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Looks Like Might Rain on Monday

A lot of what I’ve come to believe about God and country, Jesus, the Bible and how to interpret it, sin, politics, war, law and order, the future, forgiveness, and the better part of wisdom— could get me in a lot of trouble and cause conflict, hurt, feelings, disillusionment, alarm, loss and regret.

The best relationships and treasured friendships I have are fragile— requiring a good deal of mutual humility, respect, consideration, and good judgment about what to say and not say in moments of disagreement, hurt, confusion, fear, and loss.

I could be wrong, and maybe I’m missing something. But I’m guessing you could say the same about yourself.

A good sense of humor sure comes in handy doesn’t it. Learning to laugh at ourselves seems to be as important as knowing when to cry.

So how in the world are we going to find our way forward? What in heaven’s name are we going to talk about, do together—to make best out of what we’ve been given?

How’s the weather up your way? 2 degrees F here. Looks like might rain on Monday.

Just say’n… so to speak… :-)….


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249 Responses to “Looks Like Might Rain on Monday”

  1. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning Mart, I just came in from plowing a fresh 5 inches of snow and am waiting to get a cup of coffee. It is 13 degrees here after being in the below 0 to single digits all night.

    It had to warm up to snow.

    Steve

  2. Mart DeHaan says:

    Hope you get a chance to enjoy that cup of coffee, Steve. While you were out plowing, I had a couple of cups while reading a few chapters of Max Lucado’s book “Grace…more than we deserve, greater than we imagine.” So good!
    Mart

  3. poohpity says:

    Oh Mart just to funny. Yep if one can not discuss anything else without some type of emotional charge then weather is always the best way to go. lol Right now in cloudy Mesa Az it is 56 degrees f and will reach 72 degrees f about noon until the rain comes.

    I heard Max Lucado give a talk on that book. It was really good and hit just the right notes. His voice seems so patient, gentle and reassuring.

  4. bullwinkle says:

    Steve, I have always admired your dedication to country, community and most of all to your family. To me you are a great example of of what Jesus meant when he said:“Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.”
    Thank you for all that you do.

  5. poohpity says:

    Mart, I was just thinking how do we know when we talk about any of those areas how someone else is going to react to what we say. I know how someone will react to name calling, being criticized or being put down but what if one is just talking about a subject then how do we know how they will react?

  6. poohpity says:

    Mart, did you think that you would receive on this topic out of three votes, 2 negative and just 1 positive?

  7. Hugger4U says:

    Good morning from the Oregon coast at 52 degrees with rain today. Our nights are chilly in the 30’s. I enjoy the crisp morning walks around our place walking the dog and getting my body in shape to endure our golden years. Better late than never.
    God Bless you all in the coming seasons of life you will be facing.
    Love and Hugs,
    Hugger

  8. bubbles says:

    Good afternoon.

    We are currently at a balmy 34 degrees after a -10 wind chill yesterday! Two pairs of cardinals visit the feeders for breakfast along with two fat brown sparrows, a chickadee, tufted titmouse, and an occasional blue jay. Neighbor cats are padding about in a skiff of snow. Two dogs next door went out for their restroom break and were interested in a cat; now they are back inside.

    Thankful for this warm day! Hope everyone up north is safe and warm.

  9. street says:

    So how in the world are we going to find our way forward? What in heaven’s name are we going to talk about, do together—to make best out of what we’ve been given?

    in Jesus we trust
    in Jesus we live
    not of the world
    humble and exalting Christ
    He must increase “I” must decrease
    talk or worship
    serve or be served
    give as freely as it has been given to you
    the first shall be last and the last shall be first

    just thinking….abiding would be better way forward

    thinking of the alter of incense in the temple….outside the vale …..it is Most Holy.

  10. jeff1 says:

    Life is a River

    As I went out walking, on a fine summers day.
    Through hills and the valleys, I soon lost my way.
    ’till I came to an old man, kneeling down by a stream.
    Gazing into the water, like he was lost in a dream.

    In his hand was a picture, he clung to for life.
    His eyes filled with tears, as he tried not to cry.
    He looked to the heaven’s and started to pray.
    In the quiet country silence, I could hear the man say.

    Life is a river, I’ll go with the flow.
    And where it will take me, the Lord only knows.
    I’ll miss you sweetheart, your kindness and love.
    But I know one day, we’ll sail away on God’s ocean above.

    He said now young man, your a stranger to me.
    Could I bother you kindly, for your company.
    Today I am thinking, of a time long ago.
    And I need to tell someone, of a girl I loved so.

    It’s forty-two years today, since Rose took my hand.
    And proudly I lived life, her husband her man.
    ‘Till only last week son, God took her away.
    As I kissed her softly, these words she did say.

    Life is a river, I’ll go with the flow
    And where it will take me, the Lord only knows
    I miss you sweetheart, your kindness and love.
    But I know one day, we’ll sail away on God’s ocean above.

    And with that the old man, sent me on my way
    And sat by the water, I’ll kneel for the day
    I look at the river, starting out on it’s life.
    It’s where I feel close to, my beautiful wife.

  11. SFDBWV says:

    Good morning friends, what a difference 24 hours can make. It is 28 degrees with a prediction of a high of 40 today.
    Predictions, well the predicted weather for yesterday’s storm was either less than one inch to officially 6; we ended up with just over a foot.

    Thank you Mart, I did finally get one cup of coffee, but soon returned to dealing with weather issues. It was a fast paced morning.

    Also Bullwinkle please allow me to humbly thank you for your kind words, such things are as the Word says a balm to my spirit. They are appreciated and well received.

    Mart has broached a subject that is very true, relationships take work and a conscious effort. If we didn’t care about the feelings of another then it seems right to say whatever comes to mind. However if we were concerned the least bit about hurting or upsetting even a stranger we might take a few moments and “think” about what we are about to say.

    Here in this venue we are not only given the opportunity to edit, but in some cases just delete. How often we would like to have taken back what we said out of being hurt or angry. Here by writing out our thoughts we do indeed have a little more control of what we may “say”.

    Our guide should always be everything we have learned from Genesis to Revelation. As we have learned all of Scripture is about Jesus the Messiah, and so He is our guide.

    I retire now to the warmth of the easy chair with coffee and a cinnamon roll to watch some TV with Matt.

    Blessing to all today.

    Steve

  12. poohpity says:

    Several people have referred to this time in which we live a time of cupcakes or snowflakes when disagreeing or having different opinions, which is how we learn or move forward to expand our horizons, seems to be a unsafe zone unless one only talks about the whether in fear of upsetting someone, some how or in some way. They even have safe zones on college campuses because people get so upset from differing views, the old debates are no more unless we are only around people who think and believe like each other, it is called group think. So rather than control our own reactions to what we hear now is a time to control the speech of another even if we have no idea how what we say may affect someone else.

  13. poohpity says:

    oops weather not whether, lol, messed up again.

  14. SFDBWV says:

    Please don’t think what I am about to say is complaining, it is not, only explaining.

    Each morning here Matt wakes angry. He is angry because he is still alive and his nightmare continues. It isn’t what he says as much as what I say that will temper the mood and begin to have a more enjoyable morning. It is as Mart said a very fragile balance of words and feelings. I have come to learn since I can’t control Matt’s I must carefully control mine. Words that is.

    Sometimes when he gets into a rage of anger I simply hug him and tell him I love him. Usually he then will say, no you don’t you just want me to be quiet. He will laugh and so will I.

    This is an extreme situation and not usually a situation in public normal life, but if we use that same line of thinking we can defuse most any situation or disagreement that may emerge.

    It has been discussed here often by multiple people that what is missing on BTA is the lack of physical interfacing. I suppose if we did this by way of skype or some similar internet communicating it could bring the whole experience to a more personal level.

    It is said that the eyes are a window into the soul, here we don’t get to look into the eyes of another as they say whatever it is they feel led to say. We don’t get to hear the tone of voice or their body language. And then actual face to face contact with another we get to sense the persona that emanates from them.

    Strange though how that persona comes through even in the tone of writing. Much like reading a book and getting into the “head” of the author.

    There is a difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable, between debating and arguing.

    The tone I see of this topic is that we need to treat each other in a more friendly basis, concerned with the feelings of each other, more than appearing to know more or insist on being right.

    Time for me to attend to Matt, so I leave with this piece of information, it started out cloudy and overcast, but the sun is now making an appearance. Where does that leave us with the darned dirty rat the “groundhog”?

    Steve

  15. poohpity says:

    Actually there is no difference in debating and arguing. One side argues their point while the other argues theirs. Again rather than looking at how we each contribute to the turmoil ourselves it is easier to point out how someone else is at fault when each one brings fault of their own. It is only when we don’t take differing views as personal attacks and use SELF CONTROL in our responses that the conversations become civil. But the minute we point a finger at someone else then the civility leaves the room. Then the process starts of name calling, criticizing the person rather than disagreeing with what is said then harboring bitterness and hate because of differences.

    Yes we can see the persona of a person by what they write! Do we blame others for our own reactions and make excuses for responding negatively or do we accept personal responsibility for the things we say or do?

  16. SFDBWV says:

    I love you too pooh.

    Steve

  17. poohpity says:

    I can fully see where Matt’s anger comes from. If I were his age and stuck in a town of a few hundred people of which the average age is around 65 plus and all the modern conveniences are several miles away and I get car sick, doing the same old things day in and day out, I would not only be angry but it would drive me insane.

  18. SFDBWV says:

    No one knows better than I why Matt is angry at life pooh, and no one hurts more for him than I, except, he himself.

    One of the most damaging things Matt hurts over is the absence of friends. Not just friends, but from all the people he was friends with. Nearly all have abandoned him to his “fate” and went on with their lives.

    He also struggles with a love-hate relationship with God as Matt blames God for a great many things, a source of very delicate discussion between he and I.

    There are a great many other things Matt suffers, pain, memory loss, both long and short term. Worse of all he has no control of his life. Which at this point is best as he tells me many times a day if he could he would run upstairs get a gun and kill himself.
    Traumatic brain injury is not like being paralyzed, it is a crippled mind. Matt stays in between being totally here and not all the time.

    Something people here don’t know about you pooh is that you have a big heart and your love and concern for my family and I is genuine. And like all of us who have a big heart it is easily hurt.

    How we react to such pain is up to us, but as Viv said love hurts.

    With such a bright sunny day now upon us, I am sure that rat seen his shadow, though here he would have to dig out of the snow to.

    I hope pooh you have a good day.

    Steve

  19. SFDBWV says:

    Mart asks a very good question in how are we going to go forward, what are we going to talk about, given the talents and life experience we each have, how can we continue “together”?

    We have to find a way to discuss good theological Biblical questions without it always turning into a melee or shouting match.

    Interesting that early Christianity was once called “the way”.

    I have several CD’s of Chuck Missler’s Bible studies and one of the things he would say at the beginning of his commentary was always “So let’s have some fun…”

    I personally think Bible study can be fun as well as enlightening and even entertaining. As we are all different, we see everything from a different perspective and sharing that perspective can either bolster our understanding or maybe question it.

    If Mart can’t see a way forward for BTA, BTA will end.

    Bullwinkle wanted to reintroduce some civility to the group. I agree fully. Being polite and showing consideration is a good beginning.

    Christianity is about rebirth and renewal, about forgiveness, hope and love. All done in the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

    So what do you say, let’s have some fun and join together for some group thinking about Mart’s subjects.

    29 degrees with a projected high today of near 50. Officially the groundhog (rat) did not see his shadow so we can all break out our lawn furniture as winter is almost over. I take the plow off my truck in May and not until.

    Steve

  20. bubbles says:

    A debate does not have mean words included. The connotation of the word argument carries unkindness, shouting, name calling, etc., and never solve anything. If anyone says otherwise, that is fine. Just a thought I have and I may not be right.

    Perhaps we could have an agreement where people would read posts and delay answering for a period of time. I think what happens is responses are sent off without calming down. Not always, but sometimes arguments ensue when parties involved care much about a topic. Sometimes I think we need to let the other response go; let them say or think what they want. .. even when we think it is wrong. That is one kind of civility. I need to learn this also.

    Blue sky and warm weather was a blessing yesterday. Looks like it will be again today. Hopefully that will be the last extreme cold snap of this winter for all of us here.

  21. bullwinkle says:

    Enjoyed time with most of my siblings yesterday evening. At times we laughed until nearly in tears discussing our times growing up in a small town.
    Life is short and it is amazing how many people that were part of our lives have either died or we have lost contact and none of us knew what had become of them.
    I agree that it’s difficult to judge the tone of what is said on this blog because we cannot interact, merely react to what is printed. Just my opinion, but often times I believe people are simply looking the same issue from a slightly different perspective and when broken down, there is far more agreement than strife, but some have already taken offense.
    Looking forward to the time when we can meet each other in the presence of the King. Things will be clear then.

  22. poohpity says:

    Thank you Steve.

    If I am not mistaken which I could be how many times in the Bible was different false teaching, misinformation, hypocrisy, comparisons to animals, wrong motives, excuses, blame often confronted and corrected? As one preacher put it; “The fact of the matter is that so much of what Jesus said makes people uncomfortable. In a day when the “cult of niceness” has permeated the church, and politeness and tolerance has taken a front seat to truth and the fear of God, we need to be reminded that the Savior of the world often corrected the errors of his enemies in a less than winsome manner. Many times He also corrected His disciples in shocking and uncomfortable ways.” Nicolas Batzig (Feeding on Christ, How Jesus Confronted and Corrected Others)

    Not only that but the disciples often confronted, corrected each other as well as other believers and had many warnings in the new church in many ways to stop things after they got started or warnings before they ever started. Most of Paul’s letters were confronting problems in the newly formed church which still happen today as were Peter’s and John’s, etc.

    It may not seem civil when it is you being corrected but think about it, do you hate the one who warns you not to touch a hot stove when it is in our own best interest not to do so? How do we ever learn anything new unless someone shares it? There are people who put time and talents into learning things and then share what they have learned. Since when has that become a crime or wrong?

    But we can always go back to sharing the insignificant which in no way helps us move forward in learning but it does help us stay stuck in knowing the same old things which never transforms our minds by growing. (Romans 12:2 NLT)

    After the Civil War it was Christian’s who brought Universities and Colleges to our shores. If we happen to get a bad grade do we slam and blame the teacher or try to learn where we were wrong and correct it for next time? Failure is our best teacher. Robert Quillan says, “Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument is an exchange of ignorance”

  23. poohpity says:

    bullwinkle I would agree that there are times when we are talking about the subject that people can be talking in agreement but “saying” it differently but the minute different “perspectives” comes that changes the essence. However how often do people really talk about the subject at hand? Semantics at times are important, IMHO. :-)

    It is raining here so got to pull out the boat to get to church. 62 degree F with 75% humidity. It also says their perspective is 30% chance of rain, lol, Id’s say 100%.

  24. poohpity says:

    bullwinkle, if you were talking about me being offended by what you said, I was not in any way I just disagreed with the perspective part.

  25. phpatato says:

    Good morning

    Bubbles, I am in agreement with your definitions of debate vs argument. I think perhaps, this sums it up even better…..

    A debate involves the use of structure, and sophistication. There must be good flow of words, and you have to convince your audience to support you.

    Arguments are often filled with illogical and emotional speaking, with no structure. Arguments are usually between single persons. They tend to be very short, and often end with a salty person. Debates however, end with a polite handshake, and there are qualified judges to give results.

    On this blog however, what I see is more of an attempt at expressing our thoughts, opinions and our life-changing love for our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (thanks to those who have fought to give us this freedom we tend to take for granted). Sadly, our opinions are then, on any given day, challenged which turns expressing our thoughts and opinions into an argument as defined above.

    If there was a moderator on this blog (and how sad is that, that a Christian blog needs a moderator), who would delete the comments at the first hint of rudeness, then this blog would be given the structure it is so badly needing.

    When there is a group of people who have come together, for whatever the occasion is, there is always always that special one who will butt in line, bully, or just walk around chiming in on everything that someone has to say. That is human nature, it has been tested over and over again to be true, which is why in fact, there are such things as moderators, bouncers, security guards, hall monitors, playground supervisors and yes even policemen for traffic control.

    To move forward within this coffee circle….I think we need a moderator because never once, since I’ve been coming here has there ever been a topic that ended in a handshake and well wishes.

    Frostbite watches and warnings are ended in the east but I see extreme cold warnings issued for the west. Usually what is west moves east because of the jet stream. But for today, those warmer temperatures are to bring freezing drizzle and periods of freezing rain for this afternoon and tomorrow. As for that rat, Steve, I chuckled at that – my calendar has never failed me yet. From Feb 2 to Mar 21, there is always 6 1/2 weeks till spring…even when that rat (groundhog) tells me different. :-) So winter it will be.

    Pat xo

  26. poohpity says:

    I often do not get offended by disagreements it actually, to me, spurs on good debate, I do not take it personally.

  27. poohpity says:

    Pat, just read your thoughts and opinions. Aren’t there times when we can impose OUR OWN thoughts, perspectives and opinions as the realities of others when they are just our own selves coming through? If the moderators were to delete comments that did not follow the guidelines how many would be deleted for not staying on topic as they do on ODB which is a wonderful place to comment because most do follow the guidelines because their comments have been deleted so they learned from their mistakes.

  28. phpatato says:

    Good morning Pooh

    I believe you are missing a point on this topic.

    Mart realizes that there is contention here all the time. What he is hoping that, instead of imposing your/our/mine opinions on others, why not just express them. Not imposing. Not in a know-it-all fashion. Not in a rude tone. Not.

    And should there be one who challenges what thoughts and opinions others have, then why not at least show some mature and intelligence by discussing the weather which is always common ground.

    I believe Pooh that Mart is giving us permission, with this topic now posted, to GO OFF TOPIC just to establish peace again. A regrouping. A cool off period.

