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Implications

Milkweed

Sometimes, and maybe always, the Scriptures make sense only if we read between the lines.

For instance, what’s the point of Israel—if God doesn’t choose everyone?

Why would Jesus’ answer about the greatest of all commandments be so good and wise— if (behind the scenes of our collective wrongs and chaos) God didn’t love us with all of his heart, mind, and strength?

Why would anyone love God without the Spirit-given intuitive conviction that he loves us?

And when it comes to the following ancient song, why would the author write,

“From the depths of despair, O Lord,

I call for your help.

Hear my cry, O Lord.

Pay attention to my prayer.

Lord, if you kept a record of our sins,

who, O Lord, could ever survive?

But you offer forgiveness,

that we might learn to fear you.

I am counting on the Lord;

yes, I am counting on him.

I have put my hope in his word.

I long for the Lord

more than sentries long for the dawn,

yes, more than sentries long for the dawn.

O Israel, hope in the Lord;

for with the Lord there is unfailing love.

His redemption overflows.

He himself will redeem Israel

from every kind of sin.” (Psalm 130:4)

Why…unless…


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103 Responses to “Implications”

  1. poohpity says:

    There is nothing more reassuring than to finally come to realize that God loves and forgives us. It seems if we live off of the praise of human beings then we will wilt, be crushed and our inner man will die under their criticism. You are fully known by God, all of you and if He loves you knowing everything about you who needs anyone else to make you feel accepted and wanted. The chains fall off and living in freedom begins.

    Tim Keller writes, ““To be loved but not known is comforting but superficial. To be known and not loved is our greatest fear. But to be fully known and truly loved is, well, a lot like being loved by God. It is what we need more than anything. It liberates us from pretense, humbles us out of our self-righteousness, and fortifies us for any difficulty life can throw at us.”

  2. jeff1 says:

    Only God knows what I need or that is what I have come to believe and so only God can satisfy that need.

    My Jesus knows when I am Lonely
    He knows each pain, He sees each care
    He understands each lonely heartache
    He understands because He cares

    My Jesus knows just what I need
    Oh yes! He knows just what I need
    He satisfies and every need supplies
    Yes, He knows just what I need

    My Jesus knows just what I need
    Oh yes! He knows just what I need
    He satisfies and every need supplies
    Yes, He knows just what I need

  3. SFDBWV says:

    Earlier this morning (5:30am) I replied to the new subject and quickly found I couldn’t post. After spending too much time trying to first find a way to post and then recover my comments I gave in and walked away.

    This little comment is actually a small test to see if my problem is fixed or remains.

    Steve

  4. SFDBWV says:

    I will always say that reading between the lines is dangerous. Because what is imagined comes from within you, and no one can be sure if that “voice” is yours or Gods.

    I will say that this subject is challenging and I would love to see Mart interact more with some of the commentary.

    Will add at this time that being “chosen” doesn’t instantly mean that the road will be easy, in fact I almost guaranty it will be anything but.

    Until tomorrow.

    Steve

  5. Beloved says:

    Mart you make me think of the difference between “hard copy” and essence. Two completely different things yet without one the other is not completely understood and often misunderstood. Oh the Bible is so wonderful, I just love mine!

  6. poohpity says:

    Mart gave examples of what he meant by reading between the lines and I think we need to consider how he used that statement because it will help us understand that no matter what is written if we believe that God has our best in mind it makes it easier to understand not only God but what God did and does for the people He loves beyond life itself in the past, present and future.

    Sadly there are many who do not believe that God is good and has the best interest of mankind in mind by what He has done and is still doing.

  7. mtman says:

    I too am opposed to reading between the lines. To do so enables us to imagine or speculate and fill in our own blanks that have been age old mysteries.

    I find it very ironic that the photo of milkweed was used since it is the primary source of food for monarch butterflies. Heavy use of herbicides has destroyed the milkweed and hence added to the decline of the monarch butterfly. In my opinion they are the epitome of mystery. They are the only butterfly that migrates. They go into the cocoon as a worm and come out a butterfly.

    The mystery of that process is that when they go into the cocoon stage they emit an enzyme that dissolves them into liquid. The liquid then reforms perfectly into a butterfly and the real mystery is how that actually happens.

    When they emerge they are a beautiful butterfly and the process of emerging from the cocoon gives their wings strength to later fly. Biologists have many theories or ‘read between the lines’ about how this process happens but they do not know for sure and factually have no idea.

    It is the same with reading between the lines of the bible or anything else for that matter – all the reader has is conjecture and speculation.

    Being an old criminal investigator I believe only in facts and to hypothesize is dangerous in my opinion. To do so can adversely impact innocent third parties and take people down the wrong road.

    Maybe Mart is trying to show how really dangerous conjecture actually is when reading between the lines. I hope so anyway.

  8. Mart DeHaan says:

    I’m hoping we can allow ourselves— and encourage one another—to use imagination between, within, and in light of what the lines and words of Scripture could possibly mean— to be true to the kind of God who reveals his glory in the patient, merciful and compassionate love of self-sacrifice.

  9. mtman says:

    Thanks Mart for your explanation. Sorry I have to disagree. Your explanation sounds is articulate but I still consider it dangerous theology. I stand by my comment.

  10. poohpity says:

    Didn’t the Pharisee’s read between the lines to think God was more concerned with following rules than about the people coming to Him and caring for the good of others? But then Jesus came and revealed the true heart of God for mankind.

    For instance Mark 3: Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”

    4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

    5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.

  11. jeff1 says:

    Sounds wrong to me as most read the Bible for encouragement and rebuke.

    A person has to find God’s truths for him/herself and I do not like the idea of introducing ones imagination to impact that thinking process.

    I’m with Steve and mtman and consider it very dangerous territory.

    Quite surprised that Mart would contemplate going there.

  12. Beloved says:

    Imagining how God wants me to live out the faith in the here and now- everyday life. I believe scripture gives guidelines but how I manage to show others what God is like is up to my personal interpretation and application of the Word in the world. Good theology can only be done if Christ lives in us. Ghandi was a good man, but not Godly.

  13. poohpity says:

    Mart went there in the last topic and the one before too get us to think what it would be like seeing the actions of Jesus without words to explain. Do we really understand the fullness of God’s goodness towards humanity?

    If you carefully read the questions Mart asked then you will understand were he is going with this topic nothing irreverent since most people assume things about God anyway and most often without considering His goodness, mercy and love for us. People assume about God everyday in more ways than you think, so they read between the lines and most often in a negative way.

    They ask questions like if God is so good why does He let bad things happen? That is just one example.

  14. street says:

    2
    And you will swear, ‘As the Lord lives,’
    In truth, in justice and in righteousness;
    Then the nations will bless themselves in Him,
    And in Him they will glory.”

