hold of something that could help explain why so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them.

    Whether I see it that way or not I am a product of my time and so God may very well use Mr Stanley for His purpose.

    The truth is, what it is, and today, the Bible, does not have a hold because as we touched on in the last topic even modern day preachers do not necessarily construct their sermons from it.

    That being said it is not our decision to unhitch ourselves from what God has done in the past, it is for God, to reveal, to us, as He sees fit, and when He sees fit.

    As for the violence in the Old Testament, violence is still very much a part of our time as it was then so we live with it and I personally struggle with my own demons.

    I agree, Steve, I need to be extra vigilant in what I buy into in these times as irrespective of the changes in this world ‘Christ’ still needs to be the focus of my world.

  30. poohpity says:

    As Paul explained to those who would listen that he was brought up as a Pharisee who’s zeal was to follow the law even leading to the death of Christians UNTIL he meant the Resurrected Christ on the road to Damascus, his life was changed from that point on. Why would he lead people to go back under the very law that Jesus died to free people from?

    Andy speaks about how hard it is to change from what one has been brainwashed into believing from those who preach Judaism to following the Way but you can not have it both ways.

    Gal 5: So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.

    2 Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 I’ll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses. 4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

  31. poohpity says:

    God saw fit to unhitch us from the law when He took on human flesh to show us the way to have a close relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. In the OT God even provided temporary sacrifices when the law was broken until His final and eternal sacrifice was finished. The very One that had been prophesied about from the start of creation and the very first time someone disobeyed Him in the garden.

  32. poohpity says:

    When we had the topic of legalism and if no one could answer sincerely whether they are or not, this may open blinded eyes when someone talks about following the law of the old covenant rather than living by the Spirit of grace.

  33. foreverblessed says:

    Hello everybody, just checked in, to read everybodies comments. I have very little time to be on the computer, and indeed, I do not have the time to check what Andy said.
    1) Unhitched, getting loosened from the OT laws
    2) concerned about people talking about the violence of people and of God in the OT,

    and it is not clear to me what Andies concern is:
    a-Are people (christians) preaching too much about the violence,
    b-or do professers who are not christians talk too much about the violence in the bible, to bring the bible in discredit,
    c-Or does Andy believe that God is indeed a God of wrath, and we should talk about that. SO we repent and turn from our ways.

    is it a, b or c, or another thing.
    For that I have to check myself, and as I said, there is no time.

    Today I have been to horpital with a friend, who had colon cancer, and now she had a cyste, which grew fast. They took it away last week, it was a big surgery, and the bad news was today, that it had the same cancer.
    There is also a small spot in her liver. But that is still small.
    Now the chemo can only start after she has really recoverd from the operation.

    Keep calm, stay in the rest. Stay close to Jesus. Easy said when your body is healthy.

    So she asked me if I wanted to go to the river, so we did. Just to see nature. See the colors of the trees.

    But this is also good wheather to paint outside. I was busy painting.
    This has been exceptional good wheather, a bit strange too. It has something to do with a hurricane Leslie, that changed into a tropical storm, that has moved from the US to Europe, also exceptional.

    We have sunny days, warm evenings, just like June.
    It is slowly getting colder now.

    I have written this, and in the mean time I could have watched one Andy video.
    But I am part of Mart’s blog, it feels like homework.

    Never mind. Stay in the rest, and don’t make a hard burden on anyone else.

  34. foreverblessed says:

    About the violence in the bible, that humans have done it is explainable, they still do.
    But the violence of God.

    I have this question: What is the wrath of God?

    Since we have been justified by His blodd, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through Him?
    Romans 5:9

    In the greek it does not say: God’s wrath,
    it says:
    from the wrath.

    Without being saved we are left alone, without God.
    That is not a good place to be.
    But must God’s wrath be appeased by a sacrifice?
    Is that it?

    I have sincerely questions about that.
    Or is there a sacrifice needed, that all the stripes that where on Jesus are now needed to restore us, and make us whole.
    Do our own infirmities need the suffering and blood, and the death?

    This is Mart’s blog, so if these questions of mine are in line with what he wants to be discussed, don’t know..

    But be blessed all of you, in Jesus’ name!

  35. poohpity says:

    If something is “Irresistible” then that means it is a desire from deep within our hearts and souls, it is not forced like homework is, it should be with a great desire and love to learn and grow in our relationship with the Lord, not because we have to but because we want to. Just as is reading what we now call the bible it is irresistible to those who are saved to grow closer to God in understanding and devotion just as anyone does with someone they love, they desire to spend as much time with them as possible and put them first in every area of their life. Where does God fit into our lives? Is He an after thought or on the bottom of a long list of other things or is He irresistible?

  36. phpatato says:

    Mart I am sorry. I haven’t heard of Andy Stanley before. I only found out that he is the son of Charles Stanley by doing a google search on who he is. I haven’t read the book Irresistible. As for watching You Tube, I simply cannot do You Tube at all. I live in the country. There are no DSL cables or no fiber optic cables running along my lonely country road. There have been no trees bulldozed down in order to build populated subdivisions. That means there are still plenty of trees…hence the term country. To get a signal to a distant and scattered satellite tower means that I have to have a clear line of sight for that signal to be received, which is then bounced to the satellite in space. I do not have a clear line of sight because of the trees. My only option, to get “high speed” internet is by using what is called a Turbo Hub. That uses a cell phone tower to get a signal. Because my signal uses a cell tower, my internet package is treated like a cell phone and so I am charged the same rates as a cell phone. City folk pay $80 a month for 250GB of data (or termed “unlimited data”). I pay $60 a month for a measly 5GB of data and then tiered and charged more for every 5 GB used over my limit of 5GB. I can sneeze and go over 5GB in data. I do not have the luxury of watching You Tube because it is a data glutton.

    So without having watched it, according to one here, I am not qualified to express an opinion.

    I will say though, like Jeff, I do agree with the direction Steve is headed with his comment and I enjoyed reading Street’s take on it as well.

  37. Beloved says:

    Dear Pat it’s so good to hear from you! Your voice is always welcome and so glad to read you, Jeff and Forever this morning as I was so frustrated last evening. I prayed before I logged on, LORD, should I quit the blog? He answered that He heard me and that’s all. So, I come today enjoying Forevers story of painting and spending time with her friend with cancer, as my friend has stage 4 and after chemo will have a kidney, hysterectomy, part of liver and spleen removed then more chemo. (praying for your friend also) There’s something about sharing our lives that is so encouraging. Forever I was an art major in high school with awards. Impressionism was and still is my favorite, Monet, Roualt, etc. I quit painting long ago though. Now I do puzzles, and especially of classics of great art. I’m so glad you are still painting! God bless you all my dears and I will be more selective of who I let into my day. It’s a choice, of what I watch on tv, internet, or the blog. Staying away from antagonistic, critical, characters that want to kill steal and destroy the joy of the LORD God has so graciously given me is wise.

    Jesus please heal the wounds on the blog and bless us with your mercy, grace, and love. May your justice prevail. May the troubling voices be stilled as we bow in Your presence. Amen

  38. street says:

    3 When I think of all this, I, Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus for the benefit of you Gentiles . . . 2 assuming, by the way, that you know God gave me the special responsibility of extending his grace to you Gentiles. 3 As I briefly wrote earlier, God himself revealed his mysterious plan to me. 4 As you read what I have written, you will understand my insight into this plan regarding Christ. 5 God did not reveal it to previous generations, but now by his Spirit he has revealed it to his holy apostles and prophets.

    paul given to the church for edification exhortation and comfort in Christ Jesus. you can’t have One with out the other. yoked.

  39. poohpity says:

    Pat, no one ever said you can not comment if you do not listen to those video’s what was said by me however is “how” can one comment on something they know nothing about? At that point one is just guessing, or jumping to conclusions or assuming about what Mart is saying but that has never stopped anyone in the past and I am sure it will not now.

    Not many on here even care anything about teaching from the Lord or from David, or Paul, or Luke or Matthew or Mark, etc.. they just do not care and have no desire to learn about such things, that is more than obvious by attacking those who do.

  40. poohpity says:

    FYI, 5GB is how fast a computer runs and downloads. My hook-up handles 5GB and I can watch YouTube sometimes it just takes an extra second or two to start rather than instantaneously.

  41. jeff1 says:

    poohpity says:
    October 18, 2018 at 7:50 am

    When we had the topic of legalism and if no one could answer sincerely whether they are or not, this may open blinded eyes when someone talks about following the law of the old covenant rather than living by the Spirit of grace.

    I cannot answer what I cannot be sure of myself.

    What I do know is that it was God who brought me to where I am today and so I will trust Him to get me home.

    I may see that Mr Stanley’s intentions are good but if I have learned anything in life it is that I cannot play God whatever my good intentions.

    I may not like the violence in the Old Testament but I do not like the violence in this world today but it is still happening.

    As I see it I have comfort living in the Spirit of Grace that I won’t have from being legalistic but the truth is that it doesn’t make me any more righteous.

    I think what I am trying to say is that knowing I have God’s Grace does not make me any more deserving of it.

  42. street says:

    Oswald Chambers devotional speaks to issue of this post today 10/18/2018 The Key to the Missionary’s Devotion

    Faith Word Spirit all from God not the flesh.

    totally stunned that God’s Spirit can dwell in human flesh. the cross changed everything. far away yet so near. rejoice!

  43. Beloved says:

    ..should be considered carefully…

    Reminded that nothing can frustrate the plans or truth of God. Especially flesh.

  44. phpatato says:

    Dearly Beloved, we are gathered here in the presence of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ…. I have to admit, when I read or hear that beginning line in a marriage ceremony, I think of you. lol

    Matthew 18:20 – “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

    If pooh stopped her crusade of judging and condemning, to realize that He is here among us, I am sure, as the Christian she professes to be, she would guard her tongue and post with a little more decency. Right now she reserves that for when someone openly complains to Mart about her. Mentioning his name seems to straighten her out for a short period of time. And that brings me to this….there is a full moon rising. Just a heads up.

    I often have a comment that I’d like to make. I don’t.

    1) I don’t want to possibly poke to antagonize the lion.
    2)I respect and regard those gathered here too highly to be a cause for her to possibly become nasty. Any given day will result in polar opposite remarks from her and there is no way of knowing what polar end of the spectrum she’s at on any particular day. And as a heads up…there is a full moon rising.
    3) Guarding my emotional self-worth is too important to me to have her belittle me

    So saying nothing serves two purposes. She has less ground to pounce from and I am not the cause of waking her up so she can bully. But I will add, I have an aversion to bullies. When I see someone being bullied for no cause whatsoever, I am not afraid to go head to head with the bully in hopes of beating them off. I had to learn that because I grew up with a sister two years older than me and married a man who have type A personalities. I am a typical type B. It took me many many years to see that in order to have any kind of self-worth, I needed to stand up and not be bullied. I am sorry that that learned response flows to this blog because there are times that I do snap when I see the Blog’s Bully wreaking havoc by slamming ignorant nasty comments onto unsuspecting innocent bloggers. Bottom line??? It isn’t worth the cost to comment until the bully has her ammo taken away.

    Until she realizes that her comments are being spoken in front of her Lord and Saviour….if she doesn’t care about that fact, she won’t care at all about anything.

    And yes! This is off topic kinda. Ooops. Beware the blog police.

  45. Beloved says:

    Last week I brought up frustration with my study leader for not bringing up grace overall in studying Job. Street you mention getting lost in job and the OT. Monday our leader brought it up right away, that she forgot to bring in the grace and mercy of God when we sin. That was so good to hear, that God has reminded her, just as He had me through street posting Marts comment from ODB. Oh the wonder of the spirit of God, who communicates in our human bodies and through His body, the church. Like you said street, stunned that the Spirit of God can dwell in human flesh! But not really, it’s gotten to be as a second breath that lifts me to heaven and holds me, as OC talks about. A truly Second nature. He holds us if we let Him, yet ever holds His church together. Stunning!

  46. Beloved says:

    Pat unfortunately the blog narcissist, not unlike our president, enjoys the attention but woe to anyone who thinks differently! It’s really no win except to not read/listen. I rarely listen to news for that reason, but I do love you (99%) here, with affection. So will continue with my Christian family here that I hold as very dear to me, that God has blessed me with. Words aren’t going to change anyone, especially those without the Spirit indwelling them. If they do change its only temporary, as I’ve seen here many times over the years, getting hopeful for a minute, but then the bad behavior returns. Change through Christ is everlasting. He alone is our hope. Pat you too are Christs beloved!

  47. jeff1 says:

    This quote from C. S Lewis for anyone who is in pain today.

    God, who foresaw your tribulation, has specially armed you to go through it, not without pain but without stain.

  48. street says:

    Unhitched and Irresistible

    could it be unhitched from self/sin of the past and irresistibly yoked to Jesus our Savior? given a new Spirit renewed each day. Ephesians 5:26
    so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,………….the present. our feet can not, not get dirty walking down here. some day streets of gold. the yellow road. yellow bricks? perhaps, but made by the hand of God.

    thinking of the Church of Corinth. beloved children of God every one. even the one caught in sexual sin. the grace and mercy of the Lord are indeed Great. we do suffer to be conformed to the image of Christ. let us not suffer from disobedience. if we are, All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. still a child, always a child of God. God makes no mistakes. we do and will continue in grace if the Lord permits.

  49. street says:

    7 No one calls on your name
    or strives to lay hold of you;
    for you have hidden your face from us
    and have given us over to our sins.

    8 Yet you, Lord, are our Father.
    We are the clay, you are the potter;
    we are all the work of your hand.
    9 Do not be angry beyond measure, Lord;
    do not remember our sins forever.
    Oh, look on us, we pray,
    for we are all your people.
    10 Your sacred cities have become a wasteland;
    even Zion is a wasteland, Jerusalem a desolation.
    11 Our holy and glorious temple, where our ancestors praised you,
    has been burned with fire,
    and all that we treasured lies in ruins.
    12 After all this, Lord, will you hold yourself back?
    Will you keep silent and punish us beyond measure?

  50. street says:

    thinking of Jesus Unhitched and Irresistible
    my joy and crown

    paul speaks of believers as his joy and crown.

    amazing

    a treasure hidden in a field.

  51. street says:

    thoughts from Philippians 4

    children be of the same mind.

    rejoice in the Lord!

    The Lord is near. 6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

    peace

    dwell on these things, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise

    10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at last you have revived your concern for me; indeed, you were concerned before, but you lacked opportunity.

  52. Beloved says:

    Tribulation IS inevitable, but Jesus has made a way through it and left His word through scripture to teach us how to go through. Since Sinai we still as individuals must choose to obey and enter the promised rest or keep on going around the same mountain over and over again.

    Best to look back and praise God for taking us through said mountain, in this God is well pleased. Rejoicing in my Rock, Jesus!

  53. phpatato says:

    Pooh For you information….. 5GB of data is the cap or the maximum to how much data I can have to play with, whether sent or received. My data cap/maximum threshold is 5GB. The information I bring in or send out is capped at 5GB. If I use the internet for more than 5GB data, I am charged extra for what I use.

    Download/upload speed which is what you are talking about is how fast that 5GB data (or information) is transferred from the internet to my computer – download – or how fast data is sent from my computer to the internet – upload -. That speed is measured as kbps or mbps. Kbps (dial up measurement) is slower than mbps (high speed measurement).

    FYI My download speed is 8.84 mbps. My upload speed is 1.52 mbps. Ping is 39. What that means is with a speed of 8.84, it shouldn’t take 4 hours to download a 2 hour movie to my computer. There should be very little buffering. It would, however, take 4 hours and likely way more to download a 2 hour movie if I had a slow dial up speed. And for certain I would be over my 5GB limit if I downloaded a 2 hr movie because I am over my limit each month as it is and all I am doing is email, a bit of facebook, checking weather, BTA and some Google searches.

    So the next time you FYI, watch a video first so that you can’t be accused of “”” what was said by me however is “how” can one comment on something they know nothing about? At that point one is just guessing, or jumping to conclusions or assuming”””.

  54. Beloved says:

    Now I’m furious, I hate seeing my friends bullied.

  55. Beloved says:

    Unhinged almost here but not quite, lol! I’m learning I don’t need to defend myself but just keep speaking of Jesus. However, I will defend those who are victimized. Pat she definitely only heard half of what you said then used it to pounce on you. Typical. I too cringe when she accuses me of not reading the Bible or not listening to the disciples/ apostles teachings. Yet I understand that persecution drives me to Christ. The church grows and thrives under persecution. Why? Because it causes us to be closer to God and to glorify Him because we know that we, not the enemy, is going to spend eternity with God. I just heard this from Piper today. Gods timing is always excellent!

    A favorite scripture of mine is: When the enemy comes in like a flood, the LORD will raise up a standard against him.

    He’s my life jacket in the storm!

  56. jeff1 says:

    Bridge over Troubled Water

    When you’re weary, feeling small
    When tears are in your eyes, I’ll dry them all (all)
    I’m on your side, oh, when times get rough
    And friends just can’t be found
    Like a bridge over troubled water
    I will lay me down
    Like a bridge over troubled water
    I will lay me down
    When you’re down and out
    When you’re on the street
    When evening falls so hard
    I will comfort you (ooo)
    I’ll take your part, oh, when darkness comes
    And pain is all around
    Like a bridge over troubled water
    I will lay me down
    Like a bridge over troubled water
    I will lay me down

    Sail on silver girl
    Sail on by
    Your time has come to shine
    All your dreams are on their way
    See how they shine
    Oh, if you need a friend
    I’m sailing right behind
    Like a bridge over troubled water
    I will ease your mind
    Like a bridge over troubled water
    I will ease your mind

  57. foreverblessed says:

    Oct 18, 10.47 am
    “As I see it I have comfort living in the Spirit of Grace that I won’t have from being legalistic but the truth is that it doesn’t make me any more righteous.

    I think what I am trying to say is that knowing I have God’s Grace does not make me any more deserving of it.”

    I thought that very good Jeff, it gave me a good laugh.

    And Beloved, I wanted to thank you for your testimony in the last topic, October 13, thank you for being so honost.

    Pat, you are very welcome here. Only do not fret, study Psalm 37
    It is such a waste of time and energy. Just keep your eyes on Jesus. With God everything is possible only He takes time.