    I understand that you truly are a guideline type of person. You have been given the dubious title of “Blog Police”. But what I am suggesting is that Mart appoint a moderator, should he not want to have to babysit us himself. His moderator would show no favourites, who understands how blogs can become, who isn’t afraid to take the flack from a person whose comments were deleted and has become offended by, a person who is fair, loving and FUN. (Steve mentioned fun and yes fun is sorely lacking here). And should the topic veer onto a different path…so be it. Why? Because he has been court appointed by one of the most respected, loving, intelligent judges in the business – MART!

    Yes, I fully agree, that when we – me and you – start getting our comments deleted for being inappropriate, surely we have the smarts enough to see that we should either shape up (change them) or ship out (leave the blog completely).

    There is no room anywhere in a blog where thoughts and opinions are being IMPOSED. That is a sign of a full-of-yourself person and their comments should be deleted. Politely state your thought and if no one picks up on it to say something about it, simply let it go. The world does not revolve around one persons thoughts and opinions as much as there are those who think it does.

    So in summary…”on topic” to the wind. If there is nothing nice to say, change the topic to the weather.

  29. poohpity says:

    Pat shouldn’t we ask Mart what his point is rather than assuming we know what he is thinking or what his motives are other than what he actually said? Just as it is wrong to assume and jump to conclusions about the motives of what others are saying, thinking without asking for clarification and listening? I am confused wasn’t everything you said jumping to conclusions and assumptions?

  30. phpatato says:

    And Pooh you are STILL at it!! Why.

    It is snowing here. Freezing rain is expected.

  31. SFDBWV says:

    I live in a unique place, only several miles west of me is a watershed divide whereas precipitation will flow either west toward the Mississippi river or east toward the Chesapeake Bay or the Atlantic ocean.

    My geography is shared with other small towns like this one and even a larger one in Maryland.

    The thing is from our little place if you go 20 miles either east or west from these towns you go downhill and drop in elevation over a thousand feet or more.

    The temperature difference is always 15 degrees or more from here to the lower elevations.

    We can have rain or snow when they have sunshine.

    If you ever look at the Weather Channel when they are predicting cold temperatures or snow for the north east you will see them drag a little comma down from Pennsylvania atop a strip of western Maryland and here on top of the Appalachian Mountain Range in West Virginia.

    Either side of us the weather is going to be milder.

    Strangely bad weather is something people here brag about. And yes true to human nature argue over who has the worst.

    One of my favorite one-up-man-ship stories is when a fellow I knew (he’s passed on) told me it was so cold that morning when he leaned his snow shovel up against his thermometer the mercury dropped down into the shovel handle and he didn’t know exactly how cold it got.

    I am so glad Mart was able to show our winter weather a few years ago when we got over 24 feet of snow that season. That was one for the record books.

    Matt is coming to the computer for a little relaxation and I am going to get dinner ready, lasagna.

    Blessings to all.

    Steve

  32. street says:

    Looks Like Might Rain on Monday

    was chatting with my son the other day. i told him i missed my calling. i should have been a meteorologist? no one expects them to be right, just sorta close.

    i hear love covers a multitude of sin.

    i hear forgiveness heals….the one who forgives.

    was thinking out loud with my son today, lack of forgiveness make us like the one we don’t forgive.

    why do we forfeit so much peace and joy?

    a way forward…….in Exodus they followed a cloud.

  33. poohpity says:

    I guess I misunderstood what Mart was saying because I thought he said to look at yourself(myself) to see where I failed by bringing this blog down with my responses or replies not what others are doing. Then if I can not even discuss things of importance with respect for one another, “So how in the world are we going to find our way forward? What in heaven’s name are we going to talk about, do together—to make best out of what we’ve been given?” then discussing something as unimportant as the weather is where I will find myself. No new ideas or thoughts about anything else but just the weather. Sorry but I have a brain and enjoy talking about all kinds of things; like God and country, Jesus, the Bible and how to interpret it, sin, politics, war, law and order, the future, forgiveness, and the better part of wisdom.

  34. jeff1 says:

    poohpity says:
    February 1, 2019 at 7:48 am

    Oh Mart just to funny. Yep if one can not discuss anything else without some type of emotional charge then weather is always the best way to go.

    How can I not get emotional charged when considering Jesus in my life!

    Hope for All Nations

    The world is so hungry, but we hold the bread of life.
    Surrounded by darkness, but we know the name of the Light.
    In a day so divided, we know the love that unites, Jesus, Jesus, He is…
    Cho.
    Hope, Hope, Hope for all nations.
    Hope, hope for every need.
    Hope, hope for the life that’s been broken.
    He’s always been, forever He’ll be.
    Hope, Hope, Hope for all nations.
    Hope, hope for every need.
    Hope, hope for the life that’s been broken.
    He’s always been, forever He’ll be.
    V2.
    Grace that can mend the marriage that’s too far gone.
    The arms that are bringing the prodigal hearts back home.
    The truth for the lonely, that you are never alone.
    Jesus, Jesus, He is…
    Cho2.
    Hope, Hope, Hope for all nations.
    Hope, hope for every need.
    Hope, hope for the life that’s been broken.
    He’s always been, forever He’ll be.
    Bridge.
    The same great power that raised Him from the dead is living within us.
    The Church will rise when kingdom dreams again.
    Nothing can stop us.
    The same great power that raised Him from the dead is living within us.
    The Church will rise when kingdom dreams again.
    Nothing can stop us.
    We are declaring…
    Cho.
    Hope, Hope, Hope for all nations.
    Hope, hope for every need.
    Hope, hope for the life that’s been broken.
    He’s always been, forever He’ll be.
    Hope, Hope, Hope for all nations.
    Hope, hope for every need.
    Hope, hope for the life that’s been broken.
    He’s always been, forever He’ll be our hope.

  35. SFDBWV says:

    In the world of coal mining, at the mine is a place for the oncoming shift of miners to dress for the job, and for the very dirty miners who have ended their shift to shower and dress into their street clothes before going home.

    It is called a bath-house.

    I tell you this so that you don’t get confused when I tell you a story about being in the bath-house and thinking it an entirely different place for an entirely different purpose.

    Anyway this story I have told before, but because I am getting older I can get away with repeating myself.

    My story is of Charlie Wilhelm. He was a miner operator (that means he operated a mining machine) for over 40 years. The thing was is that he was a terrible miner operator and could never keep on centers. When anyone would try and tell him to correct his errors he would get furious and his answer was always the same, “I’ve been operating a miner for over 40 years.”

    Yes he had 40 years of experience, but for those 40 years he had never gotten any better than his first year. He just continued to repeat his errors. And if I may add, was very good at being a bad operator.

    Also as you may imagine Charlie was very opinionated about every subject, very.

    One afternoon as he and I were preparing to get ready for work there in the bath-house we were talking about some current issue in the news and the conversation was going nowhere. So to just end it I said, “Charlie you are absolutely right, I am completely wrong, thank you for straightening me out.”

    Without even catching his breath Charlie came right back with this retort, “Now wait a minute Steve you have a good point too.”

    Charlie just liked to argue.

    So disagreeable was Charlie that when his nephew with the same last name was hired and ask if he was related to Charlie, his nephew lied and said no.

    I have told this story so that perhaps you may understand that some people just like to argue and if you can recognize that for what it is, it just isn’t important anymore what they want to argue about.

    Just ignore their peculiar behavior, work together, get your shift over and go home where there is less arguing and more comfort.

    22 degrees and since I can’t see stars in the dark sky above, I guess it’s cloudy.

    Steve

  36. jeff1 says:

    Posted by Mart DeHaan
    February 1st, 2019

    A good sense of humour sure comes in handy doesn’t it. Learning to laugh at ourselves seems to be as important as knowing when to cry.

    I was talking to my Rector and telling him how my son infuriates me because he thinks he knows it all and my Rector replied with a twinkle in his eye “Yes, and there is nothing as infuriating as a person who thinks they know it all, unless of course, you are the person who thinks they know it all.”

    If I could be you, if you could be me
    For just one hour
    If we could find a way to get inside
    Each other’s mind

    If you could see you through my eyes
    Instead of your ego
    I believe you’d be, I believe you’d be surprised to see
    That you’ve been blind

    Walk a mile in my shoes
    Walk a mile in my shoes
    Yeah, before you abuse, criticize, and accuse
    Walk a mile in my shoes

    Now there are people on reservations
    And out in the ghetto
    And, brother, there, but for the grace of God
    Go you and I

    If I only had the wings
    Of a little angel
    Don’t you know I’d fly to the top of a mountain
    And then I’d cry, cry, cry?

    Walk a mile in my shoes
    Walk a mile in my shoes
    Yeah, before you abuse, criticize, and accuse
    Walk a mile in my shoes

    Walk a mile in my shoes
    Walk a mile in my shoes
    Yeah, before you abuse, criticize, and accuse
    Walk a mile in my shoes

  37. poohpity says:

    Good song Viv!

  38. jeff1 says:

    I struck up a friendship with a Roman Catholic as he was working on my behalf, and he said to me once, who among us, would swap our cross for another’s and I have reflected often on his words and come to the conclusion that it is better the devil I know than the one I don’t and by that I mean that though I struggle with my own demons be they real or imaginary I have come to trust God through it all.

    Trusting God does not mean I do not struggle but that I believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

    ‘Faith is the Substance of all Things Hoped For’ and in Christ we are triumphant whatever the weather.

  39. foreverblessed says:

    Yes, Steve, you say: just ignore it.
    I think that Mart wants to say: Just have some humor. To me it seems to mean: Just laugh about it!

    I have been having a pause: what is the sense of staying here?

    Discussing bible is for me kind of useless, someone comes in and says it is wrong teaching, see “blowin in the wind”.
    Talking about the Holy Spirit.
    The God of Jacob, being God the Holy Spirit.
    ” False teaching”

    I cannot laugh about that.
    Andere Mart does not want to jump in, and act as a moderator.

    So, talking about the bible is impossible here, without a moderator.

    The weather, that’s ok, just to keep in touch.

    Praying for each other?
    When I was considering stopping here, Steve wrote a heart wrenching story about Matt.
    ( And how gracefully you responded to a comment to your story, wow,
    “petje af”
    That is in Dutch: taking cap of, in reverence. Is that some humor added?)

    Matt!
    Praying for him is one of the main things that is important for me.
    If I go, I will not hear about him anymore!

    Steve is saying, we do not fight against flesh and blood!
    He showed how his fight is, every morning!

    Praying!

    Spiritual songs!

    Then Jeff is persevering in posting songs, spiritual songs, that speak so well about the heart of the Gospel!

    “…Forever
    He’ll be our hope”

    I was reading Isaiah 40:1-31 this morning

    Praying that, verse Isaiah 40:28-31, over Beloved.

  40. poohpity says:

    Steve if that guy was not good at his job why did they not fire him because I thought that miners had to depend on the person next to them to know what they are doing to prevent a catastrophe from happening?

    I would like to tell a story about my parents neither had a high school education and as my dad moved up in his field he needed to learn certain new things one of which was algebra. It was a required course in high school for college entrance so he would sit with me as I did my homework and asked for the reasons that equations were figured out as they were and I shared it starts with rules as the foundation to go to the next step, pretty soon he was reading my books and learning for himself. Both were entering a world they had not known that as he went from a general lineman to the President of a power company found they needed to keep up with learning so they could have an intelligent conversation with peers, so they continued to read and read and listen to grow. The conversations got deeper and better as they grew then they were not embarrassed about their lack of education in a world with others that had been educated.

    No one knows everything with the exception of God but we can learn about several things. Some master those things and some learn and can have an intelligent conversation about art, science, politics and even God. Those people can sit down with just about anyone and have a conversation listening, learning and sharing if they have read something that fits right in.

    Communication is an acquired skill that takes time to learn but the one thing that James pushed is how much we can learn from just listening and being slow to get angry which are very important parts of any communication skills. But on a blog where we are to think together about a subject sharing different ideas on that subject is what I thought BEEN THINKING was about, at least it used to be. Not everybody is going to think alike so disagreements are fine and are a normal part of any discourse.

  41. foreverblessed says:

    Isaiah 40

    27
    Why do you complain, Jacob?
    Why do you say, Israel,
    “My way is hidden from the Lord;
    my cause is disregarded by my God”?
    28
    Do you not know?
    Have you not heard?
    The Lord is the everlasting God,
    the Creator of the ends of the earth.
    He will not grow tired or weary,
    and his understanding no one can fathom.
    29
    He gives strength to the weary
    and increases the power of the weak.
    30
    Even youths grow tired and weary,
    and young men stumble and fall;
    31
    but those who hope in the Lord
    will renew their strength.
    They will soar on wings like eagles;
    they will run and not grow weary,
    they will walk and not be faint.

  42. poohpity says:

    You know Mart used to jump in on conversations then he was slammed and accused of playing favorites when he agreed with someone so he stopped because it brought pain to the one he agreed with in the subject.

  43. poohpity says:

    This week on Discover the Word there is a great lesson on this very subject. One heart/One mind

  44. poohpity says:

    It seems Mart also disagreed but rather than press the point said he would like to sit down with them to talk about whatever the lack of understanding was about.

  45. SFDBWV says:

    Pooh your question of why didn’t the company fire Charlie speaks loudly of your simple lack of understanding coal mining, coal miners and especially the coal mine union, the UMWA.

    Don’t take that as an insult, unless you live here in “coal country” no one can understand the mind of these miners.

    Simply stated it is almost impossible to get fired.

    Your remembrance of your father learning along with you reminded me of my own father. He was very well read and very intelligent so when I began speaking of things in the Bible he didn’t like not knowing, so after I would leave he would get out the Bible my mom had handy and read up so he could keep up.

    Never having been raised in a Christian home, he was never a Christian, but did accept the Lord weeks before his death.

    Foreverblessed it always pleases me to read whatever you have to share. We speak different languages, live in a very different culture, and yet can come together in our being Christian. How marvelous.

    Your speaking of my sharing Matt’s struggles warms my heart, thank you so very much for your love and prayers for him. There was a time when he first came out of his coma and was home here with me that he said he could actually hear people praying for him. He doesn’t remember that now, but somewhere in his spirit it is remembered.

    I think that the sharing of our life experiences around Marts subjects is like a continuance of the Book of Acts. God is still working in people’s lives and especially in the lives of His Church. It is what can make this place very special and very powerful for Christ.

    I am glad for whatever reason that you have decided to remain here with us, thank you for your kindness and compassion.

    I think Viv would make a good Choir Master, praise music, like all praise chases the devil away.

    Steve

  46. poohpity says:

    Steve, I know I did not understand that is why I asked but being a child of a union member I know how they work. My dad served on the board of I.B.E.W. 769 and was also a trustee. They had to fire people off that certain job site but they could work on another because their work was so dangerous if they could not depend on the guy next to them they could die working with high voltage power lines so that was why I asked. They did not get fired from the union but just that particular job and people could skip over them on the books with a bad history.

  47. poohpity says:

    There is a vast, vast number more things that I am ignorant of then the things I do know.

  48. SFDBWV says:

    Once again Pooh your comment is a reminder of my dad who loved to say, “what “we” don’t know would fill a lot bigger book than what “we” do know.”

    Thanks for the memory.

    Steve

  49. jeff1 says:

    Yes, I have to say that music, prayer and poetry are what has worked for me when I struggle with my demons.

    I learned that from a very early age and it has stayed with me into adulthood.

    I would also say that I have leaned on the faith of others during periods of psychosis and depression when God seemed far away as during some psychotic episodes I believed God had abandoned me and it was my friend who reassured me that God would not leave me and that it was a spiritual attack I was suffering and God would be with me through it.

    I have four cushions in my bedroom bought to me by friends and they say the following:

    Friends are stars that twinkle in our heart.

    A friend is one of the nicest things to have and one of the nicest things to be.

    A friend is someone who knows all about you and likes you anyway.

    Friends are like stars. You don’t have to see them to know they are there.

  50. street says:

    no moderator???????

    no Word of God ?????

    no Spirit of God?????

    be still and know Jesus is God.

    is being born again different from being empowered by the Holy Spirit?

    empowered to do what?

    is Jesus enough?

    Romans 8:28
    And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

    Romans 8:32
    He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

  51. street says:

    steve thinking about the story of your son being upset and you hugging him and telling him you love him. you just want me to be quite! sounds like Christ clinging to us, wanting us to have satisfaction contentment peace joy. let us not be quiet in our adoration worship thanksgiving in Spirit and Truth by Faith. whatever you did to the least of these you did it to me.

  52. bubbles says:

    My neighbor was a miner as far back as I can remember. When he would work over time, the mines, I suppose, would make a large ham sandwich and put a giant moon pie in the lunch. He would bring this home and give it to his daughter and me. His wife would half the ham and make two sandwiches for his lunch.

    The UMW runs deep in the veins of miners and their families for certain.

    Today was like springtime. What a blessing to see clear blue sky and sparkly sunshine!

    The stars was brilliant early this morning; they always make me stand in awe of God.

    Love everyone here.

  53. street says:

    thinking about the mine union and marts previous post about a mountain that eats souls. this profession was the reason for occupational safety and the beginning of many fraternal insurance organizations. a strength in unity of shared joy and sorrows.

  54. foreverblessed says:

    There are a lot of readers to this blog, right?

    Can I ask you one thing this morning:

    Do you want to pray with me for Matt, the son of Steve?

    Isaiah 64:1
    “Oh that You would rend the heavens and come down, that the mountains would tremble before You”

    Oh, our Father in heaven, rend the heavens, come down and look on the wretched state of Matt, and give him relief!

    We pray in Jesus name, for the sake of Jesus,
    For He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniguities:
    the chastisement that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.

    In Jesus’name we pray,
    Amen

    Thank you for joining me in prayer!

  55. foreverblessed says:

    Last week this bible verse of Isaiah 64:1 was on ODB,January 29 “Rip the heavens”, and I had the urge to share this with you all on this site, but had to think about it, pray about it.

    What are we here for?
    People sharing their lives, and this story of Matt is just heart wrenching.
    Oh God that You would rend the heavens, and come down!

    Why not pray together in great earnesty?