    3 For thus says the Lord to the men of Judah and to Jerusalem,

    “[a]Break up your fallow ground,
    And do not sow among thorns.
    4
    “Circumcise yourselves to the Lord
    And remove the foreskins of your heart,
    Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem,
    Or else My wrath will go forth like fire
    And burn with none to quench it,
    Because of the evil of your deeds.”

  15. street says:

    Why…unless…

    it is finished.

    given a ministry of reconciliation

    seeing how there is already division?

    lets press on.

    plenty of space between the lines.

    19
    “They confronted me in the day of my calamity,
    But the Lord was my support.
    20
    “He also brought me forth into a broad place;
    He rescued me, because He delighted in me.
    21
    “The Lord has rewarded me according to my righteousness;
    According to the cleanness of my hands He has recompensed me.

  16. street says:

    to be true to the kind of God who reveals his glory in the patient, merciful and compassionate love of self-sacrifice.

    a love of self-sacrifice

    love of a parent

    love of a spouse

    love of a child

    a love of self-sacrifice a love for nothing…..to love for no gain…….i struggle with the idea that human love can compare or is compared to God’s Love.

    yet in Christ this can happen.

    sin ends love, yet God put an end to sin.

    the same yesterday today and tomorrow.

  17. street says:

    I will always say that reading between the lines is dangerous. Because what is imagined comes from within you, and no one can be sure if that “voice” is yours or Gods.

    Why would anyone love God without the “Spirit-given” intuitive conviction that he loves us?

  18. SFDBWV says:

    Yesterday afternoon I met with FEMA representatives for what I believe is the 5th or 6th time since the July 1 event which dropped 5 inches of rain on us in 4 hours. Causing problems that need money to fix.

    FEMA has the say as to whether or not we get assistance or not.

    I told the representative yesterday that I am becoming frustrated with all the additional information that each time I provide they want more and that site investigations are clear to the most untrained of observers.

    Yet here we are still meeting and still answering questions.

    The whole process leaves open to the imagination as to what is either missing or simply unbelieved.

    The representatives explain that they just want to make sure there are no unseen developments that may cause problems down the road.

    However I want to trust or believe them, my imagination can produce a great many other reasons for their slow process in wrapping up the paper work and getting some of these issues taken care of.

    The fact is winter will very soon be upon us and the ability to get construction issues completed will become impossible to accomplish.

    History has produced a skewed view of everything and man’s imagination the breeding ground of a plethora of conspiracy theories.

    Conspiracy theories themselves create entire followers who become fixated on their belief.

    With apologies to you street not every thought that generates from even the most devout of us comes from the Holy Spirit. No matter how much we would want them to.

    I am very pleased Mart to see you in the conversation. I will fully agree that the act of Jesus’ self-sacrifice on the cross demonstrates the base nature of God. And that in reading some verses of Scripture we need to remember that when perhaps we are unsure of what we read.

    Yet in this never satisfied hunger to know everything there remains questions that fly in the face of logic as well as the clarity of what is written.

    God’s purposes continue to remain a mystery and I suppose if we didn’t come away from studying His Word with any other conclusion it would have to be that God sacrificed Himself in the Person of Jesus of Nazareth so that every person who calls upon His name is saved from eternal destruction.

    That doesn’t come from my imagination, but rather from what is written.

    What my imagination can produce is that every person even the most evil and vile will be miraculously changed from their lost nature to the nature of God and be saved from destruction, reconciled and returned to God and that all people everywhere will exist in eternal harmony with God forever.

    Then again that may not be so much as my imagination and more so of my desire and prayers.

    Steve

  19. Mart DeHaan says:

    mtman, this is good. Help me think through this. I know I’m missing a lot. What does a good criminal investigator, scientist, doctor, theologian, student of Scripture etc. do with the facts?

  20. Mart DeHaan says:

    Love your explanation of milkweed.

  21. bubbles says:

    Proverbs 3:5 says “…and lean not on your own understanding.”

    Respectfully submitted and love to all here. Have a good day.

  22. SFDBWV says:

    When I was a boy, my friends and I would walk up the railroad track to our favorite swimming hole along the North Branch of the Potomac River.

    Depending on what time of summer it was there were always something that caught either our appetite or interest as we walked along the tracks.

    We would pick strawberries, service berries, raspberries, or blackberries along the way and always stop and investigate the milkweed that grew everywhere.

    I have often wondered if the milkweed and poppies are related as the milkweed also has a thick sticky white sap similar to what the poppy has.

    The railroad company has ended such a nature walk ever since they began spraying poison along the trackway to discourage and kill off any plant growth.

    And yes I see less and less of everyone’s favorite the Monarch Butterfly.

    I too love the story of the Monarch as it takes 3 generations for it to complete its migration from Mexico to Canada and back.

    Facts (truth) is always better than fiction.

    Steve

  23. mtman says:

    Mart: We piece the facts or known and definitive truths together to arrive at a conclusion. How often do we see investigators today get lazy and fill in the blanks with conjecture or assumption and the person ends up in jail because the investigator read between the lines.

    When I was a young my mentor taught me to use 3 X 5 cards and to put only facts on each and lay them on a table and assemble them to see if they all fit the crime. If not they would lead me to areas lacking that still needed to be investigated. When finished I would have a complete factual picture of what happened and who did it.

    This was long before DNA and all the scientific techniques available today. The end result was a fact based conclusion absent conjecture.

  24. jeff1 says:

    poohpity says:
    October 23, 2019 at 8:29 pm

    If you carefully read the questions Mart asked then you will understand were he is going with this topic nothing irreverent since most people assume things about God anyway and most often without considering His goodness, mercy and love for us. People assume about God everyday in more ways than you think, so they read between the lines and most often in a negative way.

    I have done so, myself, but while continuing to seek God’s truth He has since revealed truths to me so that I have grown since.

    Remember, I pray, confess, listen and praise God as well so His revelations are for me and not necessarily for another’s purpose.

    If others, assume, God will put them right in His time. It is not in my opinion for me to presume what another’s relationship with God is like or how God will work in them to bring about His will in their life.

    It is dangerous to do do so as it is a fine line to playing God to my way of thinking.

  25. mtman says:

    Thanks Mart for liking the milk weed explanation. There are mysteries that go back to original recorded time and while they may peak our interest or imagination they continue to remain unresolved.

    The monarch butterfly is one of them in my opinion. The caterpillar even though a caterpillar has all the ingredients in its body of a butterfly. Wings, legs, internal organs etc. When it is in the cocoon it emits an enzyme that breaks all its bodily components down to liquid. The liquid then reforms into a totally different creature. That is a mystery that has baffled scientists for generations.