    Thank you too, Beloved for sharing your experiences with your friend, that is a hard journey. Is your friend a christian? Mine is, so at times I am witnissing that Jesus really is there, and I sense the peace and rest deep inside her. But that is only at times, the next moment it is down to earth again, and worrying starts.
    It is good to live a day at a time, but very hard to do, when you know that your body is failing you, and what things are going to happen.
    God promises to never leave us, nor forsake us.

    “the pain but no stain” from CS Lewis.
    Jeff, that was indeed very good,
    Yes, in the end we will be glad we have no stain.

    BUt it is also true that as soon as we accepted Jesus as our Lord, His Cross, made us snow white. No stain.
    That is the start, after that the following of Jesus, our journey with Him

    That path is necessary, (good spelling?)

    But always with Jesus, in His strength, not a moment should we think we can do it, on our own.
    In Grace.

    And the bible promises that as we will share in the glory of Jesus, we will also share in His suffering.
    But then in the other way round.
    I am going to bed, sleep well, may God watch over you.

  58. foreverblessed says:

    Oh, and the laugh is not mocking, but I found it very funny. Good sense of humor.

  59. jeff1 says:

    I am glad you share my sense of humour, Forever, as we are renowned for it but we are also said to have quite a black sense of humour and so may not always be appreciated.

  60. Beloved says:

    Forever I had to get to my quiet place and listen to the LORD for a while after pouring out my frustration here. He led me through Psalm2 and Psalm26. Then to I Peter 4:12-19. My soul is at rest and deeply comforted.

    My friend has faith but wavers depending on who she’s with, which has troubled me for a while now. She doesn’t want to hear anything about God for the last year and our relationship which was once like sisters has become very strained and even awkward. But I still love her as a sister and help where she’ll allow. Praying God will help her to decide if she’s going to follow Him or not through this horrible suffering and worst test of her life. She hasn’t been to church or bible study in about a year. This is a huge test for her right now. I’m sure bubbles could give me some good advice. Joyce

  61. Beloved says:

    It just occurs to me that whether she is consciously following/leaning on Jesus or not that He is actually holding her. Thank you LORD.

  62. Beloved says:

    @6:01 I misstated, Psalm2 was wrong it was Psalm1.

  63. Beloved says:

    Forever thanks for the reminder of what I said on the 13th “Perhaps the next time I run into an ‘enemy?’ I can say thank you, Lord, for using this one to temper my pride and bless them.

    My glory I will not give to another.”

    Well, guess I failed this test, this time. But it’s never too late to start. Yes LORD I thank you for humbling me through my enemy and I ask you to bless pooh, because I can’t right now and my blessing would mean nothing anyway. All I can do is bring her before YOU to do with as You please. Amen

  64. bubbles says:

    I watched the video. Nothing new to me. I still don’t understand what’s controversial about what he said. Doesn’t everyone know how the Bible came to be compiled? I just don’t understand this, and will have nothing else to say. I’m so very humbled and thankful to have my Bible! Thankful for whatever reason God allowed me to exist in a time of peace. Thankful for those who died so that I may have a copy of the Word of God. Think of Tyndale, among others. Oh my.

  65. poohpity says:

    I am not the enemy of anyone of you on here but you do seem to spend more time listening to your real enemy without even realizing it.

    Anyway, I will go back to talking about the topic as usual. Andy’s video is, “The Bible For grown-Ups, Part 1: Last Things First.” “Most of us know some Bible stories, but very few of us know the story of the Bible. And it may be surprising to discover it’s a story that doesn’t actually begin in the beginning. It begins with the accounts of a few men who sat down to record the death and resurrection of Jesus. It begins with the words of his followers who were compelled to document the events that had changed everything for them—because they knew it could change everything for us.” Andy Stanley

    It begins with the song, “The B-I-B-L-E that is the book for me. I stand alone on the word of God, the B-I-B-L-E and looks at the aging of a child from a young age and loving to listen and read the bible stories until it was no longer important to him because everything else in life was more important than God. Andy shares just how important the B-I-B-L-E is to us as an adult for those who love the Lord and want a close relationship with him. It probably would not interest any one on this blog anyway but I thank you for sharing it Mart as I said in the beginning of this topic. I have since shared it with some of my friends, it comes at a good time with what is happening all around us in the world and in the heart of those who “say” they are followers of Jesus but seem not to pursue Him in anyway.

  66. poohpity says:

    bubbles there are two parts and then another video on “Irresistible”. I am glad you watched it. It was very good to me and the new approach Andy and his church has chosen to share the story of the bible and how they address it telling the story of those who wrote each part of it and how even threatened with death were COMPELLED to continue to write no matter what and pass those letters around to all those churches and how excited they all were to read them. But now it does not seem that exciting to a majority of grown ups but rather take it for granted and just put it on the self.

  67. Beloved says:

    Bubbles I read part of an interview done with Andy Stanley on the Christianity Today website. I’m not sure what his detractors are saying but here’s a short quote from him about Irresistible:

    “At the end of the day, I’m just trying to get people to realize that the 66 books of the Bible are not where we learn about things from initially—it was the church and their very real exposure to the story of the resurrection that we get these accounts from. This story came from was eye witnesses who saw things happen with their very own eyes; it was these stories that were eventually documented and collected.

    That’s my entire point. ”
    End quote.

    He’s uncomfortable with pastors saying “The bible says..” He would rather they said “paul says, or Peter says” . That’s my limited take on it. But I’m with you, I suppose because I’m not a pastor, but I did learn from my bible and still do. Of course I am a senior so feel ok about it but his point is we need a new way to reach the current generation that are growing up with access to so much information through daily internet use. I like what he’s saying, thinking about the challenges today’s pastors have. But in the end His church will survive come hell or high water. As the old saying goes.

  68. Beloved says:

    Forever I’ve been thinking about fellowship and why it continues to be derailed here . I was studying about Absalom, David’s son and the woman from Tekoa who said in 2 Samuel 14:14(NIV)
    14 Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But that is not what God desires; rather, he devises ways so that a banished person does not remain banished from him.

    And how did He do that? Through Christ of course! I John 1:9 ok,
    so
    what about fellowship? 1 John 1:6-7 and there we have it.

    God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. Fellowship with darkness is impossible. I John 1:5

  69. Beloved says:

    Even though David pardoned his son ( legally)God still killed him. The best thing we can do is forgive and then it’s up to them whether they repent or not. No repentance, no fellowship. It’s that simple. On heaven or on earth.

  70. foreverblessed says:

    Dear Pat:
    “Take delight in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart.”
    Psalm 37:4

    the verse of the day of Biblegateway.

    dear Beloved, thank you very much for your encouragement, about painting. And I did have a wonderful night, I woke up in the middle of it, but my heart was filled with peace and joy. And I knew that it was grace from God, as it was bigger than me. I was figuring, it was because of your prayers! Thank you all. We could be such a praying and encouraging lot here, all because of the miracle working power of Jesus Christ, in faith.
    But we have to decide to let go of fretting. Give the fretting to God.
    Let go and let God.

    So easy to say, and now doing it. It is a struglle, isn’t it, that is how you can see that God does not take over, He waits for our consent. Do we really want to do it? And keep at it, day after day, insult after insult. Till we find our hearts are changed, and we are not insulted anymore, we just praise God.

    This story of David and Absalom is very difficult for me to understand, Absalom may come back, after this woman of Tekoa has asked him that to do so, who was sent by Joab. David finally sees his son, and kisses him. But the real trouble coms after that.

    But you are right, reconciliation is important in a christian fellowship. I have concluded that a long time ago, and my instruction was Matthew 18:15-20
    This is Jesus’ teaching, and that is now our “Law” so to speak, not that we are being legalistic following Jesus’s laws the same way as we did the OT laws. No, we are under grace, and that means, any command of Jesus is like a promise.

    Street gave this verse:

    The Lord is faithful,
    He will do it

    HE WILL DO IT

    That is a great message. So we look up to Him.

    We can do it in faith in His Resurrection Power.

    That is it, The Resurrection!

    But God will not go alongside us, after we have agreed to His will. That is, when we are saved and now are disciples of Jesus. There are conditions. And that does not mean that we are proud, as if it depends on us. But God wants our consent!
    That is meant with obedience I think.
    Just like Corrie ten Boom stretched out her hand to that camp bully, what asked her to forgive him. She had to stretch out her hand and after that the forgiveness from above flowed through her.

    I am ranting, or rambling, what is the word.
    But May God bless you much, and He will do it.
    Keep your eyes on Him

  71. foreverblessed says:

    The power of the Resurrection:

    ephesians 1:15-23

    ” For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[a] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

    19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,

    21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

    Emphasis on Ephesians 1:19-20

  72. SFDBWV says:

    When trying to find the exact words to describe what it took to be the first American to climb into a capsule allow a controlled explosion of enormous energy so as to be catapulted into orbit around the globe, splash down into the ocean and survive the ordeal, the best linguist’s could come up with was, “The right “stuff”.

    When watching, listening to, or interacting with people who call themselves “Christian” it is that indwelling of the Holy Spirit that produces the “fruit” that shows when a person has the “right stuff”, or not.

    My/our friend Pat certainly has the right stuff and it is my good fortune and blessing to call her friend.

    Far too many “friends” here have grown silent and left this arena because of the attack dog that haunts and hunts here.

    As I said at the beginning I think the subject of Marts comments are important, the subject being people being *turned off* or *tuned out* about hearing people and preachers use the term “the Bible says”.

    As the deeper hidden complaint is that people are tired of hearing the same old message over and over again and have doubts about it all.

    It isn’t about a book report on what Andy/Andrew Stanley said.

    It is about the intellectual attitude of a younger generation and whether or not they find the story of the Bible relevant to them at all.

    It is about how do we as believers, whether clergy or lay person, bring the message of Christ and introduction of salvation to a new generation that is tired of the old ways and are looking for something fresh.

    It is about whether or not the rejection of the old ways are a new way of rejecting God or a new way of embracing Him.

    There is no need to go off to “You Tube” in order to give a book report, simple look at the last comment Mart shared with us; “But I am convinced that Andy has hold of something that could help explain why so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them.”

    There is the subject there is the question, there is the dilemma.

    27 degrees under a starry sky.

    Steve

  73. jeff1 says:

    SFDBWV says:
    October 19, 2018 at 5:00 am

    There is no need to go off to “You Tube” in order to give a book report, simple look at the last comment Mart shared with us; “But I am convinced that Andy has hold of something that could help explain why so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them.”

    There is the subject there is the question, there is the dilemma.

    I don’t see that there is anything to be critical of Andy for as he is addressing issues to difficult questions that effect the future.

    The truth is that God is misunderstood by many and that is more man’s fault than God’s but I do not like unhitching myself from the God of the past when it is the generation’s of the future that Mr Stanley is addressing.

    I am just not sure that unhitching myself to the laws of the Old Testament are for me as I have to be prepared to take the God of Wrath with the God of Grace as I have to understand that there are times when God has and will see a need for it and I would rather be disciplined by God as He sees fit because I do not always understand His ways and it may be I am in need of it.

    I very much see Grace when I know I have failed God and am sorry for it but what about when I am blinded to seeing God’s ways, and, my failings, then should I not expect God to show His displeasure, if it brings me to my knees, not for the good of the Gospel, but for the good of me who is wandering from His ways.

    I need to give God room for manoeuvre to correct me if I am to get closer to His ways.

  74. poohpity says:

    In the first century after being a witness to the resurrection when they did not have any social media, so because of their persecution they went around all the neighboring towns and cities sharing what they witnessed with great excitement. Then there were those in the groups that wrote down what they experienced then those documents also began to spread like a wildfire. People were so excited to just have a paragraph of any of those letters, just like many people in other countries, where the bible is not allowed, cherish even a fraction of a page of the bible.

    Not only the miracles that Jesus did but the resurrection and then the appearance of the One resurrected must have been something so amazing to share with anyone and everyone. Now we have all that contained in a book that even holds the Antique scrolls that Jesus taught from that told about Himself when he went into the Temple.

    I remember sitting with my kids with reading age appropriate bibles when they were in grade school as they got older the bibles became more detailed but then I let it get away. They saw me go into my room every morning for my quite time but that was my time and sadly I did not include them which was a horrible mistake. Being a single parent then there was sports, school, other activities but I did show them how important that time with the Lord was to me. The big mistake I made was not including them through that even when they got older with family time other than sitting together and watching TV. Then there was period of 4 years that I stopped myself which was very noticeable in every area of my life at that time. But it became irresistible to me again, Praise God for the desire placed deep within me.

  75. Beloved says:

    Viv last night I was thinking about 1 John 1:9(NIV)
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

    Just! That’s what you are talking about. Gods justice prevails, always, whether an Absalom or me or you, God will forgive our sins as we confess them! Such great good news since the Sinai where many perished because of unbelief. As for the law, I agree it’s good. I think it was Paul who said the Law is our tutor. Jesus followed the Law perfectly. He did not come to negate the Law but to fulfill all its requirements. And as He did that became the stoning sacrifice for all. If you look at the Law carefully you will find that every point of law is summed up in Jesus words; love God, love your neighbor. Jesus showed us how to do that as you know.

    At times I fail miserably but He restores my battered soul.

    Great is thy faithfulness
    Oh God my Father.
    There is no shadow
    Of turning in thee.
    All I have needed
    They hand hath provided.
    Blessings are mine
    With 10,000 beside.

  76. poohpity says:

    Jesus said, ““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” Who had the ability to follow all the law but the very One from whom it came? Every detail of the life of Jesus was shown to be One who was obedient to every detail that was why He made the perfect sacrifice for those who don’t, so why not use the book that has been kept in circulation for thousands of years to learn the will of God, for us to know Him. From ages to ages. Hitch yourself to Jesus who was hitched to the law and realize that because of Him we can unhitch ourselves from what was humanly impossible to do or there would have been no need of the grace of God through the suffering, the crucifixion or the resurrection if we were able to follow law. Why be hitched to something that was already fulfilled by Jesus.

  77. poohpity says:

    Oh Pat you were right about me knowing little about all the techno stuff other than 5gb being the speed. I had my friend yesterday try over her phone to listen to that video and she was unable to do so because it would not play well at all. I am no where near being tech savvy at all, it took me 2 months even to learn how to answer my so called smart phone because obviously it was smarter than me but I am learning so someone who knows more and schooling me on it, is something I appreciate very much but I do not need to put them down for doing so.

  78. poohpity says:

    Beloved, didn’t Jesus forgive our sins before we even committed them on the Cross that day, when He said “it is finished”? Past, present and future. When we confess, isn’t it just showing we agree with God that we sin which He had a plan from the beginning to do so?

  79. poohpity says:

    If we are to busy looking into the lives of others and finding their faults and the evil that lies within them seldom do we see the person with the evil and faults looking back at us when we look in the mirror, we tend to forget the person looking back at us from that mirror.

    James said, “Understand this, my dear brothers and sisters: You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry. Human anger does not produce the righteousness God desires. So get rid of all the filth and evil in your lives, and humbly accept the word God has planted in your hearts, for it has the power to save your souls.

    But don’t just listen to God’s word. You must do what it says. Otherwise, you are only fooling yourselves. For if you listen to the word and don’t obey, it is like glancing at your face in a mirror. You see yourself, walk away, and forget what you look like. But if you look carefully into the perfect law that sets you free, and if you do what it says and don’t forget what you heard, then God will bless you for doing it.”

    Isn’t here James referring to the Gospel but calls it the perfect law?

  80. poohpity says:

    James is not calling believers to see legalistic rule-following as the path to being blessed. He is writing to people who believe that Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses by obeying it perfectly Himself. In Christ, the Word has been planted in us (James 1:21). That’s the Word we hear and obey because we trust our Father. That Word is the perfect law, the law of the love of Christ, which brings freedom. Forgiveness, mercy and grace. So if that law is planted in our hearts wouldn’t it be shown in how we treat others not with name calling, accusations, put downs, anger, belittlement but with love shown by mercy, kindness, patience, love, gentleness.

  81. poohpity says:

    Paul after 30 years of walking with the Lord and from prison writes:

    I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. I want to suffer with him, sharing in his death, so that one way or another I will experience the resurrection from the dead!

    I don’t mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me. No, dear brothers and sisters, I have not achieved it, but I focus on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead, I press on to reach the end of the race and receive the heavenly prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us.”

  82. SFDBWV says:

    Viv it is encouraging to read of your grasp of this subject so well, you do your dad proud.

    I have a land based telephone and my telephone number I have had for some 48 years, so I get plenty of junk phone calls, especially during the political season.

    A few weeks ago I was amused to learn something. I answered the phone and it was a political opinion pollster who said he only had a few questions it would only take a few minutes so I said yes I would answer his questions.

    He ask me if I am a registered voter, I said yes, he ask me if I intended to vote in the upcoming elections in November, I said yes, he ask me if I were a Democrat or Republican, I said Republican, he ask me my age and I said 71 (65 or older).

    He thanked me for my answers and said goodbye.

    I laughed out loud, because I have reached that age in life where my political opinion no longer matters in a world of 21 to 64 year olds.

    I believe also that my age groups spiritual or religious beliefs are irrelevant to that younger generations as well. They have observed what they see as failures and hypocrisy abounding in churches across the board.

    They ask questions and get “church” answers that don’t satisfy or answer their immediate need.

    Church leaders are trying to fill their pews as well as promote the faith onto the upcoming generations and looking for ways that speak to them.

    The old ways seem to be losing ground. So new approaches are being “experimented” with.

    Sadly church leaders have forgotten that it is Jesus the Christ who is the head of the Church and that it is He who draws people in to the family, not a new way of marketing Christianity.

    Even sadder is for me, the realization that as the end of the age draws nearer many will fall away and the power of the anti-christ will grow.

    It is my opinion we are witnessing the dawn of that time, and I can draw on that, by prophesy given in both the OT and the NT.

    It is called the great and terrible day of the Lord for a reason. So I pray for the peace of Jerusalem and the will of God to be done, on earth as is in heaven every day.

    God’s blessing on all here.