    Yearsw ago, I went to Mainz in Germany, there is a big church, Stephanskirche, and they had asked Marc Chagall to make stained windows, for the memory of the peace between Germany and France.
    He made a lovely set of windows, depicting the story of the bible, Genesis, Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, and so on, to David with his lyre. Even the new Jerusalem he depicted. That is aweful too.
    Every picture is very high in lenth, as the windows are small width but high, very high…

    Now about the story of Abraham, there is a picture of Abraham having put Isaac on the altar, but above him is shown an angel, that comes down, with great haste, with a lamb in his arms.
    (The hight of the windows comes in no as handy)
    The way he painted the haste…..
    You get the feeling, the angel is JUST in time…

    Oh God that You would rend the heavens and come down, now for Matt, and loosen the bonds that bind him, and set him free!
    In Jesus Name!
    the Name above all names
    The One Name by which we are saved!

  56. jeff1 says:

    WE ARE BROKEN

    I know you’re hurting your heart needs healing,
    Let me dry your eyes I know your feeling;
    Like the sun will never shine again,
    Like the pain inside will never end;
    Sometimes it takes a little faith to mend.

    We are broken to become more beautiful,
    Tried by fire to shine like gold;
    We are shattered to free the diamonds in our souls,
    We are broken to be whole.

    Love let you fall, now you’re in pieces,
    And your thoughts are scattered, what are the reasons?
    Oh, but time will work as medicine,
    And you’ll find your wings to fly again;
    Higher than you’ve ever been.

    We are broken to become more beautiful,
    Tried by fire to shine like gold;
    We are shattered to free the diamonds in our souls,
    We are broken to be whole.

    Yeah, we are broken to be whole.
    We are broken to be whole.

  57. SFDBWV says:

    Thank you Foreverblessed for your prayers and efforts for Matthew, he and I both appreciate your love and compassion.

    I’ve just came in from feeding the critters, it is densely foggy with still 3 inches of snow on the ground and 42 degrees.

    As Bubbles mentioned yesterday was indeed a very spring-like day and very appreciated.

    And yes Foreveblessed, God has and will always show up just at the right time and though tears may endure for the night, joy comes in the morning.

    Steve

  58. bullwinkle says:

    Forever, thank you for your powerful prayers for Matt. I am sure that many, including myself are joining you this day.

  59. cbrown says:

    Forever, Thankyou. Matt,praying for you and your family. Love in Christ, Chris

  60. jeff1 says:

    Where No One Stands Alone

    Once I stood in the night
    With my head bowed low
    In the darkness as black as could be
    And my heart felt alone and I cried
    Oh Lord, don’t hide your face from me

    Like a king I may live in a palace so tall
    With great riches to call my own
    But I don’t know a thing
    In this whole wide world
    That’s worse than being alone

    Hold my hand all the way
    Every hour, every day
    Come here to the great unknown

    Take my hand, let me stand
    Where no one stands alone

    Take my hand, let me stand
    Where no one stands alone

  61. foreverblessed says:

    Our Father in heaven,
    Hallowed be Your Name,
    Your Kingdom come
    Your will be done
    on earth as it is in heaven.

    Give us today our daily bread.
    Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one.

    Father in heaven, we pray this in unity, on this blog, over us, but especially over Matt!

  62. SFDBWV says:

    Mart starts off by telling us he, like the rest of us, has very definite opinions about just about everything.

    However he recognizes it isn’t always in the best interests of friendly conversation to share them and especially insist on them among people.

    I think friendship may hold a little different approach as most of us who have what we may call close friends, share in our views.

    We are “close” friends because we feel more comfortable around them and more often than not enjoy sharing the same likes and dislikes with them.

    However that same closeness doesn’t apply when we are in a room full of people who we may know, but whom we are not necessarily trusting our inner most thoughts and feelings with.

    Such an openness takes special trust. Once that trust is violated it also is too often irrevocable and may never be offered again.

    Such a shield or wall doesn’t allow for open honest discussion to ensue as we tend to protect ourselves.

    So here we are. In this venue we can either be friends and trust that our thoughts won’t be attacked, or just acquaintances and protect our feelings by not caring how our thoughts are received or outright protecting them through aggressive behavior.

    We can be real or pretentious, wear a mask or expose our souls.

    The choice as well as the challenge is ours.

    It has taken me all morning to write this as I do have a lot to do all morning and I often write in between duties. Yesterday and early this morning has been quite a challenge. I have learned that such challenges are miracle grow for my own spirit and leave such things to being the will of God and so thank Him for them.

    Thank you Foreveblessed for you fervent prayers and efforts on all of our behalves.

    35 f and wet after a night of drizzle and dense fog.

    Steve

  63. jeff1 says:

    I believed for a great part of my life that it was only Protestants and Catholics that differed greatly because I was raised in an environment where there was great hatred for each others religion.

    I have had to separate the fact from the fiction because those in power had manipulated the system to their ways and used both Protestants and Catholics like pawns in their pursuit of power.

    I have learned not to trust those in power because they have told me what I needed to hear and the truth has been far from their minds.

    I had a dad who seen through all the murkiness because he looked to God rather than to men for direction and his outlook and attitude in life was very different to his fellow country men.

    If I am cynical today it is because I have found that honesty is a virtue no longer practised and sadly that is true of Christians as much as it is of non Christians.

    I trust God today because life has taught me that I cannot trust anyone else.

    Without trust there is no unity and I have lived in a divided country long enough to see the fruitlessness of division.

    For myself now in my later years learning to trust again isn’t coming easy as I have seen the hatred and violence that was caused by the division.

    Whom do you trust when the people you spent your life believing have been seeing you as a gullible fool all your life and the sad thing about is that they were right for I did not see through their manipulation and if it were not for having a dad who did I doubt I would be any the wiser.

    While it hurts that others will use you when you are gullible it has strengthened my faith in God and so while others used me to their own ends God has strengthened me to His.

    If I respect another’s view then I will agree to disagree but I must first believe they are entitled to hold that view whether I share it or not.

    I have to believe that I might learn from another whose views are very different to mine because they are coming from a different background, culture and belief system than mine.

    Trust opens up doors that may otherwise stay closed but I have seen what mistrust does which is why I would rather be gullible in trusting than a closed book on not to.

  64. foreverblessed says:

    Dear Steve, starting this earnest prater for Matt, is an andere from God!
    Last night I felt attacked by the evil world, and I was praying: oh no, God, please protect us. The darkness may yet grow darker.
    But we hold on to You!

    You are still thee highest King, like no other!
    You are our Savior, no one else can save us.

    You are our Deliverer! Our Healer!
    Our guide, our Sabbathrest!

    None like You, do not hide Your face from us, neither from Matt!

  65. foreverblessed says:

    Dear SteJeff has Britten here that when things wereld rough in her head, someone had advised her to pray the Lord’s Prayer.
    Last week I shared it here, and then I found the power of speaking these words! What a freedom came!

    And singing spiritual songs!
    Keep it up Steve, and Jeff! And all of us here!

  66. poohpity says:

    Let’s say there a person you really like and they say some things that seems really odd to you and are untrue but because you like the person you brush it off continuing a trust in them and/or make excuses so that one’s belief system is not jarred to fulfill your belief in that person’s wisdom. For an example the followers in cults they have so much trust in the leader if that leader says the world is going to end in three days even though you have suspicions that it is not true but because your love and belief in that person is strong one will even drink the Kool-Aid to show loyalty. That is an extreme example, lol.

    Then the opposite is also true if there is a person you do not like so well and that person shares truth and things that make sense but because of the dislike it shades and challenges the beliefs about the person that one holds which is what they say can not be trusted nor does anything they say have any merit.

    That is called “Cognitive Dissonance” which is a prime example of what is going on in our country right now. It seems also to be the reason that not many problems get solved because when beliefs and attitudes get challenged it causes disharmony and confusion so one usually goes back to what they think they knew or believed even if it is leading them in a wrong direction.

    Changing attitudes and perspectives is something that the Lord is very familiar with and does in people’s lives. We can use Paul as an example he went from persecuting Christians, to being one. That can happen to us too when we are not so set in our ways we can look at people or circumstances through different eyes or hear them with different ears. Disabilities can become special abilities in other areas, looking at what one can do rather than what they can not do, looking for the worst in others rather than the best, etc..

    One then could have conversations about a plethora of different topics even with disagreements and still maintain respect, humility, consideration and good judgement all depending on whether one has had an attitude adjustment which would be the new life that has been gifted to us by Christ or just living the same way the flesh has always taught us to do.

  67. SFDBWV says:

    Yes pooh after reading all of the commentary you just put out, which was exhausting (little friendly smile) it can come down to this simple comment.

    If you are truly a friend you can overlook a great many things and remain friends.

    I have Mormon friends, Watchtower friends, agnostic friends and atheist friends, I choose to be their friend in spite of whatever theological differences we may have, and they make the same choice.

    As for what is going on in our country and I may add the world, it is the rise of an intolerant unforgiving spirit and it is sweeping across the land like a wildfire. That is my view and I’m sticking to it. (more dry humor)

    Steve

  68. poohpity says:

    Steve, that was not the point or meaning I was trying to make of cognitive dissonance.

    But it is true that we can know people’s faults and still be friends or not or just be acquaintances but the bottom line to me would be because I have so many faults of my own to have empathy or compassion for faults of others just shows who really has my heart. We can show the actions of love to even our enemies and be living like the Lord would like us to live in harmony within our communities. People are accepted more by like minded people in their groups and others are seen as intrusions if they are different but everyone has faults, failures and shortcomings. The problems seem to come when we do not think we have any of our own.

  69. poohpity says:

    Cognitive Dissonance is more like if one was raised as a Democrat and their belief system has always been based on the “D” by someone’s name no matter what they say even if it hurts someone and is not factual it is right because a Democrat said it. So if someone who is a Republican has a very good idea just because they have an “R” by their name then anything they share will have a preconceived notion it is wrong even if it is beneficial.

  70. poohpity says:

    Just like Paul was brought up thinking like a Pharisee so when he heard the teaching of Jesus he considered it blasphemy so he ended up persecuting those who followed “The Way”(Jesus). It is hard to change attitude and thinking that is so ingrained into our thought processes(cognitive) which causes disharmony or resistance(dissonance) to learning anything new.

  71. street says:

    i don’t think it is thinking per say or training but being completely dead to God and Truth. granted we develop patterns or habits apart from God while dead to God. after new birth we are taken on a journey/growth in earnest. paul spoke of being transformed by the renewal of the mind in Romans 12. sure getting soiled in the market place daily is as constant as gravity. we are also told of daily washing. the thing paul said is great gain is godliness with contentment. thinking the corruption of this world leaves only one place for contentment…..the present of God. the whole earth is filled with His Glory. need new glasses :)

    paul planted apollos water, God caused the growth.

    been thinking about this verse in the Bible not by power not by might but by My Spirit says the LORD. thinking power/flesh and might/ blood. even though theses are the chosen instrument that God chooses to work through. we are also told they can not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. we are also told of being saved spirit soul and body made perfect for God’s Glory.

    thinking we are change by the death of Christ by dying with Him and being raised up with Him. when we die with Him all things are made new. people are blessed in Christ. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.

  72. street says:

    had a dream last night. i usually don’t remember them when i wake up. was standing on a shore with water running by like a river. i could see three men on the other side they each had a spear. they each threw their spears at me and missed. i picked up the spears but could not do anything with them. nor could i cross the barrier between us. sorry mart it’s a little off topic, but it’s certainly not about the weather.

    —to make best out of what we’ve been given?
    a living sacrifice. thinking of the alter the Lord our banner.

  73. poohpity says:

    All of those who are in Christ Jesus are given special gifts or talents to serve.

    1 Cor 12:8-10

    Word of wisdom
    Word of knowledge
    Faith
    Gifts of healing
    Miracles
    Prophecy
    Distinguishing between spirits
    Tongues
    Interpretation of tongues

    Romans 12:6-8

    Prophecy
    Serving
    Teaching
    Exhortation
    Giving
    Leadership
    Mercy

  74. foreverblessed says:

    Last night I went to a housegroup of my church, someone had asked me to explain what the Feasts of Leviticus 23 were.
    He had asked that a longe time ago, but I had to ask Jesus, how I should present that.

    This is just off-topic, just like you dream, Street, Pray for protection, Rob 6:10-19.

    But we had a great discussion, it centered more around this:
    We are under the New Covenant, we who are believers in Christ.
    And how far does that go?

    The topic Mart brought up, about Andy Stanley.
    Unhitched from the Old Covenant.

    But that topic is gone. I am just sharing about what happens in my life.
    Just recently I talk with my mother about this, she has a hard time in reconciling with the fact that they joined a fundamentalistic church in 1965, and took all their children into it with them. A great social club it was, a cult.
    Just talking about this is healing. To hear how my mother wrestles with this! She knows God was always with her, but how coulde she have made such a mistake?!

    We worship a God who takes our mistakes and turns them into a blessing.

    We can share that here!

  75. foreverblessed says:

    Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed be your name,
    Your kingdom come
    Your will be done
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us today our daily bread.
    Forgive us our debts
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one.

  76. foreverblessed says:

    The idea was that the Lord’s prayer should be first

  77. poohpity says:

    Believe it or not it is 34 degrees F here this morning with a high of 57 predicted. My hunch is the winter visitors never expected this nor did I, lol. My heater went on and I have a blanket wrapped around my shoulders, bbrrrr. I guess it is better at times to talk about things that are innocuous. :-)

  78. jeff1 says:

    SFDBWV says:
    February 6, 2019 at 10:10 am

    As for what is going on in our country and I may add the world, it is the rise of an intolerant unforgiving spirit and it is sweeping across the land like a wildfire. That is my view and I’m sticking to it. (more dry humor)

    Has the world changed or is it just how I see it! When I was a child I thought like a child but I have to accept that life changes my expectations and my view of the world.

    I was raised to trust authority and yet today I find it was people in authority who let me down so it turns out that trusting made me gullible and yet it is part of who I am because I believed what I was taught by my elders.

    How forgiving was the world when my mum was a child and ostracised because of her illegitimacy so in some areas the world is more forgiving but that has created its own problems for society and how we see reflects whether it affected me personally or not.

    To my thinking I have a very limited view of the world while God has a full view of it.

  79. SFDBWV says:

    A few miles up out of town there are several people who like to live apart from everyone else.

    One such fellow is Kevin McDonald. I have known him most all of his life as well as his mother and three sisters, his dad died when Kevin was very young.

    Kevin’s nick name is “Bear” as he is a big hulking fellow and has always sported a beard since he could grow one.

    Across Kevin’s life he came to a place where he hated his mother and sisters and would have nothing to do with them.

    When his mother died and I told him of her death, he said so what, it’s nothing to him.

    Kevin worked for me for some time and of course he and I share friends. His friends always tried to help him as have I.

    A few years ago he began showing the effects of alcoholism as well as diabetes. He denied suffering of either and refused any offer of help from any of us.

    Last week several of his friends approached me to see if in my official capacity I could somehow force Kevin to get help.

    I called his oldest sister who only last year lost her husband to cancer if there was any way she or her sisters could force the issue.

    Sue (his sister) and a niece went up to see if they could talk some sense into Kevin, though he at this point was unable to get out of bed and walk he still cursed at them and told them to leave. They did leave crying.

    Three days ago the same friends who keep concerned for him once again called upon me to see if I could force some help, of course there is nothing I can do to make a person get help against their will outside of court action.

    He finally called one of his friends two days ago and agreed to go to the hospital, as the idea of death finally sank in to him.

    Yesterday they amputated both of his legs below the knees in an attempt to stop the spread of gangrene and certain death.

    If Kevin survives he faces quite a lot of problems, the least of which his lifestyle of living as a hermit and unattached from his family.

    It is my hope that the girls all step up and show Kevin what love and forgiveness looks like and that family healed, even at such a high price.

    Friendship and love are more than words.

    44 degrees and very foggy.

    Steve

  80. jeff1 says:

    God can seem far away when loved ones are suffering as I struggle to understand Gods’s reasons.

    My own faith must be strong to offer friendship and love to others otherwise I will fail to comfort them as they need it.

    Sometimes I just feel completely out of my depth in doing that and other times I seem to do better but a lot depends on another’s acceptance of friendship and love or their rejection of it.

  81. street says:

    suffering of any kind is difficult
    weakness and even failure is difficult to see
    but God …………..passover the red sea and the cross when God goes to work and makes away when there is no way.

    Proverbs 8:
    33
    Listen to my instruction and be wise;
    do not disregard it.
    34
    Blessed are those who listen to me,
    watching daily at my doors,
    waiting at my doorway.
    35
    For those who find me find life
    and receive favor from the Lord.

  82. foreverblessed says:

    That Proverbs 8:33-35 is great
    Blessed are they who listen to me
    Waiting daily at my doorway

    Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on a rock
    Matthew 7:24

    It seems that Jesus is saying that some effort from our side is needed:
    -Put into practice-

    When I was in young, in that fundamentalistic church, I would try to do ITE myself, and asked the Holy Spirit to help me.

    Now, now I know that I am under Grace, I pray:
    Jesus, You say that I must love my enemy, here is my heart, all that is not in accordance to your will, I give to you,
    But please, I need Your love!

    It is a decision of my will, to put Jesus’s words into action, and the realisation that I miss the capacity, that I throw myself at the feet of Jesus, please fill me.

    Waiting for the love to fill my heart.

    It is in the attachment to Jesus, that I am sanctified. Made clean, purified.
    The old man that needs to be killed.
    That is also needed here on this blog:
    Not reacting according to the inclinations of the old man.
    Patt has proposed that already, I believe:
    First seeking God’s face, getting quiet before Him.

  83. jeff1 says:

    Are weakness and failure difficult to see or more difficult to take responsibility for!

    As a child growing up in my country I believed what I was taught from my culture and religion but it has taken me a long time to see that others used that and manipulated it for their ends.

    I cannot trust someone because they tell me they are trustworthy and yet I have to vote for people who are telling me just that.

    It takes years to find out that they have deceived me/us because power and money are what motivates them and not the welfare of the people.