    No amount of reading between the lines or conjecture can explain exactly how that happens each time. When I received Jesus into my life I know I was changed, I could immediately tell but exactly how he did it I don’t know. I know the Holy Spirit was involved but I don’t know specifically how it was done. I just know I enjoy the results and like the Monarch butterfly we don’t need to understand the specific process but cherish and enjoy the result. God knew when I surrendered to Him it was sincere and that was in me all along but I resisted. I can now look back and see how He has worked in my life and if I put all those facts on 3 X 5 cards it gives me a clear picture of my relationship with the Lord. It is humbling to say the least and my only regret is that I waited so long to surrender myself. When I surrendered myself I gained my new wings that day and have flown free ever since. Conjecture or reading between the lines would have led me down the wrong path without doubt but it is only when I look back I see clearly. I hope this amplifies my post so it makes sense.

  26. poohpity says:

    mtman, you may read again about the stages that turn the caterpillar into a butterfly. No where does it say it turns to liquid but it does say the skin splits open in the chrysalis phase. Facts! I imagine that scientists have cut open or dissected the chrysalis as they have witnessed the 4 different phases of the metamorphosis. BUT no turning to liquid then into a butterfly it’s primary parts are still within after the skin splits.

  27. bratimus says:

    Not a big fan of reading between the lines, in God’s word or in life. One man’s reading between the lines is another man’s confusion. Not everyone will understand, there won’t be a clear sense of the meaning.

    I’m not saying on a personal level with God through the Holy Spirit, that a meaning of something will be come more clear for an individual. Somethings are not meant to be shared with the crowd. After all Jesus has a billion ways to reach a person, to get them on the path back to God through Him, through Christ. Hope that made sense.

    Reading the Bible and the walk with Christ Jesus back to God, is based on faith, and that is the best thing you can read between the lines.

    In Christ Jesus

    Bratimus

    P.S. Love the 3×5 cards old school, I use to have a bunch with verses of the Bible on them. Have a few little fade now lol

  28. Beloved says:

    Just read this on scientificamerica.com,
    EVOLUTION
    How Does a Caterpillar Turn into a Butterfly? More detail than what I’d learned in grammar school.

  29. poohpity says:

    If when one reads the facts we are given in the bible often if one only reads in part and not the whole reading between the lines becomes like reading the beginning of a novel, part of the middle and then maybe the end people will come up with all kinds of odd things of God.

    In the time when Jesus walked this earth the Pharisees took out the parts they wanted to Lord over people and to LOOK righteousness but their hearts were far from God. It was told all throughout the OT of the coming of the Messiah but when He stood right in front of them they did not have a clue even though they should have known. Most teachers say interpret scripture with scripture because sometimes it is like a puzzle to them without divine help. An example;

    Luke 24 Then Jesus asked the two disciples, “Why can’t you understand? How can you be so slow to believe all that the prophets said? 26 Didn’t you know that the Messiah would have to suffer before he was given his glory?” 27 Jesus then explained everything written about himself in the Scriptures, beginning with the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets.

  30. Beloved says:

    Thinking of “blind spots”, which we all have. Whether organic or spiritual God is still LORD over all things. We see and understand what we are given to see and understand. Just as the formation of a butterfly or even a baby is “hidden” in a safe protective environment (though not always..) to come to full formation as planned by God from the very beginning so we as “new creations“ in Christ are ever learning and growing. Thankful for the scientist, theologian and crime fighters who’s specialties reveal truths that help us to understand life better. I see God in and through all; between the lines, if you will. Ever watching working loving and patient with His creation. It is good, He said. Yes, it is very very good.

  31. poohpity says:

    Christopher, did you understand at the time what all those scriptures they had you memorize were and their implications? Or was it just a peek of something that the longer you remained in His word you came to fully appreciate with a better understanding?

  32. poohpity says:

    It took me a long while to understand the implications of what happened on the Cross and I fully do not embrace it still or I would live my life differently and show more forgiveness and grace. I would not allow the things of this world to hold me captive to stinking thinking when I have been given a freedom from such things but because it seems so hard for me to grasp the fullness of what really took place those three days I still allow the thinking of the flesh to infringe on my joy and peace.

  33. poohpity says:

    In today’s ODB there are major implications that we may still not grasp.

  34. poohpity says:

    What are the implications of the reason that God saved you?

  35. Beloved says:

    For instance, what’s the point of Israel—if God doesn’t choose everyone?

    Yesterday we read this and was so excited; Genesis 12:1-3 as God says that ALL people will be blessed through Abraham! ALL people, even Ishmael’s descendants.

  36. street says:

    With apologies to you street not every thought that generates from even the most devout of us comes from the Holy Spirit. No matter how much we would want them to.

    Genesis 4:7
    If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

    seems to me i answered the door too many times.
    yet the cross says not so.
    the only way to master it is to be dead to it.
    Jesus says, “come to Me.”

    paul understood our hearts are seated with Christ in heaven, Ephesians. yet our minds are still here on earth. david says Thou anoints my head with oil, thinking the oil is the Word of God or the Facts/Truth.

    entertaining deceit and falsehood make for disaster. deceit and falsehood grab a foothold because of coveting.

    God so loved…..He gave. Spirit and Truth

    Thou anoints my head with oil
    Thou leads me beside still waters
    Thou makes me lay down in green pastures.
    Thou restore/redeems my soul

    God saved the saints and continues to save us by faith.
    a faith in His eternal love/goodness. patients/perseverance/long-suffering is a sign of His Salvation. thinking of job, coming to God.

    thinking of job daniel noah isaiah jerimiah finding themselves in Gods presents. where is God? where are His miracles of old? dangerous talk? or talk of hope?

  37. phpatato says:

    “”The reason even a child can love Jesus as much if not more than a group of scholars who disagree about what he or the Bible says and means, is that even a child can trust the heart of Someone who…””

    Taken from Mart’s last topic.

    “”Sometimes, and maybe always, the Scriptures make sense only if we read between the lines.””

    Mart’s opening sentence of this topic.

    I’m a bit confused. Are we to live with a child-like faith, trusting in God to provide us with everything we need to understand, make sense of, and so to live, while we embark upon our individual journey/path/walk with Him? Or are we to put our child-like faith on the back burner every time we open our Bibles so we can jump in, dissect and read between the lines to in the end imagine what it is He is saying? Is this a situation of possessing a child-like faith AND thinking like a scholar with a skill to read between the lines to get any sort of Biblical understanding? Seems to me that these are opposites. I haven’t come across very many (if any) children who, when reading a book, reads between the lines in order to understand what the author is saying.

    I’m not against Bible study at all. But to sit with It open and question what it might be saying….nah, I will trust the Holy Spirit’s work in my life to teach me what He wants me to know. Sometimes I am a quick learner, many times He has to be very patient with me. I am grateful, He never gives up on me.

    I have to agree with Steve, Mtman and some others….reading between the lines is walking the slippery slope. But then I have always tried to Keep it Simple-stupid and have only read between the lines if I am trying to see about myself, what others see and may be too afraid to tell me.

    Pat

  38. mtman says:

    Within its protective casing, the caterpillar radically transforms its body, eventually emerging as a butterfly or moth. … First, the caterpillar digests itself, releasing enzymes to dissolve all of its tissues. If you were to cut open a cocoon or chrysalis at just the right time, caterpillar soup would ooze out.