    Steve

  83. street says:

    Unhitched and Irresistible
    God help me.
    even heathens obey the law, will they not be considered circumcised? jews who are circumcised and do not keep the law will they not be considered uncircumcised?

    did not paul love the law of God and expect the children of God to keep it? you can only keep the law in Christ, if then you who break the law, are you in Christ? not possible. what of the Spirit of Christ? the One given to the saints? who is He? and where is He? have i been abandoned? could it be i turned my back on God again with my unrest and rebellion? have i stumbled again with no remedy? oh well that’s the way it is lets move on. you will not move on one single step without the Lord.

    paul struggled for the day when Christ would be formed in the members of the church. yet we find he never achieved this perfection or arrival in himself. living by Faith till His Savior would come for him, till then the struggle, Israel, continues. thinking of the struggle and the ground rules. rules or love. repentance and forgiveness or sin and death. how can you repent if you do not even know what has been transgressed?

    the law is for transgressors, being given righteousness in Christ is one thing abiding is quite another. a license to sin i think not.

    in all this legal treatise i ask you where does Matthew 5 beatitudes fit in? where is the humility of moses, “who am i…?” or pauls, “who are you Lord?” when they met the Lord they had nothing, but God.

  84. street says:

    Even sadder is for me, the realization that as the end of the age draws nearer many will fall away and the power of the anti-christ will grow.

    we do know the end is coming. prophecy. yet each generation needs to pass the baton to the next and “labor” pauls word, till it is accomplished. even ninivah got another hundred years. i do think about the ones who will perish or not make it. it is a very difficult place to be i think because it leads to not trusting God or taking our eyes off of HIM. with nothing in my hand i come…..to my hope and stay.

    Jesus promised trouble and tribulation in this world …..He was not lying. stay close, bind yourself to Him in Love because He first loved us. the word bind came from the Isaiah 56:6 my heart and flesh fail, not so my Lord.

  85. poohpity says:

    DID YOU KNOW?

    “All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ. Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure. So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son. He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins. He has showered his kindness on us, along with all wisdom and understanding. God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure. And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth. Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.”

  86. poohpity says:

    If the word of God is not that irresistible to us and means nothing to our everyday life then the next generation will think the same, well those who we are an example to anyway and they will be able to see by our own actions what we think about it. Joyfully there are still those that the Lord has blessed with a close relationship with Him and are examples to those who come after us. Those who will bring the Good News to those hearts that God has prepared in advance to receive and accept Him.

  87. street says:

    then you will find your joy in the Lord,
    and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
    and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”
    For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

  88. poohpity says:

    Paul said: ” Ever since I first heard of your strong faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for God’s people everywhere, I have not stopped thanking God for you. I pray for you constantly, asking God, the glorious Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, to give you spiritual wisdom and insight so that you might grow in your knowledge of God. I pray that your hearts will be flooded with light so that you can understand the confident hope he has given to those he called—his holy people who are his rich and glorious inheritance. I also pray that you will understand the incredible greatness of God’s power for us who believe him. This is the same mighty power that raised Christ from the dead and seated him in the place of honor at God’s right hand in the heavenly realms.”

  89. Beloved says:

    Oooh street, you’ve convinced me to stop trying to do what only God can in His perfect timing with my little theological banter meanderings here. Who am I, after all? Nothing. Dust. A flower that blooms and dies. Forgotten eventually on earth. Looking forward to my heavenly home with all the saints! Yee haw!

  90. street says:

    the truth is not dependent on us we are dependent on it. each individual will be confronted with truth and make a choice, life or death. the ones who try to save their lives will lose their life….

    Joyfully there are still those that the Lord has blessed with a close relationship with Him and are examples to those who come after us. i don’t understand what you are saying here? sounds like putting the cart before the horse.

  91. street says:

    beloved this is no time to take off the armor of God. the adversary is indeed formidable. some times waiting is a good coarse of action. standing in the gap…. or watching intently. not by power or might but by My Spirit says the Lord. the remodeling/molding continues ….

    sometimes i struggle with the shrewdness of a snake ….
    thinking humility and obedience might be the coarse of action. thinking God catches the shrewd in their shrewdness. God let me rest on the Rock of Salvation. teach me to build with gold silver and precious stones.

  92. Beloved says:

    Street i know how formidable the enemy is first hand. For a year I took care of a guy paralyzed from the neck down, even vocal cords paralyzed. He was constantly, daily trying to have sex with me. He also watched porn daily. I could leave his room for a few minutes when he did this. But as much as he tried to seduce I had my bible open constantly and read to him daily and talked about Jesus to him. I learned so many ways to preach the gospel but nothing got through. So one day, recognizing the power the enemy had over him I brought oil I blessed in Jesus name and began discretely making crosses on the doors, windows, his bed and other things. One day when I had him up in his wheelchair I placed the oil on it and good thing the weather was nice because he suddenly started mouthing get me out of here, get me out of here, frantically. It took so much for him to see the enemy’s lies and hold on him. But I knew without Christ in him he would go back to his porn. The battle was so hard. I had to quit finally. Only God can do what only God can do. Thanks street for the encouragement. Blessings, Joyce

  93. street says:

    He says the bible would not even be as we know it today without the resurrection. He explains how the bible came about in it’s present from today from the different experiences each person had with God back them. Before commenting on what he did not say why not hear what he did say before you talk about something you know nothing about, isn’t that how rumors, assuming and jumping to conclusions come from to start with?

    after stanley who are we going to run to next?????

    14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

  94. poohpity says:

    Just as Stanley runs straight to god through His word hopefully we will also point people as he does to that word as well.

    street, to your comment @11:50 and not understanding I would not expect you to. The cart is not before the horse for those who come to believe in the identity of Jesus then the resurrection first which are those who have a growing relationship with Christ then the rest follows. You are not even saved unless you believe those things first. Romans 10:9-10 NLT; If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved.

  95. poohpity says:

    Beloved, if he was paralyzed from the neck down and could not even talk how do you know he wanted to have sex with you, if he could not say anything or nothing worked from the neck down? Just curious?

  96. poohpity says:

    Or how could he even put porn on the TV or how ever he watched it if he was paralyzed without outside help.

  97. street says:

    It begins with the accounts of a few men who sat down to record the death and resurrection of Jesus. It begins with the words of his followers who were compelled to document the events that had changed everything for them—because they knew it could change everything for us.” Andy Stanley

    9
    “Remember the former things long past,
    For I am God, and there is no other;
    I am God, and there is no one like Me,
    10
    Declaring the end from the beginning,
    And from ancient times things which have not been done,
    Saying, ‘My purpose will be established,
    And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’;
    11
    Calling a bird of prey from the east,
    The man of [a]My purpose from a far country.
    Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass.
    I have planned it, surely I will do it.

  98. street says:

    15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

    The Son of God, who has [g]eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this:

    19 ‘I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and [h]perseverance, and that your [i]deeds of late are greater than [j]at first. 20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her [k]on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of [l]her deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with [m]pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the [n]minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. 24 But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call them—I place no other burden on you. 25 Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come. 26 He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the [o]nations; 27 and he shall [p]rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

  99. Beloved says:

    Because Satan will certainly give us no peace if we are at peace with God.
    Desiring God.org

    I’ve been reading more about Andy’s book. I’ve decided not to add to the fuel with my pitiful opinion. As someone said, in this age of internet everyone has an opinion! Truth will remain as learners will always learn. That’s my opinion.

  100. Beloved says:

    The man I cared for had large muscle paralysis, I could read his lips and I controlled the remote but legally could not control what he watched, in case anyone else wondered.

  101. Beloved says:

    Armor: Ephesians 6:15. And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

    I thought of Forevers’ remarks about going to God with anxieties, peace is found there if Jesus is our peace. Yet we stand firm in the peace and Truth we’ve been given. My thought as I look down at my feet is I just bow my head to see them. Humility. Thanks friends.

  102. Beloved says:

    Must bow.

  103. jeff1 says:

    Beloved says:
    October 19, 2018 at 9:36 am

    Viv last night I was thinking about 1 John 1:9(NIV)Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness

    Yes, Beloved, that is what I am talking about that God sees more than I realise, the struggles I have with wanting to be a better person and the temptations that snarl me.

    When I think I cannot go on how He strengthens me and reassures me of His presence.

    SFDBWV says:
    October 19, 2018 at 10:48 am

    Viv it is encouraging to read of your grasp of this subject so well, you do your dad proud.

    He was a very good example for me, Steve, though I think back to when I was young, and realise I was not so unlike the young people we talk of today, because, I did not listen to him when I should have and why I believe that we have our own level of growth. God does not rush the slower among us which is why I do not give up hope for anyone as God’s ways are very different to our ways.

    He turns around that which I see as unworthy and unfruitful and makes a ‘silk purse’ out of a ‘sow’s ear’ so to speak.

    I think we only get glimpses of God and have very little understanding of His majesty and so we will not be disappointed which is why He tells us not to make this world our home.

    God will accomplish His will in His time and we should rest in that peace as it seems to me that life gets more complicated as I get older or else I am just getting tired of this world.

    Family and friends are such a blessing as we get older and so God is good whatever our circumstances.

    1 O GOD! our help in ages past,
    Our hope for years to come,
    Our shelter from the stormy blast,
    And our eternal home:

    2 Under the shadow of thy throne,
    Still may we dwell secure;
    Sufficient is thine arm alone,
    And our defence is sure.

    3 Before the hills in order stood,
    Or earth received her frame,
    From everlasting thou art God,
    To endless years the same.

    4 A thousand ages in thy sight
    Are like an evening gone,
    Short as the watch that ends the night
    Before the rising sun.

    5 The busy tribes of flesh and blood,
    With all their cares and fears,
    Are carried downward by the flood,
    And lost in following years.

    6 Time, like an ever-rolling stream,
    Bears all its sons away;
    They fly forgotten, as a dream
    Dies at the opening day.

    7 O God! our help in ages past,
    Our hope for years to come,
    Be thou our guard while life shall last,
    And our perpetual home.

  104. Beloved says:

    16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

    17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”—

    18 and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

    19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.

    20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

    21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

  105. phpatato says:

    Beloved, Forever, Steve I am feeling the love. I have heeded wise counsel and dug into Psalms 1 and 37. Thanks to you all!! xo

    Steve, your comment @ 10:48 nailed it!!! My thoughts in your words. You touched on everything I would have commented on!!

    And because I have already started a comment, I will continue with on with an unqualified stab in the dark jumping to conclusions full of assumptions thought of mine…….

    “Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own. The term is considered derogatory. It is one of several informal examples of usage of the word snowflake to refer to people.” Wikipedia

    Fluff. Today’s world thrives on fluff. If it isn’t nice soft and fluffy, they don’t want to hear it.

    Are we doing a disservice to these young people if we sugar coat the truth?

    Let’s erase history completely for these kids. We can’t have them traumatized can we? Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Remembrance Day…gone. Holocaust…didn’t happen. Oh no no Jesus wasn’t hung with spikes in His hands and feet. Get that nasty violent thought out of your head. You’re going to have nightmares tonight now. No that part where John was beheaded, where Judas hung himself…such unpleasant things. Shoo those thoughts away. We have to talk about the nice pleasant things. Fluff. After all PAUL says in the New Testament Bible, you know that book that is now the only book in our pews that we refer to every now and then because we prefer to quote the human beings that uttered the words over reading them in some book, that Paul said to a bunch of people called Philippians. What? Oh no never mind asking why they called themselves Philippians because that’s history and we don’t dwell on history. Where was I. Oh yes, that Paul said, “Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable–if anything is excellent or praiseworthy–think about such things.” We are to concentrate on those things now because history is, well, gone. History is history because we don’t talk about things that happened. It’s all just too violent, Dear. We are to look ahead from now on. So, tomorrow when you wake up, today didn’t happen, okay? Erase it from your mind because we don’t want you too traumatized. That would be terrible.

    Is this what the future churches will look like???? Far-fetched? Don’t laugh. There were many 0ff-the-wall thoughts/things that are now reality.

    And the above is an example of how man, in his foolishness, is convinced that if it weren’t for him and his plans, the world will stop dead. Well in my world, GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL. His Holy Bible – in its entirety – Old and New – He breathed into existence.

    Who are we to say part of it is null and void because it doesn’t speak to the younger generation. He asks that we simply plant a seed. His Holy Spirit will do the watering, the nurturing and the pruning.

    And The Holy Bible did say that there will be false prophets and teachers who will come and will attempt to deceive even God’s elect in the last days. We are living in the last days.

    But having said all that, time will tell whether this approach by Andy Stanley is in fact God ordained or just another fluff screen of diversion. God will either bless Andy for doing His will OR….

    I’ll be cautiously standing by but praying

    And as a side note, I am feeling compelled to say this. It ties into how flippant people are today to casually throw around God’s Word as if parts of it aren’t important.

    Warning: this is just my humble opinion on the Majesty of God……What does the cover say on God’s Word? Answer: The Holy Bible, not the bible. It is Holy as is the Holy Spirit. It isn’t the bible or is it the holy spirit, or god or jesus christ or king of kings or messiah, or alpha and omega. He is worthy of CAPITALS as is HIS WORD. Why? Because He is The Great I AM. There is nothing about Him that is in small letters.

    The above is another reason why I don’t comment. I don’t do well speaking in fluff. Now you know.

  106. poohpity says:

    Andy Stanley never said anything about not believing the whole bible, what he talks about is those people who speak about it without ever having read it. Just similar to people commenting on what Andy teaches without ever having listen to what he teaches. That is same principle applies.

    He states that the compilation of the bible only came into being after the Resurrection and with the help and direction of the Holy Spirit for those who were compelled to do so. We get to look at the finished product today after many linguists, theologians and scholars did all the work because more than anything they wanted people to know the amazing factual life they experienced first hand, so they did as the Lord directed them to share the Gospel and make disciples in all nations of the world.

    They fully believed as Paul said and did in Romans 10:14-15 NLT; 14 But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? 15 And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!”

  107. poohpity says:

    Andy Stanley believes the more someone knows about the bible and how it came to be, it may prompt people to read it more rather than it just being an after thought even in the life of self proclaimed believers or a shelf ornament that gathers dust. Just as his father, Charles Stanley, promotes bible reading so does his son.

  108. phpatato says:

    I’m sorry pooh. I don’t know of the bible you are referring to. Who wrote it? Scriptures I know. But bible. mmmmnope. Don’t know that book.

    And that is why I said my comment was unqualified stab in the dark jumping to conclusions full of assumptions. I KNEW you were going to jump all over that. And yes I’m chuckling.

    FYI I am just going on what Mart said in his submission:

    “……Andy is getting pushback for suggesting that we need to “unhitch” ourselves from the expired covenant of Sinai”.

    Ya, I’m going to pushback on that sentence. We don’t “unhitch” ourselves to anything in the Bible. Those are God’s words. We either believe all of it or none of it. It’s like being pregnant. You either are or aren’t. No pick and chose option. No hitching ourselves to this chapter but unhitching ourselves to that chapter, or book or verse. It’s all or nothing.

    “…..counter winds of information that are having such an impact on our young people. It’s evident that he’s deeply concerned about the influence of a group of professors and authors who are leveraging a global Internet to call attention to the *****violence of the God and people of the Old Testament*****.”

    Hence the definition of Snowflake and the bulk of my comment on tying Snowflake into violence and history in God’s Word.

    Do you read to understand or do you read just to pounce and comment???? Don’t answer that. I know how you read.

  109. SFDBWV says:

    CT Direct (Christianity Today) has Andy Stanley’s own commentary on his controversial thoughts and books. I received it this morning in my email.

    Reading it hasn’t changed my mind about the subject. I get the feeling Andy knows he is stepping on toes, but some of what he says opens up the same old argument about much of what Paul says being “out of date”.

    It is another one of those situations where people pick and choose what they like to read from Scripture and what they don’t.

    To summarize Andy’s thoughts I would have to say that He believes the OT has no place in Christianity except for the bits and pieces relevant to what he believes to promote the NT.

    For him to say that the ceremonial practices has no reason to continue, gives rise from me to once again remind us all that it is given in the OT the nations that don’t observe one specific feast is punished with no rain during the 1000 year reign of Christ on His throne in Jerusalem.

    As well as to push back by saying he is ignoring almost all of the language used in Revelation. As the Book of Revelation is heavy with OT information, dialog and description.

    I guess my reaction to Andy Stanley’s comments and books of relevance is that I give it “Two Thumbs Down.”

    Steve

  110. bubbles says:

    In 2010 I visited the Library of Congress. At that time a Gutenburg Bible (autocorrect is acting up) was displayed in the lobby. Standing there looking at this precious and old Bible gave me chills. Think of all those who read and touched that Bible! Think of all those who may be in Heaven now due to this Bible. We are blessed to have a copy inner homes. God is so good. I cannot understand why He allowed me to be born in a time and place where there is freedom and peace. This is redundant; it’s something that I will never be able to finish thanking God. All Bibles are precious.

  111. poohpity says:

    Well Pat doing the same I am accused of like baiting someone just proves my point all along that usually what someone accuses another of is the same thing they are guilty of themselves.

    Unhitching from the Old covenant that was given at Mt Sinai is exactly what the NT was all about but you knew that, right and you are just baiting me again. That is something to really bring some humor to this conversation, is it really humor or just plain ol’ ignorance?

  112. poohpity says:

    Now see if one actually read the Gospels and all the letters that make up the NT then they could plainly see and understand what unhitching one’s self from the law of Moses actually is referring to. The old covenant given from Mt Sinai actually did have a purpose but only until Jesus came, but you knew that, right?

  113. poohpity says:

    Mart, I was thinking it does not make any difference how anyone approaches trying to stimulate anyone to thinking that the bible is “Irresistible” it seems it actually all comes down to a desire that God alone puts into the heart of the believer. There are 19% of professing Christians that that is a reality of their walk with the Lord, the time that many call their quite time to learn and grow closer to God through His word. They also find it so interesting to know the background of those who wrote it and what was going on with them while they did write it but then there are those who could care less and probably never will desire to get to know God better or hear about the many author’s personal relationships with God or in others words their testimonies or first hand witnesses in their journeys of faith.

  114. poohpity says:

    The work of the real enemy of God has won in that area as well as many other areas for those professing to be Christian’s so it really isn’t their fault at all they are just listening to the wrong spirit, the spirit that wants to keep them in the dark about the One they say they worship or follow.

  115. poohpity says:

    Not being familiar with what God has actually said, opens the doors for anyone to come in a teach something different and they would/will never be able to identify false teaching.