    Many people feel let down my authorities who say one thing and do another.

    My dad brought me up to respect and obey those in authority for they were appointed by God as he seen it and therefor worthy of my trust.

    Yet today, I read this quote from C. S. Lewis and see that Prophecy was one of his many gifts.

    “The greatest evils in the world will not be carried out by men with guns, but by men in suits sitting behind desks.”

    I doubt very much that I see myself as God sees me and there is great mercy in that for unless I have made no mistakes in my life be careful of stones that you throw.

  84. poohpity says:

    Yes Viv, seeing ourselves the way God sees us with love, value, worth, meaning and purpose then it MAY BE easier to look at others the same way He does us/them. That might change how we respond and act towards others I would hope.

    It seems only when we cooperate with the Holy Spirit can we practice the teaching of Jesus. Then we can respect diversity of thought and get along even when we disagree because we are learning what Jesus meant when He said, “Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.”

    Paul taught, “Therefore I, a prisoner for serving the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling, for you have been called by God. Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other’s faults because of your love. Make every effort to keep yourselves united in the Spirit, binding yourselves together with peace.” Eph 4:1-3 NLT

    Then he, Paul, goes on to tell of the things that should bind us together; “For there is one body and one Spirit, just as you have been called to one glorious hope for the future. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, in all, and living through all.” Eph 4:4-6 NLT

    Paul goes on to teach that even though we are one in the above ways yet we each have been given different gifts to be used to bring us to unity of faith.

    Jesus came for the Kevin’s and me’s of this world not those who think themselves righteous. Jesus said, “I have come to call not those WHO THINK they are righteous, but those WHO KNOW they are sinners and need to repent.” OR at another time said, “But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” Humility!

    So Viv, we should be careful about throwing stones because we all live in glass houses, lol, a little Confucius humor. Make a great day filled with hope. :-)

  85. poohpity says:

    Col 2: And now, just as you accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord, you must continue to follow him. 7 Let your roots grow down into him, and let your lives be built on him. Then your faith will grow strong in the truth you were taught, and you will overflow with thankfulness.

    8 Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ. 9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

  86. poohpity says:

    Holy Spirit rain on and reign in us today, do not wait until Monday.

  87. street says:

    Are weakness and failure difficult to see or more difficult to take responsibility for!

    it is a brutal awaking of what i really am apart from God. God commands me to repent like john the baptist. the work of a Christian is to believe and come to Him, Jesus. the presents of Christ is the only thing that will change a person and this is by faith in Him. Jesus will tell some i never knew you. those words are just as true today as they were 2000 years ago. Jesus took responsibility for our sins at the cross and opens the way before God. i remember people testified that john,the baptist, never did miracles but every thing he said about Jesus was true. the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world. “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” Jesus.

    thinking about a performance based life. the treadmill set for failure vs a love based life. a night and day approach to theology. love never fails similar to love always believes. love is eternal, no law against it. love, best seen in Christ. the pure in heart shall see God. waiting in hope. walking by faith. loving by Christ example. living in grace.

  88. street says:

    taking responsibility for sin. one of the things about taking responsibility for sin is the seeking of justice. the impossibility for us to to make restitution for debts that can never be repayed. forgiveness, pardons the offender and releases them from the debt. in God’s economy of righteousness and justice there still must be a death or shedding of blood to hold up justice/righteousness. Messiah/Christ, Jesus, our righteousness and justice. the One Who loved us and did not run out on us. yes we were separated from God by sin, and rightly so, He would have destroyed us in His presents if it were not for this temporal separation. brought near by the blood of Christ Who is raised from the dead. given a Helper! given His Word! given a sure Hope! given all things even the hard things of this world to conform us to the image of His beloved Son. God really is serious about bruising the head/headship of the serpent. to be His and His alone. there is no other. to Him be Glory Honor Praise and Thanksgiving Forever.

  89. jeff1 says:

    Even though it is Jesus who makes us right with God I have to take responsibility for my sin because it is what God would want me to do i.e. remorse as it is that which shows I am sorry for my sin against Him.

    If God sees the heart then He must see that the desires of my heart are to change otherwise its just words.

  90. foreverblessed says:

    Steve, I wanted to thank you for telling the story of that old man, and his sisters. May God be with them, with them all, and bless them. They need it very badly.

    Responsibility, Jesus died for my sins, and for yours, but there is an action required, we must see that it is sin what we did, and want to stop it. Like being irritated, God does not the stopping for us, He shows us, that we should not be iiritated, and says: Come to Me, but He doesn’t stop me getting irritated, He waits, till I come to Him. It is the training of the Holy Spirit, He will let us go throught the same test again and again, letting us meet irritating people, untill we see it:
    That it is not good to be irritated. To start focussing on Jesus, and blessing the irritating person.

    Like God trained Jacob. jacob’s sin was a little different, he was a self-willed man, he willed what God wanted, (that jacob would have the birthright and not Esau) But Jacob did not wait for God to handle it, but took matters in his own hand and cheated Isaac. After that, when Jacob fled, God blessed Jacob, He didn’t remprimand him:”What were you doing?”But that was because God knew where Jacob was going too:
    His trainig was coming.
    Jacob going to Laban, who was a greater cheat then Jacob was.
    Till Jacob learned not to cheat, to get his way, but to rely on God Himself.
    The training that the Holy Spirit gives us:
    The God of Jacob – God the Holy Spirit

    God is overall, and supreme, but He wants to take us with Him, He wants us to see as He sees. He wants to change our will, so that it is like His will.
    He does not want us to become robots.

    But He made us in His image,that we are changed into His likeness.

    You are right Jeff, God looks at the heart, the desires of the heart, that they are changed, that they are purified, that they are made holy.

  91. foreverblessed says:

    Street said:
    “taking responsibility for sin. one of the things about taking responsibility for sin is the seeking of justice. the impossibility for us to to make restitution for debts that can never be repayed.”

    that is so true! When we have hurt somebody, we cannot change that, we can only say that we are sorry, that we really regret it, but udo what we have done, we cannot.

    THis is so true.
    BUt….
    Jesus can

    Jesus can restore that what is gone wrong, He can make new, He can heal, heal emotions, heal bodies, heal souls.
    It is Jesus!

    Just wanting to be along thinking with you…
    BUt the point you made, made me really humble, we are nothing, we are so dependent on Jesus, working in us, and working in others to restore them.

  92. poohpity says:

    Being irritated or angry is not sin, it is how we react when we are irritated or angry that may cause one to sin, one way is by holding on to it and not letting it go by putting it into the hands of God. Eph 4:26 NLT

    foreverblessed, have you ever actually read the story of Jacob or only listened to what someone has said about it(starts in Gen 25:19)? God had told Rebekah before the twins were born that the younger would rule over the oldest. I am pretty sure Jacob was not God not even a close resemblance (John 4:24; 2 Cor 3:17)

  93. poohpity says:

    The birth right did not even mean that much to Esau for him to trade it for a bowl of stew. It wasn’t until much later it seems he began to care.

  94. poohpity says:

    But you are right forever about Jacob being the deceiver then he meant his match by another deceiver. We get what we give or we reap what we sow and what better way to learn that lesson than experiencing the consequences of our own actions.

  95. jeff1 says:

    God teaches us lessons but if I am not holding myself accountable then I will miss His intentions.

    I am thinking of my own country and how each side retaliated against the other and history tells us how that turned out.

    As Sir Winston Churchill said if we don’t learn from history then we are doomed to repeat it and it seems the same is true in my personal life as God doesn’t force me to learn from Him but it is His will that I do.

    God doesn’t just want to know me, He wants to change me and He won’t settle for a sticky plaster when I need major surgery and His greatest barrier in doing that is ‘me’; I get in His way, though I miss seeing that because I don’t know God as He knows me and why it is a lifelong struggle.

    When I hear people speak of their faithfulness to God I think of how they have got it the wrong way around as it is God who is faithful to me, as how many times have I not doubted or wandered from God, and yet when I come back with my tail between my legs He is welcoming as ever.

    Forever Friend

    Everybody needs a little help sometime
    No one stands alone
    Makes no difference if you’re just a child like me
    Or a king upon a throne
    For there are no exceptions
    We all stand in the line
    Everybody needs a friend
    Let me tell you of mine
    ——-
    CHORUS:
    He’s my forever friend
    My leave-me-never friend
    From darkest night to rainbow’s end
    He’s my forever friend
    ——-
    Even when I turn away He cares for me
    His love no one can shake
    Even as I walk away He’s by my side
    With every breath I take
    And sometimes I forget Him
    My halo fails to shine
    Sometimes I’m not His friend
    But He is always mine
    ——-
    REPEAT CHORUS:
    If you still don’t know the one I’m talking of
    I think it’s time you knew
    Long ago and far away upon a cross
    My friend died for you
    So if you’d like to meet Him
    And don’t know what to do
    Ask my friend into you heart
    And He’ll be your friend too
    ——-
    REPEAT CHORUS:
    He’s My Forever Friend

  96. bubbles says:

    Days are getting longer; sunsets have been beautiful this week. Thankful for sunshine today, and the warmer weather has been good. Thankful for this respite from winter!

  97. SFDBWV says:

    Being a “weather observer” officially, I have told the folks at the National Weather Service in Sterling VA often of a weather phenomenon that occurs frequently here.

    With a clear sky as the sun begins to rise in the winter it will often snow, sometimes putting down as much as a quarter to more inch of snow, but certainly enough to put some snow cover down.

    No clouds clear sky and snow.

    Today is one of those even more odd scenes whereas we have had constant snow flurries all morning, with a clear blue sky above.

    It is 14 f degrees up from 12 f.

    One thing is for certain nature doesn’t follow our understanding of how it is supposed to work.

    If nature is evidence of a Creator then once again our Creator also doesn’t follow our understanding of Him either.

    BTA is supposed to be a place where Mart and his friends can discuss a Biblical or theological subject together without expecting a consensus, but exploring varying views of it.

    If we can’t be open and honest about our thoughts, then under the threat of censorship the whole concept of round table discussion fails.

    I have religious and political views as well as philosophical and learned views of life. All are affected by my faith and my walk with God.

    Is our honest view of truth worth silencing because of the threat of offending?

    Or is the offence simply our not allowing another to have a differing view and then aggressively attacking them for it?

    I think, I hope, we all know the difference.

    Nearly 20 years ago while Matt lay in a coma an angel spoke to my hearing and told Matt how pleased “she” was for him, but looked at me with a sad silent expression.

    I have come to understand why, as my battles continue.

    Thank you for your prayers.

    Steve

  98. street says:

    looks like might rain on monday.
    was at a Bible study last nite and saw something that really got my attention.
    in the Old Testament the term atonement meant to cover or hid. then the verse to remove sin as far as the east is from the west. we are told in Hebrews of the perfect Sacrifice, Mediator, High Priest.

    i am thinking hiding something from God? not possible from mans perspective or strength. God also promises to forget. I will remember your sin no more. this is an intense and complete forgiveness on God’s part that is rest full/sure for all party’s. God speaks about entering His rest. Happy are they that find it.

    i will be the first to admit anger/self-righteousness problems with 4 letter words generously thrown in. yes they offend my bothers and sister. i wonder if the injustice or the failure offended them more? peace in all circumstance is truly a gift from God to be enjoyed forever. thinking of the song neil diamond sings, “say i love right out loud.” life in His presents. we do know Him by faith. both side now i think is the song. to me it a secular lament. blessed are the poor in Spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.

  99. jeff1 says:

    I can remember as a child when the seasons came in sequence and summer was summer and so on and so forth and that is how I liked the weather but I find that most people do not want the winter whereas I welcome all seasons.

    It seems that way in life as many want to cherry pick while I believe we have to take the rough with the smooth and be thankful for small mercies.

    Who doesn’t have difficulties in life in a complex world such as this one and that’s why I am thankful that it is in God’s hands as He has overcome the world that I am just passing through.

    I do my best and I expect that others are doing there’s and when I have off days I try not to burden other people with them but seek comfort from God as I have found that it is Him that can comfort more than anyone else and that’s as good as it gets in this world or that is how I see it.

  100. foreverblessed says:

    Dear Pooh:
    Jacob is the type for the self-willed man!

    The God of Jacob is God the Holy Spirit.
    The God of Jacob trained Jacob, by sending him to his own match!
    20 years at Laban it took!
    God has a long breath with us.

    Jacob does not stand for God!
    The God of Jacob stands for God the Holy Spirit!

    Just as the Holy Spirit trains us now, teaches us, one step at a time.
    The Beatitudes, Matt 5:1-12 one step, till it is learned, to the next step.
    Till we come to the place that we rejoice when we are persecuted.
    Rejoice! That means our old man has died! We are not afraid of the first death anymore!

    Street, we had a sermon last week about the tabernacle in the holies of holies, it was covered with blood.
    The blood that covers the tabernacle, and inside was the words of the old covenant. These are covered by the Blood of Jesus.
    We are now not under the Law, but under Jesus.
    As Paul said, he was not under no law, but under the law of Jesus.
    Not as a legalistic thing, but by the Holy Spirit, guiding us, training us.
    Joy, Godly joy, joy from heaven.

  101. street says:

    why people struggle.
    going back to the friday night Bible study. the story of a life guard waiting till the drowning person surrenders and gives up. yes difficult to watch, but you will wonder who is in-charge if there is still fight left in them.

  102. street says:

    yes forever i understand the shedding of blood. the part that got my attention was hiding something from God? or God forgetting? God forgetting my sin is one thing forgetting His love and mercy is another. thinking of the thief on the cross asking Jesus to remember him, his only hope.

    in eternity, to be known as the one who died with Christ, at calvary. the though of thinking others more important than self comes to mind.

    thinking about how the ground doesn’t remember what grew there after it is gone. dust doesn’t remember anything. would not allow His Anointed to under go decay.

  103. poohpity says:

    It would seem that most people are strong willed added in with rebellious which makes us the very people Jesus said He did not trust Himself to. The Potter allowing Himself into the hands of the pot. So Jacob/Israel can represent mankind as a whole.

    I have no idea what is meant by, “The God of Jacob stands for God the Holy Spirit!” The God of Jacob/Israel is the One and only true God. God can be represented in three ways/persons as Father, Son and Holy Spirit but it is the same One God.

  104. poohpity says:

    It would seem that most people wrestle with God as well when we want our way, done in our time and done how we want things done, I know I do. And just like most people there comes a time when we figure out doing things our way just does not work out well because we are very good at causing messes and usually need someone to help clean them up and turn them around for good.

  105. poohpity says:

    However still today it would figure that the messes caused by Abraham having Ismael instead of waiting for God is still causing messes as is the fighting between Edom and Israel.

  106. poohpity says:

    As you said forever, “Just as the Holy Spirit trains us now, teaches us, one step at a time.” He uses His own words to do that but how many take the time to read the guidelines found in His word? Psalm 119:103-105 NLT

  107. poohpity says:

    I was thinking street using the words like our sins are hidden from God might not be an appropriate way to put what happens to our sins because you are right nothing is hidden from God. So could we say instead that Christ atoned for our sins or made up for them in our place, so because of what Jesus did God removed those sins as far as the East is from the West. Psalm 103:12 NLT

  108. jeff1 says:

    Greatly Blessed, Highly Favoured

    Greatly Blessed and Highly Favoured*
    Imperfect but forgiven child of God
    Greatly Blessed and Highly Favoured
    Imperfect but forgiven child of God

    Standing upright on God’s good earth
    Count my blessings, great things He has done
    Fighting the good fight with the blessed assurance
    That the battle is already won

    Greatly Blessed and Highly Favoured
    Imperfect but forgiven child of God
    Greatly Blessed and Highly Favoured
    Imperfect but forgiven child of God

    {*Change Key}
    Greatly Blessed and Highly Favoured
    Imperfect but forgiven child of God
    Greatly Blessed and Highly Favoured
    Imperfect but forgiven child of God
    Child of God, I’m a child of God

  109. bubbles says:

    And Steve, something else about weather that is strange. . . the temperature will drop a few degrees right before sunrise. My weather understanding is poor, but it’s odd. God’s hand in nature is amazing; He must smile when we wonder at His handiwork. It reminds me how small I am and how big He is.

  110. street says:

    thinking about samaria and judah.
    thinking about catholicism and protestantism.
    not much difference in that God insist that all receive mercy.

    I will have mercy on whom I have mercy.

    Jesus, Lord and Christ.

  111. SFDBWV says:

    A restful early morning after Matt had his breakfast of chipped beef gravy, on toast with two eggs and two chocolate pop tarts as a side.

    I had coffee fed the critters gathered weather data and sent it in, it is clear with 07 degrees f.

    Looking at the picture of the bright red Cardinal I am reminded that I have 5 sets of our State bird feeding in my yard. They can’t be missed as they are easily seen.

    Then my thoughts wandered to the idea that they possess the colors red and black. For evolutionist’s animals that are combined with such colors are a warning to other animals that they are poisonous, deadly and are to be left alone.

    Yet these beautiful birds are the most polite of all the birds that visit the feeders. And unfortunately I have watched as goshawks have fed on some over my time of feeding the birds.

    Then again if you believe all you are told about animals they are supposed to be color blind, which makes no sense then as they being colored at all or colored red and black as a warning.

    Oh well I suppose it may be like my enjoyment of doing crossword puzzles, all of life including my faith being a puzzle that I enjoy working at solving.

    Hello Bubbles…

    Steve

  112. foreverblessed says:

    The shedding of the blood is on the atonement cover on the ark, and the ark was placed in the holies of holies in the tabernacle.
    Once a year the high priest would go in, and sprinkle seven times, on the atonement cover and in front of it.
    Leviticus 16:13-34
    In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place, because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins might have been.
    God washes our sons clean in the blood of Christ.
    Indeed, to me that is a mystery.
    Our sins are gone!
    Nowhere to be found!

    How can that be!
    God sees them no more!