  39. Beloved says:

    Pat are you talking about application?

  40. bratimus says:

    The verse on the 3×5 cards were verse that I wrote on them, not to memorize. Verse I like or stuck out here and there.

    What I wrote about reading between the lines, was more not even trying to read between the lines, but through the Holy Spirit, a between the lines comes to you without looking for it.

    In Christ Jesus name

    Bratimus

  41. poohpity says:

    lol believe what you want Bruce. But do not go to any site that explains how it happens to find out the facts about the exoskeleton and the metamorphosis of what is beneath that exoskeleton. When has ooze ever made anything but ooze, that is just common sense.

  42. mtman says:

    That is a copy off a page that tells of the change Pooh. I did extensive research on the monarch butterfly and you simply say that research is not true but I doubt you have done any research. I had to post references to support the facts.
    I’ll not argue with you here and some things don’t change – You just sit back without facts and snipe at people who do have the facts. That is my last word to you.

  43. Beloved says:

    Solomon’s last word

    To Everything There Is a Season
    1To everything there is a season,
    and a time for every purpose under heaven:
    2a time to be born and a time to die,
    a time to plant and a time to uproot,
    3a time to kill and a time to heal,
    a time to break down and a time to build,
    4a time to weep and a time to laugh,
    a time to mourn and a time to dance,
    5a time to cast away stones and a time to gather stones together,
    a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
    6a time to search and a time to count as lost,
    a time to keep and a time to discard,
    7a time to tear and a time to mend,
    a time to be silent and a time to speak,
    8a time to love and a time to hate,
    a time for war and a time for peace.

    God’s Works Remain Forever
    9What does the worker gain from his toil? 10I have seen the burden that God has laid on men to occupy them. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.

    12I know that there is nothing better for men than to rejoice and do good while they live, 13and also that every man should eat and drink and find satisfaction in all his labor—this is the gift of God. 14I know that everything God does will remain forever; nothing can be added to it or taken from it. God does it so that men should revere Him. 15What exists has already been, and what will be has already been, for God will call to account what has passed.

  44. poohpity says:

    “Known” “Implications”

    It’s so unusual it’s frightening
    You see right through the mess inside me
    And you call me out to pull me in
    You tell me I can start again
    And I don’t need to keep on hiding
    I’m fully known and loved by You

    You won’t let go no matter what I do
    And it’s not one or the other
    It’s hard truth and ridiculous grace
    To be known fully known and loved by You
    I’m fully known and loved by You

    It’s so like You to keep pursuing
    It’s so like me to go astray, ooh
    But You guard my heart with Your truth
    The kind of love that’s bullet proof
    And I surrender to Your kindness, oh

    I’m fully known and loved by You
    You won’t let go no matter what I do
    And it’s not one or the other
    It’s hard truth and ridiculous grace
    To be known fully known and loved by You
    I’m fully known and loved by You

    How real, how wide
    How rich, how high is Your heart
    I cannot find the reasons why
    You give me so much
    How real, how wide
    How rich, how high is Your heart
    Now, I cannot find the reasons why
    You give me so much

    I’m fully known (fully known) and loved by You
    You won’t let go (no you won’t let go) no matter what I do
    And it’s not one or the other
    It’s hard truth and ridiculous grace
    To be known fully known and loved by You
    I’m fully known and loved by You

    It’s so unusual it’s frightening
    I’m fully known and loved by You

    How hard is this to accept and what are the implications of being loved this much?

  45. Beloved says:

    No one ever cared for me like Jesus

    Chorus
    No one ever cared for me like Jesus;
    There’s no other friend so kind as He.
    No one else could take the sin and darkness from me;
    O how much He cared for me.

    I would love to tell you what I think of Jesus,
    Since I found in Him a friend so strong and true.
    I would tell you how He changed my life completely;
    He did something no other friend could do.

    Chorus
    No one ever cared for me like Jesus;
    There’s no other friend so kind as He.
    No one else could take the sin and darkness from me;
    O how much He cared for me.

    All my life was full of sin when Jesus found me;
    All my heart was full of misery and woe,
    Jesus placed His strong arms about me
    And He led me in the way I ought to go.

    Chorus
    No one ever cared for me like Jesus;
    There’s no other friend so kind as He.
    No one else could take the sin and darkness from me;
    O how much He cared for me.

    Ev’ry day He comes to me with new assurance;
    More and more I understand His word of love.
    But I’ll never know just why He came to save me,
    Till someday I see His blessed face above.

    Chorus
    No one ever cared for me like Jesus;
    There’s no other friend so kind as He.
    No one else could take the sin and darkness from me;
    O how much He cared for me

  46. street says:

    What does a good criminal investigator, scientist, doctor, theologian, student of Scripture etc. do with the facts?

    thinking of the babylonians coming over the wall in 586bc.
    what would you do with those facts. seems like surrender would be a good idea. God told jerimiah that his life would be his prize/gift for his faithfulness even though the trauma of it all would be terrifying. God is right, the hard work has been done earlier. may we be found faithful.

  47. Beloved says:

    Life is such a precious gift!

  48. Beloved says:

    And too short to worry about what others think of me:-)

  49. Beloved says:

    Implications

    Our root is Christ Jesus, and our life is hid in him; this is the secret of the Lord. The radix of the Christian life is as secret as the life itself. How permanently active is the sap in the cedar! In the Christian the divine life is always full of energy—not always in fruit-bearing, but in inward operations.

    The believer’s graces are not every one of them in constant motion, but his life never ceases to palpitate within. He is not always working for God, but his heart is always living upon him. As the sap manifests itself in producing the foliage and fruit of the tree, so with a truly healthy Christian, his grace is externally manifested in his walk and conversation.

    If you talk with him, he cannot help speaking about Jesus. If you notice his actions you will see that he has been with Jesus. He has so much sap within, that it must fill his conduct and conversation with life.

    Spurgeon

  50. jeff1 says:

    Known only to him are the great hidden secrets
    I’ll fear not the darkness when my flame shall dim
    I know not what the future holds
    But I know who holds the future
    It’s a secret known only to Him

    In this world of fear and doubt
    On my knees I ask the question
    Why a lonely, heavy cross I must bear
    Then he tells me in my prayer
    It’s because I am trustworthy
    He gives me strength far more than my share

    Known only to him are the great hidden secrets
    I’ll fear not the darkness when my flame shall dim
    I know not what the future holds
    But I know who holds the future
    It’s a secret known only to him

  51. Beloved says:

    He gives me strength far more than my share

    Viv I love this line!