    Similar to what is happening hear in regards to Andy Stanley rather than listening to what he actually is teaching people would rather guess and speculate. But that is something that is very common in our world today especially in the political arena, people do not take the time to check out what people say but believe them anyway because of the hate in their hearts and if they do not present facts no one really knows for sure. So in lieu of having an informed discussion about any issues a mob is created to impose violence, name calling, demonetization and division and half the time no one even knows what they are being violent or protesting about. But that also is not their fault, just the normal activities of the flesh and ignorance or is it their fault by blaming someone else because that is always easier.

  116. poohpity says:

    Paul said because he experienced. So he could write things like; “For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.” It pleases God for us to give time and our lives into seeking Him and getting to know Him better and better until that day when we see Jesus face to face. That is also what Andy Stanley teaches, how odd it is that all those who really love the Lord are unified in the same message.

  117. street says:

    Unhitched and Irresistible

    can denying oneself and taking up your cross daily be a work of the flesh? we are told that apart from Christ we could do nothing. so then faith and works are a work of Christ, not of our will strength temperament or wisdom, a work of the Spirit by Faith. thinking of what held Jesus to the cross. the joy set before Him. the last full measure of His love. you shall love the Lord Your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.

    Jesus is our Righteousness by Faith. a Righteousness i could not attain. the cords of love from Christ are unbreakable and sure. what would it be like to take hold of theses cords?

    Genesis 43:9
    I myself will guarantee his safety; you can hold me personally responsible for him. If I do not bring him back to you and set him here before you, I will bear the blame before you all my life.

    When Joseph’s brothers saw that their father was dead, they said, “What if Joseph holds a grudge against us and pays us back for all the wrongs we did to him?”

    Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father.

    By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

    Romans 7

    Philippians 3:12
    Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

    2 Thessalonians 2:6
    And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.

  118. poohpity says:

    Someone said earlier that it was John who was beheaded but it was Paul and James. Peter was crucified upside down, another was crucified the regular way, some where skinned alive and some where pierced by four arrows. John died from old age. All this because they preached the Gospel, they died horrible deaths for what/who they believed in and yet many do not want to read what they died for, go figure. They did not die for preaching the law of Moses, they died for preaching the gospel they had unhitched themselves from the Jewish laws to follow a new way, a new life and the new covenant.

  119. Beloved says:

    Yes, John the Baptist was beheaded.

  120. poohpity says:

    Paul said, ” I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law. 6 I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault. 7 I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done. 8 Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ 9 and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith. 10 I want to know Christ and experience the mighty power that raised him from the dead. I want to suffer with him, sharing in his death, 11 so that one way or another I will experience the resurrection from the dead! 12 I don’t mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me.”

    See he unhitched himself from the law.

  121. Beloved says:

    16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish them in every good ‘work’ and ‘word’.

    Good works are easy to find and do, but good words are harder to find and speak. Romans 5:3-5
    3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

  122. Beloved says:

    Anti-nomia means anti-law

    Seems like a waste of time to continue to try to prove that the Law is bad. Here anyway.

  123. poohpity says:

    Not John the baptist, the Apostle is who I was speaking of but that may have been who the person earlier was speaking of, thank you.

  124. poohpity says:

    I did not realize anyone was saying that the law was bad but just like the beheaded thing it could be a failure in communication.

  125. poohpity says:

    As I quoted from God’s word before, the law served a purpose and that purpose who finished and fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

  126. Beloved says:

    “Ed:How can the church and Christians become irresistible?

    Andy: Love better. Serve better. Accept better. We must police ourselves and quit policing those outside the church. Paul was so clear on this: “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?” (1 Cor. 5:12).

    Jesus told us: “By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another” (John 13:35). But he defined the love he was talking about: “As I have loved you, so you must love one another” (John 13:34).

    This isn’t the Golden Rule. It’s better. I am to do for others what God in Christ has done for me. Paul reiterates this throughout his letters. For example, he says, “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you” (Eph. 4:32).

    The question we should ask every day in every situation is: “What does love require of me? In light of what God has done for me, what should I do for others?”

    And this isn’t soft. This is gritty. Hours after he gave his new, love-like-me command, Jesus put on a demonstration of love that took everyone’s breath away . . . including his own.

    This approach is far less complicated than what many of us grew up with, but, in the end, it is far more demanding”.
    From CT Oct.17,2018

  127. Beloved says:

    If one who claims to be a believer does not submit to- (acknowledge humbly, repent)- correction (judgeing) by other believers then what am I to think of them? I guess I would wonder if that person is a believer in Christ. Paul is very clear on this.

  128. Beloved says:

    I should say follower, even the demons believe in Christ.

  129. Beloved says:

    street says:
    October 20, 2018 at 10:04 am
    Unhitched and Irresistible

    can denying oneself and taking up your cross daily be a work of the flesh?

    I guess the ascetics thought so. My friend is fighting the greatest battle of her life. She’s very stoic and all her life has picked herself up, brushed herself off and got going. She was shot in the face by her husband who then killed himself, enabled her son almost to his death trying to fix his alcoholism, had 5 joint replacements and now cancer. She won’t survive this without Gods intervention, and she’s still trying to go it on her own. Even admitting to being disobedient to God. Folly comes to mind, the works of the flesh are all folly unless Christ is in us motivating and guiding us.

    This is my take on it.

  130. Beloved says:

    But some might say, don’t judge her, love her. I would say, love without Truth is folly. And a grace disservice to God and her.

  131. Beloved says:

    grave not grace

  132. poohpity says:

    I thought you said she is not a Christ follower, so doesn’t what Paul said apply to her,”Not to judge those outside the church”?

    Then no one can bear truth without grace. Tim Keller says, “‘Truth’ without grace is not really truth, and ‘grace’ without truth is not really grace.” Chris Hodges says, “Truth without grace is mean; grace without truth is meaningless.”

  133. Beloved says:

    No she claims to be a Christian.

  134. Beloved says:

    She knows scripture better than you do!

    12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

  135. Beloved says:

    I don’t disagree with Keller and Hodges. That’s not what I’m talking about, she knows all about grace, as do I. I’m talking about her disobeying what she said God told her to do. And other things through the years where she claims she’s not able to do what’s right because her ways are too ingrained in her. God can change us and does, but if we are foolishly hanging on to our ways of doing things the road narrows quickly, we are off on another path.

  136. Beloved says:

    Romans 6:1-5

    Believers Are Dead to Sin, Alive to God
    1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.

    So what better mechanism than what God has put in place within the Body for believers to “judge” on another in order to bring about change. ‘Judge’ here isn’t condemnation but about speaking Truth, in love.

  137. Beloved says:

    Thinking of Elihu. Yes he spoke out of line, so to speak being the youngest and addressing Job his elder by his name, yet God never said he sinned, only Jobs 3 friends. Is this what Stanley is talking about when he says love is gritty?

  138. poohpity says:

    I don’t know.

  139. foreverblessed says:

    A lot of love is in the Bible:
    ( From God calling, October 21)

    A Love Feast

    Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice,
    and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him,
    and he with me. — Revelation 3:20.

    See, My children, the knocking rests upon no merit of yours — though it is in response to the longing of your heart for Me.

    Keep, keep that listening ear. “If any man will hear My Voice.” Again no merit of yours. Only the ear bent to catch My tones, and to hear the sound of My gentle knocking.

    Then listen: “If any man hear My Voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.”

    What a feast! You think it would have been Joy to have been present at the Marriage Feast of Cana of Galilee, or to have been one of My disciples in the Upper Room, seated with Me at the Last Supper or one of the two at Emmaus, or one of the few for whom I prepared that Lakeside feast!

    But oh! at each of these feasts, God-provided and God-championed as they were, you could not have known the rapture you may know as you hear the knocking and the Voice, and, opening, bid Me welcome to My Feast.

    A Feast of tenderest companionship, of Divine Sustenance, truly a Love Feast.

    Incline your ear, and come unto me; hear, and your soul shall live. Isaiah 55:3

  140. poohpity says:

    “It’s evident that he’s(Andy) deeply concerned about the influence of a group of professors and authors who are leveraging a global Internet to call attention to the violence of the God and people of the Old Testament.” Those professors and authors are certainly not those who have a relationship with God that seems to be the very reason why they would want people to look at the violence of God and the people of the OT. Many professors and authors today try as they may, want to make the words of the bible irrelevant for today. But we see how taking prayer and bible reading out of our homes and schools have effected our society, it is very obvious. God to them is totally not needed and it should concern everyone.

    People no longer know their gender, or right from wrong or what reality is and that should be very important to ALL but it is not. Hate and violence is spreading like wild fire although it has been around since the first family, so is it because people find the bible irrelevant or “Irresistible”? How do people even know what real love is without it?

  141. poohpity says:

    Andy “talks about how much toxic information has been promoted in the name of the Bible” false teaching and twisting of the truth found by people throwing out there, their understanding. Cults formed. People wanting people to follow them rather than following God, wanting the praise of man rather than desiring the praise of God. Getting rich from sharing the Gospel, well their Gospel anyway.

  142. poohpity says:

    Paul said, I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength to do his work. He considered me trustworthy and appointed me to serve him, even though I used to blaspheme the name of Christ. In my insolence, I persecuted his people. But God had mercy on me because I did it in ignorance and unbelief. Oh, how generous and gracious our Lord was! He filled me with the faith and love that come from Christ Jesus.

    This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all. But God had mercy on me so that Christ Jesus could use me as a prime example of his great patience with even the worst sinners. Then others will realize that they, too, can believe in him and receive eternal life. All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He is the eternal King, the unseen one who never dies; he alone is God. Amen.”

  143. poohpity says:

    In his first letter to Timothy, Paul describes being unhitched from the law and being hitched to Jesus Christ. He explains that the law is for sinners so that they recognize their need for a Savior but since Timothy has believed the Good News about Jesus that law is no longer necessary. Just as Jesus taught in the Be-attitudes if one thinks they are without sin Jesus takes them a little further into even motives, so there is no denying the need of the Cross and resurrection, that final sacrifice. Paul explains in his testimony what being hitched to law did in his life to keep him enslaved compared to what his freedom in Christ is like.

  144. street says:

    6 Praise be to the Lord,
    who has not let us be torn by their teeth.
    7 We have escaped like a bird
    from the fowler’s snare;
    the snare has been broken,
    and we have escaped.
    8 Our help is in the name of the Lord,
    the Maker of heaven and earth.

  145. Beloved says:

    Bless the LORD, oh my soul, and forget not all His benefits, bless the LORD.

  146. SFDBWV says:

    “Expired covenant at Sinai.”

    I have already stated that in my opinion there is no such thing as an expiration date on God’s contracts, but there has been a concept and idea floated for years that the “Church” replaced Israel and that the Church is now the recipient of the “agreement”.

    Personally I disagree stoically that the Church replaced Israel and feel that those who adopt this concept are those most likely to be anti-Semitic.

    It is ridiculous to say to believers or non-believers alike that the B-I-B-L-E in its entirety isn’t necessary to the complete believer.

    And thus is the problem; incomplete or ill- prepared believers go off on their own “crusades” believing they have received all of the “knowledge” they need in order to be evangelizers. When in fact it is well understood that a little knowledge is far more dangerous that none at all.

    If you or I are going to do any work for God at all, we need His anointing before we can accomplish anything at all and it will be done in all its amazements.

    You cannot fail in you task once God has equipped you for it and sent you to it.

    The problem with thinking that the covenant at Sinai expired is the Book of Revelation.

    Revelation knowledge is from God and for God’s purposes and always lifts up the living “Word of God”.

    Jesus of Nazareth is the Living Word of God and can be found from Genesis to Revelation. If you look you will find if you ask He will open it to you.

    I know these things because of the Bible, 66 Books written by 44 authors under the anointing of God and it will forever be for me the collection of Books that I quote from when referring to what is written by the inspiration of God.

    “Yes Jesus loves me, because the Bible tells me so.”

    Remember that old song?

    Steve

  147. poohpity says:

    Who said the bible isn’t necessary to the believer? I have not heard of many non-believers who even care to read the bible at all when hardly many believers themselves make it a daily practice or even have the desire to.

    If a believer has read any other part of the bible between Genesis and Revelation other than just those 2 books they will find many writings regarding the difference in the old and new covenant. As Paul taught in Gal 5: “For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.” John 1:17; Luke 22:20; Jeremiah 31:31-32 NLT; Hebrews 8:6,7,8,13; Romans 7:6

  148. poohpity says:

    Does the B-I-B-L-E have a hold on you? Is it something you can not live without or is it an after thought or a means just to look things up rather than a daily desire to spend time with God to use to grow your relationship with Him? Long ago people used the bible everyday as they sat and read it together in their homes, it was read in schools but it no longer has a hold on people.

  149. jeff1 says:

    SFDBWV says:
    October 21, 2018 at 9:44 am

    I have already stated that in my opinion there is no such thing as an expiration date on God’s contracts, but there has been a concept and idea floated for years that the “Church” replaced Israel and that the Church is now the recipient of the “agreement”

    I agree, Steve, I cannot interfere in God’s divine providence as it is His will I must do.

    Hymn from our Harvest Thanksgiving Service.

    The harvest is here:
    Earth’s bounty we bring!
    And as we draw near,
    God’s mercies we sing.
    From greenhouse and garden,
    Allotment and store:
    These love gifts we offer
    And praises out-pour.

    A harvest we bear
    Our talents and time,
    A calling to share:
    Such is God’s design.
    As people of Jesus
    We honour His name;
    Through love for our neighbour
    His love we proclaim.

    God’s harvest shall come,
    When all is fulfilled:
    Death’s forces succumb,
    And violence be stilled,
    Then all that has breath in
    Creation restored
    Shall bow down in worship:
    One Harvest, one Lord!

  150. SFDBWV says:

    What books or what authors have any of you read that you would considered to be revelation knowledge inspired from God with the intended use to enlighten the world and awaken the message of salvation, except for the Bible?

    Do any of you think Andy Stanley speaks for God concerning this issue?

    32 degrees with only about an inch of snow this morning.

    Steve

  151. street says:

    the whole earth is filled with His Glory!!!

    all times all places all circumstance!!!

    I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

    Christ magnified in all things.

  152. street says:

    And, Lord, haste the day when my faith shall be sight,
    The clouds be rolled back as a scroll;
    The trump shall resound, and the Lord shall descend,
    even so, it is well with my soul.

    thinking of the turning the pages of the scroll, some day soon, no longer print, but the face of God. what Joy will fill my heart. incorruptible and unending!!!

  153. Beloved says:

    Unhinged

    Could our brokenness be the way to being re-hinged with Christ? Does shame keep us from true fellowship, forgetting who took our shame and redeemed it? I am not ashamed, Paul said. Neither am I. The working hinge swings in and out as we receive Power to go forth in Jesus’ name. Bless the LORD, oh my soul. I will bless the LORD, bless His Holy name.

  154. Beloved says:

    It is well, with my soul!!!

  155. street says:

    thinking about the times i have been rebuked by donkeys. His discipline is much better.
    because of His Great love in which He loves us.
    to be conformed to His Image.

    I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    our life is in Christ or we perish.
    our hope, in His eternal faithfulness and love with which He loved us. to Him be honor power and glory forever.

  156. Beloved says:

    Amen!

  157. jeff1 says:

    I think we focus on ‘Jesus’ who unites us otherwise we get distracted from what is the fundamental core of our faith.

    The Bible is for our encouragement, reproach and comfort but it is Jesus who fulfils God’s commands.

    Just like the characters in the Bible we have our strengths and weaknesses, and so, without Him we can do nothing, so, yes, Beloved it is in our brokenness we are re-hinged with Christ as it is His power and strength that sustains us for His purpose.

    Where No One Stands Alone

    Once I stood in the night
    With my head bowed low
    In the darkness as black as could be
    And my heart felt alone and I cried
    Oh Lord, don’t hide your face from me

    Like a king I may live in a palace so tall
    With great riches to call my own
    But I don’t know a thing
    In this whole wide world
    That’s worse than being alone

    Hold my hand all the way
    Every hour, every day
    Come here to the great unknown

    Take my hand, let me stand
    Where no one stands alone

    Take my hand, let me stand
    Where no one stands alone

  158. street says:

    Once I stood in the night
    With my head bowed low
    In the darkness as black as could be
    And my heart felt alone and I cried
    Oh Lord, don’t hide your face from me

    once i stood in the darkness
    with my head exalted
    in emptiness as black as could be
    my heart so angry, crying out
    while i was His enemy
    with fist clench and weapon raised.
    My Lord dying for me
    what love is this?
    i did not know thy love till thou
    returneth from the grave.

  159. foreverblessed says:

    That is a good song, because of the resurrection, we know of God’s love. It is not only His death, but even more His resurrection.

    I know of a lot of people who have been raised a christian, but who have trouble with the Cross. They say:
    “Why does God require the death of His Son to save me?
    I do not like a God who wants to see blood in order to make me free”

    So with Bible or without Bible, it makes no difference, it is the struggle with the Cross.

    Now is my question to God, is it that You require it, or is it the adversary who requires this?

  160. poohpity says:

    If anyone listen to or read anything Andy Stanley preaches they would know it is straight out of the bible but rather than saying the bible says, he attributes it to the person inspired by God to write the things they wrote that fill the pages of the bible.

    Try reading again what Mart wrote that says exactly that;”I’m fairly certain that when he says that for the last 7 or 8 years he’s been quoting David, Moses, Matthew, and Paul rather than what “the Bible says”, and— and that when he makes the claim that our faith doesn’t rest in the Bible, but in the resurrection of Jesus, he isn’t just trying to be controversial.”

    Our faith comes from God not the bible, the bible is an inanimate object, it has no special powers. The bible is the means to share from those who had past experience in a relationship with the Lord. The bible itself is just ink on pages but the words that are written in it are from those who came before us and give their testimonies thus the Old testament or the New testament.

  161. poohpity says:

    Before we had our 66 books of the bible they had scrolls and parchments that were taught from in the Temple and that is what Jesus taught from separate and distinct manuscripts not bond together YET. The NT letters and Gospels before they were known as the Gospels were the writings of Matthew, Mark ,Luke and John separate not bond together, YET. But it was due to the resurrection and the coming of the Holy Spirit that anyone even thought of binding all those manuscripts together centuries later.

  162. poohpity says:

    If you really think about it all those letters being passed around to the churches they probably started falling apart until someone took careful detail and care to transcribe those letters not word for word but letter by letter to keep it authentic and true to what they said originally. The same way they transcribed the OT.