  113. foreverblessed says:

    Psalm 103:12 as far as east is from the west
    Micha 7:18-19
    Who is a God like you,
    who pardons sin and forgives the transgression
    of the remnant of his inheritance?
    You do not stay angry forever
    but delight to show mercy.
    19
    You will again have compassion on us;
    you will tread our sins underfoot
    and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea.

  114. foreverblessed says:

    It is such a mystery what happened on the Cross.
    The movie, the Mask
    The mask wearer has tremendous powers when he wears the mask.
    At night.
    There is always the real bad guy in the movies. The bad guy had placed bombs in the night club.
    Our hero, with the mask on, sees the bombs, he opens his mouth wide open and puts the bombs inside and swallow them, in his belly they explode. You see his belly expanding…
    Jesus did that to our sons, the sin of the world, he swallows them, and then He dies!
    Swallow them, and they are gone!
    Such a mystery!

  115. foreverblessed says:

    To our sins, not sons,
    Sorry.
    Last night I was thinking: it was the ark, not the tabernacle, the atonement coverof the ark.
    Nobody made a point of it!
    Thank you!

    But even more than that: we live through His Life, His resurrected Life.
    Romans 5:10

  116. SFDBWV says:

    Foreverblessed I love your commentary. We have enjoyed the movie the Mask for it’s inane humor often.

    I too look for and see my faith, Christ, and the hand of God in art, literature, movies and everywhere in life.

    once again what we look for is what we find.

    Praying for you to have a wonderful Sunday.

    Steve

  117. foreverblessed says:

    Another mystery:
    God is One

    God the Father
    God the Son
    God the Holy Spirit

    The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    The God of Abraham, God the Father calls, who called Abraham from the land of Urr
    The God of Isaac, God the Son, the Son who provides, who saves us from our sins, the more who gives us His Life, so we can live. Everything we need we have in Jesus. 2 Peter 1:3

    His divine power has given us everything we need..

    You would say, that would suffice….
    God calls us, and God gives us everything we need!

    But no, God is called the God of Abraham, Isaac AND JACOB.

    God has to deal with self-willed man.
    Man,who wants to decide for himself! Even if what he decides is in accordance with the law of God, keeping the 10 commandments. But not being surrendered totally to Jesus.
    Here comes in the training we get from the Holy Spirit.
    He leads us into situations that teach us His Will, over and over again, untill finally we see, SEE, the light of the gospel non the thing that hinders us.
    My example was: irritation.
    To overcome that irritated way of reacting.
    Overcome!

    Jacob finally conquered his human inclinations, and yielded to God at Pniel.
    His will molded to God’s will.

    “Your will be done”

    Not as a defeat, but that we totally agree wholeheartedly agree with the way God sees it:
    Blessing irritating people!

    Or: Rejoice when we are persecuted!

    Rejoice in adverse situations!

    Because the Life of the Son of God flows through us, in faith,
    And makes us whole, and cleanses us!

  118. jeff1 says:

    How Deep the Father’s Love for Us

    How deep the Father’s love for us
    How vast beyond all measure
    That He should give His only Son
    To make a wretch His treasure

    How great the pain of searing loss
    The Father turns His face away
    As wounds which mar the Chosen One
    Bring many sons to glory

    Behold the man upon a cross
    My sin upon His shoulders
    Ashamed, I hear my mocking voice
    Call out among the scoffers

    It was my sin that held Him there
    Until it was accomplished
    His dying breath has brought me life
    I know that it is finished

    I will not boast in anything
    No gifts, no power, no wisdom
    But I will boast in Jesus Christ
    His death and resurrection

    Why should I gain from His reward?
    I cannot give an answer
    But this I know with all my heart
    His wounds have paid my ransom

    Why should I gain from His reward?
    I cannot give an answer
    But this I know with all my heart
    His wounds have paid my ransom

  119. poohpity says:

    The God “OF” Abraham, Isaac and Jacob does not seem to represent God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit it seems to be saying that God was the same God that Abraham worshiped as well as Isaac and Jacob which all believed for the promise of a certain land and blessing to one day settle in.

    God repeated the Abrahamic Covenant to three different generations: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were all given the promise of land, many descendants, and blessing. The Lord first calls Abram out of Ur of the Chaldees to the land of Canaan, establishing a covenant with him (Genesis 12:1–3). God reaffirms the same covenant with Abraham’s son, Isaac (Genesis 21:12; 26:3–4), and later with Isaac’s son, Jacob (Genesis 28:14–15). The Lord who established and ratified this covenant is rightly called the God “OF” Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    When God revealed Himself to Moses in preparation for bringing His people out of Egypt, He called Himself “the God “OF” Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” in Exodus 3:15. He also instructed Moses to identify the Lord by that name when speaking to the Israelites (verse 16). In this case, the name carries a couple of important implications. First, when God identifies Himself as the God “OF” Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, He clearly distinguishes Himself from the gods of Egypt in whose land the Israelites dwelt. Second, the reference to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob implies a reason for the exodus: the promise of land. God had vowed that the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would inherit a certain geographical area. God’s faithfulness and Israel’s blessing were directly tied to Israel’s possession of the Promised Land, and the name God uses for Himself harkens back to the covenant with Abraham.

  120. poohpity says:

    God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit existed as One before the world began. John 1:1 then God will send another like Jesus;

    And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.…

  121. poohpity says:

    To test Abraham’s faith God asked him to offer his only son as a sacrifice since God had said earlier that through his son all the offspring would be blessed through him. Which was also telling of the coming Savior of the World and if Isaac was sacrificed then there would be no offspring, so Abraham had to believe and trust what God had said or there would be no Jesus(Genesis 12:3). So that is not like God the Father or Son either.

  122. poohpity says:

    The Trinity is sort of like I am a mom and a daughter and a sister but I am just one person but to each person I have a different function while Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are distinct individuals with different personalities, totally separate and from different generations.

  123. street says:

    thinking about the weather.
    the God of abraham isaac and jacob narrows it down to One God. we have many religious people making different religions with different gods. to trace God through this obscure tiny nation that would bless the whole world! is a good place to start.
    thinking of building a nation/life without Christ will lead to building one with the anti-christ. we are told the weather by what we believe. heard something new today if you want to prove God then obey Him. sound advise. even if you disobey God will still keep His Word. thinking of paul how can we still do the things that are so distasteful and do not satisfy us? one day one step at a time according to God will and God’s timing. Grace

  124. street says:

    forever i did like your son and sin oversight.
    the difficulty of seeing ourselves as sons and daughters and as sinners is a great parodox, considering that we are son and daughters of a HOLY GOD.

    God is light and in Him there is no darkness.
    east and west are far from each other
    brought near by the death of Christ
    sustained by His Life.
    to God be the Glory now and forever.
    Great thing He Has Done.

  125. foreverblessed says:

    The name, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, made it to me very much attached to the people of Israel, and the land Israel. That is the Old Covenant idea.

    But the promise was not only for Abraham and his physical offspring!
    It was about redeeming the whole of mankind!

    The God who wants to draw each man to himself, the Father who calls, the Son who provides the way, for each person who listens to the call. And the Holy Spirit, who trains all those who have become His children.
    The name God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob stands for the God who is God for all man, all peoples, not just Israel.

    I find it a real eye-opener!

    One God!

    God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!
    Three different people, but the God of them is One God.

    If you would have three children, say there names were: Rachel, Rebecca and Sarah,
    Then you are the mother of Rachel, Rebecca and Sarah.
    Three different people.

    YET, you are one person: the mother of Rachel, Rebecca and Sarah.

  126. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you very much Steve, for your blessing! That warmed my heart! May God bless your night, you and yours, may He watch over you

    And the songs you post Jeff, such deep meaning there is in the words!

    Beloved child of God!

    God dearly loves us, He wants us to sit down with Him. That we come to rest!
    But at times He wants to hear our voice too!

    Yesterday I had a great day! I know lots of people from my old church, my longtime friend became a regression therapist, she sees spiritual entities that guide her. I have prayed for her, and for her children, for protection, for angeles guarding the house. She had two children adopted from Africa, christians. I prayed to God that they would bring Jesus in the house!
    For 21 years I have prayed.
    Yesterday I learned that she has a grandchild, and that the girl is very very fond of Jesus! 4 years old she was, when she said: I love Jesus the most!

    Her family was amazed, and don’t have a clue where she got that
    from!
    When I heard it, I was shocked in a pleasant sort of way:
    God listens to our prayers!
    He collects them, and waits for the right time to act!

    Oh, how great is our God, how wonderful are His ways with men!
    I know that intercessory prayer a is one of the calling the one can have.
    If we would know HOW MUCH God waits for our prayers, we would pray a lot more, for people.

  127. poohpity says:

    Jacob’s(holder of the heel) name was changed to Israel(one who has prevailed with God)Genesis 32:28, 35:10 just as Abram’s(high father) name was changed to Abraham(father of a multitude) Gen 17:5, Sarai’s(my princess) name was changed to Sarah(mother of nations) Gen 17:15. Jesus’s mother Mary was from the tribe of Judah(one of Jacob’s 12 sons) or the twelve tribes of Israel. Yes many nations were blessed through Israel. That was why genealogies were so important back in those days.

  128. poohpity says:

    I guess I am confused about how the three girls names of one parent because obviously they had to have two parents and how that fits into the Trinity or God “OF”? I think that “God of” is vastly different than parent of.

  129. jeff1 says:

    I Heard a great voice out of heaven saying
    Behold the tabernacle of God is with men
    He shall dwell within them and they shall be His people
    And Almighty God will be with them

    He shall wipe away all tears from their eyes
    There shall be no more death
    Neither sorrow, nor crying, and no more pain
    The former things are all passed away

    He that sat upon the throne said,
    “Behold, I make all things new”
    He said unto me, “Write these words
    For they are faithful and true”

    And it is done
    It is done
    It is done
    It is done

    He is the Alpha and Omega
    The Beginning and the End
    The Son of God, the King of Kings
    Lord of lords, He’s Everything
    Messiah, Jehovah
    The Prince of Peace is He
    The Son of Man, Seed of Abraham
    Second Person in the Trinity

    He is the Alpha and Omega
    The Beginning and the End
    The Son of God, the King of Kings
    Lord of lords, He’s Everything
    Messiah, Jehovah
    The Prince of Peace is He
    The Son of Man, Seed of Abraham
    Second Person in the Trinity

    He is the Alpha and Omega
    The Beginning and the End
    The Son of God, the King of Kings
    Lord of lords, He’s Everything
    Messiah, Jehovah
    The Prince of Peace is He
    The Son of Man, Seed of Abraham
    Second Person in the Trinity

    He is the Alpha and Omega
    The Beginning and the End
    The Son of God, the King of Kings
    Lord of lords, He’s Everything
    Messiah, Jehovah
    The Prince of Peace is He
    The Son of Man, Seed of Abraham
    Second Person in the Trinity

    He is the Alpha and Omega
    The Son of God, the King of Kings
    Messiah, Jehovah
    The Great I Am seed of Abraham
    He is the Alpha and Omega
    The beginning and the end
    Son of God, the King of Kings
    The Lord of everything
    He is Lord

  130. foreverblessed says:

    “Now let us come to Jacob. Many Christians see that God is the source of everything. They also see that everything they have comes through receiving. But there is a problem: Many Christians do not receive. We know that everything we have comes by receiving and that if we do not receive anything, we will be left with vanity and emptiness. But we still do not receive, and we still try to do things ourselves. Why? We do not overcome by the law of life; instead, we try to overcome by our own will. Why? One reason is that the principle of Jacob is still in us. The activity of the flesh is still present, the power of the soul is still present, and the natural life is still present. We know doctrinally that God is the Initiator of everything, yet in reality we initiate many things. We remember a doctrine for two weeks, but by the third week we have forgotten it. Then we try to initiate something again. We behave this way because Jacob is still present within us. If a doctrine of overcoming or a teaching of sanctification only tells us that everything comes from God and that everything is received, without telling us that the natural life needs to be dealt with, the doctrine of overcoming and the teaching of sanctification are incomplete and impractical. If a teaching does not touch the soul-life, it will only make us happy for a few days. Then everything will be over. We have to see that God is the Head of all things. We have to see that we are those who receive. At the same time, we have to see that our natural life must be checked. Only then will we see the goodness of the Son and the way of submission to the Father. Whether or not we can receive the promise of the Son and whether or not we can take the way of the Father depend on whether we accept the discipline of the Holy Spirit and whether we are willing to have our natural life touched. We can see this from the life of Jacob.”

    from the book of watchman Nee
    The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you can read it on internet.

    it continues:
    “The outstanding characteristic of Jacob’s natural constitution was his cleverness. He was an exceptionally clever person. He could deceive anyone. He deceived his brother, father, and uncle. He could devise anything, he could do everything, and he could achieve anything. He was not like his father, who was just a son. He went to his uncle empty-handed and came back with his hands full. This was Jacob.”

    “What is the lesson we learn from Jacob? Abraham speaks to us of the Father, Isaac speaks to us of the Son, and Jacob speaks to us of the Holy Spirit. It does not mean that Jacob represents the Holy Spirit, but that his experiences represent the work of the Holy Spirit. Jacob’s history is a type of the discipline of the Holy Spirit. We see a crafty person who was filled with schemes and deceits. But at the same time, we see a person whom the Holy Spirit disciplined step by step. He held his older brother’s heel, yet he still ended up being the younger brother. He supplanted his brother with a pottage of lentils and usurped the birthright, but he, not his brother, eventually had to run away from home. He received his father’s blessing, but he, not his brother, became a wanderer. When he went to stay with his uncle, he wanted to marry Rachel, but Laban gave him Leah, not Rachel first. For twenty years, the drought consumed him in the day, and the frost consumed him by night (Gen. 31:40). Indeed, he lived a toilsome and hard life. All these experiences were the discipline of the Holy Spirit; they were the trials that a clever man had to go through. Those who can scheme and who are resourceful will see God’s hand upon them. The natural life has to be pressed out. Jacob’s history is a picture of the discipline of the Holy Spirit.”

  131. foreverblessed says:

    “Some brothers and sisters are exceptionally clever, thoughtful, shrewd, calculating, and resourceful. But we must remember that we do not walk in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God (2 Cor. 1:12). Jacob experienced the continual discipline of the Holy Spirit. As a result, his cleverness was never able to have its way. On the night at Peniel, Jacob learned the greatest lesson; it was actually the best night of his life! He thought he could have his way with anyone and could similarly have his way with God. But when he came face to face with God, God touched the hollow of Jacob’s thigh, and he became crippled (Gen. 32:25). The sinew of the hollow of the thigh is the strongest sinew in the whole body. For Jacob’s hollow to be touched meant that God had touched the strongest part of his natural life. From that day on, he was crippled! Before he was crippled, he was Jacob. After he was crippled, Israel came into being (v. 28)! From that day on, he was no longer a supplanter but one who was being supplanted. Before that time, he deceived his father. After that day, he was deceived by his sons (37:28-35). The formerly clever Jacob would never have been carried away by the deception of his sons, because he was such a deceiver himself; he would never have believed in others. The more a person deceives, the more he does not trust in others, because he judges others according to his own heart. But now things were different. The latter Jacob was different from the former Jacob. He no longer trusted in his own cleverness. This is why he could be deceived by his own sons. He shed many tears, and his natural strength was dealt with and was stripped away by God. This is the kind of experience that makes us the people of God. One day God will shine on you and show you how evil, wicked, and conniving you are. When God shows you who you are, you will not be able to lift up your head. God’s light will terminate you and force you to admit that you are finished. You will acknowledge that you dare not serve God anymore and that you are not qualified to serve Him any longer! From that point on, you will no longer trust in yourself. This is the discipline of the Holy Spirit.”

  132. poohpity says:

    Oh now I see where you got what you were saying from but what you said and what Nee said does not seem to be the same about Jacob and the Holy Spirit but I understand where you got it from when left in context. However the work of the Holy Spirit does not seem to be that of a hard task master to break us into submission but has patience with us until we reach a point that we tire of doing things our way and are ready to do things another way, God’s way but never forced or beaten down to get there.

    What Nee is teaching seems contrary to the real work of the Holy Spirit because what he describes does not seem like the comforter Jesus taught us about and what He Himself lived. I do not remember God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit ever forcing anyone into anything. That sounds more like the acts of a human being. (John 16:13 or Gal 5: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.) It seems God spent a lot of time pursuing us to get us to see how much we mean to Him and we serve out of gratitude for His great love. Nothing forced or disciplined into us but turning our life and will over to Him because we have learned how much He cares for us and how our way has not worked well. The Holy Spirit is not a hard task master but a comforter and guide.

  133. poohpity says:

    It is a very wise course of action to compare what people teach to what is actually said in the bible.

    Jesus said, “Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Does that sound like what Nee taught in the last few sentences that started with “One day”? God does not change.

  134. Beloved says:

    Forever I was led back here after God showed me how helpful this blog has been to my spiritual growth. “The natural life has to be pressed out. Jacob’s history is a picture of the discipline of the Holy Spirit.” This is so true and trustworthy and a good enough confirmation to me to continue here. Thank you.

  135. SFDBWV says:

    Hello Joyce so very glad to see you here again. Looking forward to your thoughts and comments and especially your fellowship.

    Steve

  136. foreverblessed says:

    Dear Beloved! Welcome back.
    It is a training, our eyes fixed on Jesus. Whatever.
    I do pray for you, that God may help you to do so. As it is hard overhere.
    He is always the main focus of our attention, He should be, but boy, how slow to learn am I!
    You are a Beloved child of God!
    And so am I. Learning step by step, to focus on Him.

    I myself was so encouraged by the example of Jacob. God loved him anyway, but his training period was so long and so hard. THe strong self-willed man. Yet God loved the self-willed man! God knew He would train him, that He would be able to get him on his knees.
    Like God chose Saul, who became Paul. Also a tough man! A hard nut to crack.
    For me Jacob stands for the self-willed man!