  52. bubbles says:

    Mtnman, monarch butterflies are beautiful and I enjoyed your post about them. I wonder if God designed their metamorphosis to teach us about our own selves and even their struggle to get out of the cocoon and how struggle makes us strong. Thank you

  53. street says:

    Sometimes, and maybe always, the Scriptures make sense only if we read between the lines.

    does the world see grace and mercy in the blood and gore of the Old Testament?

    isn’t Jesus the same as the LORD of the Old Testament?

    we sometimes forget the worst and the best is to come.

    seems to me God is very serious about sin and about redemption.

  54. jeff1 says:

    Beloved, I love this line of the song because it brings tears to my eyes as I am bewildered to think how it applies to me:

    It’s because I am trustworthy

  55. foreverblessed says:

    Thank you Mart, for stretching us even further out.
    I believe all sides have been pointed out, what can I add?
    That without the chinging of our fallen nature, we can read between the lines of the bible what we want, that is our old inclinations.

    But that has been said.
    That without the Holy Spirit where are we?

    God came with the miracle of Light, shining in our hearts.
    Tthe veil has been lifted, the veil that covered wheb the scriptures were read.

    It is quite safe to say that we still have some veil here and there when we read the bible.
    God’s proces of sanctification is long.

    And in that fact, we can assume there are still areas where we look at schripture, and we are veiled.

    But that reading between the lines:
    That God is always love
    ( God is )Love is patient, (God) is love is kind. (God does) It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    Exodus 20:5
    for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God…

    In that Light we have to read this line just above, that God says that He is a jealous God.

    Dissecting the bible is one thing, looking for comfort when being at the wits end of ones life, that is totally different.

    It is written that blessed are the poor in spirit, that means the ones who have found out that they cannot live their lives on their own,
    the ones who have cired out to Jesus to save them.

    It does not mean the ones who are poor in finding out facts, and making assumptions about theological matters, about scientific matters.

  56. foreverblessed says:

    thank you Mtman for bringing up that caterpillar.
    I looked up the article in Scientific American, by Ferris Jabr august 10, 2012

    Indeed, a soup! Wow
    But “certain highly organised groups of cells known as imaginal discs survive the digestive process”

    In wikipedia you can read about these imaginal discs, they make the limbs and eyes. There is also a drawing of how they look like.
    They have put these discs in other pupa’s and the discs grow into a limb or eye.

    You can also read that a Dutch guy, Jan Swammerdam first found them. He lived 1637-1680.
    it is fascinating to read about Jan Swammerdam, he was a scientist and a devout believer.
    But about making assumptions, o dear.
    It is so good to read what assumptions had been made 400 years ago.

    About the priciples of the law of God, that said at that time: they would apply to all creation. So they thought that the Beehive had a King.
    O dear, that was not true, Jan found out it was a Queen!
    there you go, you have to re-aline your thought sequence, to adjust to that new-found fact.
    He did a drawing of the inner parts of the Queen, he had looked through a microscope, the drawing is on wikipedia.

    Another assumption was, (almost all the scientists were christians at that time) that insects were not God’s original creation, that they appeared later.
    Jan Swammerdam did not agree with that viewpoint.

    Imagine living a few hundred years ago, about what things we would have argued!

    Then I do thinks that what Mart writes:
    Reading between the lines that God is always Love
    -Godly love that is, not our human fallen love-
    is always there.

  57. Mart DeHaan says:

    Am still thinking about the ways imagination is or is not used by a skillful criminal investigator, defense attorney, or prosecutor— to connect the dots of facts that can be interpreted in so many different ways– in pursuit– or avoidance of the truth.

    I used to doubt the wisdom of those who encouraged me to use my imagination when reading Scripture– until concluding it’s impossible not to…

    My guess is that at times we all have wondered what a text of Scripture means— what has been left unsaid.

    Maybe for example, what did Paul mean when he wrote “to the pure all things are pure”? (Titus 1:15)

  58. SFDBWV says:

    I have always believed that faith/trust is something to be earned, not automatically insisted. Yet here we have a religion that insists we have that faith and trust in spite of the evidence sometimes to the contrary.

    For as many people as I have heard defend the Scriptures I have also heard as many pick it apart for its conflicting statements and yes confusing statements as well.

    So it comes down to what do we want to believe, what do we want to have occur? For without faith and trust there is no hope.

    The belief that a man, Jesus of Nazareth died and then returned to life demonstrates that when all hope of living was lost He overcame death and now offers us hope.

    If I must be forced to “read between the lines” the only thing I can imagine that could be inserted there is that one word *hope*.

    You see Mart I don’t have a problem with Paul’s statement, as I have known people who always look for the best of people and not the worst.

    It is one of those things there to remind me I am not pure and will forever need Christ. Not that I look for impurities in others I just recognize them when they appear.

    31 with peeks of the moon through a light fog high above us. Better then Mtman who is dealing with some significant snow there up in the Rockies.

    Steve

  59. Beloved says:

    Romans 14:23
    23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

    This is a cross reference for Titus 1:15. Just as I had suspected a few days ago it’s faith that fills in the blanks between the lines. Our faith in Gods ability to save and keep us, in Jesus—as you said Steve.

    Oh Mart that’s awesome.

  60. Beloved says:

    Although I may be misinterpreting. I do that.

  61. poohpity says:

    bubbles a long time ago you taught me the word “juxtaposition” which seems to be similar to your comment about the caterpillar feeding on the milkweed to go through it’s metamorphosis, we must feed on God’s word to go through ours. When one is familiar with scripture as Mart is then one will be able to see the many time it may be needed to read between the lines but without that familiarity one may not understand the implications of the direction of this topic.

    Think of the implications of what Jesus said in John 10;

    “Yes, I am the gate. Those who come in through me will be saved. They will come and go freely and will find good pastures. 10 The thief’s purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life.” If one read between the lines we would see that a life with Jesus at the center would be rich and satisfying.

    or “16 I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.” If one reads between the lines we may see that Jesus was speaking of the gentiles too.

  62. poohpity says:

    To do research and put pieces together as a detective does isn’t it reading between the lines that draws out what several witnesses say about the same occurrence but their stories vary so the detective has to put together the pieces to have real in-sight as to what really happened?

  63. poohpity says:

    How about the three years Paul had after conversation if we gather the facts and read between the lines we may come away with putting these facts together;

    1. Paul was a Pharisee so he knew the OT
    2. It took time for him to put together all that he was taught to see it pointed to Jesus.
    3. Time also to understand what Jesus meant that Paul was actually persecuting Him by killing and jailing His followers.

    There was a lot that went on between the words that we have written in the bible. Like who was the audience that the epistles were written to? What was their culture like at the time? Like John said, “Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” What are the implications of that statement? We could read between the lines and what happened in each life that Jesus touched would be a story in and of itself.