  163. jeff1 says:

    foreverblessed says:
    October 21, 2018 at 2:22 pm

    I know of a lot of people who have been raised a christian, but who have trouble with the Cross. They say:
    “Why does God require the death of His Son to save me?
    I do not like a God who wants to see blood in order to make me free

    We cannot cherry pick what suits us and God points us to Jesus for our Salvation and Redemption and that is the truth of the Gospel and none of us can refute that and call ourselves a follower of Jesus.

    It is the distractions of this world that are the greatest struggle to my way of thinking but we all differ in our weaknesses and thankfully have God to lean on when we do.

  164. Beloved says:

    Forever you might look at Hebrews 9. But why blood, I used to wonder this myself. What comes to mind is that life is in blood. Remember Abel’s blood crying out from the ground?

    Jesus blood shed once for all, but He lives! Who can shed their own blood, die, and live? Not us, we can’t live without a transfusion maybe but still we die eventually.

    And we will live again if we have died in Christ! Paul said “I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me.” What a sacrifice and oh what a Savior! Bless His Holy name, Jesus.

  165. Beloved says:

    Galatians 2:20

  166. Beloved says:

    Genesis 4:10

    Hebrews 12:24

  167. Beloved says:

    Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

  168. jeff1 says:

    Are You Washed in the Blood

    Have you been to Jesus for the cleansing power?
    Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?
    Are you fully trusting in His grace this hour?
    Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?

    Chorus:
    Are you washed in the blood,
    In the soul cleansing blood of the Lamb?
    Are your garments spotless?
    Are they white as snow?
    Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?

    2 Are you walking daily by the Savior’s side?
    Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?
    Do you rest each moment in the Crucified?
    Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?

    [Chorus]

    3 When the Bridegroom cometh will your robes be white?
    Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?
    Will your soul be ready for the mansions bright,
    And be washed in the blood of the Lamb?

    [Chorus]

    4 Lay aside the garments that are stained with sin,
    And be washed in the blood of the Lamb;
    There’s a fountain flowing for the soul unclean,
    O be washed in the blood of the Lamb!

    [Chorus]

  169. street says:

    Now is my question to God, is it that You require it, or is it the adversary who requires this?

    if i remember right we all transgressed in adam when he was willing to die to become like God. Romans 5:13-15 have it your way? i think not, God’s way is best, it can not be undone what He foreordains.

    Matthew 26:28
    for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

    thinking God takes the lead in fixing things for His Glory. like when job had questions for God, God had questions for job. God basically said, i will answer your question after you answer mine. as we know job remained silent till he repented in sack cloth and ashes.

    38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,

    2
    “Who is this that darkens counsel
    By words without knowledge?
    3
    “Now gird up your loins like a man,
    And I will ask you, and you instruct Me!

    Isaiah 55:8
    “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
    Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.

    33 When they came to the place called [a]The Skull, there they crucified Him and the criminals, one on the right and the other on the left. 34 [b]But Jesus was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves. 35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the [c]Christ of God, His Chosen One.”

  170. jeff1 says:

    Our Harvest Collect and Psalm 65.

    Almighty God our Heavenly Father, we thank you that you have fulfilled to us your promise that while the earth remains, seed time and harvest shall not fail. We bless you for the kindly fruits of the earth, which you have given to our use.
    Teach us good Lord to remember that it is not by bread alone that we must live, and grant us evermore to feed on Him who is the true bread of Heaven, Jesus Christ our Lord, to whom with you and the Holy Ghost be all honour and glory, world without end. Amen.

    In Zion praise awaits you Lord,
    To you our vows are due.
    O you who hear and answer prayer,
    All men will come to you.

    Those who inhabit distant lands
    With awe regard your ways.
    When morning dawns and evening fades,
    You call forth songs of praise.

    You tend the land and water it,
    You make it rich and good.
    As you ordained, your streams are full
    To give the people food.

    You drench the furrows of the land
    You level off the ground.
    You soften it with showers of rain
    And make its crops abound

    You crown the year with fruitfulness
    Your harvests overflow
    The grassland flourishes again;
    The hills with gladness glow.

    The pastures green with flocks are clothed.
    The meadows covering,
    The vales are dressed with crops of corn.
    They shout for joy and sing.

  171. poohpity says:

    Forever, your question I will share what Peter has to say about it. 1 Peter 1:19-21 NLT 19 It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. 20 God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but now in these last days he has been revealed for your sake.

    21 Through Christ you have come to trust in God. And you have placed your faith and hope in God because he raised Christ from the dead and gave him great glory.

    Jesus rebuked Peter by saying Matt 16:23 NLT so stopping Jesus from going to the Cross would have been the work of Satan.

  172. street says:

    life-changing difference between the Old and New Testaments.
    in the Old, looking for the coming Messiah
    in the New looking back at the Messiah

    today looking for His coming or return depending on which flock you are in. soon to be One Flock.

    division removed in Christ, no darkness.

    14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

    19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

  173. foreverblessed says:

    Mart is tsalking about the violence in the bible.
    But what I was thinking is that as I said, many see the Cross as a violent thing.

    For myself, I know all these verses about the Cross, the blood, and the reconcilitation with God, allthough it is still very very hard to understand.

    “the life is in the blood”

    “and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.”

    I was looking into biblegateway to search for the bible verse that says: Jesus had to take part of flesh and blood in order to redeem mankind.
    Then the bibleverse of the day is:
    “A person finds joy in giving an apt reply— and how good is a timely word!”
    Proverbs 15:23

    That sounds like a good promise, that the Holy Spirit will give an answer to those who ask such a question about the Cross.

    But if people in the first place do not see their fallen state, then talking about redemption is useless too!

    WHat I am trying to say, that it is a supernatural thing the opening of a heart to the message of the Cross. It is a wonder of the Holy Spirit. And it requires a person to come to the end of himself:
    either by living like the younger son following his own desires.(from the parabel of the lost son)
    Or living like the older son, legalistically trying to follow God’s rules in his own power, and getting tired, and burned-out.

    God is waiting till a heart is ready.
    And He knows what to say what to a person who is asking.
    So I count on that promise!

    When one person talked about the violence of the Cross, I answered:
    “maybe it is not what God wants, but because our fallen state requires it.”

  174. foreverblessed says:

    Found it:
    Hebrews 2:14-15

    “Since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity so that by His death He might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death”

    There is another problem:
    Those who deny that they are held captive by evil, who deny Satan exists. Who look at you in disgust when you say that the world is “the dominion of darkness”

    Col 1:13

    So how can you say that they need to be freed from that kingdom of darkness, if they do not believe they are held captive by it?

    So then you have to wait, till the Holy Spirit sees the time fit.
    And in the mean time:
    Praying

    I feel we are a flock of priests, New testament priests,
    blessing the people we come in contanct with, and especially the ones that ask questions about the difficult things of the bible, the violence.

    I feel this task of praying very very soothing:
    Father, set Your mark on this and this person, they are not ready yet, they do not understand, but have mercy on them when the time is right.

    Numbers 6:24-26
    1 Peter 2:9
    “But you are a chosen peole, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God…”

    And by the way, Jeff, what a beautiful song about the Cross, to meditate upon!

    (Jeff1 says: October 21, 2018 at 4:14 pm

    Are You Washed in the Blood)

    and sorry for the typo just above, Mart is talking..

  175. foreverblessed says:

    Todays Umost says that the Holy Spirit will not debate human reasoning.

    Like Jeff said yesterday:

    “We cannot cherry pick what suits us and God points us to Jesus for our Salvation and Redemption and that is the truth of the Gospel and none of us can refute that and call ourselves a follower of Jesus. ” 2.56 pm

    Also othe song:
    Washed in blood of the Lamb.

    To human reasoning that is quite bloody!

    A bloody solution.
    I am talking about human reasoning, and a lot of my fellow humans, raised in christianity have that reasoning, and they set it aside. Some adhere to some new age reasoning, talking about love, all is “love”
    some have put God aside totally.

    The only thing I can do, is prove by my change through the Holy Spirit, that a super human Deity exists, that Jesus exists just because I am so changed.
    They look at me, and say, how is that possible, you were like this and this, legalistic critical spirit, fearful, judgmental (or whatever failure we have gone into, each in his own way as Isiah 53:6 says), and look how staedy she now is, how full of joy, how full of mergy and grace. Hlw unjudging.

  176. foreverblessed says:

    Ohhm sorry, I hit the submit button, instead of continuing typing.

    When they look at me, they see the:
    Mercy, the grace, how unjudging, how patient.
    And the love the christians have for each other.

    John 17:20b-24
    …I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

    24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

  177. Beloved says:

    I know hardly anything about biology but where does blood come from? We come from dust, did blood come out of dust? Or was it created by God and passed down from mom through moms blood. If so then that makes us truly daughters of Eve. Just thinking.

  178. Beloved says:

    I suppose you could say it’s in our DNA.

  179. Beloved says:

    Heb 2:14-15 very good! Haven’t read that for a while.

  180. Beloved says:

    Unhitched or Irresistible?

    As I have been reading some of the back and forth talks between Andy and R.Foster what I have noticed is the two lines of thinking all revolve around the scriptures but one talks about part of a scripture then the other brings up more, seeing the authors focus as inadequate. Communication is so tricky. I heard a pastor preach on a well known verse using an entirely different emphasis on specific words that gave it different meaning altogether. Not unlike how you can listen to the same news story on 3 different channels and get 3 entirely different stories!

    That said, it’s so important to know what the whole Bible says and if something seems off, check your lense and like Forever says, ask God Himself. He may and we directly or through others. Proverbs says it’s good to have several counselors to check with, yet we know from Job its good to go to the Source of Wisdom finally. I think we all have a part of the Truth but not all of it. Only God knows what God only knows. Meanwhile, we divide into denominations, factions and groups hoping one Day to know all truth, just as a child looks to be like her mom or dad someday.
    Personally I’m grateful for the bits of Wisdom we’ve all been given at one time or another. We all long to be closer to our Creator, I certainly do!

  181. Beloved says:

    He may and we directly or through others.
    (Autocorrect)

    He may answer directly or through others.

  182. poohpity says:

    What I have learned from experience that God reveals different parts of the bible at different times. It is sort of like when you get one lessons down He reveals the next. It never gets old no matter how many times you read it, there is always something new to learn. I guess that is why people refer to it as the living word. So reading it just one time never seems to be enough, it then becomes “Irresistible” as God opens your mind to more revelation upon revelation, so much to learn and so little time but it is time well spent.

    But the warning is the more that that foundation is laid the more aware of false teaching you become and that is actually a very good thing. No more deception but it does bring persecution because wherever lies are confronted it does ruffle some feathers.

  183. street says:

    Galatians 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

    10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

    1 Corinthians 3:9-11
    9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

    10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

  184. street says:

    i think the warning is not to add to Christ or to remove from Christ.

    17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

    18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and [a]from the holy city, which are written in this book.

  185. Beloved says:

    There is a good article in CT on Heresy vs Heterodoxy which helps clear up some issues I think.

    I also want to acknowledge the passing of Eugene Peterson (The Message). His book, A Long Obedience In the Same Direction. helped me through a midlife crisis several years ago. Well done, Eugene! Condolences to his family and friends.

  186. Beloved says:

    Thanks for the last two posts, street.

  187. poohpity says:

    street, have you been adding to or taking away from the prophesy in the letter of Revelation from John?

  188. jeff1 says:

    foreverblessed says:
    October 22, 2018 at 6:50 am

    A bloody solution.
    I am talking about human reasoning, and a lot of my fellow humans, raised in Christianity have that reasoning, and they set it aside. Some adhere to some new age reasoning, talking about love, all is “love”
    some have put God aside totally

    Forever, this world distracts me no matter how hard I try not to let it but it is knowing that Jesus doesn’t give up on us because He loves us more than I can understand that gives me strength and renews my hope when I falter.

    For myself it has become easier as I have gotten older and that is because I was impressionable when I was younger while now I am more trusting of God.

    I believe my peace with God is becoming more undisturbed and its a wonderful feeling to not feel so easy perturbed as it tells me my faith is stronger than it has ever been.

    Leaning on the Everlasting Arms

    What a fellowship, what a joy divine,
    Leaning on the everlasting arms;
    What a blessedness, what a peace is mine,
    Leaning on the everlasting arms.

    Refrain:
    Leaning, leaning,
    Safe and secure from all alarms;
    Leaning, leaning,
    Leaning on the everlasting arms.

    Oh, how sweet to walk in this pilgrim way,
    Leaning on the everlasting arms;
    Oh, how bright the path grows from day to day,
    Leaning on the everlasting arms.

    What have I to dread, what have I to fear,
    Leaning on the everlasting arms?
    I have blessed peace with my Lord so near,
    Leaning on the everlasting arms.

  189. street says:

    was the letter from john?

  190. foreverblessed says:

    Mart writes:
    “My sense is that many are misunderstanding and misquoting Andy in his attempt to clarify the wonder of life in Christ— and counter winds of information that are having such an impact on our young people.”

    When I read the article on CT, that Beloved mentioned, I was thinking the same thing. Mr Foster misunderstands Andy. Andy says that we are to be unhitched from the Old Covenant. Foster writes that we should not be unhitched from the OT. A thing that Andy did not say.

    The Old Covenant, not only the civil laws, the ceremonial laws, but all of it.
    Because now we are under the New Covenant:

    “the wonder of life in Christ”

    Oh, so do we not have to keep the 10 commandments anymore?

    If someone asks that question, he does not realize what it means to have a life in Christ!

    When Moses gave the Old Covenant, he said: When the Prophet comes, you listen to Him.
    Moses already instructed us, to keep an eye on the Prophet, we here all know and are convinced that that is Jesus Christ.
    So now Jesus is the King of our heart. He is our Lord. And what He says, we will do, in the Power of the Risen Christ.

    So now we know that we ought not to murder, but that even thinking hate thoughts is already murder.
    Matthew 5:1-7:29

    I have written here about my own journey in christian life. Having been raised in a fundamental christian church, with heaadquarters in the US, I got english lessons as a child of 7, from Reader’s digest, so I could understand the sermons. I wrote them down, studied my bible every morning made notes.
    We kept quite a lot of things of the Old Covenant, the Festivals, the clean and unclean foods. No stoning of the sinner though, LOL.
    And we knew that Jesus had died for our sins, asked God the give the Holy Spirit to keep the law. The Old Covenant law.
    And when the teachings of Jesus were read, then it was watered down:
    If someone hits you on the right cheeck, you turn the left cheeck to him, instructing us that Jesus does not want us to be doormats.

    Oh dear, and now this man says that the Old Covenant is obsolete. And of course it is!!!
    But it is not wrong to say that you have to keep the 10 commandments, I see it as a ladder, you might start with the 10 commandments, but in your walk with Jesus you will find out that that is a too meager approachj to the full life in Christ.

    “The wonder of the life of Christ in you”

    We are His, He lives in us, and we live in Him.
    It is a love relation! As we could read in Song of Solomon. We are really not unhitched from the OT, the Song of SOngs is very real, is a great description of the life of Christ in us.

    I have written here before, that the Golden Rule, love God above all else, love your neighbour as yourself, is also for starters. But the higher road is:

    Love others as Jesus has loved you.

    As Jesus said:
    I have given you a new command.

    Really: A new command!
    It is really in the bible, just meditate on it. John 13:34. But all of us already know that!

  191. foreverblessed says:

    “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.”
    Gal 6:2

    When looking in biblegateway for old covenant being obsolete, I found this above verse of the day

    Maybe Street has already given this, but never mind, the words are new every morning
    Hebrews 8:6-13
    But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

    7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:

    “The days are coming, declares the Lord,
    when I will make a new covenant
    with the people of Israel
    and with the people of Judah.
    9
    It will not be like the covenant
    I made with their ancestors
    when I took them by the hand
    to lead them out of Egypt,
    because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
    and I turned away from them,
    declares the Lord.
    10
    This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
    after that time, declares the Lord.
    I will put my laws in their minds
    and write them on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    11
    No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest.
    12
    For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”[c]

    13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

  192. foreverblessed says:

    So Paul said he was not under law, but under grace,
    All these verse we know.

    1 Corinthians 9:21
    ” To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.”

    I am under Christ’s Law.

    Wow, he is under no law, but under Christ’s law.

    Maarten Luther was saying that a christian life was like this:
    The christian stands at the seashore, demolishes his boat, and then goes after Christ, walking on water. Christ is the sureness, He shows the way, it is not written in 10 easy rules, it is walking in faith, not knowing where you are going, but trusting Jesus knows.

    When we first start, it is the comfort of the Spirit, healing us, restoring us. Saying that we ARE IN HIM, that nothing can move us.

    But we walk on, and there might be a time when Jesus will ask from us to carry someone elses burden, not loving my own life as much as that of another, but loving someone else more than our own life, just as Jesus gave up His life for me.
    SO in that way we surpass the old golden rule, love others as yourself. We go a higher way.
    With Jesus, and in the power of the Resurrected Christ.

    Irrisistible: The Power of the Resurrection, the same Power is working in us, Ephesians 1:19-23

  193. foreverblessed says:

    God bless you all!
    And walk in the Powe of the Resurrected Jesus, and be full of His life today!
    Thanks be to God, who gives us the strength to live this day. Just enough for the day,
    Today

  194. jeff1 says:

    I am thinking that my own life experiences effects how I see God and why I do not have an ideal view of Him except by focusing on Christ.

    Also of how I live with different denominations of believers and it is not unusual to find that one believes their ways are closer to God’s than the others.

    I believe that it is by not focusing on ‘Jesus’ that I loose sight of God because God says the way to the Father is through the Son.

    I get confused as soon as I take my eyes of Him because then I am getting drawn into what divides rather than what unites which is not what God intended.

    Jesus, is, all I need, because God says so, and if I am trusting God’s word above all other then it is finished in Christ and it is my doubts and wandering that distracts me from this truth.

    From Mart’s Post:

    I’ve hesitated to weigh in too quickly on the waves of disagreement that have made “The Bible for Grown-ups” and “Irresistible” a matter of rumor and alarm. But I’m convinced that Andy has hold of something that could help explain why so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them.

    I am thinking it is not the Bible that should have a hold on me but ‘Jesus’ and so I would agree that Andy sees something that others don’t and that is that the Bible is not a substitute for Jesus, but stories, of infallible human beings like ourselves, and so the Bible encourages, comforts and informs us when in doubt or wandering from God.