    God is changing me! And my eyes should be on Jesus:

    For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. Rom 11″:36

    “He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things. (Eph. 4.10)
    The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.(John 3.35)
    Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he came forth from God, and goeth unto God.(John 13.3)
    All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine:therefore said I, that he taketh of mine, and shall declare it unto you.(John 16.15)
    Now they know that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are from thee.(John 17.7)
    [God] hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds. (Heb. 1.2) “

  137. foreverblessed says:

    The book is very encouraging to read, it would be for you Beloved.
    If you do a search on
    GOd of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Watchman Nee
    then this book will appear.
    On a website that is called ministrybooks, that goes with an org.
    You can just read it online, very good to read.

    Oops, I should not have copied it, “living streams ministry” has the copyright!

  138. Beloved says:

    A hard nut to crack!!! Aren’t we all? By Gods grace He gives us little by little what we can stand to hear from Him. But for grace we’d all fall short. In my searching/seeking lately God had to remind me that without the troubles I have I would go proudly straight to hell!!! He doesnt want that for me. He loves me that much, as with you also. So, ‘in acceptance lieth peace’, an old favorite saying of mine, still. His ways are far above our ways, who can understand them? But we who have Christ have His mind also. It is well with my soul, even if it’s raining!

    There’s a song I used to know, “Pierce my ear, LORD” from an OT story. Accepting the pain of fellowship with God along with the hope of fellowship– being perfectly transformed in heaven is peace. (Rather have a pierced ear than a broken leg!!)

  139. Beloved says:

    Forever thanks I’m very familiar with Watchman Nee, I cut my baby teeth on him, lol.

    I’m reading a very good book you can download free from Amazon “The Bruised Reed” by Richard Sibbes. Written in the early 1700’s. It really goes into detail about how God understands the hurt soul. Very consoling. Reading about the smoldering flax part now, that the smallest ember has been placed by God into the soul. So encouraging to me.

  140. jeff1 says:

    I Watch The Sunrise

    I watch the sunrise lighting the sky,
    Casting its shadows near.
    And on this morning,
    Bright though it be,
    I feel those shadows near me.

    But you are always close to me,
    Following all my ways.
    May I be always close to you,
    Following all your ways Lord.

    I watch the sunlight shine through the clouds,
    Warming the earth below.
    And at the midday life seems to say,
    I feel your brightness near me.

    For you are always close to me,
    Following all my ways.
    May I be always close to you,
    Following all your ways Lord.

    I watch the sunset, fading away,
    Lighting the clouds and sea.
    And as the evening, closes its eyes,
    I feel your presence near me.

    Yes, you are always close to me
    Following all my ways.
    May I be always close to you,
    Following all your ways Lord.

  141. cbrown says:

    Good afternoon all!What an encouraging afternoon.

  142. mtman says:

    Envision someone takes a piece of sidewalk chalk and writes a ‘6’ on the sidewalk. Two people approach the 6 from different sides and one claims it is a 6 but the other claims it is a 9. Both are right but they refuse to accept the other one’s comment and commence to argue. Then a moderator comes on the scene and tells them to change places. Now they see what the other was talking about.

    They understand but as long as they argue they claim the other doesn’t understand. they fail to see the other persons point of view. That is what I have seen on this blog and it is just ironic that I picked now to check it out again.

    Slight mis-understandings became arguments and then it was made personal even though the person doing the insulting said it wasn’t.

    Sometimes being right is not all that important, especially when you are being criticized from others. You may just throw an idea out to see if you can get clarification. It is very rare that a persons comment is 100% wrong, but if you attack them and not the concept you make someone very upset.

    Wouldn’t it be best to wait, think the issue through, and ask them to amplify the comment instead of forging forward and trying to correct them from ‘your’ point of view?

    I left because of the bickering, outright fighting with each other and down right nasty overbearing comments to each other. Why endure the grief of having everything you say dissected, wrongly stated and criticized from someone who has no idea what you are actually stating. When any comment comes under attack.

    I’m glad that Mart finally brought this out for discussion and I’ll watch and see how it goes before I allow myself to be involved again. I hope what I have read above is a turning point.. Just my thoughts.

  143. Beloved says:

    AN ILLUMINATED MIND Kerchlow Chronicles

    The perfect thought of God,
    the cherubim and flaming sword I find
    They keep me from the garden,
    of an illuminated mind

    The tree of life is the knowledge of God,
    and the fruit thereof will sustain
    All those who have been enlightened,
    forever they will remain

    To know as I am known,
    this is what I seek
    To speak the words unspeakable,
    that are now unlawful for man to speak

    The mind of Christ is now in me,
    by His Spirit the deep things of God He will show
    Someday more than an Eden will be open,
    and of my God I will know all there is to know

    But now at this time I am aware of the failings of myself as
    I traverse through this dark valley of life. And it’s at these times
    when I feel the torment of the World, Flesh and the Devil hounding
    me so adversely. And everywhere I turn I’m trapped within the
    confines where the escape ever eludes me. And while I know that
    I am surely saved by the Blood of Christ, it’s still as if I’m going
    to Heaven past the brink of Hell.

    THE OPEN PIT

    As I approached a deep valley,
    an old man there did sit
    And horror filled his eyes,
    as he stared into a deep descending open pit

    I asked him what he saw,
    I asked him if to me he could tell
    He answered he sees only the flickering shadows,
    of the everlasting fires of Hell

    He then placed his hand over the edge,
    and pulled up a small fiery coal so red
    Then he opened up my mind with it,
    and its horror filled up my head

    Far gone in that moment,
    was the great God that I knew
    Banishment from His Holy Presence,
    and His constant thoughts of me too

    I cried to the old man,
    “I am so sorry I asked to see
    For to be separated from my God,
    is truly unbearable for me to be!”

    So he took back from me the coal,
    that he had placed into my mind
    And he threw it back into the fiery pit,
    but a slight memory of it was left behind

    As the old man walked away, he smiled,
    he shouted, “You need not ever there to fear
    For your God has loved you from before forever,
    and to Him you are beyond everlastingly dear!”

    Have you ever been haunted by God? Have you ever felt what
    He really feels for you? Have you ever really considered what
    God has thought His thought that pertains to only you?

    Like the old ancient saint said,”God loves each and every one of
    us as if there was only one of us!” Have you ever considered the
    reality of that statement? I want to be the one who comes to realize
    what I really mean to God! Do you?

    I want my mind to be so illuminated by what I mean to God that
    everything else falls by the wayside. I want to Think God’s thought
    concerning me.

    I thought the greatest thought,
    that could ever be thought by me
    Where a trillion angels I stood before,
    now parted like the Mighty Red Sea

    And as I walked down through the middle,
    each and every angel dropped his mighty sword
    For as they all gazed upon me,
    they saw in me the very image of the Lord

  144. poohpity says:

    Isn’t it love that changes people? Take a cranky old man and be very nice, do loving things for him and be gentle over and over to him even if he rejects it at first and see if he does not open his heart to you as long as he can tell it is done with the sincere motive of love and not manipulation, flattery or force. Isn’t that what God does for us? He shows us His love, kindness, patience and that changes the people He comes in contact with! At least that has been what I have read, seen and experienced from those the power of God has touched.

    Forcing and demanding is something that controlling people do and it does not seem that God wants to control us that would be authoritarian or domineering yet His love offers or invites us into a relationship with Him if it was coerced or forced it would not be love because no one can force another to love them although people do try but the more they try the further away they push others away.

    mtman, you will find what you are looking for. If one looks for the best in others they will usually find it but if one looks for the worst in others they will usually find that too because there is both in all human beings but it totally seems to depend on our own perspective kind of like a cup half full or half empty kinda thing.

  145. street says:

    welcome back beloved XOXOXOdo hope you are well and blessed in all your endeavors

    heard something about sin i never thought through before.
    God is Eternal
    sin is an offense to God
    making sin an Eternal offense
    do you think 100 years on earth will take care of your sin?
    therefore Christ

  146. Beloved says:

    Street you are so funny! But I get your point. Need to major on the Truth, the whole Truth, rather than the minors, everyday life on the planet. Yes?

    I do appreciate the love shown me here, it certainly outweighs the alternative. Thank you all for your kindness and compassion.

  147. Beloved says:

    (Minors like everyday sin vs original sin I’m thinking.)

  148. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you Mtman!
    Why endure all this dissecting of comments?
    Mart seems to say: Laugh about it.

  149. foreverblessed says:

    Street, only Jesus covers our sins.
    What a blow to our own intentions, our own good deeds trying to make good the things we have done bad.
    I had to think about the incarnation believers, not in one life we learn to live a good life, so there are many lifes to live, till we are “holy”
    Even if we would live a million lives, we would never get there to be holy.

    The weather, Joyce doesn’t mind the winter! That is great, I would like that myself! Just enjoying the winter. The winter is nice, when the world is white.
    (well all the snow shuffeling, what a work) All white and blue sky, the sun shining. I love that.
    And then inside a fire, wood burning, gives a real nice warmth. But we have no fire place, and besides, neighbours will come in and say they are hindered by the smoke. I have a little burner in my atelier, but the neighbour on the backside really complains about it. So I hardly burn it.
    And I have set myself on blessing the people that hinder you in your life. He is getting old, and we have many discussions about God, and religion, and he is mad at God, -how can a God exist, and allow a little child to suffer-
    kind of discussions like that. Last time was about Christmas: -all folklore, “fakenews”-
    And his wife had a little, how do you call that: Mary with a crib, and the baby Jesus, Joseph and animals, the three wise men. She was foond of that scene.

    Then we have a little discussion, and I ask God what words to give me, words that he needs to hear. It is now going on for 15 years. And I am telling God: Time is ticking, he is getting older and older. ( he had a heart attack just before Christmas.)
    I keep praying for him.
    God is always love, but if people are very set in their ways, God has to use some heavy settings, just to get to a person’s heart. Not that GOd wants it.

    God used heavy methods to get to Jacob’s heart. Is God domineering? Is the Holy Spirit domineering? No, I do not think so, I believe that our own old man is very domeneering, and self-willed, and that that is the reason that God has to be tough on our circumstances to get to our hearts.
    It was really tough what Jacob had to go through, 20 years of slavery with Laban. And being tricked by him.
    Was it because GOd demands His will?
    No, it was because Jacob demanded his will.

    And because God could get through to Jacob, it is so encouraging to know: He will also get to us! If we hold on to Him.
    To me that is such a positive side: God chose a most stubborn and self-willed man: Jacob
    To show what He was capable of.

    Just the same as Paul:
    He says of himself: because God could save me, the worst of sinners, Christ might show His unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on Him.
    1 Timothy 1:12-17
    GOd does not force anyone anything, but God can allow circumstances in our life to happen, He can allow the same test to come to us, again and again, so that we will get so exhausted, and to the end of ourselves.
    Till we bow down and say:
    “I am helpless, God please help me.
    WH”hen we come to that point, nothing we can think of helps, nothing we do changes anything, then we are humble, and poor in spirit.

    “Blessed are the poor in spirit…
    Matthew 5:3

  150. foreverblessed says:

    1 Timothy 1:12-17

    I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

    15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

  151. foreverblessed says:

    Last couple of weeks I have seen testimonies of people coming to a living faith in Jesus,
    A man who was a mormon, Micah Wilder.
    And a real violent man from Iran, Afshin Javid.
    If you do a search on that name, many youtibe video’s will appear where he tells his story.
    The testimony of that man looks like that of Saul, who became Paul. Really stunning!
    How God worked to get at his heart! It is amazing!
    GOd does not force anyone, but He uses many methods to change our circumstances. Muslim people apparantly have contact with spirits, they call them “jing” to give them power to hurt their enemies. But God allowed a very violent spirit to approach him, the spirit was so violent, he wanted to suffocate him. That made him really scared.
    And here’s the miracle that God can do:
    He heard a voice in his head, saying: call for Jesus.

    Because he was so scared and thought he would die at the spot, he just called Jesus, if you are there show yourself to me.
    And the spirit was gone!
    Now started a very confusing period for him: Why would Jesus help a muslim like him?

    I’v got to go, if anyone is interested in the follow up, just say so.

    Havew a blessed day, whatever the weather, and if it is grey and cold and misty, you need a bigger blessing.
    Staying close to Jesus!

  152. foreverblessed says:

    What a beautiful poem, Beloved!
    I have the feeling that God just does show us a little bit of the horror of hell, sometime in our life, at a certain point in our life, to get us to His heaven, to His heart.
    we do not live in a neutral world, this is the valley of humiliation, the dark world.

    Col 1:13-14
    For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

  153. poohpity says:

    I guess I read a different story about Jacob trading his labor/work for a place to stay and food with his uncle. Then again trading labor/work for his wives and flocks, a slave does not get to trade anything to get anything but to only do what he is told to do and yes, sometimes in those days, to pay off a debt.

    I have read from many people that they think God plays games with us. He causes bad things to happen so we come to Him but I believe since the fall, sin came into the world along with rebellion against God. If I believe God is good and loving then how is it that He causes damage just for us to come to Him rather than thinking that it is human beings who have caused their own damage through rebellion?? I guess it is again how one looks at it. What loving parent would do that to their children?

  154. poohpity says:

    forever, just out of curiosity do you have any children because I do not remember you writing anything about them?

  155. poohpity says:

    I have always also believed that I do good works not to gain anything with God but out of gratitude for what He did for me. If my sin is taken care of at the Cross then I can take a step further to do the things God prepared in advance for me to do. Eph 2:10 NLT; Titus 2:14 NLT; James 2:17 NLT; James 2:26 NLT

  156. poohpity says:

    A follower of Christ does not use the gifts and talents the Spirit has given us to do evil but to do good and build up the church.

    Eph 4: Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. 13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

    14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. 15 Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. 16 He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.

  157. mtman says:

    Pooh: I see the others on this site taking Mart’s words to heart but your response to me was not about anything I posted but instead you lecture and oversee me with your comment. I do not believe you have ever understood the contributors on this site which is why they consider you the blog police. I am not saying this in anger but constructively. At my age I don’t need someone to tell me about my perspective or about a cup half full or half empty. You need to give up trying to be captain of the world and participate on a constructive level and not rule peoples lives like your comment to me.

    If the others want to let you lecture them that is up to them but I totally resent it. You are not my guardian so if you take exception with a comment I make or don’t fully understand what I say ask for amplification but don’t lecture me again. When I visit this site that is why I skip over your comments.

  158. poohpity says:

    mtman, you mean I can not force you to do anything you do not want to do? I totally agree and neither can the Holy Spirit. I do not try to persuade anyone to do anything and yes I fully understand Mart’s topic if one is following the Lord it does not matter what topic anyone chooses to discuss it will be done out of mutual humility, respect, consideration, and good judgment even when we do not agree but I would not expect you to understand that since your mind is made up. People say you can not teach old dogs new tricks but I do not believe that to be true but maybe in your case it is.

    Life is a matter of choices that we make as Moses said in the wilderness:

    Deut 30: “Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live! 20 You can make this choice by loving the Lord your God, obeying him, and committing yourself firmly to him. This is the key to your life. And if you love and obey the Lord, you will live long in the land the Lord swore to give your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

    We are the choices in life that we make and those choices can influence even our speech.

  159. poohpity says:

    I would apologize for not trusting Watchman Nee’s teaching but I am not sorry for that because I have learned to compare what anyone teaches to what is said in scripture. I trust the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth and although some can mix those truths with truths of their own, their own understanding, I will go with what the Lord teaches. It is called discernment, a blessed gift from God.(Isaiah 11:2; John 14:26)

  160. poohpity says:

    John 10:10

  161. poohpity says:

    The only thing I hope to achieve on this blog is for people to search the scriptures for themselves and learn from the Master since His word is all that is really important in the life of His followers.

  162. cbrown says:

    Good morning all!The “Our Daily Bread” this morning(2/12)has to do with what Watchman Nee was writing about “discernent”.Please read it. Love, Chris

  163. poohpity says:

    Gee Chris I read nothing that had anything to do with what Watchman Nee said in ODB for today. I did not even read anything Watchman Nee was quoted as saying about discernment not to say it was not there. Isn’t it odd how people can read or listen to the same things and get something different? I thought ODB was about God opening our eyes to see and know He is near and sees us even when life hands us lemons, He makes lemonade.

  164. Beloved says:

    Thanks Chris! El Roi, the God who sees me! I love it!

    Speaking of weather…I’d like to share how God prepared me for this rough winter we are experiencing. Last fall my cell carrier offered roadside assistance for $3 a month. Only having basic insurance on my old car I decided to enroll as the price was manageable. The first week of -20-30 below my car would not start. I called for a jump start, no problem. The following week the same thing, minus 20’s again and no start. Called again, but this time the driver said as my battery was only 1.5 years old it may be defective. I called Wal-Mart and they said they would not replace a frozen battery. Well, I decided to have it checked out and low and behold they gave me a new battery!!! God knew what was ahead for me and prepared a way! Was I anxious, yes, was I upset, yes, as we are under pressure here to move our vehicles so they can plow. But God is so much greater than our curcumstances. And good, always good. Praise God.

  165. poohpity says:

    Or that we have taken part in causing the lemons from not waiting on Him and if that is what you were speaking of I see that part in what Nee was saying because Jacob tried to do everything his way. Just put glasses on, lol.

  166. Beloved says:

    Forever this morning I was asking God to show me how to love, embrace even a difficult person. He showed me Jesus, Son of God, enduring horrible pain for His creation, His imago deo creation. What got my attention is that if we are the image of God, we are His offspring, looking like Jesus as we all do in human body. I thought of the pain He went through to show His love, favor and redemptive will for us all. Spirit of Christ in me, I must also be “willing” to really love others, even if it costs me my dignity, self respect or whatever. Jesus died a hard death, so must I. The world flesh and devil are always biting or inviting. Whew. With Jesus as our Guide we will survive, and thrive to love one another as we love God.

  167. cbrown says:

    Dear Pooh, I saw Watchman Nee writing about Jacob before He became Israel and ODB’S message about Leah before she exerienced seeing God.Love, Chris

  168. street says:

    Street you are so funny! But I get your point. Need to major on the Truth, the whole Truth, rather than the minors, everyday life on the planet. Yes?

    thinking of the sower with the good seed. sowing the truth in love and grace. very small seed that grows into the largest tree in the garden. even the nations will take shelter in it’s branches. each soul to be grafted in by the Vine-Dresser to produce fruit unto the harvest. and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    a sure foundation and telling us the end from the beginning.