  64. Beloved says:

    When I was a Guardian ad Litem my job was to interview all people involved with the child, compile a report of “facts” as told to me along with observations and recommendations based on my interviews. Obviously lawyers in the case had differing viewpoints of the situation as well as social services but in the end it was up to the judge to decide according to law. Interestingly the child advocate held a lot of power to sway the judge one way or another; kind of like Jesus does with the Father, yet not like Him at all who died for our sins. Reading between the lines of a court document is not to be done apart from the law and mistakes are made, yet the Holy Spirit as someone mentioned makes the correct “decision” always in Holy scripture. God knows all the facts yet pronounces us who are in Christ Jesus NOT guilty, even though in fact we are guilty as hell. And bound for that destination apart from Christ.

    Just thinking how easy it can be to read between the lines of scripture and come to a conclusion about God and ourselves; based on whether we see Him as an angry harsh controlling Judge or a loving, merciful and forgiving Papa. Daddy with the GOOD lap.

    As Forever says its best to ask and seek God for help to understand what God is saying- what He means.

    This has been very interesting to think about.

  65. Beloved says:

    poohpity says:
    October 25, 2019 at 7:27 am

    Adding to what you said; Unfortunately by putting their own ( law enforcement) biases and prejudices first many have been sentenced and even killed for crimes they did not commit. Facts changed or ignored and untruths added make for an unjust pronouncement of guilt.

  66. poohpity says:

    Beloved, When it comes to human beings many can come to wrong conclusions because of their own prejudices and biases.

  67. SFDBWV says:

    It has been a very rough morning. The realities of life certainly sap away intellectual thought or at least highlight the struggles above everything else.

    When we read or think about Scripture, it is often when we are in a certain frame of mind.

    The very Psalm Mart quotes is a prayer David gave when in despair.

    How many times have any of us cried out in the torment of our own despair, only to simply have to deal with it?

    In this subjects opening comments Mart asks “What’s the point of Israel-if God doesn’t choose everyone?” I am reminded how tied to the Torah or OT we remain.

    Nearly all of the conversation and story of the OT is between God concerning Israel(not all as Jonah comes to mind). Jesus Himself told the Disciples to go first to the house of Israel with the Gospel.

    Look now at how all throughout the OT Israel is replaced with everyone by we Christians in thought, study and probably in prayer by most of us.

    The Psalm Mart offers us is an example of what I am saying.

    To replace David with any one of us is a deviation from its original writing. Is that reading between the lines or is it “revelation knowledge” given via the Holy Spirit?

    Where do the similarities begin and where do they stop?

    In the Book of Revelation there are only 144,000 people saved from the 12 tribes of Israel. As of this writing I cannot see where anyone other than these 144,000 people are anyone other than Israelites.

    Like I said this subject is a challenge.

    Is the answer found in the NT alone? Or does it need conformation from the OT?

    Steve

  68. Beloved says:

    Steve “covenants” comes to mind but not able to explain any further right now. Sorry for your bad day. Lifting you all in prayer right now.

  69. Beloved says:

    Pooh, that’s why we need to fix our eyes on Jesus and let His mind guide us. It’s the only way Truth will be found. Takes patience though. I am a very impatient person, strong willed and prideful but He is up for the task of change!

  70. poohpity says:

    If we look to the OT as the means that pointed to the coming of the Messiah we understand the character of God a little better. So that when left to read between the lines we at least can determine if it is based on the character of God or our own thoughts and imaginations.

  71. mtman says:

    Bubbles: You have I believe uncovered one of the raw truths of what God wants us to know. The butterfly and its life cycle enforces our trust in God. It takes one creature and turns it into a totally different creature. When I stop to think of it I’m left in total awe and know when my time runs out here on earth there is another life waiting for me in heaven. Jesus said so and the only way I can believe that is trust in who he is and what he promised to do. The struggles in life do make us stronger. Steve has it right – faith/trust.

    Foreverblessed: To me the butterfly is such a good example of what God wants us to see to be reassured of who he is. Living at 9,800′ elevation in the mountains with my closest neighbor 1 mile away we see much of God’s creation. As I look upon the things he created I am left in awe. Most people aren’t surrounded by as much of his creation as I am. As I experience his creation up close there is nothing but pure admiration for our Lord.

    They say that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger except bears – bears kill you. That is totally in error in my opinion. I have been nose to nose with bears, rubbed a wild buck deer’s nose, had mountain lions just a few feet away snarl and hiss at me and yet here I am after 23+ years. Not a scratch. I have found bears, mountain lions, deer and elk are better neighbors than most people. I respect them, don’t challenge or interfere with their life and they in turn totally respect me. I’m not foolish around them but respectful.

    Steve, we received 20″ of snow (our first this winter) and more coming in two days. I’m just a hiccup from 80 y/o and it just takes me longer to clear it. What I used to do in a day now takes 2-3 days. What doesn’t kill you does make you stronger but working smarter counts for something too.

    Mart: Your analysis about what a detective does is not accurate. We do collect facts and assemble those facts. We do not read between the lines or guess. I cringe each time I see a person sent to prison on a circumstantial case. That is a miscarriage of justice. It is done by attorneys and detectives that assume something but lack the facts to prove it. I am 100% confident that those I sent to jail or prison were guilty. When the facts are all in I would go over the facts with the suspect and 99.9% of the time they would confess. That is the way facts are suppose to work and guess work or conjecture has no room in criminal justice in my opinion. Just like reading between the lines has no place in the bible in my opinion. It can easily divert a person/s down the wrong path. I would urge people not to speculate, guess or read between the lines. I think it is dangerous and Satan rejoices when he sees it happen and encourages people to continue because it takes them further from God instead of closer.

  72. Beloved says:

    The more I read scripture I find deeper meanings than the first or second time I’ve read. Ever have a scripture suddenly jump off a page, grab you and teach you something you’ve never seen before? I have. Only the Holy Spirit can teach like that. Not Satan. To be open to what God wants me to know today I must be open to all the diverse ways God uses to get my attention. But that’s just me.

  73. Beloved says:

    My current copy of the Holy Bible is only a few years old, however the Holy Spirit has been seeking, teaching and revealing God for thousands of years, at least. I won’t limit my search of knowing Him better only to what my eyes can see on paper. God gave us a brain to meditate with as well. ObjectIve and subjective can meet together as they did on Sinai long ago to bring people to where God wants them to be, knowing trusting learning and doing His will.

  74. poohpity says:

    It does not surprise me that many people have better relationships with animals than they do with people after all people challenge us in many ways in thought, ideas and imagination while animals just believe everything you say with no push back.

    I really enjoy reading the bible like a detective or scientist or theologian searching for truths through the facts we are given and after we learn one thing more is revealed as Beloved was saying. It is like putting a puzzle together from the OT searching for the revelations of Jesus from the very first book in the bible Genesis through Malachi. As Jesus said, “From the books of Moses and the prophets they all pointed to me(Jesus).” Then Jesus also said, “I came to reveal the Father.” Matt 11:27

    There are many places in the bible that leads us to search other scriptures so we understand better, that may be one of the many reasons they put cross references in our bibles to help us. Those who have gone before us have made it a little easier. Then those who have given us Chronological reading guides are also a big benefit and very eye opening to experience the time lines.