    I have heard of different denominations of believers squabbling in public over the truth of the Bible and I have been disheartened but that is because I was raised in a home very different to theirs.

    I was taught to treat the Gospel with reverence and awe as I should God but that may seem to many an outdated view but one that I hold nevertheless.

  195. jeff1 says:

    I am thinking that my own life experiences effects how I see God and why I do not have an ideal view of Him except by focusing on Christ.

    Also of how I live with different denominations of believers and it is not unusual to find that one believes their ways are closer to God’s than the others.

    I believe that it is by not focusing on ‘Jesus’ that I loose sight of God because God says the way to the Father is through the Son.

    I get confused as soon as I take my eyes of Him because then I am getting drawn into what divides rather than what unites which is not what God intended.

    Jesus, is, all I need, because God says so, and if I am trusting God’s word above all other then it is finished in Christ and it is my doubts and wandering that distracts me from this truth.

    From Mart’s Post:

    I’ve hesitated to weigh in too quickly on the waves of disagreement that have made “The Bible for Grown-ups” and “Irresistible” a matter of rumor and alarm. But I’m convinced that Andy has hold of something that could help explain why so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them.

    I am thinking it is not the Bible that should have a hold on me but ‘Jesus’ and so I would agree that Andy sees something that others don’t and that is that the Bible is not a substitute for Jesus, but stories, of infallible human beings like ourselves, and so the Bible encourages, comforts and informs us when in doubt or wandering from God.

    I have heard of different denominations of believers squabbling in public over the truth of the Bible and I have been disheartened but that is because I was raised in a home very different to theirs.

    I was taught to treat the Gospel with reverence and awe as I should God but that may seem to many an outdated view but one that I hold nevertheless.

  196. foreverblessed says:

    Jeff:
    “I am thinking it is not the Bible that should have a hold on me but ‘Jesus’ and so I would agree that Andy sees something that others don’t and that is that the Bible is not a substitute for Jesus, but stories, of infallible human beings like ourselves, and so the Bible encourages, comforts and informs us when in doubt or wandering from God. ”

    So true: we stand on the Rock and that is Jesus!

    When there are discussions, I get tired too! Foster says that Andy wants to unhitch from the OT, but Andy is saying: Be unhitched form the Old Covenant,

    What’s more he is saying: Be part of the New Covenant, the exciting life IN Jesus Christ.

    Citing Mart:
    “and that when he makes the claim that our faith doesn’t rest in the Bible, but in the resurrection of Jesus, he isn’t just trying to be controversial. I believe him when he talks about how much toxic information has been promoted in the name of the Bible— and that we wouldn’t have a 2-Testament-Book if Jesus had remained in the grave. Neither would we have a way of life grounded—not in the rule of law—but in the liberating Spirit of his love for us.”

    Nothing controversial, just very exciting news for us, Good News, and that is the Gospel!

  197. poohpity says:

    Oh wow such wonderful comments this morning. That comment about the bible being stories of infallible human beings in relationship with their loving God is so right on except the “infallible” part we are very fallible but I think that only Jesus is infallible.

  198. poohpity says:

    street not sure what you were asking, “was the letter from john?” If that was asking about “Revelation” yes John the Apostle wrote that from the island of Patmos.

  199. poohpity says:

    In Revelation 22 John said, “The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life. 18And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.” The book of prophesy he is speaking about is the Book of Revelation.

  200. poohpity says:

    But if you were asking from whom did those prophesies come? then that would be from God as recorded by John.

  201. jeff1 says:

    poohpity says:
    October 23, 2018 at 6:39 am

    Oh wow such wonderful comments this morning. That comment about the bible being stories of infallible human beings in relationship with their loving God is so right on except the “infallible” part we are very fallible but I think that only Jesus is infallible.

    Sorry, that is my bad English, as I see that infallible means the opposite to what I thought.

  202. poohpity says:

    I came to realize that if I only had the OT my thoughts of God would not be the same as they are through the revelation of Jesus. Jesus revealed the Father and all the misunderstanding of what God was like found in the OT but we could not know that if it were not for the resurrection and then the Holy Spirit coming. God, through the scriptures reveals more about Himself to us so we can grow closer to Him but God as enormous(if that is even the right word) as He is and how finite our minds are, will never know all there is to know until that time we see Him face to face but we have the B-I-B-L-E in the meantime to reveal Him to us. He wants us to seek to know Him, to have that desire above all else.

    People can use the bible for many things and in many ways that do not consider it as a means to seek Him but for selfish ambition, pride, oppression and sometimes greed, etc.. but for those who seek God and God knows the heart of those who do, they will find Him and He will reveal Himself to the heart that longs for him.

  203. jeff1 says:

    “Lead Me To The Rock”

    When my heart is overwhelmed
    And my eyes are blind to You
    And the pain of life is just too heavy to bear

    And then the mountains seems so high
    And my faith’s too weak to climb
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    When my life is hit with fear
    And I fight to hide the tears
    And I wrestle in my heart to know what to do

    Lord, I’m welling up inside
    But I know You hear my cry
    Jesus, lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I

    You are the rock and there is no other
    A tower of strength, You are my shelter
    Lord, You are my hope eternal
    You are the rock that is higher than I

    You are the rock and there is no other, oh
    A tower of strength, You are my shelter
    Lord, You are my hope eternal
    You are the rock that is higher than I

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh

    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh
    Lead me to the rock, lead me to the rock
    Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, oh

  204. street says:

    Unhitched and Re-hitched

    41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

    42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

    43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

    this man’s faith,unhitched and re-hitched, is still bearing fruit a few thousand years later. Jesus remembered him.

    i think of the long line of the saints how their lives are linked and touch one another making a new body, who’s head is Christ. Old and New. made new in Christ. if all the things He did were recorded in books even the earth could not contain them.

    your sea, Lord, is indeed big and my boat so small. teach my to walk and soar.

  205. street says:

    teach me proof reading, english too or maybe hebrew. yet Christ is all i need. just as confusion started at the tower, one day, one language maybe, even angels have not heard. Jesus is LORD.

    a language without corruption or futility.
    to go along with incorruptible bodies.

    thinking soon, blink of an eye. the phrase where does the time go? comes to mind.

    Psalm 90:12
    So teach us to number our days, That we may present to You a heart of wisdom.

    a heart that goes past the law in generosity love faithfulness mercy grace forgiveness thanksgiving and joy. like boas and the woman that dried your feet with her hair.

  206. street says:

    The human heart’s desire to live forever can’t be satisfied by the stuff of earth; rather, its fulfillment is found in God through the gift of His Son, Jesus. And there’s no catch—just the joy of being in His presence forever!

    learning the joy of Love.
    john linking love and joy with obedience.

    4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

    Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

    They *said to Him, “Caesar’s.” Then He *said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.”

  207. street says:

    render, i counted 24 definitions or ways to use this word.

    it seems i do not know my native language very well.

    i am much better at four letter words.

    the boat gets smaller.

  208. Beloved says:

    Irresistible

    2 Corinthians 2:14-17
    But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

  209. Beloved says:

    In a Bible study today we talked briefly about how we smell or taste (depending on the translation and original Greek) to others and to God. Thinking about the irresistible odor for those outside the faith. And inside as Paul says. Am I a peddler of Gods word, or am I sincere, commissioned to speak Christ? (Rhetorical question) I guess that’s the difference between wheat and tares. Some things only God knows for sure, but it’s obvious that either Christ is resisted, or He is embraced and we follow/walk with Him. With a limp, of course!

  210. SFDBWV says:

    I get Charles Stanley’s “In Touch” magazine and devotionals. I may have overlooked it these past few months, but I have seen no advertisements nor references to Andy Stanley’s thoughts, books or commentary.

    I often listen to Charles Stanley’s sermons and have never heard him introduce Andy’s “theories”.

    He preaches the Gospel and uses the Bible as reference.

    If I were to find such a person upon the earth who had never heard of Jesus or of Christianity and were to make the attempt to introduce such individual to Jesus; I might say, “Allow me to introduce you to a man who can heal the sick, raise the dead and give you eternal peace in paradise.”

    Such person might then ask “Tell me more.”

    In telling more you need Genesis to Malachi to tell the introduction and Matthew through Revelation to complete it.

    There is a treasure trove of information found within the pages, more than just spiritual knowledge, but life lessons and for the most serious among us revelation knowledge about the earth, the heavens and how to live a happy contented life.

    Found in the pages of the OT are the words that warn about a person who refuses to “learn”, to obtain “wisdom”.

    Impetuous behavior will result in troubles.

    I would rather hope that Andy is more impetuous than contentious.

    36 degrees under a full moon.

    Steve

  211. jeff1 says:

    Yes, impetuous behaviour does result in troubles as my dad warned me when I was younger but I was impressionable and listed to the wrong people.

    My dad was not impressionable and now I know why because he knew whom to listen to so that he was not being led astray.

    When my mum filled my head with superstitious nonsense he would say to me not to listen to her and he was right of course and yet in my own ignorance I said to my Rector that I found Catholics to be very superstitious and my Rector replied that many of his flock are also superstitious and that indeed this world is full of superstitions that have been carried down and so it was obvious to him (my Rector) that my dad knew his Bible and his God well.

    My dad’s expectations were that he should be on God’s side i.e his response being God willing, and if not, God knows best.

    A simple faith that seen God’s Omniscience as supreme and his part to obey.

    My dad taught me that there is a fine line when it comes to playing God and how easy it is to cross it.

    His strength was that he didn’t as he knew his place was to trust and obey and not to play.

    What I am finding is that it is much more difficult to follow God and much easier to play Him and perhaps why I stumble so often and God keeps bringing me back down to earth to show me who is boss.

  212. SFDBWV says:

    Life on this earth is a “hell” of a place anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.

    Be wary and cautious of people who try and sell you the easy way, the way around, the “lottery ticket” to happiness.

    With the gift of salvation comes a responsibility to honor such a sacrifice.

    Don’t forget where we came from and what it took to get here, in the excitement of where we are now.

    Steve

  213. SFDBWV says:

    Hello Viv, I was writing while you posted, always pleasant to hear from you. hope that your day is filled with good things.

    Steve

  214. poohpity says:

    I think Charles Stanley uses his magazine to teach about God’s son not his own son. Just as Andy Stanley uses his time to teach about Jesus and His Father rather than teaching about his own father. But I could be wrong but since I listen to both I see more often than not that both point people to God not each other. The difference being the audience they are preaching to as do most evangelists consider who’s listening before they share their own testimony. Charles talks about when we became a believer and what his home life was like and Andy teaches about his home life with the bible being a main part of that life since Charles loves God’s word and passed that down to his children. Different approaches but they are united in the same message, belief in Jesus is the only way to salvation.

  215. poohpity says:

    Before one can share the Good News they have to know just exactly what it is and how to share it’s impact in their life. Used to be that some who shared the Gospel started with the OT to show much of a sinner people are by how many of the 10 commandments they broke, like stealing, lying, lustful thoughts, etc. but there are those of us who start by asking, “Do you know or have you heard of the love and forgiveness of God found in Jesus Christ?”. It all begins by having a conversation with someone first and then God opens the door where to go from there.

    There are many people who have heard “about” God or Jesus but do not know that God wants to have a personal relationship with them, that is even true for people who are regular church attenders.

  216. poohpity says:

    Or one can start by asking if someone mentions God in some form or another what they have heard about God to get the conversation started. There are many ways that lead into sharing the Gospel. But evangelists say to have about a 3 minute talk prepared in advance so that one can share the hope they have found in knowing the lord. If one does not have hope for today and think everything is horrible or hellish what hope do they have to share? Having a relationship with God in the here and now no matter the circumstance we face brings contentment, peace, joy and a whole different way to look at the world around us.

  217. jeff1 says:

    Hi Steve,

    Despite some concerns for my son my faith is strong I know trusting God is the right choice.

    If I have learned anything it is that God is very much present in my difficulties and it is He who strengthens and gives me hope when I am trusting Him.

    God told us we would have tribulation but in His Omniscience He has overcome the world so I will fight the good fight in the knowledge that a better home awaits us.

    May your days also be of goodness, contentment and continued faith in the God of our forefathers whose faith down the ages has been inspiring and courage relentless in proclaiming the good news of the Gospel of Christ.

    Will The Circle Be Unbroken

    I was standing by the window
    On one cold and cloudy day
    When I saw the hearse come rolling
    For to carry my mother away

    Will the circle be unbroken
    By and by Lord, by and by
    There’s a better home awaiting
    In the sky Lord, in the sky

    I said to the undertaker
    Undertaker please drive slow
    For this lady you are carrying
    Lord I hate to see her go

    Will the circle be unbroken
    By and by Lord, by and by
    There’s a better home awaiting
    In the sky Lord, in the sky

    Oh, I followed close behind her
    Tried to hold up and be brave
    But I could not hide my sorrow
    When they laid her in the grave

    Will the circle be unbroken
    By and by Lord, by and by
    There’s a better home awaiting
    In the sky Lord, in the sky

    I went back home, the home was lonesome
    Since my mother, she was gone
    All my brothers and sisters crying
    What a home so sad and alone

    Will the circle be unbroken
    By and by Lord, by and by
    There’s a better home awaiting
    In the sky Lord, in the sky

    We sang songs of childhood
    Hymns of faith that made us strong
    Ones that mother maybelle taught us
    Hear the angels sing along

    Will the circle be unbroken
    By and by Lord, by and by
    There’s a better home awaiting
    In the sky Lord, in the sky

  218. SFDBWV says:

    Hello again Viv, I love that song, my favorite rendition of it being from Johnny Cash and June Carter.

    I have often said I set here in the early morning and listen to music on “YouTube”. I have been lately filling up on Emily Lou Harris, Joan Baez, Allison Krause, Arlo Guthrie and a few other folk singers.

    Like you I too can relax and commune with God through music.

    Feeling your blessing already today.

    Steve

  219. foreverblessed says:

    That is a touchy song, Jeff!
    This song must be for children who have list their mother too early.
    My mother-in-law said, we old people cannot stay on earth, we have to go some time. The earth would be crowded with old people if they didn’t go. She was 85, and her body was warn out. There was peace when she left. She was a believers, and she looked forward seeing her son in heavens, one son that had lived only a few hours. In a dream she had seen him.

    Now on the subject, I have heard sermon one and two of Andy. They start at 20 minutes, and last 50 minutes.
    One thing is very clear to me, he treasures the whole Bible!
    He says we ought to be unhitched from the old covenant, but nowhere does he say we are to unhitch from the OT.
    In fact in the second sermon at some point he starts in Genesis 1:1, and preaches how important that message is.
    Just the importance of that very first Bible verse!
    So, yes, Andy treasures the Old Testament!

    I was thinking to see how I could get only that part on video, and give it to my sons. Who say that the other civilisations have similar creation stories, and that the Bible just copied those stories.
    Andy says that now scientists are convinced that the creation story of the Bible stands on its own. And is totally different from all the other civilisations! That all these old creation stories is about gods who are warring with one another. That creation of mankind was an afterthought, that man was created so that the gods could rest. Man as slave for the gods. That man had no worth in the eyes of the gods, and that reflected on how men treated women and children: no dignity.

    And this is very interesting what Andy says, and here comes the account of Moses:
    In the beginning God…
    Just One God!
    No warring factions…
    And God made man as a first thought, first and foremost, male and female, in the image of God He made them!
    God gave dignity to men AND women.
    Both are of great worth, same worth!
    And mankind would rule ( be good stuarts) over creation, not worshipping creation, as all religions did.

    So, yes, I find this good stuff to give to my children, as an antidote to all negativity that had been on internet about ggd Bible. I know now what Mart means,my children have seen those videos too. That was a couple of years ago.
    Videos that compared the story of the Bible with that of the Egyptians, Babylonian and other old manuscripts.

    He also talks about, the beginning…
    That Aristotle thought the universe always existed. That there was a time there was no matter.
    Genesis 1:1 says the everything that has a beginning has a cause. ( God having no beginning)
    Also good stuff for my children, who read Richard Hawkins, and Richard Dawkins.
    I find it good that there are people who can communicate with such readers.

    Anyway, I now understand what Mart is saying, and it is indeed good for me to study this. So I can give an apt reply to questions of my children, who have see all those anti- Bible videos.

    Proverbs 15:23, the verse of the day of Bible gateway, October 22

  220. jeff1 says:

    Yes, Steve, I have found so much peace through song and music and so I know God finds a way to connect with me.

    It is such a blessing and I am glad we share it. I love the gospel music of the Gaithers, Hoppers, Lynda Randle to name but a few and of course Elvis whose album ‘His Hand In Mine’ I was listening to from I was around 10 years of age.

    This is a beautiful song from the Hoppers.

    Grace Will Always Be Greater Than Sin

    In holy pages, this truth can be found.
    A promise to stand on when darkness abounds.
    Oh right never loses, and wrong never wins.
    And grace will always be greater than sin.
    Grace will always be greater than sin.
    Calvary has proven it time and again.
    Whatever you’ve done, wherever you’ve been–
    God’s grace will always be greater than sin.
    Broken and bruised from the choices you’ve made,
    Sin has a price and so often you’ve paid.
    Oh but Jesus is waiting, new hope is in Him.
    And grace will always be greater than sin!
    Grace will always be greater than sin.
    Calvary has proven it time and again.
    Whatever you’ve done, wherever you’ve been–
    God’s grace will always be greater than sin.
    Grace, grace, God’s grace–
    Grace that is greater than all my sin!
    Whatever you’ve done, wherever you’ve been–
    God’s grace will always be greater than sin!

  221. Beloved says:

    Forever that was interesting. I think Andy is a very good preacher also. I liked your explanation of Creation. I too went through a period of progressive post-modern thought after I had become disillusioned because of attacks by satan through my church family which caused me to dissociate myself from the church for several years.
    I did not dissociate myself from Jesus though. If Jesus weren’t alive I would have gotten forever lost in worldly thinking. So grateful to know Him, I pray your sons could know Him also, if they don’t already. I read much of what your sons read also but was never convinced as I knew the Bible pretty well by then. I think I was trying to understand how there could be such evil in church. It made no sense to me, but now I am wary and try to just love as Christ has lived me, and let God sort them out,so to speak.

  222. Beloved says:

    Hitched by the power of God!