  169. Beloved says:

    Yes indeed.

  170. Beloved says:

    Street thinking the job of engrafting and then producing is all Gods. Our part is to obey. Works are so attractive to a new sprout that wants to get going! But the carefully laid Foundation will shake off anything (like sand) that tries to attach itself to the Vine. Good to remember we are like sheep, always looking for greener pastures. Dumb but not lost, beloved and saved for eternity!

  171. phpatato says:

    Pooh your comment this morning at 10:33…..The only thing I hope to achieve on this blog is for people to search the scriptures for themselves and learn from the Master since His word is all that is really important in the life of His followers…….

    Asking for clarification…. by definition the word “achieve” is defined as: to successfully bring about or reach a desired object, level or result.

    You are wanting us to search the Scriptures and learn from the Master. You assume we don’t already search the Scriptures? You assume we aren’t wanting to learn from our Master? Do you look upon us as heathens or something? Do you have it as a main goal in life to preach the gospel to us?

    Just asking.

    This may be where all the misunderstandings and frustrations with you on this blog originate. By your assumptions you are convinced that everyone here is in desperate need of your help. So much so, that is why you are constantly jumping all over our opinions and thoughts in hopes of squelching them completely. You look at us as your personal missionary field.

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I think a bit of light has been shed by her comment.

  172. Beloved says:

    Pat I think she is sincere. Not out of one-upmanship but as evangelism is her gift. Being away for a couple weeks, peacefully I’m happy to say, my mind was cleared of past hurts, confusion and misunderstandings. Coming back I’ve regained my objectivity and rereading I can now see that like mtman said and I agree that most of us all say the same thing, coming though from different cultures, life experiences, demographics and even genetic proclivities. Social graces/civility vary from place to place, even from church to church. None of us do life perfectly, none of us most certainly do Christianity perfectly! One man’s meat is another’s poison. But the secret we all share and can partake of is grace! Gods grace! It’s when I say, “BUT God, she did this or she didn’t do that” is when grace becomes too costly for me.

  173. Beloved says:

    So how in the world are we going to find our way forward? What in heaven’s name are we going to talk about, do together—to make best out of what we’ve been given?

  174. foreverblessed says:

    Tot make best of what we have been given…
    Maybe just tell about your own testimony.
    Like what you said about Jesus, showing you how much HE sufferded for our sakes.

  175. foreverblessed says:

    But I also do believe that especially a Christian website needs a moderator.
    Christians ought to worship Jesus together, singing Psalms and spiritual songs,
    Instead of dissecting comments.

  176. Beloved says:

    I would like to say, in all sincerity, may God continue to bless your ministry Deb, so important it is!!!! You have been given the courage and boldness to year after year lift up Jesus here as the Way, Truth, and Life. God bless you at home and in your neighborhood with wisdom grace love and faith. May He continue to guide and direct your steps, and may He give you His peace throughout your battle with liver failure. Your life is hidden in Christ, may the storms be truly reminders of His overwhelming love and care for you. With Christs love, Joyce XOXO

  177. Beloved says:

    I agree with street, a CHRISTIAN blog will flourish if the moderator allows the Holy Spirit to work. Reminded that our TIME is different from the LORD’S time. Waiting for someone to change? Ha, it’s me God wants to change, and His ways are numerous. Every prick to my ‘self’ is painful indeed. It’s the pain that should point me to Jesus. Doesn’t matter who caused it. It’s pure gift.

  178. bubbles says:

    This morning on the radio a pastor was speaking about how not all groups are 100% in agreement. When the spies were sent out and came back, they were not in 100% agreement. He made application to us today. In churches (and groups such as ours) there will not be 100% agreement on everything. Major things are important; diety of Christ and so forth; who God is, but the lesser points, shouldn’t we allow others to share their thoughts and let them go when we think/know they are wrong? I think allowing others to share thoughts; albeit they may be wrong in another’s mind is showing humility.

    Perhaps a good question to ask is do we/I ALWAYS have to be right? Do we/I must be right at the cost of hurting someone else’s feelings? I’ve heard some crazy things said but it’s better to keep my objections to myself rather than causing issues with the one who said them; it’s tact.

  179. Beloved says:

    Bubbles you are a very good example of being tactful, graceful in all “situations” here. Thank you.

  180. jeff1 says:

    Beloved, I have no doubts of Pooh’s sincerity but I agree with Pat she makes assumptions about others and it isn’t a very Christian attitude and yet she goes on about failings when we all need to be lifted up as we struggle enough in a secular world with put downs without listening to another believer putting you down.

    She expects perfection in others and at the same times she reiterates how it is impossible so is it one standard for her and another for the rest of us.

    She is knowledgeable beyond doubt but I spent my young life listening to same type of Christians only to find that I lived my life with a father whose simple faith had understood God because he had a heart for God and a love for all people and Pooh hasn’t convinced that she has a love for all people as I am just not feeling the warmth.

    I cannot cherry pick as the first two commandments are clear so I if I fail the second then I have failed to keep the first.

    I confess to struggling to love my enemies and have refuge in Christ who will strengthen me to get through this but I must desire for God to change me which means admitting there is a requirement to begin with and if I don’t see a need then I am not seeking change or that is how I see it.

  181. Beloved says:

    Viv Job comes to mind that as He challenged Jobs thinking so does He mine. Because of their conversation I think God puts in us the desire to change. The natural man is lost, but the Spirit gives life! But like I said, I’m a slow learner like most are.

  182. Beloved says:

    I can do all things because Christ enables me. Enables me to do His will.

  183. bubbles says:

    Joyce, I must buy a saw regularly to saw off my horns. I’m far from graceful and could kick myself for not being so many times.

  184. Beloved says:

    “Here” bubbles, here :-) I think taking the high road especially when things don’t change is commendable.

  185. Beloved says:

    The best relationships and treasured friendships I have are fragile— requiring a good deal of mutual humility, respect, consideration, and good judgment about what to say and not say in moments of disagreement, hurt, confusion, fear, and loss.

  186. Beloved says:

    A good sense of humor sure comes in handy doesn’t it. Learning to laugh at ourselves seems to be as important as knowing when to cry.

    Why does this feel so bad to me? I must take myself way too seriously I guess. Thoughts anyone? Be kind please.

  187. poohpity says:

    Chris, if I am not mistaken it was about Hagar being kicked out of the family group by Sarai because Sarai did not want Ismael to interfere with the growth of Isaac or to get any of his blessings not about Leah but I understand what you were saying about Jacob after I thought about it, that was why in humor I said I put my glasses on. Jacob did get a better understanding of God when he wrestled with Him at Penuel.

  188. poohpity says:

    But Chris thank you for speaking kindly in response to me when I failed to understand your point. :-)

  189. poohpity says:

    Also thank you Joyce for your comment @5:38pm and understanding what Mart’s point was when he said, “So how in the world are we going to find our way forward? What in heaven’s name are we going to talk about, do together—to make best out of what we’ve been given?” If we can not share our gifts and talk about different topics we will remain or stay stuck were we are, never moving forward in growth and learning. 2 Peter 1:3,8; 2 Peter 3:18 NLT

  190. poohpity says:

    lol “where” we are not “were we are”

    FYI to the rest of you I have never once even insinuated in anyway that I am in anyway any better than anyone else nor do I feel that way. I know the mess that drove me to Christ but I do get from y’all that you think you do not mess up in anyway because you sure are quick to pick out my faults which is in essence saying that my faults and failures are worst than yours. So sadly blinded, mistaken and misguided to say the least on your part.

  191. Beloved says:

    Reading from The Bruised Reed tonight it says;

    STRIFE AMONG THE HEIRS OF MERCY This mercy of Christ should also move us to sympathize with the state of the poor church: torn by enemies from without and torn by divisions within. Anyone who has ever felt Christ’s comfort cannot but be affected when they consider the affectionate plea the apostle makes for mutual agreement in judgment and love: “If there is therefore any consolation in Christ, any comfort of love, any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, fulfill my joy, that you be like-minded” (Phil. 2:1), as if he should say, “Unless you desire to disown all the consolation in Christ, work to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.” What a joyful spectacle this is to Satan and his followers, to see those who are separated from the world fall into pieces among themselves! Our discord is our enemy’s melody.

  192. street says:

    unity in the essentials
    liberty in the non essentials
    charity/love in all things.

    if your going to brag or boast do it in the Lord.

    paul was really good at this. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

    seems to me the foundation caught up to paul on the road to damascus. the Apostle to the gentiles.

    12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

    may we be found faithful.

    i remember david numbering the people, that story blows my mind!

    thinking about job saying Job 42:2
    “I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.

    yet blameless just holy righteous loving faithful merciful gracious generous glorious majestic………….

    some day conformed to the Image of His Son. a truly great hope.

  193. street says:

    3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

  194. foreverblessed says:

    Hagar and El Roi, the Lord who sees me.

    That is wonderful!
    And the child that was growing, the Lord sees!

    The man I was talking about, Afshin Javid, the militant man from a certain religion, who by a miracle from Jesus became a Christian! He has his own website, and gives meditations.
    In one of them he says:
    ” Do not say that Ishmael was a mistake!”

    Western christians should think about that.
    Just think: a child out of wedlock is born, and you call the child ” a mistake”
    Only trouble came because of that chips…

    He is saying, that God is doing miracles among the middle eastern people. Healings, wonders.
    God dearly loves the offspring of Ismael!

    When I was looking for video’s of Afshin Javid, there was one on a roman catholic website. That was wonderful!
    But there were some more articles, one on the oecumene.
    It stated something about the Lord’s Supper:
    Transsubstantiation!
    If you do not believe that, then you are not a true believer!

    Then I was thinking, the constant trouble I have here, for giving false teaching, it is peanuts compared to all the quarrels that are going on in the christian world!
    It is all around, and as Beloved said: the enemy loves it that we quarrel!

    Street said: unity in the essence!
    That’s great, but if someone states that believing the transsubstantiation is the essence, then there you go….
    But for the sake of Grace…

  195. foreverblessed says:

    “I will praise you, O Lord, with all my heart;
    Before the “gods” I will sing your praise”

    Psalm 138:1
    Before the “gods”,
    no matter what religious quarrelling: I will praise God.
    One of the commentaries on this verse said: Imagine theater christians would first seek God together in praising Him, praising Jesus, telling how Jesus had saved them from their old ways….
    Then there would be a lot less antagonism.

  196. jeff1 says:

    poohpity says:
    February 12, 2019 at 9:12 pm

    I know the mess that drove me to Christ but I do get from y’all that you think you do not mess up in anyway because you sure are quick to pick out my faults which is in essence saying that my faults and failures are worst than yours. So sadly blinded, mistaken and misguided to say the least on your part.

    Your the one who believes that you should correct another Pooh and if you believe in correction then you must believe that your truth is right and their truth is wrong.

    I have come to God not through scripture so you don’t see me as having God’s truths and yet because I had a father who set me an example I believe God is teaching me though not as He is teaching you.

    God has to work in us as individuals as well as collectively because everyone comes to Him differently.

    I have admitted my weaknesses many times both mental and heart felt so I am not saying that your failures or weaknesses are worse than mine but only that as I see it we are all depending on God’s Grace and Mercy and with that in mind we could be less judgemental and more understanding of another’s difficulties because I have not walked in your shoes anymore than you have walked in mine so we have no right to judge.

    The mentality today which was not among ancient followers of Christ is that I’m right and everyone else is wrong and we only have to look at how much division we have in the world to see where that attitude has got us.

    God is right and I need to change to His ways and if I don’t see the need then I am blissfully happy in my own ignorance.

  197. poohpity says:

    Oh my gosh Viv, really. It is not I am right or wrong and others are right or wrong. It is about reading the word for yourself and see what God says, not me or anyone else but share what He says instead of listening or reading a third or fourth party but find out things directly from the One who inspired them.

    The only one’s who have an issue with being corrected are those who’s egos are so big and their pride gets injured so they resort to childish things like name calling, put downs and the like rather than presenting a discussion on the point they were making. It is an exchange of ideas and most adults can do that in an open discussion without throwing a tantrum and kicking sand in the face of someone else.

    To me the problems in our world today is no one wants to hear from anyone else unless they agree with the way they think, NO sharing of ideas and listening to each other hearing their view point. It is more group think or get jumped on for thinking different.

    I enjoy hearing different sides to any topic. So when I read anything I try and read the opposing side and their point. It gives me more information so I can make an informed decision. What if we listened to information from one point of view all the time it sure would be more like brainwashing than learning?

  198. SFDBWV says:

    How sad, how frustrating…

    There is now not a single person sharing and commenting here except one that doesn’t know from where all of the strife and contention comes from.

    And yet instead of cleansing the congregation all participants are called into question as to behaving as Christians “should”.

    Another comment my dad like to say went something like this, “listen to your criticisms as your critics aren’t as concerned with your feelings as are your friends. As your critics are going to expose what your friends won’t.”

    Mart asks how are we to be able to come together and discuss anything when whatever it is we discuss always ends up in an ugly string of disagreeable exchanges.

    Disagreeable exchanges can end with “you”. There is no defense for ill-mannered behavior. None!

    If misunderstood explain yourself, but if your reply is incendiary then put out the flame by starving out its fuel and oxygen.

    Say no more. Ignore the insult and move on.

    Having the last word is not a victory but rather contrary to all of the teaching of humility from Jesus.

    One more thing; no one can be whatever it is they want to be regarding gifts of the Spirit without the anointing from God. The evidence of that anointing is success, additional evidence of the Holy Spirits leading is the “fruits” of the Spirit.

    If someone makes claims without the fruits of the Spirit evident in their demeanor or behavior then they are not representing Christ, but rather themselves. Recognize it and avoid it, put it behind you and move toward the light and away from darkness.

    The only person each one of we contributors can control is ourselves.

    Only Mart is the administrator here and no one else.

    26 degrees and snow.

    Steve

  199. poohpity says:

    I remember in times past that one of our friends listened and believed the speculation of scientists about creation not being done in 6 actual days but doubted the power of God by saying those days were probably a longer period of time than what God said. But another person besides me had the guts to disagree, Steve, who also agreed with what God had said in scripture of that account. But rather than pick on Steve they decided to confront me. No one else even uttered a word to say what they believed, God or scientists.

  200. foreverblessed says:

    Yes Steve,
    So true, just move on.
    Move on, as to , go to another christian discussion site?
    Or, do as what Mart says: Just have some humor.
    Laugh aobut all the criticism. I had said that Jacob was a slave, I meant it in a way, that he had hard labor, he was not a literel slave. So techinically speaking I was totally wrong, but if you looked to the chore of what I wanted to say: It was atough situation Jacob was in.
    I read some of the story again this morning:
    Genesis 30 What tricks jacob used to gain wealth! Wow, it is indeed incredible. And God had told Jacob that he would be blessed. But Jacob had a big hand in helping God to bless him.
    I really do see a similarity in the way I was in my old fundamentalistic church, you want to follow God, you obey His laws, as spelled out in the 10 commandments, but you have a big hand in it yourself. You really are trying to follow a set of rules, and you want to have clarity what that set of rules is, but having a close relation with Jesus is altogether far away from your heart.
    We did not let Jesus come close to our heart, that as in Utmost from today and yesterday, “Do we listen to God”
    THe israelites were so afraid of God, that they said at the mountain: Moses you talk to us, but not God Himself. Exodus 20:18-21
    Moses was their mediator.

    Nowadays we can personally go to Jesus. But me studying what other teachers have said, is not seeking them first, but is being a part of a whole body of believers. I could expect GOd to tell me all, but I can also expect that He talks through other christians as well!
    That is a matter of humility.
    And I can check with God to what I understand the other has said, if that is OK!

    One heart One mind
    that was the discovery series last week.
    I have listened to the first day, and it ends: When all denominations would worship God together…
    we are a long way from that.

    The One positive thing overhere is that we can learn to not act according to our human inclinations, the first uproar in our hearts, learn to capture them under the obedience of Jesus Christ:
    THat is the old man has to be “pushed out”
    Has to be killed, as Street often says.
    We do not have to search for htat, but overhere, lots of practice available.
    Mtman, which stands for mountainman, that is a nice name! He says, I retreat, when being treated with dissecting comments overhere. I have thought about doing that too. Or telling Mart, it is so difficult to have a good discussion when on every snale salt is being laid.

  201. foreverblessed says:

    That is an expression in Dutch:
    Put salt on every snale that you see.
    Or another saying:
    Sifting midges.
    Or
    Looking for nails in shallow water.

    Finding falt, any falt, and forgetting the overall picture:

    We here ALL believe:
    “That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures
    that He was buried,
    that He was raised the third day,
    and that He appeared to Peter, and then to the twelve”
    1 Cor 15:3-5

  202. Beloved says:

    Here is Paul’s response to ministry issues, none of which are happening here,by the way, but please note his focus is Christ!

    Can You Please Explain Philippians 1:15-18?
    Article by John Piper
    Founder & Teacher, desiringGod. org

    Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice (Philippians 1:15-18)
    The overarching point of this passage is that God, in his gracious sovereignty, turns even prison and bad motives into the advancement of the gospel. “I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel” (Philippians 1:12).

    But the most surprising thing about this text is the way Paul’s celebration of gospel truth overrides his sorrow at defective motives.

    He rejoices that Christ is proclaimed. But some of the proclaimers are sinning as they proclaim, trying to afflict Paul by making him feel jealous that they are free while he is in prison.

    What is more astonishing is that this sinful behavior is just the opposite of the way the gospel itself would incline a person to act. So they are hypocrites. They preach the gospel and then contradict in their very motives the gospel they are preaching.

    One more amazing thing. In Galatians Paul calls down a curse on bad preaching: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8).