  75. poohpity says:

    God gives us faith as a gift and we learn to trust Him through that faith.

    “He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples, 25 and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need.”

    Jeremiah 29:13 The problem being that not many truly seek God with all their hearts. He seems excited to reveal Himself to those who delight in Him.

  76. jeff1 says:

    Fear not, little flock, from the cross to the throne,
    From death into life He went for His own;
    All power in earth, all power above,
    Is given to Him for the flock of His love.

    Refrain:
    Only believe, only believe;
    All things are possible, only believe;
    Only believe, only believe;
    All things are possible, only believe.

    Fear not, little flock, He goeth ahead,
    Your Shepherd selecteth the path you must tread;
    The waters of Marah He’ll sweeten for thee,
    He drank all the bitter in Gethsemane.

    Fear not, little flock, whatever your lot,
    He enters all rooms, “the doors being shut,”
    He never forsakes; He never is gone,
    So count on His presence in darkness and dawn.

  77. poohpity says:

    Mart gave us Psalm 130:4. If one does not read between the lines why would we fear someone who forgives us? Is it because God is bigger and mightier than anything we could do? Nothing we can do will surprise Him when He knows all about us, is that something to fear?

  78. poohpity says:

    In my reading everyday there seems to be many times that I read between the lines for instance.

    Why would God? As Paul taught,
    “lay aside his mighty power and glory, taking the disguise of a slave and becoming like men. 8 And he humbled himself even further, going so far as actually to die a criminal’s death on a cross.” Knowing that I will still sin THEN shouldn’t that effect how I live my life and effect how I treat others? There is a lot to think about between the lines. What are the implications for me?

  79. jeff1 says:

    O Lord enthroned in endless power!
    You speak – it comes to be.
    Your sovereign will, Your boundless love
    Engulf eternity.

    My life, so proud, so frail and small,
    Is but a passing breath.
    My selfish dreams, my anxious days
    Are all a lingering death.

    Almighty Lord, You come, You speak.
    I turn, and You are here.
    I see You now for all You are.
    Great God, I bow in fear!

    But Lord, Your face is life and peace,
    So fear’s response is love.
    You enter now my conquered heart –
    A light, a breath, a dove.

    I fear You, Lord, but nothing else.
    What freedom in the truth!
    We walk in love’s response to love,
    And all is joy in You!

  80. poohpity says:

    After Psalm 130:4 with a little detective work we come across something in the NT like Luke 12:

    Meanwhile, the crowds grew until thousands were milling about and stepping on each other. Jesus turned first to his disciples and warned them, “Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees—their hypocrisy. 2 The time is coming when everything that is covered up will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all. 3 Whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be shouted from the housetops for all to hear!

    4 “Dear friends, don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot do any more to you after that. 5 But I’ll tell you whom to fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then throw you into hell. Yes, he’s the one to fear.

  81. poohpity says:

    Or in your reading you come across another of Jesus’s stories would you have to read between the lines and determine the implications of Luke 13:

    Then Jesus told this story: “A man planted a fig tree in his garden and came again and again to see if there was any fruit on it, but he was always disappointed. 7 Finally, he said to his gardener, ‘I’ve waited three years, and there hasn’t been a single fig! Cut it down. It’s just taking up space in the garden.’

    8 “The gardener answered, ‘Sir, give it one more chance. Leave it another year, and I’ll give it special attention and plenty of fertilizer. 9 If we get figs next year, fine. If not, then you can cut it down.’”

  82. poohpity says:

    It would seem another way of understanding what Mart was saying about “reading between the lines” are what are the implications of what I am reading. As he ended this topic with “Why…unless…”!

  83. Beloved says:

    The whole point of “Implications” is that when you open the Holy Scriptures are you seeking knowledge, wisdom, understanding alone OR are you seeking God Himself? Who is the Author of what we read? Are the scriptures merely an intellectual exercise or do we hear and see the very breath of God Himself.

    Come thou fount of every blessing, draw me ever nearer to thee.

  84. street says:

    reading between the lines.
    the whole earth is filled with His Glory!

    reading between the lines only gets me too the third person account of things. third person is hearsay not an accurate or reliable witness.

    you will be My witness.

    blessed are those who believe and have not seen.
    John 20:29

  85. Beloved says:

    For we walk by faith, not by sight.

  86. Beloved says:

    For instance, what’s the point of Israel—if God doesn’t choose everyone?

    Yeah, what’s the point? I think the point of God choosing Hebrew slaves instead of a rich influential person/culture was to make His point, that through this culture of nobody’s God would send a Savior (a nobody, illegitimately born even—even at odds with his own people!!) to show the world that redemption came through humility grace and mercy. That’s how He rolls! Not by might not by power but by His Spirit alone. We are all indebted to God. What a God we serve.

    This I got from my readings and meditations this afternoon. Good stuff.

    So choosing has its purpose as did Israel. I am chosen because I said YES! Are all asked at some point in their lives to choose? I believe so. I’m not chosen to do what Moses, Aaron, Gideon Mary Paul and Peter to name a few were asked to do. But I can be loving joyful peaceful patient kind merciful etc etc because I said yes to the call He sends to all His sheep/ creation. I believe God is good; all the time.

  87. jeff1 says:

    Christ the Father’s Word is spoken.
    Know the great Creator’s heart!
    See His wonders, taste His graces:
    Life and light and holy art,

    Refrain
    Love beyond what words can tell –
    God made flesh, Immanuel!

    Christ the warrior, mighty victor,
    Comes to crush the serpent’s head;
    Christ the rainbow, Christ the promise,
    Christ the true, eternal bread,

    Christ the Son so long awaited,
    Blessed seed of Abraham,
    Christ the wealth of wisdom’s treasure,
    Christ the priest and Christ the lamb,

    Hear His voice, and see His glory,
    Trust His strong and holy hand.
    God Himself now tents among us
    As we near the promised land.

  88. poohpity says:

    Yes God gave the promise to Abraham that through his family line the whole world would be blessed. Abraham had Isaac, Isaac had Jacob later to be called Israel after he wrestled with God even before the State of or land of Israel was named. Reading between the lines, God had a plan from the beginning from whom our Savior would be born. Reading between the lines, we learn that God knows us and who it is that will believe in Him before we are even born because He can see the future.

    Implications of that is we are fully known by God and He did not change His plan to have a relationship with us and that should touch the heart of anyone. That the love of God for you was well in it’s advanced planning stage from the foundation of the world. If that is what He was thinking about from the beginning wouldn’t that lead anyone to believe they are special to God. Reading between the lines would lead us to ____________.

    Reading between the lines is not about our interpretation of scripture but to learn the Heart of God for mankind. There are times some of scripture is hard to hear what happened in days of old but if we have read between the lines then we know that God had a good reason for all that He did, does and will do.