    12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name,he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

  223. Beloved says:

    Unhitched from my flesh/blood family! Which means all experiences, traumas, abnormalities genetic ties are broken! Even the good things are weak in the light of the goodness of God. Oh blessed Savior thank you for showing me the true Light, the Light of life!

  224. Beloved says:

    Irresistible

    O Love, that wilt not let me go,
    I rest my weary soul in Thee;
    I give Thee back the life I owe,
    That in Thine ocean depths its flow
    May richer, fuller be.
    2
    O Light, that followest all my way,
    I yield my flickering torch to Thee;
    My heart restores its borrowed ray,
    That in Thy sunshine’s blaze its day
    May brighter, fairer be.
    3
    O Joy, that seekest me through pain,
    I cannot close my heart to Thee;
    I trace the rainbow through the rain,
    And feel the promise is not vain
    That morn shall tearless be.
    4
    O Cross, that liftest up my head,
    I dare not ask to fly from Thee;
    I lay in dust life’s glory dead,
    And from the ground there blossoms red
    Life that shall endless be.

  225. jeff1 says:

    foreverblessed says:
    October 24, 2018 at 9:38 am

    Anyway, I now understand what Mart is saying, and it is indeed good for me to study this. So I can give an apt reply to questions of my children, who have see all those anti- Bible videos

    I am thinking that I am very much out of my depth as I did not know such videos existed.

    I am finding I cannot keep up with all the changes in the world and possibly why I find it so tiring.

    There has always been controversies surrounding the Bible and yet we see from the times we live in that division has never been more rife with all like sheep going astray and Jesus being the Light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.

    “Here I Am To Worship / Call”

    Light of the world
    You stepped down into darkness
    Opened my eyes, let me see
    Beauty that made this heart
    Adore you
    Hope of a life spend with you

    So here I am to worship
    Here I am to bow down
    Here I am to say that you’re my God
    You’re altogether lovely
    All together worthy
    All together wonderful to me

    King of all day’s oh so highly exalted
    Glorious in heaven above
    Humbly you came to the earth you created all for love’s sake became poor

    Here I am to worship
    Here I am to bow down
    Here I am to say that You’re my God
    You’re altogether lovely
    All together worthy
    All together wonderful to me

    I’ll never know how much it cost
    To see my sin upon that cross
    I’ll never know how much it cost
    To see my sin upon that cross
    I’ll never know how much it cost
    To see my sin upon that cross
    I’ll never know how much it cost

    Here I am to worship
    Here I am to bow down
    Here I am to say that You’re my God
    You’re altogether lovely
    All together worthy
    All together wonderful to me

    Here I am to worship
    Here I am to bow down
    Here I am to say that You’re my God
    You’re altogether lovely
    All together worthy
    All together wonderful to me

    I’ll never know how much it cost
    To see my sins upon that cross

  226. street says:

    Unhitched and Irresistible
    thinking about how people become hitched to the things of the world. we become hitched to the things we delight in!
    who would not?!?! we were made to delight, rejoice, and be full of joy!!! thinking the fullest expression of this is found in another not ourselves. yes, i have delighted in others. they are as temporal and fickle as i am. does that lessen the delight? over time perhaps. maybe because of changes in me and the one i delighted in.

    Jesus never changes. made new every mourning. the only eternal delight. the earth is filled with His Glory.
    saul saul why do you persecute me? treasure hidden in a field. what ever you did to the least of these, you did it to Me. go love one another as I have loved you. in Spirit and Truth. in jars of clay. Matthew 5

  227. Beloved says:

    Unhitched

    This is a miracle. One of my study teachers was raised Catholic and felt called to be a nun. At age 18 she was converted through reading 1 John 1:9. She then went on to get her theology degree from an evangelical institution and began teaching. The study we are doing is on slaying giants, like doubt for instance (D.Jeremiah). At the age of 68 she just learned that temptation is not sin! Isn’t that amazing!! Oh it is so exciting to watch God work in our lives. As I told another older teacher who still struggles with her color and years of abuse and discrimination Christ came to set us free!!! Free from all that bad stuff that has happened. Truly unhitched we are. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, Jesus said. Keeping my eyes on the prize until I get distracted by something or another. Then I will once again hitch myself to His yoke and rest in that freedom He has provided. I see two horses in the picture but with me in it it’s more like a mule hitched to a horse, a beautiful white horse. Oh how he loves you all, and me!

  228. street says:

    our Champion!

  229. Beloved says:

    Indeed!

  230. street says:

    My take is that Andy has a message that needs to be carefully considered.

    8 Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. 9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”

    Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

  231. foreverblessed says:

    The implications of what Jesus said: It is finished!
    If we would take that message and meditate upon it, and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the depth of that into our hearts, ohh, what a great thing that is!

    Beloved, you had your moment of relief yesterday: Temptation is no sin.

    The message of the Cross is just so good, and even better the message of the Resurrection,
    We are kept in the power of God, that same Power
    …that is like the working of His mighty strength, which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority..
    Eph 1:19-21

  232. foreverblessed says:

    Didn’t someone here mention Dr Brown interviewing Andy? I couldn’t find it, though.
    “Dr Brown interviews pastor Andy Stanley”
    Andy says, that Dr Brown is fair to ask him, face to face, difficult questions, the rest just don’t ask him what he meant to say, and write critical articles.
    This interview to me shows what a christian should be like, the way they talk is full of respect! This is showing ot the world what unity in Christ is about.

    Brown asks this question: Do you unhitch yourself from the OT, and then he lets Andy talk, and Andy has a long answer, but it is clear that he treasures all of scripture.

    I myself believe that the CT articles say it better: Andy unhitches himself from the Old Covenant, and that should be the better wording.

    But Andy goes into the perspectiove of the first apostles, who were Jewish and had the vision of the chosen nation Israel, and the King, the promised Prophet, that would come and make a real kingdom of earth, making Israel the most important nation. And then Jesus dies!
    Their whole vision is gone. Their whole idea of what the OT was about was gone!

    Then Jesus is raised from the dead, and He shows them how scriptures were fulfilled. That all of it was already there from Genesis to Malechi, that Jesus would be the Savior, not only of Israel, but of all the world.

    And that the way of being jewish, as a chosen nation to be seperate from the rest of the world, was to be abandoned. That they had to go into the world and preach the gospel.

    Peter had to unhitch himself from the jewish way of thinking, Acts 10:9-48 The dream of the clean and unclean food, that jews were not to distatioate themselves from gentiles, that gentiles were also to be called into a living relation with Jesus.

    Andy says that a lot of things are secundary in the bible. But we should know what is of primary importance: That we stand on the Person Jesus Christ, who died for our sins, and was rissen.
    The Resurrection is the main theme of the whole christian movement.

    Then Andy says that a Jewish person, I think a Rabbi, said he didn’t believe that someone else could pay for our sins, that we have to pay for our own sins.
    He said: This man touches on the basics of what christianity is about! Not about if Jericho could be found in archeology, or about the deluge if it was worldwide covering the whole world, or any other secundary thing in th bible.

    People have to wrestle with the resurrection of Jesus, a personal wrestle, and their faith must be on that fact, a personal relation with Jesus as a result of accepting Him as Lord and Savior.

    And all these others things are secundary.Do we find a historical Jericho? Do we keep holydays, do we eat clean food, do we believe in a literal 6 day creation, these are all secundary things.

    We need a Savior, and that is Jesus.

    But to see that you need a Savior, you need to feel lost. And how do you come to that part.

    I keep on praying intercessory prayers, for my family, for your families. The Holy Spirit is the Only One who can open a mind.

    And in the mean time, I can see to myself, and trust Jesus more and more that He is the One who is making me new every day.

  233. foreverblessed says:

    on minute 30 in the interview, first century Judaism is explained, the exclusiveness, that was against the new view of the Gospel.
    Listen to minute 36, where Brown said: You should have given a different wording…
    (Dr Brown interviews Andy Stanley)

    that is what I think too, differnent wording, the Christianity Today, uses the word: Unhitch from the Old Covenant.

    But that also showes to me, how fast the judging of many christian people is done. Just judging that Andy is wrong, and be aware of him.

  234. foreverblessed says:

    On minute 40- 50 is basicly the chore of the interview, they come on terms.
    Michael Brown saying that people can mention the violence in OT, the killing of the Canaanites, the having of thousand wives, and Andy says, yes, leave that for a moment, and start about Jesus, was He raised from the dead? If He didn’t all of it useless, but get around that first.

    The local church should make disciples, to teach the people who are in the church. Bible for grown-ups. The New Covenant makes the Old Covenant obsolete. So that Ols Covenant is all gone, and we are unhitched from it.
    Now listen to Jesus, what He instructs.
    Just as Moses said: When the Prophet comes, listen to Him. Deut 18:15-18

    The wording is now mine, but really, were my parents in his church, I would not have been taught all these OT laws, and trying to keep them, having missed the real issue: Is Jesus raised from the dead, and is His rissen Life now daily in you, making you new, and restoring you, and healing you, and giving you full life, The life of Faith in Jesus power.
    He alone can make me whole.
    I have to be meek and say: You are my Lord.

  235. jeff1 says:

    1 Gentle Jesus, meek and mild,
    Look upon a little child;
    Pity my simplicity,
    Suffer me to come to Thee.

    2 Lamb of God, I look to Thee;
    Thou shalt my example be:
    Thou art gentle, meek and mild;
    Thou wast once a little child.

    3 Fain I would be as Thou art;
    Give me Thine obedient heart:
    Thou art pitiful and kind;
    Let me have Thy loving mind.

    4 Loving Jesus, gentle Lamb,
    In Thy gracious hands I am;
    Make me, Saviour, what Thou art,
    Live Thyself within my heart.

    Amen

  236. foreverblessed says:

    Dear Jeff,
    that song says it all!
    The essence of being a christian.

    Not everybody has to debate with unbelievers.
    Like what Paul did, he could debate with the Greek, he became a greek to the greek so as to win them for Christ. He could talk with them, without starting with: You are all wrong with all these gods.
    No, he found a common place where to start.

    That is not everybodies commission.
    Andy has a mission for the unbelievers, or the once-believers.

    You just stay in that peaceful place: Safe in Jesus arms.

    Psalm 91:1-2


    Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High
    will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.

    I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress,
    my God, in whom I trust.””

  237. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed you have spoken well concerning Andy Stanley and especially his interview on CT.

    Also you are right in stating much of this “issue” is simply a poor choice of words. Something we here on BTA have problems with as well.

    Everything about the Laws of Moses and Gentile believers was discussed and handled in the Book of Acts 15:1-21 even in the matter of the eating of unclean foods, God explains to Peter what He cleanses He cleanses (Acts 11:5-9).

    However nowhere in Scripture is it written that God canceled/expired the covenant He made with Israel.

    I think Andy picked a fight that wasn’t necessary, by his misuse of words as well as some of his personal theology, and why there is a disagreement among other believers.

    As far as the violence of God, I once again refer to Revelation 4:5- Revelation 22:21 and allow the Word of God to speak for Himself.

    However as to the issue of our topic and as Mart stated “Andy has hold of something that could help explain why so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them.”

    There is grave danger in misinterpretation of the Bible and of adding to it something that is not written there. As well as ignoring all the things written that we are to abstain from in the misuse of grace.

    Perhaps the real reason so many in our day would say that the B-I-B-L-E no longer has a hold on them is they don’t like being told what they can do and what they can’t.

    24 degrees under a full moon.

    Steve

  238. foreverblessed says:

    Dear Steve, yes, a poor use of words. That is why I like Dr Brown that just asks and persists in asking, and then they come to the conclusion that Andy and he aren’s far off.

    Andy meant to say: We are based on Jesus, not on letters in a book. Our basis is not the bible, but we treasure the bible, from beginning to end.

    On the Chrisian Coalission site there is also an article, saying: Why we can’t unhitch ourselves form the OT.

    If that writer had really done what Brown did, he would not have written this article.

    If a christians says we are to unhitch from the Old Covenant, then it is really biblically.

    Now it needs a mature christian to see that it included the 10 commandments, but that means that we are hitched to the “laws” of Jesus, and they go much and much furhter than the 10 commandments.

    So, no, we do not break the 10 commandments when we follow Jesus.
    We obey what Jesus says!

    But we are hitched to Jesus.

    So I do indeed agree it it useless debating this with christians who are not matured, who are in their first reaction: Defensive!

    If they would sit down together and talk this through, they would come to the conclusion that they mean the same thing, ultimatley.

    When a christian starts, he may think he has to live in faith, and obey the 10 commandments qas a sort of basic rule. A good place to start.

    But there comes a time, when he sees that he is folowing a Person, who wants to speak intimately to his heart, just for him personally, and that leading far surpasses the scope of the 10 commandments.

    But we all know that, we all know the sermon on the mount.Matthew 5,6,7. But Andy just states how far this New Covenant reaches.

    That the Old Covenant is really expired and out of date.

  239. jeff1 says:

    When I am trusting Jesus I do not stop trying to keep the 10 commandments but it becomes easier to keep them because I have Him in my heart to cheer me on knowing that when I fall down I can get up again because He doesn’t forsake me because of my weakness but is patient in understanding my failings.

    He strengthens me so that I grow stronger from my trials and less apt to repeat them.

    I become more dependant on His leading and ultimately His commands become less of a chore and more of a natural response to His Spirit working within me.

    I want Him to remove whatever it is that keeps me from His Ways so that I am obedient to Him and not distracted by the ways of the world.

    Walk with me, Lord! Walk with me!
    Walk with me, Lord! Why don’t you walk with me!
    While I’m on this, this tedious journey,
    I need You, Jesus, to walk with me.

    Be my friend, Lord! Be my friend!
    Be my friend, Lord! Why don’t you be my friend!
    While I’m on this, this tedious journey,
    I need You, Jesus, to be my friend.

    Don’t leave me alone, Lord!
    Don’t leave me alone!
    Don’t leave me alone, Lord!
    Please don’t leave me alone!
    While I’m on this, this tedious journey,
    I need You, Jesus, to walk with me.

    Oh, walk with me Lord
    Walk with me
    Come on and walk with me Lord
    Why don’t you walk with me
    Hey while I walk this this tedious journey
    Lord I need you Jesus yes I need you Lord to walk with me.

  240. foreverblessed says:

    Last topic we talked about being legalistic.
    Being under Grace, faith in Jesus.

    That old thing of faith and obedience.

    This topic is about what commands do we obey!
    Not the matter, if we obey, but what do we obey.

    The Old Covenant is passed, obsolete.
    The New Covenant is new

    A New Command I give you: Love each other as I have loved you.

    Andy says: This should be our motive in acting in life:
    AS Christ has treated us, so we treat others.

    And I add, not in our own power, that would be legalistic again, but now iunder a law we could never keep on our own, then the 10 commandments is easier, if you are being legalistic.
    Being legalistic and trying to follow the commands of Jesus is impossible.
    So yes, living in Grace
    That means:

    Living in the Power of the resurrected Christ.
    That same power,
    Ephesians 1:19-21

  241. foreverblessed says:

    For your information:

    “There is a common way of dividing the OT law into three categories: ceremonial, civil, and moral. While I don’t use this division in my book, it may clarify what I’m saying. When I say that the Old Testament has ended, it means the ceremonial laws are fulfilled in the death of Jesus—no more sacrifices in the temple, no more priests. OT civil laws are no longer enforced, since they were given for the nation of Israel formed at Mt. Sinai. And while God’s moral laws have not changed, they are transformed into something new. They are reset upon a new and better foundation, Jesus Christ.

    As I explain in Irresistible, the OT asked us to base our love for others upon our own standard of fairness—how we want to be treated. Jesus said this was the great commandment of the OT, to love your neighbor as yourself—the golden rule. But then he takes us one step further. Jesus gives us a new and better command, one that’s not based on you or me, but on the standard of love Jesus has shown to us. I call this the platinum rule. Jesus Christ has ended the old covenant once and for all, with all the Old Testament practices, promises, and expectations. We need to stop mixing the old with the new, because God has given us something better in Jesus Christ and his new command.”

    from the Christianity Today, October 19
    Andy Stanley: Jesus Ended the Old Covenant Once and for All

  242. jeff1 says:

    It was in my failure to love others that I looked to Jesus in my weakness and so submitted my will to His will so that He accomplishes what I could not.

    I obey Jesus or I fail and take refuge in Him/Grace.

    I am either submitted to the Holy Spirit or I am living in Grace.

    All God’s work and I the recipient/gift.

    God is true to His Word and I am a Sinner Saved By Grace.

    Sinner Saved By Grace

    If you could see
    What I once was
    If you could go with me
    Back to where I started from
    Then, I know you would see
    A miracle of Love that put me
    In it’s sweet embrace
    And made me what I am today
    Just an old sinner
    Saved by grace

    I’m just a sinner
    Saved by grace
    When I stood condemned to death
    He took my place
    Now I live and breathe in freedom
    With each breath of life I take
    Loved and forgivin
    Back with the living
    I’m just a sinner
    Saved by grace

    How could I boast on anything
    I’ve ever seen or done
    How could I dare to claim as mine
    The victories God has won
    Where would I be
    Had God not brought me
    Gently to this place
    I’m here to say I’m nothing but
    A sinner saved by gra

    I’m just a sinner
    Saved by grace
    When I stood condemned to death
    He took my place
    Now I grow and breathe in freedom
    With each breath of life I take
    I’m loved and forgivin
    Back with the living
    I’m just a sinner
    Saved by grace

    Now I grow and breathe in freedom
    with each breath of life I take
    I’m loved and forgivin
    back with the living
    I’m just a sinner
    Saved by grace
    Saved by grace

    Sinner Saved By Grace

  243. poohpity says:

    The old covenant had one purpose for human beings and that was to show us that we sin because we are unable to follow all those laws. I hate to burst your bubble but there are not only 10 but 613 then when they are broken there were several kinds of sacrifices in place to cover those sins depending on what law was broken. Forever was right Jesus took those laws a step further to show us our true sin nature by saying the law says but I say even if you think of breaking those things in your heart you are also guilty of breaking them all just for thinking it.

    A heart made right with God through faith in Jesus and his resurrection is a open door for God to place His Holy Spirit within us. When that Spirit lives in us we follow His guidance, it is not a matter of following the law but following grace. Grace because we know that we were unable to follow all God’s laws YET we are covered in the blood of the sacrificial lamb. When we grasp how deep God’s love is for us even though we sin that is life changing our desire is no longer for sin but to be close to the One who did fulfill all those laws, it is for holiness, being set apart for God.