    What’s the difference—celebration in Philippians and cursing in Galatians? The difference is that there is no evidence in Philippians that the hypocritical preachers were saying false things when they preached the gospel. They preached the true gospel. But the preachers in Galatians were distorting the gospel.

    In other words, Paul is more agitated when the gospel itself is defective than he is when the people who preach the true gospel are defective.

  203. poohpity says:

    Yes because all who preach the Gospel are defective in some manner, in other words they are sinners saved by grace, not one of them is perfect nor do they think they are or they would not need the Gospel they preach.

    As Paul said, “This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them all. But God had mercy on me so that Christ Jesus could use me as a prime example of his great patience with even the worst sinners. Then others will realize that they, too, can believe in him and receive eternal life. All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He is the eternal King, the unseen one who never dies; he alone is God.”

  204. mtman says:

    Ha, ha, ha, scratch the surface and division pours out.. I’m not making fun at anyone but I find this amusing that a Christian site has been virtually taken over by a troll and everyone else allows that person to be the center of attention and controller.

    I’ll bet Mart thought long and hard before he addressed this issue knowing it could bring to the surface what I read above. It has brought to the surface what I imagine he wished it would not. He can raise thoughtful issues but in each case they evolve to being taken over by a troll.

    Each contributor is different in many respects but most all are seeking a closer relationship with Jesus. To expect to achieve that relationship is next to impossible with a troll in the midst as the subject becomes blurred and misdirected to the troll.

    I wasn’t getting much from this site other than reading Mart’s subjects so I left and that time and space gives me a different perspective. When I just returned on this subject and viewed the blog I therefore come from a different perspective. If something distracts me from attaining a closer relationship with Jesus I bail as it is not worth my time – with so little time left.

    I have had many years of life which I give thanks for each and every day and with those years I have constantly grown closer to the Lord and he has given me more good experiences than I can count. I thought initially that those experiences would benefit this blog but I was constantly distracted by the troll. I too wanted to help that person understand and grow but subsequently found out that it was me being pulled away and being thrown into constant confusion.

    Hence I left and over the years have witnessed many others leave this well intended Christian site. I manage a blog site that has had over 338,000, visitors and have had experience on that site with trolls. I also manage a Facebook page for a national magazine and get trolls on it. I’m familiar with trolls. I was told by a young lady in California one time to ignore trolls and they eventually go away. I have found her advice very true.

    Once I gained from this blog and I’m hopeful to do so again. I will ignore the troll however and only in that way will I get any value from this blog. I read Mart’s commentaries in ODB and find he has taken his comments to a much higher level and I find them of value. Same here on this blog if I avoid distraction from the troll.

    I will continue to read but comment less as I do not like the distraction from any course that would bring me a better relationship with the Lord. I hand pick the responses I now read. I hope my experience will help others and I will share when I think it appropriate. I have learned to take what is of value and leave the rest. It works for me.

  205. mtman says:

    Addendum: When you engage a troll they will eventually drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  206. Beloved says:

    So why even discuss it? FYI with loving intent.

    Troll: internet type, wikipedia

    Application of the term troll is subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. Like any pejorative term, it can be used as an ad hominem attack, suggesting a negative motivation.

    As noted in an OS News article titled “Why People Troll and How to Stop Them” (25 January 2012), “The traditional definition of trolling includes intent. That is, trolls purposely disrupt forums. This definition is too narrow. Whether someone intends to disrupt a thread or not, the results are the same if they do.”

    Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities. Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore it, because responding tends to encourage trolls to continue disruptive posts – hence the often-seen warning: “Please do not feed the trolls”.

  207. Beloved says:

    Thinking of the sexual sins being publicized in Southern Baptist churches, how there is no sure way to track abusers as they go from church to church, like the Catholic church has done. A sexual abuser is the worst kind of “troll” psychologically and of course physically as they run through other’s boundaries, yet their deception is often overlooked because we believe as Christ followers that because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God we are to not judge another believer and just pray for them, hoping for the best. Ignoring them is the worst mistake we can make. However, their destructive capabilities are far greater than a person online who causes much grief (troll). As Christs’ followers’ we are told to bless and not curse fellow believers as well as unbelievers. And I agree there’s no winning with a troll, best to ignore. Hope this isn’t too confusing. My head hurts. Blessings to all! Joyce

  208. poohpity says:

    mtman, wasn’t it a comment from you that stated, “I left because of the bickering, outright fighting with each other and down right nasty overbearing comments to each other.” Isn’t calling someone names nasty and overbearing? In the last comment you did all the things you said you left because of, lol. So we can learn those kinds of things from you, right? So then who do we learn humility, mercy, compassion from because it sure isn’t the example that was given us from mtman, who boasts of being the great accomplished manager of a blog site with so many visitors and a manager of a facebook national magazine page.

  209. street says:

    hey what about the truth? thinking if a person who can not read the Bible, then they will never know God and be damned forever? when Jesus said unless you become like a little child you will in no way enter the Kingdom of Heaven. can a small child read? certainly not in the culture and context this was spoken. seems to me the scribes and pharisees could read, but it did not help them at all, like the law. thank God for Jesus and Pentecost. new life. new hope. a new way forward. to God be the Glory!

  210. Beloved says:

    So then who do we learn humility, mercy, compassion from

    Seems like Jesus is who we learn from. None other.

  211. street says:

    So then who do we learn humility, mercy, compassion from because it sure isn’t the example that was given us from mtman, who boasts of being the great accomplished manager of a blog site with so many visitors and a manager of a facebook national magazine page.

    he didn’t learn from you either. as for name calling, if the shoe fits? maybe a new pair would help. as for managing a website. i don’t think he was bragging, just saying he had to deal with trolls on a regular basis.

    poo you get my goat from time to time. i guess if you were not so self-centered and self righteous you could see this is a common problem on the net. i end this with a verse that comes to mind.

    29 “Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.

    30 “Whoever is not with me, Jesus, is against me, and whoever does not gather with me,Jesus, scatters. 31 And so I, Jesus, tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

    thinking about opinions ….maybe truth would be a better way forward. if we are going forward shouldn’t we be following?

    if our opinions and name calling were a litmus test we would be toast crumbs on the bottom of the toaster. grace a way forward.

  212. phpatato says:

    Thank you Mtman. Your advice is spot on and appreciated. I try hard to apply that same advice, which was given to me a long time ago by another friend on here. I most always just read here. I recognize that there is one here who is so adept at pushing buttons and who gets a total satisfaction out of doing so. It is a sick head game and is one I really do prefer not to get involved in. Like you said, I know that it will be me that will be dragged down to a lower level…every.single.time.

    Every time I get my button pushed, I regret commenting, even if it is an attempt to call her out on something that she should be held responsible for. I guess that is the army brat in me. My father served in the Canadian army for 26 years. He fought the Second and the Korean and it was him that taught me to stand up and fight and not be a mushy pushover. As a child, when we went on car trips, Onward Christian Soldiers was always one of the songs that we, as a family, would sing to help put the hours in the car behind us. Two of those car trips was logging up 4 days, one way, for a military posting from Ontario to Alberta, in a station wagon packed with 5 kids, a dog, a canary and houseplants. Suffice it to say that Onward Christian Soldiers was sung more than once. Over the years I have learned the importance of and I’m still learning to pick and choose my battles wisely.

    Responsibility and Accountability… Do these words even exist in today’s world. When is the proper time to stand up and speak out against. Or is there even such a time anymore.

    Complacency and Tolerance…..Are they the new buzz words to describe what Christians should be today. Because if you aren’t there are various labels that are quickly slapped across the foreheads of those who aren’t. Who will buckle and comply. Who are willing to stand up in spite of.

    We are living in dangerous times and it certainly isn’t for the faint of heart. And you can be sure of this…. those dangerous times have already breached the walls of the Christian community. This blog is proof of that.

    Thanks again for your fresh outlook. It is spot on from where I sit.

  213. Beloved says:

    Mtman looking forward to hearing more from you on here. Your wisdom is welcome.

  214. Beloved says:

    Pat I like your toughness!!! So unlike myself, but sorely needed here, thank you.

  215. Beloved says:

    Street i feel your pain XO

  216. Beloved says:

    I do agree the telling is in the fruit produced. That’s what scripture says. So I believe it. Be good to check what kind of fruit I’m producing. And make appropriate adjustments. Starts with Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit. The helper.

  217. Beloved says:

    Seems like if the majority were saying my fruit was poisonous, spoiled or rotten I’d take a good look at myself and ask Jesus to change me, instead of continuing to dishonor Him. But that’s just me.

  218. street says:

    i was thinking about mart saying how we read the Bible is the way we read ourselves or something like that. or the Bible reads us. thinking about getting the board out of our own eye and seeing clearly. how on earth did we get rid of such a blind spot??????? it goes on to say we would be able to take the speck out of someone else’s eye. i am not a doctor, but He did not mince words here. feels like the disciples when they could not cast out the demon in the small boy and asked why they were a failure? Jesus did respond to their question directly.

  219. foreverblessed says:

    This kind does not go out, but by prayer and fasting

  220. jeff1 says:

    When I Get to the End of the Way

    The sands have been washed in the footprints Of the stranger on Galilee’s shore,
    And the voice that subdued the rough billows,
    Will be heard in Judea no more.
    But the path of that lone Galilean,
    With joy I will follow today;
    And the toils of the road will seem nothing,
    When I get to the end of the way.
    There are so many hills to climb upward,
    I often am longing for rest,
    But He who appoints me my pathway
    Knows just what is needful and best.
    I know in His word He hath promised
    That my strength, “it shall be as my day”;
    And the toils of the road will seem nothing,
    When I get to the end of the way.
    He loves me too well to forsake me,
    Or give me a trial too much;
    All His people have been dearly purchased,
    And Satan can never claim such.
    By and by I shall see Him and praise Him,
    In the city of unending day;
    And the toils of the road will seem nothing,
    When I get to the end of the way.
    When the last, feeble step has been taken,
    And the gates of that city appear,
    And the beautiful songs of the angels
    Float out on my listening ear;
    When all that now seems so mysterious
    Will be bright and as clear as the day,
    Then the toils of the road will seem nothing,
    When I get to the end of the way.

  221. Beloved says:

    How to deal with cluelessness? How’s the weather out your way, it’s supposed to snow again tomorrow and when I will be driving to the eye doctor. But hey, driving gets easier and easier on snow covered roads the more often I do it! So thankful for a good battery!

  222. Beloved says:

    I do get from y’all that you think you do not mess up in anyway because you sure are quick to pick out my faults which is in essence saying that my faults and failures are worst than yours.

    Deb I think you are wrong in your assumption here. You wrongly judge others here who are nothing but kind, considerate, caring and good people to fellowship with. I wish you could consider you may be wrong. And that you have some things to learn about Christian fellowship. Now I know you will turn my thoughts back on me, that’s what you do, but could you for once humbly say thank you for the feedback and be still without lashing back? Perhaps God will show you, if you are willing to listen. It’s up to you. No one can make you do anything you don’t want to do, not even God Himself. This is offered in love.

  223. poohpity says:

    Joyce of course I am wrong and treat each of you nastily by calling you names and putting you down and trying to convince each of you how you should behave or act and how I want you to change. Yes that is exactly what I speak every time I write on here.

    Just one thought I know all you guys have spent years trying to convince me what a scoundrel and horrible person I am but look around yourselves at home. How many Christian friends are you fellowshipping with from your church communities if you even go, family, friends or neighbors and how do you enter act with them? Maybe it isn’t all about me, the blame can go to ways can’t it?

  224. poohpity says:

    It always seems easier to blame someone else for the ugliness that wells up from inside ourselves. Someone who brings out the bitterness, anger and rage that has been in you all along. Let’s see, 8 like minded people attacking two. May the odds be ever in your favor.

  225. Beloved says:

    Deb I never said you call people names but put downs, yes, every time you come back with, “gee” this or that it’s a put down in spirit, not Spirit. It’s arrogant rude and condescending. Not saying everyone else doesn’t have their moments but you are consistently condescending and never learning. Why do you always shift the problem back to “you guys”? A little humility and quietness alone with God, asking Him these hard questions might be good. He is good, always. Love,Joyce

  226. Beloved says:

    Stop analyzing the crowd and look to God. God is far wiser than all your humanistic training in human behavior. He doesn’t care one bit what you’ve learned from books. He cares about your soul. And cares with amazing grace, mercy and love. And wants YOU also to be graceful, merciful and loving as well. Sometimes shutting up is wiser than speaking. When we pray we are wise if we speak then listen quietly. Right? Takes your hurts to Jesus. Just my humble opinion. Love, Joyce

  227. poohpity says:

    The reason I shift things back to you guys or y’all is because that was exactly what Jesus did over and over again. (John 8:7; Matt 7:1-2; Romans 2:1) So that we take into consideration our own condition rather than looking at the condition of others then we are not so quick to judge one another and see that God has gifted us each with such an undeserved grace we actually have no room to talk about others.

  228. poohpity says:

    Joyce, your last comment just proved the point was I was making. You do what you want me to do and see if maybe your relationships work out better.

  229. Beloved says:

    Deb, this is a fellowship of believers, not Jesus and pharisees. You and I are NOT Jesus. Thank you for explaining though. Made any water into wine lately? Lol! You read the scriptures but do not apply them correctly. You seem to use them to defend your position. Dangerous because if your stance reading scripture is that “We” are against you from the get-go than we don’t stand a chance of receiving what good things God is teaching you. And how He is changing you. It doesn’t matter what I or anyone says, you can’t receive it. Fasting and prayer is the only way. Love, Joyce

  230. poohpity says:

    John 13:15 NLT

  231. Beloved says:

    Yes, LOVE!

  232. poohpity says:

    If I were you Joyce I would be concerned about your relationship with Christ not about how anyone else is relating to Him because that is between them and Him, that is to say if one trusts the Lord at all, in anyway. Can you receive that?

  233. poohpity says:

    I can say without a doubt I know the messes, faults, failures and shortcomings that make up my life so I have no room to talk about anyone else. I also know without a doubt how much I need Jesus to heal and restore me and I trust that He will continue His work in me until I leave this flesh.

  234. Beloved says:

    I know you know all these things, but what can YOU do to get along with people here?

  235. Beloved says:

    I don’t recall Paul Peter or Jesus ever saying it’s no one else’s business how we live out our faith. Our relationship with God being, strictly speaking no one else’s business, if thats what you’re saying.

    It does matter how we

  236. Beloved says:

    live love and encourage each other in love. Even hearing hard truths is important, or else we’d be islands in the stream of the Spiritual life where God resides with us. You, my dear, have built an island around you. Solitary confinement isn’t what God desires for us.

  237. street says:

    Looks Like Might Rain on Monday

    Friday is not looking so good, but

    Sunday looks Great!

    to get to Sunday you have to go through Friday.

    then again there’s a substitute.

  238. street says:

    Looks Like Might Rain on Monday

    thinking about Unity.

    Jesus is One with the Father His Whole Life and Death.
    He has returned to the Father in the perfection He had prior to coming to earth.

    our only way forward is Unity or Oneness in Christ our Redeemer. i think of the relationship of elisha and elijah. elijah learning to walk after elisha was taken from Him. we are definitely give many individuals within the church for the building up of the body. figuring this out on our own is not possible, therefor a Helper. walk by the light you have been given. alijah was not raised in the dark and neither are the children of God. Jesus the Light of the World.

  239. Beloved says:

    Dear deb, you bring up my difficulty with groups and fellowshiping again so I just want to clarify. Actually, there are very few people who dislike me. It’s my PTSD and programming from childhood that tells me ALL people are dangerous and want to abuse me. Feeling love is very very hard for me. Christ’s love I can feel though! Without Him I would dry up and blow away.

    Look up Complex PTSD symptoms and they describe me to a T. I know you are a learning nerd so hope this helps your understanding. Love, Joyce

  240. Beloved says:

    I Corinthians 1:26-31

  241. poohpity says:

    Joyce regarding your 1:16 pm comment I think Paul did talk about minding our own business in 1 Thess 4:9-11 NLT was to busy yesterday to reply. I do not know if I applied that right or not? That is not the only place, there are more, but it is better when you find them yourself. Spending a little time with God in His word is always beneficial. Love Deb

    But we don’t need to write to you about the importance of loving each other, for God himself has taught you to love one another. 10 Indeed, you already show your love for all the believers throughout Macedonia. Even so, dear brothers and sisters, we urge you to love them even more.

    11 Make it your goal to live a quiet life, minding your own business and working with your hands, just as we instructed you before.

  242. poohpity says:

    Then if I am not mistaken which is highly possible Jesus also taught it is not our job to separate the wheat(those with faith) from the tares(those without faith) because we actually may not know what is really in a person’s heart. Those things are better entrusted to God not us.

  243. Beloved says:

    My Utmost has lots to say about that today. Thank you for your kind responses. Blessings, Joyce

  244. Beloved says:

    Joyce regarding your 1:16 pm comment I think Paul did talk about minding our own business in 1 Thess 4:9-11

    This is written in the context of sexual sins. Mind your own business, your own spouse.

  245. Beloved says:

    Agree! Spending time in the Word is highly beneficial!

  246. poohpity says:

    Doesn’t verse 9 start a new paragraph and then the word, “NOW” mean moving on? He reminded the readers that he has spoken of this in the past about gossip, busybodies, false rumors, slander having no place within the body of Christ. Isn’t reading the whole letter keeping it in context?

    It seems the reason for writing the letter in the first place was to clear up confusion about the second coming and for instructions about Christian living. Minding one’s own business is an instruction about Christian living within the community of believers, it is in more letters than just this one.

  247. street says:

    9-10 Regarding life together and getting along with each other, you don’t need me to tell you what to do. You’re God-taught in these matters. Just love one another! You’re already good at it; your friends all over the province of Macedonia are the evidence. Keep it up; get better and better at it.

    11-12 Stay calm; mind your own business; do your own job. You’ve heard all this from us before, but a reminder never hurts. We want you living in a way that will command the respect of outsiders, not lying around sponging off your friends.

  248. street says:

    12 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

    15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

    19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

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