  89. poohpity says:

    When you hear someone say, “If you were the only person alive on the face of the earth Jesus would have still went through all that He did for you.”. That is reading between the lines by someone who realizes the implications of what Jesus did and is learning about the heart of the Father.

  90. poohpity says:

    I just found out this weekend after doing a DNA test that I am 26% European Jewish. It said that my relatives migrated from Israel to Poland or Germany. I wonder if my mom had any idea of that before she named me Deborah. It also said that 31% England, Wales & Northwestern Europe
    28% Ireland & Scotland 5% Norway. Wow it is amazing to see where our ancestors are from.

  91. poohpity says:

    I was just thinking doesn’t Jesus ask us to read between the lines many times when He shares a parable like for instance; Luke 14:34-35 NLT ““Salt is good for seasoning. But if it loses its flavor, how do you make it salty again? 35 Flavorless salt is good neither for the soil nor for the manure pile. It is thrown away. *Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!*”?

  92. Beloved says:

    Isn’t that fascinating news Pooh. My maternal grandmother looked like and was hated by her mother-in-law for being a “Jew”. Yet my dad was Irish and Cherokee. Though the children of Abraham wandered were dispersed inter married and nearly annihilated Gods promise to him to be the father of many rings true in our dna. True that God is faithful then and always! Who knows, maybe we are even related? As with everyone else here?

  93. jeff1 says:

    “Where No One Stands Alone”

    Once I stood in the night
    With my head bowed low
    In the darkness as black as could be
    And my heart felt alone and I cried oh Lord
    Don’t hide your face from me

    Like a king I may live in a palace so tall
    With great riches to call my own
    But I don’t know a thing
    In this whole wide world
    That’s worse than being alone
    Hold my hand all the way, every hour every day
    From here to the great unknown

    Take my hand, let me stand
    Where no one stands alone

    Take my hand, let me stand
    Where no one stands alone

  94. jeff1 says:

    poohpity says:
    October 27, 2019 at 7:18 am

    Reading between the lines is not about our interpretation of scripture but to learn the Heart of God for mankind. There are times some of scripture is hard to hear what happened in days of old but if we have read between the lines then we know that God had a good reason for all that He did, does and will do.

    I have never doubted that God has good reasons but in a world where evil still has a hold I am not going to play God by reading between the lines.

    If I have learned any lessons in life it is that there are matters that are best left in God’s hands.

    God choose Israel and He has His reasons and I am trusting Him in that.

    What I know, I know, but I have no intentions of making up the rest to satisfy my desire to understand what God is doing in the world.

  95. poohpity says:

    Do you not think there is a different way to understand what Mart was asking besides the slant that has been put on it so far. Think of it this way when Jesus was talking to the crowds He stated several times, “He who has ears, let him hear.” That was after Jesus shared a parable like sowing seed he was not talking about really sowing seeds but was stretching people to think outside the box or reading between the lines to mean not about ground but the heart of people and how they receive the word of God.

    It is not about playing God at all but understanding Him. Not about making stuff up or different interpretations but getting to know the character of God.

    The problem being this is not directed at you Viv, but if one does not even read the scripture then one can not see the many times that God/Jesus directed us to actually read between the lines and think about God beyond what people had thought He was like and do not see the actuality of Him until Jesus revealed His true heart.

  96. poohpity says:

    For reference read Luke 15 and the parables Jesus told there which seem to be like asking them to read between the lines along with the implications of each parable.

  97. poohpity says:

    Don’t people play God when they judge the heart of someone else? Or when they give people advise without knowing their whole situation? Don’t they play God when they think they have to do everything themselves and never ask for help because they think they are all sufficient in and of themselves? Or play God when they can not learn from others by thinking they know it all? Or thinking I am going to do things my way?

  98. jeff1 says:

    People have and always will interpret God’s word differently and I expect that is why God choose Israel because He knew this would happen.

    We all have ears but we hear different things and that is because our beliefs get in the way of God’s truths.

    I have not come to know God through scripture but through experience of life and my dad’s example to me.

    If I trust God’s character it is because that is how He has revealed Himself to me.

    It is in knowing this that I believe He will reveal Himself to others but it is the how and the when that is in God’s hands.

    As for what other people do I will not speculate as God knows I have messed up enough times to not think I know another’s heart or offer advice.

    It is one of the greatest lessons I have learned in life is that God does know best because I have little understanding of people or their reasons for why or what they do.

    Maybe it has been reading between the lines that has led them to believe that God wanted them to judge the heart of another or give advice on His behalf.

    That is not for me to know but to trust God does.

  99. poohpity says:

    I do not think that is what Jesus had in mind when He said, “He who has ears, let him hear.”. Jesus explains in Matt 13:

    His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?”

    11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables,

    For they look, but they don’t really see.
    They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.

  100. poohpity says:

    We can not understand God through anyone else but only through God revealing Himself to those who want to know Him otherwise we are allowing for human reasoning which is what has gotten us into trouble from the beginning.

  101. poohpity says:

    Or if we are not aware of God’s character when the deceivers comes and he will, then we will be lead astray by all kinds of strange teaching and vain philosophies.

    As Paul taught in Col 2:

    I want them to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand God’s mysterious plan, which is Christ himself. 3 In him lie hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

    4 I am telling you this so no one will deceive you with well-crafted arguments. 5 For though I am far away from you, my heart is with you. And I rejoice that you are living as you should and that your faith in Christ is strong……….

    And now, just as you accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord, you must continue to follow him. 7 Let your roots grow down into him, and let your lives be built on him. Then your faith will grow strong in the truth you were taught, and you will overflow with thankfulness.

    8 Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ. 9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

  102. poohpity says:

    Doesn’t reading that take some reading between the lines because unless you know that Paul went away for three years to do just that, learn from Jesus, not muddied by the other disciples even though they were with Jesus for years but from Christ Himself. Isn’t that who all of us should learn from Christ Himself through the Holy Spirit? He is our good teacher and guide.

  103. jeff1 says:

    It is in my quiet time with Jesus that I learn or that is what I believe and I cannot speak for anyone else.

    I may get distracted by the world but God is always present and patient in drawing me back to Himself.

    I learn to trust Him because He has that affect on me and I find peace and comfort for my troubled mind.

    My need for Him is so much greater so it is not about what I learn but knowing He is present is enough.

    If God is with me who is against me!

    Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine
    O what a foretaste of glory divine
    Heir of salvation, purchase of God
    Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood

    This is my story, this is my song
    Praising my Savior all the day long
    This is my story, this is my song
    Praising my Savior all the day long

    Perfect submission, all is at rest
    I in my Savior am happy and blessed
    Watching and waiting, looking above
    Filled with His goodness, lost in His love

    This is my story, this is my song
    Praising my Savior all the day long
    This is my story, this is my song
    Praising my Savior all the day long

    This is my story, this is my song
    Praising my Savior all the day long
    This is my story, this is my song
    Praising my Savior all the day long

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