    The whole New Testament is about letting go of the old covenant for something new and better that was foretold from the foundation of the world, it was God’s plan all along but revealed through Jesus at the right and proper time. But first we had to come to realize we could not follow those laws or even the heart of those laws and needed a sacrifice to stand in our place, to cover our failures just as there were sacrifices in the law but they were only temporary until that final and perfect sacrifice was completed/finished.

  244. poohpity says:

    If one is unable to see the sin in their life they will never, never be able to understand the grace of God. If they think they can follow all those laws, then they will never, never be able to accept what Jesus did on the Cross or His resurrection and if they say they believe and still desire to follow the law then they trod all over Jesus and actually do not believe at all. Jesus is the only way to the Father, following the law gets us nothing because no one except Jesus was able to do that.

  245. SFDBWV says:

    October 25, 2018
    Deadly Sin
    “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.” (1 John 5:16)

    Many pastors and other godly leaders have been asked about this verse. Usually, the question is asked from a very personal perspective: “Have I committed this kind of sin?”

    This reference does not seem to apply to the famous “unforgivable sin” (Matthew 12:31), since that sin is the final rejection of God’s truth transmitted to all humanity by the Holy Spirit (John 3:19; 16:7-11). In the context of today’s text, John is clearly writing and warning believers that it is possible to commit a sin that is worthy of physical death—a sin so obvious to others that the brethren are not told to “pray for it.”

    There are a few such examples in the Scripture.

    • The sons of Eli dishonoring the priesthood (1 Samuel 2)
    • Korah’s rebellion against Moses (Numbers 16)
    • Ananias and Sapphira lying to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5)
    • An incestuous church member delivered over to Satan for his destruction (1 Corinthians 5)
    • Those who have known the “good things” of God but have withdrawn after having “tasted” them (Hebrews 6:4-6)
    • Willful sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth (Hebrews 10:26)
    • Returning again to bondage after knowing the freedom in Christ (2 Peter 2:20-22)

    All sin produces “death” (James 1:15), and all of us will die because of sin (Genesis 3:19; Hebrews 9:27). But this deadly sin brings about the premature “execution” of a believer when he or she consciously refuses to follow known righteousness and instead chooses open ungodliness. May it never be so among us. HMM III

    From “Days of Praise” hope all enjoy.

    Steve

  246. poohpity says:

    If one does not believe what God told Moses about the creation of the world in a literal six days then what else that God has said will you not believe? The only One there at the beginning was God and only He could share with Moses what happened and that is what He said happened.

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

  247. Beloved says:

    Forever it was the great relief of my teacher, to learn that after so many years! She must have a load of guilt removed now! I’m so thankful to Jesus!

  248. poohpity says:

    Eph 1: I also pray that you will understand the incredible greatness of God’s power for us who believe him. This is the same mighty power 20 that raised Christ from the dead and seated him in the place of honor at God’s right hand in the heavenly realms.

  249. Beloved says:

    Forever your misunderstanding me shows how easy it is to misunderstand anyone! Almost. As you brought up earlier.

  250. poohpity says:

    Steve, if you believe, “However nowhere in Scripture is it written that God canceled/expired the covenant He made with Israel.” then what you have to say about Hebrews 7:

    Jesus became a priest, not by meeting the physical requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed. 17 And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied, “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.” 18 Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. 19 For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God. 20 This new system was established with a solemn oath. Aaron’s descendants became priests without such an oath, 21 but there was an oath regarding Jesus. For God said to him, “The LORD has taken an oath and will not break his vow: ‘You are a priest forever.’” 22 Because of this oath, Jesus is the one who guarantees this better covenant with God.

  251. poohpity says:

    Hebrews 8: But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises. 7 If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it. 8 But when God found fault with the people, he said: “The day is coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 9 This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt. They did not remain faithful to my covenant, so I turned my back on them, says the LORD

    13 When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

  252. poohpity says:

    Hebrews 9: That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings. But you have given me a body to offer. 6 You were not pleased with burnt offerings or other offerings for sin. 7 Then I said, ‘Look, I have come to do your will, O God— as is written about me in the Scriptures.’” 8 First, Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” (though they are required by the law of Moses). 9 Then he said, “Look, I have come to do your will.” He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect.

  253. jeff1 says:

    I am always reminding myself not to lean on my own understanding but to look to God for His as that is what my dad did in his lifetime and he was a very good example for me.

    I too have discovered that it is very easy to misunderstand and be misunderstood by others but in the end trusting God’s righteousness is much more important than being right myself.

  254. poohpity says:

    Paul prompted us in Colossians to ask God to fill us with His will that our desire is to get to know Him better and better. Ask God what His desire is for our lives and for the world. I think you will find that that desire would be for God to be first and foremost in our lives. Nothing besides that will ever be able to satisfy that empty hole in our hearts that we try to fill with so many things other than God.

  255. Beloved says:

    Viv you are so right!

  256. jeff1 says:

    God has given me peace in my heart as that is what I desired for I was tired or war and its consequences. I have discovered that man’s ways are not God’s ways because His are far better and right now that brings me the contentment I need to survive in this world.

  257. street says:

    11 Because we understand our fearful responsibility to the Lord, we work hard to persuade others. God knows we are sincere, and I hope you know this, too. 12 Are we commending ourselves to you again? No, we are giving you a reason to be proud of us, so you can answer those who brag about having a spectacular ministry rather than having a sincere heart. 13 If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. 14 Either way, Christ’s love controls us.[c] Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life.[d] 15 He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves. Instead, they will live for Christ, who died and was raised for them.

    16 So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! 17 This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!

    18 And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him. 19 For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. 20 So we are Christ’s ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, “Come back to God!” 21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

  258. street says:

    Dear brothers and sisters, I urge you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to join in my struggle by praying to God for me. Do this because of your love for me, given to you by the Holy Spirit.

    And my message and my preaching were very plain. Rather than using clever and persuasive speeches, I relied only on the power of the Holy Spirit.

    18 But that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice. 19 For I know that as you pray for me and the Spirit of Jesus Christ helps me, this will lead to my deliverance.20 For I fully expect and hope that I will never be ashamed, but that I will continue to be bold for Christ, as I have been in the past. And I trust that my life will bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die.

  259. street says:

    20
    “A Redeemer will come to Zion,
    And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,” declares the Lord.

    21 “As for Me, this is My covenant with them,” says the Lord: “My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your [a]offspring, nor from the mouth of your [b]offspring’s offspring,” says the Lord, “from now and forever.”

  260. street says:

    Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.

    I have restrained my feet from every evil way, That I may keep Your word.

    The sum of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting.

    22
    “Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
    For I am God, and there is no other.
    23
    “I have sworn by Myself,
    The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
    And will not turn back,
    That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
    24
    “They will say of Me, ‘Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.’
    Men will come to Him,
    And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.

    But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’”

    need new hearts, new Spirit, new Master.

    who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

    22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart, 23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

    “All flesh is like grass,
    And all its glory like the flower of grass.
    The grass withers,
    And the flower falls off,
    25
    But the word of the Lord endures forever.”

    And this is the word which was preached to you.

  261. Beloved says:

    The Natural Condition Of The Sinful Heart
    By Colin Smith, Oct 25, 2018
    “Who am I, O Lord God, and what is my house, that you have brought me thus far?” 2 Samuel 7:18

    David was the youngest of eight brothers. He was a shepherd, born into an unremarkable family in an obscure village called Bethlehem. David was not born a prince. Being a king was not his by nature. There is no path by which a hard-working shepherd gets rewarded by becoming a king. This was not the result of his own hard work.

    David ponders all that God has done for him. And here is something that all of us can do. “Lord, you have brought all that is good into my life. You took hold of me, where I was and as I was, and you brought me into what I am and where I am. And without you, none of this would ever have happened.”

    David could have taken credit for what he had done. He might have said, “Why has so much blessing come into my life? Well, I was the one who killed Goliath! And I honored the Lord by not taking the life of Saul when I could easily have done so. And I have been very patient!”

    The natural condition of the sinful heart is to take credit for all that is good and to blame God for all that is bad. Prayer will never flow from a proud heart that credits self and blames God. Prayer flows from a humble heart that remembers what God has done.

    Examine your heart and your prayers to see where you might be taking credit for what is good and blaming God for what is bad.

  262. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you for that writing just above, Beloved.
    And I did misunderstood you, LOL, you were really impressed by her being relieved! You were not relieved yourself. That really does illustrate that you can misunderstand easily. That is why I am so concerned about the evangelical christians who so easily misunderstand, and make judgments, like people judge Andy, without really asking, what did you meant to say, and discuss this respectfully, as Brown did with Andy. That is a respectful thing to do.

  263. foreverblessed says:

    An explanation of the difference between the Mosaic law and the Law of Christ, I found on God at eventide, October 21

    “”
    – Absorb Good

    The only way to eradicate evil is to absorb good. This is My story of the seven other spirits.

    This story was to illustrate the vast difference between the Mosaic Law and My Law. The Pharisees and the Elder Brother were the observers of the Mosaic Law.

    You have proved this in your own life. To pray that you may resist temptation and conquer evil is in itself but useless.

    Evil cannot live in My Presence. Live with Me. Absorb My Life, and evil will remain without.-
    “”

    The story is found in Matthew 12:45, Luke 11:26, where Jesus explains what the difference is in living like the pharasees, and living like Jesus designed it for us.

    This living according to the Law of Christ, is a Life being absorbed from the Risen Christ. It is a Spiritual Life, the bread of life, the Living Water, the Way. This is the New Covenant. It is totally new, and the old is gone.

    I myself really do know how scarry that is, letting go of the Old Covenant. Not having them as a guideline in life, but Jesus Himself. And the words Jesus said, they are the New Law, not in the sense that I had them being legalistic, but they are my guideline.

    Letting go of the Mosaic Laws, how uncertain, how will you not sin? And that is all a matter of not trusting Jesus enough. When I was growing up in that fundamentalistic church, there was a great falling away from the church in the seventies. Those who went out said: The Kingdom of God is within us, we should not focus so much on the Kingdom of God coming on earth, but let God work in our hearts. It is not hte law of Moses, but the the words of Jesus we have to follow

    And what also happened, was a lot of laciviousness, people following there own lusts. And there I made the conclusion that when you let go of the law of Moses you fall back into sinning. That was in the seventies, now I know that I made a wrong conclusion.

    It is the submission to Jesus, of a broken and repentent heart, a heart trusting Jesus that matters.

    And Jesus will guide through life. Having the guilines of His Words, and the explanation of His words by the apostles, and the explanation of what is written in the OT, what it really meant to say, beyond the letter of the words.

  264. foreverblessed says:

    Beyond the letter of the law, beyond the letter of the words.

    The fear of falling into sin, when you let go of the 10 commandments!
    This is the problem too, that Pooh has with not taking Gen 1 literal. She thinks that if you do not take Gen 1 literal, then what else will you not take literal.
    It is the first step into falling into unbelief, that is what she is fearing.

    But to her consolation: There are thousands and thousands of christians who for decades have not taken it literally, and yet still believe in the Resurrection of Jesus, and still believe in the Power of that Resurrection as a Power to change their lives from inside out.
    So no, it is not the first step on the ladder of taking the whole story of the bible as a …. whatever.

    So yes, no fear of losing your faith.

    And if that is not enough an answer, ask God yourself.

    And this is the whole point of Andy, we should know what the essence is of the story of the bible,
    THe Resurrected Savior, that is what we have to wrestle with, that is the great issue, and then all the stories in the bible are secundary.

    What is primary: The Resurrection, living in faith in that lifechanging fact, we know experiencing this new Spiritual Life in ourselves transforming us.

    what is secundary: the rest of the bible, the stories, the Festivals, the Sabbath, the creation story, the Deluge, the violence. The king with thousand wives.etc etc

  265. Mart DeHaan says:

    As mentioned above, it is the New Testament that tells us God has made the covenant of Moses obsolete (i.e. in all that leads up to and is stated in Hebrews 8:13).

    It’s a life-changing thought wrapped up in the good news that— in Christ, we are not under the law but under grace.

  266. SFDBWV says:

    Hebrews 8:10 KJV Hebrews 8:13 KJV Hebrews 10:16 KJV

    Grace will always trump Law, but there is more to the story.

    Steve

  267. SFDBWV says:

    I don’t like repeating myself over the same subject and especially playing table tennis with Scripture.

    The fact that the old Mosaic Laws of sacrificing animals has no place in Christianity is not a new revelation and the understanding that Jesus fulfills the sacrifice that God demanded “once and for all” is essential to understanding why there was a blood sacrifice in the Mosaic Law in the first place.

    Christian either Jew or Gentile alike no longer is required to sacrifice animals in order to obtain forgiveness from God, Jesus has accomplished that task “once and for all”

    But morality as given from God is etched into our hearts by God. As well as the concept of grace and forgiveness.

    Jesus didn’t change any of that He reinforced it.

    And to say that the heart and principal of what God wants from us is null and void, out dated, obsolete and no longer relevant I cannot agree with.

    When told to live a holy life then makes no sense.

    I don’t see any new revelation from what Andy has to say, but in my spirit there is a giant red flag that says something just isn’t right, beware and tread cautiously.

    So that is what I am going to do, before I abandon 2000 years of tradition so easily.

    Steve

  268. Mart DeHaan says:

    Steve, am wondering whether you are referring to the backstory? Just read your text links and am going to go back and read your earlier comments now.

  269. foreverblessed says:

    Hebr 8:13
    the original greek says:
    In saying new, He has made obsolete the first, that then, (is) near vanishing.
    Biblehub

    I was thinking, that is how it goes in a christian life: it takes a while before we realise that the Old Covenant is gone. We start out with the 10 commandments, nothing wrong in still keeping them, and we think we have to keep a day rest, not the 7th day, but still…

    it is near vanishing…

    the New Covenant makes a greater impact on us, if we see that Jesus is our Lord, that His Words are our guide, then…

    we also see that we indeed do keep the 10 commandments when we follow the Words of Jesus, we do not break them at all!
    But this is what Andy is saying, everything that is commanded in the OT, we should see as through eyes of Jesus, and the teaching of the NT.
    That’s why I think it such a brilliant step, that God could get a very Old Covenant enthusiastic man like Saul, to be touched by the Revelation of Jesus Christ in his heart.

    Nothing in all of his past, trying to live according to the OT laws, matched what he now experienced in Christ Himself,
    Christ in you, the mystery that was long there, since the beginning of the world.

    “the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”

    Col 1:26-27

  270. foreverblessed says:

    Once I heard a sermon on the internet, about the New Covenant, the pastor said to the audince:
    Nobody of you keeps the 10 commandments.

    the audience was like: Wow, what is he judging us about?
    Then he said, the 4th commanded talks about the sabbath, and that is literally the 7th day. Nobody keeps that command literally. (well, I add, accept for those few who do)

    (talking about taking words in the OT literally or not.)

  271. Mart DeHaan says:

    Steve, I think we were both writing at the same time :-)…

    I’ve since gone back and caught up on all of your earlier comments. I see that you are considering not only the importance of the backstory but also the future (Revelation) as well. It’s interesting that, at the same age, we’ve come to read the future narrative of the Lamb Judge differently (while both believing in the future restoration of Israel.)

    I don’t blame you for resenting my summary of Stanley’s book and YouTube material. I just wish we had a chance to sit down and talk face to face about what Paul wrote in the third chapter of his second letter to the Corinthians. No one came to the New Testament with a greater commitment to the law than Paul.

  272. Beloved says:

    Forever I was rereading comments and found your question interesting from a few days ago so looked it up and found this, which I didn’t know was messianic, so interesting!!:

    Question: “What does it mean to kiss the son (Psalm 2:12)?”

    Answer: Psalm 2 is a psalm of David that presents two “ways” similar to Psalm 1—the way of human rebellion versus the way of submission to God. Psalm 2:12 at the conclusion of the psalm says, “Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him” (ESV). The phrase kiss the son is important, both in its original context and in its significant messianic implications.

    In its original context, the phrase kiss the son refers to an act of submission or obedience. God’s anointed king of Israel (Psalm 2:2) was David. By the time we get to the end of the psalm, someone greater than David is in view: Psalm 2:10–12 says, “Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear and celebrate his rule with trembling. Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.” The hearers of this psalm were to “kiss his son” or submit to the Lord to keep Him from becoming angry with them. The NLT translates the phrase as “Submit to God’s royal son,” and the NASB says, “Do homage to the Son.

  273. street says:

    the law
    the law is our tutor. when our tutor is finished she doesn’t hang around. who repeats a grade after the material is mastered? we move on to the next and the next and the next. you could repeat this your entire time on earth. we are to grow, mature and produce fruit. the law is a spring board, but we have no strength power or skill to use it properly. then a new creation, a new Spirit. over time a better understanding. we could keep the law and use it improperly, but that was not the purpose of it. the law puts on paper what love would look like. but we know paper can not love. we are told there is a Spirit in the law on paper. given a new Spirit to understand God and the world we find ourselves. i am pretty sure we know we are sinners. we are told the greatest command is to love God with all our heart soul and mind. we are also told we are to live by every Word the proceeds from the mouth of God. thinking the law is written on our hearts, in Spirit and Truth. truly a work of God. yes we treasure the law because it is God’s Word. it is His Word and Spirit the conforms us to the image of His Son by faith hope and love. and the greatest of these is love, selfless strength power and skill that come from God.

    thinking after the spring board a pool of grace and mercy. what love is this? a love to delight in. by faith hope and love, soon to be seen in all it’s Glory, Face to face. we do not lose heart because our hearts are in heaven with Him, our Redeemer.

    sure we can get out of the pool and back on the spring board. as i grew up, i noticed the spring boards were taken away. and taken for a reason.

  274. Beloved says:

    Interesting street. Springboard like training wheels on a child’s bike, or rails on a child bed? They serve a good purpose as they are for protection. To take them off before a child is ready is disastrous. However, when the time is right and either climbs over them or they don’t hit the ground ( wheels) then the child’s inner confidence takes over. Jesus is our inner confidence that we no longer need the rules- laws because as the prophet said, they are written on our hearts!

    We no longer need help getting into the water, it’s by invitation! All who are thirsty, come!

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